How to deal internally with a friend not wanting me to come visit him?
May 22, 2024 7:52 AM Subscribe
My friend is going to Maine for an August getaway/vacation for the entire month, and we discussed the possibility of me coming for a weekend to visit him. Today, he did an about-face and stated he didn't want anyone to come at all. I feel hurt and misled, but acknowledge my emotions are heightened right now because of possible bad news with my cancer/lifespan.
Disclaimer: This is not how to change his mind, or control him or his actions. This is about ME and how to deal internally.
This is the reason I have a hard time trusting people/plans and why I am in therapy (abandonment trauma).
My close friend is going to Maine in August for a getaway trip. We floated around the idea of me coming for a weekend, because Maine has been on my bucket list for a long time now, and we are close, and a month is a long time (for me, anyway). He seemed enthusiastic about the idea of me coming, and suggested we go to a national park (I believe Acadia National Park). Last night, we talked a bit more about the trip, and he said his AirBnB room could not fit more than one person, and that I would need to find a hotel/another AirBnB. No biggie anyway, due to my parcopresis.
This morning, he did a complete about-face and said that he wanted to take the whole month of August to disconnect and focus on himself, and that he didn't want to host anyone. He also said he was meaning to tell me earlier, but he just couldn't find the right time, and he didn't want to break the bad news in front of other friends (both times we discussed it, we were in front of friends).
I was completely caught off guard and deeply hurt, even though I understand his reasons. DC is a very busy place, and everyone does need time to unwind. He's an introvert and needed that, I suppose. However, I feel very misled, especially as he seemed enthusiastic and had suggestions/thoughts, and there was no hint at all of any reluctance. This is a me thing, but I'm also miffed because Maine was on my bucket list and I was looking forward to seeing it with him, while I'm still healthy (hopefully in August, anyway) and before I die.
What is making this worse is (not his fault, and he does not know the details of this yet) that I was recently told by my doctor that if my liver levels go back up again in next week's labs, then we will need to discontinue immunotherapy, and that without immunotherapy, my lifespan/expectancy will be less than 2 years (with or without chemo, apparently, and chemo isn't something I want to go through again). This is very devastating news, even though I expected this, and it's really hard because there's so much I want and have to do, and I feel like some of my friends are taking things for granted and cancelling/changing their plans at will without consideration of others' feelings. I am not trying to be judgmental, but I think right now, everything is heightened because of the stress that is coming with treatments and possibly discontinuing it (which is super awful, especially after how successful they were, but damn the liver).
Anyway, this ^ is why I am in therapy. I can't trust people with plans, I'm always afraid the ball will drop, and I often have been misled in the past, which has been very deeply hurtful, so this opened a wound in me. People's inconsistency, especially my mom's, has affected me over the years. I know my friend's intention is not bad, and I do understand his reasoning. I am not here to ask how to change/control his behavior. I am asking how to cope with this, especially as I thought he was fine and felt very misled? I will discuss this with my therapist at our next appointment later this week, but want your insights. Thanks.
Disclaimer: This is not how to change his mind, or control him or his actions. This is about ME and how to deal internally.
This is the reason I have a hard time trusting people/plans and why I am in therapy (abandonment trauma).
My close friend is going to Maine in August for a getaway trip. We floated around the idea of me coming for a weekend, because Maine has been on my bucket list for a long time now, and we are close, and a month is a long time (for me, anyway). He seemed enthusiastic about the idea of me coming, and suggested we go to a national park (I believe Acadia National Park). Last night, we talked a bit more about the trip, and he said his AirBnB room could not fit more than one person, and that I would need to find a hotel/another AirBnB. No biggie anyway, due to my parcopresis.
This morning, he did a complete about-face and said that he wanted to take the whole month of August to disconnect and focus on himself, and that he didn't want to host anyone. He also said he was meaning to tell me earlier, but he just couldn't find the right time, and he didn't want to break the bad news in front of other friends (both times we discussed it, we were in front of friends).
I was completely caught off guard and deeply hurt, even though I understand his reasons. DC is a very busy place, and everyone does need time to unwind. He's an introvert and needed that, I suppose. However, I feel very misled, especially as he seemed enthusiastic and had suggestions/thoughts, and there was no hint at all of any reluctance. This is a me thing, but I'm also miffed because Maine was on my bucket list and I was looking forward to seeing it with him, while I'm still healthy (hopefully in August, anyway) and before I die.
What is making this worse is (not his fault, and he does not know the details of this yet) that I was recently told by my doctor that if my liver levels go back up again in next week's labs, then we will need to discontinue immunotherapy, and that without immunotherapy, my lifespan/expectancy will be less than 2 years (with or without chemo, apparently, and chemo isn't something I want to go through again). This is very devastating news, even though I expected this, and it's really hard because there's so much I want and have to do, and I feel like some of my friends are taking things for granted and cancelling/changing their plans at will without consideration of others' feelings. I am not trying to be judgmental, but I think right now, everything is heightened because of the stress that is coming with treatments and possibly discontinuing it (which is super awful, especially after how successful they were, but damn the liver).
Anyway, this ^ is why I am in therapy. I can't trust people with plans, I'm always afraid the ball will drop, and I often have been misled in the past, which has been very deeply hurtful, so this opened a wound in me. People's inconsistency, especially my mom's, has affected me over the years. I know my friend's intention is not bad, and I do understand his reasoning. I am not here to ask how to change/control his behavior. I am asking how to cope with this, especially as I thought he was fine and felt very misled? I will discuss this with my therapist at our next appointment later this week, but want your insights. Thanks.
Some people have a hard time saying no. It can even harder in front of other people. So sometimes folks express some interest or seem open to ideas but they need time to reflect on it. It’s maybe better to cultivate an attitude that something is tentative until you have a one-on-one conversation, or maybe wait until you all aren’t in the group to propose a visit.
I also prefer traveling with others, and this would hurt my feelings too. But I’d say that, if you can afford to go to Maine and book a place solo, to go ahead and do that for yourself, unrelated to others’ plans.
posted by bluedaisy at 8:20 AM on May 22 [9 favorites]
I also prefer traveling with others, and this would hurt my feelings too. But I’d say that, if you can afford to go to Maine and book a place solo, to go ahead and do that for yourself, unrelated to others’ plans.
posted by bluedaisy at 8:20 AM on May 22 [9 favorites]
First, I think you are correct that your health situation is impacting how you feel about what would otherwise be totally normal and regular human interactions. In addition to your regular therapist, are you able to ask for a referral to a counselor who specializes in illness and grief?
I'm not a therapist, obviously, or an expert on working through abandonment trauma. However, to my mind, the way to cope with an adult disappointment is to acknowledge the hurt feelings and feel them; and then lean into the parts of the situation you control. I get that the abandonment trauma might complicate this because it takes you back to a time/place where you were powerless, but you are not anymore.
