moving is the worst
January 19, 2016 10:50 AM Subscribe
Have you moved abroad (or even to a new city) and then moved back? How did you deal with your feelings about that?
I moved from a pretty cool city in the U.S. to a pretty cool city in a different country for a job in summer 2015. It was a good idea at the time that I was making that decision, but I realized pretty quickly that it wasn't the best move for both professional and personal reasons. My job, while it would be great for someone else, isn't the best fit for me. And personally, I like being engaged with my community and in new city that isn't really a thing I can do with regard to issues I care about.
There's a 90% chance that I'm going to move back this summer. I know it is the right decision for me to move back. I'd rather have my adventures with close friends, than try to build adventures from scratch. I would rather pursue work that is meaningful to me than have a fantastic job on paper. But on the other hand I feel like I'm failing for not succeeding at living in this new place longterm, and am moving backwards rather than forwards.
If you've done this, how have you justified this action to both yourself and to others?
(possibly but not necessarily relevant details: I'm single, free of debt, vaguely successful in my field, in my late-20s)
I moved from a pretty cool city in the U.S. to a pretty cool city in a different country for a job in summer 2015. It was a good idea at the time that I was making that decision, but I realized pretty quickly that it wasn't the best move for both professional and personal reasons. My job, while it would be great for someone else, isn't the best fit for me. And personally, I like being engaged with my community and in new city that isn't really a thing I can do with regard to issues I care about.
There's a 90% chance that I'm going to move back this summer. I know it is the right decision for me to move back. I'd rather have my adventures with close friends, than try to build adventures from scratch. I would rather pursue work that is meaningful to me than have a fantastic job on paper. But on the other hand I feel like I'm failing for not succeeding at living in this new place longterm, and am moving backwards rather than forwards.
If you've done this, how have you justified this action to both yourself and to others?
(possibly but not necessarily relevant details: I'm single, free of debt, vaguely successful in my field, in my late-20s)
Best answer: I'm in the middle of a similar struggle. I moved for work and I absolutely hate my new city. My job is very demanding and I have very little time to make friends. Home is the place that I left. People keep saying that it takes a year to adjust, so I plan to wait at least another six months to see if things change. But in the meantime I am searching for jobs back home, as time permits. And I visit frequently, which sort of helps and sort of doesn't because it amplifies the homesickness. But it also restores me and helps lift the depressive cloud that has fallen on me ever since I moved.
And to all outsiders I am living the dream: I have an amazing job (on paper). I am successful. I am debt free and I make good money. But I want a life, you know? At what cost does this "success" come? I want to want to get out of bed every day. That matters far more than how people will think about my choices.
I don't think I have to justify this to anyone but myself. And really I see it as moving sideways, not as moving backwards. It's a lateral move: I tried this, don't like it, and I have one life and I don't want to spend it doing things that look good on paper but that are in reality just misery.
You've got one life. Don't use it doing things that don't have meaning to you.
posted by sockermom at 11:07 AM on January 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
And to all outsiders I am living the dream: I have an amazing job (on paper). I am successful. I am debt free and I make good money. But I want a life, you know? At what cost does this "success" come? I want to want to get out of bed every day. That matters far more than how people will think about my choices.
I don't think I have to justify this to anyone but myself. And really I see it as moving sideways, not as moving backwards. It's a lateral move: I tried this, don't like it, and I have one life and I don't want to spend it doing things that look good on paper but that are in reality just misery.
You've got one life. Don't use it doing things that don't have meaning to you.
posted by sockermom at 11:07 AM on January 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I've been in your shoes at roughly the same time in my life. (I'm in my late 30s now.)
You don't need to justify your decision to others. But fortunately the same rationale that can make it work in your mind should work well for others who ask.
Making a move like you did involves a series of tradeoffs. There are opportunities that you'll miss being abroad that you would have had staying at home and vice-versa. In my mind, you move when the balance shifts unfavourably. In my case, I gave things up leaving Chicago for Buenos Aires, but I had some amazing experiences in Buenos Aires that I couldn't have had any other way. At some point, I realized that I was approaching the point where I was giving up more by living outside the U.S. and I decided to move back. Some people reach this point quickly and some never do.
But if you're lucky enough to be able to choose where you want to live, you want to maximize the upside and minimize the downside. It sounds like your downsides are outweighing your upsides. So, go back.
posted by veggieboy at 11:08 AM on January 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
You don't need to justify your decision to others. But fortunately the same rationale that can make it work in your mind should work well for others who ask.
