You are a great human. You handle romantic long distance badly. Why?
January 14, 2023 2:35 PM Subscribe
A new male romantic partner is kind, thoughtful, passionate, and considerate (though also severely depressed) when in person. When at a distance, however, he is incredibly distant - barely texts, doesn't call much, and when he engages, it is not in a romantic way. Looking for anecdata: if you are a person like this, or have dated a person like this, what are some charitable reasons this might be happening? Bonus question: how can I deal with this? Details, of course, abound.
The partner is a male, in his 40s, who had a somewhat traditional WASPy Midwestern upbringing, looks to John Wayne as a role model, and once told someone else that 'men aren't allowed to talk about their negative emotions'. In person, he is not merely thoughtful but *incredibly* so - attentive to the faintest hint of needs. For those who ascribe to such things, his "love language" is undoubtedly acts of service and he does a *lot* of physical actions and things for me, but he also will, while in person, use terms of endearment, talk about how lucky he feels, how important I am to him, how desperately in love with me he is, etc. However, he will also say things like "I know you're going to get tired of me", express how many men out there would be better for me (not depressed, wealthier, have a nicer house, etc, these are his standards not mine), said that he doesn't think that he gets to have a happy life, and we haven't formalized the relationship (ie, not officially boyfriend/girlfriend).
However, we live *very* far apart - far apart that we cannot drive to see each other - and I am seeing a confusing dramatic shift when we are apart that I can't explain. Absolutely no terms of endearment other than saying 'I love you' at the end of phone calls - mostly, though not always, initiated by me. Most phone calls are short, maybe twenty minutes or so (we were friends prior, and often talked for hours). No texting of 'I miss you' or anything like that. If I text something that references our romantic engagement, he just doesn't engage with that aspect of it. This started within days of my leaving, and is *really freaking me out* - on my last long visit, we talked about possibly moving in together, and I left clothes at his place at his encouragement.
Other data points:
- he has trauma from previous physically abusive partners
- he dislikes having 'relationship talks'.
I would like to think of some possible charitable reasons rather than the negative reasons that my anxiety brain is coming up with (He doesn't really love me! he regrets getting romantically involved! He has met another woman!), and also figure out either how to change this behavior, or how to deal with the anxiety that this behavior is creating. ('Just talk about it openly', though my preference, is not an option, if I try to initiate a conversation like that he will manufacture an excuse and hurry off the phone.)
The partner is a male, in his 40s, who had a somewhat traditional WASPy Midwestern upbringing, looks to John Wayne as a role model, and once told someone else that 'men aren't allowed to talk about their negative emotions'. In person, he is not merely thoughtful but *incredibly* so - attentive to the faintest hint of needs. For those who ascribe to such things, his "love language" is undoubtedly acts of service and he does a *lot* of physical actions and things for me, but he also will, while in person, use terms of endearment, talk about how lucky he feels, how important I am to him, how desperately in love with me he is, etc. However, he will also say things like "I know you're going to get tired of me", express how many men out there would be better for me (not depressed, wealthier, have a nicer house, etc, these are his standards not mine), said that he doesn't think that he gets to have a happy life, and we haven't formalized the relationship (ie, not officially boyfriend/girlfriend).
However, we live *very* far apart - far apart that we cannot drive to see each other - and I am seeing a confusing dramatic shift when we are apart that I can't explain. Absolutely no terms of endearment other than saying 'I love you' at the end of phone calls - mostly, though not always, initiated by me. Most phone calls are short, maybe twenty minutes or so (we were friends prior, and often talked for hours). No texting of 'I miss you' or anything like that. If I text something that references our romantic engagement, he just doesn't engage with that aspect of it. This started within days of my leaving, and is *really freaking me out* - on my last long visit, we talked about possibly moving in together, and I left clothes at his place at his encouragement.
Other data points:
- he has trauma from previous physically abusive partners
- he dislikes having 'relationship talks'.
I would like to think of some possible charitable reasons rather than the negative reasons that my anxiety brain is coming up with (He doesn't really love me! he regrets getting romantically involved! He has met another woman!), and also figure out either how to change this behavior, or how to deal with the anxiety that this behavior is creating. ('Just talk about it openly', though my preference, is not an option, if I try to initiate a conversation like that he will manufacture an excuse and hurry off the phone.)
You mention that he's severely depressed. Everything you've written could be explained by that.
On some level, he knows his behaviour causes problems. That's why he keeps saying you'll get tired of him.
The trick is going to be getting a man who admires John Wayne and dislikes relationship talks to understand that this is a problem that needs fixing rather than some macho burden to bear.
This is a common problem. Here's an American Psychological Association article about if from 2005: Helping men to help themselves.
One of the things that really changed my attitude to therapy was seeing Commander Chris Hadfield, commander of the International Space Station, talk about how they conducted repairs. Basically, if they found a small leak, they fixed it before it became a big leak. And I realised that mental health problems are no different.
Your man has a leak. Is he going to ignore it, while it gets worse and worse? Or is he going to fix it?
posted by davidwitteveen at 3:06 PM on January 14, 2023 [19 favorites]
On some level, he knows his behaviour causes problems. That's why he keeps saying you'll get tired of him.
The trick is going to be getting a man who admires John Wayne and dislikes relationship talks to understand that this is a problem that needs fixing rather than some macho burden to bear.
This is a common problem. Here's an American Psychological Association article about if from 2005: Helping men to help themselves.
One of the things that really changed my attitude to therapy was seeing Commander Chris Hadfield, commander of the International Space Station, talk about how they conducted repairs. Basically, if they found a small leak, they fixed it before it became a big leak. And I realised that mental health problems are no different.
Your man has a leak. Is he going to ignore it, while it gets worse and worse? Or is he going to fix it?
posted by davidwitteveen at 3:06 PM on January 14, 2023 [19 favorites]
The way to end the anxiety about this relationship is to end the relationship.
