I am sleeping with two guys. Where is the problem here?
April 8, 2018 10:02 PM Subscribe
If you think that what I'm doing is wrong, I'd really like to hear those opinions explained. If you think this situation is okay and have a similar experience to share I would also like to hear those too!
What is really bothering me about this, is that my mother who I am extremely close with has recently found out that I am sleeping with two guys and is mortified but trying to come to terms with it. Her opinion has made me feel very cheap and that I should be ashamed of my choice. She says that it's 'not how we raised you', as she sees sex as a private, nearly sacred thing to be shared only between two people who deeply love each other. However I personally see it as experiencing human connections in a really wonderful, pleasurable and healthy way, when consented to and entered into with a positive and open mind. No one is getting hurt, honesty and being safe comes first and I genuinely have a wholesome, trusting friendship with both of these guys above all else.
A bit more about me and the situation:
So I have never been the sort of girl that sleeps around. Not even close. I'm in my mid 20s, I have had two serious long term relationships, and have recently gotten back on the dating scene for the first time in nearly two years. I have gotten myself into the situation where I am seeing two really great guys casually, who are both aware we are not exclusive and that I am seeing another person. I began seeing "J" in January. I fell really hard, really fast for him. He is 28, model material, literally drop dead gorgeous, so worldly, clever, outgoing and kind. In my eyes, he was perfect and I wanted something more serious with him more than anything. He didn't want a relationship though and backed off for a few weeks. I was devastated but quickly found myself moving on with another guy I met, "R". He is also 28, has a very different charm about him, we could just chatter away for ages and the sex was awesome. He has made it clear he is a commitment-phobe though and just wants something casual which I am okay with. He also knows a lot about J and has helped me with my hurt feelings and the current situation. So lo and behold, while I've begun seeing R, J started contacting me again to my delight and I've been seeing him again. We slept with each other for the first time a few days ago. I am loving my time with R too much to give that up, when nothing is set in stone with J, and on top of that, R is totally fine with the situation! So here I am, enjoying the company of two men while it lasts, who are okay about not being exclusive and know that I am seeing one other guy. Is it so wrong?!
What is really bothering me about this, is that my mother who I am extremely close with has recently found out that I am sleeping with two guys and is mortified but trying to come to terms with it. Her opinion has made me feel very cheap and that I should be ashamed of my choice. She says that it's 'not how we raised you', as she sees sex as a private, nearly sacred thing to be shared only between two people who deeply love each other. However I personally see it as experiencing human connections in a really wonderful, pleasurable and healthy way, when consented to and entered into with a positive and open mind. No one is getting hurt, honesty and being safe comes first and I genuinely have a wholesome, trusting friendship with both of these guys above all else.
A bit more about me and the situation:
So I have never been the sort of girl that sleeps around. Not even close. I'm in my mid 20s, I have had two serious long term relationships, and have recently gotten back on the dating scene for the first time in nearly two years. I have gotten myself into the situation where I am seeing two really great guys casually, who are both aware we are not exclusive and that I am seeing another person. I began seeing "J" in January. I fell really hard, really fast for him. He is 28, model material, literally drop dead gorgeous, so worldly, clever, outgoing and kind. In my eyes, he was perfect and I wanted something more serious with him more than anything. He didn't want a relationship though and backed off for a few weeks. I was devastated but quickly found myself moving on with another guy I met, "R". He is also 28, has a very different charm about him, we could just chatter away for ages and the sex was awesome. He has made it clear he is a commitment-phobe though and just wants something casual which I am okay with. He also knows a lot about J and has helped me with my hurt feelings and the current situation. So lo and behold, while I've begun seeing R, J started contacting me again to my delight and I've been seeing him again. We slept with each other for the first time a few days ago. I am loving my time with R too much to give that up, when nothing is set in stone with J, and on top of that, R is totally fine with the situation! So here I am, enjoying the company of two men while it lasts, who are okay about not being exclusive and know that I am seeing one other guy. Is it so wrong?!
Seems okay so far but maybe cut your mom some slack and let more of your life be a mystery. There’s a reason parents are protective and it’s because they don’t want you to get hurt. Just find a way to thank your mom, tell her you appreciate her and will give her concerns serious thought. And then if she brings it up say, I’ll let you know if anything gets serious. As always, your body belongs to you. Take all the usual health precautions and check in with yourself from time to time that things are as you like. Don’t be fearful of asserting your needs; these guys clearly aren’t! Good luck!
posted by amanda at 10:13 PM on April 8, 2018 [19 favorites]
posted by amanda at 10:13 PM on April 8, 2018 [19 favorites]
As long as you're being honest and having safe sex, there is nothing wrong with this. I understand you're close to your mom, and your mom is probably feeling protective of you, but you're a grown woman and your sex life isn't her business.
These situations can get a little emotionally complicated, so just be sure to check in with yourself regularly about how you're feeling about all of it. If it stops feeling good and you're finding yourself wanting more, listen to that.
