I think I'm being a bad ally

June 24, 2023 7:05 AM

I'm worried I have mishandled anti-LGBTQ sentiment from an acquaintance and I'm not sure how to move forward.

This past school year, my kindergartner has made a fast friend, which means I have been getting to know this child's parent (we'll call them Kay). I was very surprised and dismayed when Kay expressed some anti-LGBTQ sentiments to me. Their main concern was the placement of some LGBTQ-themed books in the classroom for Pride month. My response to Kay was perhaps a lot softer than it should have been, partly out of shock, and partly because I was concerned about slamming the door shut on our relationship. To be clear, I'm not worried about being good friends with Kay (although I'd like to remain civil), but I thought that if I had a strong response, Kay would never express these concerns to be me again and I would perhaps lose a teaching moment, or opportunity to be available to further questions and concerns they might have. Am I being totally naive and misguided here? I think I have unfortunately given Kay the impression that I am also on the fence about LGBTQ education and events at the school as they keep bringing it up to me and I have no idea how to respond. Am I being a terrible ally by not simply stating that I have no issue with supporting the LGBTQ community at the school? What is the best way for me to respond to Kay if they bring this issue up again?

posted by Rora to Human Relations (21 answers total)

I think that the fact that you have a bad conscience about this should be your guide. Speak out more clearly next time. You don't have to be totally strident, just don't sell your own values out. She presumably feels this way in good faith and out of genuine concern for her kids, which you can honor while still firmly saying that you disagree. You just haven't found your balance yet. Fortunately, it sounds like you'll have lots more opportunities to do so!
posted by branca at 7:14 AM on June 24, 2023 [5 favorites]

Am I being a terrible ally by not simply stating that I have no issue with supporting the LGBTQ community at the school?

You need to do whatever you need to do in order to live your life. That said, as an ally, your role is partially about having these hard and stressful conversations so LGBTQ+ people don't have to. You also need to think about the example you're setting for your child. If they turn out to be LGBTQ+ and they see you waffling on it and hanging out with someone who expresses those views, it might sink in that they're "wrong" for feeling however they're feeling.

"I think LGBTQ+ communities belong in schools and there's no problem with having LGBTQ+ books in the school library" is a simple, clear statement to make. If that's your position, stand by it.

As a member of the LGBTQ+ community myself, I would urge you to not give in to the idea that this is a valid "debate" or "conversation", or even a real cause for concern that they need to have. Do not agree to it, do not allow it to be part of the discussion. LGBTQ+ people are no threat to Kay or their child. They are acting like this due to fearmongering and radicalisation. There's no "debate" here, just people who have been told to hate and fear other people and have decided to do so without thinking about it. Challenging the idea that it's a "debate" or a "conversation" would be a genuinely useful thing for you to do.
posted by fight or flight at 7:18 AM on June 24, 2023 [39 favorites]

It's okay to be startled in the moment! These things are much easier to handle with some agility if you're prepared, which is what you're here doing now.

The phrase I keep in my back pocket now for this is, "If you're looking for agreement from me on this, you're not going to get it". Neutral but firm, non-apologetic. I don't argue with bigots, I just let them know they're not in a safe space.

But I am an anxious person and an introvert, and sometimes I still get startled and what comes out instead is just "Nope!" or "Nuh uh." The tone is a warning, and my body language is often "beginning to turn and walk away".

If Kay is actually good-faith trying to work through this stuff or is trying to get you to signal your position so she can mirror it (a thing people-pleasers often do), she can then follow up and ask for your help understanding it better when she's ready. If she's just a rage addict who likes making people unhappy, you'll also find that out pretty quickly. If she simply understands the reinforcement she's looking for is not going to come from you and she's going to leave it alone and let your kids be friends without causing trouble, you have at least done the important work of reminding her that the entire world is not just like her and she should watch her mouth.
posted by Lyn Never at 7:23 AM on June 24, 2023 [21 favorites]

Give yourself some grace! Our daily lives are a constant challenge of interacting with people with conflicting values, ideas, backgrounds. It's not always easy to navigate. I'm a gay man and I am not entirely clear how to handle a situation like you describe, either. There is value in keeping a conversation going and setting a good example. There's value in letting your kid have friends without complication. And there's value in calling out bigotry when you see it.

