Retroactive Jealousy
March 19, 2022 5:33 PM Subscribe
I posted a while back about extreme jealousy of my boyfriend's ex. I'm still with him and the problem has not gone away despite him resolutely refusing to speak about her or mention her in any way.
I recently found that there is something called retroactive jealousy and wondering if anyone else has experienced this and how they have dealt with it?
Whilst I think I have valid reasons for feeling this way, the intensity of it and relentless of it feels debilitating.
The reason I know that the roots of this are with me, is that I was jealous of my previous boyfriends ex and he never ever praised her in front of me. She was an acquaintance so I got to meet her in person. When one of my friends started becoming close to her and essentially ditching me as a friend, I became obsessed to a toxic level. Stalking on social media almost every day and even when deciding where to move, choosing to move to the area she lived in the hopes of bumping into her. Completely nonsensical, I know- even if I bumped into her, what then? She'd say hi and that would be it. I never did bump into her and now I've broken up with that boyfriend I literally don't care about her, at all. The obsession completely disappeared and seems ridiculous to me now. She's just another flawed human being.
I don't need to go into the details of my obsession with my current bf's ex as its in a previous post. Suffice to say, this obsession is a thousand times worse and I almost get the sense it won't end if I end the relationship with this boyfriend. B..
I am not exaggerating when I say she is on my mind every hour of the day. And the emotional pain from the comparisons I make with her and scenes I play out in my head are excruciating.
I'm in therapy and trying to deal with this but really I'm just reaching out to ask if anyone else has ever felt this way?
Whilst I think I have valid reasons for feeling this way, the intensity of it and relentless of it feels debilitating.
The reason I know that the roots of this are with me, is that I was jealous of my previous boyfriends ex and he never ever praised her in front of me. She was an acquaintance so I got to meet her in person. When one of my friends started becoming close to her and essentially ditching me as a friend, I became obsessed to a toxic level. Stalking on social media almost every day and even when deciding where to move, choosing to move to the area she lived in the hopes of bumping into her. Completely nonsensical, I know- even if I bumped into her, what then? She'd say hi and that would be it. I never did bump into her and now I've broken up with that boyfriend I literally don't care about her, at all. The obsession completely disappeared and seems ridiculous to me now. She's just another flawed human being.
I don't need to go into the details of my obsession with my current bf's ex as its in a previous post. Suffice to say, this obsession is a thousand times worse and I almost get the sense it won't end if I end the relationship with this boyfriend. B..
I am not exaggerating when I say she is on my mind every hour of the day. And the emotional pain from the comparisons I make with her and scenes I play out in my head are excruciating.
I'm in therapy and trying to deal with this but really I'm just reaching out to ask if anyone else has ever felt this way?
Is this the guy who won’t commit and focuses on your flaws? I suspect your jealousy of his ex is misplaced anger towards him for not giving you what you want. It’s not about him but about how this relationship isn’t meeting your needs. Jealousy can be a sign of unmet needs.
posted by bluedaisy at 7:02 PM on March 19, 2022 [20 favorites]
posted by bluedaisy at 7:02 PM on March 19, 2022 [20 favorites]
I was jealous of my previous boyfriends ex and he never ever praised her in front of me. She was an acquaintance so I got to meet her in person. When one of my friends started becoming close to her and essentially ditching me as a friend, I became obsessed to a toxic level.
I haven't ever felt this, but I have felt intense, searing, unexpected jealousy about relationships other people had - professionally.
Jealousy can be a sign of unmet needs.
Seconding this.
A number of years ago, I found myself vibrating with fury at the unfairness of other people having good managers and excellent professional networks while my manager was shit and my network was barely extant. It wasn't rational, it wasn't effective, and I had to excuse myself from conversations rather than yell at people for having the nerve to be doing okay. Intellectually, I eventually worked out that the extent to which I saw other people's circumstances as a personal threat was a symptom of what a mess my work life had become.
What are your relationships with your boyfriend, your friends, and your exes like? If you're on worse terms with your exes than your boyfriend is with his, your anger at his comfort might be a sort of manifestation of your frustration about the instability in your own history.
posted by All Might Be Well at 7:11 PM on March 19, 2022 [9 favorites]
I haven't ever felt this, but I have felt intense, searing, unexpected jealousy about relationships other people had - professionally.
