Immigrant parenting discipline
January 27, 2025 9:42 AM Subscribe
We are first gen immigrants from an Asian country, though we’ve been in the US a while. I think we may be overcompensating when it comes to discipline with our child. This is partly due to fear that our child will resent us later or be scarred by our actions. How do you strike a balance?
Through college and work, I’ve met several 2nd gen adults, and heard about their less than stellar relationships with their parents due to culture clash and strictness. Many seem emotionally traumatized.
We have a five year old daughter. She’s a nice kid but needs discipline. We have been very lax on that partly because I don’t want her to suffer childhood trauma like the people I’ve met. However, I realize the lack of discipline at home is hurting her since she’s started getting into trouble at school. And I know she’s going to need us to enforce boundaries for at least another 13 years, so I need to come to terms with my anxiety.
I’m up to date on all the modern parenting books and techniques, and we are not going to discipline in an old school Asian way, but I can’t help but feel like anything we do will cause trauma because she’s going to eventually realize we are coming from a different culture than hers (especially because her classmates are from fully American backgrounds).
Are you an immigrant parent who has wondered the same? Or a 2nd gen kid who had boundary enforcing parents but didn’t suffer from cultural clashes and trauma?
Through college and work, I’ve met several 2nd gen adults, and heard about their less than stellar relationships with their parents due to culture clash and strictness. Many seem emotionally traumatized.
We have a five year old daughter. She’s a nice kid but needs discipline. We have been very lax on that partly because I don’t want her to suffer childhood trauma like the people I’ve met. However, I realize the lack of discipline at home is hurting her since she’s started getting into trouble at school. And I know she’s going to need us to enforce boundaries for at least another 13 years, so I need to come to terms with my anxiety.
I’m up to date on all the modern parenting books and techniques, and we are not going to discipline in an old school Asian way, but I can’t help but feel like anything we do will cause trauma because she’s going to eventually realize we are coming from a different culture than hers (especially because her classmates are from fully American backgrounds).
Are you an immigrant parent who has wondered the same? Or a 2nd gen kid who had boundary enforcing parents but didn’t suffer from cultural clashes and trauma?
Can you elaborate on what you mean by "trouble" at school? Social trouble vs poor grades vs petty mischief, for instance, are very different things that should probably be handled differently.
2nd gen kid here. My parents didn't try to give me a fully traditional or fully assimilated childhood, but, I realize now, they tried to pick what they thought were the best parts of both. (It's also worth noting that the "lax American parenting" stereotype that many East Asians hold is a vast oversimplification in itself!) They weren't perfect but as an adult I appreciate that they did their very best, and I have a good relationship with them now.
One other thing: are there any other kids of similar cultural background (or even just other 2nd gen immigrant kids) around you? Like it or not, pretty soon your child is going to figure out that she is different, at least in some ways, from the white American kids. Especially as I got into middle/high school age, it was invaluable to have a group of friends with whom I could bond over shared immigrant kid things (like, OMG your parents wrap your TV remotes in plastic too? so weird right?!)
posted by btfreek at 11:18 AM on January 27 [2 favorites]
2nd gen kid here. My parents didn't try to give me a fully traditional or fully assimilated childhood, but, I realize now, they tried to pick what they thought were the best parts of both. (It's also worth noting that the "lax American parenting" stereotype that many East Asians hold is a vast oversimplification in itself!) They weren't perfect but as an adult I appreciate that they did their very best, and I have a good relationship with them now.
One other thing: are there any other kids of similar cultural background (or even just other 2nd gen immigrant kids) around you? Like it or not, pretty soon your child is going to figure out that she is different, at least in some ways, from the white American kids. Especially as I got into middle/high school age, it was invaluable to have a group of friends with whom I could bond over shared immigrant kid things (like, OMG your parents wrap your TV remotes in plastic too? so weird right?!)
posted by btfreek at 11:18 AM on January 27 [2 favorites]
anything we do will cause trauma because she’s going to eventually realize we are coming from a different culture than hers (especially because her classmates are from fully American backgrounds).
