Maintaining a relationship after a friend lets you down
May 24, 2022 3:58 AM Subscribe
My close friend of 20 years has disappointed me throughout my parent's illness and passing. I feel unsupported during an incredibly difficult time, despite having "shown up" for this friend often over the years during their hard times. I'd welcome hearing from those who have faced a similar situation- if you were able to move beyond the disappointment and recover the relationship or if you let it go.
My parent unexpectedly became ill last year and passed away a few months ago. It has been the hardest period of my life, between the stress of caregiving and the ongoing grief of my beloved parent. I am still trying to recover.
During this time, one of my closest friends has been a great disappointment. We are in our late 30s and have been friends for nearly 20 years, talking every few weeks and sharing the important life things. I have spent thousands of hours supporting her through school, career and relationship challenges. I know I am her first call during hard times. I mention that only as background, not because I think it is special. I believe that is what friends are supposed to do.
While she expressed sympathies during my parent’s illness and after the loss, I never felt genuinely supported. She would call on occasion to see how I was doing, but didn’t seem to really care for the answer. When I shared that I was having a hard time she’d change the subject and ask me things like “When do you think you will go back home?” or “Are you on leave or taking vacation time?” I found it insensitive and eventually stopped even answering her calls. I didn’t want to pour out my heart or expect everything to be about my family situation, but I did expect some genuine care and concern. In contrast, two other less-close friends were wonderful, calling with comforting words, affirming my feelings and providing tangible support.
Given our long close relationship, I did call her a few days after my parent passed away. Her response was “thank you for letting me know” which I thought was odd. (Other friends said they were so sorry, expressed shock, etc.) She then proceeded to prattle on about what I should do for “self care” and tell me that it would take time but I would feel better. It felt dismissive. She has never lost a parent or close family, but, still. She asked about the services and I told her I would let her know although I did not expect her to come, especially given the pandemic. I emailed her the info a couple days later. Honestly, due to my disappointment in her, I didn’t want her to come.
She did not acknowledge the email nor come to the service. She has never asked about it. She did not send flowers or even a card. (However, she loves to bring me pricey, unnecessary gifts out of the blue on other non-occasions.) Meanwhile, other good friends sent arrangements, cards and one flew clear across the country to attend. I am very grateful and have felt supported by other (some unexpected) people.
Now here I am, a few months out, and I question if I want to remain friends with her. Since I have been home, she calls all the time again. I don’t answer most calls. When we speak, she asks how I am, but again, she doesn’t want to really hear. She says “Im so glad you’re back!” and “I missed you!” and wants to get together. She recently complained “You don’t call me anymore.” She also asked me for a work-related favor, although I had already told her I have a very full workload and little energy. She doesn’t seem to get it, or doesn’t care.
Again, disappointment.
I would welcome hearing from others who have gone through a similar situation to hear how you handled it and if you were ever able to re-engage with the friendship. At this point I feel like I can maybe muster talking to her briefly every few months, but she keeps on looking for the relationship we once had. I don't want to continue to engage someone and feel resentful at every turn, as I do now.
I will note that she is not someone who takes feedback or criticism well, so I am not planning on expressing my disappointment to her. If we are to really continue, I will basically need to just get over it. But I am not sure if I can, nor if I should. What is the point of a close friend if they can’t show up when times are tough? While some friends are just for socializing etc., that has not been our relationship. We are supposed to be close. She often even expresses how much she appreciates the ways that I have been there for her. So, what about me?
Thank you and I welcome any thoughts.
My parent unexpectedly became ill last year and passed away a few months ago. It has been the hardest period of my life, between the stress of caregiving and the ongoing grief of my beloved parent. I am still trying to recover.
During this time, one of my closest friends has been a great disappointment. We are in our late 30s and have been friends for nearly 20 years, talking every few weeks and sharing the important life things. I have spent thousands of hours supporting her through school, career and relationship challenges. I know I am her first call during hard times. I mention that only as background, not because I think it is special. I believe that is what friends are supposed to do.
While she expressed sympathies during my parent’s illness and after the loss, I never felt genuinely supported. She would call on occasion to see how I was doing, but didn’t seem to really care for the answer. When I shared that I was having a hard time she’d change the subject and ask me things like “When do you think you will go back home?” or “Are you on leave or taking vacation time?” I found it insensitive and eventually stopped even answering her calls. I didn’t want to pour out my heart or expect everything to be about my family situation, but I did expect some genuine care and concern. In contrast, two other less-close friends were wonderful, calling with comforting words, affirming my feelings and providing tangible support.
Given our long close relationship, I did call her a few days after my parent passed away. Her response was “thank you for letting me know” which I thought was odd. (Other friends said they were so sorry, expressed shock, etc.) She then proceeded to prattle on about what I should do for “self care” and tell me that it would take time but I would feel better. It felt dismissive. She has never lost a parent or close family, but, still. She asked about the services and I told her I would let her know although I did not expect her to come, especially given the pandemic. I emailed her the info a couple days later. Honestly, due to my disappointment in her, I didn’t want her to come.
She did not acknowledge the email nor come to the service. She has never asked about it. She did not send flowers or even a card. (However, she loves to bring me pricey, unnecessary gifts out of the blue on other non-occasions.) Meanwhile, other good friends sent arrangements, cards and one flew clear across the country to attend. I am very grateful and have felt supported by other (some unexpected) people.
Now here I am, a few months out, and I question if I want to remain friends with her. Since I have been home, she calls all the time again. I don’t answer most calls. When we speak, she asks how I am, but again, she doesn’t want to really hear. She says “Im so glad you’re back!” and “I missed you!” and wants to get together. She recently complained “You don’t call me anymore.” She also asked me for a work-related favor, although I had already told her I have a very full workload and little energy. She doesn’t seem to get it, or doesn’t care.
Again, disappointment.
I would welcome hearing from others who have gone through a similar situation to hear how you handled it and if you were ever able to re-engage with the friendship. At this point I feel like I can maybe muster talking to her briefly every few months, but she keeps on looking for the relationship we once had. I don't want to continue to engage someone and feel resentful at every turn, as I do now.
I will note that she is not someone who takes feedback or criticism well, so I am not planning on expressing my disappointment to her. If we are to really continue, I will basically need to just get over it. But I am not sure if I can, nor if I should. What is the point of a close friend if they can’t show up when times are tough? While some friends are just for socializing etc., that has not been our relationship. We are supposed to be close. She often even expresses how much she appreciates the ways that I have been there for her. So, what about me?
Thank you and I welcome any thoughts.
I'm sorry your friend didn't support you in the way that you needed support.
There are a few different possible reasons as to why this happened. You might have always been part of an unequal dynamic where only one person provides support and one person takes support, and only noticed or found it a problem now. It might be that she is unable to provide support to anyone in the way that you wanted it then, and that she was doing the best she could with the skills she had. It's possible that you cared more about her and your friendship than she did about you.
Whatever the case, it sounds like now you are in the position where she cares more about continuing the friendship than you do. She is reaching out to you in the way that a friend would and you do not like it (any more). She gets you gifts which you criticise, she wants to get together but you don't, she calls and you don't answer, you don't like the way in which she asks how you are and you don't want to do her favours. You are annoyed that she didn't come to your parent's funeral but you didn't want her to come anyway.
I don't think you should feel differently. You are clearly disappointed in her and that is making all her overtures tone deaf. I would try to let it go. She has not actively intended to harm you, she just didn't step up in the way that you would have liked. But other people did step up. I would take a break from her and lean in to the friendships you cherish now. Perhaps in time you will feel differently and perhaps you won't.
When my parent died unexpectedly, I found that the people who were the most supportive of me personally, were either those who were equally close to my parent, or people who did not know my parent at all. People who were in between didn't share my grief nor were they able to focus on me and my needs. It's been a decade since my parent died and in the intervening time, I've often thought warmly and fondly of the people who did step up and support me. I don't (for want of a better expression) hold a grudge against the people who didn't or couldn't. But that's just because time has passed and helped heal my feelings, not because I did anything in particular.
posted by plonkee at 4:41 AM on May 24, 2022 [13 favorites]
There are a few different possible reasons as to why this happened. You might have always been part of an unequal dynamic where only one person provides support and one person takes support, and only noticed or found it a problem now. It might be that she is unable to provide support to anyone in the way that you wanted it then, and that she was doing the best she could with the skills she had. It's possible that you cared more about her and your friendship than she did about you.