Making a move like you did involves a series of tradeoffs. There are opportunities that you'll miss being abroad that you would have had staying at home and vice-versa. In my mind, you move when the balance shifts unfavourably. In my case, I gave things up leaving Chicago for Buenos Aires, but I had some amazing experiences in Buenos Aires that I couldn't have had any other way. At some point, I realized that I was approaching the point where I was giving up more by living outside the U.S. and I decided to move back. Some people reach this point quickly and some never do.
But if you're lucky enough to be able to choose where you want to live, you want to maximize the upside and minimize the downside. It sounds like your downsides are outweighing your upsides. So, go back.
posted by veggieboy at 11:08 AM on January 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Honestly this part from your question:
I'd rather have my adventures with close friends, than try to build adventures from scratch. I would rather pursue work that is meaningful to me than have a fantastic job on paper.
Seems like a succinct and very relatable explanation for your decision. I would try to avoid framing this even just mentally as something that you need to justify. If people ask you about this, just say something along the lines of what I quoted here, and if they push or seem judge-y, then they're probably being busybodies or maybe they have their own insecurities or whatever.
Another additional framing that you could add is something along the lines of, "It was great to experience living in working in a different country, and I'm really glad I had that opportunity, but it also helped me clarify my own priorities, hence moving back to old city."
Truly, it sounds like you're in a stable, good place in your life, and as someone who is in your age cohort, I feel like you're in a much better place than a lot of your mid to late twenties peers. There's always someone who will judge you for anything and everything, but you can't really do anything about that, so don't worry about catering your response to that person. For most people, at most they'll just be curious about the reasons for your decision, or maybe they'll just be idly making conversation, and so they should be easily satisfied with some version of this short explanation.
posted by litera scripta manet at 11:12 AM on January 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'd rather have my adventures with close friends, than try to build adventures from scratch. I would rather pursue work that is meaningful to me than have a fantastic job on paper.
Seems like a succinct and very relatable explanation for your decision. I would try to avoid framing this even just mentally as something that you need to justify. If people ask you about this, just say something along the lines of what I quoted here, and if they push or seem judge-y, then they're probably being busybodies or maybe they have their own insecurities or whatever.
Another additional framing that you could add is something along the lines of, "It was great to experience living in working in a different country, and I'm really glad I had that opportunity, but it also helped me clarify my own priorities, hence moving back to old city."
Truly, it sounds like you're in a stable, good place in your life, and as someone who is in your age cohort, I feel like you're in a much better place than a lot of your mid to late twenties peers. There's always someone who will judge you for anything and everything, but you can't really do anything about that, so don't worry about catering your response to that person. For most people, at most they'll just be curious about the reasons for your decision, or maybe they'll just be idly making conversation, and so they should be easily satisfied with some version of this short explanation.
posted by litera scripta manet at 11:12 AM on January 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
After a messy marriage break up I moved very impulsively from NYC to San Francisco. I spent a lot of money doing it and after 3 months of desperately missing 'home' I moved back. I didn't know what I had til it was gone. The friends I made in SF were sad I was leaving and my friends in NYC were incredibly excited I was coming back. Not many people asked, the people I was really close with did and had nothing snarky to say. What you did was brave and admitting it's not right for you and moving back is brave. You have identified what is right for you and you're making the steps to make yourself happy. Be proud of yourself.
Good luck!
posted by shesbenevolent at 11:48 AM on January 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
Good luck!
posted by shesbenevolent at 11:48 AM on January 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
Lots of people our age move home to be closer to family because they're anticipating having kids in the near future. Kids are a lot easier with grandparents who babysit nearby. Lots of people also have to sacrifice "dream go-getter jobs" for kids.
If you want kids in the next 5-ish years, that's a good enough excuse and certainly one that people will accept without that little implied "I failed" you're trying to escape, I think.
posted by quincunx at 11:49 AM on January 19, 2016
If you want kids in the next 5-ish years, that's a good enough excuse and certainly one that people will accept without that little implied "I failed" you're trying to escape, I think.
posted by quincunx at 11:49 AM on January 19, 2016
I feel like I'm failing for not succeeding at living in this new place longterm
Ah. You would be failing by not seeing that it isn't working, and thus failing by NOT moving back.