I can't answer the overall question, and what I'm going to say about this specifically isn't wholly applicable either because I grew up as, maybe, a 1.5th gen kid, with a childhood split between different countries whose cultures I both belonged and didn't belong to. But in case it helps at all, I want to say - there were some cultural gaps between me and my parents, but they raised me to love their cultures, see them as fun and cool and beautiful and something to treasure, so when I see stories of 2nd gen kids who grew up resenting their parents' "foreign" culture, that feels really alien to me; if other kids (or adults) were ever critical or mean of any culture foreign to them - mine or anyone else's - or even if they meant well but said things like "you're so lucky to grow up here" - my reaction as a kid was always that they were ignorant and cluelessly provincial. So if you love most or part of your own culture - which I know not everyone does - and if you're not doing it already, show your kid the best parts of it, the parts she can love and enjoy and feel pride in and belonging to. And model how to combine the two - it's not something to wait for her to eventually realize, it's something to spell out together. She gets to experience a culture that not everybody else gets to, and it's an awesome, extra bonus. I feel like a lot of immigrant parents don't do that, especially if they're living in some more aspirational country like the US.
Beyond that, there's also an inevitable cultural gap that everyone has with their parents these days, which is the gap across generational cultures. Everybody's kid is growing up in a very different world than they did. So in addition to letting your kid get to know and connect with your culture as much as possible, get to know hers to the extent that you can. Not just the pop culture stuff, but the cultural attitudes her generation is being exposed to, the concrete realities of growing up in today's conditions and with today's technologies, and so on. And if possible get to know her friends' parents and observe the approaches they use, and the approaches she experiences in her educational settings. It doesn't mean you need to use the same ones (they might not be the right ones for your kid!) but sometimes being able to use some of the same terminology, or adopt parts of approaches that are familiar to her from elsewhere, can help your approach seem universal rather than something coming only from your culture.
For what it's worth, I did have some trauma from one parent's disciplinary approach, but I never felt that was a cultural thing and, having met many other people from all sorts of cultures with similar experiences, it seems like a very common mode of parental behavior, where the parent unthinkingly passes on their own traumas to their kids. I think if you're fair, respectful, and loving to your daughter - if, in moments when she's older or not angry, she can look back and think "okay, that was actually proportional and reasonable and affectionate, and not hypocritical or hurtful or violent or excessively rigid or some kind of narcissistic power trip" - then you'll do well.
Talking through the logic of things also helps (the reasons what they're doing is not okay; the reasons why what they're doing is great; same for what you yourself, or other people, are doing. Does your kid have some values, like being fair to people, not hurting people, and so on? Try to talk through a lot of your own behavior in similar terms - "now I'm calling my friend because I haven't talked with her in a while and it'll make her happy to hear from me. Back then I was polite to that person who bumped into me because I know they didn't mean it, and I believe in politeness." Etc.)
Finally, if you find someone good and can afford it, regular therapy for your kid could be a way for her to get helpful messages around this stuff from someone who's not you, and to have someone she can express herself to in a way that kids often can't to their own parents.
posted by trig at 2:16 PM on January 27 [3 favorites]
I can't answer the overall question, and what I'm going to say about this specifically isn't wholly applicable either because I grew up as, maybe, a 1.5th gen kid, with a childhood split between different countries whose cultures I both belonged and didn't belong to. But in case it helps at all, I want to say - there were some cultural gaps between me and my parents, but they raised me to love their cultures, see them as fun and cool and beautiful and something to treasure, so when I see stories of 2nd gen kids who grew up resenting their parents' "foreign" culture, that feels really alien to me; if other kids (or adults) were ever critical or mean of any culture foreign to them - mine or anyone else's - or even if they meant well but said things like "you're so lucky to grow up here" - my reaction as a kid was always that they were ignorant and cluelessly provincial. So if you love most or part of your own culture - which I know not everyone does - and if you're not doing it already, show your kid the best parts of it, the parts she can love and enjoy and feel pride in and belonging to. And model how to combine the two - it's not something to wait for her to eventually realize, it's something to spell out together. She gets to experience a culture that not everybody else gets to, and it's an awesome, extra bonus. I feel like a lot of immigrant parents don't do that, especially if they're living in some more aspirational country like the US.
