Justice?
June 15, 2017 6:11 PM Subscribe
Should I warn my abuser's new fiance?
8 years ago I left my emotionally abusive, gaslighting boyfriend after I found out he'd been cheating on me with... well basically anyone he could, whenever he could.
I didn't tell anyone who knew him what he'd done, I just returned to my home state and picked up the pieces. I was a bit brainwashed and told him I forgave him but could never be with him. I never got to have any sort of revenge. I blocked him from contacting me although he did send letters for quite some time. I am still working to undo the damage he did to me.
At around the same time this all came out, he was offered a full scholarship to a bible college because some missionary men he was friends with felt he was an inspirational leader and that god could reform his cheating which was basically a symptom of not being religious enough - wat. He became a pastor. They felt I'd been a bad influence because I wasn't a Christian and because we were having sex outside marriage and that THAT was why our relationship had "failed".
Anyway he tried to connect with me on linked in the other day - I reported him as someone I don't know. I looked him up on fb and he's just got engaged. But now I'm wondering if for the sisterhood I should contact his fiance and just give her a heads up? Admittedly some of my interest would be in ruining his happiness, but I do feel for her. He's very charasmatic but a terribly cruel person.
8 years ago I left my emotionally abusive, gaslighting boyfriend after I found out he'd been cheating on me with... well basically anyone he could, whenever he could.
I didn't tell anyone who knew him what he'd done, I just returned to my home state and picked up the pieces. I was a bit brainwashed and told him I forgave him but could never be with him. I never got to have any sort of revenge. I blocked him from contacting me although he did send letters for quite some time. I am still working to undo the damage he did to me.
At around the same time this all came out, he was offered a full scholarship to a bible college because some missionary men he was friends with felt he was an inspirational leader and that god could reform his cheating which was basically a symptom of not being religious enough - wat. He became a pastor. They felt I'd been a bad influence because I wasn't a Christian and because we were having sex outside marriage and that THAT was why our relationship had "failed".
Anyway he tried to connect with me on linked in the other day - I reported him as someone I don't know. I looked him up on fb and he's just got engaged. But now I'm wondering if for the sisterhood I should contact his fiance and just give her a heads up? Admittedly some of my interest would be in ruining his happiness, but I do feel for her. He's very charasmatic but a terribly cruel person.
Response by poster: (Yes, I certainly want revenge and want him to suffer the way I did. I'd love to out him to his community. I wish I'd done it at the time)
posted by Chrysalis at 6:17 PM on June 15, 2017
posted by Chrysalis at 6:17 PM on June 15, 2017
Strictly as a point of information, you will not ruin his happiness because she will not believe you for a millisecond. It may in fact add to his happiness to find out that you are still thinking about him in this way.
posted by ftm at 6:18 PM on June 15, 2017 [98 favorites]
posted by ftm at 6:18 PM on June 15, 2017 [98 favorites]
This is really tough.
What I'm sure of is this: he will either deny what you tell her, or plead the blood of the Lord and say he is forgiven. And she -- being a woman in a conservative, patriarchal belief system -- will draw on a lifetime's worth of lessons and a whole social network of people telling her that her job in life is to forgive men and submit to their headship. Chances are, she will not listen to you, and if he finds out what you did, he will seek revenge.
There may be a way that you can genuinely help this woman in the future, but flat-out telling her these things will probably be like trying to scale a sheer wall with your fingernails.
posted by Countess Elena at 6:19 PM on June 15, 2017 [20 favorites]
What I'm sure of is this: he will either deny what you tell her, or plead the blood of the Lord and say he is forgiven. And she -- being a woman in a conservative, patriarchal belief system -- will draw on a lifetime's worth of lessons and a whole social network of people telling her that her job in life is to forgive men and submit to their headship. Chances are, she will not listen to you, and if he finds out what you did, he will seek revenge.
