How to be friends when you wanted more
March 5, 2016 11:22 AM Subscribe
I have a lot of female friends, but no guy friends. So it's already a little harder for me to navigate this.
I have a few questions:
1. Is it normal behavior for a guy to text everyday and only go on one-on-one hangouts with a girl?
2. Is it even possible to be friends with someone you have some sort of feelings for?
3. Do I tell him I feel confused?
We dated once, he didn't feel it. We tried to stay friends. He send mixed signals all the time. I let myself unleash full drama on him in all my anger and confusion. He broke off contact.
In all fairness, I wasn't quite myself when we met because of some childhood stuff I had to process. All in all, I really enjoyed our time together. He's a rather shy, really nice guy. I missed my friend. So I took some time to heal myself, appologised and asked to meet up to talk. We didn't say a word about what happened and are back to being friends since.
Only know he initiates most of it, texts me nearly everyday and his texts are even more borderline friendship than they were before. We see eachother every two weeks. He kinda flirts with me. Not too heavy. I know not to make more of it, I really am ok with just friends but it's so damn frustrating to believe that this guy has absolutely no feelings for me when everything else goes so smooth and feels so good. It keeps me wondering what if and I dont like feeling this way. I want to address that, but I'm afraid he will pull back all together when I do. I tried backing of, he only sends more texts when I do. I now canceled a big thing we had planned but feel sad because I too was looking forward to it.
We dated once, he didn't feel it. We tried to stay friends. He send mixed signals all the time. I let myself unleash full drama on him in all my anger and confusion. He broke off contact.
In all fairness, I wasn't quite myself when we met because of some childhood stuff I had to process. All in all, I really enjoyed our time together. He's a rather shy, really nice guy. I missed my friend. So I took some time to heal myself, appologised and asked to meet up to talk. We didn't say a word about what happened and are back to being friends since.
Only know he initiates most of it, texts me nearly everyday and his texts are even more borderline friendship than they were before. We see eachother every two weeks. He kinda flirts with me. Not too heavy. I know not to make more of it, I really am ok with just friends but it's so damn frustrating to believe that this guy has absolutely no feelings for me when everything else goes so smooth and feels so good. It keeps me wondering what if and I dont like feeling this way. I want to address that, but I'm afraid he will pull back all together when I do. I tried backing of, he only sends more texts when I do. I now canceled a big thing we had planned but feel sad because I too was looking forward to it.
This was my life for a long time. I was always with guys in this sort of "dry dating" scenario where we'd had some sort of conversation about how we weren't dating but then he'd act all dating-y. And honestly while I think you can ascribe negative motives on to people who are doing this, I really came around to the feeling that most of the time they didn't really know any better. That is, they SAID they didn't want to date you, so anything else they are doing is in a context of "You know we are not dating" to them and they're just doing what they feel like doing and if it doesn't work for you, it's totally AOK to say that.
That said, for whatever reason some guys (maybe women too but I have not been in that scenario) will often have a sort of close female friend who becomes a default date for things up until they meet someone who they "really" want to date. Or some people have intimacy issues and are okay with this sort of text-all-the-time closeness but don't want to take it further with anyone. I think you can't really know what is up with him unless he tells you, but you can say "Look, I understand you don't want to date me but this is a little too close for me to feel like we are just friends so I am going to ease off of this somewhat" and he can take it or leave it.
Incidentally I did wind up meeting people who were interested in dating me-for-me and not me as a placeholder until they found someone more "girlfriend like" but it was easier when I was truly single and not in this weird half-dating scenario with a guy. Best of luck.
posted by jessamyn at 11:40 AM on March 5, 2016 [14 favorites]
That said, for whatever reason some guys (maybe women too but I have not been in that scenario) will often have a sort of close female friend who becomes a default date for things up until they meet someone who they "really" want to date. Or some people have intimacy issues and are okay with this sort of text-all-the-time closeness but don't want to take it further with anyone. I think you can't really know what is up with him unless he tells you, but you can say "Look, I understand you don't want to date me but this is a little too close for me to feel like we are just friends so I am going to ease off of this somewhat" and he can take it or leave it.