Whatever the case, it sounds like now you are in the position where she cares more about continuing the friendship than you do. She is reaching out to you in the way that a friend would and you do not like it (any more). She gets you gifts which you criticise, she wants to get together but you don't, she calls and you don't answer, you don't like the way in which she asks how you are and you don't want to do her favours. You are annoyed that she didn't come to your parent's funeral but you didn't want her to come anyway.
I don't think you should feel differently. You are clearly disappointed in her and that is making all her overtures tone deaf. I would try to let it go. She has not actively intended to harm you, she just didn't step up in the way that you would have liked. But other people did step up. I would take a break from her and lean in to the friendships you cherish now. Perhaps in time you will feel differently and perhaps you won't.
When my parent died unexpectedly, I found that the people who were the most supportive of me personally, were either those who were equally close to my parent, or people who did not know my parent at all. People who were in between didn't share my grief nor were they able to focus on me and my needs. It's been a decade since my parent died and in the intervening time, I've often thought warmly and fondly of the people who did step up and support me. I don't (for want of a better expression) hold a grudge against the people who didn't or couldn't. But that's just because time has passed and helped heal my feelings, not because I did anything in particular.
posted by plonkee at 4:41 AM on May 24, 2022 [13 favorites]
It's struck you that this childhood friend is only capable of seeing you as a sidekick. This awareness has robbed you of yet another significant emotional investment. I'm sorry you're going through it but it sure seems like a good time to more forward with friends that can reciprocate your feelings.
posted by brachiopod at 5:27 AM on May 24, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by brachiopod at 5:27 AM on May 24, 2022 [7 favorites]
"I don't want to continue to engage someone and feel resentful at every turn, as I do now.... I am not planning on expressing my disappointment to her."
If you are filled with resentment and don't intend to discuss it with her then there is no friendship to maintain.
posted by headnsouth at 5:28 AM on May 24, 2022 [33 favorites]
If you are filled with resentment and don't intend to discuss it with her then there is no friendship to maintain.
posted by headnsouth at 5:28 AM on May 24, 2022 [33 favorites]
Take some distance from the friendship right now. You’re not enjoying her company and she’s not giving you what you need out of a friendship. Focus on your other friends who are a better match for you. That doesn’t mean you can’t eventually, far down the road, reconnect with this friend if circumstances change.
posted by mekily at 5:51 AM on May 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by mekily at 5:51 AM on May 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
This happened to me over thirty years ago. I don't think about it much anymore, but when I do, it's still painful.
There were a lot of early deaths in my family, and I think everyone who goes through something like that finds out that you can rarely predict who is really going to show up in a crisis. Some people are really good at things like that, and some people back away. It's very painful because that is when you need your friends the most.
In the specific case I'm thinking of, my closest friend just could not be there for me when my brother died. I tried to forgive her and get back to something like what we had before - and it just never worked. Something was lost, and there really was no fixing it. I even wrote her a letter maybe twenty years later - she wrote back, and then I wrote again, and then I never heard from her - my guess is that the big health issue I was dealing with at the time was too much for her.
But you don't have to make a big decision right now. You are still in the comparatively early stages of grief - that's not a great time to make decisions. There's nothing wrong with just seeing how you feel over time and letting the friendship take its course - which may eventually mean ending it. I'm sorry you are dealing with this. I know how hard it is.
posted by FencingGal at 5:57 AM on May 24, 2022 [5 favorites]
There were a lot of early deaths in my family, and I think everyone who goes through something like that finds out that you can rarely predict who is really going to show up in a crisis. Some people are really good at things like that, and some people back away. It's very painful because that is when you need your friends the most.
In the specific case I'm thinking of, my closest friend just could not be there for me when my brother died. I tried to forgive her and get back to something like what we had before - and it just never worked. Something was lost, and there really was no fixing it. I even wrote her a letter maybe twenty years later - she wrote back, and then I wrote again, and then I never heard from her - my guess is that the big health issue I was dealing with at the time was too much for her.
But you don't have to make a big decision right now. You are still in the comparatively early stages of grief - that's not a great time to make decisions. There's nothing wrong with just seeing how you feel over time and letting the friendship take its course - which may eventually mean ending it. I'm sorry you are dealing with this. I know how hard it is.
posted by FencingGal at 5:57 AM on May 24, 2022 [5 favorites]
I let them all go, everybody. I'm not sure I was right, not sure if I was wrong. I feel alone, but relieved nobody else is going to let me down, but then I didn't ask for help.
posted by b33j at 6:06 AM on May 24, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by b33j at 6:06 AM on May 24, 2022 [4 favorites]
When I lost my daughter, a few of my friends handled it really badly. A few handled it really well. In vague terms, the ones who handled it well tended to be people who had experienced similar losses or had healthy family attitudes towards grief and death. The people who didn't either had big traumas around death in their lives or hadn't experienced loss that way yet. (This is a very big generalization obviously but it did more or less sort out that way.)
I gave myself time to get over it and lo and behold, most of them are still friends now.
In general I've found that I feel best about my friends, and my relationships feel most solid, when I don't look to a friend to be good at ALL aspects of friendship. I have friends that are great at creating fun, friends that are great at showing up and doing laundry in a crisis, friends who are networkers, friends who are hermits...maybe you get the idea. I think you could look at this situation either as a friendship that's run its course, or that you have a friend who is just not good at this kind of thing. It's really up to you and what you want in friendships.
posted by warriorqueen at 6:19 AM on May 24, 2022 [82 favorites]
I gave myself time to get over it and lo and behold, most of them are still friends now.
In general I've found that I feel best about my friends, and my relationships feel most solid, when I don't look to a friend to be good at ALL aspects of friendship. I have friends that are great at creating fun, friends that are great at showing up and doing laundry in a crisis, friends who are networkers, friends who are hermits...maybe you get the idea. I think you could look at this situation either as a friendship that's run its course, or that you have a friend who is just not good at this kind of thing. It's really up to you and what you want in friendships.
posted by warriorqueen at 6:19 AM on May 24, 2022 [82 favorites]
Based on what you've written here, it's not clear whether this friend truly dropped the ball or if she just didn't understand what you needed. I personally would give her the benefit of the doubt since you have previously been so close for so long. It also sounds like you haven't seen her in person at all throughout any of this, and it's possible that care is being lost in translation because of that. I'd recommend getting together and seeing how it feels.
posted by metasarah at 6:27 AM on May 24, 2022 [14 favorites]
posted by metasarah at 6:27 AM on May 24, 2022 [14 favorites]
When I was a child and I was annoyed with a friend for something they had done, my mother always told me that no one is perfect and no one friend can be everything for you. As I get older, I think about this more and more. It sounds like this friend has been important to you in other ways and at other times, but the way she tried to be supportive to you during this difficult time was not what you wanted in the moment. This may be disappointing because perhaps in the past the longevity of the relationship made you expect that she could be everything for you; clearly this is not the case.
You ask, "What is the point of a close friend if they can’t show up when times are tough?" Gently, it sounds like this friend showed up in her way, and that way wasn't right for you. It also sounds like at other times in your life—because life is more than just tough times—she was a good friend to and for you.
It is possible that this experience may sour you on relationship so that you can't go back, and it's possible that part of what you liked about the relationship in the past was the belief—now disproven—that she would be a comfort to you in hypothetical, future hard times. But it's also possible that as you emerge from this hardest part of your life, you may find comfort in returning to old patterns, and to the more banal experiences of friendship when times aren't so tough.
posted by telegraph at 6:27 AM on May 24, 2022 [33 favorites]
You ask, "What is the point of a close friend if they can’t show up when times are tough?" Gently, it sounds like this friend showed up in her way, and that way wasn't right for you. It also sounds like at other times in your life—because life is more than just tough times—she was a good friend to and for you.