My line in the sand is I refuse to let someone enlist me as a fellow thinker. If someone says "those LGBTQ books don't belong here am I right?" I will never say "yes" to that. Most times I will say "no", sometimes I'll look uncomfortable and try to change the subject. Articulate your own opinion when you have the opportunity and never support a bigoted opinion they offer. There's also a lot of power in being the better person, in expressing pro-LGBTQ sentiments when you have an opportunity in a clear way that even if the other parent can't hear it, their kids and other people around you can.

There's a limit to this tolerance and soft opposition; some bigotry needs a more forceful reply. But what you describe from Kay falls short of that line to me. And I'm hopeful that maybe you can do some good by being polite but a clear LGBTQ supporter.
posted by Nelson at 7:51 AM on June 24, 2023 [7 favorites]

Gay man here as well, I agree with what Nelson said and would add: don't beat yourself up with "I should've said XYZ". Take a minute to think about how you would like to respond in a similar situation in the future, which is what you're doing now, and move forward.

Thanks for being thoughtful about how to be a better ally. All of us can always find ways to be better at participating in the building of a just and equitable society.
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:58 AM on June 24, 2023 [13 favorites]

The phrase I use for anxious conflict conversations, which I love, is “we don’t have to agree on this.” I borrowed it from Dr Becky. It’s the best - it clearly states you disagree, but also that you’re not looking for a fight, and also that you’re not going to be persuaded or open to further discussion. Having this phrase in mind as a scaffold for “how to react when I disagree” has helped me free up mental space so I can clearly state my opinion, without losing track of my words, and then wrap up my piece with my go-to phrase.

Edit: although I don’t think this phrase is perfect, it has been a tool that has enabled me to more clearly state conflicting opinions. So I overall consider it a win.
posted by samthemander at 8:14 AM on June 24, 2023 [3 favorites]

You did respond, maybe not as strongly as you'd like. Just being calmly positive about equality makes an impact; humans are very social. It takes practice to get good at stuff. Consider inviting friend and kid to a Pride event, or saying Did you see the Rainbow crosswalk? We love it. or wearing a badge or getting a bumper sticker.
posted by theora55 at 9:00 AM on June 24, 2023 [1 favorite]

I'd be surprised if most people who are trying to be good allies have been caught flat-footed in the moment and failed to say what they wish they had said when they have time to reflect on it.

That's a pretty standard part of human existence overall, right? Looking back and thinking "damn, I did not get it right in that conversation. I should have said ________ instead."

So don't beat yourself up as a "bad" ally - you were imperfect, in the moment.

"What is the best way for me to respond to Kay if they bring this issue up again?"

If this comes up again you have the chance to say something like "you know, I've been thinking about the conversation we had before about LGBTQ issues. I want to be really clear that I am OK with LGBTQ issues being taught in school and I am raising my child to be aware of LGBTQ issues and trying to ensure that they are supportive of the LGBTQ community – whether or not they grow up to be part of that community directly."

And prepare yourself for a possible series of follow-ups ranging from shocked and sullen silence to backtracking to (if we're all lucky) an open conversation where they actually show change.
posted by jzb at 9:01 AM on June 24, 2023 [6 favorites]

As a counter to an above suggestion, please don't bring possibly homophobic people to pride events. She'll give you chances again to offer a better response, and I agree with those that say it is better to say what you like, than to tell her you don't like what she said, so, like, "oh, i love them" if she complains about something she has seen etc.
posted by Iteki at 9:22 AM on June 24, 2023 [11 favorites]

It doesn't sound like you're close enough to Kay to change her mind. However, by calmly and firmly using one of the suggested scripts, you can signal that it's inappropriate to share her bigoted views in mixed company and, just maybe, spare a queer person from hearing her hot takes in the future. I think that should be your goal.

