In need of a raise
November 29, 2007 9:26 AM Subscribe
It has become apparent that a friend is extremely past due for a raise. Given the circumstances, what is the best method of approach?
A friend's colleague has been promoted into an equivalent position of said friend, but given significantly more money. Said friend also has subordinates with higher salaries. This person has been with the company longer than these colleagues, has more experience, and is continually praised as an excellent employee (and given excellent reviews).
This person works in a field that traditionally pays poorly, and is staffed by those who consider their jobs a higher calling for the benefit of mankind. The company is rather large, with hundreds of employees and multiple locations throughout the area.
A friend's colleague has been promoted into an equivalent position of said friend, but given significantly more money. Said friend also has subordinates with higher salaries. This person has been with the company longer than these colleagues, has more experience, and is continually praised as an excellent employee (and given excellent reviews).
This person works in a field that traditionally pays poorly, and is staffed by those who consider their jobs a higher calling for the benefit of mankind. The company is rather large, with hundreds of employees and multiple locations throughout the area.
As much as we'd like to believe we ought to automatically be rewarded for our hard labour, more often than not, many companies won't go out of their way to give someone more money. Especially somewhere that has employees who "consider their jobs a higher calling for the benefit of mankind." Simply waiting for a raise to appear unbidden means your friend is probably going to keep waiting.
If your friend feels that a raise is genuinely overdue, they might want to compile a list of their accomplishments, the value they provide to the company, instances of excellence, etc. They'll then want to schedule a meeting with their boss regarding compensation (it's probably better to schedule a meeting, as this can grant an extra air of seriousness and formality). There are copious amount of resources and advice for raise negotiation around the Internet, but Monster.com might be a good place to start.
posted by Nelsormensch at 9:55 AM on November 29, 2007
If your friend feels that a raise is genuinely overdue, they might want to compile a list of their accomplishments, the value they provide to the company, instances of excellence, etc. They'll then want to schedule a meeting with their boss regarding compensation (it's probably better to schedule a meeting, as this can grant an extra air of seriousness and formality). There are copious amount of resources and advice for raise negotiation around the Internet, but Monster.com might be a good place to start.
posted by Nelsormensch at 9:55 AM on November 29, 2007
Do you/he/she have an annual performance review? That is a good place to have the discussion. So is sometime not too long prior to whenever they revise the annual budget (if that's how they do it there). Knowing something about the organization's current financial status could help. The HR person (if there is one) might have tips and could do some internal advocacy with the big boss. (The HR person would also be concerned about unfair pay, like subordinates getting paid more, whereas the boss may not care about those issues.)
Mentally discard that stuff about "consider their jobs a higher calling for the benefit of mankind." Ideally everyone does their job because it contributes to the world in ways they want to contribute. (Doctors save people's lives for god's sakes, what higher calling could you find than that, and they don't pay their bills with moral satisfaction either.) However, if you/he/she needs to talk that way to stay within the organizational culture, one thing to do is to talk about how much the money is needed. "It is difficult for me to continue living off this salary. My graduated student loan payments are increasing / my children are starting school / I am looking ahead to starting a family / my passion for collecting art is what motivates me to live. I love this job but cannot afford to keep doing it at this rate." Balance that with some examples of your value to the organization. I'd ignore all this inside knowledge and instead just shoot for a much higher salary than all those people based on the position and the person's longevity at the place.
Alternatively, go out and get another job offer and ask them to match it.
posted by salvia at 10:01 AM on November 29, 2007
Mentally discard that stuff about "consider their jobs a higher calling for the benefit of mankind." Ideally everyone does their job because it contributes to the world in ways they want to contribute. (Doctors save people's lives for god's sakes, what higher calling could you find than that, and they don't pay their bills with moral satisfaction either.) However, if you/he/she needs to talk that way to stay within the organizational culture, one thing to do is to talk about how much the money is needed. "It is difficult for me to continue living off this salary. My graduated student loan payments are increasing / my children are starting school / I am looking ahead to starting a family / my passion for collecting art is what motivates me to live. I love this job but cannot afford to keep doing it at this rate." Balance that with some examples of your value to the organization. I'd ignore all this inside knowledge and instead just shoot for a much higher salary than all those people based on the position and the person's longevity at the place.
Alternatively, go out and get another job offer and ask them to match it.
posted by salvia at 10:01 AM on November 29, 2007
Here's the thing about raises, it's way way better to negotiate before accepting the responsibility than it is after. If you ask for a raise and are turned down, you must force your will on your manager to articulate what steps you need to take to get a raise. These should be captured in your yearly performance review/etc.
