How normal is it not to be passionate about/a fan of anything?
February 2, 2024 1:05 AM Subscribe
To be clear, I’m not talking about anhedonia or depressive disinterest, just that while I enjoy a lot of things, I’m not interested – and never have been – in what I call passion “homework”, nor do I find any of the things I enjoy particularly important to my sense of self-identity. This seems abnormal when I talk to others.
To give examples: even as a teen I wasn’t a ‘fan’ of any particular music or band. There was stuff I liked listening to, but I was never interested in details about the band’s likes or birthdays, I didn’t track when their next album was out, I probably only listened to the released singles, I never cared much about going to see a band live, if they split up I wasn’t particularly upset. There was always something else I liked too.
Ditto films, sport, books, any form of culture. There’s stuff I liked, but if you took it away it wouldn’t be a big deal.
This does not mean I don’t enjoy doing things, I just… like doing them superficially? Non-exclusively? Like I absolutely love walking by the seaside, and doing a bit of beachcombing. But I have zero interest in reading books about mudlarking or researching my finds to ID them, or paying attention to tide time to get there at the ‘best’ time to find stuff. I just like… pottering about.
The only thing I feel I really do any “homework” for is food – I love eating out & trying new foods so I do follow the local food scene on social media & read a fair bit of non-fiction writing about food/listen to podcasts. I am sad when a favourite restaurant folds. But at the same time I have zero desire to work or be involved in the food scene in any way, and I don’t have particularly strong opinions about food – to the point that I find a lot of the conversations about whether this or that is ‘authentic’ or what should go on a pizza about the most tedious sort of talk you can have & actively avoid it. I am an ambivalent home cook, and I am not interested in chef biographies etc. If you offered me $1000 to never read a cooking substack again, I’d happily take it & not feel impoverished.
Is this common? The more I talk to people about it the stranger it seems – mostly in terms of people asking “what do you like doing/what’s your favourite X” – I know this is an attempt to create connections by asking someone to represent themselves in shorthand but I genuinely find it almost impossible to do (not least because people seem to assume that if I say I’m interested in X I have that deep interest that includes wanting to read books about it or go to a festival about it or see a video about it etc).
To give examples: even as a teen I wasn’t a ‘fan’ of any particular music or band. There was stuff I liked listening to, but I was never interested in details about the band’s likes or birthdays, I didn’t track when their next album was out, I probably only listened to the released singles, I never cared much about going to see a band live, if they split up I wasn’t particularly upset. There was always something else I liked too.
Ditto films, sport, books, any form of culture. There’s stuff I liked, but if you took it away it wouldn’t be a big deal.
This does not mean I don’t enjoy doing things, I just… like doing them superficially? Non-exclusively? Like I absolutely love walking by the seaside, and doing a bit of beachcombing. But I have zero interest in reading books about mudlarking or researching my finds to ID them, or paying attention to tide time to get there at the ‘best’ time to find stuff. I just like… pottering about.
The only thing I feel I really do any “homework” for is food – I love eating out & trying new foods so I do follow the local food scene on social media & read a fair bit of non-fiction writing about food/listen to podcasts. I am sad when a favourite restaurant folds. But at the same time I have zero desire to work or be involved in the food scene in any way, and I don’t have particularly strong opinions about food – to the point that I find a lot of the conversations about whether this or that is ‘authentic’ or what should go on a pizza about the most tedious sort of talk you can have & actively avoid it. I am an ambivalent home cook, and I am not interested in chef biographies etc. If you offered me $1000 to never read a cooking substack again, I’d happily take it & not feel impoverished.
Is this common? The more I talk to people about it the stranger it seems – mostly in terms of people asking “what do you like doing/what’s your favourite X” – I know this is an attempt to create connections by asking someone to represent themselves in shorthand but I genuinely find it almost impossible to do (not least because people seem to assume that if I say I’m interested in X I have that deep interest that includes wanting to read books about it or go to a festival about it or see a video about it etc).
Lately it seems that extreme fandom has become an acceptable identity to have, where previously this might have been religion or patriotism. And a lot of people use this as a quick/cheap/easy way to give themselves an identity. I think this is more about capitalism than anything. It's very easy to make money off of people who conflate their identity with a commercial endeavor.
posted by Polychrome at 1:46 AM on February 2, 2024 [30 favorites]
posted by Polychrome at 1:46 AM on February 2, 2024 [30 favorites]
Most people I know are like you! Seems pretty normal to me, especially as people get older and have busy jobs and families and don't have the time for intense interests.
There's a reason that there's a stereotype of people on dating sites saying that they like watching TV and going for long walks on the beach.
Definitely there's a subset of people who get laser focused on some particular interest (some of those people are autistic). If you hang out in places that attract more people who are like this, then you might get the impression that they're the majority, but I really don't think they are.
posted by quacks like a duck at 1:59 AM on February 2, 2024 [7 favorites]
There's a reason that there's a stereotype of people on dating sites saying that they like watching TV and going for long walks on the beach.
Definitely there's a subset of people who get laser focused on some particular interest (some of those people are autistic). If you hang out in places that attract more people who are like this, then you might get the impression that they're the majority, but I really don't think they are.
posted by quacks like a duck at 1:59 AM on February 2, 2024 [7 favorites]
You and me, both; and we're surely within the normal range. The Delphic idea / advice Μηδὲν ἄγαν = nothing in excess has been around for a long time. Ne quid nimis is you prefer to defend yourself in Latin.
posted by BobTheScientist at 2:02 AM on February 2, 2024 [3 favorites]
posted by BobTheScientist at 2:02 AM on February 2, 2024 [3 favorites]
I have many interests and hobbies and no passion for any single one. Aside from when I was a teen and pretended to have very strong opinions about boy bands from peer pressure, it has not mattered.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 2:13 AM on February 2, 2024 [2 favorites]
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 2:13 AM on February 2, 2024 [2 favorites]
I refer to this as "not being a joiner." I don't think it's a bad thing.
posted by pullayup at 2:35 AM on February 2, 2024 [5 favorites]
posted by pullayup at 2:35 AM on February 2, 2024 [5 favorites]
The more I talk to people about it the stranger it seems
You know that old parable about the travellers, one of whom reports that the town they've just come from is full of complete arseholes who would rip you off soon as look at you, and the other who says that they all seem like fine upstanding people?
What they don't tell you about the ending is that the guy talking to those travellers then went to that town, and had his wallet jacked within five minutes by the second traveller's cousin. Sometimes it really is everybody else who is just fucking weird.
Would happily join you in an aimless potter along the shoreline any time, if you'd enjoy having somebody share that.
posted by flabdablet at 2:38 AM on February 2, 2024 [3 favorites]
You know that old parable about the travellers, one of whom reports that the town they've just come from is full of complete arseholes who would rip you off soon as look at you, and the other who says that they all seem like fine upstanding people?
What they don't tell you about the ending is that the guy talking to those travellers then went to that town, and had his wallet jacked within five minutes by the second traveller's cousin. Sometimes it really is everybody else who is just fucking weird.
Would happily join you in an aimless potter along the shoreline any time, if you'd enjoy having somebody share that.
posted by flabdablet at 2:38 AM on February 2, 2024 [3 favorites]
Your relationship to the things you like is historically normative. The phenomenon you describe is one of many ways in which the internet has curdled people’s brains, both the internet as a social organizing tool and the internet as a finely tuned shopping mall. The majority of people the world over do not live their passion, promote their personal brand, or lean into a fandom as a be-all end-all identity. When one talks to people who aren’t “very online,” one encounters far, far fewer people who lean into fandoms. Yes, obviously there have always been people who engage with things as you describe, long before the internet, but our particular moment elevates the visibility of the phenomenon, not least because people who go hard tend to be more marketable and make for better entertainment than people who happily go along liking things.
posted by cupcakeninja at 2:48 AM on February 2, 2024 [5 favorites]
posted by cupcakeninja at 2:48 AM on February 2, 2024 [5 favorites]
Definitely within the range of normal! A term you might find helpful is “generalist”. You know a little bit about a lot of things.
