emotionally sensitive situation with former student - how to proceed?
November 22, 2023 11:32 AM Subscribe
A student who really looked up to me and my spouse when we were their teachers is now at college in our new city. I've heard from a third-party about their abhorrent new-found beliefs. They have now friend requested me on facebook, knowing fully I disagree deeply with what they profess to believe, but they could just be reaching out for support and I don't want to leave them hanging. Posting on anon and using neutral language to hopefully obscure the student and the school if someone happened to see this. Lots of circumstances behind the cut.
BACKGROUND: I'm a non-binary lesbian. I'm married to a visibly gnc, non-binary lesbian. This student previously identified as a trans, and the school we were working for at the time was a small, trans-affirming boarding and day school.
This student had a TERF mom. Not just a conservative mom or a non-supportive mom but a gender critical feminist, posting about it on facebook, fucking TERF. I spent hours working in the library with this kid following me around and they would vent to me some of the saddest feelings you've ever heard. They were deeply hurt by their mom's lack of support, mom spent a lot of time trying to convince the student they were not trans, and the student told me they looked forward to 18 when they could access hormones. They saw school as a haven, but rightly their other mental health issues did make it seem like taking a break from our sort of tense academic and social environment might help them. This student had a lot of struggles with depression and anxiety, and once told me that they had been diagnosed as on the autism spectrum when they were little but that was the last they ever heard of it. They had struggled with self-harm, suicidal ideation, and had a close friend die by suicide during their tenure as a student with me. So they've really been through a lot and are a sensitive person who struggles with emotional regulation. The mom pulled the student from our school and eventually I heard the student detransitioned.
When I say looked up to us, I mean literally said things like "you're the kind of adults I want to be when I grow up" and "read my writing/listen to my songs tell me what you think! here is one of my paintings as a gift!" Basically attached to my spouse and I like mom figures, which we tried to handle the best you can (being positive and validating toward them but trying to create a more healthy distance by not being overly effusive or giving them extra attention). I do feel a lot of care and affection toward this student and have often worried about them since we lost contact with them after they left the school. There was an incident where we ran into them in town no long after they left (a few months?) but that day we'd just found out that the school didn't want to renew my wife's contract for the next year which was out of nowhere and unrelated to a queer/trans issues. We weren't feeling great, had literally come into town to get away from campus for a few hours. So we didn't really stop to chat with the student, just said hi and moved on. I feel extremely guilty about this now even it has now been a year since it happened, and that is also a factor for me. They are absolutely the kind of person who might take that as a painful rejection, especially considering everything else they've dealt with.
SO AT PRESENT: it was recently homecoming and the student in question came back for a visit. Our very close friend who still teaches there was also a favorite of this student, and they talked for a while and our friend reported back. Friend told us the student has detransitioned and now is vocally (perhaps in a challenging way, because the student knows we are queer and all extremely pro-trans if not literally trans) espousing TERF beliefs, and criticizing the school for allowing students to stay in the dorm of their gender identity instead of their 'biological' sex. Which is rich, bc the student was only ever a day student and never lived in the dorms. My spouse and I had already suspected they had detransitioned because my spouse was recommend an instagram acct under their deadname and with a current picture. Just detransitioning of course is not where opening communication with them is a problem. I'll support them no matter what in that regard.
But hearing about this vocal TERF shit is where this sudden friend request becomes complicated. I feel extremely deeply that TERF beliefs are wrong, heinous and deadly. I feel a bit betrayed by the student. I don't like the idea that the student may reply negatively to something on my fb when I have many trans friends who may see it and it would hurt me personally. I think it is extremely confusing to the point that I'm a little pissed that this student is saying these things to someone they absolutely know will tell us (the staff member that told us is my closest friend and it was a well known fact at the school. staff lived on campus, you couldn't hide anything from the students), and then friend requesting me right after. The timing feels weird.
YET I suspect that because they know just who I am and what I believe and that I have a reputation for saying it, they sort of want to be challenged, they want to open communication between us, and they know that we have moved and they are now attending college in our small city. They absolutely know that we would argue them to death if they tried to say to us what they said to our friend. I still want to be there for this student, because I know that what they are going through is not going to end here, and it will probably get worse for them before they find their way, if they ever do. I know I'm not really betrayed by them and this is like, the extremely fraught actions of a troubled child (I mean, they are 19/20, but a child to me). I know that they are fucking suffering and then I feel guilty and confused. I've got racing stupid ideas of suddenly using facebook more, bc I pretty much stopped five years ago when I started teaching which I'm not anymore so I can go wild, and just post non-stop positive pro-trans content. That might seem pointed, and would probably provoke something that I specifically want to avoid. At this point I'm almost positive (based just on what I know of this student) that when I accept their friend request they will reach out and say hi, in some form. They also sent this request the day before the Trans Day of Remembrance which is a date I know they'll have known. Does that have some bearing?