There may be a way that you can genuinely help this woman in the future, but flat-out telling her these things will probably be like trying to scale a sheer wall with your fingernails.
posted by Countess Elena at 6:19 PM on June 15, 2017 [20 favorites]
People can change a lot in 8 years. You have no idea what he's like now. Leave this alone.
posted by amro at 6:23 PM on June 15, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by amro at 6:23 PM on June 15, 2017 [21 favorites]
I would say no. You can help people out in other ways that don't bring you back into the maelstrom of your ex's life.
posted by zippy at 6:23 PM on June 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by zippy at 6:23 PM on June 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
Couldn't agree more with ftm. Doing this would absolutely add to his happiness. He wants your attention and would thoroughly delight in knowing he has such power over you that he is still on your mind eight years after the fact.
posted by sevensnowflakes at 6:24 PM on June 15, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by sevensnowflakes at 6:24 PM on June 15, 2017 [14 favorites]
(Yes, I certainly want revenge and want him to suffer the way I did.…)
To be clear, when I mentioned "revenge," I meant to suggest that he or should could try to get revenge on you.
posted by John Cohen at 6:31 PM on June 15, 2017
To be clear, when I mentioned "revenge," I meant to suggest that he or should could try to get revenge on you.
posted by John Cohen at 6:31 PM on June 15, 2017
The best revenge is building a life so full of good things (including self-love) and so wonderful that you never give this guy another thought because he is but a now-meaningless spec of dust on a road you traveled long ago. Any scheming to get revenge, etc., will backfire if only because it means you are still making deposits into the bank of that guy instead of into your own best interests and well being. That revenge stuff is great in movies but generally sucks ass in real life. Sorry.
posted by Bella Donna at 6:32 PM on June 15, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by Bella Donna at 6:32 PM on June 15, 2017 [20 favorites]
Look forward. Focus on really, truly, not giving a shit about him any longer. He doesn't deserve the energy or time from you. You don't need to give what he does or does not do any more of your time or attention.
If you do anything, you continue to tie yourself to him,and on some level, that's attractive. Continuing the drama is addictive, but you'll never really be free that way.
posted by Ink-stained wretch at 6:34 PM on June 15, 2017
If you do anything, you continue to tie yourself to him,and on some level, that's attractive. Continuing the drama is addictive, but you'll never really be free that way.
posted by Ink-stained wretch at 6:34 PM on June 15, 2017
Response by poster: Yeah you guys are right. I just had a disappointing date and got frustrated. I'll go back to my own life. My friend just emailed me that she's bought us surprise tickets to the ballet. It's not so bad.
posted by Chrysalis at 6:35 PM on June 15, 2017 [46 favorites]
posted by Chrysalis at 6:35 PM on June 15, 2017 [46 favorites]
I agree with the general sentiment in the thread. Here are some hugs for you as well ＼(^-^)／ ＼(^-^)／ ＼(^-^)／＼(^-^)／＼(^-^)／
posted by ipsative at 6:44 PM on June 15, 2017 [25 favorites]
posted by ipsative at 6:44 PM on June 15, 2017 [25 favorites]
The only way to win this kind of "game" is to refuse to play. Walk (run) away from this and never look back. Don't talk to him, don't talk to people in his life, don't contact later girlfriends, don't look him up. It will not make your life better in any way.
posted by ktkt at 6:47 PM on June 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by ktkt at 6:47 PM on June 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
Write a letter with all your feelings, including all the dark ones where you wish him all the pain and anguish that he put on you. Then, in a safe place, burn it. Tell yourself that you give yourself permission to move on and he is no longer allowed a place in your life.
posted by amanda at 7:42 PM on June 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by amanda at 7:42 PM on June 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
Live your life well. Better revenge.
posted by Toddles at 8:15 PM on June 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Toddles at 8:15 PM on June 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
(Linkedin automatically contacts people from your contact history. Unless you know that he wrote you a personalized message, it's likely he didn't actually reach out to you himself, the contact was created via their algorithms).