If you get the requirements for a raise articulated, you hit those goals and you still don't get a raise it's time to find another employer.
Look out for number 1 here, a job isn't a place where you go hang out during the day, you should treat it as a business relationship with the company, if a company isn't going to take care of you when you've performed it's not a place to consider staying with. It's FAR easier to negotiate for a higher salary when you look for a new job and if you keep the old one while you look you are the one holding the chips and the decision making process.
posted by iamabot at 10:02 AM on November 29, 2007 [1 favorite]
If you get the requirements for a raise articulated, you hit those goals and you still don't get a raise it's time to find another employer.
Look out for number 1 here, a job isn't a place where you go hang out during the day, you should treat it as a business relationship with the company, if a company isn't going to take care of you when you've performed it's not a place to consider staying with. It's FAR easier to negotiate for a higher salary when you look for a new job and if you keep the old one while you look you are the one holding the chips and the decision making process.
posted by iamabot at 10:02 AM on November 29, 2007 [1 favorite]
It's not clear from your question whether you are asking this at your friend's request.
If your friend is asking through you whether they should ask for a raise, the answer is yes. The Raise Fairy is unlikely to visit your friend without them having to say or do anything.
As others have said, your friend should come to this conversation prepared with accomplishments, as well as any information about comparable positions. There are lots of previous AskMes about asking for a raise.
If, on the other hand, you're asking whether there's anything you can do to help your self-effacing and under-appreciated friend (aside from encouraging them to ask for a raise), the answer is no.
posted by ottereroticist at 10:13 AM on November 29, 2007
If your friend is asking through you whether they should ask for a raise, the answer is yes. The Raise Fairy is unlikely to visit your friend without them having to say or do anything.
As others have said, your friend should come to this conversation prepared with accomplishments, as well as any information about comparable positions. There are lots of previous AskMes about asking for a raise.
If, on the other hand, you're asking whether there's anything you can do to help your self-effacing and under-appreciated friend (aside from encouraging them to ask for a raise), the answer is no.
posted by ottereroticist at 10:13 AM on November 29, 2007
What's also not clear from the question is whether the raise is "deserved" based on performance merit, or simply "other people are making more, that's not fair."
Most companies don't just give raises because it's fun, or because they've got nothing better to do with the cash. If your friend's company -- actually, I'm just going to pretend it's you because it's easier than referring to a nameless third party -- doesn't have a commitment to fair and equal compensation, then they don't. If there are not pay grades, with documented hard-and-fast levels of seniority, accreditation, training, experience, whatever... then there are not.
(Now, if you are at the company with the structured pay grade system, and if you have achieved the next level, you just need to go talk to HR. They simply might not be aware that it's time to give you more money.)
And, the company might have a policy at the executive level that only in extenuating circumstances can managers give raises outside the annual-performance-review time; it's not to be mean, it's to regulate cashflow and HR resources effectively. That's the first fact that needs to be accepted when one is pondering how to ask for more money: the company can't become something it's not.
The second fact that needs to be accepted is that, technically, the company doesn't owe you more money. That you have seniority... that subordinates make more... that your co-worker is now making more than you... these things don't mean that you are de facto entitled to a raise. They simply mean that other people did a better job at negotiating their compensation package.
There are lots of wiggle areas when you go to talk salary: higher degrees; what retirement and insurance benefits you accept or decline; agreeing to work more than other people in some way (being on call on holidays, accepting fewer vacation days, agreeing to give "free overtime," etc); people who agree to take on extra work for other departments; people who will make an X-year verbal commitment to the organization; etc. There are loads of factors in negotiating compensation -- it's rarely as cut-and-dried as, "Those who have Title A should make Amount $B." You can't possibly know what went on in those other conversations.
The third fact that needs to be accepted is that the strongest negotiating position when one wants something from one's employer is being prepared to quit. It sucks, but as OmieWise has already noted, it's difficult to negotiate when you can't be the one who lays the wood. Otherwise, the conversation usually goes like this:
Tomorama: Hi, Boss. Thanks for taking the time to meet with me today. I deserve a raise and here's why [yadda].
Boss: Hi, Tomorama. Thanks for coming in. Here's why we won't be giving it to you [yadda]. Be sure to close the door on your way out.