Am I welcoming a TERF into my life, or being there for a very troubled person? I'm pissed on their behalf, and at them a too, and so worried for them simultaneously and anytime I open fb to look at marketplace (almost the only use I have for it) I see that friend request and get so overwhelmed I close it. Especially because I get lost in how angry I am at their mom. She's lucky I moved and won't run into her at the store anymore, because she'd have to hear what I think of her now that I'm not a teacher.
I almost want to write them something first and say honestly "I heard from FRIEND about ISSUES AT HAND and just want to say I'm here to support you no matter what, except while you're a TERF. your identity is yours, but I won't accept the terf stuff." which considering how sensitive they've been previously I think could go badly and cut off us as a line of support? I'd prefer to be honest, even though it very well may be they just need someone to talk to and I'm just being pushy and repellent. It feels like I'm putting my and my spouse's well-being on the line for this student, while I also know that's probably overstating it. But we aren't necessarily cis, even if ambivalent about the term trans for ourselves, and what this kid now believes, and what they may say or what I may have to hear to help them scares me. At the same time I sincerely believe this student is a lost brainwashed young person. I truly fear for their future and harm they may someday cause to themselves.
Also I'm autistic, so I'm both overthinking and oblivious socially. Please keep that in mind.
Thanks in advance for any guidance. I really want to be there for this person. They are hurting, no matter what I know that to be the case. But I'm just completely spun around by all of this. I will eventually accept the request, they will talk to me. How should I handle it?
BACKGROUND: I'm a non-binary lesbian. I'm married to a visibly gnc, non-binary lesbian. This student previously identified as a trans, and the school we were working for at the time was a small, trans-affirming boarding and day school.
This student had a TERF mom. Not just a conservative mom or a non-supportive mom but a gender critical feminist, posting about it on facebook, fucking TERF. I spent hours working in the library with this kid following me around and they would vent to me some of the saddest feelings you've ever heard. They were deeply hurt by their mom's lack of support, mom spent a lot of time trying to convince the student they were not trans, and the student told me they looked forward to 18 when they could access hormones. They saw school as a haven, but rightly their other mental health issues did make it seem like taking a break from our sort of tense academic and social environment might help them. This student had a lot of struggles with depression and anxiety, and once told me that they had been diagnosed as on the autism spectrum when they were little but that was the last they ever heard of it. They had struggled with self-harm, suicidal ideation, and had a close friend die by suicide during their tenure as a student with me. So they've really been through a lot and are a sensitive person who struggles with emotional regulation. The mom pulled the student from our school and eventually I heard the student detransitioned.
When I say looked up to us, I mean literally said things like "you're the kind of adults I want to be when I grow up" and "read my writing/listen to my songs tell me what you think! here is one of my paintings as a gift!" Basically attached to my spouse and I like mom figures, which we tried to handle the best you can (being positive and validating toward them but trying to create a more healthy distance by not being overly effusive or giving them extra attention). I do feel a lot of care and affection toward this student and have often worried about them since we lost contact with them after they left the school. There was an incident where we ran into them in town no long after they left (a few months?) but that day we'd just found out that the school didn't want to renew my wife's contract for the next year which was out of nowhere and unrelated to a queer/trans issues. We weren't feeling great, had literally come into town to get away from campus for a few hours. So we didn't really stop to chat with the student, just said hi and moved on. I feel extremely guilty about this now even it has now been a year since it happened, and that is also a factor for me. They are absolutely the kind of person who might take that as a painful rejection, especially considering everything else they've dealt with.
SO AT PRESENT: it was recently homecoming and the student in question came back for a visit. Our very close friend who still teaches there was also a favorite of this student, and they talked for a while and our friend reported back. Friend told us the student has detransitioned and now is vocally (perhaps in a challenging way, because the student knows we are queer and all extremely pro-trans if not literally trans) espousing TERF beliefs, and criticizing the school for allowing students to stay in the dorm of their gender identity instead of their 'biological' sex. Which is rich, bc the student was only ever a day student and never lived in the dorms. My spouse and I had already suspected they had detransitioned because my spouse was recommend an instagram acct under their deadname and with a current picture. Just detransitioning of course is not where opening communication with them is a problem. I'll support them no matter what in that regard.
But hearing about this vocal TERF shit is where this sudden friend request becomes complicated. I feel extremely deeply that TERF beliefs are wrong, heinous and deadly. I feel a bit betrayed by the student. I don't like the idea that the student may reply negatively to something on my fb when I have many trans friends who may see it and it would hurt me personally. I think it is extremely confusing to the point that I'm a little pissed that this student is saying these things to someone they absolutely know will tell us (the staff member that told us is my closest friend and it was a well known fact at the school. staff lived on campus, you couldn't hide anything from the students), and then friend requesting me right after. The timing feels weird.