It's not giving you what you need. He should be your partner, not your project.
posted by Sublimity at 3:07 PM on January 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
It's not giving you what you need. He should be your partner, not your project.
posted by Sublimity at 3:07 PM on January 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
Best answer: I don't get into long distance relationships anymore because I find them too painful. I miss my partner SO MUCH that I steel myself to it. Talking to them on the phone reminds me of everything I'm missing and makes me feel even worse. So I tend to withdraw and prefer not to interact at all until we can see each other.
posted by metasarah at 3:16 PM on January 14, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by metasarah at 3:16 PM on January 14, 2023 [10 favorites]
Depressed or not, some people just don’t consider long-distance/ virtual
dating/ relationships to be real. He is probably much more comfortable being with you in person. Personally, I consider texting to be a very distancing form of communication. I don’t know many men who like having talks about the relationship.
Would you be able to meet half-way or go on a vacation together? Or else, break up, I guess.
posted by Ideefixe at 3:17 PM on January 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
dating/ relationships to be real. He is probably much more comfortable being with you in person. Personally, I consider texting to be a very distancing form of communication. I don’t know many men who like having talks about the relationship.
Would you be able to meet half-way or go on a vacation together? Or else, break up, I guess.
posted by Ideefixe at 3:17 PM on January 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
He knows it’s a problem, which is why he keeps mentioning that you’ll leave him, he knows he’s depressed too but he won’t talk about either of these things and doesn’t seem to be taking steps to change (eg therapy) or fix it. You can’t do the work for him and he won’t do it himself so unless you want to be miserable forever, leaving is really your only option.
Ideally next time you’ll find a man whose already done the work on himself before entering a relationship, instead of guilting you into staying while refusing to work on the relationship. If someone won’t do relationship talks then they’re not mature enough to be in a relationship. That alone is enough to end it for me much less everything else.
posted by Jubey at 3:26 PM on January 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
Ideally next time you’ll find a man whose already done the work on himself before entering a relationship, instead of guilting you into staying while refusing to work on the relationship. If someone won’t do relationship talks then they’re not mature enough to be in a relationship. That alone is enough to end it for me much less everything else.
posted by Jubey at 3:26 PM on January 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
My main worry is that he’s only able to show up for you in small, time-limited doses, and his treatment of you while long-distance is really his “norm.” I would not be okay with that as the norm and it sounds like you wouldn’t either. Also, I may be reading too much into it but he seems to be pretty extreme in the way he does show up for you—is it kind of over the top? Would you be happier with a happy medium all the time than with extremes all the time?
A charitable reading is that he’s too depressed and gets even more depressed while you’re apart. What’s he doing to change either circumstance?
posted by kapers at 3:31 PM on January 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
A charitable reading is that he’s too depressed and gets even more depressed while you’re apart. What’s he doing to change either circumstance?
posted by kapers at 3:31 PM on January 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
I missed your last parenthetical. He won’t discuss your relationship at all? It’s super necessary to check in about relationship issues especially while long distance.
Making excuses to get off the phone makes him sound comically juvenile or like the thing you don’t want to think (has a gf or something already.) Ugh.
posted by kapers at 3:38 PM on January 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
Making excuses to get off the phone makes him sound comically juvenile or like the thing you don’t want to think (has a gf or something already.) Ugh.
posted by kapers at 3:38 PM on January 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: So, not to threadsit but just to clarify one point: I know he didn't already have another girlfriend at least before I left, because I was there for a pretty extended period - several weeks, where I was essentially living with him full time to see what moving in would be like. That's why I find this all so strange.
posted by sockmeamadeus at 3:48 PM on January 14, 2023
posted by sockmeamadeus at 3:48 PM on January 14, 2023
Best answer: just another data point - I know someone (male, 50's, American, not depressed) who is lovely and attentive in person but simply detests talking on the phone, texting, emailing, and all that. He'll make an effort but it's still like pulling teeth. It's just the way he is.
All this is to say, it doesn't mean your guy doesn't care, but it might mean that it is not possible to start a relationship with him long-distance.
posted by dum spiro spero at 3:52 PM on January 14, 2023 [33 favorites]
All this is to say, it doesn't mean your guy doesn't care, but it might mean that it is not possible to start a relationship with him long-distance.
posted by dum spiro spero at 3:52 PM on January 14, 2023 [33 favorites]
The trick is going to be getting a man who admires John Wayne and dislikes relationship talks to understand that this is a problem that needs fixing rather than some macho burden to bear.
I don't think a partner, especially a relatively new partner, can generally accomplish this on their own. You cannot spend years trying to coax someone into remedial humaning, not in a mutually respectful relationship between peers. And you can't solve his depression for him, especially if he is opposed to seeking treatment (sounds like he is). It's sad, and I don't think he's cheating on you, or doesn't care for you, but this is not a person capable of a happy, healthy long-term relationship right now. Do not get dragged down by this undertow.
posted by praemunire at 3:55 PM on January 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
I don't think a partner, especially a relatively new partner, can generally accomplish this on their own. You cannot spend years trying to coax someone into remedial humaning, not in a mutually respectful relationship between peers. And you can't solve his depression for him, especially if he is opposed to seeking treatment (sounds like he is). It's sad, and I don't think he's cheating on you, or doesn't care for you, but this is not a person capable of a happy, healthy long-term relationship right now. Do not get dragged down by this undertow.
posted by praemunire at 3:55 PM on January 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
I know it's a "popular" diagnosis these days, but I immediately thought ADHD - specifically the inattentive type, where "out of sight == out of mind" is very prevalent. If you're not there, it can be like you almost no longer exist - and the long-distance communications perhaps aren't enough to get him into the same mental state of awareness as if it was in person.
posted by cgg at 4:03 PM on January 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by cgg at 4:03 PM on January 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
Going with your request for positive spins: unless you both agreed up front that this relationship was a candidate for evolving into something permanent, his actions while apart seem to me like some of the features of a LDR, not a bug. I've been in LDRs, and not having to do all the relationship stuff while apart is one reason they're appealing. I have a full and busy life. Getting my doses of "relationship" in predictable chunks has worked for me at various times. So it could be that his really romantic times with you are what he has the time and energy for.
But since you mention depression, I think an aspect of that can be that you deal with what you absolutely have to on any given day. When you're not present, you are not a critical item to attend to. It doesn't sound like he dislikes you, rather that he's only got so many spoons.
posted by cocoagirl at 4:06 PM on January 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
But since you mention depression, I think an aspect of that can be that you deal with what you absolutely have to on any given day. When you're not present, you are not a critical item to attend to. It doesn't sound like he dislikes you, rather that he's only got so many spoons.
posted by cocoagirl at 4:06 PM on January 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
Best answer: 1. This is an inherent feature of LDRs.