Incidentally I did wind up meeting people who were interested in dating me-for-me and not me as a placeholder until they found someone more "girlfriend like" but it was easier when I was truly single and not in this weird half-dating scenario with a guy. Best of luck.
posted by jessamyn at 11:40 AM on March 5, 2016 [14 favorites]
I disagree with the above two posters. This guy has been honest with you and apparently wants to be your friend. He's not lied to you or led you on and I don't think he's using you. Lots of friendships grow out of failed dates. He likes you but not romantically, more in a let's double date in the future kind of way. You, otoh, have not been honest. You don't want to be friends. You see his actions in a potential romantic context because you're hoping some weird romance novel shit will happen and he'll suddenly realize you're the love of his life or something despite him saying explicitly he's not interested.
I've obviously been on the other end of this where I thought I had a perfectly nice and good friendship with someone (several someones over the years actually) and it turned out they had constructed what was essentially a fantasy shadow relationship with all kinds of subtext. I'm not keeping these guys (or girls) around for the attention. I can get that from people I am actually romantically involved with. When I found out, usually through some dramatic "I can't talk to you anymore" scene, it made me angry and I felt used, that someone was pretending to be my friend and to genuinely care about me when all they wanted was to get into my pants. And more, that they felt entitled to sex, that I was leading them on by being nice to them or telling them personal things about myself, as one does with friends. Usually at this point it's become a point of discussion with mutual friends too and people are taking sides. Just because I was accepted what appeared to be a genuine offer of friendship.
posted by fshgrl at 11:50 AM on March 5, 2016 [15 favorites]
I've obviously been on the other end of this where I thought I had a perfectly nice and good friendship with someone (several someones over the years actually) and it turned out they had constructed what was essentially a fantasy shadow relationship with all kinds of subtext. I'm not keeping these guys (or girls) around for the attention. I can get that from people I am actually romantically involved with. When I found out, usually through some dramatic "I can't talk to you anymore" scene, it made me angry and I felt used, that someone was pretending to be my friend and to genuinely care about me when all they wanted was to get into my pants. And more, that they felt entitled to sex, that I was leading them on by being nice to them or telling them personal things about myself, as one does with friends. Usually at this point it's become a point of discussion with mutual friends too and people are taking sides. Just because I was accepted what appeared to be a genuine offer of friendship.
posted by fshgrl at 11:50 AM on March 5, 2016 [15 favorites]
Hang out with them in groups, with just you and them it's too easy for it to turn into a pseudo date. I was at a bar with a lady friend on just such an occasion and knew the bartender, on my next visit he asked how my date went, to which I had to say it wasn't a date and in fact had had a chat about that after hanging out.
posted by TheAdamist at 12:21 PM on March 5, 2016
posted by TheAdamist at 12:21 PM on March 5, 2016
1. I (male) have female friends I talk to / text / message every day. I think this is normal. 2. I am friends with several people I "sort of have feelings for." I think this is normal too. Sometimes you meet someone and fall for them a bit and they don't feel the same way, but you still want to be friends. It's really up to you how possible that is. 3. I would say yes. It might not be an easy conversation, but I have had it several times, from both sides, and I prefer to know what's going on and talk about it.
All that said, I kind of agree with the first two posters as well. If he knows you feel this way, and just likes the attention, that's not a nice thing. It doesn't mean he is intentionally misleading you, but it might mean you would benefit from taking some more time to figure out if the friends relationship with this person is actually a positive thing in your life.
posted by Nothing at 12:22 PM on March 5, 2016 [2 favorites]
All that said, I kind of agree with the first two posters as well. If he knows you feel this way, and just likes the attention, that's not a nice thing. It doesn't mean he is intentionally misleading you, but it might mean you would benefit from taking some more time to figure out if the friends relationship with this person is actually a positive thing in your life.
posted by Nothing at 12:22 PM on March 5, 2016 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Thanks! I don't think he's leading me on. If anything, I think he genuinly likes me and wants to be my friend. But he does behave kinda boyfriend-like now and then. Whether he's aware of it or not...I think the latter.