Beyond that, there's also an inevitable cultural gap that everyone has with their parents these days, which is the gap across generational cultures. Everybody's kid is growing up in a very different world than they did. So in addition to letting your kid get to know and connect with your culture as much as possible, get to know hers to the extent that you can. Not just the pop culture stuff, but the cultural attitudes her generation is being exposed to, the concrete realities of growing up in today's conditions and with today's technologies, and so on. And if possible get to know her friends' parents and observe the approaches they use, and the approaches she experiences in her educational settings. It doesn't mean you need to use the same ones (they might not be the right ones for your kid!) but sometimes being able to use some of the same terminology, or adopt parts of approaches that are familiar to her from elsewhere, can help your approach seem universal rather than something coming only from your culture.
For what it's worth, I did have some trauma from one parent's disciplinary approach, but I never felt that was a cultural thing and, having met many other people from all sorts of cultures with similar experiences, it seems like a very common mode of parental behavior, where the parent unthinkingly passes on their own traumas to their kids. I think if you're fair, respectful, and loving to your daughter - if, in moments when she's older or not angry, she can look back and think "okay, that was actually proportional and reasonable and affectionate, and not hypocritical or hurtful or violent or excessively rigid or some kind of narcissistic power trip" - then you'll do well.
Talking through the logic of things also helps (the reasons what they're doing is not okay; the reasons why what they're doing is great; same for what you yourself, or other people, are doing. Does your kid have some values, like being fair to people, not hurting people, and so on? Try to talk through a lot of your own behavior in similar terms - "now I'm calling my friend because I haven't talked with her in a while and it'll make her happy to hear from me. Back then I was polite to that person who bumped into me because I know they didn't mean it, and I believe in politeness." Etc.)
Finally, if you find someone good and can afford it, regular therapy for your kid could be a way for her to get helpful messages around this stuff from someone who's not you, and to have someone she can express herself to in a way that kids often can't to their own parents.
posted by trig at 2:16 PM on January 27 [3 favorites]
Oh And I am a 2nd gen kid and the main thing I notice upon reflection was that my parents held themselves away from the local community. Like they felt different and so didn’t make friends and weren’t social. I would have liked them to demonstrate social skills and community participation. Like sports. Sports is huge and the 2nd culture kids I know were just plain left out of it.
In terms of discipline I think it’s natural for the pendulum to swing the other way, but don’t throw the baby out with the bath water and consider the positive benefits of your home culture. You will raise a kid in a blended culture and that means like others said you can pick the best of both worlds.
I would really spend some time exploring your own trauma around your upbringing and the boundaries / expectations and how they were enforced. Then consider how you as an adult want to enforce boundaries with your kids, like how you would have preferred your parents did it with you.
Finally just to say as an adult I had the opportunity to finally visit “the motherland” and experience the culture first hand for the first time. I saw that a portion of what I blamed on the culture was just my parents; and I also saw how much my boomer mom was trying to distance herself from the stuff she didn’t like of her own culture when she raised me. She wasn’t always able to separate herself from her culture but she tried! And she herself was caught between several cultures; the pre/post war gap, and the European / North American gap to name a few.
All this is to say there is no perfect childhood just parents who try to be present and awake for their kids.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 2:41 PM on January 27 [3 favorites]
In terms of discipline I think it’s natural for the pendulum to swing the other way, but don’t throw the baby out with the bath water and consider the positive benefits of your home culture. You will raise a kid in a blended culture and that means like others said you can pick the best of both worlds.
I would really spend some time exploring your own trauma around your upbringing and the boundaries / expectations and how they were enforced. Then consider how you as an adult want to enforce boundaries with your kids, like how you would have preferred your parents did it with you.
Finally just to say as an adult I had the opportunity to finally visit “the motherland” and experience the culture first hand for the first time. I saw that a portion of what I blamed on the culture was just my parents; and I also saw how much my boomer mom was trying to distance herself from the stuff she didn’t like of her own culture when she raised me. She wasn’t always able to separate herself from her culture but she tried! And she herself was caught between several cultures; the pre/post war gap, and the European / North American gap to name a few.