Have fun!
posted by blackcatcuriouser at 10:17 PM on April 8, 2018 [7 favorites]
These situations can get a little emotionally complicated, so just be sure to check in with yourself regularly about how you're feeling about all of it. If it stops feeling good and you're finding yourself wanting more, listen to that.
Have fun!
posted by blackcatcuriouser at 10:17 PM on April 8, 2018 [7 favorites]
I don't see anything unethical here. I do worry that J is still not interested in anything more serious with you, even though that's what you want with him. You already broke it off once with him over that. I don't see that his intentions have changed (indeed, he might be keeping company with you precisely because he knows you're sleeping with someone else and so aren't looking for more from him), so how are you not going to be devastated again?
posted by praemunire at 10:33 PM on April 8, 2018 [7 favorites]
posted by praemunire at 10:33 PM on April 8, 2018 [7 favorites]
Sounds fine to me. Keep being honest with people you're dating. Be less honest - or less forthcoming, at least - with your mom.
posted by rtha at 10:35 PM on April 8, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by rtha at 10:35 PM on April 8, 2018 [6 favorites]
Agree with the theory that the only “wrong” activity I see described in your question is having detailed conversations about your sex life with your mother. Maybe don’t? Keep things a little more vague? Nothing wrong with casually dating in your 20s though as long as you’re being safe and not misleading anyone,which it doesn’t sound like you are.
posted by The Gooch at 10:37 PM on April 8, 2018 [17 favorites]
posted by The Gooch at 10:37 PM on April 8, 2018 [17 favorites]
One of the nice things about growing up is realizing parents aren't always right. For years my parent was worried people would think I was a drug dealer because I had a ponytail. Twenty years later and I just took ‘em to a dispensary so they could see just how ordinary the experience is.
Your mom grew up with a different set of values, and is I'm guessing worried that you'll get hurt by other people judging. Or maybe she’s worried that you’ve gone from one dating preference to another.
There's nothing wrong with the dating situation you described. Everyone who matters (you, the guys) knows what’s what.
Me, I’d just respond to mom’s concerns with “I’m in a good place,” and maybe nod politely at her concerns, but just make the conversation as un-salacious as it deserves to be.
posted by zippy at 10:39 PM on April 8, 2018 [7 favorites]
Your mom grew up with a different set of values, and is I'm guessing worried that you'll get hurt by other people judging. Or maybe she’s worried that you’ve gone from one dating preference to another.
There's nothing wrong with the dating situation you described. Everyone who matters (you, the guys) knows what’s what.
Me, I’d just respond to mom’s concerns with “I’m in a good place,” and maybe nod politely at her concerns, but just make the conversation as un-salacious as it deserves to be.
posted by zippy at 10:39 PM on April 8, 2018 [7 favorites]
You’re not doing anything ethically wrong, if all are aware and give consent.
Certainly some people have the type of relationship with their mom where they talk about their sex life. That isn’t mine, and sounds like it might not be yours.
posted by greermahoney at 11:20 PM on April 8, 2018 [2 favorites]
Certainly some people have the type of relationship with their mom where they talk about their sex life. That isn’t mine, and sounds like it might not be yours.
posted by greermahoney at 11:20 PM on April 8, 2018 [2 favorites]
Echoing everyone else on 'it's fine, just don't discuss with your mother'.
You asked to hear from those with similar experiences, so on that note: my experience is that things can get emotionally messy in unpredictable ways, and it's worth thinking clearly now about what you do/don't want in the event of that happening. You have several things here that could lead to complications (that you wanted more of J than something casual and were devastated when J didn't; that J did that back-away-then-reappear-when-you-meet-someone-else thing; that R describes himself as a commitment phobe, which sometimes means 'isn't after anything serious' but sometimes also means 'I am not very in touch with my own feelings on relationships and react unpredictably and dramatically when they surprise me'). And while none of this means it will get messy, there's a reasonable enough chance that it might, and the act of you all saying "we're happy with things staying casual" does not prevent this happening.
None of this means you should break it off. Just, be really really clear with yourself on how you're feeling and what you want, and what you'll do if any of that changes.
posted by Catseye at 2:14 AM on April 9, 2018 [7 favorites]
You asked to hear from those with similar experiences, so on that note: my experience is that things can get emotionally messy in unpredictable ways, and it's worth thinking clearly now about what you do/don't want in the event of that happening. You have several things here that could lead to complications (that you wanted more of J than something casual and were devastated when J didn't; that J did that back-away-then-reappear-when-you-meet-someone-else thing; that R describes himself as a commitment phobe, which sometimes means 'isn't after anything serious' but sometimes also means 'I am not very in touch with my own feelings on relationships and react unpredictably and dramatically when they surprise me'). And while none of this means it will get messy, there's a reasonable enough chance that it might, and the act of you all saying "we're happy with things staying casual" does not prevent this happening.