YET I suspect that because they know just who I am and what I believe and that I have a reputation for saying it, they sort of want to be challenged, they want to open communication between us, and they know that we have moved and they are now attending college in our small city. They absolutely know that we would argue them to death if they tried to say to us what they said to our friend. I still want to be there for this student, because I know that what they are going through is not going to end here, and it will probably get worse for them before they find their way, if they ever do. I know I'm not really betrayed by them and this is like, the extremely fraught actions of a troubled child (I mean, they are 19/20, but a child to me). I know that they are fucking suffering and then I feel guilty and confused. I've got racing stupid ideas of suddenly using facebook more, bc I pretty much stopped five years ago when I started teaching which I'm not anymore so I can go wild, and just post non-stop positive pro-trans content. That might seem pointed, and would probably provoke something that I specifically want to avoid. At this point I'm almost positive (based just on what I know of this student) that when I accept their friend request they will reach out and say hi, in some form. They also sent this request the day before the Trans Day of Remembrance which is a date I know they'll have known. Does that have some bearing?
Am I welcoming a TERF into my life, or being there for a very troubled person? I'm pissed on their behalf, and at them a too, and so worried for them simultaneously and anytime I open fb to look at marketplace (almost the only use I have for it) I see that friend request and get so overwhelmed I close it. Especially because I get lost in how angry I am at their mom. She's lucky I moved and won't run into her at the store anymore, because she'd have to hear what I think of her now that I'm not a teacher.
I almost want to write them something first and say honestly "I heard from FRIEND about ISSUES AT HAND and just want to say I'm here to support you no matter what, except while you're a TERF. your identity is yours, but I won't accept the terf stuff." which considering how sensitive they've been previously I think could go badly and cut off us as a line of support? I'd prefer to be honest, even though it very well may be they just need someone to talk to and I'm just being pushy and repellent. It feels like I'm putting my and my spouse's well-being on the line for this student, while I also know that's probably overstating it. But we aren't necessarily cis, even if ambivalent about the term trans for ourselves, and what this kid now believes, and what they may say or what I may have to hear to help them scares me. At the same time I sincerely believe this student is a lost brainwashed young person. I truly fear for their future and harm they may someday cause to themselves.
Also I'm autistic, so I'm both overthinking and oblivious socially. Please keep that in mind.
Thanks in advance for any guidance. I really want to be there for this person. They are hurting, no matter what I know that to be the case. But I'm just completely spun around by all of this. I will eventually accept the request, they will talk to me. How should I handle it?
I don't think you need to be the person who is there for this student. You do not owe them a duty of care, and there are other people with less history with them who are likely to be in a better place to be supportive.
You say yourself that they are 19 or 20 and yet you still think of them as a child. This is not going to be a helpful dynamic.
Delete and move on.
posted by plonkee at 12:26 PM on November 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
You say yourself that they are 19 or 20 and yet you still think of them as a child. This is not going to be a helpful dynamic.
Delete and move on.
posted by plonkee at 12:26 PM on November 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
The student knows who you are and what you stand for and still wants to FB friend you. So presumably to the student, you and your spouse are more to them than your beliefs and positions on sex and gender.
If you don't feel the same way about them beyond this difference, if you can't be empathic to a student who has gone through their own experience with gender and so, informed by that (and you really don't know exactly what they have gone through ) whose radically different beliefs from you may or may not change, then you should not confirm the request.
Only do so if you truly can be a friend to someone younger who might really be very different from you even in ways you radically disagree with, and who might or might not continue to evolve. It doesn't sound like you can, so don't.
posted by Tim Bucktooth at 12:27 PM on November 22, 2023 [10 favorites]
If you don't feel the same way about them beyond this difference, if you can't be empathic to a student who has gone through their own experience with gender and so, informed by that (and you really don't know exactly what they have gone through ) whose radically different beliefs from you may or may not change, then you should not confirm the request.
Only do so if you truly can be a friend to someone younger who might really be very different from you even in ways you radically disagree with, and who might or might not continue to evolve. It doesn't sound like you can, so don't.
posted by Tim Bucktooth at 12:27 PM on November 22, 2023 [10 favorites]
What's best for the student, and what's best for you (or in your capacity) might differ. But here's what I think is best for the student; you can decide if it's within your capacity.
The student is young, sounds vulnerable, confused, and full of emotions. Usually, people who spout hateful or absolutist rhetoric ('X is absolutely bad, Y is VERY BAD') are in a position of emotional stress and difficulty. Disagreeing at the level of rhetoric or avowed belief ("You're wrong to say X is bad") is like treating the symptom, not the cause.
It sounds like what the student needs is someone who can non-judgmentally listen to what's going on in their life and be supportive and empathetic. When they say something TERF-y, I think it would be helpful for a listener to understand what they're getting out of this (hateful) belief system (probably a feeling of certainty, belonging, agency), and thus, what lack or pain that they're going through. The student probably needs someone who can listen to this and understand what their deeper needs are. At the same time, they probably also need someone with discernment who can nudge them and realize that terf-yness isn't serving them right. At the very minimum, having one or two older mentors that they can connect to occasionally would probably be really meaningful.
It sounds like you think they want to argue with you; if you argue back, some kind of a familiar pattern is re-established. I'm not saying this to vilify them, but rather to make it clear that, from my perspective, this has more to do with their psychological state of mind rather than any kind of political ideology. (My theory is that almost all political ideology has to do with psychology, but that's another story).