Jealousy can be a sign of unmet needs.
Seconding this.
A number of years ago, I found myself vibrating with fury at the unfairness of other people having good managers and excellent professional networks while my manager was shit and my network was barely extant. It wasn't rational, it wasn't effective, and I had to excuse myself from conversations rather than yell at people for having the nerve to be doing okay. Intellectually, I eventually worked out that the extent to which I saw other people's circumstances as a personal threat was a symptom of what a mess my work life had become.
What are your relationships with your boyfriend, your friends, and your exes like? If you're on worse terms with your exes than your boyfriend is with his, your anger at his comfort might be a sort of manifestation of your frustration about the instability in your own history.
posted by All Might Be Well at 7:11 PM on March 19, 2022 [9 favorites]
I don't know who coined it "retroactive jealousy" because that would insinuate you became jealous later as opposed to currently. At any means the reply Bluedaisy gave is effective. You may just be having a lot of free time in the state of your neglect to fantasize about someone elses perceived station in love, be it a longer relationship, talk of marriage or what have you. the fact that it consumes you and she has done nothing to instigate it may be a sign that your relationship has no goals, so therefore no future. Maybe its time to go it alone until you have resolved what needs you have and find someone who is focused on providing them.
posted by The_imp_inimpossible at 7:26 PM on March 19, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by The_imp_inimpossible at 7:26 PM on March 19, 2022 [1 favorite]
Best answer: is this the guy of whom you said he was your second boyfriend and the first one that really counted? because even though I usually don't see the point of experience for experience's sake as long as you're happy where you are, A. you're not happy where you are, and B. I think that part of this is jealousy not of the woman herself for being the ex, but jealousy of him for his possession of a serious ex. if you had someone to remember with real fondness, from a relationship that ended without trauma but without the desire for it to continue, someone you still consider a good friend but are happy to no longer consider a boyfriend -- maybe then it would be easier to tolerate someone else's affection for admirable exes without so much consuming jealousy and obsession
I am not suggesting you break up with the current guy in order to convert him into an ex and thereby gain such an experience, but only because I don't think he would be a very good friend to you. he does not seem to be a very good boyfriend to you now.
but C., the only feeling of inferiority that you have that matters is a feeling of inferiority to him. not to her; to him. you are resolutely ignoring the point when you talk about realizing, or not being able to realize, that a boyfriend's ex is just a regular person like everyone else. HE is just a regular person like everyone else, and HE is the one you have to knock off the pedestal you built for him. you can idealize her as much as you like as long as you leave her alone. but idealizing him can ruin your life. idealizing HIM is the reason the thought of her makes you so miserable.
posted by queenofbithynia at 8:19 PM on March 19, 2022 [8 favorites]
I am not suggesting you break up with the current guy in order to convert him into an ex and thereby gain such an experience, but only because I don't think he would be a very good friend to you. he does not seem to be a very good boyfriend to you now.
but C., the only feeling of inferiority that you have that matters is a feeling of inferiority to him. not to her; to him. you are resolutely ignoring the point when you talk about realizing, or not being able to realize, that a boyfriend's ex is just a regular person like everyone else. HE is just a regular person like everyone else, and HE is the one you have to knock off the pedestal you built for him. you can idealize her as much as you like as long as you leave her alone. but idealizing him can ruin your life. idealizing HIM is the reason the thought of her makes you so miserable.
posted by queenofbithynia at 8:19 PM on March 19, 2022 [8 favorites]
Yes, I have experienced this. It was when the person in question was regularly, consistently dismissive and hurtful towards me and I was torturing myself imagining that he might not have been that way if I were a different and better person. The ex was a vessel for those feelings.
posted by babelfish at 8:23 PM on March 19, 2022 [13 favorites]
posted by babelfish at 8:23 PM on March 19, 2022 [13 favorites]
I really agree that this jealousy is a symptom of your unmet needs in the relationship with him and your relationship with yourself. You don’t feel worthy because he doesn’t treat you as worthy, and you don’t believe you’re worthy. It is also a common feature of emotional abuse (and clinical narcissism) to put an ex on a pedestal and unfavourably compare the current partner to the ex. I genuinely think you would be happier and healthier away from this man. Wishing you strength to make the best decision for you.