None of this means you should break it off. Just, be really really clear with yourself on how you're feeling and what you want, and what you'll do if any of that changes.
posted by Catseye at 2:14 AM on April 9, 2018 [7 favorites]
Totally fine. I'm doing something similar, except I'm married to one of them. My mother doesn't know, because my sex life is none of her business.
posted by corvine at 2:29 AM on April 9, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by corvine at 2:29 AM on April 9, 2018 [3 favorites]
I mean.... I’ve been happily married to two people for almost a decade (and I’ve been happily non-monogamous for more than two decades). There are thousands of folks who are permanently non-monogamous. If you ever want community, role models, or advice (including advice re. the extremely common issue of issue of parents initially not being supportive), just google polyamory or ethical non-monogamy...
posted by kalapierson at 2:42 AM on April 9, 2018
posted by kalapierson at 2:42 AM on April 9, 2018
1) Your mother is not part of this and comes from a different time so ignore it. The reason for your guilt is because you are trying to reconcile your thinking with her opinion, which again is not a factor here.
2) As long as you are using protection and everyone knows that this is casual, meaning that YOU (read: not just them) can also sleep with other people then it's all good.
You are a free agent my dear, there is nothing wrong with this situation!
Once upon a time ago, I pretty much could have written this post. Not that I'm all settled down with Mr. Fish, I look back on that crazy period and kind of snicker to myself. No harm, no foul, just a lot of fun. :)
posted by floweredfish at 2:54 AM on April 9, 2018 [1 favorite]
2) As long as you are using protection and everyone knows that this is casual, meaning that YOU (read: not just them) can also sleep with other people then it's all good.
You are a free agent my dear, there is nothing wrong with this situation!
Once upon a time ago, I pretty much could have written this post. Not that I'm all settled down with Mr. Fish, I look back on that crazy period and kind of snicker to myself. No harm, no foul, just a lot of fun. :)
posted by floweredfish at 2:54 AM on April 9, 2018 [1 favorite]
I will go back and re-read your question but this part really jumped out at me:
No one is getting hurt, honesty and being safe comes first and I genuinely have a wholesome, trusting friendship with both of these guys above all else.
As long as this is true, you are doing absolutely nothing wrong. Your mother has different values from you, which is OK but also not your problem. It may not be "how she raised you," but you're an adult and so that doesn't really matter. Adults sometimes make choices that are different from what their parents would choose.
It sounds like your mom knows this and is trying not to be terrible about it. I think the best thing both of you can do is to try to avoid talking about your sex life. Stop bringing it up to her unless it's truly relevant. If she starts giving you a guilt trip or gets too nosy or otherwise gets more up in your sex life than you are comfortable with, kindly tell her to butt out.
But no, as long as the above is true you're not doing anything wrong. Not according to my value system, anyway.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 3:12 AM on April 9, 2018 [1 favorite]
No one is getting hurt, honesty and being safe comes first and I genuinely have a wholesome, trusting friendship with both of these guys above all else.
As long as this is true, you are doing absolutely nothing wrong. Your mother has different values from you, which is OK but also not your problem. It may not be "how she raised you," but you're an adult and so that doesn't really matter. Adults sometimes make choices that are different from what their parents would choose.
It sounds like your mom knows this and is trying not to be terrible about it. I think the best thing both of you can do is to try to avoid talking about your sex life. Stop bringing it up to her unless it's truly relevant. If she starts giving you a guilt trip or gets too nosy or otherwise gets more up in your sex life than you are comfortable with, kindly tell her to butt out.
But no, as long as the above is true you're not doing anything wrong. Not according to my value system, anyway.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 3:12 AM on April 9, 2018 [1 favorite]
I worry that R is a bit of a shitstirrer and that J is maybe also not great in a different way, these guys are not great men for anything longterm, but otherwise this is fine.
Enjoy it, know that eventually it will end, so don't take either of these guys seriously. Stop telling R about your feelings for other men. That's it.
posted by jbenben at 3:26 AM on April 9, 2018 [7 favorites]
Enjoy it, know that eventually it will end, so don't take either of these guys seriously. Stop telling R about your feelings for other men. That's it.
posted by jbenben at 3:26 AM on April 9, 2018 [7 favorites]
OK on closer reading I still think you're totally fine here. The only thing I'd say is that this doesn't look like a really stable situation, but not because there are two guys, just because neither of them want to commit to the more serious relationship that you sound like you're looking for long-term. You sound like you know that though and at least right now you're OK with it. As long as everybody's happy, there are zero problems with this arrangement.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 3:26 AM on April 9, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 3:26 AM on April 9, 2018 [1 favorite]
When I was in your situation, too many years ago to mention, while it was briefly quite fun and exciting, I decided it simply wasn't worth the drama and complexity to keep it going for very long. Part of the drama was a pregnancy scare and realizing that I would have no idea who my child's father might be. Before paternity tests were common - but even so I'd suggest that particular scenario still brings a little too much drama and excitement, and not much fun. Unless you like that sort of thing.
posted by Gnella at 3:46 AM on April 9, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by Gnella at 3:46 AM on April 9, 2018 [4 favorites]
I see no problem at all. Enjoy!
