In sickness and in strain?
May 27, 2015 5:40 PM   Subscribe

How do you know when a relationship is 'tough' and 'hard work' or when it's harming you and warrants walking away?

My partner of two years has been struggling hard with mental health issues for the past several months, including suicide attempts, self-harm, and a deep depression. He regularly speaks with a counsellor, a psychiatrist, and takes his medication. His mood seems to be getting progressively worse, and his interactions with me are becoming more distant and more unkind. Mix all this up with a long distance relationship. We've been apart since September, with weekend visits every 2-4 weeks, while he pursues his PhD at a great university.

Though we speak on Skype often, it's rarely nourishing conversation. Generally it's the kind of small talk you get with a distant family member. For example: sharing a few memes or linking to some interesting things found on the internet. I tell him about what I've been doing with my life, how I feel about the people in it, the things I encounter, the thoughts in my head. He tells me things he witnesses, and sometimes notions he has about events he's observed. Once in a while we talk about politics or history or film. Sometimes I turn the topic to 'us' as I feel, and have been feeling for some time, deeply unhappy. There is little to no romantic interaction at all when we're apart.

The things that make me unhappy include the emotional distance and what I perceive as a lack of concern from him. When he experiences a low mood, he often won't speak to me at all. Sometimes for only a day, but sometimes longer. I try to keep in contact at least once a day (a short text during the day or nightly Skype conversation) to keep his spirits up, to let him know I love him, and because I really miss him. When I don't hear from him I worry that he's self harming, contemplating suicide, or worse. I desperately want him to open up and speak to me about what he's facing so that I can try to provide support, but he has communicated that there are things he 'wants to keep to himself'. He claims this is not unreasonable, and largely I agree. He says the things about himself that he keeps private might hurt me. He's not an outwardly dangerous or aggressive person, so I can only imagine what he means by this.

Recently there was a complication. It was discovered that he had been speaking to a friend/ex-girlfriend, with whom he shared a very volatile relationship some time ago, about his feelings of depression and sharing intimate details about his struggle. He claimed to have done this because she wasn't connected directly to his life. An altercation took place when I was contacted by her and accused of being the reason for him being depressed, suicidal, and experiencing difficulties with mental health. I was livid and hurt, and I asked that he cease contact. (Which included a request that he confront her about the altercation, delete her from Facebook and lose her number, at least for a while.) He told me that he explained to her that he couldn't speak to her for a while, but never deleted her number, etc because he 'didn't want to'. I explained that if the tables were turned, I would never stay friends with someone (with a track record for being disruptive in our relationship) speak to him like that or insinuate such an intensely hurtful thing.

What I would like is for him to tell me the truth about how he's feeling and what he's facing. I felt betrayed by the knowledge that someone who had mistreated him so much in the past was receiving a part of him that he was unwilling to share with me. I'd like for him to understand how much his distance and disregard of my feelings truly hurts, and how much I want to be there with him while he's getting better. I'm at a really confusing point in my life, and this relationship is starting to make me wish I could just never feel anything ever again.

My question is this: how do you know if this is just a tough period in a relationship? How do you know how when it's worth being saved? Keeping in mind I'm only sharing a recent picture and we have had happy moments in the past. When do I know to weather on and keep trying, or when to walk away?
posted by Vrai to Human Relations (25 answers total) 7 users marked this as a favorite
 
Recently there was a complication. It was discovered that he had been speaking to a friend/ex-girlfriend, with whom he shared a very volatile relationship some time ago, about his feelings of depression and sharing intimate details about his struggle. He claimed to have done this because she wasn't connected directly to his life.

I was all geared up to urge you to work with him, give him time, and be compassionate until I read the part about the ex girlfriend, in whom he's apparently confiding more than he is in you, and then she used what he told her to attack you and blame you for his illness/self-loathing, at which point I think your relationship entered "awww hell naw" territory.