Never been in this kind of situation before. Normally I date guys or I walk away. This feels so different. I really like having him in my life.
it's just hard when you have some feelings stuffed down there and the connection you have feels a little to good for being in the 'just friends' category. That justs makes me sad sometimes, knowing that we could never discover something else.
But you guys are right, I need open this conversation. Maybe I will try what jessamyn suggested. That sounds good. Appreciate the input!
posted by flowy at 12:36 PM on March 5, 2016
Never been in this kind of situation before. Normally I date guys or I walk away. This feels so different. I really like having him in my life.
it's just hard when you have some feelings stuffed down there and the connection you have feels a little to good for being in the 'just friends' category. That justs makes me sad sometimes, knowing that we could never discover something else.
But you guys are right, I need open this conversation. Maybe I will try what jessamyn suggested. That sounds good. Appreciate the input!
posted by flowy at 12:36 PM on March 5, 2016
2. I've been through this, and it's only going to work if you really and truly give up on dating him. This means you don't look for subtext. You don't make guesses about what he "really" thinks. You assume his "flirtation" is friendliness. You do things with him because you want to and don't get into weird games where you cancel because you can't accept that he just wants to be friends while you are hoping for something else. I had a relationship like this. Once I gave up all hope that it would ever be anything else, it turned into a nice friendship that I value for its own sake. Once in a while, I still find myself wishing it could be something more, but I know it's not going to happen. That's really the only way to have peace.
If you cannot give up hope that it will turn into something else, then, for your own sake, I suggest you tell him that and end it. "I know you don't want to be more than friends, but I can't get past hoping for something else, and I think it's better for me if we don't hang out anymore." No drama. No blaming (he can't make himself have other feelings for you). Just the simple truth.
posted by FencingGal at 12:38 PM on March 5, 2016 [7 favorites]
If you cannot give up hope that it will turn into something else, then, for your own sake, I suggest you tell him that and end it. "I know you don't want to be more than friends, but I can't get past hoping for something else, and I think it's better for me if we don't hang out anymore." No drama. No blaming (he can't make himself have other feelings for you). Just the simple truth.
posted by FencingGal at 12:38 PM on March 5, 2016 [7 favorites]
He likely fears being close while desiring it at the same time. It isn"t you.
posted by Ironmouth at 12:59 PM on March 5, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Ironmouth at 12:59 PM on March 5, 2016 [2 favorites]
This sounds very similar to what happened with one of my exes---a very nice, shy guy; we tried dating but then he decided he wasn't into it; we stayed friends but I felt like I kept getting mixed signals; I eventually got frustrated and pulled back, at which point he stepped up the contact... In my case, we did (eventually) try dating again, which ended, predictably, because he once again stopped feeling it after about a month. I can't say for sure, obviously, whether your guy is the same, but it does sound like you might be on a similar path. I think sister nunchaku probably has it right---your guy likes the attention and the ego boost, and he wants that to continue, even if he doesn't want an actual relationship.
Re: your reply, I think he probably does like you and values your friendship! But I *also* think he is leading you on. I mean, I don't think he sits down and thinks to himself, "Gee, it's really nice having flowy around to stroke my ego, I'd better throw her a bone now and then to keep her stringing along." But he gets a rush from flirting* with you, and so it's very easy for him to convince himself that (like jessamyn says), Hey, you've both already agreed you're just friends, right, so obv it must be *totally cool* for him to keep dangling a carrot in front of you with his texts and such, right? But it's not OK, because he's not taking *your* feelings into account. If he was, he would be honest with you, so that you don't have to stay in this painful "does he like me or not" limbo.