As congen suggests, book your own trip! If you were figuring on being healthy enough to make the trip and stay by yourself then you don't actually need your friend's permission to come to Maine. Even if they're there at the same time!
t's really hard because there's so much I want and have to do, and I feel like some of my friends are taking things for granted and cancelling/changing their plans at will without consideration of others' feelings
At this point you need to basically say, fuck 'em if they can't hang. I wish you had the kind of friends who would drop everything for you in this time of your life and I get that you also wish that but honey, you do not. Your friends, as illustrated by almost every single one of your posts here, by and large, suck donkey butt. They cannot be there for you and will not, as they have demonstrated a thousand times in the past. It sucks. But it is. not. changeable. And the sad fact is, they don't have the kind of bucket list you have. Theirs are still theoretical. Yours is real. And every day you don't cross something off it is a fucking tragedy frankly.
So YOU have to be there for you. You have to be the friend who tells you, "it's their loss, we could have had a killer time in Maine, but meantime these lobster rolls ain't gonna eat themselves." Every thing you think you want a friend to do with/for you, do with/for yourself. Don't waste your precious time waiting for one of those ding-dongs to finally pull their head outta their ass because you will literally waste the rest of your life that way.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 8:24 AM on May 22 [49 favorites]
I'm not a therapist, obviously, or an expert on working through abandonment trauma. However, to my mind, the way to cope with an adult disappointment is to acknowledge the hurt feelings and feel them; and then lean into the parts of the situation you control. I get that the abandonment trauma might complicate this because it takes you back to a time/place where you were powerless, but you are not anymore.
As congen suggests, book your own trip! If you were figuring on being healthy enough to make the trip and stay by yourself then you don't actually need your friend's permission to come to Maine. Even if they're there at the same time!
t's really hard because there's so much I want and have to do, and I feel like some of my friends are taking things for granted and cancelling/changing their plans at will without consideration of others' feelings
At this point you need to basically say, fuck 'em if they can't hang. I wish you had the kind of friends who would drop everything for you in this time of your life and I get that you also wish that but honey, you do not. Your friends, as illustrated by almost every single one of your posts here, by and large, suck donkey butt. They cannot be there for you and will not, as they have demonstrated a thousand times in the past. It sucks. But it is. not. changeable. And the sad fact is, they don't have the kind of bucket list you have. Theirs are still theoretical. Yours is real. And every day you don't cross something off it is a fucking tragedy frankly.
So YOU have to be there for you. You have to be the friend who tells you, "it's their loss, we could have had a killer time in Maine, but meantime these lobster rolls ain't gonna eat themselves." Every thing you think you want a friend to do with/for you, do with/for yourself. Don't waste your precious time waiting for one of those ding-dongs to finally pull their head outta their ass because you will literally waste the rest of your life that way.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 8:24 AM on May 22 [49 favorites]
I agree, go solo or plan a trip with different friend or group of friends! I know flaky friends are a recurring source of pain for you but there's really nothing you can do to stop people from flaking on you (and yeah your friends seem abnormally flaky! And on the other hand you tend to expect a lot more from your friends than you ever get, which seems hard on you). Your friends may even know they're causing you pain and feel bad about doing so and *still* flake out on you, because even good friends who are trying their best are fallible human beings who mess up.
What you *can* do is make plans that don't rely on other people being non-flaky - either plans that don't involve other people or plans that will still be worthwhile for you even if/when your friends flake out.
posted by mskyle at 8:31 AM on May 22 [3 favorites]
What you *can* do is make plans that don't rely on other people being non-flaky - either plans that don't involve other people or plans that will still be worthwhile for you even if/when your friends flake out.
posted by mskyle at 8:31 AM on May 22 [3 favorites]
First, I'm so sorry that your medical news isn't better. I'm putting this somewhat directly in hopes that it might give you ideas for discussion with your therapist, but you should continue to be as gentle with yourself as possible.
As a practical matter: Go by yourself. If you could get there independent of him, and stay there independent of him, you can go altogether independent of him. If not now, when?
As an emotional matter: You're going through an unbelievably difficult and dramatic period of your life, and of course every emotion feels heightened. But what I recall from your pre-diagnosis Asks was fundamentally the same. At least in the way you describe yourself here, you are incredibly emotionally dependent on other people and treat every frustration or contradiction of your expectations of them as a catastrophe. A friend changing their mind several months in advance about spending a weekend with you is not abandonment. It stings, of course it stings, but he didn't leave you stranded at a remote cottage without a car for three days or something. (He also tried to avoid embarrassing you by not contradicting you about the plans in front of other people, so he wasn't being totally thoughtless.)
"I feel like some of my friends are taking things for granted and cancelling/changing their plans at will without consideration of others' feelings"--yes, because they are living their own lives according to their own needs and wishes and knowledge of their situations, and not in service of your feelings. (Based on other things you've said, some of them seem like not the most thoughtful and considerate people, but this is independent of that.) This, within limits, is as it should be, especially as they increase in distance from the center of your life. Note that you haven't told your friend about your possibly worsening medical news and you don't know what might be going on in his life--he probably doesn't have cancer but, for all you know, he's battling with a depressive episode or going through a bad breakup or completely burned out at work and just desperately needs some time alone. You've turned what was probably (from what he did say) from his perspective a sensible move to try to restore his spirits when in need by canceling a fairly casual plan, made well in advance to avoid inconveniencing you too much, into a selfish disregard of your crisis-level needs. This approach is bringing unnecessary distress into your life, and...well. It can be self-perpetuating. If you're behaving around people the way you think about them, your friends may like you very much but find it challenging or exhausting to be expected to meet your needs in this way, leading them to pull away.
You don't say you've broached this with your therapist yet, but I absolutely think you should. "Distress tolerance" might be a phrase you could use with them. This can be a serious problem and you deserve help from an experienced practitioner. In other words, professional advice, maybe not stopgaps from us Internet randos. Except that you should totally go by yourself to Maine anyway, do whatever you want without having to worry about coordinating with someone else, and have a great time. That's an easy one!
posted by praemunire at 8:41 AM on May 22 [33 favorites]
As a practical matter: Go by yourself. If you could get there independent of him, and stay there independent of him, you can go altogether independent of him. If not now, when?
As an emotional matter: You're going through an unbelievably difficult and dramatic period of your life, and of course every emotion feels heightened. But what I recall from your pre-diagnosis Asks was fundamentally the same. At least in the way you describe yourself here, you are incredibly emotionally dependent on other people and treat every frustration or contradiction of your expectations of them as a catastrophe. A friend changing their mind several months in advance about spending a weekend with you is not abandonment. It stings, of course it stings, but he didn't leave you stranded at a remote cottage without a car for three days or something. (He also tried to avoid embarrassing you by not contradicting you about the plans in front of other people, so he wasn't being totally thoughtless.)