My wife and I went through the same thing. We thought we failed at first for not living out a 5-year commitment in a new city. We moved back to old city after just 1 of the 5 years. It took a few years to realize it post-return, but we realized that we passed the test by moving back (and have stayed put ever since).
posted by TinWhistle at 12:33 PM on January 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
Ah. You would be failing by not seeing that it isn't working, and thus failing by NOT moving back.
My wife and I went through the same thing. We thought we failed at first for not living out a 5-year commitment in a new city. We moved back to old city after just 1 of the 5 years. It took a few years to realize it post-return, but we realized that we passed the test by moving back (and have stayed put ever since).
posted by TinWhistle at 12:33 PM on January 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
I moved to St. Louis to accompany my then-girlfriend when she started grad school a few years ago (I was 30 at the time). I wasn't really thrilled about going, as all my friends, family, etc. were in Ohio, but I went anyway, and I immediately hated it. I thought about moving back all the time, and then we broke up, so I did. I never regretted that. I've never once felt like I failed in St. Louis. If there was any failure, it was in not thinking more clearly about going in the first place. I knew it was a mistake, but I went ahead anyway.
Most of my friends advised me not to go, so there wasn't much need to justify coming back. Most of them expected I would.
If you're worried about justifying it to others, though, could you maybe say that you only planned to stay a year?
posted by kevinbelt at 1:39 PM on January 19, 2016
Most of my friends advised me not to go, so there wasn't much need to justify coming back. Most of them expected I would.
If you're worried about justifying it to others, though, could you maybe say that you only planned to stay a year?
posted by kevinbelt at 1:39 PM on January 19, 2016
Not every move and not every decision works out. My family and I moved to Europe and stayed there for eight years out of stubbornness. That was a bad idea. If it's not working, and you need to go back to the place that feels like home, that is the right decision and nothing to feel bad about. Why invest more time and suffering on something that looks good on paper to other people and feels bad to you?
posted by Bella Donna at 2:27 PM on January 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Bella Donna at 2:27 PM on January 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
You move back as a person with different experiences and a wider perspective than you had as the person who left in the first place. How do you know if the home place is good or bad if you haven't compared it to anywhere else? I moved from Rochester/Buffalo to Southern California, which on paper seems like a no-brainer in any conceivable comparison. But there were enough reasons to move back east when it came to house-buying time, and I wouldn't have appreciated my preferences without living in CA in the first place. We were balancing stuff like, what sort of areas we could afford if we wanted a couple acres, and how I never can remember what time of year an event happened because the weather isn't much variable, and how much worse sinus headaches were because the dryness of the air. It's enough to just live in a place that suits you if you can, no matter the cachet or significance to anyone who isn't you. It's not a pass/fail. Happy/unhappy is the pass/fail.
We live in MA now, not WNY, but I still count it as 'back.' Even if I moved back to Buffalo, I'd have different patterns of living than I had before. It'd be a place with familiar landmarks, but my experience of it would be new. Certainly someone with different family or social dynamics might be susceptible to falling into old roles and patterns, so that's something to consider.
posted by Lou Stuells at 2:33 PM on January 19, 2016
We live in MA now, not WNY, but I still count it as 'back.' Even if I moved back to Buffalo, I'd have different patterns of living than I had before. It'd be a place with familiar landmarks, but my experience of it would be new. Certainly someone with different family or social dynamics might be susceptible to falling into old roles and patterns, so that's something to consider.
posted by Lou Stuells at 2:33 PM on January 19, 2016
I don't think you need to justify it to others at all. "It was a fabulous experience but time to come back" should suffice if anyone asks.
As far as justifying it to yourself: my perspective is that of someone who grew up in a country with a strong tradition of going abroad for "working holidays". Usually the visas were for two years so people go with the intention of staying that long but some realise that while they enjoy the travelling part, working in a crummy job through a european winter (when they know everyone back home is at the beach) is really tough and they are back after a few months. Others go for 2 years and stay for ever. I've never known anyone to get grief over their choices (though there is a sense of 'wasting' the visa if you don't use the full allowable duration, people acknowledge that at least they gave it a go).
You aren't going backwards by returning to your home town. You'll have grown immeasurably during your year away. If right now you want to be back where things are familiar then that's great - do it. You can always go again later, or go somewhere else. The only people that will give you grief are ones that never go anywhere. People who have lived abroad will understand that the life of an expat can be lonely and tough, that it's a great experience but also great to be amongst the familiar. Just be prepared for feelings of flatness or letdown hitting a few weeks after you return. I tend to be 'yay, I'm home!' followed by 'oh FFS, I'm home :-(' and then significant blahs for ages. But I'm prone to depression, YMMV. It doesn't last forever even for me, after awhile I settle back in because, after all, familiarity is comforting. I'd suggest planning some things to look forward to after your return though. Maybe a road trip with friends, a weekend away, something for the adjustment period.