My strong suggestion is that: if you're able to listen and talk calmly and empathetically with them as the adult that you are, then you might be equipped. If your impulse is to argue back with them, then this is probably not the right kind of connection for you to have right now.
posted by many more sunsets at 12:29 PM on November 22, 2023 [10 favorites]
The student is young, sounds vulnerable, confused, and full of emotions. Usually, people who spout hateful or absolutist rhetoric ('X is absolutely bad, Y is VERY BAD') are in a position of emotional stress and difficulty. Disagreeing at the level of rhetoric or avowed belief ("You're wrong to say X is bad") is like treating the symptom, not the cause.
It sounds like what the student needs is someone who can non-judgmentally listen to what's going on in their life and be supportive and empathetic. When they say something TERF-y, I think it would be helpful for a listener to understand what they're getting out of this (hateful) belief system (probably a feeling of certainty, belonging, agency), and thus, what lack or pain that they're going through. The student probably needs someone who can listen to this and understand what their deeper needs are. At the same time, they probably also need someone with discernment who can nudge them and realize that terf-yness isn't serving them right. At the very minimum, having one or two older mentors that they can connect to occasionally would probably be really meaningful.
It sounds like you think they want to argue with you; if you argue back, some kind of a familiar pattern is re-established. I'm not saying this to vilify them, but rather to make it clear that, from my perspective, this has more to do with their psychological state of mind rather than any kind of political ideology. (My theory is that almost all political ideology has to do with psychology, but that's another story).
My strong suggestion is that: if you're able to listen and talk calmly and empathetically with them as the adult that you are, then you might be equipped. If your impulse is to argue back with them, then this is probably not the right kind of connection for you to have right now.
posted by many more sunsets at 12:29 PM on November 22, 2023 [10 favorites]
When I worked with students I was adamant about not accepting friend requests from anyone under 21. Of course that won't work if you have other younger students in your social media.
I maintain some friendships in social media with people whose politics are radically different from mine and I hope, just a little, that they might become more open-minded and/or better-informed my something I post or some comment.
This young friend of yours sounds fragile and needy. My advice would be to not engage in arguments. If they try to start one just tell them you don't want to argue, you're just there to be a friend.
posted by mareli at 12:48 PM on November 22, 2023 [4 favorites]
I maintain some friendships in social media with people whose politics are radically different from mine and I hope, just a little, that they might become more open-minded and/or better-informed my something I post or some comment.
This young friend of yours sounds fragile and needy. My advice would be to not engage in arguments. If they try to start one just tell them you don't want to argue, you're just there to be a friend.
posted by mareli at 12:48 PM on November 22, 2023 [4 favorites]
I remember when I was in college and one of the butch queer women leaders from the LGBTQ group went back in the closet and got married to a man because she couldn't hack the pressure from her awful fundamentalist family. The last time I saw her she was wearing a picture hat and a dress.
I somehow can't believe that she stuck it out for life but I don't know - I never knew her that well and she was a couple of years ahead of me.
Thinking of her, I'm inclined to try to keep lines of communication open here, if you can possibly find some emotional distance and feel like it's more about "supporting a young former student" and less about "being age-peer friends with a TERFy person". This really wouldn't, couldn't be about friendship - you wouldn't be friends with a TERF, and you're really only wanting to support this person because you believe that they are not truly a TERF deep down but rather a victim of family abuse.
Also, you can always close lines of communication again if it gets to be too much. You can always message this person and say something like, "I want to be a support for you if you are in need, but I can't maintain a casual online friendship with you right now because your transphobic beliefs are painful and alienating" and then mute them or whatever one does on facebook. Being a friend to them now to see where it goes doesn't mean being a friend to them forever, and if facebook friendship doesn't work out, that doesn't mean that you would, eg, literally kick them out onto the street if they contacted you in an emergency.
posted by Frowner at 1:03 PM on November 22, 2023 [13 favorites]
I somehow can't believe that she stuck it out for life but I don't know - I never knew her that well and she was a couple of years ahead of me.
Thinking of her, I'm inclined to try to keep lines of communication open here, if you can possibly find some emotional distance and feel like it's more about "supporting a young former student" and less about "being age-peer friends with a TERFy person". This really wouldn't, couldn't be about friendship - you wouldn't be friends with a TERF, and you're really only wanting to support this person because you believe that they are not truly a TERF deep down but rather a victim of family abuse.
Also, you can always close lines of communication again if it gets to be too much. You can always message this person and say something like, "I want to be a support for you if you are in need, but I can't maintain a casual online friendship with you right now because your transphobic beliefs are painful and alienating" and then mute them or whatever one does on facebook. Being a friend to them now to see where it goes doesn't mean being a friend to them forever, and if facebook friendship doesn't work out, that doesn't mean that you would, eg, literally kick them out onto the street if they contacted you in an emergency.
posted by Frowner at 1:03 PM on November 22, 2023 [13 favorites]
"I almost want to write them something first and say honestly "I heard from FRIEND about ISSUES AT HAND and just want to say I'm here to support you no matter what, except while you're a TERF. your identity is yours, but I won't accept the terf stuff.""