posted by wreckofthehesperus at 2:26 AM on March 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by wreckofthehesperus at 2:26 AM on March 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
Response by poster: @queenofbithyni yes, a huge part of this is tied into my own sense of grief at lost opportunities and potential and the fact I never had a true first love, never had a relationship until I was 26. His relationship with his ex at 19 at med school is powerfully symbolic on multiple levels to me, and each of those levels is painful. I have recognised I am jealous of *him* intensely also.
posted by Sunflower88 at 2:28 AM on March 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Sunflower88 at 2:28 AM on March 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
So it sounds like the work you need to do is about yourself, your goals, your expectations for yourself and how to deal when you don't meet them. (Which... you often won't, especially when those expectations are unspoken and unreasonable, such as "having an emotionally significant relationship by a fixed deadline" - seriously, that's not a thing that anyone can count on and everyone's timeline is significantly different.)
I think framing this as not about anyone but you in your head will help - when you catch yourself ruminating about her, turn it around to what you want for you, what your disappointment is, etc. This is something to work through with your therapist in general, but for moment-to-moment support, just keep replying to the thoughts with "ok, this is about me, not anyone else."
posted by restless_nomad at 6:48 AM on March 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
I think framing this as not about anyone but you in your head will help - when you catch yourself ruminating about her, turn it around to what you want for you, what your disappointment is, etc. This is something to work through with your therapist in general, but for moment-to-moment support, just keep replying to the thoughts with "ok, this is about me, not anyone else."
posted by restless_nomad at 6:48 AM on March 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
I never had a true first love
In case this is helpful to hear, first true loves can happen anytime - in your 30s, or in your 40s, after a number of mediocre relationships, etc. The first time you fall in love with someone for who they are and they fall in love with you for who you are, is pretty magical regardless of when it happens it your life, and regardless of whether it's the first time for the other person. You can still have that experience.
posted by coffeecat at 7:45 AM on March 20, 2022 [11 favorites]
In case this is helpful to hear, first true loves can happen anytime - in your 30s, or in your 40s, after a number of mediocre relationships, etc. The first time you fall in love with someone for who they are and they fall in love with you for who you are, is pretty magical regardless of when it happens it your life, and regardless of whether it's the first time for the other person. You can still have that experience.
posted by coffeecat at 7:45 AM on March 20, 2022 [11 favorites]
Best answer: You should probably break up with him. But, your level of rumination and perseveration appear to me to be outside the bounds of healthy. And they are not limited to this set of events. My strong hunch is that you perseverate in other areas of your life as well. I suggest therapy with a specialist in OCD/intrusive thoughts. An SSRI could help too.
posted by haptic_avenger at 7:55 AM on March 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by haptic_avenger at 7:55 AM on March 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
I hope this is OK but I just went through your posting history and realize you have considerable experience in the mental health system. I would suggest that you continue to pursue meaningful therapy. You said before that you suspected EUPD - what about trying DBT or ACT? I feel like a big part of your journey is going to be accepting your past and your challenges, while at the same time building a sense of self to help you build the life *you* want on *your* terms. You sound bright, young and motivated. There’s no reason you shouldn’t be able to thrive.
posted by haptic_avenger at 8:02 AM on March 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by haptic_avenger at 8:02 AM on March 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
When I'm very anxious about something that doesn't make a lot of sense, it's often a diversion. That is, I'm unhappy/worried about one thing in my life that I don't know what to do about, so I worry about another thing that's not a real problem. I wonder if you might be using the ex-girlfriend non-issue as a distraction from something else in your life or relationship.
posted by wryly at 10:51 AM on March 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by wryly at 10:51 AM on March 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
Best answer: I've also read several of your previous questions, including your recent one about CPTSD vs EUPD/BPD. I haven't felt this degree of jealousy, but I do tend to experience jealousy that can be quite intense when I sort of see someone as "like me but the better me" if that makes sense. Like has a lot of the same talents as me, but is a happy, friendly, likable, outgoing, positive person whereas I'm basically the opposite of that.
IANAD or a therapist or anything, but there are two books on trauma that I've recently been reading and I've found both of them incredibly helpful. One of them is part book part workbook. If either book seems to resonate with you, consider bringing this up to your therapist.
Both of these books are specifically about dealing with trauma that involves complicated dissociations symptoms. So maybe they won't be helpful for you at all! But until a few weeks ago, I would have said that the only dissociation I have is intermittent and not that bothersome depersonalization/derealization. Turns out there was so much more going on.