To be honest, I'm a tad jealous.
posted by james33 at 4:29 AM on April 9, 2018 [2 favorites]
To be honest, I'm a tad jealous.
posted by james33 at 4:29 AM on April 9, 2018 [2 favorites]
I think you’re not doing anything ethically wrong, but you are maybe doing something that will be sad for you by continuing to date and have sex with two guys who are both afraid of commitment. You’re “okay” with something casual, but it seems like you really would ultimately prefer something non-casual. If I was your mom I would be sad for you because it would sound to me like you weren’t valuing yourself very highly and were letting men set the terms of your relationships just because they were amazing guys. But as your mom I would always see you as amazing and deserving of guys like this but who wanted to commit! I would want you to find not just something that you were “okay” with but that satisfied you in every corner of your soul.
So like, if I were your mom I would prefer a situation where both of them wanted a serious relationship with you but /you/ weren’t ready to choose yet.
However, I think for your own mom it may be more of a traditional thing - she may be worried that these men don’t actually respect you if they are having sex with you without commitment, and that nobody else will either if they find out. Which - she is objectively wrong! This is not how things work anymore outside of certain slow-time communities! But this may be her fear for you.
posted by corb at 4:45 AM on April 9, 2018 [19 favorites]
So like, if I were your mom I would prefer a situation where both of them wanted a serious relationship with you but /you/ weren’t ready to choose yet.
However, I think for your own mom it may be more of a traditional thing - she may be worried that these men don’t actually respect you if they are having sex with you without commitment, and that nobody else will either if they find out. Which - she is objectively wrong! This is not how things work anymore outside of certain slow-time communities! But this may be her fear for you.
posted by corb at 4:45 AM on April 9, 2018 [19 favorites]
Yeah, there's nothing wrong with casually seeing two guys. Except you want a comittment and these guys don't. You may experience increasing emotions for these dudes, and you know they're not going to want a committee relationship. And that could end up really hurting you. YMMV and if you aren't worried about it then rock on.
posted by Kalmya at 5:18 AM on April 9, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by Kalmya at 5:18 AM on April 9, 2018 [3 favorites]
There’s nothing wrong with your situation, except in your own eyes.
That you need to explain it here and then your own denegation (“I have never been the sort of girl that sleeps around”) point to the fact that, deep inside you, what you are doing is somehow morally reprehensible.
It is not a situation where someone else can absolve you. You should either own and embrace your sex life, or quit.
posted by Kwadeng at 6:10 AM on April 9, 2018 [1 favorite]
That you need to explain it here and then your own denegation (“I have never been the sort of girl that sleeps around”) point to the fact that, deep inside you, what you are doing is somehow morally reprehensible.
It is not a situation where someone else can absolve you. You should either own and embrace your sex life, or quit.
posted by Kwadeng at 6:10 AM on April 9, 2018 [1 favorite]
Agree with what everyone else has said. You say you "wanted something serious with [J] more than anything." That's really not a good place to be in to have casual sex; have your feelings for him changed? Since neither one of them wants a relationship, at least with you, how would you feel if they each started dating other people or didn't want to be with you anymore? There's nothing ethically wrong with sleeping with two single people, but I don't think you're being very respectful to your own feelings. (I guess the one upside is that if J stops seeing you again, you may still have R to help you get over it.)
posted by pinochiette at 6:24 AM on April 9, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by pinochiette at 6:24 AM on April 9, 2018 [1 favorite]
Part of the drama was a pregnancy scare and realizing that I would have no idea who my child's father might be.
Sorry to wet-blanket your happyfunsexytimes... but... THIS. It was also my only jumping-out red flag type of thing. Because YOU NEVER KNOW. We have all heard the stories of the "I got pregnant despite being on the pill" etc. etc. and it does happen.
Please be sure you are doing everything in your power to protect yourself. Not just from STDs, but from THIS. It's all fun and games til this one-in-a-million piece of shite hits the fan.
And you would find yourself quite alone, I would think, if the stork came calling, no matter how fun and interested R and J seem to be now. :/ And this could very well be the root of your mom's concern. It would be mine, if I were in those shoes.
posted by I_Love_Bananas at 6:49 AM on April 9, 2018 [3 favorites]
Sorry to wet-blanket your happyfunsexytimes... but... THIS. It was also my only jumping-out red flag type of thing. Because YOU NEVER KNOW. We have all heard the stories of the "I got pregnant despite being on the pill" etc. etc. and it does happen.
Please be sure you are doing everything in your power to protect yourself. Not just from STDs, but from THIS. It's all fun and games til this one-in-a-million piece of shite hits the fan.