2. This is an inherent feature of people who have difficulty expressing emotions.
3. This is an inherent feature of people who have difficulty with intimacy expressed electronically or virtually as opposed to in person.
4. This is an inherent feature of people who are depressed.
5. This is an inherent feature of people who are exhausted.
posted by desert exile at 4:10 PM on January 14, 2023 [14 favorites]
2. This is an inherent feature of people who have difficulty expressing emotions.
3. This is an inherent feature of people who have difficulty with intimacy expressed electronically or virtually as opposed to in person.
4. This is an inherent feature of people who are depressed.
5. This is an inherent feature of people who are exhausted.
posted by desert exile at 4:10 PM on January 14, 2023 [14 favorites]
"looks to John Wayne as a role model" - there's your problem.
Is the role mode John Wayne, the person? Or John Wayne, the characters played on film by the actor who used that name? What, specifically, does he find worth emulating: the fact that he always is the winner in the movies he appears in or more substantive beliefs? If it's the former, he's not mature enough for a relationship. If it's the latter, might you want to contemplate which of those beliefs you share, and why?
As to being "incredibly" attentive, he'd kind of have to be if he absolutely refuses to use words.
He sounds to me like an unnecessary complication rather than a boyfriend, but what a great opportunity for contemplation he provides! You can grow LOTS while you bash your head against his strong silent ways and idealized masculine reserve. Not grow happy, but grow wise. That's an ok way of doing things, I guess.
posted by Shunra at 4:11 PM on January 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
Is the role mode John Wayne, the person? Or John Wayne, the characters played on film by the actor who used that name? What, specifically, does he find worth emulating: the fact that he always is the winner in the movies he appears in or more substantive beliefs? If it's the former, he's not mature enough for a relationship. If it's the latter, might you want to contemplate which of those beliefs you share, and why?
As to being "incredibly" attentive, he'd kind of have to be if he absolutely refuses to use words.
He sounds to me like an unnecessary complication rather than a boyfriend, but what a great opportunity for contemplation he provides! You can grow LOTS while you bash your head against his strong silent ways and idealized masculine reserve. Not grow happy, but grow wise. That's an ok way of doing things, I guess.
posted by Shunra at 4:11 PM on January 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
Best answer: I do poorly in long-distance relationships, and don’t do well with texting or voice calls as a primary means of emotional communication. For whatever reason, I have trouble remaining emotionally connected without being physically present on a regular basis. I definitely feel like I’m making an effort, but have trouble sustaining the connection and have received feedback that I seem distant.
This extends beyond romantic relationships, btw, and made the early pandemic especially challenging as several friendships and familial relationships became more distant.
One thing that helped me was increasing the frequency of video calls for close relationships. Still not as good as being physically in the same space, but definitely helped with increasing duration and emotional scope of conversations vs what I could manage on the phone.
However — I also try to avoid long-distance relationships precisely because I know I’m bad at them. I don’t know if replacing nightly phone calls with nightly video calls would do all the work of making a romantic partner feel more cared for. So I don’t suggest that as a solution, so much as a data point.
I’m in my late 30s and a cisgender male, though I don’t admire John Wayne and do believe in conversations about emotions. :-) But to the extent this may be generational I might be close-ish.
posted by learning from frequent failure at 4:16 PM on January 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
This extends beyond romantic relationships, btw, and made the early pandemic especially challenging as several friendships and familial relationships became more distant.
One thing that helped me was increasing the frequency of video calls for close relationships. Still not as good as being physically in the same space, but definitely helped with increasing duration and emotional scope of conversations vs what I could manage on the phone.
However — I also try to avoid long-distance relationships precisely because I know I’m bad at them. I don’t know if replacing nightly phone calls with nightly video calls would do all the work of making a romantic partner feel more cared for. So I don’t suggest that as a solution, so much as a data point.
I’m in my late 30s and a cisgender male, though I don’t admire John Wayne and do believe in conversations about emotions. :-) But to the extent this may be generational I might be close-ish.
posted by learning from frequent failure at 4:16 PM on January 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
This is a new relationship that isn't formalized yet you are thinking of moving to be with him? And he is pushing you away and unwilling to discuss relationship-y things? There is a lot going on here that would be difficult even if you lived blocks from each other, and the distance, I'm thinking, probably amplifies it.
The only kind of "positive" take I can drum up is that ya'll might be moving too fast and he's trying to pump breaks at a distance because that's when it's emotionally easiest. The shift in dynamic from friends to lovers is not always an easy one to manage.
I think the last time I attempted an LDR was when I was in grad school, and it failed because I was already unhappy and ultimately didn't want to be in a relationship with that person anymore, but was too immature to break it off until many hurt feelings were had.
posted by sm1tten at 4:25 PM on January 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
The only kind of "positive" take I can drum up is that ya'll might be moving too fast and he's trying to pump breaks at a distance because that's when it's emotionally easiest. The shift in dynamic from friends to lovers is not always an easy one to manage.
I think the last time I attempted an LDR was when I was in grad school, and it failed because I was already unhappy and ultimately didn't want to be in a relationship with that person anymore, but was too immature to break it off until many hurt feelings were had.
posted by sm1tten at 4:25 PM on January 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
Best answer: If you want this guy, he is yours.
Everything you say about the lack of expression when you are away screams fear of losing you so desperate he can’t bear to put any weight on the bond between you at all out of terror that it is already stretched too far and will snap and cause him to plunge into the depths.
In time, I believe this will resolve itself, but I could certainly understand not having the patience to wait for that.
The most serious drawback I see for you is that he is placing a very unfair burden on you to step back from the relationship, see what’s going on, and take the steps necessary to make things work.
In other words, he is forcing you to be the adult as he acts out his insecurities. For the relationship to be enduring and truly healthy, he will need to get over his insecurities and meet you as an equal, and that will take work on his part.
posted by jamjam at 4:42 PM on January 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
Everything you say about the lack of expression when you are away screams fear of losing you so desperate he can’t bear to put any weight on the bond between you at all out of terror that it is already stretched too far and will snap and cause him to plunge into the depths.
In time, I believe this will resolve itself, but I could certainly understand not having the patience to wait for that.