And the reason I'm bringing all this up is because the one thing that finally got me to realize there was so much more underneath the surface was because of these really strong, all encompassing emotions and obsessive thoughts that were not really in sync with the realities of the situation. Some CPTSD therapists call these "emotional flashbacks."
Anyway, here are the two books:
Healing the Fragmented Selves of Trauma Survivors (There's an appendix to this book with some exercises I found really helpful.)
Coping with trauma related dissociation
It sounds like you're really going through a tough time, and I know how hard it can be when you just want to not feel like this any more, but you aren't even sure where to look for to start finding answers. I hope you are able to find something that helps you. Take care.
posted by litera scripta manet at 4:54 PM on March 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
IANAD or a therapist or anything, but there are two books on trauma that I've recently been reading and I've found both of them incredibly helpful. One of them is part book part workbook. If either book seems to resonate with you, consider bringing this up to your therapist.
Both of these books are specifically about dealing with trauma that involves complicated dissociations symptoms. So maybe they won't be helpful for you at all! But until a few weeks ago, I would have said that the only dissociation I have is intermittent and not that bothersome depersonalization/derealization. Turns out there was so much more going on.
And the reason I'm bringing all this up is because the one thing that finally got me to realize there was so much more underneath the surface was because of these really strong, all encompassing emotions and obsessive thoughts that were not really in sync with the realities of the situation. Some CPTSD therapists call these "emotional flashbacks."
Anyway, here are the two books:
Healing the Fragmented Selves of Trauma Survivors (There's an appendix to this book with some exercises I found really helpful.)
Coping with trauma related dissociation
It sounds like you're really going through a tough time, and I know how hard it can be when you just want to not feel like this any more, but you aren't even sure where to look for to start finding answers. I hope you are able to find something that helps you. Take care.
posted by litera scripta manet at 4:54 PM on March 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: Thank you @litera scripta manet, I will try reading those books. Yes, it's very painful right now - his ex was East Asian and I feel triggered everytime I see a young attractive East Asian woman....which is a lot where I live, in London. I work for a university and when I specifically see East Asian female students (again, there's a lot), I get so triggered. I lose hours to rumination about my terribly isolated, lonely time at uni and envisioning scenes of them together whilst they were students. I think these obsessive thoughts are a kind of emotional flashback, as you stated.
posted by Sunflower88 at 5:08 PM on March 20, 2022
posted by Sunflower88 at 5:08 PM on March 20, 2022
Best answer: Giving a self-described ‘failure’ of a boyfriend this much power to define your worth is such a product of your childhood and all the parts of your life that got you to where you are now. I relate.
The amount of festering jealousy I had about my first boyfriend’s former (basic, nothing to them really) relationships is staggering to me now. The imagined sense of all the ex’s apparent perfections and her perfect life could not be any kind of truthful understanding of another person. My jealousies were particular as they were pointless. She doesn't have cellulite! She puts her clothes away properly! She comes at the drop of a hat! Her hair is always tidy! She has a great car! My boyfriend wishes he was with her! She did a harder uni course than me! She’s funnier than me! She plays the flute!
If social media had been a thing back then, I’d be truly fucked up searching it every day too.
My ensuing life has taught me ‘everybody has their shit’ and there’s no point idealising the Other. It also taught me that a guy who negs me is probably as fucked up as anyone else. First boyfriends can get away with it since you haven’t had any other better models to consider intimately.
Someone up thread said you have to remove him from the pedestal you’ve put him on. I agree. He’s just some guy, not a defining overlord.
In a different kind of interpersonal relationship, him telling you that *he feels he’s a failure* would cause a different reaction in you. He identifies with your feelings possibly, and not doing a very good job of owning it. He says he rejected a relationship with a relatively well adjusted person as an indication of his failure in life. You have made this about you, about her. I can see why *of course*
He assumes, probably because you’ve told him many times, that you feel like a failure like he does. Most people we end up intimately dancing with in life have a great deal of ourselves in them. His idealised other is an opportunity he feels he didn’t take. Is there a part of you that could frame part of this as something you understand intimately because life has veered for you too, because you couldn’t have what you have idealised.