Agreed that it's super normal to be shocked in the moment; you can get there with practice, but it takes time.
posted by toastedcheese at 9:34 AM on June 24, 2023 [4 favorites]

I hate that the politics of right now have given people the idea they have to be the perfect ally in every moment or they've failed us, their queer friends. Thanks for saying something to Kay. If you feel like saying something stronger next time, great. If you'd really torn into Kay, perhaps it just would have made them dig in their heels. It's hard stuff to navigate and you are doing your best and that's great.
posted by less-of-course at 9:34 AM on June 24, 2023 [5 favorites]

Does it help at all to know that queer people also fumble these moments, all the time? Fumbling it doesn’t make you a bad ally. What you do about it going forward can make you a better ally, though. Go right ahead and let Kay know you’re pleased and excited about those events.

Don’t invite Kay to Pride. Actual queer people celebrating their community are not looking to be your teachable moment. But you can tell her how you’re looking forward to it or how great it was, if the opportunity arises!
posted by Stacey at 9:52 AM on June 24, 2023 [8 favorites]

Speak up, but not as an ally. Speak up for your own sake.
posted by spindrifter at 10:59 AM on June 24, 2023 [1 favorite]

Honestly I do think real allyship requires us to counter these statements if it’s safe to do so. BUT nobody is a perfect ally, so that’s not a good standard to hold yourself to.

And it takes actual practice, because it’s unexpected and runs counter to a lot of social conditioning! This one was practice.
posted by kapers at 11:21 AM on June 24, 2023 [3 favorites]

As for how to respond next time, think about what sounds natural for you and in that dynamic, and practice. Is it “oh, actually I support these materials,” “hm, not sure I agree about that,” or “I support lgbtq rights actually.”?

If she already likes you and respects you then your disagreement might land better so there’s some sense to keeping it lighter. I’d keep it short and sweet. You’re not debating her. You’re just registering your highly valid and important differing opinion, and letting her sit with her discomfort—you know, the way she forced you to sit with yours.
posted by kapers at 11:32 AM on June 24, 2023 [2 favorites]

I agree with the general consensus that the thing to do next time is just firmly but politely express your views - no need to confrontational about it.

I'll add that if you want, you could express curiosity as to what's behind Kay's views. In this case, you could ask what she is worried will happen if these books are in the library. Taking someone's concerns seriously is different than suggesting your views are up for debate- and it can be an effective way to have a discussion that might not change her mind immediately, but will at least show you to be willing to listen. And it might present a chance for you to gently correct a misperception, i.e. "Children don't become gay because they read a book about gay people, the value of having books that represent everyone's identity is that it makes everyone feel welcome in the library." or "Given that many of the children in the class no doubt have family or family friends that are LGBTQ+, it seems good to have books that speak to their experience, don't you think?" You aren't likely to actually change her mind in one conversation, but having conversations like this can gradually get people to question or modify somewhat their positions- or at least she might eventually come to view the issue as less "scary."

Relatedly, if your kid is becoming close to Kay's kid, this is likely a good time to start talking to your kid about what they might want to do if they hear something that bothers them or they don't agree with.
posted by coffeecat at 11:42 AM on June 24, 2023 [6 favorites]

I had a similar situation recently where someone I was talking to suddenly and very unexpected voiced extreme anti-trans views. I felt startled and though I attempted to make a point, I felt powerless to affect her position. Afterwards I beat myself up over it but after some time I think that simply replying even relatively calmly and confidently in opposition to what she said was, if not a perfect response, a meaningful one. I didn't try to pacify her, or accommodate her, or change the subject, and I didn't rage and yell (and by doing so likely trivialize myself to her). I doubt I changed her mind but she still experienced real resistance to her perspective.