I think that if you do decide to reach out to them, setting this boundary in the relationship would do you a lot of good and assuage a lot of the fears you have about how it will go. I think it would be very tricky to negotiate, and it would be ongoing and probably very, very hard (and I really like many more sunsets's advice about how to situate yourself in relation to these beliefs). But you obviously care a lot about them. The odds are very good that they need a lot more help than you could reasonably be expected to give them but you could still do some good.
posted by spindle at 1:08 PM on November 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
I think that if you do decide to reach out to them, setting this boundary in the relationship would do you a lot of good and assuage a lot of the fears you have about how it will go. I think it would be very tricky to negotiate, and it would be ongoing and probably very, very hard (and I really like many more sunsets's advice about how to situate yourself in relation to these beliefs). But you obviously care a lot about them. The odds are very good that they need a lot more help than you could reasonably be expected to give them but you could still do some good.
posted by spindle at 1:08 PM on November 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
If you're worried about being their friend on Facebook, you can still message each other through Facebook, as long as one of you hasn't blocked the other. You'll just have to watch your other message folder ("Message Requests" maybe?) and that might only be visible on desktop view. I don't use FB Messenger, so sorry that my advice is patchy, but I've used FB messages to get lost items to total strangers, it's possible to reach people who aren't your friends. That might be a reasonable compromise for someone you want to have a line of communication with without having to see their feed or risk that they'll say hurful things on your posts.
posted by EvaDestruction at 1:24 PM on November 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by EvaDestruction at 1:24 PM on November 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
You absolutely do not need to accept this friend request and give this former student access to your online life and a chance to say hurtful things to queer people in your life. You have a very straightforward out here, in sending them a message saying you prefer not to be social media mutuals with former students, but that you wish them well. *If* you really feel compelled to offer them a support despite that, you can certainly add something along the lines of being available to talk with them about (issues), if you can both agree to set aside any (some nicer way of saying Your TERF bullshit). But you *do not have to*, if it is at the cost of your own well-being, which it sounds like it might be.
posted by Stacey at 1:36 PM on November 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Stacey at 1:36 PM on November 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
It's not appropriate to have a personal relationship with a former student, especially one who's still in college. What if this person re-transferred to your school, or took a night class with a colleague for transfer credit, etc.? Just send a friendly response back saying you don't do social-media connections with students but you send all best wishes for their future career.
posted by Bardolph at 1:43 PM on November 22, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by Bardolph at 1:43 PM on November 22, 2023 [6 favorites]
I have a lot of connections to youth in my community and I have an absolutely hard line that I don’t add them to Facebook. I think this would go double if I had any feelings like betrayal about that person or felt we might be in conflict.
If this is the only way this person can reach out to you, I suppose that’s a factor but really…I don’t think this is the way to do it. It’s not just a one on one conversation, it’s seeing each other’s posts and milestones and getting reminders.
posted by warriorqueen at 1:44 PM on November 22, 2023 [4 favorites]
If this is the only way this person can reach out to you, I suppose that’s a factor but really…I don’t think this is the way to do it. It’s not just a one on one conversation, it’s seeing each other’s posts and milestones and getting reminders.
posted by warriorqueen at 1:44 PM on November 22, 2023 [4 favorites]
I think you’re well within your rights to either ignore the friend request or delete it. Former students who reach out through social media for connections are often looking to rekindle the loving positive regard they experienced from the adult in their school years… not always, but often. If you’re not up for that sort of one-way relationship, that is totally ok to keep that boundary high between you and not friend them.
I also am going to suggest that the student likely doesn’t see any disconnect between their current views and your own, and they probably aren’t intentionally approaching you to pick fights. We often remember our own high school experiences through our own high-school minds, even as adults—and that usually means students don’t think of the school’s adults as real, complex people. They might THINK they do, but it’s very difficult to transition a student-mentor relationship to a peer-to-peer one. So I think it’s very likely the student’s attempt to reach out is an attempt to recapture the safe supporting environment they remember from school, without ever realizing how much their views harm you. You were their person in school, and they likely remember the emotional truth more than the actual details of you and your life.
The student is used to seeing you as a two-dimensional cardboard cutout within an environment that has very clearly defined roles. Transitioning to a relationship where you are now a whole complex person, who’s not getting paid to care about them (even if your care initially went beyond job requirements), where maintaining a relationship might involve real effort from the student, is always difficult. It’s ok to not want to guide the student through that process. It’s ok to let that relationship remain the more simple time-bound version of itself.
posted by lilac girl at 2:00 PM on November 22, 2023 [4 favorites]
I also am going to suggest that the student likely doesn’t see any disconnect between their current views and your own, and they probably aren’t intentionally approaching you to pick fights. We often remember our own high school experiences through our own high-school minds, even as adults—and that usually means students don’t think of the school’s adults as real, complex people. They might THINK they do, but it’s very difficult to transition a student-mentor relationship to a peer-to-peer one. So I think it’s very likely the student’s attempt to reach out is an attempt to recapture the safe supporting environment they remember from school, without ever realizing how much their views harm you. You were their person in school, and they likely remember the emotional truth more than the actual details of you and your life.