Intense interest or passion is heightened in our culture for a bunch of reasons. One is capitalism; fans will spend crazy money on objectively useless stuff (I say about myself) so people are incentivized to create a narrative about how great it is to really get into whatever it is they are spending time on.
Another reason is identity, a sort of twofold thing. On one hand we are interacting with more people than ever before due to ease of communication and that means it’s harder than ever to stick out and being “that guy who is really into [thing]” is a common way to introduce yourself to others. On the other hand as it becomes easier to stay in our little bubbles online and sometimes in real life, smaller innocuous things about us take on outsized importance because everyone is trying to be different despite all bubbling together for cultural/social/political/etc reasons. So you get groups of people who all seem identical to an outsider but each one is like “no I’m nothing like Nancy, she is obsessed with Hugh Dancy. I’m obsessed with Hugh Grant!”
There are I’m sure many other reasons for this skewed perspective than what I list above but it is certainly a thing I’ve noticed cropping up in the past twenty years or so. Because of how my brain works I get a sort of double whammy of focused interest and passion - I have a fair few life long special interests that wax and wane as they become simpler or more difficult to indulge in, but I also have intense obsession with certain things for somewhere between two to five months and then I drop it and barely think of it again. Suffice to say I am also a generalist but it’s because of my many, many, many fixations and not because of an ability to just casually experience things like you. I am jealous. But also as this part of my personality thrust me into nerd and geek circles practically from birth I’ve seen the cultural change happening in real time. People used to be able to be normal about stuff (not me but I’m profoundly not normal) and now a normal person like you is having trouble seeing themselves as normal. Wild!
posted by Mizu at 2:51 AM on February 2, 2024 [1 favorite]
Intense interest or passion is heightened in our culture for a bunch of reasons. One is capitalism; fans will spend crazy money on objectively useless stuff (I say about myself) so people are incentivized to create a narrative about how great it is to really get into whatever it is they are spending time on.
Another reason is identity, a sort of twofold thing. On one hand we are interacting with more people than ever before due to ease of communication and that means it’s harder than ever to stick out and being “that guy who is really into [thing]” is a common way to introduce yourself to others. On the other hand as it becomes easier to stay in our little bubbles online and sometimes in real life, smaller innocuous things about us take on outsized importance because everyone is trying to be different despite all bubbling together for cultural/social/political/etc reasons. So you get groups of people who all seem identical to an outsider but each one is like “no I’m nothing like Nancy, she is obsessed with Hugh Dancy. I’m obsessed with Hugh Grant!”
There are I’m sure many other reasons for this skewed perspective than what I list above but it is certainly a thing I’ve noticed cropping up in the past twenty years or so. Because of how my brain works I get a sort of double whammy of focused interest and passion - I have a fair few life long special interests that wax and wane as they become simpler or more difficult to indulge in, but I also have intense obsession with certain things for somewhere between two to five months and then I drop it and barely think of it again. Suffice to say I am also a generalist but it’s because of my many, many, many fixations and not because of an ability to just casually experience things like you. I am jealous. But also as this part of my personality thrust me into nerd and geek circles practically from birth I’ve seen the cultural change happening in real time. People used to be able to be normal about stuff (not me but I’m profoundly not normal) and now a normal person like you is having trouble seeing themselves as normal. Wild!
posted by Mizu at 2:51 AM on February 2, 2024 [1 favorite]
people asking “what do you like doing/what’s your favourite X” – I know this is an attempt to create connections by asking someone to represent themselves in shorthand but I genuinely find it almost impossible to do (not least because people seem to assume that if I say I’m interested in X I have that deep interest that includes wanting to read books about it or go to a festival about it or see a video about it etc
I don't know about the people you interact with - you might be reading them completely correctly. That said, I've been asked "what do you like doing" a million times, and I've taken it as an attempt to create connection, sure (or just a way to make obligatory small talk for a few minutes) but as a request to represent myself in shorthand. When I ask people that question, it's also either to connect or to pass the time. I might follow up with "oh, you like X? Did you know about the X festival next week?" or "I heard there's this great TV show about X" or "do you do X a lot" or whatever, but it's not because I actually expect you to be doing those things - more that I'm not the most amazing conversationalist and those are the ways I can think of to expand the conversation. If you took the conversation in the direction of "nah, it's just something I like, not like a capital-H Hobby. Do you ever feel like these days being Super Into things is a thing, instead of just kind of liking stuff?" I would be just as happy (and probably more interested) as I would be if you started telling me all about the X blogs you read and X conventions you go to - because my purpose is conversation or getting to know you, that's all. In most cases, I don't actually care about X or have any expectations about your relationship to X.
But! If I needed to get you a gift for whatever reason, I might get you something X-related, because it's supposed to be nice to get/give gifts that are somehow individualized and since that's a thing I know about you it might seem like a potential fit. I personally have been given various gifts over the years related to some X I like or that people think I like, and often they're things that go deeper into X than I have any interest in, and I do sometimes get the feeling you're talking about where it's like guys, I just think X is cool in a low-key way, now I feel this pressure to read this book you gave me about it or hang up this X-related decoration or whatever and I don't want to and don't want you to have the wrong idea about me and X. But I think that feeling of pressure is something I'm generating , and the situation is less that they think I'm super into X or should be more deeply into X, and more that X is a thing they know about me so they're just trying to make the most of that knowledge.
tl;dr there's a possibility that you may be misreading at least some people as passionate superfans shipping you and X, rather than people just kind of vaguely interested in or aware of you and X, who are just trying to extend a conversation or whatever.
posted by trig at 3:55 AM on February 2, 2024 [1 favorite]
I don't know about the people you interact with - you might be reading them completely correctly. That said, I've been asked "what do you like doing" a million times, and I've taken it as an attempt to create connection, sure (or just a way to make obligatory small talk for a few minutes) but as a request to represent myself in shorthand. When I ask people that question, it's also either to connect or to pass the time. I might follow up with "oh, you like X? Did you know about the X festival next week?" or "I heard there's this great TV show about X" or "do you do X a lot" or whatever, but it's not because I actually expect you to be doing those things - more that I'm not the most amazing conversationalist and those are the ways I can think of to expand the conversation. If you took the conversation in the direction of "nah, it's just something I like, not like a capital-H Hobby. Do you ever feel like these days being Super Into things is a thing, instead of just kind of liking stuff?" I would be just as happy (and probably more interested) as I would be if you started telling me all about the X blogs you read and X conventions you go to - because my purpose is conversation or getting to know you, that's all. In most cases, I don't actually care about X or have any expectations about your relationship to X.
But! If I needed to get you a gift for whatever reason, I might get you something X-related, because it's supposed to be nice to get/give gifts that are somehow individualized and since that's a thing I know about you it might seem like a potential fit. I personally have been given various gifts over the years related to some X I like or that people think I like, and often they're things that go deeper into X than I have any interest in, and I do sometimes get the feeling you're talking about where it's like guys, I just think X is cool in a low-key way, now I feel this pressure to read this book you gave me about it or hang up this X-related decoration or whatever and I don't want to and don't want you to have the wrong idea about me and X. But I think that feeling of pressure is something I'm generating , and the situation is less that they think I'm super into X or should be more deeply into X, and more that X is a thing they know about me so they're just trying to make the most of that knowledge.
tl;dr there's a possibility that you may be misreading at least some people as passionate superfans shipping you and X, rather than people just kind of vaguely interested in or aware of you and X, who are just trying to extend a conversation or whatever.
posted by trig at 3:55 AM on February 2, 2024 [1 favorite]
I would point out that you do have a passion, because you flat-out said what it is here:
The only thing I feel I really do any “homework” for is food – I love eating out & trying new foods so I do follow the local food scene on social media & read a fair bit of non-fiction writing about food/listen to podcasts. I am sad when a favourite restaurant folds. But at the same time I have zero desire to work or be involved in the food scene in any way, and I don’t have particularly strong opinions about food – to the point that I find a lot of the conversations about whether this or that is ‘authentic’ or what should go on a pizza about the most tedious sort of talk you can have & actively avoid it.