From your last paragraph, it sounds like you probably already have a good sense of your options for moving forward, even if neither of them is exactly what you'd like. :) You can stay friends with him, as you've said, and continue to flirt and so on, but just realize while you do so that it will never be more than that. Or tell him explicitly how you feel, and make it clear that you need to know how *he* feels, but be prepared for disappointment. Just remember, you're an awesome person and you deserve to have someone who appreciates that and is unequivocally delighted to be in a relationship with you. Good luck!
* and unless he was raised by robots and is thus entirely unaware of human social conventions, I would bet good money that he IS aware that he's flirting, and that he DOES know that texting every day and biweekly one-on-one meetups are fully in the realm of more-than-just friends territory
posted by pittcatt at 1:39 PM on March 5, 2016 [1 favorite]
Re: your reply, I think he probably does like you and values your friendship! But I *also* think he is leading you on. I mean, I don't think he sits down and thinks to himself, "Gee, it's really nice having flowy around to stroke my ego, I'd better throw her a bone now and then to keep her stringing along." But he gets a rush from flirting* with you, and so it's very easy for him to convince himself that (like jessamyn says), Hey, you've both already agreed you're just friends, right, so obv it must be *totally cool* for him to keep dangling a carrot in front of you with his texts and such, right? But it's not OK, because he's not taking *your* feelings into account. If he was, he would be honest with you, so that you don't have to stay in this painful "does he like me or not" limbo.
From your last paragraph, it sounds like you probably already have a good sense of your options for moving forward, even if neither of them is exactly what you'd like. :) You can stay friends with him, as you've said, and continue to flirt and so on, but just realize while you do so that it will never be more than that. Or tell him explicitly how you feel, and make it clear that you need to know how *he* feels, but be prepared for disappointment. Just remember, you're an awesome person and you deserve to have someone who appreciates that and is unequivocally delighted to be in a relationship with you. Good luck!
* and unless he was raised by robots and is thus entirely unaware of human social conventions, I would bet good money that he IS aware that he's flirting, and that he DOES know that texting every day and biweekly one-on-one meetups are fully in the realm of more-than-just friends territory
posted by pittcatt at 1:39 PM on March 5, 2016 [1 favorite]
I've only recently broken completely free from a similar situation. Mine is bit more complicated but my short answer to this quandary is to cut it off completely. It is not healthy for you and obviously he is not taking your feelings into consideration. He knows the way you feel about him and he is probably using it to stroke his ego. Let it go.
posted by Whatifyoufly at 2:51 PM on March 5, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Whatifyoufly at 2:51 PM on March 5, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yes, of course you can be friends with a guy and vice-versa. But not if you have feelings for them. It's too hard! Don't put yourself through that. You are ripe for love and he's slowing you down. There's a guy out there who is waiting for you to find him, put your energies elsewhere.
I had a guy like your guy once and I just had to cut him out. I think he had feelings for me but I wasn't the right kind of girl for him (in his mind). After a hanging-out thing, I laid it out for him, "Look, I'm interested in you and I feel like you are interested in me, too. What do you think? Could this go somewhere?" He hemmed and hawed and gave me some line and I sucked it up like a big girl. Went home, cried a little, and then mentally moved on. He wanted to "be friends" and a couple times he acted like some jealous guy about other guys I was dating but you have to walk away from that. So, if you want, be honest one more time. Don't blow up! That's not fair. But then, mentally, give him a big hug and wave bye-bye.
I have had many true male friends over the years and believe that these can be incredibly rich and rewarding friendships. I don't think you're there with this guy.
posted by amanda at 3:05 PM on March 5, 2016 [1 favorite]
I had a guy like your guy once and I just had to cut him out. I think he had feelings for me but I wasn't the right kind of girl for him (in his mind). After a hanging-out thing, I laid it out for him, "Look, I'm interested in you and I feel like you are interested in me, too. What do you think? Could this go somewhere?" He hemmed and hawed and gave me some line and I sucked it up like a big girl. Went home, cried a little, and then mentally moved on. He wanted to "be friends" and a couple times he acted like some jealous guy about other guys I was dating but you have to walk away from that. So, if you want, be honest one more time. Don't blow up! That's not fair. But then, mentally, give him a big hug and wave bye-bye.