I think he has abused and exhausted your patience and it's time for you to move on. His reaching out to the ex, and the way that unfolded, should really be the last straw.
posted by jayder at 5:49 PM on May 27, 2015 [42 favorites]


I'm sorry, just to answer your specific question: there's no hard and fast rule. You "just know." But to me, especially in a long distance situation, the other party needs to be trying and putting in a good faith effort. Which, he's not.
posted by jayder at 5:51 PM on May 27, 2015 [4 favorites]


Let him go his way and you go yours. He's not a real partner. He's selfish and he's probably only making your life better because you feel less alone. He's being disrespectful. Don't let him do that to you.

End it.
posted by discopolo at 5:53 PM on May 27, 2015 [7 favorites]


What does he do when you bring difficult issues, problems etc to him? Does he offer reassurance and support, or is this ending up one-sided where you provide the support and cope with your own problems because he can't/won't be able to help?
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 6:07 PM on May 27, 2015 [1 favorite]


Response by poster: @dorothyisunderwood : He tries to offer solutions generally. That's his version of support. Sometimes I get, 'I don't know'. I've stopped bringing up my own problems very often. Unless it's something superficial like an annoyance at work or a minor frustration with friends, or like an injury. The only real problems I tend to bring up anymore relate directly to us. I try to space them out, but I'm almost always feeling uneasy because things between us could be a lot better.
posted by Vrai at 6:12 PM on May 27, 2015


He likely didn't just confide in her but made you the enemy in his narrative. Right now I'd say lose him because the stakes are much lower than they could be, he has much to learn, and holding onto him right now kind of does him a disservice. I wouldn't go zero contact but would suggest he work on himself to figure out what he wants in life and if he wants to meet you a year or five for now for coffee and has finished maturing, let the chips fall where they may. There's a good chancs you are deriving some unhealthy benefit from the situation but mostly it's comfort and the fear of intentionally removing that.

It can take us males some time to solidify our social boundaries and values and expectations, and while men who know what they want don't easily change, many boys takes awhile to mature into men, which is a different sort of change.
posted by aydeejones at 6:24 PM on May 27, 2015 [7 favorites]


My "mostly" should be "often" or "in many or even most cases" but comfort is a huge factor at all stages of life when it comes to prolonging negative relatIonships. It's similar to the comfort of alcohol allowing you to melt and forget your troubles when things are going well or it's Friday or the end of a long day or whatever, but ultimately it sabotages your everyday functional content self and sense thereof.
posted by aydeejones at 6:27 PM on May 27, 2015 [1 favorite]


When do I know to weather on and keep trying, or when to walk away?

When you're seriously asking that question. I know, it sounds trite, but that's what did it for me when my first marriage ended -- when I started seriously asking what it would take for me to feel it was worth staying in that relationship.
posted by Etrigan at 6:28 PM on May 27, 2015 [14 favorites]


I dated someone who was mentally ill while he was in graduate school and then long distance after he graduated. I worried about his well-being, always, and he told me sometimes that I was the only thing keeping him together. I walked on eggshells to not rock the boat. I know you want the truth about how he's feeling, but what about how you are feeling? Who is taking care of you?

He has been unkind and hurtful to you, for months. I know the mental illness might make this seem more complicated, because I used to think that it's just the illness talking and this isn't really him and he is hurting and I need to help because I can save him from himself. The end result is that you are hurting, and you are sad and not wanting to feel any longer.

Get out. For your own sake. You are not responsible for him. PhD programs are brutal - this will not get better. I kept thinking that after this hurdle (hard class, proposal defense, comps, writing, defense, edits, etc), things will be easier. It won't. He is not being kind; he is not being respectful. Those are the qualities of a healthy relationship, and those are the things you fight for.
posted by umwhat at 6:39 PM on May 27, 2015 [22 favorites]


Also, I think everybody knows talking to ex girlfriends while your current girlfriend spends her energy loving and caring for you is a really crappy and hurtful thing to do. He really doesn't value your relationship as much as you do.

I let my own very LT relationship end because I was just exhausted. I know that I spent so long being compassionate, loving, caring---everything loving, caring, good girlfriends/people do. And he turned mean, unapologetically mean and I found myself so tired, so worn out from crying, so depressed and just dreading seeing him, interacting with him. I've never regretted ending the relationship. He was a dick.

He makes you feel bad, leave. That's my rule now.
posted by discopolo at 7:16 PM on May 27, 2015 [15 favorites]


Way to bury the lede! This isn't about mental illness, this is about betrayal.