It might be a good mental exercise to consider what he’s telling you differently: he’s showing a sense of low self esteem. He’s struggling with an adult sense of gaining achievements in such a way as his former partner. He’s projecting his own sense of whatever onto you and telling you what to do. He's not being able to meaningfully comfort another person in distress.
He also has another life he didn’t get to have through his own shit. It would be an interesting swerve to consider how you have something key in common, an imagined lost idealised life. The person is irrelevant to this since it’s an internalised symbol of something.
And tangentially to these observations: reading about gifted children and their adult lives might help you to see the trajectory you’ve experienced in life is one a substantial number of gifted adults endure.
And tangential to that: reading ‘Passionate Marriage’ by David Schnarch was suggested by my therapist even though marriage was not the topic of therapy. I learned so much from this book about why people are together, how their feelings and fears are often overlapped in formative experiences, how empathy and connection can be created. Sometimes the way to stop feeling jealous is to grow into a sense of others being just as needful and vulnerable as ourselves.
posted by honey-barbara at 5:38 PM on March 21, 2022 [5 favorites]
The amount of festering jealousy I had about my first boyfriend’s former (basic, nothing to them really) relationships is staggering to me now. The imagined sense of all the ex’s apparent perfections and her perfect life could not be any kind of truthful understanding of another person. My jealousies were particular as they were pointless. She doesn't have cellulite! She puts her clothes away properly! She comes at the drop of a hat! Her hair is always tidy! She has a great car! My boyfriend wishes he was with her! She did a harder uni course than me! She’s funnier than me! She plays the flute!
If social media had been a thing back then, I’d be truly fucked up searching it every day too.
My ensuing life has taught me ‘everybody has their shit’ and there’s no point idealising the Other. It also taught me that a guy who negs me is probably as fucked up as anyone else. First boyfriends can get away with it since you haven’t had any other better models to consider intimately.
Someone up thread said you have to remove him from the pedestal you’ve put him on. I agree. He’s just some guy, not a defining overlord.
In a different kind of interpersonal relationship, him telling you that *he feels he’s a failure* would cause a different reaction in you. He identifies with your feelings possibly, and not doing a very good job of owning it. He says he rejected a relationship with a relatively well adjusted person as an indication of his failure in life. You have made this about you, about her. I can see why *of course*
He assumes, probably because you’ve told him many times, that you feel like a failure like he does. Most people we end up intimately dancing with in life have a great deal of ourselves in them. His idealised other is an opportunity he feels he didn’t take. Is there a part of you that could frame part of this as something you understand intimately because life has veered for you too, because you couldn’t have what you have idealised.
It might be a good mental exercise to consider what he’s telling you differently: he’s showing a sense of low self esteem. He’s struggling with an adult sense of gaining achievements in such a way as his former partner. He’s projecting his own sense of whatever onto you and telling you what to do. He's not being able to meaningfully comfort another person in distress.
He also has another life he didn’t get to have through his own shit. It would be an interesting swerve to consider how you have something key in common, an imagined lost idealised life. The person is irrelevant to this since it’s an internalised symbol of something.
And tangentially to these observations: reading about gifted children and their adult lives might help you to see the trajectory you’ve experienced in life is one a substantial number of gifted adults endure.
And tangential to that: reading ‘Passionate Marriage’ by David Schnarch was suggested by my therapist even though marriage was not the topic of therapy. I learned so much from this book about why people are together, how their feelings and fears are often overlapped in formative experiences, how empathy and connection can be created. Sometimes the way to stop feeling jealous is to grow into a sense of others being just as needful and vulnerable as ourselves.
posted by honey-barbara at 5:38 PM on March 21, 2022 [5 favorites]
Response by poster: @honey-barbara, thank you for your insight. That's an interesting paradigm shifting way of looking at things. I do think that this whole dynamic, the jealousy of the ex is more to do with my own upbringing and issues. I'm powerfully jealous of what she represents; the lost opportunities and potential in my life. It's uncanny, that my boyfriend has dated a woman who literally had everything I wanted. She is who I would have wanted to be.
However, I have to say, the "imagined sense of the ex's perfections" are not so imagined. He has directly or indirectly compared me to her, so I'm not sure how I can stop feeling this is about me and her. He said she was the most organised, efficient, high functioning, smart and present person he's ever met. He didn't say all those things in one go but over the course of a year- but they are *direct quotes* i.e he speaks of her traits in superlatives - "the most X person he's ever met".