Nthing that the fiance would likely either not believe you, or that she knows his past but believes him to be godly and reformed. I think there's more potential for you to get hurt here than for you to find satisfaction or resolution.
posted by vignettist at 8:15 PM on June 15, 2017
Nthing that the fiance would likely either not believe you, or that she knows his past but believes him to be godly and reformed. I think there's more potential for you to get hurt here than for you to find satisfaction or resolution.
posted by vignettist at 8:15 PM on June 15, 2017
(Linkedin automatically contacts people from your contact history. Unless you know that he wrote you a personalized message, it's likely he didn't actually reach out to you himself, the contact was created via their algorithms).
I don't think that's accurate. There's a clear difference between a message someone chooses to send to you on LinkedIn vs. the website's auto-generated suggestions of people to connect with. So I think it would be best to assume the OP was correctly interpreting the message.
posted by John Cohen at 9:04 PM on June 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
I don't think that's accurate. There's a clear difference between a message someone chooses to send to you on LinkedIn vs. the website's auto-generated suggestions of people to connect with. So I think it would be best to assume the OP was correctly interpreting the message.
posted by John Cohen at 9:04 PM on June 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
Respectfully, I disagree with your statement John Cohen. I have gotten messages via Linkedin that said "Joe Smith wants to be friends" that I know for a fact were not intentionally sent by Joe Smith. They are not same as the generic "Do you know Bob Smith, Jane Smith, or Tom Smith?" messages that are sent out monthly. I think they are generated when you sign up and it says "do you want to connect with your contacts from Google (or whatever)?" It makes it look like the person is intentionally trying to contact you, but in fact they did not. As I said in my comment, OP would be able to discern a truly personalized email from one of these "... wants to connect" emails.
posted by vignettist at 9:13 PM on June 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by vignettist at 9:13 PM on June 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
1) Living well is the best revenge.
2) Almost nobody believes anyone outside of the relationship. My mother was warned by my father's first wife that he was emotionally abusive. She was warned by the "maid" (for want of a better term) who had been with him for more than a decade. She was warned by his office staff. It took her six months to realize they were probably right, two years to realize they were definitely right, and 50 years to extricate herself.
3) There's nothing you could say to that woman he's with that will sway her, and there's nothing that will hurt him beyond the crushing knowledge that you are so much happier without him. And honestly, we THINK that making people who hurt us feel hurt will make us feel better, but it never does. That's because we're better than they are.
Be happy that you have escaped and keep working on making your life better. I'm sending you good vibes.
posted by The Wrong Kind of Cheese at 11:06 PM on June 15, 2017 [12 favorites]
2) Almost nobody believes anyone outside of the relationship. My mother was warned by my father's first wife that he was emotionally abusive. She was warned by the "maid" (for want of a better term) who had been with him for more than a decade. She was warned by his office staff. It took her six months to realize they were probably right, two years to realize they were definitely right, and 50 years to extricate herself.
3) There's nothing you could say to that woman he's with that will sway her, and there's nothing that will hurt him beyond the crushing knowledge that you are so much happier without him. And honestly, we THINK that making people who hurt us feel hurt will make us feel better, but it never does. That's because we're better than they are.
Be happy that you have escaped and keep working on making your life better. I'm sending you good vibes.
posted by The Wrong Kind of Cheese at 11:06 PM on June 15, 2017 [12 favorites]
I think they are generated when you sign up and it says "do you want to connect with your contacts from Google (or whatever)?"
This something of a derail, but, yes, this is how you get inadvertent contact requests on LinkedIn. It is however, not "created via their algorithms", in the sense of "some fancy machine learning thing we couldn't possibly understand". It's the result of the rather deceptive UI that directly asks for access to your email.
Anyway, it's a good point. LinkedIn's UI can be very deceptive when it comes to importing contacts. Depending on the context, it's non-obvious to the user that they're going to try to connect to every person/entity they've ever emailed. (And non-obvious to the recipient, too, unless the invitations are going to an email not associated with a LinkedIn account.) Of course, lots of people don't change the default message on the connection invitation when they add someone individually.
posted by hoyland at 4:17 AM on June 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
This something of a derail, but, yes, this is how you get inadvertent contact requests on LinkedIn. It is however, not "created via their algorithms", in the sense of "some fancy machine learning thing we couldn't possibly understand". It's the result of the rather deceptive UI that directly asks for access to your email.