"I feel like some of my friends are taking things for granted and cancelling/changing their plans at will without consideration of others' feelings"--yes, because they are living their own lives according to their own needs and wishes and knowledge of their situations, and not in service of your feelings. (Based on other things you've said, some of them seem like not the most thoughtful and considerate people, but this is independent of that.) This, within limits, is as it should be, especially as they increase in distance from the center of your life. Note that you haven't told your friend about your possibly worsening medical news and you don't know what might be going on in his life--he probably doesn't have cancer but, for all you know, he's battling with a depressive episode or going through a bad breakup or completely burned out at work and just desperately needs some time alone. You've turned what was probably (from what he did say) from his perspective a sensible move to try to restore his spirits when in need by canceling a fairly casual plan, made well in advance to avoid inconveniencing you too much, into a selfish disregard of your crisis-level needs. This approach is bringing unnecessary distress into your life, and...well. It can be self-perpetuating. If you're behaving around people the way you think about them, your friends may like you very much but find it challenging or exhausting to be expected to meet your needs in this way, leading them to pull away.
You don't say you've broached this with your therapist yet, but I absolutely think you should. "Distress tolerance" might be a phrase you could use with them. This can be a serious problem and you deserve help from an experienced practitioner. In other words, professional advice, maybe not stopgaps from us Internet randos. Except that you should totally go by yourself to Maine anyway, do whatever you want without having to worry about coordinating with someone else, and have a great time. That's an easy one!
posted by praemunire at 8:41 AM on May 22 [33 favorites]
I understand why your feelings are hurt, and I'm sorry this thing you were looking forward to went awry!
Please do plan your own trip to Maine, maybe with a different friend or maybe on your own if relying on other people for planning is too stressful. Travelling solo can be terrific and I highly recommend doing Maine exactly the way you want to do it without having to take anyone else into account.
Definitely also take this whole experience to your therapist. I do think your overall stress is probably getting to you a bit here and causing you to see a broken commitment where your friend saw "fun idea we kicked around on a couple of nights out but hadn't yet made any serious commitment to doing." That's completely understandable but also something maybe your therapist can help you find some good coping strategies for.
posted by Stacey at 8:44 AM on May 22 [3 favorites]
Please do plan your own trip to Maine, maybe with a different friend or maybe on your own if relying on other people for planning is too stressful. Travelling solo can be terrific and I highly recommend doing Maine exactly the way you want to do it without having to take anyone else into account.
Definitely also take this whole experience to your therapist. I do think your overall stress is probably getting to you a bit here and causing you to see a broken commitment where your friend saw "fun idea we kicked around on a couple of nights out but hadn't yet made any serious commitment to doing." That's completely understandable but also something maybe your therapist can help you find some good coping strategies for.
posted by Stacey at 8:44 AM on May 22 [3 favorites]
Sorry about your friend and medical news - I think people have covered that, but I just want to make another recommendation to travel solo. Maine could be a great first solo trip - keep it simple, rent a place for a week, treat yourself to a car rental if that will make things easier, etc. Solo travel if a bit more work, but it can be very self-affirming and exhilarating in a way that traveling as a pair/group is not.
posted by coffeecat at 9:17 AM on May 22 [1 favorite]
posted by coffeecat at 9:17 AM on May 22 [1 favorite]
Your friend has flaked on you. That sucks.
Feeling misled when you've been misled is unpleasant, but there's nothing to be done about that. It's not a problem to be solved, it's emotion responding to circumstances exactly as it should.
posted by flabdablet at 9:18 AM on May 22 [4 favorites]
Feeling misled when you've been misled is unpleasant, but there's nothing to be done about that. It's not a problem to be solved, it's emotion responding to circumstances exactly as it should.
posted by flabdablet at 9:18 AM on May 22 [4 favorites]
I see two separate things to address:
1. Regarding your friend's change of plans on Maine - that sucks, but its also good that he came to you directly, before you spent money, made travel arrangements, etc. It does show more respect than freaking out last minute, or even being resentful and not saying anything and then you have a bad vacation.
2. You should share your heightened health concerns with your friends, and soon! Not to change your Maine friend's plan, but so that all your friends can take your health into account when they make and / or change plans. Knowing a friend is in ill health and may have less time to live does influence how one relates, and that seems important for you to share.
Good luck that sounds really hard - friendships are difficult and your health situation makes it even more so, you seem like you are handling it with self-reflection and grace.
posted by RajahKing at 9:24 AM on May 22 [5 favorites]
1. Regarding your friend's change of plans on Maine - that sucks, but its also good that he came to you directly, before you spent money, made travel arrangements, etc. It does show more respect than freaking out last minute, or even being resentful and not saying anything and then you have a bad vacation.
2. You should share your heightened health concerns with your friends, and soon! Not to change your Maine friend's plan, but so that all your friends can take your health into account when they make and / or change plans. Knowing a friend is in ill health and may have less time to live does influence how one relates, and that seems important for you to share.
Good luck that sounds really hard - friendships are difficult and your health situation makes it even more so, you seem like you are handling it with self-reflection and grace.
posted by RajahKing at 9:24 AM on May 22 [5 favorites]
Go to Maine on your own! Screw this "friend". You can enjoy the world all on your own, while you are still able to. Sucks that friend flaked, but, other people, amirite? Nothing you can really do about other people being weird.
posted by Windopaene at 9:28 AM on May 22 [1 favorite]
posted by Windopaene at 9:28 AM on May 22 [1 favorite]
A friend did this to me once, after I already had tickets and everything. I went anyway without them, and later put the pieces together to realize that the cancellation was truly 100% about a shitty thing going on in their own life I'd been unaware of, and cancelling with me was essentially an afterthought to those logistics. I don't know that you'll ever have a clear answer about what's happened here, but maybe it'd help to deliberately imagine scenarios where his decision had nothing to do with you? It'd still be a dropped plan, and still an example of why it's helpful to work on being able to pivot to another plan that doesn't require anyone else's participation, but at least then it's not a betrayal so much as bad luck.
Wishing you all the best.
posted by teremala at 9:29 AM on May 22 [10 favorites]
Wishing you all the best.
posted by teremala at 9:29 AM on May 22 [10 favorites]
I think you're framing it wrong. You weren't misled. You and your friend talked about it - "floated around the idea" is how you put it - but never made concrete plans. In fact, he didn't even let a full 24 hours pass from 'you should probably get your own room' to 'actually, on reflection, I need to put myself first so let's stop planning'. That's pretty considerate! You didn't spend any money or make any arrangements. Plans were simply being talked about. Maybe you need to reframe your expectations of that - talking about plans and actually following through on those plans are two very, very different things.
You weren't misled. Plans changed, is all.
Now, given your medical diagnoses, it's perfectly okay for you to feel sad that plans changed. Heck, even if you were totally healthy it would be okay to feel sad! But that is your issue to deal with, and I do think you should bring it up in therapy. You need to figure out how to be okay with plans changing, because it's going to keep happening. Things change. If you two had made firm dates and you had spent money and your friend then all of a sudden cancelled, THAT would be an appropriate time to feel anger/hurt/whatever, because that would indeed be shitty. Your friend actually did you a solid by coming clean super early in the planning process. And it does sound like your friend doesn't know the potential dire medical news you may or may not have coming; would he have kept the plans as is had he known? We can't know that. Of course your friends are taking things for granted. They're living their lives without being under the shadow of cancer. It's different for you, naturally. Have you been open and honest with your friends about your health? Or are you waiting until you have news either way to let them know? It's fine either way but it does kind of feel like you're expecting your friends to guess about your health status (please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm just going by what you wrote here).