The most serious drawback I see for you is that he is placing a very unfair burden on you to step back from the relationship, see what’s going on, and take the steps necessary to make things work.
In other words, he is forcing you to be the adult as he acts out his insecurities. For the relationship to be enduring and truly healthy, he will need to get over his insecurities and meet you as an equal, and that will take work on his part.
posted by jamjam at 4:42 PM on January 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: I should also add, just because I realize I forgot to put it in the info, that he was the one who initiated all of the more heavy-commitment talk, though I was enthused about it. Some of the things that he has talked about wanting are pretty permanent if a while down the road. We have been friends (and there has been romantic tension) for a while, so it's new, but not exactly new.
posted by sockmeamadeus at 4:46 PM on January 14, 2023
posted by sockmeamadeus at 4:46 PM on January 14, 2023
He is the person you should be having this back-and-forth with, not us. The fact that he's unwilling to basically means your relationship is doomed. There are plenty of possible reasons why but ultimately they don't matter. I'm sorry it's so hard, and I wish you the best of luck. The bait-and-switch that avoidant people do is extra hurtful but hardly surprising. You did nothing wrong; you two are just a bad match. No amount of playing therapist will solve the problems of someone willing or unable to work on themselves. This guy sounds tricky but maybe it's just an incompatibility? My question is why you want to try to save this situationship so badly? Do you worry you can't find better? Again, my heart goes out to you because I've certainly been there myself and it's brutal.
posted by smorgasbord at 4:55 PM on January 14, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by smorgasbord at 4:55 PM on January 14, 2023 [8 favorites]
see, for me, the "guy doesn't perform LDR well" is the least of it. A lot of decent loving people don't do LDR well.
The rest of it, however, is a deal breaker parade:
he will also say things like "I know you're going to get tired of me", express how many men out there would be better for me (not depressed, wealthier, have a nicer house, etc, these are his standards not mine), said that he doesn't think that he gets to have a happy life
If he was a good prospect for a solid partnership, I'd be encouraging you to just solve the distance problem and go for it. But pulling up your roots for a dude who's already warning you that he can't be happy? Not a good idea. Pull the plug on this.
posted by fingersandtoes at 5:25 PM on January 14, 2023 [15 favorites]
The rest of it, however, is a deal breaker parade:
he will also say things like "I know you're going to get tired of me", express how many men out there would be better for me (not depressed, wealthier, have a nicer house, etc, these are his standards not mine), said that he doesn't think that he gets to have a happy life
If he was a good prospect for a solid partnership, I'd be encouraging you to just solve the distance problem and go for it. But pulling up your roots for a dude who's already warning you that he can't be happy? Not a good idea. Pull the plug on this.
posted by fingersandtoes at 5:25 PM on January 14, 2023 [15 favorites]
If he can't show you affection and attention when you're not there in person, this is crap for a relationship. I don't think this is going to last. In town fuckbuddy on occasion may be as much as he can do.
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:28 PM on January 14, 2023
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:28 PM on January 14, 2023
I agree with fingersandtoes - lots of people are bad at LDRs, romantic or platonic, and the only person who knows why he's behaving as he is right now is him - so you need to ask him, not us.
But, his resistance to talking about relationships, constantly being down on himself and saying you'll leave him, and not being willing to call your relationship 'official' (but willing to make plans to live together??) all seems to indicate someone who isn't ready to be in a relationship. And this guy is 40? Not that 40-year-olds can't change, but they generally need to want to change, and nothing you've written suggests that's the case here.
posted by coffeecat at 5:37 PM on January 14, 2023 [5 favorites]
But, his resistance to talking about relationships, constantly being down on himself and saying you'll leave him, and not being willing to call your relationship 'official' (but willing to make plans to live together??) all seems to indicate someone who isn't ready to be in a relationship. And this guy is 40? Not that 40-year-olds can't change, but they generally need to want to change, and nothing you've written suggests that's the case here.
posted by coffeecat at 5:37 PM on January 14, 2023 [5 favorites]
I am eerily and unavoidably reminded of these questions. In particular, both the being down on himself and the quick and enthusiastic escalation of the relationship. I'm sorry - I'm really sorry, this sucks - but these are not great signs for a healthy relationship.
It may be his depression! But it also may be that he can't be a good partner to you right now whatever the reason. I'd slow things waaaaaay down and see where it goes.
posted by restless_nomad at 5:43 PM on January 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
It may be his depression! But it also may be that he can't be a good partner to you right now whatever the reason. I'd slow things waaaaaay down and see where it goes.
posted by restless_nomad at 5:43 PM on January 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
There are a lot of red flags here (I mean, John Wayne as a role model?), but if you set them all aside, you're still left with the reality that not everyone likes or is good at long distance relationships. Even more so given that it sounds like you have a particular vision of how this would work (like long phone calls, lots of endearments, talking about feelings, etc.) that is not going to be what everyone is wanting in that situation.
If you are looking for a solid long distance relationship of the type you seem to want, I don't think you are going to get it. If you have a path to being in person, then things might work (again, setting aside all the red flags that are waving in the wind).
posted by Dip Flash at 5:51 PM on January 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
If you are looking for a solid long distance relationship of the type you seem to want, I don't think you are going to get it. If you have a path to being in person, then things might work (again, setting aside all the red flags that are waving in the wind).
posted by Dip Flash at 5:51 PM on January 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Re: looking for a positive spin. As a person who grew up with military parent who was frequently deployed, then joined the military and married a military person, being okay when your person is away is just a life skill. You love them, you miss them, you function in your day to date as if they don't exist for the most part. Not cheating or anything but during the daily activities your mind doesn't go to them. That thing that people do where they think of their partner and want to tell them about something that happened in their day, just doesn't happen. That's one possibility; he is just really good a coping with being apart.
Another possibility, now that I am in a relationship with someone with ADHD, when we were doing a LDR he totally had the "out of sight, out of mind" thing happening. If I called him, he was glad to talk. If I needed him he drove hours to be there for me. But day to day, I dont think I was necessarily top of his mind.