It is possible that this experience may sour you on relationship so that you can't go back, and it's possible that part of what you liked about the relationship in the past was the belief—now disproven—that she would be a comfort to you in hypothetical, future hard times. But it's also possible that as you emerge from this hardest part of your life, you may find comfort in returning to old patterns, and to the more banal experiences of friendship when times aren't so tough.
posted by telegraph at 6:27 AM on May 24, 2022 [33 favorites]
There were a lot of early deaths in my family, and I think everyone who goes through something like that finds out that you can rarely predict who is really going to show up in a crisis. Some people are really good at things like that, and some people back away. It's very painful because that is when you need your friends the most.
Like a lot of people, we have had a couple of close deaths in the family in the last two years, and this describes exactly what we experienced. Some people both care enough and know how to step up, but lots of people don't or can't. I think it runs a wide gamut of reasons why they don't: they maybe turn out to not care as much, have their own complicated feelings or personal traumas around death, or maybe most common, simply don't know what to do. (In hindsight, I can see now that in the past I stepped up much less than I should have for friends in this situation because I didn't know what to do beyond a general "hey, if you ever want to talk...")
Personally I found it easy to move past the issue of who stepped up and who didn't -- I see it more as the people who stepped up gave me a gift (and as time has gone by, I have expressed to them how much it meant to me at the time); the people who didn't or couldn't step up didn't do me any harm, they just sort of weren't present at that time.
I think that recalibrating how close you feel to this person and dialing down your contact with them sounds healthy and appropriate. Maybe later your feelings will shift and the friendship will re-solidify, or maybe not, but it sounds like you are at a point currently where this friendship isn't working well for you.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:38 AM on May 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
Like a lot of people, we have had a couple of close deaths in the family in the last two years, and this describes exactly what we experienced. Some people both care enough and know how to step up, but lots of people don't or can't. I think it runs a wide gamut of reasons why they don't: they maybe turn out to not care as much, have their own complicated feelings or personal traumas around death, or maybe most common, simply don't know what to do. (In hindsight, I can see now that in the past I stepped up much less than I should have for friends in this situation because I didn't know what to do beyond a general "hey, if you ever want to talk...")
Personally I found it easy to move past the issue of who stepped up and who didn't -- I see it more as the people who stepped up gave me a gift (and as time has gone by, I have expressed to them how much it meant to me at the time); the people who didn't or couldn't step up didn't do me any harm, they just sort of weren't present at that time.
I think that recalibrating how close you feel to this person and dialing down your contact with them sounds healthy and appropriate. Maybe later your feelings will shift and the friendship will re-solidify, or maybe not, but it sounds like you are at a point currently where this friendship isn't working well for you.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:38 AM on May 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
I think it runs a wide gamut of reasons why they don't: they maybe turn out to not care as much, have their own complicated feelings or personal traumas around death, or maybe most common, simply don't know what to do.
To not abuse the edit window: I would add to this that everyone is going through their own stuff (all the more so these days with the pandemic and everything else in the world) and sometimes people's emotional plates are simply full and there isn't room to add your issues.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:42 AM on May 24, 2022 [12 favorites]
To not abuse the edit window: I would add to this that everyone is going through their own stuff (all the more so these days with the pandemic and everything else in the world) and sometimes people's emotional plates are simply full and there isn't room to add your issues.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:42 AM on May 24, 2022 [12 favorites]
So, honestly, if I had to identify the core problem with this friendship of yours, it would be that you don't feel that even after 20+ years that you can approach your apparently dear friend with any kind of criticism at all. Else you could have said to her, six months back, "hey friend, look, I know you're missing our old good times, but I'm having a super hard thing happen right now. I don't need to be reminded of what I'm missing, I need you to [XYZ]."
People aren't psychic, even if they love us. She may even have been doing what she'd want someone else to do for her--it is not at all uncommon for someone going through trauma to want a friend with whom they can just be their old, non-grieving selves for a few minutes. In fact, that is advice often given to people who ask how they can support a friend through a loss/illness/other grief--give the person space to talk or think about something other than grief or sickness. She might be horrified to hear that she'd let you down in this critical time.
It seems to me that if you're ready to burn the friendship, you have nothing to lose by being honest with her. Even if she responds poorly in the moment, she may eventually digest it and come around as a more helpful friend to you. But regardless, you don't have to do anything at all right now. Reply to all of her overtures with the truth, that you just don't much feel like socializing right now, for as long as you'd like to.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 7:06 AM on May 24, 2022 [48 favorites]
People aren't psychic, even if they love us. She may even have been doing what she'd want someone else to do for her--it is not at all uncommon for someone going through trauma to want a friend with whom they can just be their old, non-grieving selves for a few minutes. In fact, that is advice often given to people who ask how they can support a friend through a loss/illness/other grief--give the person space to talk or think about something other than grief or sickness. She might be horrified to hear that she'd let you down in this critical time.
It seems to me that if you're ready to burn the friendship, you have nothing to lose by being honest with her. Even if she responds poorly in the moment, she may eventually digest it and come around as a more helpful friend to you. But regardless, you don't have to do anything at all right now. Reply to all of her overtures with the truth, that you just don't much feel like socializing right now, for as long as you'd like to.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 7:06 AM on May 24, 2022 [48 favorites]
Also just worth noting that anger is a big part of grief and that it is maaaaybe just slightly possible that you are angrier at her because she is a safe place to put the anger that is really about your parent, or about the unfairness of death and grief, etc., and how dare people just go on being happy and regular while this is happening I hate their stupid prattling self-care faces. I mean, uh, maybe possibly, based on my experiences with such.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 7:21 AM on May 24, 2022 [30 favorites]
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 7:21 AM on May 24, 2022 [30 favorites]
“Thank you for letting me know/sharing,” is what I’d say to a dear friend who has been caretaking for months and may even feel some relief (and also sadness and grief) at losing that person.
I’ve never been caretaker like that or lost someone that close to me. Reading your story I think I would make many of the same mistakes. I didn’t even support my friends who went to grad school well until I went to grad school and finally got it.
posted by raccoon409 at 7:30 AM on May 24, 2022 [9 favorites]
I’ve never been caretaker like that or lost someone that close to me. Reading your story I think I would make many of the same mistakes. I didn’t even support my friends who went to grad school well until I went to grad school and finally got it.
posted by raccoon409 at 7:30 AM on May 24, 2022 [9 favorites]
This is one of those situations that caused me to ghost on a long-term friend and not regret it in the least. I'm not telling you to ghost on your friend, OP, but I'm just putting my story out there so that you know other people have dropped friendships because of how people relate to deaths.
There were three related incidents, all involving deaths.
My friend's mother was ill and wasn't expected to survive. This had been a long-term situation and I offered my friend tons of support over the years, in spite of the fact that her relationship with her mother was rocky at best. I had planned to take time off, go to the funeral, buy flowers, and do whatever she needed (although I never explicitly told her this as talking about funerals and arrangements wasn't something she was prepared to do). Also note, at the time, money was more than tight for me but I had a fund set aside just so I could pay funeral-related expenses.
In the meantime, my maternal grandmother died quite suddenly, and my friend (who also knew my mother) failed to really acknowledge the situation, the hard time I was having with things, or even express real condolences to my mother (let alone to me). My friend was not unaware of the fact that I'd be having issues, as it was a subject that was discussed more than once before the death occurred. I was resentful, but I figured that maybe my friend couldn't cope because of all of the stress that she was under with her mother.
Now, I should say, I wasn't my friend's best friend. We only met as young adults. She had another friend she had known since childhood. They were best friends, and I was fine with that. I was happy that she had a stable, long-term relationship like that in her life.
Her best friend's mother died. I was sorry to hear that, but I really had no relationship with friend's best friend. I did, however, email (or call--I can't remember which at this point) FBF and express my very sincere condolences. (Note, she never expressed hers for my loss, and yes I know a mother and a grandmother are not equivalent in society's eyes, but a loss is a loss.)