You are absolutely not failiing - free of debt, successful professionally, lived abroad - you're awesome!
posted by kitten magic at 2:49 PM on January 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
As far as justifying it to yourself: my perspective is that of someone who grew up in a country with a strong tradition of going abroad for "working holidays". Usually the visas were for two years so people go with the intention of staying that long but some realise that while they enjoy the travelling part, working in a crummy job through a european winter (when they know everyone back home is at the beach) is really tough and they are back after a few months. Others go for 2 years and stay for ever. I've never known anyone to get grief over their choices (though there is a sense of 'wasting' the visa if you don't use the full allowable duration, people acknowledge that at least they gave it a go).
You aren't going backwards by returning to your home town. You'll have grown immeasurably during your year away. If right now you want to be back where things are familiar then that's great - do it. You can always go again later, or go somewhere else. The only people that will give you grief are ones that never go anywhere. People who have lived abroad will understand that the life of an expat can be lonely and tough, that it's a great experience but also great to be amongst the familiar. Just be prepared for feelings of flatness or letdown hitting a few weeks after you return. I tend to be 'yay, I'm home!' followed by 'oh FFS, I'm home :-(' and then significant blahs for ages. But I'm prone to depression, YMMV. It doesn't last forever even for me, after awhile I settle back in because, after all, familiarity is comforting. I'd suggest planning some things to look forward to after your return though. Maybe a road trip with friends, a weekend away, something for the adjustment period.
You are absolutely not failiing - free of debt, successful professionally, lived abroad - you're awesome!
posted by kitten magic at 2:49 PM on January 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I did this about 10 years ago. I moved someplace and ended up leaving after a year and coming back.
At first, I was really uncomfortable because I looked at it as some sort of failing on my part. I thought I had made a well-thought out decision, and it bothered me how wrong I was. I was embarrassed to tell people I was back.
And then I changed how I framed it. I started telling people that I'd had an opportunity to try something, and it hadn't worked. No big deal. More importantly, I also started thinking that way, too.
And you know what? When I changed how I talked about it, people responded by being impressed with me. It's good to try things, right? Now, I'll even tell anecdotes about the area, and when people ask me how I know, I mention I used to live there. It's just a thing, and it makes me that much more interesting.
posted by AMyNameIs at 3:08 PM on January 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
At first, I was really uncomfortable because I looked at it as some sort of failing on my part. I thought I had made a well-thought out decision, and it bothered me how wrong I was. I was embarrassed to tell people I was back.
And then I changed how I framed it. I started telling people that I'd had an opportunity to try something, and it hadn't worked. No big deal. More importantly, I also started thinking that way, too.
And you know what? When I changed how I talked about it, people responded by being impressed with me. It's good to try things, right? Now, I'll even tell anecdotes about the area, and when people ask me how I know, I mention I used to live there. It's just a thing, and it makes me that much more interesting.
posted by AMyNameIs at 3:08 PM on January 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
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Comfort Zone
Can't really say it better than that. When leaving the city where I was born/lived for 23 years for a new city 500 miles away, I felt quite displaced during the first year. People in new city were different. The awesome six month edge of parks, museums, coffee shops, and sights ended. And then it was new same old. Life started settling, without the exciting newness, and without the depth of comfort and familiar of the old.
On a trip home, this came up in discussion with a friend who had moved from Florida to the west coast 10+ years prior. He laughed a big laugh, as he was wont do to about questions involving "life".
It's quite common in London that people in corporates will come over for two year stints abroad. Foreign experience, etc. You can tell those people, because they live dualistic lives, half of working extremely hard because time is limited. The other half is an extended vacation. They find a neighbourhood they like, and embrace it. They come to it know the surface of it – as much as one can learn in two years. They visit European cities. The fabric that they integrate into is that of the firm – not the city. For the firm is their host, and why are they going to build those friends that take years, if they know they'll be returning to their old lives eventually.
Thus, that has often made me think that it's not only about the location and the time, but also intention and openness. I'll answer a few of your questions directly, and then close up.
I realized pretty quickly that it wasn't the best move for both professional and personal reasons.