And you would find yourself quite alone, I would think, if the stork came calling, no matter how fun and interested R and J seem to be now. :/ And this could very well be the root of your mom's concern. It would be mine, if I were in those shoes.
posted by I_Love_Bananas at 6:49 AM on April 9, 2018 [3 favorites]
I think you came here to get some cheers, because you're feeling chuffed that you got J into bed. And that at the same time as having a fun setup with R, no less. You're not someone who's been real sexually active so this feels great and new and you're proud and you want to shout it from the rooftops.
Well that's fine. I'm for women getting what they want. It feels great to have a guy who dumped you come back, I know.
But it sounds to me like he came back for a booty call, not because he likes you so much. He had the chance to date you and he turned it down.
You don't have to feel guilty because your mom disapproves. But she probably disapproves because she's worried this is uncharacteristic for you, and she doesn't want you to be treated as a booty call by a guy you're really wishing would actually fall for you. Maybe she's been there herself.
It's ok. Just keep your eyes open.
posted by fingersandtoes at 7:01 AM on April 9, 2018 [14 favorites]
Well that's fine. I'm for women getting what they want. It feels great to have a guy who dumped you come back, I know.
But it sounds to me like he came back for a booty call, not because he likes you so much. He had the chance to date you and he turned it down.
You don't have to feel guilty because your mom disapproves. But she probably disapproves because she's worried this is uncharacteristic for you, and she doesn't want you to be treated as a booty call by a guy you're really wishing would actually fall for you. Maybe she's been there herself.
It's ok. Just keep your eyes open.
posted by fingersandtoes at 7:01 AM on April 9, 2018 [14 favorites]
You're not doing anything wrong, your sex life sounds absolutely fine. Relationships of any sort involve a chance of getting hurt, of course, but you can make these risk-reward assessments for yourself, without putting any stock in the "what kind of woman sleeps with two men" judgement paradigm.
However, just because you're close with your mom doesn't mean that this is the most appropriate topic of conversation to share with her. Some mothers are comfortable chatting with their adult daughters about casual sex. Most are not. Between generational differences and the fact that HER sex life is how you came to exist, she's going to be pretty biased. It's not mean or secretive of you to keep this part of your life a little more private from her.
posted by desuetude at 8:14 AM on April 9, 2018 [2 favorites]
However, just because you're close with your mom doesn't mean that this is the most appropriate topic of conversation to share with her. Some mothers are comfortable chatting with their adult daughters about casual sex. Most are not. Between generational differences and the fact that HER sex life is how you came to exist, she's going to be pretty biased. It's not mean or secretive of you to keep this part of your life a little more private from her.
posted by desuetude at 8:14 AM on April 9, 2018 [2 favorites]
Other than being insanely jealous, I don't see anything wrong with what you're currently doing, but as others have pointed out, the real issue is that you want more from J than what you're currently getting.
Having been in this situation twice, where I thought I was ok with it being casual and the other party not wanting to commit, I found that over time and with more sex my feelings quickly escalated and that both times I got really hurt as they didn't want to be monogamous. I've got a whole askme question posted with regards to the second time this happened to me with a girl.
Keep a check on your feelings, because if they do escalate too far, you probably won't have the strength to pull yourself away and then you will end up getting really hurt.
posted by inner_frustration at 10:41 AM on April 9, 2018 [2 favorites]
Having been in this situation twice, where I thought I was ok with it being casual and the other party not wanting to commit, I found that over time and with more sex my feelings quickly escalated and that both times I got really hurt as they didn't want to be monogamous. I've got a whole askme question posted with regards to the second time this happened to me with a girl.
Keep a check on your feelings, because if they do escalate too far, you probably won't have the strength to pull yourself away and then you will end up getting really hurt.
posted by inner_frustration at 10:41 AM on April 9, 2018 [2 favorites]
The only danger is that you fall for J and you can't get what you want. But that is a normal danger from any relationship.
You cannot control R or J, however and they could become dissatisfied with the arrangement. But again, those are normal dangers.
posted by Ironmouth at 11:22 AM on April 9, 2018
You cannot control R or J, however and they could become dissatisfied with the arrangement. But again, those are normal dangers.
posted by Ironmouth at 11:22 AM on April 9, 2018
I would do some careful thinking about what is bothering you here? Is that you are uncomfortable with your mother's disapproval? Or is there a part of you that thinks she might be right (or partly right). The way you write here you sound very confident that you are acting in alignment with your own values but maybe there is a little part of you isn't sure? If so, it can really help to be clear about that, either because there is a warning there you should listen to or because once you examine it, it turns out not to be an issue.