I thought that was the end of that situation, but out of the blue, my friend practically insisted that I take time off work to driver her to the funeral for FBF's mother. The funeral was happening way out of town--a good eight or nine hour drive, which really meant an overnight stay, and attending not just the funeral but the viewing, etc. Not only could I not afford that expense (time-wise and money-wise) and I really was not in the kind of head space where I wanted to be hanging out at a funeral or with a grieving family of strangers.
That request really irked me, but I didn't do anything about it. Friend was mad at me, but there was nothing I could really do. I said no, and apologized for being unable to help her.
Friend's mother finally died. As soon as friend called me, I dropped everything and headed straight to her place, so did FBF. We both consoled her. We helped he pick out her wardrobe for the funeral (which she hadn't planned at all). I essentially talked her through all of the next steps she'd need to take, including giving her some plans and strategies for coping with her brother (another person she had a rocky relationship with). She thanked me for being clear-headed and helpful, which was appreciated but so not necessary. She needed somebody there to help her get through some things and that's what friends do--help with what we can, when it's needed.
After that, however, friend started to get really weird. Yes, I know she was grieving, but she brought up my refusal to driver her to FBF funeral, and started ragging on me how I wasn't sorry enough about FBF's mother, and some other stuff seemingly unrelated stuff.
At that point, I decided I wasn't taking time off for friend's mother's funeral (which was also out of towns, but only a two-hour drive away--the kind of trip that I would normally make without thinking about it). I did, however, send some flowers. I called her afterwards, to make sure she was okay, but realistically, that was the end of the friendship. I let it fade and eventually just ghosted on her.
Yes, there was some other stuff going on in the background, but it's stuff I could have ignored or resolved. Those three deaths, however, cemented in my mind that friend would never really be there when I needed her and that I'd always be some kind of doormat to her. Enough was enough.
To this day, I'd bet my friend has no idea why I was so hurt and why I let the friendship fade. I'd bet good money she thinks I'm jealous of her (which I'm really not). I don't care, and while she tried (with minimal effort) to reach out a couple of times, none of those included the questions: "What happened between us? Why did you stop being my friend?" If they had, I would have explained the situation to her and maybe we could have rebuilt something of a relationship. Or maybe not.
OP, you have my deepest condolences and sympathies. I'm sorry you lost your parent, and I'm sorry your friend wasn't there for you. I know that is just hurt piling on top of hurt. I'm sorry you're going through that.
posted by sardonyx at 7:42 AM on May 24, 2022 [5 favorites]
There were three related incidents, all involving deaths.
My friend's mother was ill and wasn't expected to survive. This had been a long-term situation and I offered my friend tons of support over the years, in spite of the fact that her relationship with her mother was rocky at best. I had planned to take time off, go to the funeral, buy flowers, and do whatever she needed (although I never explicitly told her this as talking about funerals and arrangements wasn't something she was prepared to do). Also note, at the time, money was more than tight for me but I had a fund set aside just so I could pay funeral-related expenses.
In the meantime, my maternal grandmother died quite suddenly, and my friend (who also knew my mother) failed to really acknowledge the situation, the hard time I was having with things, or even express real condolences to my mother (let alone to me). My friend was not unaware of the fact that I'd be having issues, as it was a subject that was discussed more than once before the death occurred. I was resentful, but I figured that maybe my friend couldn't cope because of all of the stress that she was under with her mother.
Now, I should say, I wasn't my friend's best friend. We only met as young adults. She had another friend she had known since childhood. They were best friends, and I was fine with that. I was happy that she had a stable, long-term relationship like that in her life.
Her best friend's mother died. I was sorry to hear that, but I really had no relationship with friend's best friend. I did, however, email (or call--I can't remember which at this point) FBF and express my very sincere condolences. (Note, she never expressed hers for my loss, and yes I know a mother and a grandmother are not equivalent in society's eyes, but a loss is a loss.)
I thought that was the end of that situation, but out of the blue, my friend practically insisted that I take time off work to driver her to the funeral for FBF's mother. The funeral was happening way out of town--a good eight or nine hour drive, which really meant an overnight stay, and attending not just the funeral but the viewing, etc. Not only could I not afford that expense (time-wise and money-wise) and I really was not in the kind of head space where I wanted to be hanging out at a funeral or with a grieving family of strangers.
That request really irked me, but I didn't do anything about it. Friend was mad at me, but there was nothing I could really do. I said no, and apologized for being unable to help her.
Friend's mother finally died. As soon as friend called me, I dropped everything and headed straight to her place, so did FBF. We both consoled her. We helped he pick out her wardrobe for the funeral (which she hadn't planned at all). I essentially talked her through all of the next steps she'd need to take, including giving her some plans and strategies for coping with her brother (another person she had a rocky relationship with). She thanked me for being clear-headed and helpful, which was appreciated but so not necessary. She needed somebody there to help her get through some things and that's what friends do--help with what we can, when it's needed.
After that, however, friend started to get really weird. Yes, I know she was grieving, but she brought up my refusal to driver her to FBF funeral, and started ragging on me how I wasn't sorry enough about FBF's mother, and some other stuff seemingly unrelated stuff.
At that point, I decided I wasn't taking time off for friend's mother's funeral (which was also out of towns, but only a two-hour drive away--the kind of trip that I would normally make without thinking about it). I did, however, send some flowers. I called her afterwards, to make sure she was okay, but realistically, that was the end of the friendship. I let it fade and eventually just ghosted on her.
Yes, there was some other stuff going on in the background, but it's stuff I could have ignored or resolved. Those three deaths, however, cemented in my mind that friend would never really be there when I needed her and that I'd always be some kind of doormat to her. Enough was enough.
To this day, I'd bet my friend has no idea why I was so hurt and why I let the friendship fade. I'd bet good money she thinks I'm jealous of her (which I'm really not). I don't care, and while she tried (with minimal effort) to reach out a couple of times, none of those included the questions: "What happened between us? Why did you stop being my friend?" If they had, I would have explained the situation to her and maybe we could have rebuilt something of a relationship. Or maybe not.
OP, you have my deepest condolences and sympathies. I'm sorry you lost your parent, and I'm sorry your friend wasn't there for you. I know that is just hurt piling on top of hurt. I'm sorry you're going through that.
posted by sardonyx at 7:42 AM on May 24, 2022 [5 favorites]
My honest assessment of what you wrote is that this is someone who didn't know what you wanted to hear. Probably because they have never gone through this, they didn't know what people say or what people do. I too could see myself making all of the same mistakes. I have a friend dealing with a lot of hard stuff right now and I feel bad because I never know what to say either. Everything they said in trying to connect with you, you are dismissive of. But there was nothing objectively wrong about it, it just wasn't what you wanted.
You don't have to go back to being friends with them if you don't want to, but it might help you personally to forgive them for not knowing what they didn't know, and not think of it as a betrayal.
If you do want to try to repair the friendship I think getting together in person might help too.
posted by bleep at 7:49 AM on May 24, 2022 [16 favorites]
You don't have to go back to being friends with them if you don't want to, but it might help you personally to forgive them for not knowing what they didn't know, and not think of it as a betrayal.
If you do want to try to repair the friendship I think getting together in person might help too.
posted by bleep at 7:49 AM on May 24, 2022 [16 favorites]
I am of the opinion in most cases that various friends fill various niches in my life but never all of them and that's okay. I would have a hard time with a friend who was trying to stay engaged in the exact same way as "normal" during an experience like this to the point of not exactly acknowledging something's going on, but even then I know I have not always known what to do for other people myself and have probably done it not so great.
Like a lot of people here have experienced, a lot of times it's the ones you wouldn't expect who happen to know how to step up big when times require it. I also know I have been that person most in the oddest situations - like, people I have not been especially close to in years have a crisis and it was easier thanks to lack of closeness for me to figure out how bad it actually was, and jump in and do what needs to be done and not being so terribly worried about mis-stepping and upsetting the person.
