What can I do to help my friend's kids? CW: csa
February 18, 2024 8:34 PM Subscribe
This was me
Or do I need to just leave it alone?
My friend is in continual denial with little spots of wake-up calls, but doesn't really open up to me, and so I don't know how I can help.
Our children have not played together in awhile so we have just been texting and talking on the phone a lot and occasional walks during work.
CW: csa
At this point in time, we are not talking. They ended it with : it's insane that you're making this about your feelings. Which, yes I was, but I'm so tired of being my friend's sounding board but without boundaries.
She told me that her child's therapist thinks a drawing their child did could represent an SA. We had a previous texting conversation about it. Where I was supportive and listening.
But they didn't show me the pic at that time. Then the other night without asking if it was an ok time to show me the pic, they sent the image with no explanation.
I was taken aback by the picture and responded, Oh wow. She texted me,"I sent it." I said I saw it. and then I asked "do you want my thoughts?" And she said "not now I'm going to workout." So i said ok. Bu after t 6 minutes I felt so mad that again she had dumped something on me with out asking if it was a good time. So I texted here: next time please ask if this is a good time and also if you can't talk to me about it please don't send it. And she said yeah sure share your thoughts. and then she got mad at me after I shared my thoughts.
This is about many things. 1. our friendship. I feel done with it. 2. The safety of her kids. 3. The safety of my kids and the fact that my child just made a valentine's present for the younger one and it made me feel sad that I have to cut this family off, but I don't see anything changing from 8 months ago! And that they are supposed to come to my child's bday party in a few weeks but now I don't know if they should be there.
Her kid is supposed to be getting more support at school. Getting suspended sometimes. Having lots of struggles. So i feel for them and want to be there for support. But I'm at the end of my rope because she's in so much denial even when the therapist says she thinks something has happened my friend says she thinks its nothing.
The professionals i guess are already alerted but then she complains that she isn't getting anywhere and that it's their job to help her kid and their not. And i get that. It sounds very frustrating. But then she doesnt' take accountability for her end of things. She's just a permissive parent until her kid does something bad and then she is screaming at them and giving them so much anxiety.
I'm so tired of being around this and not being able to help her change because she doesn't want to. And then lashes out at me when I'm so scared that someone has CSA her child.
At this point she was the one she said "I don't want to talk about this Good night" and she stopped texting. There's nothing I can do. Calling CPS will do nothing because her kid clams up and wont' even talk to his own therapist about anything. I tried my best to be a good role model for the kids but when I'm not around I can't be and when her kid constantly hurts my kids I can't anymore. She doesn't agree with her younger child and my child having separate play dates even though they were friends first. My child is an only and her children are not.
What would you do in this situation? What have you done when you have been in similar situations? I know that denial is normal around CSA but the whole time I've known my friend for almost 3 years she's been in denial around everything and I'm so scared for her kids. The children are invited to my child's upcoming bday party and I don't know if I should disinvite them at this point. Or just assume they won't show up on their own accord.
CW: csa
At this point in time, we are not talking. They ended it with : it's insane that you're making this about your feelings. Which, yes I was, but I'm so tired of being my friend's sounding board but without boundaries.
She told me that her child's therapist thinks a drawing their child did could represent an SA. We had a previous texting conversation about it. Where I was supportive and listening.
But they didn't show me the pic at that time. Then the other night without asking if it was an ok time to show me the pic, they sent the image with no explanation.
I was taken aback by the picture and responded, Oh wow. She texted me,"I sent it." I said I saw it. and then I asked "do you want my thoughts?" And she said "not now I'm going to workout." So i said ok. Bu after t 6 minutes I felt so mad that again she had dumped something on me with out asking if it was a good time. So I texted here: next time please ask if this is a good time and also if you can't talk to me about it please don't send it. And she said yeah sure share your thoughts. and then she got mad at me after I shared my thoughts.
This is about many things. 1. our friendship. I feel done with it. 2. The safety of her kids. 3. The safety of my kids and the fact that my child just made a valentine's present for the younger one and it made me feel sad that I have to cut this family off, but I don't see anything changing from 8 months ago! And that they are supposed to come to my child's bday party in a few weeks but now I don't know if they should be there.