Everyone says, "just don't tell your mother" but if you are really close to her and if she is an understanding type of person, there is also the option to talk to her about how your values at heart are similar to hers but in practice lead to different conclusion about what is right. For example, you might both value integrity and caring in relationship but have a different view of when it is appropriate to have sex with someone. Obviously, don't rub it in but it would be nice if there was a way that you didn't have to hide your true self from her. (Says a mother who values her relationship with her adult children more than she values 100% compliance with her values.)
posted by metahawk at 11:59 AM on April 9, 2018 [3 favorites]
Everyone says, "just don't tell your mother" but if you are really close to her and if she is an understanding type of person, there is also the option to talk to her about how your values at heart are similar to hers but in practice lead to different conclusion about what is right. For example, you might both value integrity and caring in relationship but have a different view of when it is appropriate to have sex with someone. Obviously, don't rub it in but it would be nice if there was a way that you didn't have to hide your true self from her. (Says a mother who values her relationship with her adult children more than she values 100% compliance with her values.)
posted by metahawk at 11:59 AM on April 9, 2018 [3 favorites]
You're fine. This is fine.
For future reference, tho.
1) Mom doesn't need to know who you're dating until the relationship is meet-the-parents serious.
2) Never ever have sex with someone if you are not in bed for the same reason. Kind of sounds like one of these guys doesn't fit the bill. He never fell for you like a ton of bricks while you are over the moon for him. Drop him. The imbalance is unworkable.
Also, off-and-on for reasons other than things outside the relationship (moving for grad school, patent with cancer, lost job leading to depression spiraling out of control) is always a very bad sign. In this case, the relationship was off because you wanted something serious and he did not. And now you two are on again because ???
Date as many people as you have time for. Have sex with anyone who is seeing it the way you do. Stop telling your mom and people you are dating about your love life.
It's fine.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 12:25 PM on April 9, 2018 [6 favorites]
For future reference, tho.
1) Mom doesn't need to know who you're dating until the relationship is meet-the-parents serious.
2) Never ever have sex with someone if you are not in bed for the same reason. Kind of sounds like one of these guys doesn't fit the bill. He never fell for you like a ton of bricks while you are over the moon for him. Drop him. The imbalance is unworkable.
Also, off-and-on for reasons other than things outside the relationship (moving for grad school, patent with cancer, lost job leading to depression spiraling out of control) is always a very bad sign. In this case, the relationship was off because you wanted something serious and he did not. And now you two are on again because ???
Date as many people as you have time for. Have sex with anyone who is seeing it the way you do. Stop telling your mom and people you are dating about your love life.
It's fine.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 12:25 PM on April 9, 2018 [6 favorites]
Agreeing with others that it is absolutely fine :)
I also agree that you should check in with your own feelings regularly. I tend to fall in love at the drop of a hat and couldn't do this without a lot of angst and feelings. I would probably also hope that one or the other would change their mind about not wanting commitment because, ya know, I always hoped I would be the one who would change them! This may not be you, though!
posted by thereader at 2:13 PM on April 9, 2018
I also agree that you should check in with your own feelings regularly. I tend to fall in love at the drop of a hat and couldn't do this without a lot of angst and feelings. I would probably also hope that one or the other would change their mind about not wanting commitment because, ya know, I always hoped I would be the one who would change them! This may not be you, though!
posted by thereader at 2:13 PM on April 9, 2018
I think your mother would like you to be with someone who actually loves you, not someone (or in this case, two someones), who appear to just be using you for sex.
If you didn’t want something more, it would be easier for you, but I think pretending that sex is enough and ignoring your heart is sadly going to catch up with you. Not to mention that time spent with these emotionally dis-interested people may keep you from activities where you could meet an actual mature love-returning person.
Finally, about the pregnancy thing, both of these guys sound like boys who would ghost you and be totally unsupportive if anything happened.
posted by blueberry at 2:41 PM on April 9, 2018 [1 favorite]
If you didn’t want something more, it would be easier for you, but I think pretending that sex is enough and ignoring your heart is sadly going to catch up with you. Not to mention that time spent with these emotionally dis-interested people may keep you from activities where you could meet an actual mature love-returning person.
Finally, about the pregnancy thing, both of these guys sound like boys who would ghost you and be totally unsupportive if anything happened.
posted by blueberry at 2:41 PM on April 9, 2018 [1 favorite]
Um, non-latex condoms are AMAZING and you should be using them if you are not.
posted by jbenben at 4:39 PM on April 9, 2018
posted by jbenben at 4:39 PM on April 9, 2018
Response by poster: Everyone's comments have been so insightful and thoughtful thank you so much! I would like to point out that my feelings for J have somewhat dimmed, quite dramatically as he is not on the pedestal that I had placed him on in the beginning when I was getting to know him. I see him in a pretty different light now after everything that has happened and I feel like I am finally seeing the real J, who is still wonderful, but much more real and normal, and less the unconquerable man of my dreams haha. Maybe I'm naive but I am very close with both of these guys and like to think they would be there for me if I were to fall pregnant (I would not keep it) but I am taking all precautions!