The fact that you don't want to become a chef or a restaurateur is irrelevant. The people who freak out about bands don't all want to become musicians, you know? They just are super-into Band X. Just like it sounds like you're really into food.
And there are degrees of passion. You don't have to be a fervent all-or-nothing X-is-my-life fan of a thing - you can be a "yeah, I really like it but it doesn't, like, take the place of my having to have a job or anything". In fact, the majority of people are like that - maybe when they were teenagers they were super-into a band, but then they grew up and had kids and adult responsibilities, and they're no longer able to ditch work and go stay out late at a concert or go follow the band on tour or whatever.
You're fine.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:00 AM on February 2, 2024 [17 favorites]
The only thing I feel I really do any “homework” for is food – I love eating out & trying new foods so I do follow the local food scene on social media & read a fair bit of non-fiction writing about food/listen to podcasts. I am sad when a favourite restaurant folds. But at the same time I have zero desire to work or be involved in the food scene in any way, and I don’t have particularly strong opinions about food – to the point that I find a lot of the conversations about whether this or that is ‘authentic’ or what should go on a pizza about the most tedious sort of talk you can have & actively avoid it.
The fact that you don't want to become a chef or a restaurateur is irrelevant. The people who freak out about bands don't all want to become musicians, you know? They just are super-into Band X. Just like it sounds like you're really into food.
And there are degrees of passion. You don't have to be a fervent all-or-nothing X-is-my-life fan of a thing - you can be a "yeah, I really like it but it doesn't, like, take the place of my having to have a job or anything". In fact, the majority of people are like that - maybe when they were teenagers they were super-into a band, but then they grew up and had kids and adult responsibilities, and they're no longer able to ditch work and go stay out late at a concert or go follow the band on tour or whatever.
You're fine.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:00 AM on February 2, 2024 [17 favorites]
but as a request to represent myself in shorthand
...that should be "never as a request"
posted by trig at 4:01 AM on February 2, 2024 [1 favorite]
...that should be "never as a request"
posted by trig at 4:01 AM on February 2, 2024 [1 favorite]
You are really into food. The way you are into it is different from how some other fans are into it, but you love novelty in your food experiences. You are low-key into a lot of other things.
It is easier than it used to be to learn a lot about an area of interest and find related stuff to dive into. Generally such activity doesn't feel like homework in the sense of forced studying in order to learn a subject per someone else's set curriculum. It feels to them the way that learning more about new restaurants or how to cook sauces well at home has felt to you.
posted by brainwane at 4:41 AM on February 2, 2024 [1 favorite]
It is easier than it used to be to learn a lot about an area of interest and find related stuff to dive into. Generally such activity doesn't feel like homework in the sense of forced studying in order to learn a subject per someone else's set curriculum. It feels to them the way that learning more about new restaurants or how to cook sauces well at home has felt to you.
posted by brainwane at 4:41 AM on February 2, 2024 [1 favorite]
Speaking as someone who does have a series she's a bit over the line about... you're fine. 100% absolutely totally fine.
posted by humbug at 4:53 AM on February 2, 2024
posted by humbug at 4:53 AM on February 2, 2024
The internet is really well-set-up to encourage single-topic conversation - it's a great way to get a bunch of people who don't necessarily have anything else in common to have a perfectly nice time together. I think that's why it seems so overwhelmingly common these days. But in reality, most people are not Extremely Online and the range of intensity in their interests is wide. You're totally fine.
posted by restless_nomad at 5:09 AM on February 2, 2024 [5 favorites]
posted by restless_nomad at 5:09 AM on February 2, 2024 [5 favorites]
I'm pretty in to some bands but I give zero fucks about those people as people. Same for books/authors, similar for video games. I don't do much tv or movies.
Anyway, I think you're conflating 'passion' with 'parasocial relationships'. That's the thing where people really care and get invested in the people, and want to talk a lot about eg what T Swift is wearing or who she's boffing, etc.
I think you'll get a better understanding if you consider yourself not interested in parasocial relationships with celebrities and perhaps reading about why some people are.
posted by SaltySalticid at 5:10 AM on February 2, 2024 [3 favorites]
Anyway, I think you're conflating 'passion' with 'parasocial relationships'. That's the thing where people really care and get invested in the people, and want to talk a lot about eg what T Swift is wearing or who she's boffing, etc.
I think you'll get a better understanding if you consider yourself not interested in parasocial relationships with celebrities and perhaps reading about why some people are.
posted by SaltySalticid at 5:10 AM on February 2, 2024 [3 favorites]
I do have a couple of passions, although I'm not as passionate about them as I could be - I'm interested in science fiction, for instance, but I don't want to go to conventions, rarely pre-order books, don't listen to SF podcasts, etc.
My thought is that when people ask what I'm interested in or what I like to do, they're not really looking for big truth claims about who I am - they're certainly not getting any! If they follow up with, "oh, did you watch SHOW", I respond with "I don't watch a lot of TV but it does sound interesting, have you seen it" and kick the conversational ball around a bit that way. I'm not even likely to be especially interested in the show, but I am kind of interested in what they think of it.
It's possible that your particular social sphere puts you in contact only with people who will literally think it's weird if you're not into mudlarking and IDing your finds on the internet even though you like walking on the beach and looking out for cool stuff if there's any around. But probably even if you meet a mudlark, the best conversational outcome is going to be "you say some stuff here and there about your favorite beach walks, they talk abut mudlarking, you ask them about their biggest finds".
I also think it's okay to fib a little bit if you're in that kind of social situation - obviously you don't want to misrepresent yourself in any grand way, but there's nothing wrong with feigning a little more interest in cooking shows than you really feel if that will move the conversation along.
On a side note, I think people can develop passions later in life - I read a bunch of SF as a kid and a teen, but I didn't really get seriously interested in the sense of "I am curious about SFnal history and have books about it" until my thirties. Sometimes you just sort of mooch along in life and only after you've, by coincidence, read something or done something a lot do you develop an intense interest in it. There's no rule that you have to have been fascinated by watercolor painting or the zither since you could walk.
posted by Frowner at 5:40 AM on February 2, 2024 [1 favorite]
My thought is that when people ask what I'm interested in or what I like to do, they're not really looking for big truth claims about who I am - they're certainly not getting any! If they follow up with, "oh, did you watch SHOW", I respond with "I don't watch a lot of TV but it does sound interesting, have you seen it" and kick the conversational ball around a bit that way. I'm not even likely to be especially interested in the show, but I am kind of interested in what they think of it.
It's possible that your particular social sphere puts you in contact only with people who will literally think it's weird if you're not into mudlarking and IDing your finds on the internet even though you like walking on the beach and looking out for cool stuff if there's any around. But probably even if you meet a mudlark, the best conversational outcome is going to be "you say some stuff here and there about your favorite beach walks, they talk abut mudlarking, you ask them about their biggest finds".
I also think it's okay to fib a little bit if you're in that kind of social situation - obviously you don't want to misrepresent yourself in any grand way, but there's nothing wrong with feigning a little more interest in cooking shows than you really feel if that will move the conversation along.
On a side note, I think people can develop passions later in life - I read a bunch of SF as a kid and a teen, but I didn't really get seriously interested in the sense of "I am curious about SFnal history and have books about it" until my thirties. Sometimes you just sort of mooch along in life and only after you've, by coincidence, read something or done something a lot do you develop an intense interest in it. There's no rule that you have to have been fascinated by watercolor painting or the zither since you could walk.
posted by Frowner at 5:40 AM on February 2, 2024 [1 favorite]
This sounds normal to me. I’ve got a lot of things I’m enthusiastic about, but none of them would get me out of bed at 5AM on a Saturday except travel, and that’s a logistical thing.