And even if they do know, it's just really hard to be a friend or family member of someone who has cancer. I am not saying it's harder than what you're going through; it's terrible what you're going through. It's also terrible for the people who love you. Some of them are going to be amazing pillars of strength for you, some are not. We're all just human, after all. I can guess that you'd be one of those pillars of strength for a loved one, and that's incredible. Not everyone has that in them.
posted by cooker girl at 9:39 AM on May 22 [27 favorites]
You weren't misled. Plans changed, is all.
Now, given your medical diagnoses, it's perfectly okay for you to feel sad that plans changed. Heck, even if you were totally healthy it would be okay to feel sad! But that is your issue to deal with, and I do think you should bring it up in therapy. You need to figure out how to be okay with plans changing, because it's going to keep happening. Things change. If you two had made firm dates and you had spent money and your friend then all of a sudden cancelled, THAT would be an appropriate time to feel anger/hurt/whatever, because that would indeed be shitty. Your friend actually did you a solid by coming clean super early in the planning process. And it does sound like your friend doesn't know the potential dire medical news you may or may not have coming; would he have kept the plans as is had he known? We can't know that. Of course your friends are taking things for granted. They're living their lives without being under the shadow of cancer. It's different for you, naturally. Have you been open and honest with your friends about your health? Or are you waiting until you have news either way to let them know? It's fine either way but it does kind of feel like you're expecting your friends to guess about your health status (please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm just going by what you wrote here).
And even if they do know, it's just really hard to be a friend or family member of someone who has cancer. I am not saying it's harder than what you're going through; it's terrible what you're going through. It's also terrible for the people who love you. Some of them are going to be amazing pillars of strength for you, some are not. We're all just human, after all. I can guess that you'd be one of those pillars of strength for a loved one, and that's incredible. Not everyone has that in them.
posted by cooker girl at 9:39 AM on May 22 [27 favorites]
I am asking how to cope with this
Ok, here's an idea for after you do the grieving and the angering, the crying and the raging, the nursing your very real and painful wound that your friends aren't who you thought they were. After that critical first step, which may also be ongoing:
Go out and find different, better friends. Make it a top-tier personal project for you to experience real friendship with people who won't constantly let you down. You can't rely on these people, but you can find different people and put your energy where it will come back to you, and that's even better.
You say you have 2 years left to live? That's enough time to meet some new acquaintances and spend enough time with them that they turn into actual friends. If you're honest with them about your diagnosis, some of them may willingly accelerate the process of becoming friends with you.
There's a term about dating life I've heard recently: broken picker syndrome. People with broken pickers have an internal process that leads them to ignore red flags when they see them. They keep hoping for the other person to change, or that the red flag was an accident, or that it wasn't that bad. They stay in situations where a secure person would have just moved on to someone else.
Maybe do some work to recalibrate your friend-picker, and then go out and try to make new friends. Sending strength.
posted by danceswithlight at 10:05 AM on May 22 [4 favorites]
Ok, here's an idea for after you do the grieving and the angering, the crying and the raging, the nursing your very real and painful wound that your friends aren't who you thought they were. After that critical first step, which may also be ongoing:
Go out and find different, better friends. Make it a top-tier personal project for you to experience real friendship with people who won't constantly let you down. You can't rely on these people, but you can find different people and put your energy where it will come back to you, and that's even better.
You say you have 2 years left to live? That's enough time to meet some new acquaintances and spend enough time with them that they turn into actual friends. If you're honest with them about your diagnosis, some of them may willingly accelerate the process of becoming friends with you.
There's a term about dating life I've heard recently: broken picker syndrome. People with broken pickers have an internal process that leads them to ignore red flags when they see them. They keep hoping for the other person to change, or that the red flag was an accident, or that it wasn't that bad. They stay in situations where a secure person would have just moved on to someone else.
Maybe do some work to recalibrate your friend-picker, and then go out and try to make new friends. Sending strength.
posted by danceswithlight at 10:05 AM on May 22 [4 favorites]
This previous comment of mine, where I anthropomorphized a stack of storage bins into the person who ghosted me so I could talk to him whenever I wanted without him leaving, might also be of interest. Ambiguous loss is so hard, and that whole thread is great.
posted by danceswithlight at 10:10 AM on May 22 [1 favorite]
posted by danceswithlight at 10:10 AM on May 22 [1 favorite]
I want to echo what cooker girl said that your friend didn’t do anything wrong here. You discussed traveling together, he quickly changed his mind, let you know about it, and took care to tell you in a way that wasn’t embarrassing to you. People get to change their minds as long as they do it in a respectful way.
I say all that because you seem stuck (in this question and in others) on the idea that you only get to feel sad if other people judge you to have been wronged. But you don’t need someone to have wronged you to feel sad! It’s totally legitimate to feel sad about this without your friend having done anything wrong.
Perhaps that is something to discuss with your therapist, how you can reframe your hurt and center your feelings of disappointment away from your friend.
posted by scantee at 10:19 AM on May 22 [19 favorites]
I say all that because you seem stuck (in this question and in others) on the idea that you only get to feel sad if other people judge you to have been wronged. But you don’t need someone to have wronged you to feel sad! It’s totally legitimate to feel sad about this without your friend having done anything wrong.
Perhaps that is something to discuss with your therapist, how you can reframe your hurt and center your feelings of disappointment away from your friend.
posted by scantee at 10:19 AM on May 22 [19 favorites]
This is about ME and how to deal internally.
The Maine coast in August is super busy. Going to Acadia for a weekend you'd likely just be stuck in traffic most of the time.
Enjoy the moments you have here!
posted by HearHere at 10:20 AM on May 22 [3 favorites]
The Maine coast in August is super busy. Going to Acadia for a weekend you'd likely just be stuck in traffic most of the time.
Enjoy the moments you have here!
posted by HearHere at 10:20 AM on May 22 [3 favorites]
I really hope that you get better lab results next week and will be able to continue with immunotherapy.
That said, as a cancer patient myself, I really, really want to encourage you to get yourself to a cancer support group. People who do not have cancer simply don't get it - no matter how great their intentions. You could update your friends on every bit of news, every single blood test, detailed accounts of every scan, and they still would not understand the relentless nature of this - what it's like to truly be facing your own mortality, to live from one bit of shitty news to the next, to finally get good news, but find yourself waiting for the other shoe to drop. And especially what it's like to live like this for years and years.