I feel comfortable in my own choice to pursue these relationships, it's the fact that I have to live with my mum's disapproval that is the real issue. I have just graduated from university and am living at home with my family so I can save up for a deposit on a house, so it is very hard to have privacy in my life at the moment, particularly if I am spending the night somewhere else and refuse to lie to her about where I've been. She has now said that I will need to think about moving out sooner if this is my choice and they will stop supporting me in the way they currently are. This hurt, and I'm not sure if she was serious or not.
I don't know how to get her to see my opinion on what sex should be. She doesn't have to agree with it but at this stage she refuses to accept that sex is anything other than something to be shared in a loving relationship. I don't know how to get around this. She sees it as a slap in the face to her and dad, that I am willing to go against their wishes after everything they've done for me. This is what is not sitting well with me, and needs to be resolved. For once in my life, I won't back down and neither will she.
posted by belliceNH at 6:46 PM on April 9, 2018
I feel comfortable in my own choice to pursue these relationships, it's the fact that I have to live with my mum's disapproval that is the real issue. I have just graduated from university and am living at home with my family so I can save up for a deposit on a house, so it is very hard to have privacy in my life at the moment, particularly if I am spending the night somewhere else and refuse to lie to her about where I've been. She has now said that I will need to think about moving out sooner if this is my choice and they will stop supporting me in the way they currently are. This hurt, and I'm not sure if she was serious or not.
I don't know how to get her to see my opinion on what sex should be. She doesn't have to agree with it but at this stage she refuses to accept that sex is anything other than something to be shared in a loving relationship. I don't know how to get around this. She sees it as a slap in the face to her and dad, that I am willing to go against their wishes after everything they've done for me. This is what is not sitting well with me, and needs to be resolved. For once in my life, I won't back down and neither will she.
posted by belliceNH at 6:46 PM on April 9, 2018
Given your update, if it were me, I'd lie about where I was when I stayed out all night, and I'd be looking to do everything I could to move out as quickly as possible.
posted by lazuli at 7:45 PM on April 9, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by lazuli at 7:45 PM on April 9, 2018 [1 favorite]
She doesn't have to agree with it but at this stage she refuses to accept that sex is anything other than something to be shared in a loving relationship. I don't know how to get around this...You can’t; your views and your mother’s views on this issue are diametrically opposed.
This is what is not sitting well with me, and needs to be resolved. For once in my life, I won't back down and neither will she.Then you need to move out.
posted by blueberry at 7:45 PM on April 9, 2018 [7 favorites]
And I say that not because I think what you're doing is wrong, but because your morality and your mother's are in conflict, and you're living with her for (presumably) reduced/free rent. If you're going to stay with her under those circumstances, you need to defer to her more than you would if you were living independently. So prioritize living independently and/or prioritize her feelings in this situation, which I would do by lying.
posted by lazuli at 8:03 PM on April 9, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by lazuli at 8:03 PM on April 9, 2018 [3 favorites]
Given the update, I would ask myself if these two flings were actually worth it.
I hate to sound so hard-headed about it all. I wouldn't even say it if her issue was that you were having sex with someone you loved, in a committed relationship, or even with someone you thought you were heading in that direction with. But if I had to choose between stabilizing my finances and purely casual sex for the short term, I'd go for the first option. J and R could each vanish next week without violating any commitments to you. Would that be worth sacrificing your familial support? It doesn't even sound like purely casual sex is really what you want out of life anyway.
Save up your down payment, and you can sleep with whomever you want in perfect privacy.
posted by praemunire at 9:03 PM on April 9, 2018 [9 favorites]
I hate to sound so hard-headed about it all. I wouldn't even say it if her issue was that you were having sex with someone you loved, in a committed relationship, or even with someone you thought you were heading in that direction with. But if I had to choose between stabilizing my finances and purely casual sex for the short term, I'd go for the first option. J and R could each vanish next week without violating any commitments to you. Would that be worth sacrificing your familial support? It doesn't even sound like purely casual sex is really what you want out of life anyway.
Save up your down payment, and you can sleep with whomever you want in perfect privacy.
posted by praemunire at 9:03 PM on April 9, 2018 [9 favorites]
Response by poster: Thanks for that praemunire. If it comes down to it, I will be choosing a stable environment saving up for my own place any day. What disappoints and frustrates me is that I'm being put in this uncomfortable position by my mother, who I am so close with and open about so much in my life. I do respect her opinions and she does not have to agree with mine, but I am willing to try and resolve this with her before I cut two people out of my life who I really enjoy being with. Again, lying and sneaking around is not an option. It doesn't sit well with me and just not how I roll but I do want a little more privacy and less questions asked on her part.