Now all that said, I was in a relationship with a different guy once who said similar things as your guy, had similar beliefs/role models, and behaved in similar ways. The "you don't want me" pity seeking comments turned into passive aggressive controlling behaviors over time. It's a pretty big red flag for me. Just be careful.
posted by CleverClover at 7:04 PM on January 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
Another possibility, now that I am in a relationship with someone with ADHD, when we were doing a LDR he totally had the "out of sight, out of mind" thing happening. If I called him, he was glad to talk. If I needed him he drove hours to be there for me. But day to day, I dont think I was necessarily top of his mind.
Now all that said, I was in a relationship with a different guy once who said similar things as your guy, had similar beliefs/role models, and behaved in similar ways. The "you don't want me" pity seeking comments turned into passive aggressive controlling behaviors over time. It's a pretty big red flag for me. Just be careful.
posted by CleverClover at 7:04 PM on January 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
Best answer: I don't think there's a lot people who aren't there can tell you about whether this is viable or not—the two of you need to talk more about this. Specifically, as unromantic as this sounds, you need to tell him exactly what is important for you during a long-distance relationship. (My credentials: I got through one for three years with my now-wife, seeing her a couple times a year.) Not even just "I need you to be more romantic" or something vague like that, specifics about what you'd like.
I suggest that because in my experience as a man there are two personality types hiding behind the symptom of "bad at LDRs." One of them is just somebody who is just proactively bad at that stuff, doesn't talk on the phone well, doesn't text well, etc. The other is somebody who just doesn't think about it; it's not important to them, even if they're fully committed, and they're not going to assume it's important to you because they're fully committed and they know it even if neither of you hears from the other for two days, so you must, too. I'm an "acts of service" guy, I guess, if I'm anything, and when somebody is several hours by car away from you there's only so much you can do for them. I didn't (usually) wallow over it, though, I just wouldn't think about it.
When either of those types hears specifics about what you need they can work on providing them. The first one can work to improve their phone manner or whatever—and I know you guys talked a lot before, but there's something different about talking on the phone to a romantic partner vs a friend who will eventually become a romantic partner... I guess for my wife and I, who have very similar personalities, it's just that when you have two entirely separate lives there's an incredible amount to talk about, but when your lives are more oriented together (even if you have a lot of new material from living apart) there's less of a Need to talk when you're not together. The second type, who maybe has it easier, can use what you've told them to change their behavior. With something like that, I've found that it's easier to "improvise" and do unexpected little things once you know the basics of what the other person wants.
posted by Polycarp at 7:18 PM on January 14, 2023
I suggest that because in my experience as a man there are two personality types hiding behind the symptom of "bad at LDRs." One of them is just somebody who is just proactively bad at that stuff, doesn't talk on the phone well, doesn't text well, etc. The other is somebody who just doesn't think about it; it's not important to them, even if they're fully committed, and they're not going to assume it's important to you because they're fully committed and they know it even if neither of you hears from the other for two days, so you must, too. I'm an "acts of service" guy, I guess, if I'm anything, and when somebody is several hours by car away from you there's only so much you can do for them. I didn't (usually) wallow over it, though, I just wouldn't think about it.
When either of those types hears specifics about what you need they can work on providing them. The first one can work to improve their phone manner or whatever—and I know you guys talked a lot before, but there's something different about talking on the phone to a romantic partner vs a friend who will eventually become a romantic partner... I guess for my wife and I, who have very similar personalities, it's just that when you have two entirely separate lives there's an incredible amount to talk about, but when your lives are more oriented together (even if you have a lot of new material from living apart) there's less of a Need to talk when you're not together. The second type, who maybe has it easier, can use what you've told them to change their behavior. With something like that, I've found that it's easier to "improvise" and do unexpected little things once you know the basics of what the other person wants.
posted by Polycarp at 7:18 PM on January 14, 2023
It doesn’t necessarily matter if there are charitable reasons for it or not; the behavior doesn’t work for you and it seems like talking it through with him to see if he would be up for trying to change it isn’t possible.
posted by needs more cowbell at 7:40 PM on January 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by needs more cowbell at 7:40 PM on January 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
Best answer: You asked for anecdata so here we go:
A lot of these behaviors sound familiar to me. I don't, for whatever reason, really enjoy (in fact, strongly dislike) relationship conversations over text and phone. Flirting, fine. Chatting, fine. Sending memes and "hey, did you see this" also great.
"Let's talk about the relationship a lot" no. I just don't wanna do "heavy" stuff over text or phone. It may be in part because they feel like they need to have all the types of communication in place (touch, facial expressions) to feel safe communicating about that stuff.
It may also be easier for your friend to compartmentalize the distance if they're not engaging as much or trying to simulate being there, if that makes sense.
Also, when my spouse is away, I kinda like to just do my own thing. Not quite the same thing, because we're married and have been together a number of years now, but it doesn't speak to how I feel about her. It just seems like we should be doing our own things when not together, and then it's nicer when we're together again.
By the time you're in your 40s you can pick up a lot of relationship baggage and quirks. Talk it through. Don't expect radical change, but stick to your guns about what you need and if this fella isn't capable of it, then don't go moving in together and think strongly about moving on.
(I'm also agreeing with others that there are some other red flags. But specifically the not texting and short phone calls... that isn't necessarily a red flag IMO.)
LDRs are tough.
posted by jzb at 7:52 PM on January 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
A lot of these behaviors sound familiar to me. I don't, for whatever reason, really enjoy (in fact, strongly dislike) relationship conversations over text and phone. Flirting, fine. Chatting, fine. Sending memes and "hey, did you see this" also great.
"Let's talk about the relationship a lot" no. I just don't wanna do "heavy" stuff over text or phone. It may be in part because they feel like they need to have all the types of communication in place (touch, facial expressions) to feel safe communicating about that stuff.
It may also be easier for your friend to compartmentalize the distance if they're not engaging as much or trying to simulate being there, if that makes sense.
Also, when my spouse is away, I kinda like to just do my own thing. Not quite the same thing, because we're married and have been together a number of years now, but it doesn't speak to how I feel about her. It just seems like we should be doing our own things when not together, and then it's nicer when we're together again.
By the time you're in your 40s you can pick up a lot of relationship baggage and quirks. Talk it through. Don't expect radical change, but stick to your guns about what you need and if this fella isn't capable of it, then don't go moving in together and think strongly about moving on.
(I'm also agreeing with others that there are some other red flags. But specifically the not texting and short phone calls... that isn't necessarily a red flag IMO.)