The student is used to seeing you as a two-dimensional cardboard cutout within an environment that has very clearly defined roles. Transitioning to a relationship where you are now a whole complex person, who’s not getting paid to care about them (even if your care initially went beyond job requirements), where maintaining a relationship might involve real effort from the student, is always difficult. It’s ok to not want to guide the student through that process. It’s ok to let that relationship remain the more simple time-bound version of itself.
posted by lilac girl at 2:00 PM on November 22, 2023 [4 favorites]
I would accept the friend request. Thank them for their statements in the past, and then explain how their current positions don't align with your thoughts, wish them well, and wait a day or two, and then unfriend. Might get a chance to help them. And then you are done. Agreed, faculty/student things are questionable, but, make them know you care, but are not willing to go to where they are now.
posted by Windopaene at 2:21 PM on November 22, 2023
posted by Windopaene at 2:21 PM on November 22, 2023
You are under no obligation to friend folks on Facebook, let alone former students.
If you do decide to "friend" this person, consider restricting this person's access to your profile and friends' list. This would enable this person to message you, but would minimize the ways this person can interact with your friends. Also enable the setting (what ever it's called these days) where this person's posts won't show up in your news feed.
posted by oceano at 2:59 PM on November 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
If you do decide to "friend" this person, consider restricting this person's access to your profile and friends' list. This would enable this person to message you, but would minimize the ways this person can interact with your friends. Also enable the setting (what ever it's called these days) where this person's posts won't show up in your news feed.
posted by oceano at 2:59 PM on November 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
I think rejecting their friend request without a note would be hurtful to them. I think it would be fine to send a them a note saying that you generally avoid being friends with current or former students on social media (if that is indeed the case — if that’s verifiably not true and they find out, that would be painful for them). Share your email address and say that you hope they’re doing well and that they can reach out to you via email.
I think it’s important to remain a resource for this person if you are up for it emotionally. It sounds like they are going through a lot and I doubt their current beliefs will stick. When they come out the other side, they will likely need validation more than ever and having a burned bridge to look back on will be acutely painful.
Please consider keeping the lines of communication open and modeling care and compassion through this period in their life. You don’t owe this person anything, technically, but I think staying open to this person is the way to go. If they become aggressive in asserting their TERF beliefs with you, you can set a boundary. But cross that bridge when you get there. You don’t know what’s going on in their heart of hearts and you have the chance to be a port in the storm.
posted by delight at 3:15 PM on November 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
I think it’s important to remain a resource for this person if you are up for it emotionally. It sounds like they are going through a lot and I doubt their current beliefs will stick. When they come out the other side, they will likely need validation more than ever and having a burned bridge to look back on will be acutely painful.
Please consider keeping the lines of communication open and modeling care and compassion through this period in their life. You don’t owe this person anything, technically, but I think staying open to this person is the way to go. If they become aggressive in asserting their TERF beliefs with you, you can set a boundary. But cross that bridge when you get there. You don’t know what’s going on in their heart of hearts and you have the chance to be a port in the storm.
posted by delight at 3:15 PM on November 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
I'd be inclined to decline the friend request, respectfully, saying some version of "I don't friend former students on social media." And then if you want to convey openness to some kind of friendship, you could offer them some way to contact you that isn't through Facebook.
If you do decide to offer some kind of contact -- I don't think I'd open the conversation on TERF stuff immediately. That seems to me to be inviting drama, by making your former student (1) realize that they'd been the subject of gossip and (2) suspect that you only agreed to talk to them so you could put them in their place. It doesn't seem like a great footing to begin knowing each other as adults. If they bring it up, I'd be forthright at that point that these ideas are harmful. But you might consider retaining a pastoral tone there as much as you can. This person probably still looks up to you, even if their views are shifting and changing, as adolescents' and young adults' views do. I have a feeling a small amount of disapproval will go a long way.
posted by eirias at 3:16 PM on November 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
If you do decide to offer some kind of contact -- I don't think I'd open the conversation on TERF stuff immediately. That seems to me to be inviting drama, by making your former student (1) realize that they'd been the subject of gossip and (2) suspect that you only agreed to talk to them so you could put them in their place. It doesn't seem like a great footing to begin knowing each other as adults. If they bring it up, I'd be forthright at that point that these ideas are harmful. But you might consider retaining a pastoral tone there as much as you can. This person probably still looks up to you, even if their views are shifting and changing, as adolescents' and young adults' views do. I have a feeling a small amount of disapproval will go a long way.
posted by eirias at 3:16 PM on November 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
I don't think you can casually be in contact with this person. There's too much emotion around them, for you definitely and probably for them. You can either ignore (which is not a Statement, just how things happen on FB sometimes) or you can engage with them fully. That will involve starting a dialogue, asking questions about where they're at and what's going on with them, and then maybe/probably arguing with them about their beliefs. That might eventually end with unfriending, or an ongoing dialogue, a long-term friendship or a big fallout.
This could be good for them, cathartic for you, might make you feel like you did your best; it might be worth it. There have been times in my life when I would take something like this on for someone I had liked who was clearly Going Through Some Shit. But there are times when I could not, and to be honest, it sounds like you are not feeling up to it right now.