He's well enough to pursue a PhD at a prestigious university, but he isn't well enough to resist triangulating with an ex GF and maintains a connection with her after she attacks you?

Kick this selfish person out of your life. DTMFA.

Nthing: He makes you feel bad - that's reason enough & a great rule to live life by.
posted by jbenben at 8:00 PM on May 27, 2015 [29 favorites]


I became very depressed during my master's - there's not a lot of daily structure and it's very focused, recurring dead-ends kind of work in research, so it fed the depression. I was also long-distance with my husband at the time. Honestly I was looking for a way out of that relationship because we'd lost our connection over previous issues (swept under the rug) and didn't know how to deal with it. I hid a lot of my feelings from him and stopped talking about anything of substance, not wanting to concern him while I worked things through for myself. I hid it from everyone I was friends with at home, all of my family too, because I didn't want to be judged. And yeah I confided in other people instead, who were outside of the situation. I was having pretty crazy, suicidal thoughts for a while before I finally worked up the guts to ask for a divorce.

Your boyfriend seems like he wants out of the relationship, but is afraid to go through with it for whatever reason (such as fear of backlash, missing you, don't want to throw away the time together) and doesn't know how to deal. Don't blame yourself by thinking that this is the big reason he's depressed though, and I don't know if you should even bother trying to unpack that. As things currently stand, it doesn't look like this situation can be fixed and return to a happy LDR while he's away at grad school for 3 more years. It'd take moving to be with each other, and even then that's no guarantee.

Since my ex-husband, I've learned that the relationships worth hanging onto are with people who are willing to do their part in helping take care of the relationship's health - work on issues, maintain the romantic connection, maintain the friendship. A relationship takes two people; if one person just doesn't care anymore, and the other person isn't able to make an impact on that... it's time to walk away.
posted by lizbunny at 8:52 PM on May 27, 2015 [3 favorites]


Kick him to the curb. He's a selfish asshole, depression or not. This guy won't care, he's got his back up plan in place already. I wouldn't make any excuses for him and don't allow him to make them to you. Just end it, you'll be so much happier and wonder why you put up with it for as long as you did. He's her problem now, and she sounds lovely enough that she deserves him too. I'd say sorry, but I think this is a huge bullet you'll be dodging so it's a good thing if you break up.
posted by Jubey at 9:18 PM on May 27, 2015 [7 favorites]


Best answer: I'm not really sure there's enough information here to say whether this guy is a terrible traitor or no. It sounds like he's doing his absolute best to keep his depression away from you as much as possible. His sense that this is what he needs to do to protect you may be misguided, or it may not - some people can only cope with so much depression, and you sound like you're already exhausted by the amount he's showing you now. The situation with the ex is a bit of a mess, but it sounds like what he needs more than anything is an outlet and a sense that there's someone he can tell his awful thoughts to. I know a bunch of people are going to say, 'like a therapist', but professionals are one thing and friends are a different thing. He's found out that the ex can't be that person, because she's not in fact an impartial listener. What he really needs are friends, in his city, who can help him without injecting their own agenda. But not everyone has that, partly because a lot of people will 'walk away from negative people' etc.

All told, your life may be better without him, but it may also be diminished without the sense that love sometimes requires selflessness. And I don't think we can tell you what your decision, either way, will mean. I don't think it will help him if you remain with him purely out of charity - being offered fake love is a well-intentioned form of gaslighting that's corrosive and awful. But there are people I was told to walk away from, who eventually thanked me for sticking around. My life would be much less without such people, who made me work tremendously hard. But I always did it because I really wanted to.
posted by Acheman at 4:58 AM on May 28, 2015 [4 favorites]


What you asked of him re: the ex-girlfriend is completely reasonable and he should have done this even without your asking.
I am telling you this because it sounds like his grudging, withholding affections are making you doubt yourself. You seem to not be sure whether you are entitled to the loving conversations about your relationship, his tender loving care when you tell him about your real problems, the honesty about himself, and the loyalty towards you above all others, especially his ex.
You deserve these, all of these. But he is not the man who will give them to you. Some because he can't, some because he "doesn't want to".
Leave him. When you do, stop worrying about him. He has a confidante already, eager to help him when you are gone, and you know it.