LDRs are tough.
posted by jzb at 7:52 PM on January 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
Attachment styles may not have the cache of a few years ago, but if he’s someone with an avoidant attachment style, it means that a big part of the allure of your relationship is that it’s safe because it’s at a distance. He can be so loving and giving in person precisely because it’s not a full time thing.
posted by bluedaisy at 8:34 PM on January 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by bluedaisy at 8:34 PM on January 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
Any chance he has ADHD?
I do, and we functionally don't have object permanence for people. It's not intentional and it doesn't mean we don't love you. Our brains just don't do long-distance relationships or friendships well.
posted by Jacqueline at 10:18 PM on January 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
I do, and we functionally don't have object permanence for people. It's not intentional and it doesn't mean we don't love you. Our brains just don't do long-distance relationships or friendships well.
posted by Jacqueline at 10:18 PM on January 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
Like bluedaisy, I came in here to mention attachment styles too. A video I watched suggested that avoidant attachment styles are often warm and engaging in person, but distant otherwise.
posted by Ms. Moonlight at 3:58 AM on January 15, 2023
posted by Ms. Moonlight at 3:58 AM on January 15, 2023
Oh boy; I read this and I got anxiety for the entire situation. I think I've written at least two different responses but the reality of this situation is:
you are not happy with this person and you have every gosh darned right to be happy in a relationship.
I think you know you need to break up. If not, I'm telling you: you need to break up. Sifting through everything you've written, it comes down to you are in a relationship that is making you unhappy and you're trying to figure out how to be more happy in the situation. What are the magic words? What could be reasons he is not attentive? How can you better cope with not getting your needs met? Should you change your needs?
All of this is crazy-making. You don't need this.
He is surely a nice enough person but time has passed and it's clear this isn't working FOR YOU. And that's okay. Just end things. I'm sorry; I don't think this is the response you're looking for but I think it's what you need to hear.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 5:45 AM on January 15, 2023 [4 favorites]
you are not happy with this person and you have every gosh darned right to be happy in a relationship.
I think you know you need to break up. If not, I'm telling you: you need to break up. Sifting through everything you've written, it comes down to you are in a relationship that is making you unhappy and you're trying to figure out how to be more happy in the situation. What are the magic words? What could be reasons he is not attentive? How can you better cope with not getting your needs met? Should you change your needs?
All of this is crazy-making. You don't need this.
He is surely a nice enough person but time has passed and it's clear this isn't working FOR YOU. And that's okay. Just end things. I'm sorry; I don't think this is the response you're looking for but I think it's what you need to hear.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 5:45 AM on January 15, 2023 [4 favorites]
1. Some people are bad at long distance relationships. I've ended up in them for extended periods of time in my life and have been somewhat like your SO - strongly affectionate in-person but distant while remote. At this point I just turn down LDRs because I know I suck at them.
2. Some of what you're describing is very common in how midwestern men are taught to express themselves (or rather, not express themselves). A lot of what you describe sounds like my father's extended, rural, midwestern family. I think some of my father's brothers would rather cut out their tongue than say "I love you" to their wives on the phone.
3. You deserve to be happy in relationships and you're not. By their 40s, most people are who they're going to be for the rest of their lives. Even with the most charitable reading of his intentions, I don't hear an exit plan from the LDR situation. It's not making you happy, it doesn't seem like it's going to end, so why keep going?
posted by Candleman at 7:53 AM on January 15, 2023
2. Some of what you're describing is very common in how midwestern men are taught to express themselves (or rather, not express themselves). A lot of what you describe sounds like my father's extended, rural, midwestern family. I think some of my father's brothers would rather cut out their tongue than say "I love you" to their wives on the phone.
3. You deserve to be happy in relationships and you're not. By their 40s, most people are who they're going to be for the rest of their lives. Even with the most charitable reading of his intentions, I don't hear an exit plan from the LDR situation. It's not making you happy, it doesn't seem like it's going to end, so why keep going?
posted by Candleman at 7:53 AM on January 15, 2023
Are you dating my ex?
I agree completely with restless_nomad that your question is very similar to an earlier one of mine about a partner with nearly identical behavior to yours (minus admiring John Wayne). I can say with confidence that the physical distance is not the issue here, only a symptom. The emotional distance is the issue. I would bet that his behavior would still be the same towards you even if you lived 2 blocks from each other.
And let me also ask, has it been you who has always been the one travelling to see him? Or has he also come to you and reciprocated that effort? You mentioned doing a trial period of moving-in to his place. When you had this discussion initially, was your place an option? If so, did he feel that his place was a better choice due to it being familiar, comfortable, and/or not requiring any distance to travel? Has he ever lived with a partner before? If you've ever exhibited "extreme" emotions (heavy crying, etc.), does this make him uncomfortable and he doesn't know how to handle it? Is he "allowed" to have these same extreme emotions and expects you to just accept him as he is?
I understand the depression and feeling like you'll never be happy. I struggle with depression, as well. But, I've been seeking help for the past year, and had to make the effort to do so. My most recent ex also has depression, and had a good therapist at one point, but now doesn't and hasn't sought out another. So instead, the claims of being broken, an unlovable creature, unable to be happy or make a partner happy, etc. were prominent and consistent. They were also a form of self-pity, and a way to ensure that I would reassure and console him, instead of him having to do the work himself. It's simply easier that way.
Just for some anecdotal data, I have a (cisgender heterosexual) male friend in his 40's who also struggled with depression. He used to have more of an Avoidant attachment style, similar to your partner. Then he sought help and worked on himself for years, and only now finally feels that he's ready to date again and be a viable partner for someone else. Not just receive the love, attention, and desire from a partner, but to provide it, as well. And he now considers himself to be vulnerable and sensitive, whereas years ago he wouldn't even go near acknowledging those feelings. He says he's now happy, and doesn't know what he was thinking then. He also has excellent boundaries for himself, knows what he will and will not tolerate from a potential partner (dealbreakers), and is able to walk away immediately from a prospective candidate if they exhibit any of these behaviors. It's incredibly inspiring.