But the one thing I have learned eventually is that at the end of the day, if you want support it comes a lot more easily if you can ask for it and at least point in a direction in which help would be useful. For me, my friends are all various kinds of weirdos and not all of us are highly emotionally adept but we DO care and we follow directions really well. I could absolutely reach out to a couple of friends (ideally ones I know won't be triggered by my situational details) and say hey can I put you in a little group chat where I can vent? I have friends I could text and say something real bad is happening can someone please come over. I've messaged friends saying I will come clean your house/entertain your kids for a couple hours/run interference with your terrible in-law, and I've had many say no so I dropped/ordered delivery snacks or coloring books on their porch.
I think if you're strongly feeling I should have gotten more support from this person, and it's a big enough deal to you that you're probably going to back away from the friendship over it, maybe do go ahead and try to have a conversation about it. I don't think friends should actually do this unless the stakes are that high, I think a major factor of adult relationships is letting stuff go because we can't expect them to be everything to us, but in the case of a long friendship you're upset about, it does seem like maybe getting some answers might really be a situation-fixer here if it actually is a case of "no idea how to handle" rather than "don't care, not even hiding it much". And if the answer is the latter, I guess at least you know and you don't have to wonder.
posted by Lyn Never at 7:50 AM on May 24, 2022 [4 favorites]
Like a lot of people here have experienced, a lot of times it's the ones you wouldn't expect who happen to know how to step up big when times require it. I also know I have been that person most in the oddest situations - like, people I have not been especially close to in years have a crisis and it was easier thanks to lack of closeness for me to figure out how bad it actually was, and jump in and do what needs to be done and not being so terribly worried about mis-stepping and upsetting the person.
But the one thing I have learned eventually is that at the end of the day, if you want support it comes a lot more easily if you can ask for it and at least point in a direction in which help would be useful. For me, my friends are all various kinds of weirdos and not all of us are highly emotionally adept but we DO care and we follow directions really well. I could absolutely reach out to a couple of friends (ideally ones I know won't be triggered by my situational details) and say hey can I put you in a little group chat where I can vent? I have friends I could text and say something real bad is happening can someone please come over. I've messaged friends saying I will come clean your house/entertain your kids for a couple hours/run interference with your terrible in-law, and I've had many say no so I dropped/ordered delivery snacks or coloring books on their porch.
I think if you're strongly feeling I should have gotten more support from this person, and it's a big enough deal to you that you're probably going to back away from the friendship over it, maybe do go ahead and try to have a conversation about it. I don't think friends should actually do this unless the stakes are that high, I think a major factor of adult relationships is letting stuff go because we can't expect them to be everything to us, but in the case of a long friendship you're upset about, it does seem like maybe getting some answers might really be a situation-fixer here if it actually is a case of "no idea how to handle" rather than "don't care, not even hiding it much". And if the answer is the latter, I guess at least you know and you don't have to wonder.
posted by Lyn Never at 7:50 AM on May 24, 2022 [4 favorites]
Just to add to the chorus that it's only once you go through a really big loss like this that you realise who is actually willing to show up and be there for you when things get real and ugly, and who is only there for the good times.
When my parent died I was shocked by the people who weren't there for me. People whom I'd thought would have my back. When I complained about this to a friend they said, "Maybe they just didn't know what to say. Maybe they felt awkward." It made me realise how much I personally would have appreciated even the most awkwardly expressed message over total silence. I've always remembered that, and I think that experience has made me better at showing up for others in their difficult times too.
But I did get solidarity and support from certain people I didn't know well or expect to be there for me. Sounds to me like you got support from quarters you did not expect, either.
Honestly what it sounds to me is that this friend of yours kind of wants things to be light and breezy all the time, and is trying to engage with you to get your interactions back to that plane that she feels comfortable with. You are grieving and angry and you do not need to engage with her in any way that makes you feel worse. You may not always feel this angry and hurt, but I do think it is something to remember and learn from. Maybe you don't necessarily stop talking with her, but you relegate her from 'true blue' friend to 'fun times only' friend.
I am so sorry for your loss. This is a profound and difficult time. I wish you comfort.
posted by unicorn chaser at 7:58 AM on May 24, 2022 [4 favorites]
When my parent died I was shocked by the people who weren't there for me. People whom I'd thought would have my back. When I complained about this to a friend they said, "Maybe they just didn't know what to say. Maybe they felt awkward." It made me realise how much I personally would have appreciated even the most awkwardly expressed message over total silence. I've always remembered that, and I think that experience has made me better at showing up for others in their difficult times too.
But I did get solidarity and support from certain people I didn't know well or expect to be there for me. Sounds to me like you got support from quarters you did not expect, either.
Honestly what it sounds to me is that this friend of yours kind of wants things to be light and breezy all the time, and is trying to engage with you to get your interactions back to that plane that she feels comfortable with. You are grieving and angry and you do not need to engage with her in any way that makes you feel worse. You may not always feel this angry and hurt, but I do think it is something to remember and learn from. Maybe you don't necessarily stop talking with her, but you relegate her from 'true blue' friend to 'fun times only' friend.
I am so sorry for your loss. This is a profound and difficult time. I wish you comfort.
posted by unicorn chaser at 7:58 AM on May 24, 2022 [4 favorites]
I am a person whose mother died (years ago now) and I still don't really know what kind of support you were looking for. It sounds different from what I needed. Personally I had lots of expectations around what my family would do, or my Mum's friends, but not my own friends! I wouldn't personally blame someone for not knowing what you needed, or for not being there if you (understandably) weren't in a place to ask for support directly.
posted by quacks like a duck at 8:15 AM on May 24, 2022 [14 favorites]
posted by quacks like a duck at 8:15 AM on May 24, 2022 [14 favorites]
She has never lost a parent or close family, but, still.
It's a good impulse to recognize this about your friend. As others have said, maybe she is doing the best she can from her pre-tragic vantage point—one that doesn't yet know how to grapple with loss at the scale of what you experienced. If you're in a Western (maybe especially American?) context, add to that our deep cultural aversion to death, and investment in keeping things light and comfy and surface-level. Sometimes it takes a face-to-face encounter with personal loss to really understand just how fucked up that expectation is.
Forgiving her for these mistakes, though, does not require that you keep her in your life. Maybe there are other solid reasons to let this friendship go, or scale it way back. Either way, the forgiveness is more about letting go for your sake, not hers.
posted by gold bridges at 8:19 AM on May 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
It's a good impulse to recognize this about your friend. As others have said, maybe she is doing the best she can from her pre-tragic vantage point—one that doesn't yet know how to grapple with loss at the scale of what you experienced. If you're in a Western (maybe especially American?) context, add to that our deep cultural aversion to death, and investment in keeping things light and comfy and surface-level. Sometimes it takes a face-to-face encounter with personal loss to really understand just how fucked up that expectation is.
Forgiving her for these mistakes, though, does not require that you keep her in your life. Maybe there are other solid reasons to let this friendship go, or scale it way back. Either way, the forgiveness is more about letting go for your sake, not hers.
posted by gold bridges at 8:19 AM on May 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
As others have said, some people just don't do well with death. I remember being disappointed in a friend of mine whose mother died, because shouldn't SHE of all people get it?! But...well. This one hasn't even lost anyone in her life, somehow, so she clearly doesn't get it.
When we speak, she asks how I am, but again, she doesn’t want to really hear.
Hah, my mother is doing that now and it's really pissing me off. It's a one-sided friendship there where she prattles on and you go "uh-huh, uh-huh," right?
Some people just can't be there all the way or all the way for you. Now you know what she's like. I'd either dial it back/lower my expectations of her/demote her to casual/fairweather friend, or well, ditch her if you like. As you say, she won't take criticism well, so there's no point in speaking up about how you feel. The hard part here is that she IS pursuing you and calling a lot and wanting to be her idea of close, which means either you be direct/mean or keep ducking her calls, and I'm not even sure which to advise you to do here. Maybe just say, "I'm really sad and depressed over my parent's death and I am just not able to be there for you when you need me to be, don't call me, I'll call you?"
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:26 AM on May 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
When we speak, she asks how I am, but again, she doesn’t want to really hear.
Hah, my mother is doing that now and it's really pissing me off. It's a one-sided friendship there where she prattles on and you go "uh-huh, uh-huh," right?