Yet. You haven't been there long enough to make a decision about where you are. What you can make a decision about is where you are versus where you were. That depends on the criteria you use. If it's a bad fit, it's a bad fit. My point is that you don't know if it's a bad fit yet – you know it's a different fit. Hence the diagram above!
My job, while it would be great for someone else, isn't the best fit for me.
Yet. It's still a new job. How do you know you won't feel like that back home?
And personally, I like being engaged with my community and in new city that isn't really a thing I can do with regard to issues I care about.
Yet. You've just arrived!
There's a 90% chance that I'm going to move back this summer. I know it is the right decision for me to move back.
It looks like you're quite uncomfortable and looking for certainty. Putting figures on the probability. Saying that you know it's right, when you asked the question above. It almost sounds like you are looking for a guarantee from someone here 1) that if you go back, you won't miss out on superamazingtransformativepersonalexperience and/or 2) that back is still back.
I'd rather have my adventures with close friends, than try to build adventures from scratch. I would rather pursue work that is meaningful to me than have a fantastic job on paper. But on the other hand I feel like I'm failing for not succeeding at living in this new place longterm, and am moving backwards rather than forwards.
There we go. The adventures that you have with close friends will be the adventures that you have with those friends. The adventures that you have with new friends will be the adventures that you have with those new friends. It reminds me of Think Fast, Think Slow, when he's talking about how many people go on holiday for the memories and photos. That actually, they're not absorbed in the moment at all, rather they are generating content so that when they are back in their normal lives, they can look at the photo and say "look at that time I went there." Are you doing that here?
Because I'll tell you this. You have NO IDEA what is going to happen when you make a move. It takes years to make those friendships and build a life. In between is a very liminal state.
It is that state that I want to end on, because it's truly amazing and transformative. Here's what I believe. That when go somewhere new, you experience two sides to your personality in a direct manner.
Identity
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Context
Then you move, and some things go with you and something do not. Identity bits do, contextual bits do not. For a more concrete example, think about a good friend that you share three activities with. One is running. Two is going to shows. Three is brunch on Sunday evenings at a favourite diner. Four is cinema. Now, let's say you move away to a new city, as you have.
You run and go to the cinema, but actually you're not really bothered with brunch or going to shows. When you go back home, you find that your friend also runs and goes to shows, but he's stopped going to brunch and the cinema.
So you've taken two pieces of identity with you, and left two behind. Now, in the new city, you pick up an interest in fashion and cooking. Back home, your friend picks up art galleries and mountain biking.
Now, when you go back, it looks something like this:
You: Running, cinema, fashion, cooking
Friend: Running, shows, art galleries, mountain biking
Neither of you are the same person. You are 50% the same person and he is 50% the same person, but they're not the same 50%. You're now 25% similar, as opposed to 100%. Because you changed context.
Now, for arguments sake, let's say you move again. This time, you keep running, cinema, and cooking. You drop fashion and replace it with weekends at a cabin in the countryside.
The difference continues to compound, for places shape personality... and conversely personalities shape places. Right now, you have some pieces of your identity that are the same – those things that you recognise about yourself. But what came from the context is now gone, and you're feeling the burn of that absence – your personality is starting to change because you have a different context around you.
I'm not going to tell you what you should do – that's for you to decide. I'm only going to say that you cannot experience the change without making the change. You don't know what life will be like in two, three, five years if you stay. You don't know who you will become, and you don't know what your values will be. You don't know what life experiences you will have, firstly because you don't know the context, secondly because you don't know what part of your own identity from the previous place was contextual.
If you want to know yourself better, the only way to do that is to stay out of the comfort zone as long as possible, and gradually become a different person.
That gets to the crux of why I think people have trouble moving. I first noticed this in Los Angeles. Paradoxically, the people that LOVED IT HERE I WAS BORN TO BE HERE OMG for the first six months, had the highest rates of moving home. The people that hate it, how do people live here. The traffic. The prices. The people. Hate it. are still there ten years later. I never did figure that one out, and it seemed to have happened more there than anywhere else.
But what I think is going on there is that when you arrive somewhere, the first comparison that you make is 1) what is this compared to what I thought it was going to be? Once you have enough information to determine if its what you thought it would be, 2) is then what is this compared to what I had before? Those two happen quickly – within in the first six months to a year. The 3) what is this really? is what takes years.
And it's all good. A lot of hinges on who you are, and what you want to do with your life. A big fat cost benefit. For many people, it's career-driven.