I have had many true male friends over the years and believe that these can be incredibly rich and rewarding friendships. I don't think you're there with this guy.
posted by amanda at 3:05 PM on March 5, 2016 [1 favorite]
I don't think he has insight into this or is doing it malignantly, but it sounds like he's using you emotionally. He's got you to flirt with and have a pseudo relationship with but he doesn't have to do any of the hard parts of having a relationship, and he's free to go play the field until he finds someone he actually wants to commit to. I'm sorry because I know you're holding a candle for him but you've got to let it go. Even if he did change his mind and decide now he is willing to date you, you deserve better than someone who would treat you like this. Find a man who's thrilled about you from day 1.
posted by treehorn+bunny at 10:15 PM on March 5, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by treehorn+bunny at 10:15 PM on March 5, 2016 [1 favorite]
Don't try to psychoanalyze him to determine what his motivations are for acting the way he does. That way lies madness. The fact that you want more and he's not willing to give it is enough for you to walk away. You deserve both real friends and a guy who's really into you. This guy is neither.
posted by mysterious_stranger at 12:11 AM on March 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by mysterious_stranger at 12:11 AM on March 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
I think Jessamyn and and pittcat have said it better already, but one thing:
I don't think you can be friends right now because I don't feel you're over it yet. You say you are, but you're reading things into his behavior and have all these 'what ifs?' bouncing around your head. You really need to step back to the point where you can just be friends, and don't read into what he does at all, and see him completely as friends. It may help to date a bit. You can always revisit the friendship later.
I agree he's sending somewhat mixed signals. It's very telling to me that he ups contact when you lessen contact. My friends don't do this, because they know we're friends and I'll contact them when I can. They don't need to fight to get my attention back. People that do that want something from you-- usually to be validated through your attention. Beyond checking if you're ok, he shouldn't start trying to reach out more if you reach out less. It's especially telling if his most flattering and flirty messages are given in these circumstances (as was the case when I was a similar situation).
As others said, it doesn't mean he's doing it on purpose, and he may not even be aware of it. I also doubt he's doing it a lot-- seems he's tried to be pretty clear and is flirting less. But it's an easy trap to fall into as being wanted feels good. I feel like a good rule of thumb for mixed-gender (both hetero) friendships is to flip the context of what they tell you or what compliments they give you. If it's not something that he could say to a male friend of his, then he's probably sending you mixed messages, and treating you differently because of gender. If his statements could easily be said to his male friends, he's probably just being friendly. For example; "Sorry your date didn't work out, they suck and you're awesome," is a statement that would work for both you and a guy friend. But; "Sorry your date didn't work out, sounds like he sucks. I'd never do that. I mean, if it were me I would treat you great because you're awesome and that's what you deserve," is problematic. Flirting at all, is problematic in mixed-gender friendships, unless both parties are okay with it and it's part of the dynamic (which does happen).
People have a point when they say the friend zone doesn't exist-- that being nice to someone doesn't mean you're 'owed' anything, and that sometimes people read into things that aren't there. However, there's also something to be said of being lead on; it does happen. It's happened to me, and I have thousands of letters of 'proof' of it and then actual eyewitness accounts of his behavior around me. But it's important to be able to tell the difference, and in either eventuality, it's not bad to say "Look, I can't be your friend because of reasons and I'm reading into stuff that isn't there, so I gotta go until I'm ok with it," and protect yourself. If someone gets angry at you for that, then they're not really your friend either, anyway.
posted by Dimes at 2:42 AM on March 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
I don't think you can be friends right now because I don't feel you're over it yet. You say you are, but you're reading things into his behavior and have all these 'what ifs?' bouncing around your head. You really need to step back to the point where you can just be friends, and don't read into what he does at all, and see him completely as friends. It may help to date a bit. You can always revisit the friendship later.