You deserve all these good things you are longing for in a relationship. Go look for the man who will be overjoyed to give them to you.
posted by Omnomnom at 5:00 AM on May 28, 2015 [2 favorites]


I explained that if the tables were turned, I would never stay friends with someone (with a track record for being disruptive in our relationship) speak to him like that or insinuate such an intensely hurtful thing.

I think you need to explain that to yourself. Like many people you are looking for a "good enough" reason to leave, or looking for a lack of one as a cause to stay. You don't need one, just leave, you're not getting what you want. That's all there is to it.
posted by French Fry at 6:00 AM on May 28, 2015 [4 favorites]


LDRs require MORE openness , honesty, and willingness to put in the extra mile to make it work than regular relationships, in my opinion. The fact that your current situation has less of all those things than the "average" relationship (again IMO) makes me think it's not tenable.

You have my definite blessing to tell him, at the very least, that this amount of difficulty is not doable in an LDR and you need to break up while you're LDR and re-evaluate if you want to be together later on.
posted by nakedmolerats at 6:13 AM on May 28, 2015 [2 favorites]


Best answer: You highlighted the answer which touches on the concept of loving sacrifice; that makes me a bit concerned that you view all this as, "Well, everyone makes compromises! Everyone sacrifices for love sometimes!" Which, though it may be true, isn't limitless. You're already making a ton of sacrifices by being in a LDR. You're sacrificing having someone there with you in person. You're sacrificing all those little interactions you get on a daily basis. You're sacrificing physical comfort in a lot of different ways. You're sacrificing having someone nearby who can do things like bail you out when you get a flat tire, who can bring you soup when you're sick, who can come over when you've had a shitty day and give you a hug. You're making huge sacrifices already.

If this doesn't change, how long would you be happy to wait? Six months? A year? Five years? Mark it on the calendar. And when that date comes, and nothing has changed, then what?

There's sacrifice and there's giving everything of yourself to a relationship and getting nothing back. What do you get out of this right now? Right now, not in the past, not in the future - right now? Just because you had good times in the past, it doesn't mean things are good now. And what is he doing to try to move this relationship to a place where it would be good in the future?

In some ways, being with someone who is depressed reminds me a lot of what it's like to be with someone who's an alcoholic. The whole relationship can start to revolve around their disease, their moods, their issues, to the point that you can lose yourself. And in a similar way, I'd remind you: "You didn't cause it, you can't cure it, you can't control it."
posted by RogueTech at 8:23 AM on May 28, 2015 [13 favorites]


One thing you don't really mention that I think would be relevant here is how long you've been in this relationship and how good things were before the depression crept up. If you've been together for an amazing decade, and then the last few months have been rough and awful, I would be a lot more inclined to tell you to stick it out than if you had only been together a year or two and you weren't sure about your future. Being with a person with major long-term illnesses like depression is the kind of thing you do for a person you want to be in a serious long term relationship with.

I will say, that given the severity of depression you describe and my own experiences, you're looking at what is likely to be a pretty long road of illness ahead. It took me the better part of a year to hit my worst point and get help, and another two years before I could say "I'm not depressed sometimes". Hell, there are still days when I feel it nearly 4 years later.
posted by zug at 8:49 AM on May 28, 2015


ah, I see that you mentioned two years and I just missed it. Was that an amazing two years or an okay two years?
posted by zug at 8:50 AM on May 28, 2015


Best answer: Oh. Oh no.

"I don't think there's enough information here to say whether this guy is a terrible traitor or no."

+

"Though we speak on Skype often, it's rarely nourishing conversation"

+

"Recently there was a complication. It was discovered that he had been speaking to a friend/ex-girlfriend, with whom he shared a very volatile relationship some time ago, about his feelings of depression and sharing intimate details about his struggle. He claimed to have done this because she wasn't connected directly to his life. An altercation took place when I was contacted by her and accused of being the reason for him being depressed, suicidal, and experiencing difficulties with mental health. I was livid and hurt, and I asked that he cease contact. (Which included a request that he confront her about the altercation, delete her from Facebook and lose her number, at least for a while.) He told me that he explained to her that he couldn't speak to her for a while, but never deleted her number, etc because he 'didn't want to'."