Anyway, it's a good point. LinkedIn's UI can be very deceptive when it comes to importing contacts. Depending on the context, it's non-obvious to the user that they're going to try to connect to every person/entity they've ever emailed. (And non-obvious to the recipient, too, unless the invitations are going to an email not associated with a LinkedIn account.) Of course, lots of people don't change the default message on the connection invitation when they add someone individually.
posted by hoyland at 4:17 AM on June 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
He will tell her you're crazy and still in love with him. He may already have done this.
My abusive ex had lots of hilarious stories about his crazy ex-girlfriends, including one who claimed (absurdly!) that he'd beat her up. If she had tried to warn me I'd have dismissed her out of hand. For what it's worth I certainly believe her now.
He's used you as a scapegoat for his past bad behaviour in his community. You don't have any credibility there. His community and his fiance will take his word against yours and you will feel a million times worse.
I felt very bitter when I saw how happy my ex looked with his new girlfriend while I was still a total mess. But being cruel and abusive is its own punishment. Unless he does some serious work on himself, he'll never know what it's like to truly love someone, and whatever happiness he finds will be superficial.
I've tried to channel my hurt and anger into improving my relationship with myself and how I relate to others (mindfulness, self-care, therapy and David Richo's books have helped with this).
My goal is to wish him well and never think of him again (!) because what matters is not whether or not he's happy, but that I am.
Good luck.
posted by Dwardles at 4:41 AM on June 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
My abusive ex had lots of hilarious stories about his crazy ex-girlfriends, including one who claimed (absurdly!) that he'd beat her up. If she had tried to warn me I'd have dismissed her out of hand. For what it's worth I certainly believe her now.
He's used you as a scapegoat for his past bad behaviour in his community. You don't have any credibility there. His community and his fiance will take his word against yours and you will feel a million times worse.
I felt very bitter when I saw how happy my ex looked with his new girlfriend while I was still a total mess. But being cruel and abusive is its own punishment. Unless he does some serious work on himself, he'll never know what it's like to truly love someone, and whatever happiness he finds will be superficial.
I've tried to channel my hurt and anger into improving my relationship with myself and how I relate to others (mindfulness, self-care, therapy and David Richo's books have helped with this).
My goal is to wish him well and never think of him again (!) because what matters is not whether or not he's happy, but that I am.
Good luck.
posted by Dwardles at 4:41 AM on June 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
Response by poster: Follow up: it was a request notification through the actual linked in app, rather than one of those email ones that areally automatically generated.
posted by Chrysalis at 5:30 AM on June 16, 2017
posted by Chrysalis at 5:30 AM on June 16, 2017
Can you send something anonymously? 'Out of concern, I wish to send you this' etc. with non-incriminating details (i.e. making sure you cannot be identified through the information you share). Your priority should be in caring for her/helping her be safe not in getting revenge on him, though, because you need to have the right focus when writing it. Bullet-point it if anything. I understand the desire for revenge but that's not something that is possible (buy a revenge doll?). I would personally want to know but at the same time, people are revoltingly (beautifully?) optimistic that the same thing won't happen to them. Maybe it won't. Sometimes people's characters mesh in such a way that it doesn't happen. As stated above, sometimes people change. He may have had therapy. Having said that, if I personally had a history of being attracted to abusive men and I happened to be dating one, I would want to be aware of that fact.
posted by ihaveyourfoot at 6:16 AM on June 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
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posted by ihaveyourfoot at 6:16 AM on June 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
So, I did this back in college. My ex started a relationship with the woman he cheated on me with and I had found out that he was a serial cheater. I wanted to spare her what I had gone through, yes, but I also didn't want him to get his cake, you know? So I sent her an email and she wrote back and said, very nicely actually, that she appreciated the gesture but there were two sides to every story, etc. She very clearly wasn't going to listen to what I had to say.