So don't worry too much about your response in that moment - reading these answers probably gives you lots to think about, and you've likely thought a lot about what you'd say already. Not being perfect is OK, as long as those moments of imperfection create learning and improvement. You're thinking about it and doing better, and that's valuable. Whether it's Kay or another person down the line, you'll be better prepared and more confident the next time this kind of thing is brought up.
posted by BlackLeotardFront at 2:22 PM on June 24, 2023 [2 favorites]

The ally framing can be a bit of a trap. All of us human beings on this earth have an obligation to work for a more just world, because that's what is right, because our survival is entangled with every other person's survival. There's no perfect response to the hateful beliefs that many of us have been taught, but I agree with you that speaking up is important for making the world safer and more democratic and just.

Strategically, I think it's important that we all engage with people who share harmful ideas. You may be able to influence by sharing the value you find in the queer kids books the school is displaying and modeling your own parenting values. Depending on the person, just being direct but low-judgement might have value: "I'm glad my kid gets to read about all the different families out there" or "we thought the books were great." Or if you're feeling brave "What's your concern about those books?" Do share your positive feedback with the school for sharing the books! And consider this parent seems to be actively attempting to recruit others to their cause. So proactively joining with other parents to support a welcoming school environment may have more value and impact than getting overly bogged down in finding the right words to respond to this person.

I'm a lifelong queer and a parent of a queer trans kid and I don't know precisely what you 'should have' said, but I know you're right to keep trying, perhaps trying different angles. And you're right to seek advice.. we need help to figure this stuff out.
posted by latkes at 3:05 PM on June 24, 2023 [4 favorites]

I would perhaps lose a teaching moment

you aren't at all to blame for being shocked and having no rehearsed reaction ready, but the moment did get lost. it could have been a "teaching moment" only if you had reacted as harshly as you believe is warranted, because then they would have learned that their views are considered hateful enough to lose an acquaintance over. you don't learn that by being told, you learn it by having it happen.

when people suppress their natural outrage for the sake of maintaining a relationship, even when they do it with the best strategic intentions, with the idea that they are playing a long game of influence, the lesson the other person learns is that hateful attitudes aren't shocking or taboo to hold or to express, that human rights are a question reasonable people can agree to disagree on, and that people who claim otherwise are just grandstanding.

you don't have to rehearse a whole political/ethical argument for the next time this happens if you have a bad feeling about how that would go. you can simply say something like, That's a horrible thing to say and I am disgusted and disappointed to hear you say it. and if they say But I said it before and you didn't care!, you can say, Yes, I remember, I was so shocked I convinced myself you didn't really mean it, but now I see that you do. goodbye.

or something like that
posted by queenofbithynia at 5:48 PM on June 24, 2023 [2 favorites]

Response by poster: I could mark all as best answers, but instead I will just give sincere thanks to everyone's thoughtful insight.
posted by Rora at 5:42 PM on June 25, 2023

I've frozen up like this in the past. Rather than bring it up again next time in a "I thought more about this and..." kind of way, I've preferred the more sneaky method of slipping LGBTQ+ friends and people and topics into our conversations every single time from then on, always in a tone that assumes this person will be cool with it, obviously, duh, how could there even be any question about that. I guess my goal is to humanize this group of people in their minds? As a way to emphasize that they're part of our community, as mentionable and normal as anyone else, that their struggles are different/more bullshit but also fundamentally the same as ours.

Examples:

- "Did you hear what Kaitlyn's dad is dealing with this week? Apparently the school's start-of-the-year paperwork forces him to choose "Mrs." as the prefix for his husband. What is this, 1983? Sheesh."

- I start using to "they" for every single person, even actors and celebrities. When asked, I say, "Oh, did they specify their preferred pronouns? Let me look it up."

- "Yeah, I hear you, toxic parents are so hard to deal with. My buddy Dave, his birthday was last week, right, and guess what his mom gave him. Now, this a guy who transitioned two whole years ago - and she sends him ... a Victoria's Secret gift card! Like, come on! I mean, okay, she's struggling with all the changes, and she needs time, but how hard is it to send a Starbucks card or just some nice socks? Some people go out of their way to hurt their kids."

... etc.
posted by MiraK at 12:56 PM on June 29, 2023