I think you may be getting some selection bias as one common aspect of fans — short for fanatics — is that they just won’t shut up about whatever it is.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 5:43 AM on February 2, 2024 [2 favorites]
I think you may be getting some selection bias as one common aspect of fans — short for fanatics — is that they just won’t shut up about whatever it is.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 5:43 AM on February 2, 2024 [2 favorites]
I don't think there's anything wrong with you, but there's nothing wrong with passion, either. It's not crazy when other people read a whole book about something.
posted by zompist at 5:47 AM on February 2, 2024 [1 favorite]
posted by zompist at 5:47 AM on February 2, 2024 [1 favorite]
mostly in terms of people asking “what do you like doing/what’s your favourite X” – I know this is an attempt to create connections by asking someone to represent themselves in shorthand but I genuinely find it almost impossible to do
The only time this ever really comes up for me is in a work context. Not sure about you. E.g. for people I need to be friendly with, but who I never want to be close with. I say:
"Oh I'm a bit of a dilettante, I like to be just a little involved in a whole lot of stuff. Just recently I [something benign and medium interesting you can say in 10 words or less]."
It's unusual that anyone actually cares what your answer is here, they mostly just want to know THAT you are socially capable of answering, and won't be a weird grump to work with.
(Also, the most common response I get to my "I'm a dilettante" line is "what's a dilettante" and then I get to say "oh lol yeah I guess one of those things I like to do is learn $5 words no one uses anymore" and give a self deprecating shrug. I find that obnoxious but people seem to find it funny so I keep saying it.)
posted by phunniemee at 5:58 AM on February 2, 2024 [4 favorites]
The only time this ever really comes up for me is in a work context. Not sure about you. E.g. for people I need to be friendly with, but who I never want to be close with. I say:
"Oh I'm a bit of a dilettante, I like to be just a little involved in a whole lot of stuff. Just recently I [something benign and medium interesting you can say in 10 words or less]."
It's unusual that anyone actually cares what your answer is here, they mostly just want to know THAT you are socially capable of answering, and won't be a weird grump to work with.
(Also, the most common response I get to my "I'm a dilettante" line is "what's a dilettante" and then I get to say "oh lol yeah I guess one of those things I like to do is learn $5 words no one uses anymore" and give a self deprecating shrug. I find that obnoxious but people seem to find it funny so I keep saying it.)
posted by phunniemee at 5:58 AM on February 2, 2024 [4 favorites]
I would reframe this positively as you enjoying several things with a healthy degree of interest that does not veer into obsessiveness. Keep enjoying what you enjoy, that’s great! Especially in this age of information overload. Not all of us need to be subject matter experts or know every single thing there is to know about our hobbies. We all get to curate the amount of information we consume and can decide for ourselves how much we want to know about any given thing.
posted by pandanpanda at 6:50 AM on February 2, 2024 [1 favorite]
posted by pandanpanda at 6:50 AM on February 2, 2024 [1 favorite]
You don't have to do passion research into why you don't do passion research. Just ignore people, is my solution to this nonsense. I can't tell you how many times I've been encouraged to expend energy caring about some permutation of, "your consumer choices tell a story about you." Okay. So does my star sign. But I'm not reading these stories because I don't give a shit.
posted by Don Pepino at 7:22 AM on February 2, 2024
posted by Don Pepino at 7:22 AM on February 2, 2024
Best answer: Ha! I was going to say that I could have asked this same question for a long time, and then dug into my history AND I DID ASK IT.
It turned out for me that I was also pretty depressed, but once I got less depressed I still didn't become a tunnel-vision passionate obsessive about anything.
I like baking the way you like food (I actually also like food the way you like food). As in, quite a lot! But always somehow "not enough" or "not as much" as people who made it their whole lives. And I had a lot of friends who were Music Dudes who needed to know the 4th string recording engineer on any album that ever existed. My ex once said he felt like I'd "misrepresented myself" because I'd said I was "into baking" but didn't bake as constantly/obsessively as he assumed that meant.
Often, younger people are very concerned, consciously and subconsciously, with creating their identities and establishing their place in the pecking order. A hard way to put yourself at the top is to be the best -- so skilled at some thing, or some way of being. An easier way to put yourself in the top of the order is to know the most and so that's where a lot of people land. And it's also common when you're younger to worry a lot and compare yourself a lot to someone who is actually doing a pretty different thing from you, and feel inferior.
Anyway I got older and made some new friends and it turns out it is pretty normal to have a moderate-to-high level of interest in something without wanting to dedicate your entire life and self to it. It's also pretty normal to have a ridiculously passionate interest in something while still being able to talk to people who aren't that way. Sure, sometimes I still feel insecure talking about baking with my friend who is a professional baker. But she doesn't actually judge me for not being a professional, that would be nuts, I have a whole other different job!
You say that people are just trying to forge a connection with you; I'd say lean into it. Be authentic in your response! If they're just trying to one-up someone it'll fizzle out. But a lot of people will be just fine with your answer.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 7:44 AM on February 2, 2024 [11 favorites]
It turned out for me that I was also pretty depressed, but once I got less depressed I still didn't become a tunnel-vision passionate obsessive about anything.
I like baking the way you like food (I actually also like food the way you like food). As in, quite a lot! But always somehow "not enough" or "not as much" as people who made it their whole lives. And I had a lot of friends who were Music Dudes who needed to know the 4th string recording engineer on any album that ever existed. My ex once said he felt like I'd "misrepresented myself" because I'd said I was "into baking" but didn't bake as constantly/obsessively as he assumed that meant.
Often, younger people are very concerned, consciously and subconsciously, with creating their identities and establishing their place in the pecking order. A hard way to put yourself at the top is to be the best -- so skilled at some thing, or some way of being. An easier way to put yourself in the top of the order is to know the most and so that's where a lot of people land. And it's also common when you're younger to worry a lot and compare yourself a lot to someone who is actually doing a pretty different thing from you, and feel inferior.
Anyway I got older and made some new friends and it turns out it is pretty normal to have a moderate-to-high level of interest in something without wanting to dedicate your entire life and self to it. It's also pretty normal to have a ridiculously passionate interest in something while still being able to talk to people who aren't that way. Sure, sometimes I still feel insecure talking about baking with my friend who is a professional baker. But she doesn't actually judge me for not being a professional, that would be nuts, I have a whole other different job!
You say that people are just trying to forge a connection with you; I'd say lean into it. Be authentic in your response! If they're just trying to one-up someone it'll fizzle out. But a lot of people will be just fine with your answer.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 7:44 AM on February 2, 2024 [11 favorites]
My word for this is "dabbler". I dip into and out of things as I'm moved to do so. What I like or am even touched deeply by one day/week/month isn't necessarily relevant to where I am/what I'm thinking about/drawn to the next. At this point in my life I largely accept and enjoy this way of being, but there are definitely some cultural narratives I've had to sort through re: the value placed on specialization and expertise vs. being a jack of all trades. There was a lot of self-helpy/Tim Ferriss-flavored content out there banging the passion drum well before whatever the recent trend towards extreme fandom is, and I think it served people with more naturally passionate personalities but was also built on a false premise that this one way of being was the best way and that everyone could or should aspire to it. That's long been a turnoff for me, as is the thing where naming your favorites is meant to telegraph What Kind of Person You Are- thankfully, beyond my 20s I have encountered the latter only infrequently.
posted by wormtales at 7:48 AM on February 2, 2024 [3 favorites]
posted by wormtales at 7:48 AM on February 2, 2024 [3 favorites]
I find it very weird that interests and hobbies are used as signifiers of identity.
(Maybe not, because ongoing relationships with a balanced give and take over time are proving challenging for people to maintain, given low emotional bandwidth and high stress, plus people at a certain age might be more mobile for career purposes, so sure having a brand of sorts might be helpful for making connections or remembering people. But it’s sad AF if you ask me.)
People have different temperaments and personalities. Some people get really excited about things, others are more low key and easygoing. Some people have strong preferences and aversions, others don’t, that’s fine and normal.