He also said she had a really nice figure and could have multiple orgasms. I struggle to orgasm. He's told me at various points that he's concerned that I'm low functioning, unorganised, inefficient, dissociative and not present. Also when he's saying "we are both failures", it's always *in relation to her*. I've never heard him say it in relation to anyone or anything else. I appreciate the opinion that she might be an internalised symbol, but equally he has pinpointed *specific* traits about her and indirectly/directly let me know I'm far from those things.
So how am I to interpret this as not being specific to me and about her?
Thanks for the thoughts on gifted children and their adult lives. Even with this, she was extremely gifted clearly and didn't screw up her life - yet another comparison that devastates me.
By the way, some people say that he'll talk glowingly about any ex he has, me included if I were to break up with him. That's not true. He only ever talks about his first love, this one specific ex; he barely mentions other women he's dated. To my mind, this makes things worse. It's not just about putting an ex on a pedestal, he legitimately harbours love and respect for this one specific woman.
posted by Sunflower88 at 1:45 AM on March 22, 2022
However, I have to say, the "imagined sense of the ex's perfections" are not so imagined. He has directly or indirectly compared me to her, so I'm not sure how I can stop feeling this is about me and her. He said she was the most organised, efficient, high functioning, smart and present person he's ever met. He didn't say all those things in one go but over the course of a year- but they are *direct quotes* i.e he speaks of her traits in superlatives - "the most X person he's ever met".
He also said she had a really nice figure and could have multiple orgasms. I struggle to orgasm. He's told me at various points that he's concerned that I'm low functioning, unorganised, inefficient, dissociative and not present. Also when he's saying "we are both failures", it's always *in relation to her*. I've never heard him say it in relation to anyone or anything else. I appreciate the opinion that she might be an internalised symbol, but equally he has pinpointed *specific* traits about her and indirectly/directly let me know I'm far from those things.
So how am I to interpret this as not being specific to me and about her?
Thanks for the thoughts on gifted children and their adult lives. Even with this, she was extremely gifted clearly and didn't screw up her life - yet another comparison that devastates me.
By the way, some people say that he'll talk glowingly about any ex he has, me included if I were to break up with him. That's not true. He only ever talks about his first love, this one specific ex; he barely mentions other women he's dated. To my mind, this makes things worse. It's not just about putting an ex on a pedestal, he legitimately harbours love and respect for this one specific woman.
posted by Sunflower88 at 1:45 AM on March 22, 2022
I think he should be an object of your pity when you walk away. I hear that he’s got some real problems if he still fixates on an ex from a decade ago, from whom he can’t move on, and using his stuck attitude to neg his current lover is a fucked up way to be. Hung up on an ex is not an attractive trait in a partner. Especially if it makes a new partner also absorb the dysfunctional obsession with that past lover.
You are at least seeking therapy and making steps towards self awareness of the causes and origin of your stressors, seeking growth and clarity through therapy. He is not even able to differentiate himself from his weird shit , and a particularly egregious place to try to do that is in an intimate sphere, negging a partner and playing on her insecurities. You’ve put up with too much and you’re too enmeshed with his relationship story. Time to move on.
Differentiation is a tough psychological position to grow into, but that’s your goal. His shit is really not something you need to carry around any longer.
posted by honey-barbara at 6:22 AM on March 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
You are at least seeking therapy and making steps towards self awareness of the causes and origin of your stressors, seeking growth and clarity through therapy. He is not even able to differentiate himself from his weird shit , and a particularly egregious place to try to do that is in an intimate sphere, negging a partner and playing on her insecurities. You’ve put up with too much and you’re too enmeshed with his relationship story. Time to move on.
Differentiation is a tough psychological position to grow into, but that’s your goal. His shit is really not something you need to carry around any longer.
posted by honey-barbara at 6:22 AM on March 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
Best answer: I lose hours to rumination about my terribly isolated, lonely time at uni and envisioning scenes of them together whilst they were students.
I've definitely been there. Different context, but losing hours and hours - whole chunks of my life - to these kinds of ruminations.
I think one other specific thing that might help you is beginning to cultivate self-compassion. One of the debilitating legacies of childhood trauma can be the way it warps how you see yourself. I know that I basically blamed myself for everything that happened to me - even though so much of it was outside of my control. So I grew up to be an adult who only knew how to hate myself. And it often "came out" in this kind of thing. Obsessing, jealousy, ruminations, bitterness, constantly comparing myself to other people.