All of this is a long way of saying: It is not your responsibility to do the work for him. Or to "fix" him (I'm guilty of this too). He has to want to change himself as a primary step, and then as a secondary step, has to actually execute a plan for this. It simply isn't enough to want something! Do I want to improve my fitness level? Yes. Am I going to create a more consistent exercise routine to execute this? Yes, literally step by step! Do I want one million dollars? Sure, if it fell into my lap. Am I going to go out and network and invest in startups at this moment? No, not right now, but perhaps someday when I'm better equipped financially (i.e., ready) to do so.
He has to want to do the work right now. And it's alright if you don't want to wait for that to happen, even if he started tomorrow. If you're ready for a relationship right now, then you deserve someone who can meet you where you are give you what you need right now. You don't have to wait for it, and be given breadcrumbs along the way so that you feel like you're even slightly wanted during the process, and then showered with extreme affections when you're physically present to compensate for this. You deserve to be with someone who is excited to see you every time, thinks about you and misses you when you're apart, freely expresses vulnerability and emotions in the interim, and is more than willing to have relationship discussions at any time.
posted by Jangatroo at 8:55 AM on January 15, 2023 [3 favorites]
I agree completely with restless_nomad that your question is very similar to an earlier one of mine about a partner with nearly identical behavior to yours (minus admiring John Wayne). I can say with confidence that the physical distance is not the issue here, only a symptom. The emotional distance is the issue. I would bet that his behavior would still be the same towards you even if you lived 2 blocks from each other.
And let me also ask, has it been you who has always been the one travelling to see him? Or has he also come to you and reciprocated that effort? You mentioned doing a trial period of moving-in to his place. When you had this discussion initially, was your place an option? If so, did he feel that his place was a better choice due to it being familiar, comfortable, and/or not requiring any distance to travel? Has he ever lived with a partner before? If you've ever exhibited "extreme" emotions (heavy crying, etc.), does this make him uncomfortable and he doesn't know how to handle it? Is he "allowed" to have these same extreme emotions and expects you to just accept him as he is?
I understand the depression and feeling like you'll never be happy. I struggle with depression, as well. But, I've been seeking help for the past year, and had to make the effort to do so. My most recent ex also has depression, and had a good therapist at one point, but now doesn't and hasn't sought out another. So instead, the claims of being broken, an unlovable creature, unable to be happy or make a partner happy, etc. were prominent and consistent. They were also a form of self-pity, and a way to ensure that I would reassure and console him, instead of him having to do the work himself. It's simply easier that way.
Just for some anecdotal data, I have a (cisgender heterosexual) male friend in his 40's who also struggled with depression. He used to have more of an Avoidant attachment style, similar to your partner. Then he sought help and worked on himself for years, and only now finally feels that he's ready to date again and be a viable partner for someone else. Not just receive the love, attention, and desire from a partner, but to provide it, as well. And he now considers himself to be vulnerable and sensitive, whereas years ago he wouldn't even go near acknowledging those feelings. He says he's now happy, and doesn't know what he was thinking then. He also has excellent boundaries for himself, knows what he will and will not tolerate from a potential partner (dealbreakers), and is able to walk away immediately from a prospective candidate if they exhibit any of these behaviors. It's incredibly inspiring.
All of this is a long way of saying: It is not your responsibility to do the work for him. Or to "fix" him (I'm guilty of this too). He has to want to change himself as a primary step, and then as a secondary step, has to actually execute a plan for this. It simply isn't enough to want something! Do I want to improve my fitness level? Yes. Am I going to create a more consistent exercise routine to execute this? Yes, literally step by step! Do I want one million dollars? Sure, if it fell into my lap. Am I going to go out and network and invest in startups at this moment? No, not right now, but perhaps someday when I'm better equipped financially (i.e., ready) to do so.
He has to want to do the work right now. And it's alright if you don't want to wait for that to happen, even if he started tomorrow. If you're ready for a relationship right now, then you deserve someone who can meet you where you are give you what you need right now. You don't have to wait for it, and be given breadcrumbs along the way so that you feel like you're even slightly wanted during the process, and then showered with extreme affections when you're physically present to compensate for this. You deserve to be with someone who is excited to see you every time, thinks about you and misses you when you're apart, freely expresses vulnerability and emotions in the interim, and is more than willing to have relationship discussions at any time.
posted by Jangatroo at 8:55 AM on January 15, 2023 [3 favorites]
If a man tells you he is not good enough for you, BELIEVE HIM.
posted by ananci at 9:23 AM on January 15, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by ananci at 9:23 AM on January 15, 2023 [8 favorites]
I'm going to say this person is depressed and lacks good communication skills. A good way to broach the subject with him is on this point:
he dislikes having 'relationship talks'.
...which you definitely need to tell him he's going to have to change so that you two can develop your relationship.
I made the mistake of reading a couple comments above, but I snapped out of it quickly. I constantly marvel at how quickly a crowd will respond DTMFA to, like, anything. Separate from them, I think it might be helpful for you (both of you) to agree that making distance work takes heavy lifting and new skills compared to the in-person stuff. You can tell him that his defeatist, depressed talking is apparent, right? It's apparent because it's unhelpful, untrue, and it's causing you concern. Short of the two of you getting a professional to help broker how you address this (and that is a great option!), maybe you agree to read/listen to a reference text that can serve as a prompt for you to get a discussion going. Maybe something like Attached would be a good "book club" recommendation? That way you can both get on the same page with relationship vocabulary, something that might help ease into "relationship talks" without feeling like you're speaking different languages.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 10:42 AM on January 15, 2023 [2 favorites]
he dislikes having 'relationship talks'.
...which you definitely need to tell him he's going to have to change so that you two can develop your relationship.
I made the mistake of reading a couple comments above, but I snapped out of it quickly. I constantly marvel at how quickly a crowd will respond DTMFA to, like, anything. Separate from them, I think it might be helpful for you (both of you) to agree that making distance work takes heavy lifting and new skills compared to the in-person stuff. You can tell him that his defeatist, depressed talking is apparent, right? It's apparent because it's unhelpful, untrue, and it's causing you concern. Short of the two of you getting a professional to help broker how you address this (and that is a great option!), maybe you agree to read/listen to a reference text that can serve as a prompt for you to get a discussion going. Maybe something like Attached would be a good "book club" recommendation? That way you can both get on the same page with relationship vocabulary, something that might help ease into "relationship talks" without feeling like you're speaking different languages.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 10:42 AM on January 15, 2023 [2 favorites]
Please re-read ananci's answer. This will NOT end well and you'll feel even worse because he's already told you who he is and you didn't listen. Depression might be the reason he feels this way, but you can't be the person to help him not feel this way. Break up. I'm so sorry.
posted by simonelikenina at 5:19 PM on January 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by simonelikenina at 5:19 PM on January 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
You've been given so much great advice and I hope you find exactly what you're looking for in some of those words!