Some people just can't be there all the way or all the way for you. Now you know what she's like. I'd either dial it back/lower my expectations of her/demote her to casual/fairweather friend, or well, ditch her if you like. As you say, she won't take criticism well, so there's no point in speaking up about how you feel. The hard part here is that she IS pursuing you and calling a lot and wanting to be her idea of close, which means either you be direct/mean or keep ducking her calls, and I'm not even sure which to advise you to do here. Maybe just say, "I'm really sad and depressed over my parent's death and I am just not able to be there for you when you need me to be, don't call me, I'll call you?"
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:26 AM on May 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
This kind of thing is always super hard for me. I think it's because I'm an extremely relational person who loves to care for my loved ones in need but also to be honest about myself I am easily hurt if my loved ones aren't able or willing to provide a specific kind of reciprocal care for me. I've been through similar experiences through becoming a single parent and losing my own parents. Some people are not skilled or inclined at being attuned and generous caregivers.
My way has been to quietly reduce the intimacy of some friendships, and process my specific requests with a small select few. When asking someone to do something different, they can get defensive as you say, so I suggest thinking carefully about if you do have an ask, making it very specific and clear, but also examining what kind of friendship you want now, knowing more about who this person is.
I'm sorry, this sounds like a real loss and very hurtful to experience at this time in particular.
posted by latkes at 9:17 AM on May 24, 2022
My way has been to quietly reduce the intimacy of some friendships, and process my specific requests with a small select few. When asking someone to do something different, they can get defensive as you say, so I suggest thinking carefully about if you do have an ask, making it very specific and clear, but also examining what kind of friendship you want now, knowing more about who this person is.
I'm sorry, this sounds like a real loss and very hurtful to experience at this time in particular.
posted by latkes at 9:17 AM on May 24, 2022
I really love We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese's answers because implicit in your question (and a number of the answers here) is that there is a universal set of needs grieving people have, and so anyone's failure to provide those for a friend is evidence of carelessness. But people grieve all sorts of ways, particular in societies that are pretty bad, all told, with confronting death.
The closest person I've lost was a non-biological uncle (a close friend of my parents), and when he died all I wanted to do was sit alone in a room in cry - I didn't want to talk to anyone, and it took a lot of urging from my parents to call his son (a childhood friend of mine), because I just couldn't imagine getting through a conversation without breaking down. Suffice it to say, I'm not good at dealing with death myself, and I can see myself doing a lot of things your friend did/said, thinking all the time I was being helpful and supportive. For example, her remark "Thank you for letting me know" to me suggests an acknowledgement that she gets you have limited emotional bandwidth, and she's grateful you've spent some of it by reaching out to her.
If you don't feel like confronting her about how you're feeling, I'd just say "Hey friend, I'm honestly feeling overwhelmed with grief to the point that I don't feel like talking right now, let's circle back in a month." You don't have to make any decision about this friendship right now.
posted by coffeecat at 9:30 AM on May 24, 2022 [22 favorites]
The closest person I've lost was a non-biological uncle (a close friend of my parents), and when he died all I wanted to do was sit alone in a room in cry - I didn't want to talk to anyone, and it took a lot of urging from my parents to call his son (a childhood friend of mine), because I just couldn't imagine getting through a conversation without breaking down. Suffice it to say, I'm not good at dealing with death myself, and I can see myself doing a lot of things your friend did/said, thinking all the time I was being helpful and supportive. For example, her remark "Thank you for letting me know" to me suggests an acknowledgement that she gets you have limited emotional bandwidth, and she's grateful you've spent some of it by reaching out to her.
If you don't feel like confronting her about how you're feeling, I'd just say "Hey friend, I'm honestly feeling overwhelmed with grief to the point that I don't feel like talking right now, let's circle back in a month." You don't have to make any decision about this friendship right now.
posted by coffeecat at 9:30 AM on May 24, 2022 [22 favorites]
Some people are kind of clueless, some are a bit selfish, etc. I have moved away from really selfish people, and eliminated ones who really let me down, and one friend who I'd really supported bailed and ghosted me when my life took a hard turn. It's quite painful; and is a true loss. For you, this loss is on top of the exhaustion and grief of losing a parent. You can stay friends with someone who isn't there for you the way you want, but they become less close.
You might be ale to think about what you want from this friends and ask for it. It really helps me to talk about parent; could you listen for a bit?
posted by theora55 at 9:46 AM on May 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
You might be ale to think about what you want from this friends and ask for it. It really helps me to talk about parent; could you listen for a bit?
posted by theora55 at 9:46 AM on May 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
My honest assessment of what you wrote is that this is someone who didn't know what you wanted to hear. Probably because they have never gone through this, they didn't know what people say or what people do.
I actually have gone through this, and I still have no idea what people say or what people do. the people who were best & saintliest to me back then had not all experienced parental death themselves; they were just really good at talking to people. whereas people who had gone through the same thing were just as likely to avoid the subject out of pain, or to want to bond by reminiscing about what it was like for them.
though I was and remain grateful for the various saints, what I wanted most, at the time, was for someone to say something just blatantly fucking awful so that I could either yell at them or yell about them behind their backs. not everyone feels this way, I suppose. and I do not have the self-sacrificing courage to be this person for others. but once you go beyond concrete practical physical support, people simply do not want the same things in the same situations. it sounds to me like the inadequate friend either hates and fears talking about illness and death but worked herself up to checking in anyway, to be decent; or figured that a person going through something awful would want to be distracted, and tried to keep talking about normal life. either way it's fine to tell her she's wrong, but I don't think being wrong about these things means a person is insensitive or even careless of your feelings. they're just wrong.
posted by queenofbithynia at 9:47 AM on May 24, 2022 [13 favorites]
How well did your friend support you during the 20 years of your friendship up until now? You said that you've always been there for her for 20 years, and you've spent thousands of hours helping her. You did not mention how she treated you.
If she's been a thoughtful helpful friend for 20 years, and this incident was a surprising exception, you could try talking to her about it.
If it's been a mostly one-way street for 20 years, or she says glowing things ("we're best friends! I'll always be there for you!") but doesn't actually come through with her actions, then this sounds like the last straw. In that case, fade or ghost away!
Given what you said about her being unable to accept any criticism, it sounds like the latter (one-way friendship) is more likely.
posted by cheesecake at 12:16 PM on May 24, 2022 [4 favorites]
If she's been a thoughtful helpful friend for 20 years, and this incident was a surprising exception, you could try talking to her about it.
If it's been a mostly one-way street for 20 years, or she says glowing things ("we're best friends! I'll always be there for you!") but doesn't actually come through with her actions, then this sounds like the last straw. In that case, fade or ghost away!
Given what you said about her being unable to accept any criticism, it sounds like the latter (one-way friendship) is more likely.
posted by cheesecake at 12:16 PM on May 24, 2022 [4 favorites]
There’s a lot of pop culture stuff out there about the exact right manners to have when someone is sick or grieving - and some of it emphasizes a rather rigid notion of “boundaries” and ensuring you are not placing any burden on the bereaved by showing your own distress, being nosey, having opinions, etc. I know this can make me feel extremely awkward and stilted about how I communicate with a friend who has had a loss. Maybe your friend is the same - did not want to bother you?
posted by haptic_avenger at 1:37 PM on May 24, 2022 [8 favorites]
posted by haptic_avenger at 1:37 PM on May 24, 2022 [8 favorites]
I think this is an extremely common experience, and one I have had as well. I just try to accept that assigning value to people's responses isn't going to change anything. People have what they have to offer and that's it. Maybe her way of dealing with it would have been perfect for someone else! Even if we can say that she objectively does suck at dealing with grief, it's a pretty safe bet she doesn't suck on purpose.
If you're better off without them, you can end the friendship, but as I age I increasingly realize the value in keeping people in my life, so am more likely to just temper my expectations of them going forward.
posted by HotToddy at 2:10 PM on May 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
If you're better off without them, you can end the friendship, but as I age I increasingly realize the value in keeping people in my life, so am more likely to just temper my expectations of them going forward.
posted by HotToddy at 2:10 PM on May 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
I have been fretting a bit about whether I came across like you shouldn't feel disappointed or hurt by your friend's inability to help you in a meaningful way. You feel how you feel, and ESPECIALLY now, you are more than entitled to reserve your energy only for people who don't piss you the heck off!