I've been working really hard at breaking down that self hatred and instead building up a sense of compassion towards myself - both the adult I am in the present, but also the very traumatized child/young adult I used to be (and frankly still am in part today).
I know it can sound kind of cheesy, but if you can get past that, it really can help. And it does take practice. The way I started was to try to change my "self talk" so that I talked to myself the way I would talk to a friend. Or I imagined how one of my close, compassionate, empathetic friends would talk to me.
And one last book recommendation. I haven't read this one yet, but I did buy it after seeing it recommended on r/CPTSD. (That's also where I found the rec for the first book I linked in my previous comment. The 2nd book was recommended to me by my therapist.) Anyway, like I said, I haven't read this book yet, but it looks promising, and I think maybe something like this could help you:
It wasn't your fault
One last thing, I don't know how available this is in London, but if they have Adult Children of Alcoholics (ACOA), consider checking out a meeting. (This is true even if your family members weren't alcoholics. It applies equally to anyone who grew up with childhood trauma related to parents who had mental illness, who were abusive, etc.) It's a much smaller organization with fewer meetings compared to AA, so it may not be near you. But there may also be some virtual meeting options.
One last thing to consider: I'm not going to weigh in on whether your boyfriend is contributing to this issue with jealousy. It sounds like he may be, but that's really for you to decide. But even if your boyfriend were the "perfect" boyfriend, it's possible that you're not in the right place to be in a relationship. Maybe you need to be able to focus on working through some of this trauma stuff with the help of a qualified therapist, and without the distraction of a relationship and all the things it triggers.
Or maybe not! This is deeply personal. I can't say what's right for you, and I'm not trying to say you definitely have to break up. I just wanted to throw this out there for you to think about.
I really wish I had more help to offer. In my experience, it just takes a lot of time to work through the legacy of trauma, even just finding the right tools and the right approach can take years. It took me more than a decade of trying various therapies to finally find the right therapist, the right modalities, the right diagnosis. And I'm really only the beginning phases of chipping away at this. It's really hard work, but it's worth it. It takes so much energy and time and focus basically living in a nonstop emotional flashback which is what I've been doing for years and what it sounds like you're doing. I really do hope you're able to find some peace soon.
posted by litera scripta manet at 6:31 AM on March 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
I've definitely been there. Different context, but losing hours and hours - whole chunks of my life - to these kinds of ruminations.
I think one other specific thing that might help you is beginning to cultivate self-compassion. One of the debilitating legacies of childhood trauma can be the way it warps how you see yourself. I know that I basically blamed myself for everything that happened to me - even though so much of it was outside of my control. So I grew up to be an adult who only knew how to hate myself. And it often "came out" in this kind of thing. Obsessing, jealousy, ruminations, bitterness, constantly comparing myself to other people.
I've been working really hard at breaking down that self hatred and instead building up a sense of compassion towards myself - both the adult I am in the present, but also the very traumatized child/young adult I used to be (and frankly still am in part today).
I know it can sound kind of cheesy, but if you can get past that, it really can help. And it does take practice. The way I started was to try to change my "self talk" so that I talked to myself the way I would talk to a friend. Or I imagined how one of my close, compassionate, empathetic friends would talk to me.
And one last book recommendation. I haven't read this one yet, but I did buy it after seeing it recommended on r/CPTSD. (That's also where I found the rec for the first book I linked in my previous comment. The 2nd book was recommended to me by my therapist.) Anyway, like I said, I haven't read this book yet, but it looks promising, and I think maybe something like this could help you:
It wasn't your fault
One last thing, I don't know how available this is in London, but if they have Adult Children of Alcoholics (ACOA), consider checking out a meeting. (This is true even if your family members weren't alcoholics. It applies equally to anyone who grew up with childhood trauma related to parents who had mental illness, who were abusive, etc.) It's a much smaller organization with fewer meetings compared to AA, so it may not be near you. But there may also be some virtual meeting options.
One last thing to consider: I'm not going to weigh in on whether your boyfriend is contributing to this issue with jealousy. It sounds like he may be, but that's really for you to decide. But even if your boyfriend were the "perfect" boyfriend, it's possible that you're not in the right place to be in a relationship. Maybe you need to be able to focus on working through some of this trauma stuff with the help of a qualified therapist, and without the distraction of a relationship and all the things it triggers.