(And, depending on one's train of thought re negotiation strategy and game theory, some would even argue that by asking and not receiving, you've weakened your position at performance review time)
The fourth fact that needs to be considered is that, in many companies, at least in the U.S. (don't know where you are), discussing compensation with other employees is considered actionable. If your company has a policies handbook that you signed or were given, I bet you a dollar that it makes a statement about discussing your salary with other employees. So, if your only motivator here is the fact that other people make more than you, you're in a very weak position indeed... because you can't go in to your boss and say "Janeorama is making my salary + X, Daveorama is making my salary + Y, and Billorama is making 2x my salary... and he reports to me!!!!" At least, not unless you want to eat lunch alone for the rest of your career at the company.
Besides which, the boss' response can simply be, "I'm not at liberty to breach confidentiality and discuss other employees' compensation, but rest assured that there are details to which you aren't privy, and that everyone is of course compensated fairly based on their contributions. Be sure to close the door on your way out."
So, as long as you have considered these things: 1. Some companies just aren't able or don't care to give raises at will. 2. Your company doesn't owe you anything. 3. If you can't walk in and threaten to quit, you come weak to the table. 4. If all you have arming you is the knowledge that other people making more money, you come even weaker to the table...
...and you still think it's a good idea to ask for a raise, then go for it. Put a list of accomplishments together, and set the meeting.
But, depending on when your annual review would be anyway, it might be far, far better to sit on this knowledge of the other people's salaries, and take a long-game approach -- by starting a subtle campaign now in order to receive a more significant merit raise when you'd already be due for one.
Especially if your motivation is not "a significant change in your workload resulting in performance above and beyond your job description," but simply because "it's not fair."
posted by pineapple at 10:52 AM on November 29, 2007 [2 favorites]
Most companies don't just give raises because it's fun, or because they've got nothing better to do with the cash. If your friend's company -- actually, I'm just going to pretend it's you because it's easier than referring to a nameless third party -- doesn't have a commitment to fair and equal compensation, then they don't. If there are not pay grades, with documented hard-and-fast levels of seniority, accreditation, training, experience, whatever... then there are not.
(Now, if you are at the company with the structured pay grade system, and if you have achieved the next level, you just need to go talk to HR. They simply might not be aware that it's time to give you more money.)
And, the company might have a policy at the executive level that only in extenuating circumstances can managers give raises outside the annual-performance-review time; it's not to be mean, it's to regulate cashflow and HR resources effectively. That's the first fact that needs to be accepted when one is pondering how to ask for more money: the company can't become something it's not.
The second fact that needs to be accepted is that, technically, the company doesn't owe you more money. That you have seniority... that subordinates make more... that your co-worker is now making more than you... these things don't mean that you are de facto entitled to a raise. They simply mean that other people did a better job at negotiating their compensation package.
There are lots of wiggle areas when you go to talk salary: higher degrees; what retirement and insurance benefits you accept or decline; agreeing to work more than other people in some way (being on call on holidays, accepting fewer vacation days, agreeing to give "free overtime," etc); people who agree to take on extra work for other departments; people who will make an X-year verbal commitment to the organization; etc. There are loads of factors in negotiating compensation -- it's rarely as cut-and-dried as, "Those who have Title A should make Amount $B." You can't possibly know what went on in those other conversations.
The third fact that needs to be accepted is that the strongest negotiating position when one wants something from one's employer is being prepared to quit. It sucks, but as OmieWise has already noted, it's difficult to negotiate when you can't be the one who lays the wood. Otherwise, the conversation usually goes like this:
Tomorama: Hi, Boss. Thanks for taking the time to meet with me today. I deserve a raise and here's why [yadda].
Boss: Hi, Tomorama. Thanks for coming in. Here's why we won't be giving it to you [yadda]. Be sure to close the door on your way out.
(And, depending on one's train of thought re negotiation strategy and game theory, some would even argue that by asking and not receiving, you've weakened your position at performance review time)
The fourth fact that needs to be considered is that, in many companies, at least in the U.S. (don't know where you are), discussing compensation with other employees is considered actionable. If your company has a policies handbook that you signed or were given, I bet you a dollar that it makes a statement about discussing your salary with other employees. So, if your only motivator here is the fact that other people make more than you, you're in a very weak position indeed... because you can't go in to your boss and say "Janeorama is making my salary + X, Daveorama is making my salary + Y, and Billorama is making 2x my salary... and he reports to me!!!!" At least, not unless you want to eat lunch alone for the rest of your career at the company.