There are many, many great support groups online and in person. I've suggested this before, so I'm sorry to continue beating this drum - but I really, really think that getting to know other cancer patients would greatly improve your life. You have so many issues with your friends letting you down - please, please, please give yourself the gift of getting to know some people who will understand exactly what you're going through and who are committed to supporting others in the same boat.
Just googling, I found Pink Wings of Hope, which supports deaf people with cancer. They started as a group for deaf women with breast cancer, which I assume explains the name, but have expanded to help deaf people with all kinds of cancers.
You deserve more support and help, but you are going to have to go find it.
posted by FencingGal at 10:21 AM on May 22 [30 favorites]
That said, as a cancer patient myself, I really, really want to encourage you to get yourself to a cancer support group. People who do not have cancer simply don't get it - no matter how great their intentions. You could update your friends on every bit of news, every single blood test, detailed accounts of every scan, and they still would not understand the relentless nature of this - what it's like to truly be facing your own mortality, to live from one bit of shitty news to the next, to finally get good news, but find yourself waiting for the other shoe to drop. And especially what it's like to live like this for years and years.
There are many, many great support groups online and in person. I've suggested this before, so I'm sorry to continue beating this drum - but I really, really think that getting to know other cancer patients would greatly improve your life. You have so many issues with your friends letting you down - please, please, please give yourself the gift of getting to know some people who will understand exactly what you're going through and who are committed to supporting others in the same boat.
Just googling, I found Pink Wings of Hope, which supports deaf people with cancer. They started as a group for deaf women with breast cancer, which I assume explains the name, but have expanded to help deaf people with all kinds of cancers.
You deserve more support and help, but you are going to have to go find it.
posted by FencingGal at 10:21 AM on May 22 [30 favorites]
But you don’t need someone to have wronged you to feel sad! It’s totally legitimate to feel sad about this without your friend having done anything wrong.
100%! I have a friend coming to visit this weekend. Last night she called me and I thought she was leading up to saying that she might have to cancel to go visit her dying mother, and I still felt bad even though that would have been the best reason in the world and this is a friend of many years who I have no doubt loves me (so no social anxiety). Disappointment sucks, even if it's no one's fault.
posted by praemunire at 10:37 AM on May 22
100%! I have a friend coming to visit this weekend. Last night she called me and I thought she was leading up to saying that she might have to cancel to go visit her dying mother, and I still felt bad even though that would have been the best reason in the world and this is a friend of many years who I have no doubt loves me (so no social anxiety). Disappointment sucks, even if it's no one's fault.
posted by praemunire at 10:37 AM on May 22
Response by poster: FencingGal: I will DM you for more suggestions for online cancer support groups.
Going to Acadia for a weekend you'd likely just be stuck in traffic most of the time.
Fair.
You weren't misled. Plans changed, is all.
Actually, it turns out that he had already known he wanted the month in Maine to himself and didn't want to host anyone. He didn't mention it when we discussed the idea 3 weeks ago initially, and then when we discussed it last night, he realized he forgot to tell me he had his mind set on the month being by himself. The fact that he said yes initially even though he already knew he didn't want anybody to come, AND continued the facade last night, is why I felt misled.
Regarding your friend's change of plans on Maine - that sucks, but its also good that he came to you directly, before you spent money, made travel arrangements, etc. It does show more respect than freaking out last minute, or even being resentful and not saying anything and then you have a bad vacation.
That's fair, it was considerate of him to at least let me know ~3 months in advance rather than ghosting/flaking/freaking out near the time of travel when I had already purchased tickets.
"Distress tolerance" might be a phrase you could use with them.
Good idea, I'll bring that up with my therapist at our next session and see what he has to suggest. That, coupled with danceswithlight, are great ideas and coping tools for talking with people who had made me mad/upset/whatever.
My friend confessed to me that he tends to be avoidant in general, which might have led to this. I suggested that perhaps a better approach next time would be to, if he felt uncertain or didn't want something, but was in public, to say something like "That's an interesting idea, let me think about this a bit and get back to you!" That way, we both would save face, no misleading would happen, and I would get a straight answer in private when he's ready to share the news/his preference (in this situation, for nobody to come visit him in Maine). That way, my/others' hopes would not be brought up only to be dashed.
This friend is always very prompt/timely (never flaky/ghosty) and has been very supportive in general through my cancer journey (but wasn't supportive when I told him I was discontinuing chemo—he said he thought it was the wrong decision, but he eventually came around and accepted it). That's mainly why I was so surprised at his about-face.
I acknowledge the suggestions for solo travel, but tbh, I would much prefer to travel with friends. It's more fun, more memories are made, and it's just better. I did the solo thing last year and it was nice, but not as fun as if I was with somebody. I guess that's being extroverted for you.
I have shared my cancer journey with all my close/good friends (which he is part of), but for the liver/discontinuing immunotherapy part, that's on hold until next week's labs.
Question: If it does turn out that discontinuing immunotherapy is needed and my lifespan/life expectancy reduces to ~2 or less years, would it be worth re-visiting the idea with my friend to see if he would be more amenable to me visiting for a weekend, or maybe just 1-2 days, given the lessened lifespan and trying to go to places when I'm still (relatively) healthy and well (if that does end up being the case)? I don't want to trample on boundaries but do feel this could be considered an extraordinary situation that might require a bit outside-the-box thinking. That way, I can grab the opportunity to see Maine and spend time with him, while being with all other friends and family during that time, and grabbing every moment while I'm still able to.
posted by dubious_dude at 11:05 AM on May 22 [2 favorites]
Going to Acadia for a weekend you'd likely just be stuck in traffic most of the time.
Fair.
You weren't misled. Plans changed, is all.
Actually, it turns out that he had already known he wanted the month in Maine to himself and didn't want to host anyone. He didn't mention it when we discussed the idea 3 weeks ago initially, and then when we discussed it last night, he realized he forgot to tell me he had his mind set on the month being by himself. The fact that he said yes initially even though he already knew he didn't want anybody to come, AND continued the facade last night, is why I felt misled.
Regarding your friend's change of plans on Maine - that sucks, but its also good that he came to you directly, before you spent money, made travel arrangements, etc. It does show more respect than freaking out last minute, or even being resentful and not saying anything and then you have a bad vacation.
That's fair, it was considerate of him to at least let me know ~3 months in advance rather than ghosting/flaking/freaking out near the time of travel when I had already purchased tickets.
"Distress tolerance" might be a phrase you could use with them.
Good idea, I'll bring that up with my therapist at our next session and see what he has to suggest. That, coupled with danceswithlight, are great ideas and coping tools for talking with people who had made me mad/upset/whatever.
My friend confessed to me that he tends to be avoidant in general, which might have led to this. I suggested that perhaps a better approach next time would be to, if he felt uncertain or didn't want something, but was in public, to say something like "That's an interesting idea, let me think about this a bit and get back to you!" That way, we both would save face, no misleading would happen, and I would get a straight answer in private when he's ready to share the news/his preference (in this situation, for nobody to come visit him in Maine). That way, my/others' hopes would not be brought up only to be dashed.