Or maybe not! This is deeply personal. I can't say what's right for you, and I'm not trying to say you definitely have to break up. I just wanted to throw this out there for you to think about.
I really wish I had more help to offer. In my experience, it just takes a lot of time to work through the legacy of trauma, even just finding the right tools and the right approach can take years. It took me more than a decade of trying various therapies to finally find the right therapist, the right modalities, the right diagnosis. And I'm really only the beginning phases of chipping away at this. It's really hard work, but it's worth it. It takes so much energy and time and focus basically living in a nonstop emotional flashback which is what I've been doing for years and what it sounds like you're doing. I really do hope you're able to find some peace soon.
posted by litera scripta manet at 6:31 AM on March 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: @honey-barbara, thank you. I have to quickly add that it's also equally the case that these comments were said within 8 months of knowing him and he has stopped talking about her for over two years and honours this commitment to not mentioning her again. The obsession now is purely fuelled by me. So this is *largely* to do with me, I think. I also think he is genuinely invested in seeing me improve my life and get better and he went about the wrong way to try to get this to happen. I think I make what he said sound worse than it actually was, because I'm summarising it and it sounds like he went on about her all the time, when in actuality it was about 5 occasions, over 2 years ago.....so I clearly have issues. I also feel being with him and learning about his ex has fuelled my desire to get better and I have taken concrete steps to do so. It has been strangely motivational; perhaps I need this.
@litera scripta manet, thank you too. Yes, this is all deeply rooted in my childhood traumas. Thanks for th recommendations and support
posted by Sunflower88 at 7:30 AM on March 22, 2022
@litera scripta manet, thank you too. Yes, this is all deeply rooted in my childhood traumas. Thanks for th recommendations and support
posted by Sunflower88 at 7:30 AM on March 22, 2022
However, I have to say, the "imagined sense of the ex's perfections" are not so imagined. He has directly or indirectly compared me to her, so I'm not sure how I can stop feeling this is about me and her. He said she was the most organised, efficient, high functioning, smart and present person he's ever met. He didn't say all those things in one go but over the course of a year- but they are *direct quotes* i.e he speaks of her traits in superlatives - "the most X person he's ever met".
What you know is true is that he said these things, not that they are actually true. She may actually be an awesome person, but no one is the most superior human in all ways. And it's not really normal to rank people this way. I know a lot of very smart people but I wouldn't even know what to say if you asked me who was the smartest person I've ever met.
He said these things because he's (1) hung up on idealizing someone from the past, which says more about him than anyone else, and shows that he completely lacks social awareness about what is ok to say to your present girlfriend, and/or (2) getting something out of finding the exact things to say that make you feel insecure and dependent on him.
I could never get over these comments, personally. Yes, your level of obsession is probably influenced by mental health issues and your deep insecurity, but even someone with a naturally high amount of self confidence and no history of trauma would never be able to feel okay about their relationship after getting comments like this. He'll always be the guy that openly told you about how he thinks his ex is better than you about all the things that "coincidentally" happen to be all the the things you are most insecure about.
posted by picardythird at 10:02 PM on March 22, 2022 [7 favorites]
What you know is true is that he said these things, not that they are actually true. She may actually be an awesome person, but no one is the most superior human in all ways. And it's not really normal to rank people this way. I know a lot of very smart people but I wouldn't even know what to say if you asked me who was the smartest person I've ever met.
He said these things because he's (1) hung up on idealizing someone from the past, which says more about him than anyone else, and shows that he completely lacks social awareness about what is ok to say to your present girlfriend, and/or (2) getting something out of finding the exact things to say that make you feel insecure and dependent on him.
I could never get over these comments, personally. Yes, your level of obsession is probably influenced by mental health issues and your deep insecurity, but even someone with a naturally high amount of self confidence and no history of trauma would never be able to feel okay about their relationship after getting comments like this. He'll always be the guy that openly told you about how he thinks his ex is better than you about all the things that "coincidentally" happen to be all the the things you are most insecure about.
posted by picardythird at 10:02 PM on March 22, 2022 [7 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
"The obsession completely disappeared and seems ridiculous to me now. She's just another flawed human being."
posted by firstdaffodils at 6:33 PM on March 19, 2022