Her kid is supposed to be getting more support at school. Getting suspended sometimes. Having lots of struggles. So i feel for them and want to be there for support. But I'm at the end of my rope because she's in so much denial even when the therapist says she thinks something has happened my friend says she thinks its nothing.
The professionals i guess are already alerted but then she complains that she isn't getting anywhere and that it's their job to help her kid and their not. And i get that. It sounds very frustrating. But then she doesnt' take accountability for her end of things. She's just a permissive parent until her kid does something bad and then she is screaming at them and giving them so much anxiety.
I'm so tired of being around this and not being able to help her change because she doesn't want to. And then lashes out at me when I'm so scared that someone has CSA her child.
At this point she was the one she said "I don't want to talk about this Good night" and she stopped texting. There's nothing I can do. Calling CPS will do nothing because her kid clams up and wont' even talk to his own therapist about anything. I tried my best to be a good role model for the kids but when I'm not around I can't be and when her kid constantly hurts my kids I can't anymore. She doesn't agree with her younger child and my child having separate play dates even though they were friends first. My child is an only and her children are not.
What would you do in this situation? What have you done when you have been in similar situations? I know that denial is normal around CSA but the whole time I've known my friend for almost 3 years she's been in denial around everything and I'm so scared for her kids. The children are invited to my child's upcoming bday party and I don't know if I should disinvite them at this point. Or just assume they won't show up on their own accord.
Leave it alone. Your friend is in the middle of a _nightmare_ situation, and you cannot expect anything from them. Nor can you do anything that the therapist/teachers cannot.
Don't disinvite these kids. Make sure the party is well-supervised given the acting out behaviour you've experienced (they're kindergarteners, it should be closely supervised no matter what. My kid was a little overenthusiastic with another kid at school recently and received a whopper of a bite in return - shit happens, be there and watch closely).
Stop expecting support/reciprocity from a parent who is drowning. Support from a distance if you're able to do so without expecting anything, slow fade if you're not.
posted by stray at 9:32 PM on February 18 [13 favorites]
Don't disinvite these kids. Make sure the party is well-supervised given the acting out behaviour you've experienced (they're kindergarteners, it should be closely supervised no matter what. My kid was a little overenthusiastic with another kid at school recently and received a whopper of a bite in return - shit happens, be there and watch closely).
Stop expecting support/reciprocity from a parent who is drowning. Support from a distance if you're able to do so without expecting anything, slow fade if you're not.
posted by stray at 9:32 PM on February 18 [13 favorites]
Child-child SA is really really tough because you have an abuser/victim as well as a victim, and it's very difficult to balance everyone's needs while protecting all the children. Your friend may be in denial right now because she's not doing things the way you think they should be handled, but you also say the kid has a therapist, the school is informed - that's a lot more than most kids get unfortunately. She hasn't pulled him out of therapy and she is coming to terms with one of the most difficult things to happen with kids, some kind of possible CSA.
She sounds difficult and exhausting, but I would set strong boundaries like you are doing which is great! and then try to give some grace in staying in contact. Talking about your child's CSA is incredibly vulnerable and shaming. She's not doing it very well but - it really is just so hard. I have heard from people in her position, I have had difficult conversations on that scale and so hard. It is literally easier to discuss childhood cancer.
Invite the kids to the party and supervise them. I would not be okay with any unsupervised play time, but if you can have one-to-one playdates that are really supervised, it is a gift. However, not if it puts your children at risk.
If you can stay in touch - once a week a walk and no texts maybe? that's a real gift, but I understand it's very hard. If you can't stay in touch, please don't blame and shame her. Say that you don't have the resources to give her the support she needs and you hope the very best for her family and that it's you saying no, not because you disapprove of her or her parenting.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 10:07 PM on February 18 [7 favorites]
She sounds difficult and exhausting, but I would set strong boundaries like you are doing which is great! and then try to give some grace in staying in contact. Talking about your child's CSA is incredibly vulnerable and shaming. She's not doing it very well but - it really is just so hard. I have heard from people in her position, I have had difficult conversations on that scale and so hard. It is literally easier to discuss childhood cancer.
Invite the kids to the party and supervise them. I would not be okay with any unsupervised play time, but if you can have one-to-one playdates that are really supervised, it is a gift. However, not if it puts your children at risk.