It would not be as satisfying to try and break into the Lisbon financial scene as the London financial scene. That being said, if your looking to be a chef, it may be easier to get started and rise in Lisbon than in London.
If you want to surf every day, Paris is not a great place for that. If you want lingering afternoons in the Tuscany countryside, Los Angeles is not an ideal place.
Really, this question comes down to where are you and what do you want? And it's a bipolar question. You cannot become a different person by going home. You will change to some degrees, but largely the context will continue rather than shift completely. Simultaneously, you will change into a different person by changing the context.
The question is really: do you want to know who else you can be, or not? If you would rather know, then you stay. If you're not really bothered, then go.
posted by nickrussell at 3:19 PM on January 19, 2016 [4 favorites]
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Comfort Zone
Can't really say it better than that. When leaving the city where I was born/lived for 23 years for a new city 500 miles away, I felt quite displaced during the first year. People in new city were different. The awesome six month edge of parks, museums, coffee shops, and sights ended. And then it was new same old. Life started settling, without the exciting newness, and without the depth of comfort and familiar of the old.
On a trip home, this came up in discussion with a friend who had moved from Florida to the west coast 10+ years prior. He laughed a big laugh, as he was wont do to about questions involving "life".
Sure, I have a great life today. Two jobs I love. A great apartment by the beach. Friends that are like family. Favourite places. Habits. All of that. I have a big life here. We're friends because we did the same things – cycling, clubbing, cooking. It wasn't like that when I arrived. When I arrived, I lived in a shared house with six other people and worked the first job that had me. The friends I met in the first six months, weren't the friends that I had a year later. Those weren't the friends that I had two years after that. It took me four or five years to find out where I wanted to live – where I truly fit – and then to move there. It took time to build those relationships. Holidays. Christmas's. Birthdays. Good times. Bad times. It took me about five years to build a life.Sage advice that I've seen play out over three cities now. It takes time – do you want to put in the time to build a life?
Do I ever long for Florida? Hell yes, because life was easy there. When I go back, I see the same people doing the same things that they were doing before. I'm a different person. Do you get that? A different person. And it takes time. I would have loved to move here and have the life I have today, but guess what, it doesn't work that way. It's going to take you years to build the life you want. Just because it does.
It's quite common in London that people in corporates will come over for two year stints abroad. Foreign experience, etc. You can tell those people, because they live dualistic lives, half of working extremely hard because time is limited. The other half is an extended vacation. They find a neighbourhood they like, and embrace it. They come to it know the surface of it – as much as one can learn in two years. They visit European cities. The fabric that they integrate into is that of the firm – not the city. For the firm is their host, and why are they going to build those friends that take years, if they know they'll be returning to their old lives eventually.
Thus, that has often made me think that it's not only about the location and the time, but also intention and openness. I'll answer a few of your questions directly, and then close up.
I realized pretty quickly that it wasn't the best move for both professional and personal reasons.
Yet. You haven't been there long enough to make a decision about where you are. What you can make a decision about is where you are versus where you were. That depends on the criteria you use. If it's a bad fit, it's a bad fit. My point is that you don't know if it's a bad fit yet – you know it's a different fit. Hence the diagram above!
My job, while it would be great for someone else, isn't the best fit for me.
Yet. It's still a new job. How do you know you won't feel like that back home?
And personally, I like being engaged with my community and in new city that isn't really a thing I can do with regard to issues I care about.
Yet. You've just arrived!
There's a 90% chance that I'm going to move back this summer. I know it is the right decision for me to move back.
It looks like you're quite uncomfortable and looking for certainty. Putting figures on the probability. Saying that you know it's right, when you asked the question above. It almost sounds like you are looking for a guarantee from someone here 1) that if you go back, you won't miss out on superamazingtransformativepersonalexperience and/or 2) that back is still back.
I'd rather have my adventures with close friends, than try to build adventures from scratch. I would rather pursue work that is meaningful to me than have a fantastic job on paper. But on the other hand I feel like I'm failing for not succeeding at living in this new place longterm, and am moving backwards rather than forwards.
There we go. The adventures that you have with close friends will be the adventures that you have with those friends. The adventures that you have with new friends will be the adventures that you have with those new friends. It reminds me of Think Fast, Think Slow, when he's talking about how many people go on holiday for the memories and photos. That actually, they're not absorbed in the moment at all, rather they are generating content so that when they are back in their normal lives, they can look at the photo and say "look at that time I went there." Are you doing that here?