I agree he's sending somewhat mixed signals. It's very telling to me that he ups contact when you lessen contact. My friends don't do this, because they know we're friends and I'll contact them when I can. They don't need to fight to get my attention back. People that do that want something from you-- usually to be validated through your attention. Beyond checking if you're ok, he shouldn't start trying to reach out more if you reach out less. It's especially telling if his most flattering and flirty messages are given in these circumstances (as was the case when I was a similar situation).
As others said, it doesn't mean he's doing it on purpose, and he may not even be aware of it. I also doubt he's doing it a lot-- seems he's tried to be pretty clear and is flirting less. But it's an easy trap to fall into as being wanted feels good. I feel like a good rule of thumb for mixed-gender (both hetero) friendships is to flip the context of what they tell you or what compliments they give you. If it's not something that he could say to a male friend of his, then he's probably sending you mixed messages, and treating you differently because of gender. If his statements could easily be said to his male friends, he's probably just being friendly. For example; "Sorry your date didn't work out, they suck and you're awesome," is a statement that would work for both you and a guy friend. But; "Sorry your date didn't work out, sounds like he sucks. I'd never do that. I mean, if it were me I would treat you great because you're awesome and that's what you deserve," is problematic. Flirting at all, is problematic in mixed-gender friendships, unless both parties are okay with it and it's part of the dynamic (which does happen).
People have a point when they say the friend zone doesn't exist-- that being nice to someone doesn't mean you're 'owed' anything, and that sometimes people read into things that aren't there. However, there's also something to be said of being lead on; it does happen. It's happened to me, and I have thousands of letters of 'proof' of it and then actual eyewitness accounts of his behavior around me. But it's important to be able to tell the difference, and in either eventuality, it's not bad to say "Look, I can't be your friend because of reasons and I'm reading into stuff that isn't there, so I gotta go until I'm ok with it," and protect yourself. If someone gets angry at you for that, then they're not really your friend either, anyway.
posted by Dimes at 2:42 AM on March 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
If I were you I would fade him out and go no contact.
He may or may not be an OK guy. Maybe he's using you cruelly, maybe he's just blundering about. (He sounds relatively harmless to me.) But that's not the point. The point is that this relationship, however you may like to describe it - friendship, quasi-dating, whatever - is causing you distress, and presumably that's nothing you need.
There are plenty of other people out there. Take some time for your feelings for this guy to die down and review all the many other options you have. And if in six months or a year's time you're still stuck on him, well hey, just ask him out. Worst he can say is "no" all over again.
posted by Pechorin at 6:14 AM on March 7, 2016
He may or may not be an OK guy. Maybe he's using you cruelly, maybe he's just blundering about. (He sounds relatively harmless to me.) But that's not the point. The point is that this relationship, however you may like to describe it - friendship, quasi-dating, whatever - is causing you distress, and presumably that's nothing you need.
There are plenty of other people out there. Take some time for your feelings for this guy to die down and review all the many other options you have. And if in six months or a year's time you're still stuck on him, well hey, just ask him out. Worst he can say is "no" all over again.
posted by Pechorin at 6:14 AM on March 7, 2016
This thread is closed to new comments.
You are still wondering why you can't be together even though he was not into it, so you aren't in a position to be friends with him. Do you secretly hope he will see how great your friendship is and eventually want more from you? It is highly unlikely that this will ever happen. He gets an ego boost from being around you and soaking up your positive regard for him, whereas you are sad and wistful and wanting more from him.
You also seem to blame yourself for how things went the last time. You aren't to blame. He just didn't feel it, as you said. And you were sad and frustrated and let him know. I don't think you could have changed the outcome if your behavior had been less dramatic or if you had been in a better mindspace at the time.
In the meantime, if other guys see you with him they will think you are not single and it will take longer to meet the guy who is into you as much as you are into him. He won't act like your "friend," here, trust me.
I think you have to make a clean break with your guy friend. I know it makes you sad. But it is not a healthy situation for you. The longer you stay, the sadder you will be. You deserve better.
Take care.
posted by sister nunchaku of love and mercy at 11:31 AM on March 5, 2016 [14 favorites]