You live according to your values, you have a particular history and relationships, you have goals (small or big and even without that you have inherent value as a person). You don’t lack an identity just because you’re not into cowprint or disco or w/e.
posted by cotton dress sock at 8:37 AM on February 2, 2024
(Maybe not, because ongoing relationships with a balanced give and take over time are proving challenging for people to maintain, given low emotional bandwidth and high stress, plus people at a certain age might be more mobile for career purposes, so sure having a brand of sorts might be helpful for making connections or remembering people. But it’s sad AF if you ask me.)
People have different temperaments and personalities. Some people get really excited about things, others are more low key and easygoing. Some people have strong preferences and aversions, others don’t, that’s fine and normal.
You live according to your values, you have a particular history and relationships, you have goals (small or big and even without that you have inherent value as a person). You don’t lack an identity just because you’re not into cowprint or disco or w/e.
posted by cotton dress sock at 8:37 AM on February 2, 2024
You're fine. There's no need to be obsessed about anything. Such bullshit is just part of the times we live in.
posted by Thorzdad at 9:36 AM on February 2, 2024 [2 favorites]
posted by Thorzdad at 9:36 AM on February 2, 2024 [2 favorites]
As I read your self-description, I thought about myself and I could pretty much move a few of the nouns around and we'd be samsies. You know, switch out "food" for "football", that's pretty much me. I know what music I like but I don't even know how people know who is in a band.
I also think you probably left out certain things you are more deeply invested in, but you just don't count because you don't use the signifiers of fandom (exhaustive research, deep dive knowledge, professed passion.) For me, (maybe this applies to you?) I read a lot of fiction, and I love it, and I am happy its part of my life. But I don't do all the homework to know bestsellers or award winners or care too much about the oeuvre of a particular writer or tell my friends about my love of fiction. Still, I think I'd quality, in some definition, as a "fan" of fiction.
posted by RajahKing at 9:47 AM on February 2, 2024 [1 favorite]
I also think you probably left out certain things you are more deeply invested in, but you just don't count because you don't use the signifiers of fandom (exhaustive research, deep dive knowledge, professed passion.) For me, (maybe this applies to you?) I read a lot of fiction, and I love it, and I am happy its part of my life. But I don't do all the homework to know bestsellers or award winners or care too much about the oeuvre of a particular writer or tell my friends about my love of fiction. Still, I think I'd quality, in some definition, as a "fan" of fiction.
posted by RajahKing at 9:47 AM on February 2, 2024 [1 favorite]
Most people I know are like you!
Me too! At a very basic level, if you're spending time delving into your interests (vs obsessions) online, you're likely to come across a lot of people who are a lot more intensely involved than you, as demonstrated by the fact that they curate blogs or websites on the subject, are often the most frequent posters on the hobby site, etc.. The vast majority of casual participants are probably a lot more like you than them, but you don't hear from them because, well, they're like you.
It's the same in-person, too. The people who make something a part of their identity are the ones who let you know that, whereas the ones who just enjoy something casually don't have much to talk about.
posted by rpfields at 10:26 AM on February 2, 2024 [1 favorite]
Me too! At a very basic level, if you're spending time delving into your interests (vs obsessions) online, you're likely to come across a lot of people who are a lot more intensely involved than you, as demonstrated by the fact that they curate blogs or websites on the subject, are often the most frequent posters on the hobby site, etc.. The vast majority of casual participants are probably a lot more like you than them, but you don't hear from them because, well, they're like you.
It's the same in-person, too. The people who make something a part of their identity are the ones who let you know that, whereas the ones who just enjoy something casually don't have much to talk about.
posted by rpfields at 10:26 AM on February 2, 2024 [1 favorite]
AHAhahah I just realized I am more like you (and many others in this thread). I recently went to a Depeche Mode concert and realized after the fact that while I have thoroughly enjoyed DM's music in my youth, and really dug a lot of the tracks on the most recent album Memento Mori, I only knew Andy Fletcher's name because he had passed away so recently, only learned Dave Gahan's name in the past few months and had absolutely no idea what Martin Gore looked like and didn't recognize his voice in concert so I kept squinting at the stage muttering, who the hell is that rando with the bleached hair? The intense fandom that can form around music is befuddling to me. I really like music! I still make mix cds! If I was in casual conversation with a true lifelong Depeche Mode fan I'd feel a bit sheepish but also I'm in my 40s so no biggie.
I wonder if this aligns with the psychological split of Satisficing vs Optimizing. I am very much a satisficier in my decisionmaking.
posted by spamandkimchi at 10:33 AM on February 2, 2024 [4 favorites]
I wonder if this aligns with the psychological split of Satisficing vs Optimizing. I am very much a satisficier in my decisionmaking.
posted by spamandkimchi at 10:33 AM on February 2, 2024 [4 favorites]
I wonder if this aligns with the psychological split of Satisficing vs Optimizing. I am very much a satisficier in my decisionmaking.
^ I'm inclined to wonder about this also! I am also very much a satisficer overall. The ex I mentioned in my previous answer was an extreme optimizer and also a haver of very obsessive hobbies. In my current life I can think of two people in particular who deeply love a particular sport and do know a lot about it, and whom I'd also say are split along optimizer/satisficer lines - and their differences around their shared interest also track to that, with the optimizer having turned it into a second part-time job and organizing international travel around it.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 10:48 AM on February 2, 2024 [2 favorites]
^ I'm inclined to wonder about this also! I am also very much a satisficer overall. The ex I mentioned in my previous answer was an extreme optimizer and also a haver of very obsessive hobbies. In my current life I can think of two people in particular who deeply love a particular sport and do know a lot about it, and whom I'd also say are split along optimizer/satisficer lines - and their differences around their shared interest also track to that, with the optimizer having turned it into a second part-time job and organizing international travel around it.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 10:48 AM on February 2, 2024 [2 favorites]
Yeah, you're fine, you're normal. Like, you do have an interest/fandom/hobby, and it's food, and the way you engage in that interest is fine and normal, it's just maybe not one of the two major "modes" of fandom/hobby, which broadly speaking, tend to break down into curatorial fandom and transformative fandom. Curatorial fandom tends to be interested in cataloging, discussing, collecting, memorizing, gathering information, etc, and transformative fandom tends to be interested in making new stuff out of/about the interest, analysis, challenging it, creative pursuits, etc. These terms are generally more applicable to media fandoms (i.e., comics, games, etc.), but I think they fit with others to some degree too. Like, for your food example, curatorial fandom for that would be collecting all those chef bios and having a list of Michelin restaurants to go to, and transformative fandom would be cooking and baking a lot yourself, tweaking recipes, etc. You're not entirely in either of those camps, and that's fine, I'd wager most people fall somewhere in the middle for their interests/hobbies.
But at the same time I have zero desire to work or be involved in the food scene in any way
I feel like it's maybe at least partly capitalism damage that leads people to assume that a hobby/interest means you want to or should make some kind of hustle/job out of it, or be creative about it. Feel free to ignore that expectation, lol. But I will say that for a lot of people, their fandom/hobby is just as much about the community around it as it is about the thing itself, and that may be part of what people are trying to do when they discuss your interests with you. (Also, as others have noted, it can just plain be about trying to make polite conversation.) That you're not all that interested in the community aspects of fandoms and hobbies seems fine and normal to me.
As an additional data point, some of us do the prototypical fandom/hobby stuff about some things, and don't about others! Like, I'm like you when it comes to near total disinterest in my favorite musicians' personal lives or really anything other than their music. I have very little investment in them on a personal level, and only care about interviews/whatever to the extent they're about the artistic process. While I do enjoy seeing them live, I won't go to any significant effort or trouble to do so. Every album they put out might as well be their last, and I'm pleasantly surprised whenever a new one is released, but I won't be, like, upset or enraged if a new one doesn't appear or if a new album isn't to my taste. I cast a wide and shallow net when it comes to music, listening across a lot of genres but not deeply in any single one. But! I'm also in media fandom! I read and write fan fiction, I'll discuss shows/books with like-minded fans, I seek out others' discussion and analysis.