All this is to say there is no perfect childhood just parents who try to be present and awake for their kids.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 2:41 PM on January 27 [3 favorites]
I’m not a parent, and I think I probably did have a bad time as a result of growing up with a parent from another country who was strict (ie had an authoritative parenting style per their culture to start with, and was anxious about what they saw as comparatively permissive Canadian cultural standards, so, more strict than they would have been in their own country, probably). And, I know almost nothing about what kids are facing today, though it seems much more challenging than what my generation had to deal with. So I’m not super equipped to answer this question.
However as an auntie, I have noticed — from a distance and with curiosity — that many millennial parents invest time in explicitly talking about emotions with their kids, to some good effect. Wish that way of teaching were available to my parents, but hey what can you do.
I agree that if you’re marked by difference in a way others can observe or use to judge you, or if you sense this could be a possibility, feeling a sense of pride in that difference is important, ie connecting with families from the same background might be a good thing (depending). So there’s a well of positive associations to counter anything negative that might come at her.
posted by cotton dress sock at 6:48 PM on January 27 [2 favorites]
However as an auntie, I have noticed — from a distance and with curiosity — that many millennial parents invest time in explicitly talking about emotions with their kids, to some good effect. Wish that way of teaching were available to my parents, but hey what can you do.
I agree that if you’re marked by difference in a way others can observe or use to judge you, or if you sense this could be a possibility, feeling a sense of pride in that difference is important, ie connecting with families from the same background might be a good thing (depending). So there’s a well of positive associations to counter anything negative that might come at her.
posted by cotton dress sock at 6:48 PM on January 27 [2 favorites]
First, about me: I am a first gen immigrant from an Asian country (India to be precise). My childhood involved a lot of "discipline" at both home and school. This often took the form of authoritarianism and punishment, including beatings. Deference to parents, teachers, and other elders was the norm. Now I am raising a kid in the US.
Your question seems very focused on cultural differences between "East" and "West", but I don't think that's what you should focus on. "Discipline" is not evidence based, it's tradition-based. Many indigenous cultures don't use any kind of "discipline" at all, rather trusting and relying on the intrinsic motivation of kids to be independent and prosocial. In some cultures, any expression of anger or disapproval of kids is unheard of. These are much more fundamental differences. What can they tell us?
My life experiences and and reading have made me fundamentally question the notion of "disciplining" kids. Some kids are more given to compliance than others. The compliant kids don't need "discipline" because they are eager to please. Conversely, some kids are not given to compliance and may strongly push back. Forcing unilateral/authoritarian "discipline" on these kids will only make things worse. So if discipline benefits neither "good" nor "bad" kids, who does it benefit? It seems to only benefit adults' false sense of control over the situation.
This also holds true for "positive rewards" or "positive reinforcement". Any application of external incentivization defeats the natural growth we should be trying to inculcate.
A couple of books I would recommend:
* The Explosive Child by Ross Greene
* Hunt, Gather, Parent by Michaeleen Doucleff
posted by splitpeasoup at 10:34 PM on January 27 [6 favorites]
Your question seems very focused on cultural differences between "East" and "West", but I don't think that's what you should focus on. "Discipline" is not evidence based, it's tradition-based. Many indigenous cultures don't use any kind of "discipline" at all, rather trusting and relying on the intrinsic motivation of kids to be independent and prosocial. In some cultures, any expression of anger or disapproval of kids is unheard of. These are much more fundamental differences. What can they tell us?
My life experiences and and reading have made me fundamentally question the notion of "disciplining" kids. Some kids are more given to compliance than others. The compliant kids don't need "discipline" because they are eager to please. Conversely, some kids are not given to compliance and may strongly push back. Forcing unilateral/authoritarian "discipline" on these kids will only make things worse. So if discipline benefits neither "good" nor "bad" kids, who does it benefit? It seems to only benefit adults' false sense of control over the situation.
This also holds true for "positive rewards" or "positive reinforcement". Any application of external incentivization defeats the natural growth we should be trying to inculcate.