Because I'll tell you this. You have NO IDEA what is going to happen when you make a move. It takes years to make those friendships and build a life. In between is a very liminal state.
It is that state that I want to end on, because it's truly amazing and transformative. Here's what I believe. That when go somewhere new, you experience two sides to your personality in a direct manner.
Identity
---------
Context
Then you move, and some things go with you and something do not. Identity bits do, contextual bits do not. For a more concrete example, think about a good friend that you share three activities with. One is running. Two is going to shows. Three is brunch on Sunday evenings at a favourite diner. Four is cinema. Now, let's say you move away to a new city, as you have.
You run and go to the cinema, but actually you're not really bothered with brunch or going to shows. When you go back home, you find that your friend also runs and goes to shows, but he's stopped going to brunch and the cinema.
So you've taken two pieces of identity with you, and left two behind. Now, in the new city, you pick up an interest in fashion and cooking. Back home, your friend picks up art galleries and mountain biking.
Now, when you go back, it looks something like this:
You: Running, cinema, fashion, cooking
Friend: Running, shows, art galleries, mountain biking
Neither of you are the same person. You are 50% the same person and he is 50% the same person, but they're not the same 50%. You're now 25% similar, as opposed to 100%. Because you changed context.
Now, for arguments sake, let's say you move again. This time, you keep running, cinema, and cooking. You drop fashion and replace it with weekends at a cabin in the countryside.
The difference continues to compound, for places shape personality... and conversely personalities shape places. Right now, you have some pieces of your identity that are the same – those things that you recognise about yourself. But what came from the context is now gone, and you're feeling the burn of that absence – your personality is starting to change because you have a different context around you.
I'm not going to tell you what you should do – that's for you to decide. I'm only going to say that you cannot experience the change without making the change. You don't know what life will be like in two, three, five years if you stay. You don't know who you will become, and you don't know what your values will be. You don't know what life experiences you will have, firstly because you don't know the context, secondly because you don't know what part of your own identity from the previous place was contextual.
If you want to know yourself better, the only way to do that is to stay out of the comfort zone as long as possible, and gradually become a different person.
That gets to the crux of why I think people have trouble moving. I first noticed this in Los Angeles. Paradoxically, the people that LOVED IT HERE I WAS BORN TO BE HERE OMG for the first six months, had the highest rates of moving home. The people that hate it, how do people live here. The traffic. The prices. The people. Hate it. are still there ten years later. I never did figure that one out, and it seemed to have happened more there than anywhere else.
But what I think is going on there is that when you arrive somewhere, the first comparison that you make is 1) what is this compared to what I thought it was going to be? Once you have enough information to determine if its what you thought it would be, 2) is then what is this compared to what I had before? Those two happen quickly – within in the first six months to a year. The 3) what is this really? is what takes years.
And it's all good. A lot of hinges on who you are, and what you want to do with your life. A big fat cost benefit. For many people, it's career-driven.
It would not be as satisfying to try and break into the Lisbon financial scene as the London financial scene. That being said, if your looking to be a chef, it may be easier to get started and rise in Lisbon than in London.
If you want to surf every day, Paris is not a great place for that. If you want lingering afternoons in the Tuscany countryside, Los Angeles is not an ideal place.
Really, this question comes down to where are you and what do you want? And it's a bipolar question. You cannot become a different person by going home. You will change to some degrees, but largely the context will continue rather than shift completely. Simultaneously, you will change into a different person by changing the context.
The question is really: do you want to know who else you can be, or not? If you would rather know, then you stay. If you're not really bothered, then go.
posted by nickrussell at 3:19 PM on January 19, 2016 [4 favorites]
Funny, I literally just moved back to a city I loved for similar reasons. I was lucky because I was able to keep my job (the job I moved to the other city for) and telecommute ... but even if I couldn't have, I would have eventually moved back.
To be honest, I didn't really think about justifying it to anyone else. I mean, my friends in the new city were sad to lose me but happy for me to move back to a place I loved. My friends in my old (now current) city were just happy I was moving back. There were a few people who said things like "it's too bad things didn't work out for you in [new city]" but I made it pretty clear that it wasn't about things not working out, it was just about me moving back to a city where I have a really good quality of life. Anyone having any other sort of reaction is pretty much the definition of "not your problem": it's your life and you have to do what's right for you.
That said, it does leap out at me that you've only been in the new city for 6 months. I have moved cities several times, and IME, 6 months in is the hardest time. It's long enough that the novelty has worn off, but not long enough for you to feel comfortable and have your networks set up.