People contain multitudes, is the point. Some of us will go all in on a hobby, whatever that means to us, and some of us will just continue to be a more or less casual enjoyer, and some of us will be both at the same time about different things. You're going to hear more from the people who go all in, because they're all in. The casual enjoyers will continue casually enjoying, more or less quietly.
posted by yasaman at 11:03 AM on February 2, 2024
But at the same time I have zero desire to work or be involved in the food scene in any way
I feel like it's maybe at least partly capitalism damage that leads people to assume that a hobby/interest means you want to or should make some kind of hustle/job out of it, or be creative about it. Feel free to ignore that expectation, lol. But I will say that for a lot of people, their fandom/hobby is just as much about the community around it as it is about the thing itself, and that may be part of what people are trying to do when they discuss your interests with you. (Also, as others have noted, it can just plain be about trying to make polite conversation.) That you're not all that interested in the community aspects of fandoms and hobbies seems fine and normal to me.
As an additional data point, some of us do the prototypical fandom/hobby stuff about some things, and don't about others! Like, I'm like you when it comes to near total disinterest in my favorite musicians' personal lives or really anything other than their music. I have very little investment in them on a personal level, and only care about interviews/whatever to the extent they're about the artistic process. While I do enjoy seeing them live, I won't go to any significant effort or trouble to do so. Every album they put out might as well be their last, and I'm pleasantly surprised whenever a new one is released, but I won't be, like, upset or enraged if a new one doesn't appear or if a new album isn't to my taste. I cast a wide and shallow net when it comes to music, listening across a lot of genres but not deeply in any single one. But! I'm also in media fandom! I read and write fan fiction, I'll discuss shows/books with like-minded fans, I seek out others' discussion and analysis.
People contain multitudes, is the point. Some of us will go all in on a hobby, whatever that means to us, and some of us will just continue to be a more or less casual enjoyer, and some of us will be both at the same time about different things. You're going to hear more from the people who go all in, because they're all in. The casual enjoyers will continue casually enjoying, more or less quietly.
posted by yasaman at 11:03 AM on February 2, 2024
This is just another flavor of every other answer, but...you're fine as you are!
I am an Old Person, so this is very much an Old Person Answer (there's my yard, now kindly keep clear, you kids), but. One of the most unfortunate aspects of modern internet-fueled living is that things can't just be things for the sake of themselves any more, they are all part of a Things Extended Universe that all must be taken in as part of the thing or you're missing out.
I mean, using your example: if you make it known that you enjoy beachcombing, the world now aims a Content Bazooka at you, and fires BeachcomberTok squarely in your face, followed by 10 Things You Gotta Find While Beachcombing and 37 Hidden Beachcombing Beaches To See Before You Die and Beachcomber: The Hidden Costs Of Beachcombing and Why We Beachcomb and Click Here To See The One Trick They Don't Want You To Know About Beachcombing and...that's well before you did an innocent little search for "beachcombing" one night on YT and now your YT feed is full of THE REAL TRUTH ABOUT BEACHCOMBING" videos made by a bunch of dumb right wing extremists with guns and my god all I wanted to do was walk on the beach and look at pretty shells and feel sand between my toes and....it's exhausting. And wrong, because all that you really need is the thing you wanted to do in the first place. All those other things? They're there, certainly, should anyone want to engage with them, but they are not necessary in order to enjoy the original thing. And you're not doing the Thing wrong by not engaging with them.
So yeah. Do the things you like to do, don't worry about all the...stuff that orbits around those things.
posted by pdb at 1:10 PM on February 2, 2024 [5 favorites]
I am an Old Person, so this is very much an Old Person Answer (there's my yard, now kindly keep clear, you kids), but. One of the most unfortunate aspects of modern internet-fueled living is that things can't just be things for the sake of themselves any more, they are all part of a Things Extended Universe that all must be taken in as part of the thing or you're missing out.
I mean, using your example: if you make it known that you enjoy beachcombing, the world now aims a Content Bazooka at you, and fires BeachcomberTok squarely in your face, followed by 10 Things You Gotta Find While Beachcombing and 37 Hidden Beachcombing Beaches To See Before You Die and Beachcomber: The Hidden Costs Of Beachcombing and Why We Beachcomb and Click Here To See The One Trick They Don't Want You To Know About Beachcombing and...that's well before you did an innocent little search for "beachcombing" one night on YT and now your YT feed is full of THE REAL TRUTH ABOUT BEACHCOMBING" videos made by a bunch of dumb right wing extremists with guns and my god all I wanted to do was walk on the beach and look at pretty shells and feel sand between my toes and....it's exhausting. And wrong, because all that you really need is the thing you wanted to do in the first place. All those other things? They're there, certainly, should anyone want to engage with them, but they are not necessary in order to enjoy the original thing. And you're not doing the Thing wrong by not engaging with them.
So yeah. Do the things you like to do, don't worry about all the...stuff that orbits around those things.
posted by pdb at 1:10 PM on February 2, 2024 [5 favorites]
It's social media and tribalism. We used to put all our passion into our immediate survival and our immediate tribe. We didn't have a choice of music, or unlimited amounts of it.
Now we have a wealth of things that we can totally binge and obsess over, and the internet exists with an AI that funnels us every closer to that particular thing that is going to work better for us than anything else out there.
So many more people are able to self select and follow bliss inducing hobbies. I mean, I never expected to find a large online community dedicated to recreating and living on the diet of WWII austerity rationing as a lifestyle, but if there is a special interest, there will now be a community for it and mentors to help you connect to it and immerse yourself. These are necessarily international communities because you are just not going to find thirty strangers into that subject in one small geographical area, or high school. Not only that, the more people discover other people have niche interests, the more likely people are to become a stan for whatever it is they themself are primed to love when they do stumble on it. It has become socially acceptable fifty or sixty years ago you didn't let other people know if you had a special interest.
It used to be that the only people who had those deep special interests were nerds, and most peopled DIDN'T find a special interest community to join, because they thought those people were weird and not cool, and now you are asking if you are the weird one for not having a nerd special interest...
posted by Jane the Brown at 3:12 PM on February 2, 2024 [2 favorites]
Now we have a wealth of things that we can totally binge and obsess over, and the internet exists with an AI that funnels us every closer to that particular thing that is going to work better for us than anything else out there.
So many more people are able to self select and follow bliss inducing hobbies. I mean, I never expected to find a large online community dedicated to recreating and living on the diet of WWII austerity rationing as a lifestyle, but if there is a special interest, there will now be a community for it and mentors to help you connect to it and immerse yourself. These are necessarily international communities because you are just not going to find thirty strangers into that subject in one small geographical area, or high school. Not only that, the more people discover other people have niche interests, the more likely people are to become a stan for whatever it is they themself are primed to love when they do stumble on it. It has become socially acceptable fifty or sixty years ago you didn't let other people know if you had a special interest.
It used to be that the only people who had those deep special interests were nerds, and most peopled DIDN'T find a special interest community to join, because they thought those people were weird and not cool, and now you are asking if you are the weird one for not having a nerd special interest...
posted by Jane the Brown at 3:12 PM on February 2, 2024 [2 favorites]
I WOULD describe myself as a big fan of certain things, much more than you seem to, and I still think what you’re describing as “normal” is actually pretty extreme.
posted by showbiz_liz at 3:27 PM on February 2, 2024
posted by showbiz_liz at 3:27 PM on February 2, 2024
Best answer: I study fandom and I have to make it clear that I am not a Fan of, well, anything. I don't have shelves filled with even a specific genre, let alone author or series or ephemera of that. I don't devote significant time or money to a media object or type of object.
Like you, the closest is food. I enjoy food a lot. I read about a broad variety of things and research media and the internet a lot for work.