My take comes in part from the fact that, as someone who has lost a parent and who is contending with serious health problems in the other parent, your friend's behaviors sound perfect to me. When I'm dealing with crap, I don't want to talk about my feelings. I HATE asking for tangible support, and when I receive it, I actually find it so overwhelming (positive! but overwhelming!) that it's hard for me to keep doing the stuff I need to do. Is this super healthy? Probably nah, but it is how it is.
That means that I've really had to learn and practice meeting other peoples' more "traditional" support needs. It goes against every instinct in me to send someone flowers ("what the fuck are they going to do with flowers? flowers don't cure cancer!") or ask for personal details about their loved one ("oh god I'd be so mortified if I knew people were talking about my diverticulitis"), or not deflect the hard stuff with jokes. The way I've learned to do these things is that my friends and family have said HEY, THIS IS NOT HELPING, I NEED [THIS].
Again, maybe your friend is just actually a total fucking asshole, and has no empathy, and come to think of it she doesn't even know your birthday or your middle name, what a selfish fuck! and you should cast her out into the sands. But maybe that isn't a conclusion you need to automatically draw, right away, when no doubt everything is just absolutely The Worst.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 2:10 PM on May 24, 2022 [9 favorites]
My take comes in part from the fact that, as someone who has lost a parent and who is contending with serious health problems in the other parent, your friend's behaviors sound perfect to me. When I'm dealing with crap, I don't want to talk about my feelings. I HATE asking for tangible support, and when I receive it, I actually find it so overwhelming (positive! but overwhelming!) that it's hard for me to keep doing the stuff I need to do. Is this super healthy? Probably nah, but it is how it is.
That means that I've really had to learn and practice meeting other peoples' more "traditional" support needs. It goes against every instinct in me to send someone flowers ("what the fuck are they going to do with flowers? flowers don't cure cancer!") or ask for personal details about their loved one ("oh god I'd be so mortified if I knew people were talking about my diverticulitis"), or not deflect the hard stuff with jokes. The way I've learned to do these things is that my friends and family have said HEY, THIS IS NOT HELPING, I NEED [THIS].
Again, maybe your friend is just actually a total fucking asshole, and has no empathy, and come to think of it she doesn't even know your birthday or your middle name, what a selfish fuck! and you should cast her out into the sands. But maybe that isn't a conclusion you need to automatically draw, right away, when no doubt everything is just absolutely The Worst.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 2:10 PM on May 24, 2022 [9 favorites]
I’m really sorry you’re going through this, and I’m sorry for your loss.
I will also say though…I think you two are just talking past each other. If you want to cast this as a failure on her part, you’re certainly allowed to, but this reads so differently to me.
“When I shared that I was having a hard time she’d change the subject and ask me things like “When do you think you will go back home?” or “Are you on leave or taking vacation time?”…. I didn’t want to pour out my heart or expect everything to be about my family situation, but I did expect some genuine care and concern.”
Those questions sound like genuine concern to me — if they rang hollow to you, again, fine, but those aren’t on their face offensive questions or somehow anti-support.
“Her response was “thank you for letting me know” which I thought was odd.”
I’ve been hearing “thank you for telling me that” as a blanket response to all unexpected information, and I’ve also heard in various corners of the internet that saying “I’m sorry” when someone tells you someone died is BAD because then they reflexively respond “it’s okay,” which they then regret or feel ashamed about. Is it possible to read this as clumsy rather than mean-spirited?
“She did not send flowers or even a card. (However, she loves to bring me pricey, unnecessary gifts out of the blue on other non-occasions.)”
In my group of friends this would be considered MORE supportive, MORE personal and more attentive.
She wants to see you, but according to you, that’s not “showing up.” She wants to literally show up!
I say all this NOT to pile on your hurt or anger, but to suggest that perhaps this awful miasma of grief has altered your perspective. If you want to ditch her forever, go for it, but is it possible she wasn’t sure what to do, you never told her directly what you wanted, so she guessed, but she guessed wrong? And now you guys have to very different stories in your heads, and it’s hard to bridge that gap.
posted by Charity Garfein at 7:16 PM on May 24, 2022 [8 favorites]
I will also say though…I think you two are just talking past each other. If you want to cast this as a failure on her part, you’re certainly allowed to, but this reads so differently to me.
“When I shared that I was having a hard time she’d change the subject and ask me things like “When do you think you will go back home?” or “Are you on leave or taking vacation time?”…. I didn’t want to pour out my heart or expect everything to be about my family situation, but I did expect some genuine care and concern.”
Those questions sound like genuine concern to me — if they rang hollow to you, again, fine, but those aren’t on their face offensive questions or somehow anti-support.
“Her response was “thank you for letting me know” which I thought was odd.”
I’ve been hearing “thank you for telling me that” as a blanket response to all unexpected information, and I’ve also heard in various corners of the internet that saying “I’m sorry” when someone tells you someone died is BAD because then they reflexively respond “it’s okay,” which they then regret or feel ashamed about. Is it possible to read this as clumsy rather than mean-spirited?
“She did not send flowers or even a card. (However, she loves to bring me pricey, unnecessary gifts out of the blue on other non-occasions.)”
In my group of friends this would be considered MORE supportive, MORE personal and more attentive.
She wants to see you, but according to you, that’s not “showing up.” She wants to literally show up!
I say all this NOT to pile on your hurt or anger, but to suggest that perhaps this awful miasma of grief has altered your perspective. If you want to ditch her forever, go for it, but is it possible she wasn’t sure what to do, you never told her directly what you wanted, so she guessed, but she guessed wrong? And now you guys have to very different stories in your heads, and it’s hard to bridge that gap.
posted by Charity Garfein at 7:16 PM on May 24, 2022 [8 favorites]
I recently went through something that feels somewhat similar to this. A very close friend disappointed me in a very hurtful way after the death of my parent. I wrote a long email to them, detailing how their actions made me feel and how they seemed from my perspective. I told them that I understood that their intentions were not to hurt me, yet I was hurt by their actions all the same. I knew that if I let it go without addressing it, the disappointment and pain would stay with me and hurt the friendship.
This friend responded in an ideal manner. They took the time to actually hear what I was saying without getting defensive or making excuses. They apologized and assured me that they would be more thoughtful. No ghost of disappointment remains. If this person is very close to you, I think it would be good for both of you to have a heart to heart about it. Their reaction will tell you what you need to know about the friendship.
posted by quince at 8:12 PM on May 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
This friend responded in an ideal manner. They took the time to actually hear what I was saying without getting defensive or making excuses. They apologized and assured me that they would be more thoughtful. No ghost of disappointment remains. If this person is very close to you, I think it would be good for both of you to have a heart to heart about it. Their reaction will tell you what you need to know about the friendship.
posted by quince at 8:12 PM on May 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
Huh basically this exact same thing just happened to me. I am about a year ahead of you.
When my father was dying 18 months ago, my very close friend of 20+ years was super helpful and lovely, but right after he died she basically emotionally ghosted me. Like in your case, my friend would ask how I was doing, but it was obvious she didn't want a real answer. She definitely did not want to sit and talk. It felt like there was some element of discomfort/awkwardness, but also, she just did not want to do it. She had other things she wanted to do more. Ughhh.
I didn't address it with her because I didn't see the point. It was clear that I wanted support, it is clear that giving support is the job of intimate friends, and she just .. chose not to do it. What is there to say about that?
it's possible that part of what you liked about the relationship in the past was the belief—now disproven—that she would be a comfort to you in hypothetical, future hard times.
This is how I feel.
What is the point of a close friend if they can’t show up when times are tough?
And this too.
I had guessed that maybe I was converting some of my grief about my dad's death into anger targeting [anybody], so I gave myself some time to see if my bad feelings about my friend would fade. They've lessened, but they're definitely still there. Like, I am still carrying around in my head a list of post-death grievances, like 'that time she said something dismissive about one of my father's belongings' or 'that time she changed the subject when I mentioned him.'