About a year later, she sent me an email apologizing for any hurt feelings and letting me know that he did, in fact, cheat on her and they had broken up. She stated that at the time of my first email, she honestly thought that things would be different and that everything he had told her about our relationship was true and I was exaggerating and lying. Nothing I could have said would have made any difference to her.
People have to come to their truth in their own ways. Maybe he's changed. Even if he hasn't, though, there is absolutely no way she is going to believe anything you say, and then he gets the satisfaction of knowing that you still think about him and he's still affecting your life. Let this go. Let him go.
posted by cooker girl at 6:30 AM on June 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
About a year later, she sent me an email apologizing for any hurt feelings and letting me know that he did, in fact, cheat on her and they had broken up. She stated that at the time of my first email, she honestly thought that things would be different and that everything he had told her about our relationship was true and I was exaggerating and lying. Nothing I could have said would have made any difference to her.
People have to come to their truth in their own ways. Maybe he's changed. Even if he hasn't, though, there is absolutely no way she is going to believe anything you say, and then he gets the satisfaction of knowing that you still think about him and he's still affecting your life. Let this go. Let him go.
posted by cooker girl at 6:30 AM on June 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
Stay away from him. What he does to her is his fault, not yours. She won't be willing to hear you, and you'll just get more hurt and upset.
Every day you don't have him in your life is a day you win. Every day you build a better life is a day you win. Every day you don't think of him is a day you win.
Block him anywhere you can block him and go on being fabulous.
posted by bile and syntax at 7:50 AM on June 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
Every day you don't have him in your life is a day you win. Every day you build a better life is a day you win. Every day you don't think of him is a day you win.
Block him anywhere you can block him and go on being fabulous.
posted by bile and syntax at 7:50 AM on June 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
I think the best revenge is the non reaction to him trying to get a rise out of you by contacting you via LinkedIn. It will really disappoint him that you didn't give him the time of day.
posted by *s at 8:57 AM on June 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by *s at 8:57 AM on June 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
I was in this situation but with a different timeline. My abusive ex shacked up with someone the minute the ink on our divorce decree was dry (they'd started dating three months after I left him, apparently) and I wanted to tell her so badly, but like others said, I knew she wouldn't have believed me. Would you have believed a stranger when you were in limerence with him? I'm sure he seemed like a great guy then, so you'd just convince yourself that he'd changed after his previous breakup.
Since you've already agreed with the tenor of the thread, I'll just say you'll be better off blocking him on all social media so you're not tempted to look at wedding pictures and such. Knowing what he's up to - especially if your own romantic life isn't going as well - will just make you unhappy. It won't affect him at all.
posted by AFABulous at 10:19 AM on June 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
Since you've already agreed with the tenor of the thread, I'll just say you'll be better off blocking him on all social media so you're not tempted to look at wedding pictures and such. Knowing what he's up to - especially if your own romantic life isn't going as well - will just make you unhappy. It won't affect him at all.
posted by AFABulous at 10:19 AM on June 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
Also, your previous question was about jealousy, so this is really just an extension to a different arena.
posted by AFABulous at 10:21 AM on June 16, 2017
posted by AFABulous at 10:21 AM on June 16, 2017
I would vote for yes because you have the opportunity to warn an innocent person about something that's probably going to hurt them terribly.
I imagine if I were going to write such a letter, I would start off by saying that while I understand that the recipient may choose to not believe me, that I couldn't stand aside and let an innocent person get hurt without trying to warn them.
I would say that the abuser and I were together for X amount of months/years and in that time the following types of abuses were performed by the individual...
That I was mentioning these incidents and types of abuse, so that she might be forewarned should such abuses be inflicted upon her--so that she would know that these weren't flukes, or one-time things, but actual repeated abusive behaviors, and perhaps warning signs of worse things to come.