I suspect part of it is how identity and community are structured for the individual. I like a lot of different things, and I do think saying "Hot Fuzz is one of my favourite movies, Terry Pratchett is a brilliant author, I adore Turner's landscapes, and go to punk gigs" reveal things about me but those things aren't my identity. Making a project of watching all of the Godzilla films in chronological order tells you something about me, but the fact it was a point of connection with my best friend is a more important thing about my identity than the fact it was Godzilla.
For some people that information seeking and ephemeral detail gathering is part of liking a thing. It is enjoyable, or part of how they engage with something. For others it looks like research and homework. It's like the difference between finding recipes and working out if they're good, and working out the chemical and flavour interactions that make it good. For some people the latter is integral to the process of liking a thing and interpolating it into their understanding of self or others. For some people it's part of understanding the thing itself. For others it's of no interest whatsoever without a concrete link to what they already do.
It's normal whatever way you do it.
posted by geek anachronism at 6:26 PM on February 2, 2024 [4 favorites]
Like you, the closest is food. I enjoy food a lot. I read about a broad variety of things and research media and the internet a lot for work.
I suspect part of it is how identity and community are structured for the individual. I like a lot of different things, and I do think saying "Hot Fuzz is one of my favourite movies, Terry Pratchett is a brilliant author, I adore Turner's landscapes, and go to punk gigs" reveal things about me but those things aren't my identity. Making a project of watching all of the Godzilla films in chronological order tells you something about me, but the fact it was a point of connection with my best friend is a more important thing about my identity than the fact it was Godzilla.
For some people that information seeking and ephemeral detail gathering is part of liking a thing. It is enjoyable, or part of how they engage with something. For others it looks like research and homework. It's like the difference between finding recipes and working out if they're good, and working out the chemical and flavour interactions that make it good. For some people the latter is integral to the process of liking a thing and interpolating it into their understanding of self or others. For some people it's part of understanding the thing itself. For others it's of no interest whatsoever without a concrete link to what they already do.
It's normal whatever way you do it.
posted by geek anachronism at 6:26 PM on February 2, 2024 [4 favorites]
I've always felt like you describe. I think I just don't really engage in parasocial or tribal/group relationships and will never really understand those who do. My wife describes it as me not having "the fan gene".
posted by quiet wanderer at 7:06 PM on February 2, 2024
posted by quiet wanderer at 7:06 PM on February 2, 2024
Met a young bloke last night and pretty much the first thing he asked me was "Are you Holden or Ford?"
The extent to which modern marketing has succeeded in turning everything even including personal identity into a brand fully justifies every last shred of hatred, contempt and loathing I have ever felt for that industry.
posted by flabdablet at 8:10 PM on February 2, 2024 [2 favorites]
The extent to which modern marketing has succeeded in turning everything even including personal identity into a brand fully justifies every last shred of hatred, contempt and loathing I have ever felt for that industry.
posted by flabdablet at 8:10 PM on February 2, 2024 [2 favorites]
I think to most people, I'm pretty passionate and knowledgable about a huge variety of interests, but what they don't know is that I'm in multiple groupchats and community settings with folks who are really, really, really obsessive on a level that I am not, and for the longest time, made me feel like I wasn't passionate about anything and that I would have to study to keep up and match with them.
I reframe it now as that it's amazing to know and be around these people, because I get to benefit from hanging out with them, and they benefit from someone who wants to listen to what they have to say. I used to feel insecure about it, but now as I've worked on my mental health and figuring out caring just what I care about and really trying to not worry about it and just enjoy being in conversation with them, that I'm pretty fine with my above average baseline. No one actually needs me to know that much! It just should be for the level of enjoyment that makes me happy, and that's good enough.
posted by yueliang at 10:08 PM on February 2, 2024
I reframe it now as that it's amazing to know and be around these people, because I get to benefit from hanging out with them, and they benefit from someone who wants to listen to what they have to say. I used to feel insecure about it, but now as I've worked on my mental health and figuring out caring just what I care about and really trying to not worry about it and just enjoy being in conversation with them, that I'm pretty fine with my above average baseline. No one actually needs me to know that much! It just should be for the level of enjoyment that makes me happy, and that's good enough.
posted by yueliang at 10:08 PM on February 2, 2024
I'm a life-long music freak and I have zero idea or interest in knowing when any artist I like's BIRTHDAY is -_-
posted by wats at 11:29 PM on February 2, 2024
posted by wats at 11:29 PM on February 2, 2024
Response by poster: OP here: thank you all for your perspectives. I suspect that some of you are right to point out that I likely spend a lot of time on & offline with people who are particularly passionate and therefore am always the one superficially interested person in the room.
This is not a young person's angst though, I'm in my mid/late 40s and the "what's your favourite" question is most often in a work setting. In particular, I'm facing a career change dilemma and it all seems to boil down to this "follow your passion" issue, find your passion, what is it that really gets you interested, where do you really want to make a mark, do what you love! and to that I have no answer. Anything. Nothing. That's what prompted me to ask whether this was a normal way to be.
posted by AFII at 2:26 AM on February 3, 2024 [2 favorites]
This is not a young person's angst though, I'm in my mid/late 40s and the "what's your favourite" question is most often in a work setting. In particular, I'm facing a career change dilemma and it all seems to boil down to this "follow your passion" issue, find your passion, what is it that really gets you interested, where do you really want to make a mark, do what you love! and to that I have no answer. Anything. Nothing. That's what prompted me to ask whether this was a normal way to be.
posted by AFII at 2:26 AM on February 3, 2024 [2 favorites]
Oh! In that case, I think I see the confusion...
I think the "what's your passion" when people are talking about a career change is DIFFERENT from the kind of "passion" people have for a band or a sports team. The career change kind is more of a lower-key dedication thing.
Also, it's frankly not universally good advice. Some of us just plain aren't wired to need our passions to fund our income - in fact, for me, if you combine the two it kind of ruins both (I tried freelance writing for a while, and the anxiety of having to fund myself through writing just lead to shitty writing and anxiety about whether I WOULD make enough money). I then read an essay that argued that some of us are just better suited to having our money and our passion come from DIFFERENT sources - that I would likely be better off if I got a job that would be easy enough to do so that I still had the mental bandwidth to pursue my passions for the sheer love of it instead. So instead of trying to get a writing job, I have a secretarial job and have my blog for fun. My writing's better because I'm writing about things I truly like to write about (instead of trying to write dumb listicles about The 11 Best Mascaras Of 2024 or whatever) and I'm also much more free mentally to write as well because I'm not anxiously worried about whether I'm going to have enough money for rent at the end of the month.
And I'm also a bit like you, in that I'm not super-devoted to any one thing. I describe my writing as a "passion", but it's more of a lower-key "a thing I like doing". So that approach instead suits me well and I think it may suit you well; instead of trying to figure out "what's the thing I love so much that I could turn it into a career", maybe think along the lines of "what's a job that I'm good enough at that I could do it easily enough to still have the bandwidth to come home and try making ravioli from scratch." For me, I went with secretarial work because I've found it has the same kind of skillset I've used in theater, and I know I can do it easily; I've only been in my new job for a week and my boss has already said she's impressed by how quickly I've jumped into some tasks. But they're tasks that I find easy and near-instinctive; just like the rest of the job.
I don't want to be challenged too much at my job, because then when I get home I wouldn't have the mental energy to do the things I really enjoy; and I don't want to try to monetize what I really enjoy because a) doing so would require a degree of "hustle" and "salesmanship" I simply don't have, and b) I'd run the risk of falling out of love with that thing I enjoy. In fact, today I have little to no interest in going to theater at all, because I worked in theater for 10 years and going to a play still feels a little too much like "going to the office".
So maybe instead of moving into a whole new career that would Fulfill Your Passion or whatever, I would instead think of something you do well, and then apply that skillset to a company in that general world, or something else adjacent. Like, if you have an accounting skillset, and you're interested in food at home, go work in the accounting office of a food company or become a bookkeeper for a restaurant, something like that. You're using your skillset, but you're also putting a toe in the Food World, and you'll have enough mental energy left over to do what you enjoy after work.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:59 AM on February 3, 2024 [8 favorites]
I think the "what's your passion" when people are talking about a career change is DIFFERENT from the kind of "passion" people have for a band or a sports team. The career change kind is more of a lower-key dedication thing.