This friend is always very prompt/timely (never flaky/ghosty) and has been very supportive in general through my cancer journey (but wasn't supportive when I told him I was discontinuing chemo—he said he thought it was the wrong decision, but he eventually came around and accepted it). That's mainly why I was so surprised at his about-face.
I acknowledge the suggestions for solo travel, but tbh, I would much prefer to travel with friends. It's more fun, more memories are made, and it's just better. I did the solo thing last year and it was nice, but not as fun as if I was with somebody. I guess that's being extroverted for you.
I have shared my cancer journey with all my close/good friends (which he is part of), but for the liver/discontinuing immunotherapy part, that's on hold until next week's labs.
Question: If it does turn out that discontinuing immunotherapy is needed and my lifespan/life expectancy reduces to ~2 or less years, would it be worth re-visiting the idea with my friend to see if he would be more amenable to me visiting for a weekend, or maybe just 1-2 days, given the lessened lifespan and trying to go to places when I'm still (relatively) healthy and well (if that does end up being the case)? I don't want to trample on boundaries but do feel this could be considered an extraordinary situation that might require a bit outside-the-box thinking. That way, I can grab the opportunity to see Maine and spend time with him, while being with all other friends and family during that time, and grabbing every moment while I'm still able to.
posted by dubious_dude at 11:05 AM on May 22 [2 favorites]
Re: your follow-up question, I would still let the Maine trip with this friend lie. I think it sounds like he owned his piece of this “misconnect” (not sure what to call it) exceptionally well, if he is able to come out and say, yeah, I was feeling avoidant and that’s why I wasn’t direct. If a conversation about your health status gives him a change of heart, let him bring it up. He definitely knows you’re interested.
Echoing everyone’s suggestions to go to Maine. But meanwhile, please do find other ways to connect with this friend in person if you can. He actually sounds like a keeper to me. Are you both DC based? Could you make weekend plans somewhere closer before August? Tons of nice parks near enough to serve as day or weekend outings if memory serves. I bet if you can squeeze that in before August, by the time he’s in Maine you’ll be over the sting.
posted by eirias at 11:17 AM on May 22 [10 favorites]
Echoing everyone’s suggestions to go to Maine. But meanwhile, please do find other ways to connect with this friend in person if you can. He actually sounds like a keeper to me. Are you both DC based? Could you make weekend plans somewhere closer before August? Tons of nice parks near enough to serve as day or weekend outings if memory serves. I bet if you can squeeze that in before August, by the time he’s in Maine you’ll be over the sting.
posted by eirias at 11:17 AM on May 22 [10 favorites]
It's totally ok to feel bad that your friend said he didn't want to travel together! That hurts, period. And the cancer worries make it worse, of course. But, he sounds like a pretty good friend overall, and someone who cares about you, so I would just try hard to not dwell on it. Introverts are gonna introvert, etc.
As I tell my kindergartener, people are allowed to decide they don't want to play with us. It's hard in kindergarten and it's hard as adults, too - I still get hurt about stuff like that. But even if it hurts, we just have to let it go, think about something else and keep it moving.
>If it does turn out that my life expectancy reduces, would it be worth re-visiting the idea with my friend to see if he would be more amenable to me visiting for a weekend, or maybe just 1-2 days?
When he hears about your newer medical news, I suppose he might offer. But if he does not offer, I do not think you should ask, it would be putting him on the spot and he'd basically be forced to say yes, which is unfair to him.
If he does offer, I would suggest checking in to make sure the offer is sincere, and how you could be a part of his trip that allows him to still preserve the overall vibe he was hoping the trip to have, and then, if that works for you too, go and enjoy!
I think you should make your own bucket list and start checking things off - it's a good life practice in general - and I hope your labs turn out well so you have lots of time to keep doing the list.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 11:41 AM on May 22 [6 favorites]
As I tell my kindergartener, people are allowed to decide they don't want to play with us. It's hard in kindergarten and it's hard as adults, too - I still get hurt about stuff like that. But even if it hurts, we just have to let it go, think about something else and keep it moving.
>If it does turn out that my life expectancy reduces, would it be worth re-visiting the idea with my friend to see if he would be more amenable to me visiting for a weekend, or maybe just 1-2 days?
When he hears about your newer medical news, I suppose he might offer. But if he does not offer, I do not think you should ask, it would be putting him on the spot and he'd basically be forced to say yes, which is unfair to him.
If he does offer, I would suggest checking in to make sure the offer is sincere, and how you could be a part of his trip that allows him to still preserve the overall vibe he was hoping the trip to have, and then, if that works for you too, go and enjoy!
I think you should make your own bucket list and start checking things off - it's a good life practice in general - and I hope your labs turn out well so you have lots of time to keep doing the list.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 11:41 AM on May 22 [6 favorites]
Follow up question: I would plan a different trip with friend to someplace else on your list or just somewhere where you can spend quality time with friend in a less pressure setting.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 11:58 AM on May 22 [4 favorites]
posted by JohnnyGunn at 11:58 AM on May 22 [4 favorites]
Sending lots of hugs, dubious_dude. Both for the current medical prognosis and being disappointed by your friend's decision, even though I do think he handled it relatively well.
As a single person who lives alone, I TOTALLY hear you on not wanting to travel by yourself. To me, it's not a vacation unless I have some friends or family in tow! I wonder if there are any travel groups for deaf folks? I know there are plenty of those groups for single women, so maybe they exist for the deaf community as well.
Also echoing that 1) you need better friends; and 2) you should absolutely look into finding friends via cancer groups. Those people will Get It in a way that none of your current friends will. (Maybe you could meet someone else who is interested in traveling!)
posted by leftover_scrabble_rack at 12:40 PM on May 22 [2 favorites]
As a single person who lives alone, I TOTALLY hear you on not wanting to travel by yourself. To me, it's not a vacation unless I have some friends or family in tow! I wonder if there are any travel groups for deaf folks? I know there are plenty of those groups for single women, so maybe they exist for the deaf community as well.
Also echoing that 1) you need better friends; and 2) you should absolutely look into finding friends via cancer groups. Those people will Get It in a way that none of your current friends will. (Maybe you could meet someone else who is interested in traveling!)
posted by leftover_scrabble_rack at 12:40 PM on May 22 [2 favorites]
Your friend's flaking sounds to me like introvert problems. Over-committing and not prioritizing time to recharge are things I regularly do to myself. It sounds like your friend tried to set up a trip that would do the prioritizing for him, and then got swept up making different plans like a self-sabotaging fool. ...I may be reading into the situation some... But it may be a kindness to just let him do his hermit thing on this trip.