If you can stay in touch - once a week a walk and no texts maybe? that's a real gift, but I understand it's very hard. If you can't stay in touch, please don't blame and shame her. Say that you don't have the resources to give her the support she needs and you hope the very best for her family and that it's you saying no, not because you disapprove of her or her parenting.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 10:07 PM on February 18 [7 favorites]
You need to contact CPS and share the drawing and the info regarding it, because you have no real confidence she's actually doing something useful.
And you absolutely must not allow your child(ren) to be alone with her children or even in a situation where you are present but might accidentally remove your eyes for a moment. You cannot trust her to supervise in any way.
After you've done what you can by reporting her seeming lack of appropriate action, if keeping your children safe means that you must completely withdraw from her, do so.
This is not going to get better. Based on your description, it's going to get an awful lot worse.
It's 2:30 am and I'm not up to typing in public about why I'm so certain on that, though I'd discuss it with you via memail if you wished (in the daytime).
posted by stormyteal at 2:24 AM on February 19 [3 favorites]
And you absolutely must not allow your child(ren) to be alone with her children or even in a situation where you are present but might accidentally remove your eyes for a moment. You cannot trust her to supervise in any way.
After you've done what you can by reporting her seeming lack of appropriate action, if keeping your children safe means that you must completely withdraw from her, do so.
This is not going to get better. Based on your description, it's going to get an awful lot worse.
It's 2:30 am and I'm not up to typing in public about why I'm so certain on that, though I'd discuss it with you via memail if you wished (in the daytime).
posted by stormyteal at 2:24 AM on February 19 [3 favorites]
How does this friendship make you feel? You've posted about it several times, and it sounds like neither of you is really getting or giving the support you need and that you both at times struggle to either articulate or observe your own and one another's boundaries. You both think the other is handling their life and parenting situations incorrectly and neither of you is receptive to that input. It doesn't sound like anyone is having a great time.
I think that if the school and a therapist are involved, you don't have any additional role here. Your friend can't decide whether she wants you to butt out entirely or be there as a sounding board whenever she feels like it, but has said she doesn't want advice. If that is a comfortable place for you to be, you could continue the friendship with the understanding that unless they explicitly ask for help, you're just a listener. It is also entirely appropriate for you to ask that checking in before sharing sensitive or heavy information be standard practice. Personally I would not keep putting a lot of energy into this friendship for numerous reasons but you're really the only one that can make that call.
posted by wormtales at 12:38 PM on February 19 [2 favorites]
I think that if the school and a therapist are involved, you don't have any additional role here. Your friend can't decide whether she wants you to butt out entirely or be there as a sounding board whenever she feels like it, but has said she doesn't want advice. If that is a comfortable place for you to be, you could continue the friendship with the understanding that unless they explicitly ask for help, you're just a listener. It is also entirely appropriate for you to ask that checking in before sharing sensitive or heavy information be standard practice. Personally I would not keep putting a lot of energy into this friendship for numerous reasons but you're really the only one that can make that call.
posted by wormtales at 12:38 PM on February 19 [2 favorites]
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One thing to keep in mind is that you can take a step back, reduce or stop engaging with this friend and their family, take a break and it doesn't have to be permanent. I can point to many examples in my own life of picking friendships back up after some time apart/away (although without so much drama/heartache). You can always decide to reconcile in the future.
From what you describe there doesn't seem to be equal reciprocity. You're supposed to be there for your friend whenever it's convenient for her and on her terms, but you don't get the same in return. Of course we only have your side of things, so there is probably some nuance. But whatever else is going on, you're not feeling reciprocity and that's contributing to your feelings of resentment here. Those are good reasons to step back.
As for the kids. In the immediate near term, I wouldn't disinvite anyone from a birthday. The kids shouldn't be punished for the parent's failings. At the very least, let them have this appointment. While it sounds like there are mandatory reporters paying attention to your friend's kid, it might not hurt to have another adult looking out for them. I don't know how you or your kids are connected. If it's through school, maybe there's a way to keep an eye on things or maintain some contact (albeit) much less than currently between you and the other kids so you can be assured that someone is looking out for your friend's kids. You certainly don't need to put your child in any situation where they may get hurt (that's a dealbreaker for sure), so no play dates or other activities.
posted by brookeb at 9:18 PM on February 18 [3 favorites]