A couple of books I would recommend:
* The Explosive Child by Ross Greene
* Hunt, Gather, Parent by Michaeleen Doucleff
posted by splitpeasoup at 10:34 PM on January 27 [6 favorites]
I can’t help but feel like anything we do will cause trauma because she’s going to eventually realize we are coming from a different culture than hers
I think it would help to have the mindset that being 2nd generation is a good and special thing. It's not inherently traumatic to have a different experience from your parents and your peers. You can learn from her experience, as much as she can learn from your different experience. And you can find out for yourself (by talking to other parents) what is actually normal for her peers and what is simply wishful thinking on her part.
posted by plonkee at 7:00 AM on January 28
I think it would help to have the mindset that being 2nd generation is a good and special thing. It's not inherently traumatic to have a different experience from your parents and your peers. You can learn from her experience, as much as she can learn from your different experience. And you can find out for yourself (by talking to other parents) what is actually normal for her peers and what is simply wishful thinking on her part.
posted by plonkee at 7:00 AM on January 28
My wife's an immigrant from one culture, and one of my parents is an immigrant from another. I still think you're worrying too much about culture. Kids of any culture need some kind of discipline and structure: they're honestly happier if they know what the rules are. If they don't know what the rules are, they will be constantly pushing at boundaries just to find out where the boundaries are.
Try to set up the smallest number of rules you can, but enforce them with absolute consistency.
One parenting book (I think Janet Lansbury) pointed out that kids often protest things like bedtimes, but never protest being buckled up into a child seat in the car. They know that the second one is non-negotiable so there's no point fighting it.
You're not going to traumatize your kid with discipline unless you use harsh physical punishment, or are wildly over-strict, or are inconsistent about what the rules are so the kid is in constant uncertainty.
Having a reasonable and consistent set of rules with appropriate mild discipline for breaking them isn't traumatic for a kid, it's reassuring.
But if your young kid has tantrums, it might well be that discipline isn't the answer. If they feel genuinely out-of-control with rage, standing over them saying "One day without TV! Two days without TV!" isn't going to do anything because they're not in a state where they can respond rationally.
Instead you might try to address the problem by what's happening before the tantrum starts. There's often a time period where they can choose to try to calm themself down, or choose to keep working themself up into a rage. If you or they can identify those times then get them to do something calming instead.
If you can take reasonable steps to avoid tantrums then try to do that. I found that giving my kid advanced notice "10 minutes till we go" "5 minutes till we go" stopped him being so upset when he had to do something. It's unpleasant for anyone to be suddenly dragged away from a thing you're enjoying. That doesn't mean bending over backwards to their whims, but avoiding unnecessary friction.
I get the feeling you might have older relatives saying things like "If you just gave her a good smack that would fix those tantrums!". They're full of shit. The smack would just make them angrier. Being consistent about discipline is more important than the severity of the discipline.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 8:21 AM on January 28 [2 favorites]
Try to set up the smallest number of rules you can, but enforce them with absolute consistency.
One parenting book (I think Janet Lansbury) pointed out that kids often protest things like bedtimes, but never protest being buckled up into a child seat in the car. They know that the second one is non-negotiable so there's no point fighting it.
You're not going to traumatize your kid with discipline unless you use harsh physical punishment, or are wildly over-strict, or are inconsistent about what the rules are so the kid is in constant uncertainty.
Having a reasonable and consistent set of rules with appropriate mild discipline for breaking them isn't traumatic for a kid, it's reassuring.
But if your young kid has tantrums, it might well be that discipline isn't the answer. If they feel genuinely out-of-control with rage, standing over them saying "One day without TV! Two days without TV!" isn't going to do anything because they're not in a state where they can respond rationally.
Instead you might try to address the problem by what's happening before the tantrum starts. There's often a time period where they can choose to try to calm themself down, or choose to keep working themself up into a rage. If you or they can identify those times then get them to do something calming instead.
If you can take reasonable steps to avoid tantrums then try to do that. I found that giving my kid advanced notice "10 minutes till we go" "5 minutes till we go" stopped him being so upset when he had to do something. It's unpleasant for anyone to be suddenly dragged away from a thing you're enjoying. That doesn't mean bending over backwards to their whims, but avoiding unnecessary friction.
I get the feeling you might have older relatives saying things like "If you just gave her a good smack that would fix those tantrums!". They're full of shit. The smack would just make them angrier. Being consistent about discipline is more important than the severity of the discipline.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 8:21 AM on January 28 [2 favorites]
I get the feeling you might have older relatives saying things like "If you just gave her a good smack that would fix those tantrums!".