posted by belliceNH at 10:09 PM on April 9, 2018
posted by belliceNH at 10:09 PM on April 9, 2018
Neither of you are wrong about this but if your mother is not comfortable witnessing you behave in a manner that she feels is unethical, it does make sense that she's asking you not to behave that way while you're living in her house where she can see it. Your mother likely thinks that you are putting her in an uncomfortable position. It's not really reasonable for you to expect that she could just look the other way on an issue that she thinks is wrong. If she's communicating this in a controlling or shame-inducing way then that's absolutely not cool, though.
posted by Polychrome at 1:23 AM on April 10, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by Polychrome at 1:23 AM on April 10, 2018 [3 favorites]
Mod note: belliceNH, moderator here. Just quickly, so you understand the conventions of Ask Metafilter: it's not a place to discuss and chat about how you feel about a situation or issue; the purpose is to ask a concrete question and get various suggestions which you can evaluate on your own and use or not as you see fit. It's fine to answer essential questions to clear up any misunderstandings (and, perhaps in the end post a conclusion about how it turned out, or what decision you made) but beyond that, it's better to just relax and consider the advice. Quick rule of thumb is that questions that are "help me understand / solve [issue]" are fine, while posts that are "I want to discuss [issue]" are not, and better suited to talk about with a counsellor or friend.
posted by taz (staff) at 1:27 AM on April 10, 2018
posted by taz (staff) at 1:27 AM on April 10, 2018
> I don't know how to get her to see my opinion on what sex should be. She doesn't have to agree with it but at this stage she refuses to accept that sex is anything other than something to be shared in a loving relationship. I don't know how to get around this. She sees it as a slap in the face to her and dad, that I am willing to go against their wishes after everything they've done for me. This is what is not sitting well with me, and needs to be resolved. For once in my life, I won't back down and neither will she.
This is heading down a path of manipulative and controlling behavior, and I urge you to start setting boundaries now for the good of your long-term relationship with your parents. I'm not saying that your parents are terrible people or abusive. I'm sure they mean well and think that they are helping you get the most of life. However, "after everything they've done for you" type of talk is emotional blackmail. You did not ask to be born. No-one asks to be born. It is their obligation to care for you until you are grown, and you don't owe them obedience in return.
You owe it to yourself to make your own choices about your sex life and the terms of your romantic relationships. This is stuff that you have to figure out on your own, your parents can't and shouldn't try to do it for you. Certainly I would expect any parent to give advice against what they see as self-destructive behavior, but they also need to adjust to the fact that you are you are an adult woman, albeit pretty young, and your having some casual sex is not the end of the world. Please reconsider moving out. Not in anger over this situation, but because it's time for you to leave the nest for your sake and theirs. Honestly, it is going to be very, very difficult for them to suddenly see you as anything other than the little girl they raised if you are living at home with them.
posted by desuetude at 8:31 AM on April 10, 2018 [3 favorites]
This is heading down a path of manipulative and controlling behavior, and I urge you to start setting boundaries now for the good of your long-term relationship with your parents. I'm not saying that your parents are terrible people or abusive. I'm sure they mean well and think that they are helping you get the most of life. However, "after everything they've done for you" type of talk is emotional blackmail. You did not ask to be born. No-one asks to be born. It is their obligation to care for you until you are grown, and you don't owe them obedience in return.
You owe it to yourself to make your own choices about your sex life and the terms of your romantic relationships. This is stuff that you have to figure out on your own, your parents can't and shouldn't try to do it for you. Certainly I would expect any parent to give advice against what they see as self-destructive behavior, but they also need to adjust to the fact that you are you are an adult woman, albeit pretty young, and your having some casual sex is not the end of the world. Please reconsider moving out. Not in anger over this situation, but because it's time for you to leave the nest for your sake and theirs. Honestly, it is going to be very, very difficult for them to suddenly see you as anything other than the little girl they raised if you are living at home with them.
posted by desuetude at 8:31 AM on April 10, 2018 [3 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
My only concern would be for you in a longer term emotional sense- it sounds like you ultimately might want a monogamous relationship, but both of these guys aren't into that. Just don't expect them to change- I mean, they could, but generally people show you who they are so you should accept and believe what they say.
So just make sure to keep tabs on your own heart, and when the time comes, be ready to make moves that will put you in a place to get what you're looking for long-term. In other words, if what you want is a monogamous partner, at some point you may want to break things off with R&J so you can be single while you look for one.
The other thing to think about is safer sex- you probably don't want to fluid-bond with either R or J since you know they're both non-monog, so using condoms is probably a good move.
Probably the simplest answer is to just stop telling your mom all the details of your sex life. She's from a different time and has different ideas, and that's ok... you probably can't convert her at this point, and even if you could, you'll have to absorb a lot of her secondhand shame, which sounds like a drag.
What you're doing- practicing ethical polyamory - is absolutely ok, and it sounds like you're doing it respectfully and in an empowered way. It's pretty common in our era & cultural milieu (for what that's worth). And it sounds like you're doing it well. Enjoy it!
posted by pseudostrabismus at 10:13 PM on April 8, 2018 [32 favorites]