.... Actually, this is more than enough evidence.

Look. I've dated this guy. He was totally selfish and used me completely. For years , time I can not get back, I bought into the barely passable excuses he gave me for his shitty behavior towards me.

Do you want to know the worst part?

The crappy lies he told me now effect my otherwise excellent marriage 15+ years later. Going back for more and more obvious abuse of my trust has effected future relationships.

He did not contact "volatile ex GF" by accident or in a vacuum. I'm sorry to see you somehow think this betrayal was meaningless or excusable.

Not to mention, there's probably a whole lot more going on you don't know about.

On multiple occasions I actually called suicide hotlines on behalf of my "poor tragic hero." 25+ years later, he's still living and breathing.

Your guy will get his degree. He would have kept on Skyping you and kept you in the dark if his ex-gf had not called you! Thank her for her volatility! She's done you a favor!!

Dodge the bullet. Go ahead and Memail if you want to know how the rest of this relationship plays out. The reason this thread was overwhelmingly skewed towards "dump him" was because lots of us have been in your shoes.

Want to know the rest?

I'm 7 years very happily married. I'll never have a story like, "his volatile ex gf called me with accusations" to tell about my wonderful supportive husband.

Get it?
posted by jbenben at 8:54 AM on May 28, 2015 [11 favorites]


A lot of times people liken mental illness in relationships to physical illness, I.E. “Would you leave them if they had cancer? (insert haughty tone)”

It’s not that it’s a false equivalence entirely; I just think you need to pick the right disease. Like a contagious one. Or one that was treatable like; let’s say chlamydia, but they kept, you know, not treating it. Over and over they made their repeated and inexplicable contraction of chlamydia your problem. Maybe you get calls from their volatile ex-girlfriend accusing you of giving them chlamydia again, but he’s not going to stop contacting her.
posted by French Fry at 11:26 AM on May 28, 2015 [3 favorites]


I have a pretty severe mental illness and I can be tough to be with sometimes. My boyfriend does sometimes have to deal with me being irrational/emotional and I feel incredibly guilty about it. That said, I have worked incredibly hard for the last 2 years to learn better coping strategies, to communicate calmly, to change my behavior, and become the partner he deserves. I make sure I am as supportive to him and his needs as he is supportive to mine. I try to act with kindness and compassion. He puts up with me and I treat him the best I can.
Your boyfriend does not deserve you. His lack of effort is inexcusable and you've allowed him to get away with it because he is mentally ill. Him being mentally ill does not mean he can be a shitty boyfriend. It is not an excuse. His actions with his ex-girlfriend to garner sympathy were completely out of order and he obviously presented it from his own selfish martyr point of view.
You deserve so much better. Please step back and look after yourself.
posted by shesbenevolent at 12:04 PM on May 28, 2015 [4 favorites]


He has obviously told the ex that you are the cause of all of his mental health problems - she hasn't invented that from nowhere. Maybe that's what he actually thinks and that's why he doesn't talk to you (I think he was more likely just fishing for sympathy from his ex, but let's give him the benefit of the doubt).

Why would you stay with somebody who tells anyone who'll listen that you make them miserable? Take him at his word and dump him. Maybe he'll cheer up.
posted by tinkletown at 12:21 PM on May 28, 2015 [3 favorites]


Best answer: i know i'm way late to this conversation, and you might not even see this, but i'm gonna comment anyway.

i have a pretty severe case of bipolar I, along with some other shit. i am incredibly difficult to have a relationship with - not because i don't care, or don't try, but because i need a *lot* of support, and not just from professional sources (though they are my first line of defense). as someone who has lost relationships over this, the very est advice i can give you is to put yourself first - the whole oxygen mask thing. if this is a relationship you want to continue, then you have to be the healthiest that you can be, both to support him and to keep yourself sane. if he is making this impossible, then you have to do the thing that is best for you, which might be to move on.
posted by megan_magnolia at 9:21 AM on July 15, 2015 [2 favorites]


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