Also, it's frankly not universally good advice. Some of us just plain aren't wired to need our passions to fund our income - in fact, for me, if you combine the two it kind of ruins both (I tried freelance writing for a while, and the anxiety of having to fund myself through writing just lead to shitty writing and anxiety about whether I WOULD make enough money). I then read an essay that argued that some of us are just better suited to having our money and our passion come from DIFFERENT sources - that I would likely be better off if I got a job that would be easy enough to do so that I still had the mental bandwidth to pursue my passions for the sheer love of it instead. So instead of trying to get a writing job, I have a secretarial job and have my blog for fun. My writing's better because I'm writing about things I truly like to write about (instead of trying to write dumb listicles about The 11 Best Mascaras Of 2024 or whatever) and I'm also much more free mentally to write as well because I'm not anxiously worried about whether I'm going to have enough money for rent at the end of the month.
And I'm also a bit like you, in that I'm not super-devoted to any one thing. I describe my writing as a "passion", but it's more of a lower-key "a thing I like doing". So that approach instead suits me well and I think it may suit you well; instead of trying to figure out "what's the thing I love so much that I could turn it into a career", maybe think along the lines of "what's a job that I'm good enough at that I could do it easily enough to still have the bandwidth to come home and try making ravioli from scratch." For me, I went with secretarial work because I've found it has the same kind of skillset I've used in theater, and I know I can do it easily; I've only been in my new job for a week and my boss has already said she's impressed by how quickly I've jumped into some tasks. But they're tasks that I find easy and near-instinctive; just like the rest of the job.
I don't want to be challenged too much at my job, because then when I get home I wouldn't have the mental energy to do the things I really enjoy; and I don't want to try to monetize what I really enjoy because a) doing so would require a degree of "hustle" and "salesmanship" I simply don't have, and b) I'd run the risk of falling out of love with that thing I enjoy. In fact, today I have little to no interest in going to theater at all, because I worked in theater for 10 years and going to a play still feels a little too much like "going to the office".
So maybe instead of moving into a whole new career that would Fulfill Your Passion or whatever, I would instead think of something you do well, and then apply that skillset to a company in that general world, or something else adjacent. Like, if you have an accounting skillset, and you're interested in food at home, go work in the accounting office of a food company or become a bookkeeper for a restaurant, something like that. You're using your skillset, but you're also putting a toe in the Food World, and you'll have enough mental energy left over to do what you enjoy after work.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:59 AM on February 3, 2024 [8 favorites]
"Do what you love and you'll never work a day in your life" and "follow your passion" and other such ideas and concepts where there's supposed to be a deep connection between you caring about something and what you do for a living make nice catchy phrases but they're largely bullshit. I know, because I did and do, and a lot of times the job is just a job, y'know? My boss can be a demanding jerk, my coworkers frustratingly obtuse, the clients want the impossible at no extra cost to them, in order to do the "passion" part of the job (twiddling knobs to make a musical performance sound good) I have to do a bunch of stuff I'm not passionate about at all and that often flat out sucks (shoving lots of heavy things in & out of trucks, sometimes the performers just aren't very good or are terrible obnoxious people, take high-paying gigs where all of my talent, skill, and experience is put towards some guy droning on about third quarter profits with a PowerPoint presentation.)
IOW, when it comes to your career and job, it's perfectly OK to consider things from the perspective of "liking slightly more" rather than passionate like Swifties or Minecraft gamers. Because no matter how passionate you might be about your job, some days are just gonna suck. Plus there are all the other things you want to consider about a job that have nothing to do with passion - job stability, pay scale and opportunities for raises and bonuses, work/life balance, good benefits, so on and so forth. If you're thinking that your entire industry just isn't working out for you and you need to make a career swerve it's totally fine and totally normal to approach it as "Career X seems mildly interesting and less stressful" and investigate it.
posted by soundguy99 at 5:11 AM on February 3, 2024 [3 favorites]
IOW, when it comes to your career and job, it's perfectly OK to consider things from the perspective of "liking slightly more" rather than passionate like Swifties or Minecraft gamers. Because no matter how passionate you might be about your job, some days are just gonna suck. Plus there are all the other things you want to consider about a job that have nothing to do with passion - job stability, pay scale and opportunities for raises and bonuses, work/life balance, good benefits, so on and so forth. If you're thinking that your entire industry just isn't working out for you and you need to make a career swerve it's totally fine and totally normal to approach it as "Career X seems mildly interesting and less stressful" and investigate it.
posted by soundguy99 at 5:11 AM on February 3, 2024 [3 favorites]
I want to share this relevant story I saw on Reddit from a teenager whose parents were obsessive Harry Potter fans who had completely alienated her from them with their insistence that everything have a theme or be ‘about’ something or that SHE fall in love with Star Wars or some other random if she didn’t like HP. To the extent that in an argument she screamed at them that she liked NORMAL PEOPLE THINGS a NORMAL AMOUNT!
That seems pretty normal.
She also said her parents met in an AOL Instant Messenger HP chat ‘which is like Discord but for old people’, so that happened.
posted by bq at 7:16 AM on February 3, 2024 [4 favorites]
That seems pretty normal.
She also said her parents met in an AOL Instant Messenger HP chat ‘which is like Discord but for old people’, so that happened.
posted by bq at 7:16 AM on February 3, 2024 [4 favorites]
Aha ok. Don’t worry about “passion”.
Do you have a knack for something? Hopefully something in a less-ageist field? Hopefully something that can pull some coin for the next 10-20 years without being replaced by AI, robots, or cheaper-than-actual-cost-of-living labour? Something in a field you can tolerate? Think about how the day is actually spent, who you’re around, what the challenges and opportunities in said field may be (do research). Are you set financially or do you need to build some more? How urgently?
posted by cotton dress sock at 2:30 PM on February 3, 2024 [2 favorites]
Do you have a knack for something? Hopefully something in a less-ageist field? Hopefully something that can pull some coin for the next 10-20 years without being replaced by AI, robots, or cheaper-than-actual-cost-of-living labour? Something in a field you can tolerate? Think about how the day is actually spent, who you’re around, what the challenges and opportunities in said field may be (do research). Are you set financially or do you need to build some more? How urgently?
posted by cotton dress sock at 2:30 PM on February 3, 2024 [2 favorites]
Hi fellow food scene follower! I don’t know about normal or not normal but just wanted to say you aren’t alone.
posted by Argyle Road at 4:02 AM on February 6, 2024
posted by Argyle Road at 4:02 AM on February 6, 2024
In particular, I'm facing a career change dilemma and it all seems to boil down to this "follow your passion" issue, find your passion, what is it that really gets you interested, where do you really want to make a mark, do what you love! and to that I have no answer. Anything. Nothing. That's what prompted me to ask whether this was a normal way to be
Ohhhh whatttttttt no that is pure absolute bullshit corpspeak blather, most people just find a job doing whatever to get money to live.
There is zero percent of anything that pays any money that I'm even the slightest bit interested in doing and that's fine, so like almost every human who ever lived, I do something stupid that sucks for 10 hours a day and then forget about it until the next day when I open my computer to do something stupid that sucks.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 7:34 AM on February 12, 2024
Ohhhh whatttttttt no that is pure absolute bullshit corpspeak blather, most people just find a job doing whatever to get money to live.
There is zero percent of anything that pays any money that I'm even the slightest bit interested in doing and that's fine, so like almost every human who ever lived, I do something stupid that sucks for 10 hours a day and then forget about it until the next day when I open my computer to do something stupid that sucks.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 7:34 AM on February 12, 2024
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posted by Phanx at 1:21 AM on February 2, 2024 [21 favorites]