So yeah, this isn't about a Facebook friendship. This is about girding your metaphorical loins for a big, emotional Thing. So, are you up to directing a ton of your emotional energy at that over the next few weeks or months? It doesn't really sound like it, and I wouldn't be, but maybe you feel differently.
Also, remember that you can always reach out to them later. If you ignore the friend request and find yourself thinking of them next year and interested in taking on this emotional task, you can always reach out then.
posted by gideonfrog at 3:40 PM on November 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
This could be good for them, cathartic for you, might make you feel like you did your best; it might be worth it. There have been times in my life when I would take something like this on for someone I had liked who was clearly Going Through Some Shit. But there are times when I could not, and to be honest, it sounds like you are not feeling up to it right now.
So yeah, this isn't about a Facebook friendship. This is about girding your metaphorical loins for a big, emotional Thing. So, are you up to directing a ton of your emotional energy at that over the next few weeks or months? It doesn't really sound like it, and I wouldn't be, but maybe you feel differently.
Also, remember that you can always reach out to them later. If you ignore the friend request and find yourself thinking of them next year and interested in taking on this emotional task, you can always reach out then.
posted by gideonfrog at 3:40 PM on November 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
I’ll be honest, I only read enough of your question to get the general gist but my overwhelming response to this is if it’s a situation that makes you write reams of paragraphs at the mere thought of friending this person and nothing’s even happened yet, just don’t do it.
It’s already creating so much anxiety in you and you don’t owe anyone a Facebook friendship, especially a former student as that’s just muddying the waters. They probably do need help but you’re not the right person to be providing it.
posted by Jubey at 5:39 PM on November 22, 2023 [8 favorites]
It’s already creating so much anxiety in you and you don’t owe anyone a Facebook friendship, especially a former student as that’s just muddying the waters. They probably do need help but you’re not the right person to be providing it.
posted by Jubey at 5:39 PM on November 22, 2023 [8 favorites]
Are their posts on Facebook public, and if so have you read them? What sort of profile have they put up? What they have chosen to show could make this decision very simple.
Provided that their profile and posts pass muster I would go ahead and friend them. It’s just as easy to unfriend people, and if your ex-student (who is already out in the world passing their familial trauma along to new people) decides to hurt people near you then perhaps the best lesson you can teach them is that they don’t get to be a hateful person and stay friends with decent ones.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 9:31 PM on November 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
Provided that their profile and posts pass muster I would go ahead and friend them. It’s just as easy to unfriend people, and if your ex-student (who is already out in the world passing their familial trauma along to new people) decides to hurt people near you then perhaps the best lesson you can teach them is that they don’t get to be a hateful person and stay friends with decent ones.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 9:31 PM on November 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
You haven't interacted with this student in several years, right? You say "I know they are fucking suffering" but you don't actually know that they are suffering. I can see how it would be a reasonable assumption, but you don't actually know that. There are a bunch of issues going on with said student, but they don't necessarily add up to a narrative that (if I am reading correctly between the lines) your mind is reaching for -- they were pressured by TERF mom to de-transition, repressed their gender identity, and have both internalized and are now externalizing mom's TERF beliefs. Maybe that is what happened, maybe not. I can think of other versions of this story that have different causal and correlative dynamics between all these factors. There is no way for you to know what is going on with them, and if you feel certain that you do know, you are likely doing some projecting or presuming.
It sounds like your idea that you want to be there for this troubled "kid" is predicated on your perception of them from several years ago. A lot can change in that time frame. This person is not your responsibility, and you sound overly invested, and like you don't necessarily have good emotional boundaries to deal with this situation, as you may be feeling a sense of responsibility that does not seem situationally appropriate. So, I think your thought process should be pretty simple: if you don't want TERF energy and beliefs in your life, then don't invite this TERF person into your and your family's life, even if they are knocking on the door.
posted by virve at 3:11 AM on November 23, 2023 [6 favorites]
It sounds like your idea that you want to be there for this troubled "kid" is predicated on your perception of them from several years ago. A lot can change in that time frame. This person is not your responsibility, and you sound overly invested, and like you don't necessarily have good emotional boundaries to deal with this situation, as you may be feeling a sense of responsibility that does not seem situationally appropriate. So, I think your thought process should be pretty simple: if you don't want TERF energy and beliefs in your life, then don't invite this TERF person into your and your family's life, even if they are knocking on the door.
posted by virve at 3:11 AM on November 23, 2023 [6 favorites]
If you would like to proceed with this person, I would do so by chatting with them for a bit via FB messenger. Don't bring up the TERF stuff or their detransition, just ask them how they are and what they've been doing since the last time you saw them. You can also say something along the lines of, "Sorry my partner and I didn't have time to stop and chat with you that time we ran into you a year or so ago." Having a conversation with them will give you a better sense of what kind of emotional place they're in right now, and help you decide if you want to accept their friend request, and if so, whether it might be best to set boundaries with them (i.e., by telling them your Facebook page has to be a safe space for your trans friends and/or using Facebook's settings to restrict what they can see.) If you decide you don't want to accept the friend request but do wish to stay in touch, you can just keep in touch with them via messenger or text or email or what have you. If you don't want to stay in touch, you can just let the chatting taper off.