For a second I read that as "snack" and thought "why would that be bad advice?" So yeah, you probably already do this but preemptive snacking helps, and generally tracking the circumstances under which your kid has tantrums to see if there are any patterns related to things like hunger or tiredness or overstimulation and so on.
I feel like one of the big cultural differences I've seen wrt kids over the past two decades or so - and again this is as much a generational difference as anything - is the extent to which kids' "bad" behavior is seen as a moral/educational failing versus as a natural reaction to physical, psychological, or neurological discomfort or distress. Where in the former case the traditional approach was punishment, and in the latter case the current approach is more about learning to recognize the triggers and finding ways to either reduce them or better adapt to them. (I think there are also some behaviors that don't quite fall neatly into either category, but there too there seems to have been a move more towards talking things through and modeling good behavior and away from punishing or disparaging.)
That also feels connected to the 'happily multicultural' approach - sort of a worldview where people value understanding each other, putting themselves in each other's shoes, appreciating each other's inner worlds, and so on, rather than only dictating strict norms for the right/normal and wrong/weird way to be.
posted by trig at 9:11 AM on January 28 [1 favorite]
For a second I read that as "snack" and thought "why would that be bad advice?" So yeah, you probably already do this but preemptive snacking helps, and generally tracking the circumstances under which your kid has tantrums to see if there are any patterns related to things like hunger or tiredness or overstimulation and so on.
I feel like one of the big cultural differences I've seen wrt kids over the past two decades or so - and again this is as much a generational difference as anything - is the extent to which kids' "bad" behavior is seen as a moral/educational failing versus as a natural reaction to physical, psychological, or neurological discomfort or distress. Where in the former case the traditional approach was punishment, and in the latter case the current approach is more about learning to recognize the triggers and finding ways to either reduce them or better adapt to them. (I think there are also some behaviors that don't quite fall neatly into either category, but there too there seems to have been a move more towards talking things through and modeling good behavior and away from punishing or disparaging.)
That also feels connected to the 'happily multicultural' approach - sort of a worldview where people value understanding each other, putting themselves in each other's shoes, appreciating each other's inner worlds, and so on, rather than only dictating strict norms for the right/normal and wrong/weird way to be.
posted by trig at 9:11 AM on January 28 [1 favorite]
I realize the lack of discipline at home is hurting her since she’s started getting into trouble at school.
School is a weird experience at five. What she does there probably has a lot more to do with what she experiences at school than at home.
posted by flabdablet at 10:02 AM on January 28 [1 favorite]
School is a weird experience at five. What she does there probably has a lot more to do with what she experiences at school than at home.
posted by flabdablet at 10:02 AM on January 28 [1 favorite]
2nd Gen parent here. Five years old is young. Kids are on a spectrum when it comes to things they understand. Schools are really pushing academics at younger and younger ages (i.e. - kindergarten learning 1st grade material and so on). However, the rise of gentle parenting has caused some real issues with children. I don't know your kid so I am hesitant to comment on the best path for your five year old without more information.
I wonder what behaviors she is exhibiting? Having big emotions? Not listening to instructions? Not sitting quietly? Hitting other children? Not sharing? Depending on what behaviors she has - it could be different reasons (i.e. - sensory differences and/or needing more time to mature and/or boundaries limitation setting, etc.)
posted by ichimunki at 6:18 PM on January 29
I wonder what behaviors she is exhibiting? Having big emotions? Not listening to instructions? Not sitting quietly? Hitting other children? Not sharing? Depending on what behaviors she has - it could be different reasons (i.e. - sensory differences and/or needing more time to mature and/or boundaries limitation setting, etc.)
posted by ichimunki at 6:18 PM on January 29
You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments
Can you elaborate
- how do you see yourselves as lax (examples)
- what trouble is she getting into at school? (Examples)
No one makes it through childhood without associations and issues because the developing mind is just not able to make sense of things like an adult can.
I’ve seen well meaning parents try to shield kids from ever feeling bad feelings. But feelings are an important feedback loop for our thoughts and behaviour; feelings are how we grow. So at its most basic, being too lax would be trying to shield kids from any “bad” experience or natural consequences because you can’t bear the thought of them feeling bad feelings. Kids are very resilient in most cases and can handle the regular ups and downs.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 11:08 AM on January 27 [2 favorites]