I wanted to share a thought I've had: I think John Wayne in 2023 would be a more evolved person. He'd still be an icon but demonstrate that true strength is a combination of grit AND vulnerability. He'd be supporting wounded combat veterans by encouraging therapy for PTSD. He'd be showing men that by showing emotion they could be better husbands and dads. He'd be a vocal supporter of people living their truth whatever their gender identity or sexual orientation may be. He would remind people to be proud of their truth and remember that values like hard work and honesty are more important than things like money and a fancy home.
And an anecdote: I have an ex who's now in his late 40s. He's a lovely person in so many ways and a rockstar in his professional life, a devoted son to fragile parents, and more but deals with depression and is very detached from his emotions. We are still friends over a decade later but even the usual communication of a long-distance friendship are too much for him; this is true for many of his nearby friends, too. This is tragic because, again, he's lovely and deserves to be happy or at least less unhappy. I am glad we're not in a relationship anymore because it would never have worked, although arguably he may never be able to have a relationship with anyone. I tried hard and he tried hard -- I love and respect him for that -- but it didn't work near or far. There's a lot of talk about how people can change. And that's true in that WE can change ourselves BUT we cannot change others. And many others do not want to change or simply cannot change even if they'd want to. And in those situations, the loving thing to do for ourselves and for them is to release all parties from the pressure and disappointment. Since you two care for each other, there's always the possibility of a friendship down the line. And that can be just as beautiful and meaningful as a romantic relationship, especially when the latter just isn't working and likely never will.
posted by smorgasbord at 6:41 PM on January 16, 2023
I wanted to share a thought I've had: I think John Wayne in 2023 would be a more evolved person. He'd still be an icon but demonstrate that true strength is a combination of grit AND vulnerability. He'd be supporting wounded combat veterans by encouraging therapy for PTSD. He'd be showing men that by showing emotion they could be better husbands and dads. He'd be a vocal supporter of people living their truth whatever their gender identity or sexual orientation may be. He would remind people to be proud of their truth and remember that values like hard work and honesty are more important than things like money and a fancy home.
And an anecdote: I have an ex who's now in his late 40s. He's a lovely person in so many ways and a rockstar in his professional life, a devoted son to fragile parents, and more but deals with depression and is very detached from his emotions. We are still friends over a decade later but even the usual communication of a long-distance friendship are too much for him; this is true for many of his nearby friends, too. This is tragic because, again, he's lovely and deserves to be happy or at least less unhappy. I am glad we're not in a relationship anymore because it would never have worked, although arguably he may never be able to have a relationship with anyone. I tried hard and he tried hard -- I love and respect him for that -- but it didn't work near or far. There's a lot of talk about how people can change. And that's true in that WE can change ourselves BUT we cannot change others. And many others do not want to change or simply cannot change even if they'd want to. And in those situations, the loving thing to do for ourselves and for them is to release all parties from the pressure and disappointment. Since you two care for each other, there's always the possibility of a friendship down the line. And that can be just as beautiful and meaningful as a romantic relationship, especially when the latter just isn't working and likely never will.
posted by smorgasbord at 6:41 PM on January 16, 2023
I was there for a pretty extended period - several weeks, where I was essentially living with him full time to see what moving in would be like. That's why I find this all so strange.
In person, he is not merely thoughtful but *incredibly* so - attentive to the faintest hint of needs.
It seems like these issues you are concerned about are only when you are apart, and in person things are fine? Some people are much more able to open up emotionally and read the emotions of others when in person.
If you want to be in a relationship with someone who has great LDR communication, it sounds like that's not him. If he won't have a "relationship talk" with you about preferred texting habits, he won't ever become that either.
Even if you were to move in, people occasionally need to spend time in different places (business trip, hospitalized, etc), it's good to be able to communicate when this happens.
once told someone else that 'men aren't allowed to talk about their negative emotions'
Don't read to much into what someone else said that he said, you might not know the full context.
posted by yohko at 4:51 PM on January 17, 2023
In person, he is not merely thoughtful but *incredibly* so - attentive to the faintest hint of needs.
It seems like these issues you are concerned about are only when you are apart, and in person things are fine? Some people are much more able to open up emotionally and read the emotions of others when in person.
If you want to be in a relationship with someone who has great LDR communication, it sounds like that's not him. If he won't have a "relationship talk" with you about preferred texting habits, he won't ever become that either.
Even if you were to move in, people occasionally need to spend time in different places (business trip, hospitalized, etc), it's good to be able to communicate when this happens.
once told someone else that 'men aren't allowed to talk about their negative emotions'
Don't read to much into what someone else said that he said, you might not know the full context.
posted by yohko at 4:51 PM on January 17, 2023
Best answer: This comes across as fear of abandonment to me, but could also be anything from low self esteem to major depression. Do you know if he's been taking steps to take care of his mental health? Would he be receptive to going to counselling/ therapy (not suggesting you spring the question at such an early stage of the relationship, especially given what you said about him)?
Anyway, my approach here would be to reframe this in my mind as he's afraid of losing you and that's why he's distant from you - "trust no one, don't get close to anyone, so you'll never suffer betrayal or heartbreak" certainly sounds like something a macho Hollywood star would say and a reason for someone with abandonment fears to stay distant when they don't have your physical presence to reassure them.
posted by wandering zinnia at 2:20 PM on January 18, 2023
Anyway, my approach here would be to reframe this in my mind as he's afraid of losing you and that's why he's distant from you - "trust no one, don't get close to anyone, so you'll never suffer betrayal or heartbreak" certainly sounds like something a macho Hollywood star would say and a reason for someone with abandonment fears to stay distant when they don't have your physical presence to reassure them.
posted by wandering zinnia at 2:20 PM on January 18, 2023
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I won't tell you to DTMFA, but you should decide if this is a relationship you would still want to be in if nothing changes, and make your decision on that basis.
posted by derrinyet at 3:02 PM on January 14, 2023