I've found that vacationing with others can be very hit or miss - both the planning stages and after arrival. Flakiness abounds. I wish you great luck in travel planning, and hope your next medical news is good.
posted by mersen at 12:45 PM on May 22 [1 favorite]
I've found that vacationing with others can be very hit or miss - both the planning stages and after arrival. Flakiness abounds. I wish you great luck in travel planning, and hope your next medical news is good.
posted by mersen at 12:45 PM on May 22 [1 favorite]
Actually, it turns out that he had already known he wanted the month in Maine to himself and didn't want to host anyone. He didn't mention it when we discussed the idea 3 weeks ago initially, and then when we discussed it last night, he realized he forgot to tell me he had his mind set on the month being by himself. The fact that he said yes initially even though he already knew he didn't want anybody to come, AND continued the facade last night, is why I felt misled.
So it seems your friend wanted this to be a solo trip but did not feel comfortable telling you no.
Now he's come clean about his needs and it seems like it's difficult for you to accept that he really does not want to host you.
You are saying he should have phrased it differently but also - I'm sorry - you seem to find it hard to take no for an answer. From your follow-up, you're considering talking to him in order to change his mind.
It's okay to let people know you need support but when someone is not in a place to meet your needs then we have to let them. I don't see anything in your description to suggest the friend is taking you for granted. That's not what taking someone for granted means.
Sometimes strangers in a support group can be better positioned to help. And you can meet interesting people who will truly get you.
posted by M. at 12:50 PM on May 22 [13 favorites]
So it seems your friend wanted this to be a solo trip but did not feel comfortable telling you no.
Now he's come clean about his needs and it seems like it's difficult for you to accept that he really does not want to host you.
You are saying he should have phrased it differently but also - I'm sorry - you seem to find it hard to take no for an answer. From your follow-up, you're considering talking to him in order to change his mind.
It's okay to let people know you need support but when someone is not in a place to meet your needs then we have to let them. I don't see anything in your description to suggest the friend is taking you for granted. That's not what taking someone for granted means.
Sometimes strangers in a support group can be better positioned to help. And you can meet interesting people who will truly get you.
posted by M. at 12:50 PM on May 22 [13 favorites]
Regarding the question in your update: If I were your friend, I would feel very pressured and even manipulated if you came back to me with news about your labs and a second request to visit after I’d already said no. I would wish I didn’t feel that way! But I would resent that my clear no wasn’t being respected or honored. And if I did capitulate to you, as your friend might if he is avoidant like me, I would feel even more resentful and our friendship would suffer significantly because it would be hard for me to get over what I would perceive as coercion.
It’s ok for you to be upset about the situation, and to feel that this is your friend rejecting you. Rejection sucks! But it really sounds like it’s more about him than about you. It’s not a matter of you correctly explaining the situation to him: your wish for a bucket list experience and time together, regardless of your prognosis, does not outweigh his need for a month alone, in his calculus. Trying to make your perspective the objective truth of the situation in an attempt to get what you want, however subconsciously, is something you could bring up to your therapist. This type of tendency can be uncomfortable to sit with, even though it usually stems from childhood trauma and isn’t something we consciously do. Working on these tendencies in therapy has been really good for me and helped my friendships thrive and maybe it could do the same for you.
posted by stellaluna at 12:54 PM on May 22 [18 favorites]
It’s ok for you to be upset about the situation, and to feel that this is your friend rejecting you. Rejection sucks! But it really sounds like it’s more about him than about you. It’s not a matter of you correctly explaining the situation to him: your wish for a bucket list experience and time together, regardless of your prognosis, does not outweigh his need for a month alone, in his calculus. Trying to make your perspective the objective truth of the situation in an attempt to get what you want, however subconsciously, is something you could bring up to your therapist. This type of tendency can be uncomfortable to sit with, even though it usually stems from childhood trauma and isn’t something we consciously do. Working on these tendencies in therapy has been really good for me and helped my friendships thrive and maybe it could do the same for you.
posted by stellaluna at 12:54 PM on May 22 [18 favorites]
Today, he did an about-face and stated he didn't want anyone to come at all. I feel hurt and misled,
That’s because you were hurt and misled. And while he didn’t directly abandon you, he did abandon plans he had with you.
This is a good example of why you shouldn’t trust people — at least never 100%. Life gets in the way, they’re actively duplicitous, there are innocent miscommunications: even people with the best intentions are going to occasionally let you down.
I think that is where I would focus my internal dialogue. Internally you appear to have two states — abandoned and not abandoned. I think you could put a 1 to 10 scale in there. Your mother did a hard ten, where this is more of a 2 or 3 (or 4). Thinking in those terms may help you calibrate your internal experience.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 1:02 PM on May 22 [3 favorites]
That’s because you were hurt and misled. And while he didn’t directly abandon you, he did abandon plans he had with you.
This is a good example of why you shouldn’t trust people — at least never 100%. Life gets in the way, they’re actively duplicitous, there are innocent miscommunications: even people with the best intentions are going to occasionally let you down.
I think that is where I would focus my internal dialogue. Internally you appear to have two states — abandoned and not abandoned. I think you could put a 1 to 10 scale in there. Your mother did a hard ten, where this is more of a 2 or 3 (or 4). Thinking in those terms may help you calibrate your internal experience.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 1:02 PM on May 22 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: If I were your friend, I would feel very pressured and even manipulated if you came back to me with news about your labs and a second request to visit after I’d already said no.
When he hears about your newer medical news, I suppose he might offer. But if he does not offer, I do not think you should ask, it would be putting him on the spot and he'd basically be forced to say yes, which is unfair to him.
From your follow-up, you're considering talking to him in order to change his mind.
Very, very, very good points. That is something I was worried about (coming across as pressuring/manipulative) so I will not pursue this again. We can figure out another trip somewhere, and Maine will just have to wait until another time (earlier or later). I'm glad I gathered your perspectives than actually doing it—never hurts to ask here, and I'm definitely glad I asked you guys.
I don't see anything in your description to suggest the friend is taking you for granted.
Sorry I wasn't clear, I wasn't referring to him specifically — was referring to other friends in general.
Trying to make your perspective the objective truth of the situation in an attempt to get what you want, however subconsciously, is something you could bring up to your therapist.
Good point. I'll do that as well at my next session.
I hope your labs turn out well so you have lots of time to keep doing the list.
I hope so, too!
Okay, enough threadsitting. I think I've said everything I need to say here and will bring this situation up, as well as your suggestions, with therapy, and join cancer support groups online.
Have a good one!
posted by dubious_dude at 1:33 PM on May 22 [7 favorites]
When he hears about your newer medical news, I suppose he might offer. But if he does not offer, I do not think you should ask, it would be putting him on the spot and he'd basically be forced to say yes, which is unfair to him.
From your follow-up, you're considering talking to him in order to change his mind.
Very, very, very good points. That is something I was worried about (coming across as pressuring/manipulative) so I will not pursue this again. We can figure out another trip somewhere, and Maine will just have to wait until another time (earlier or later). I'm glad I gathered your perspectives than actually doing it—never hurts to ask here, and I'm definitely glad I asked you guys.
I don't see anything in your description to suggest the friend is taking you for granted.
Sorry I wasn't clear, I wasn't referring to him specifically — was referring to other friends in general.