Besides which, the boss' response can simply be, "I'm not at liberty to breach confidentiality and discuss other employees' compensation, but rest assured that there are details to which you aren't privy, and that everyone is of course compensated fairly based on their contributions. Be sure to close the door on your way out."
So, as long as you have considered these things: 1. Some companies just aren't able or don't care to give raises at will. 2. Your company doesn't owe you anything. 3. If you can't walk in and threaten to quit, you come weak to the table. 4. If all you have arming you is the knowledge that other people making more money, you come even weaker to the table...
...and you still think it's a good idea to ask for a raise, then go for it. Put a list of accomplishments together, and set the meeting.
But, depending on when your annual review would be anyway, it might be far, far better to sit on this knowledge of the other people's salaries, and take a long-game approach -- by starting a subtle campaign now in order to receive a more significant merit raise when you'd already be due for one.
Especially if your motivation is not "a significant change in your workload resulting in performance above and beyond your job description," but simply because "it's not fair."
posted by pineapple at 10:52 AM on November 29, 2007 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: pineapple: in response to "What's also not clear from the question is whether the raise is "deserved" based on performance merit, or simply "other people are making more, that's not fair."
This person has been with the company longer than these colleagues, has more experience, and is continually praised as an excellent employee (and given excellent reviews).
This person honestly believes they have excelled in their position, and therefore the raise is well deserved based on the work done and praise received.
Thanks for your extensive response. I think it will be very helpful.
posted by tomorama at 12:00 PM on November 29, 2007
This person has been with the company longer than these colleagues, has more experience, and is continually praised as an excellent employee (and given excellent reviews).
This person honestly believes they have excelled in their position, and therefore the raise is well deserved based on the work done and praise received.
Thanks for your extensive response. I think it will be very helpful.
posted by tomorama at 12:00 PM on November 29, 2007
If your friend is getting excellent job performance reviews, it probably means he is often doing work that is not specifically listed in the job description. That's not uncommon at all. He should make a list of this extra work, go to the boss, and make an offer to do these tasks in exchange for a higher salary. I did this recently and it helps ease the minds of the bosses when they feel they are getting something in return for the extra money. Sure, you were doing the work anyway, but now its officially your responsibility, and don't underestimate the value that carries.
If the boss balks and says, "But you already do those tasks!," then just go into your prepared remarks about how you did so in the best interests of the company even when it meant extra work, late nights, tighter deadlines, more stress, etc. Then just remark that you can't continue with that arrangement if the company doesn't value your contributions enough in those areas to offer a suitable compensation.
Oh, and like everyone else said, be prepared to walk.
posted by wabashbdw at 12:05 PM on November 29, 2007
If the boss balks and says, "But you already do those tasks!," then just go into your prepared remarks about how you did so in the best interests of the company even when it meant extra work, late nights, tighter deadlines, more stress, etc. Then just remark that you can't continue with that arrangement if the company doesn't value your contributions enough in those areas to offer a suitable compensation.
Oh, and like everyone else said, be prepared to walk.
posted by wabashbdw at 12:05 PM on November 29, 2007
I think one of the most common reasons why one person makes more than another is because they ask for more.
It has worked for me. I've made more than a colleague with a year of experience- because I asked for more (and I got more benefits, too).
posted by Monday at 12:57 PM on November 29, 2007
It has worked for me. I've made more than a colleague with a year of experience- because I asked for more (and I got more benefits, too).
posted by Monday at 12:57 PM on November 29, 2007
There are industry salary stats for most positions in most industries. There's recent research that suggests that one reason women make less is that they don't ask for more. In any case, she or he should first have a stern chat with herself about deserving more money, then assemble research, demonstrate value to the company, achievement, etc., and ask for a big raise.
Big plus: asking for more money makes people respect you more, at least in my part of the US. Another big plus: even if you give it to charity, making more money is nice.
posted by theora55 at 4:18 PM on November 29, 2007
Big plus: asking for more money makes people respect you more, at least in my part of the US. Another big plus: even if you give it to charity, making more money is nice.
posted by theora55 at 4:18 PM on November 29, 2007
Do those with higher salaries have any additional certifications, education, or so on? Sometimes that can cause a difference in pay. Another approach might be for your friend to take a class or certification and then approach for a raise b\c of that.
posted by ejaned8 at 7:36 PM on November 29, 2007
posted by ejaned8 at 7:36 PM on November 29, 2007
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by dead_ at 9:46 AM on November 29, 2007 [3 favorites]