At this point, it's hard for me to imagine us ever being intimate friends again. Like, maybe we can be 'fun' friends, but it's hard for me to imagine anything more than that.
It might play out differently for you but FWIW this was my experience. I'm really sorry about your parent, and I hope you're doing okay.
posted by Susan PG at 9:17 PM on May 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
When my father was dying 18 months ago, my very close friend of 20+ years was super helpful and lovely, but right after he died she basically emotionally ghosted me. Like in your case, my friend would ask how I was doing, but it was obvious she didn't want a real answer. She definitely did not want to sit and talk. It felt like there was some element of discomfort/awkwardness, but also, she just did not want to do it. She had other things she wanted to do more. Ughhh.
I didn't address it with her because I didn't see the point. It was clear that I wanted support, it is clear that giving support is the job of intimate friends, and she just .. chose not to do it. What is there to say about that?
it's possible that part of what you liked about the relationship in the past was the belief—now disproven—that she would be a comfort to you in hypothetical, future hard times.
This is how I feel.
What is the point of a close friend if they can’t show up when times are tough?
And this too.
I had guessed that maybe I was converting some of my grief about my dad's death into anger targeting [anybody], so I gave myself some time to see if my bad feelings about my friend would fade. They've lessened, but they're definitely still there. Like, I am still carrying around in my head a list of post-death grievances, like 'that time she said something dismissive about one of my father's belongings' or 'that time she changed the subject when I mentioned him.'
At this point, it's hard for me to imagine us ever being intimate friends again. Like, maybe we can be 'fun' friends, but it's hard for me to imagine anything more than that.
It might play out differently for you but FWIW this was my experience. I'm really sorry about your parent, and I hope you're doing okay.
posted by Susan PG at 9:17 PM on May 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
Mod note: From the OP:
Thank you all for reading and responding to my post. It is helpful to hear all of the perspectives. At this point, the comments that resonate most are those suggesting I dial back the level of the friendship and reassess later on. I think that is what I have been doing, to some extent, although not communicating that to her. It's all still relatively recent, so perhaps my feelings will change, but a part of me feels fundamentally different about her now and I don't know that it will change later on. We have been friends since college, perhaps this is a natural fork in the road. But I don't believe in blowing up relationships, so I will likely just keep contact much less frequent and superficial than in the past. But I will leave the door open.posted by taz (staff) at 10:08 PM on May 24, 2022 [6 favorites]
Also, several folks said they didn't understand what would have made me feel supported. I understand this is subjective, but I feel the things I needed and expected were pretty standard. A couple of examples:
1. I needed her to acknowledge my feelings when I said I was having a hard time or parent was back in the hospital, not change the subject to something else completely. It happened multiple times. Again, I have listened to her talk about her feelings and affirmed them for hours, for weeks and months on end, when she has gone through tough times. Other friends didn't need to be told. They sincerely inquired, listened to the response and acknowledge the difficulty. We also talked about their lives, what was going on in the world, sports etc. I don't think I was looking for something extraordinary.
2. I expected her to acknowledge the service and let me know she could not come. Again, customary. A few people actually asked if she was coming or cited her absence. I knew she probably wasn't coming, but, say something. This event is a big deal for me and is a big deal, generally in our shared culture. And frankly, I expected her to send flowers. No, we didn't need them, but it is a very standard custom in our culture. She had no financial or logistic barrier to doing so. Not even a card. My trivia group sent a card.
3. I need her to stop acting like things are back to normal- asking me for work favors or wanting to plan a summer trip. If she would actually listen, she would know that I am not in that frame of mind, at all.
Again, I appreciate the comments. Thank you.
Yeah, I see a lot of responses noting that some people are just bad in these high-stakes consolation times, and a lot noting that she might've had no idea what support ideally looked like, for you. I'd agree that both those things are true, and add that some people are avoidant personalities, and ill-equipped to hear about sad things and feelings.
And for sure, not every friend has to fill every need.
I just want to push back on all that, and say that if you believe a friend at a certain level of closeness can be expected to provide a certain level of support, it doesn't matter whether you're 'right' -- you get to be friends with who you want, based on any or no reasons. You're not 'wrong' to feel let down by this woman, and if you're not interested in maintaining the friendship, I think everyone who's responded seems to agree that you have that right. She disappointed you deeply at a time when you needed the opposite, and you don't need to make heroic efforts to overcome the resultant feelings.
posted by troywestfield at 3:51 PM on May 26, 2022 [3 favorites]
And for sure, not every friend has to fill every need.
I just want to push back on all that, and say that if you believe a friend at a certain level of closeness can be expected to provide a certain level of support, it doesn't matter whether you're 'right' -- you get to be friends with who you want, based on any or no reasons. You're not 'wrong' to feel let down by this woman, and if you're not interested in maintaining the friendship, I think everyone who's responded seems to agree that you have that right. She disappointed you deeply at a time when you needed the opposite, and you don't need to make heroic efforts to overcome the resultant feelings.
posted by troywestfield at 3:51 PM on May 26, 2022 [3 favorites]
I started hitting big griefs pretty early in life. You bet very few of my friends had any idea how to be a friend, and I had no idea even what to ask for or what to expect. In retrospect, maybe that was a blessing. The result was, I accepted gratefully whatever they could give me. Now I am older, and I have been the bad friend too. There have been so many times when I've been conscious that I wish I could have done something differently or more, but I didn't.
Maybe you will never ever ever be the person who cannot give everything that your friend wants of you. But I doubt it.
If you are not able to love her and be her friend as she is, for now, then that's that. Very few friendships maintain a consistent intimacy and intensity throughout a lifetime.
But I think that the sense of grievance and blame isn't really helpful, and could actually be self-destructive to you in the future and in the bigger picture.
posted by Salamandrous at 6:53 AM on May 27, 2022 [1 favorite]
Maybe you will never ever ever be the person who cannot give everything that your friend wants of you. But I doubt it.
If you are not able to love her and be her friend as she is, for now, then that's that. Very few friendships maintain a consistent intimacy and intensity throughout a lifetime.
But I think that the sense of grievance and blame isn't really helpful, and could actually be self-destructive to you in the future and in the bigger picture.
posted by Salamandrous at 6:53 AM on May 27, 2022 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
However, you have also been profoundly affected by you parent’s death. It’s only been a few months. You are aware that you’re still recovering from the trauma, but also it would be a form of denial to expect to ever be back to how you were before. Things will most likely be better than they are right now but also you will have changed as a person. And maybe who you will be is not someone who is as close to your long time friend as you were before. That is okay and not something to feel bad about. The friends who came through for you and made you feel supported are people who have shown themselves to be the right people to be your friends as the person you are now, and that’s wonderful and worth nurturing and putting energy into.
I stopped speaking to and visiting some longtime friends of the family after a loved one died and they didn’t once ask me how I was doing while I was staying with them, and did some other truly alienating things. It’s been years and I think I am finally getting to the point where I can visit them again and not immediately rip their heads off because of how rejected they made me feel. If I had been closer to them and thought more highly of them than I did (I liked them fine and they are generous, interesting, curious people for the most part, but sometimes spectacularly selfish and obtuse) I suspect I would have tried reaching out sooner. I’m sure that as soon as I reach out to them they will be happy to see me, and they don’t appear to have a clue about how mad I was, or honestly still kind of am. The other issue here is that we are not peers, really. We are all adults but they are almost a generation older than me and have known me since I was a teen. There are some power dynamics going on that aren’t there in your situation.
I think that your complex emotions about your friend’s lack of support during this whole time is really an expression of grief. You’re going to change and feel differently about many things as you work through things, and your friendship with this person is one of those things. Maybe once you have had a few more months to process your loss, you will find that the energy your friend brings will be a good fit for who you will be. Maybe not! But it’s not something you need to decide right now. Be clear and tell her that you aren’t up for regular chats and calls yet. That you still need a lot of time and are still processing. She needs to respect that. If she refuses, there’s your clear answer.
posted by Mizu at 4:29 AM on May 24, 2022 [10 favorites]