Trying to make your perspective the objective truth of the situation in an attempt to get what you want, however subconsciously, is something you could bring up to your therapist.
Good point. I'll do that as well at my next session.
I hope your labs turn out well so you have lots of time to keep doing the list.
I hope so, too!
Okay, enough threadsitting. I think I've said everything I need to say here and will bring this situation up, as well as your suggestions, with therapy, and join cancer support groups online.
Have a good one!
posted by dubious_dude at 1:33 PM on May 22 [7 favorites]
This is the reason I have a hard time trusting people/plans and why I am in therapy (abandonment trauma).
work on this. this is what you can do. you maybe don’t have a lot of time left—you want to spend it, i assume, making and sustaining the real connections that matter to you. so work through whatever the abandonment trauma is, with the hope that you can be present in these relationships, with these friends, in ways that feel good.
look, people promise things all the time that they can’t actually deliver. it’s not because they are deceiving you—to the contrary, they want to help and overpromise because they care, because they wish they could. see that for what it is, a desire to express care. and figure out how to get the things you want and how to ask people things without pinning your hopes on a particular result.
this seems like work you’d have to do regardless, but man, now is the time. if you want to feel whole, to feel free—i want that for you! and if it’s not on the bucket list, maybe it should be!—you gotta do it now.
posted by knock my sock and i'll clean your clock at 10:00 PM on May 22 [3 favorites]
work on this. this is what you can do. you maybe don’t have a lot of time left—you want to spend it, i assume, making and sustaining the real connections that matter to you. so work through whatever the abandonment trauma is, with the hope that you can be present in these relationships, with these friends, in ways that feel good.
look, people promise things all the time that they can’t actually deliver. it’s not because they are deceiving you—to the contrary, they want to help and overpromise because they care, because they wish they could. see that for what it is, a desire to express care. and figure out how to get the things you want and how to ask people things without pinning your hopes on a particular result.
this seems like work you’d have to do regardless, but man, now is the time. if you want to feel whole, to feel free—i want that for you! and if it’s not on the bucket list, maybe it should be!—you gotta do it now.
posted by knock my sock and i'll clean your clock at 10:00 PM on May 22 [3 favorites]
This is the reason I have a hard time trusting people/plans
I realize this is easier said than done but if we want to be able to trust people making plans with us to *really mean it when they say yes* then we need to be gracious abut accepting a NO. Otherwise people won't be honest about their wishes and preferences. There's just no way around it.
But also, sometimes there are people around us that we are overlooking and who might become great friends if we don't invest all our time into connections that just don't work that great.
Hope you can do something nice for yourself.
posted by M. at 12:28 PM on May 23 [4 favorites]
I realize this is easier said than done but if we want to be able to trust people making plans with us to *really mean it when they say yes* then we need to be gracious abut accepting a NO. Otherwise people won't be honest about their wishes and preferences. There's just no way around it.
But also, sometimes there are people around us that we are overlooking and who might become great friends if we don't invest all our time into connections that just don't work that great.
Hope you can do something nice for yourself.
posted by M. at 12:28 PM on May 23 [4 favorites]
trying to address your specific question of how to deal internally with this situation.
I am prone to getting my feelings hurt by friend flakiness. One thing I do is set a timer for 20 minutes and just write whatever is on my mind without editing or crossing out or trying to determine if what I am writing is true, just write out my thoughts and feelings. I force myself to keep writing even if I run out of steam way before 20 minutes. Sometimes I just end up writing " I wish I could think of something else to write" and similar. What seems to help me about this is creating a time and space that's just for the feelings to be felt. If I feel like crying while writing I just cry while writing. The limit also helps in that I feel less worried about being overwhelmed and derailed by the feelings.
When the 20 minutes is up I rip up the writing and throw it away. For me at least this helps dissipate strong feelings so they are not so intrusive.
Another thing I do internally to deal with such situations is figure out some version of events where the other person's actions would totally make sense and be acceptable to me. Like......that guy really did feel totally on board with you piggybacking on his vacation in the moment but then he got a huge but super private life blow such that he knew he was pretty much going to have to spend the whole vacation crying and grieving.
And another thing I do is just try to see things from the other person's perspective. I will tell you personally that I HAAAATE it when other people want to join in on vacations I did not plan with them or even just want to give me activities I didn't choose. ("call up my cousin Dale when you're in Chicago, no you HAVE to call him, he's so fun!). I get to go on trips so rarely and when I do there's always so many moving parts, it's not the time to have someone throw in more moving parts, no matter how much I love them.
However if I were at a casual gathering of friends mentioning my upcoming solo trip and someone said "hey what if I came too?" I would feel super on the spot and might postpone the awkwardness of my internal "absolutely not!" The "hey let me think about it" script you suggested to your friend is good, but kind of advanced social skills and especially if he's never had that situation come up before, it's not hard to imagine that he wouldn't automatically know to do that.
So, like, maybe try to see how he wasn't prepared to handle this awkwardness perfectly.
posted by Jenny'sCricket at 1:39 PM on May 24
I am prone to getting my feelings hurt by friend flakiness. One thing I do is set a timer for 20 minutes and just write whatever is on my mind without editing or crossing out or trying to determine if what I am writing is true, just write out my thoughts and feelings. I force myself to keep writing even if I run out of steam way before 20 minutes. Sometimes I just end up writing " I wish I could think of something else to write" and similar. What seems to help me about this is creating a time and space that's just for the feelings to be felt. If I feel like crying while writing I just cry while writing. The limit also helps in that I feel less worried about being overwhelmed and derailed by the feelings.
When the 20 minutes is up I rip up the writing and throw it away. For me at least this helps dissipate strong feelings so they are not so intrusive.
Another thing I do internally to deal with such situations is figure out some version of events where the other person's actions would totally make sense and be acceptable to me. Like......that guy really did feel totally on board with you piggybacking on his vacation in the moment but then he got a huge but super private life blow such that he knew he was pretty much going to have to spend the whole vacation crying and grieving.
And another thing I do is just try to see things from the other person's perspective. I will tell you personally that I HAAAATE it when other people want to join in on vacations I did not plan with them or even just want to give me activities I didn't choose. ("call up my cousin Dale when you're in Chicago, no you HAVE to call him, he's so fun!). I get to go on trips so rarely and when I do there's always so many moving parts, it's not the time to have someone throw in more moving parts, no matter how much I love them.
However if I were at a casual gathering of friends mentioning my upcoming solo trip and someone said "hey what if I came too?" I would feel super on the spot and might postpone the awkwardness of my internal "absolutely not!" The "hey let me think about it" script you suggested to your friend is good, but kind of advanced social skills and especially if he's never had that situation come up before, it's not hard to imagine that he wouldn't automatically know to do that.
So, like, maybe try to see how he wasn't prepared to handle this awkwardness perfectly.
posted by Jenny'sCricket at 1:39 PM on May 24
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posted by congen at 7:56 AM on May 22 [80 favorites]