Just remember you have the right to decide how much contact you want with this person and to set boundaries, and that you have various technological resources to use to do so, and breathe.
posted by orange swan at 9:09 AM on November 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
Just remember you have the right to decide how much contact you want with this person and to set boundaries, and that you have various technological resources to use to do so, and breathe.
posted by orange swan at 9:09 AM on November 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
It seems like the situation is deeper, on a more intimate (friendship) level than should be handled on Facebook. It may not be comfortable to engage them face-to-face. Can you establish communication by email? They are already aware of your position on TERFs.
At 19/20 years old, they still carry a lot of childhood baggage and very little adult perspective to help them sort through the turmoil you have described. Can they be your friend without blasting you with TERF beliefs? Is that even possible?
Wanting to comfort someone hurting is one thing, but doing so may mean helping them embrace a position hostile to you on a deeply personal level. I see no profit in trying to second-guess their motive in reaching out to you.
In any case, friending them on Facebook is not a good idea.
posted by mule98J at 9:22 AM on November 23, 2023
At 19/20 years old, they still carry a lot of childhood baggage and very little adult perspective to help them sort through the turmoil you have described. Can they be your friend without blasting you with TERF beliefs? Is that even possible?
Wanting to comfort someone hurting is one thing, but doing so may mean helping them embrace a position hostile to you on a deeply personal level. I see no profit in trying to second-guess their motive in reaching out to you.
In any case, friending them on Facebook is not a good idea.
posted by mule98J at 9:22 AM on November 23, 2023
In my years observing teachers in classrooms and schools, and assessing them for universities or education departments, I have found that there are many teachers, particularly women, for whom Alice Miller’s ‘Drama of the Gifted Child’ seems to have been written. Being in a school and around particular age groups often exercises attempts at self-recovery in teachers that ideally should be done in independent therapy.
You are very personally invested in this particular former student, now an adult, and I think you could benefit from taking what this situation has raised in you to your own therapeutic work. People in the caring professions - especially those who work with vulnerable others - need to do this work mindfully and continually to keep abreast of what is psychologically required of us in these professions.
I would advise leaving the friend request. Being admired during our professional time with students does not incur a debt, nor should it involve feeling we must rescue others.
posted by honey-barbara at 6:19 PM on November 23, 2023 [6 favorites]
You are very personally invested in this particular former student, now an adult, and I think you could benefit from taking what this situation has raised in you to your own therapeutic work. People in the caring professions - especially those who work with vulnerable others - need to do this work mindfully and continually to keep abreast of what is psychologically required of us in these professions.
I would advise leaving the friend request. Being admired during our professional time with students does not incur a debt, nor should it involve feeling we must rescue others.
posted by honey-barbara at 6:19 PM on November 23, 2023 [6 favorites]
It feels like you have to act but you really do not. I think your reaction here is pretty extreme and you should not accept this request because your head isn’t clear, and more importantly, I think you should figure out a way to stop overthinking this. Can you take a break from Facebook and intentionally redirect your train of thought when you catch yourself spinning out about this?
I know you were important to this person. Thank god for teachers! But you cannot possibly be the only adult in this other adult’s life; you don’t have to take on a caretaking role here. I’d suggest it seems a little inappropriately enmeshed—and I’m not even talking about the student-teacher dynamic; I’m talking about your rage and certainty and seeming agenda here (and I say this as someone who agrees with the views you’ve expressed here.)
If they really truly need you, they have access to you via other means (that other teacher, for example) and they have access to non-TERF views if that’s what you were hoping to impart. It’s okay to sit this one out. If in 6 months you want to talk to this person you can always contact them. Let it be, for now anyway, is my vote.
posted by kapers at 5:14 PM on November 24, 2023 [3 favorites]
I know you were important to this person. Thank god for teachers! But you cannot possibly be the only adult in this other adult’s life; you don’t have to take on a caretaking role here. I’d suggest it seems a little inappropriately enmeshed—and I’m not even talking about the student-teacher dynamic; I’m talking about your rage and certainty and seeming agenda here (and I say this as someone who agrees with the views you’ve expressed here.)
If they really truly need you, they have access to you via other means (that other teacher, for example) and they have access to non-TERF views if that’s what you were hoping to impart. It’s okay to sit this one out. If in 6 months you want to talk to this person you can always contact them. Let it be, for now anyway, is my vote.
posted by kapers at 5:14 PM on November 24, 2023 [3 favorites]
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That said, I don't think there's anything morally WRONG with keeping lines of communication open with someone whose beliefs you disagree with — in fact, that's really the only way to have a chance of influencing someone's beliefs for the better in the long term. But you are certainly not obligated to do that work if it's highly distressing to you. Sounds like you should disengage quietly for now.
posted by mekily at 12:24 PM on November 22, 2023 [6 favorites]