I would close--again--with the stated realization that this letter may be laughed away, but that it was my duty as a human to try to warn a good person away from entering a situation with a person with a history of domestic abuse.
Also, I f the abuse didn't start right away, I would also say something like "Please, for the love of God, do not have children with this person unless they exhibit zero of these abusive traits over the first year/whatever."
You have the chance to try to save someone.
That's a chance I'd take.
posted by blueberry at 7:05 PM on June 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
I imagine if I were going to write such a letter, I would start off by saying that while I understand that the recipient may choose to not believe me, that I couldn't stand aside and let an innocent person get hurt without trying to warn them.
I would say that the abuser and I were together for X amount of months/years and in that time the following types of abuses were performed by the individual...
That I was mentioning these incidents and types of abuse, so that she might be forewarned should such abuses be inflicted upon her--so that she would know that these weren't flukes, or one-time things, but actual repeated abusive behaviors, and perhaps warning signs of worse things to come.
I would close--again--with the stated realization that this letter may be laughed away, but that it was my duty as a human to try to warn a good person away from entering a situation with a person with a history of domestic abuse.
Also, I f the abuse didn't start right away, I would also say something like "Please, for the love of God, do not have children with this person unless they exhibit zero of these abusive traits over the first year/whatever."
You have the chance to try to save someone.
That's a chance I'd take.
posted by blueberry at 7:05 PM on June 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
Yes, I'm going to go with the very unpopular option of go ahead and tell her if you want. Yeah, she might not believe you, in which case nothing changes and it doesn't matter, but it also might help save her from a horrible situation. If I was her, I would want to know -- she's not necessarily unintelligent, or anything. But you also don't have a moral obligation to do so, and if living well is the best revenge works for you, do that.
Basically do whatever you want, what feels best to you in your gut. There's no right or wrong thing to do, and no guarantee that in a situation like this you can know the outcome based on anecdotes from other people. And to be honest, there's nothing wrong with wanting revenge on him or wanting to hurt him? It seems like there's pushback against that too (especially if you're a woman, woof), but it's a totally normal way to feel. You deserve to feel that way. Be happy, live well, but don't ever feel like you need to repress wanting this shitty dude to feel some of his own shittiness.
posted by colorblock sock at 2:06 PM on June 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
Basically do whatever you want, what feels best to you in your gut. There's no right or wrong thing to do, and no guarantee that in a situation like this you can know the outcome based on anecdotes from other people. And to be honest, there's nothing wrong with wanting revenge on him or wanting to hurt him? It seems like there's pushback against that too (especially if you're a woman, woof), but it's a totally normal way to feel. You deserve to feel that way. Be happy, live well, but don't ever feel like you need to repress wanting this shitty dude to feel some of his own shittiness.
posted by colorblock sock at 2:06 PM on June 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
My feeling is that when you talk to her, acknowledge the fact that she may think you are telling tales, but that the possible embarrassment of her thinking so
was easily outweighed by your wanting to help someone avoid the mental and/or physical abuse that you received. That that's the kind of thing you wouldn't anyone to have to experience.
That way, if she's inclined (or even encouraged) to think you're lying, you at least planted the seed that you are actually doing it with her well-being in mind.
Even if she ends up with him, she may remember your words when she sees signs or starts to experience abuse, allowing her to perhaps extricate herself from the abusive relationship sooner.
posted by blueberry at 6:00 PM on June 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
was easily outweighed by your wanting to help someone avoid the mental and/or physical abuse that you received. That that's the kind of thing you wouldn't anyone to have to experience.
That way, if she's inclined (or even encouraged) to think you're lying, you at least planted the seed that you are actually doing it with her well-being in mind.
Even if she ends up with him, she may remember your words when she sees signs or starts to experience abuse, allowing her to perhaps extricate herself from the abusive relationship sooner.
posted by blueberry at 6:00 PM on June 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by John Cohen at 6:15 PM on June 15, 2017 [16 favorites]