I have personally found that I actually need to spend a year in a new city before I can really tell if it's right for me or not - for instance, 6-9 months into my time in my current (beloved) city, I was planning ways to move on. But then things started clicking for me around the 11-13 month mark. OTOH, with the city I just left, I committed to myself that I would stay at least 2 years, and I'm glad I did because I did have some good experiences but also feel very confident I made the right choice.
posted by lunasol at 3:54 PM on January 19, 2016
To be honest, I didn't really think about justifying it to anyone else. I mean, my friends in the new city were sad to lose me but happy for me to move back to a place I loved. My friends in my old (now current) city were just happy I was moving back. There were a few people who said things like "it's too bad things didn't work out for you in [new city]" but I made it pretty clear that it wasn't about things not working out, it was just about me moving back to a city where I have a really good quality of life. Anyone having any other sort of reaction is pretty much the definition of "not your problem": it's your life and you have to do what's right for you.
That said, it does leap out at me that you've only been in the new city for 6 months. I have moved cities several times, and IME, 6 months in is the hardest time. It's long enough that the novelty has worn off, but not long enough for you to feel comfortable and have your networks set up.
I have personally found that I actually need to spend a year in a new city before I can really tell if it's right for me or not - for instance, 6-9 months into my time in my current (beloved) city, I was planning ways to move on. But then things started clicking for me around the 11-13 month mark. OTOH, with the city I just left, I committed to myself that I would stay at least 2 years, and I'm glad I did because I did have some good experiences but also feel very confident I made the right choice.
posted by lunasol at 3:54 PM on January 19, 2016
Best answer: I moved abroad and lived there for seven years before I moved back to my hometown. I could have moved pretty much anywhere in the world (i.e. I had the requisite permits I needed to enable me to freely work in most western countries) and I still came back here and have never regretted it.
I was very unhappy while living there for a number of reasons, most of which were unrelated to the actual country in which I was living. I came to realize that there were a lot of things that were important to me that I had never considered would be a problem when I was planning my move. Being in close proximity to friends and family who cared about me was one. I made many dear friends overseas with whom I am still in contact today, but there's something (for me) in having a solid history with people, and having a shared culture. In not being just a blank slate with my only identity being "American" when there's so much more that makes up who we are (as Americans) that's more or less lost to people in a different country who are usually not familiar with various frames of reference that I'd become accustomed to falling back on.
There was also the small day to day things - things which I had built my life and habits around which were different there and which (for me) became exhausting trying to navigate. These and so many other small differences added up after time and it exhausted my already shaky emotional resilience. Even though there were lots of great things that I loved about the place I lived, it was the multitudes of the small things that shaped my day to day living and ended up being difficult for me to deal with.
Anyway, what I'm saying is it doesn't matter why you want to do it, and don't worry about justifying yourself to others. You deserve to be happy and you should do what makes you happy. When people ask me why I moved back, I tell them I wanted to be closer to friends and family (true), that I really loved and miss the place I used to live (true), but that I found that being here is the best thing for me ultimately and I am very grateful to have had the opportunity to live and work abroad for the time that I did (also true). Not one person has ever questioned my motivations on this. Not one. And I don't think they will with you either.
posted by triggerfinger at 4:06 PM on January 19, 2016
I was very unhappy while living there for a number of reasons, most of which were unrelated to the actual country in which I was living. I came to realize that there were a lot of things that were important to me that I had never considered would be a problem when I was planning my move. Being in close proximity to friends and family who cared about me was one. I made many dear friends overseas with whom I am still in contact today, but there's something (for me) in having a solid history with people, and having a shared culture. In not being just a blank slate with my only identity being "American" when there's so much more that makes up who we are (as Americans) that's more or less lost to people in a different country who are usually not familiar with various frames of reference that I'd become accustomed to falling back on.
There was also the small day to day things - things which I had built my life and habits around which were different there and which (for me) became exhausting trying to navigate. These and so many other small differences added up after time and it exhausted my already shaky emotional resilience. Even though there were lots of great things that I loved about the place I lived, it was the multitudes of the small things that shaped my day to day living and ended up being difficult for me to deal with.
Anyway, what I'm saying is it doesn't matter why you want to do it, and don't worry about justifying yourself to others. You deserve to be happy and you should do what makes you happy. When people ask me why I moved back, I tell them I wanted to be closer to friends and family (true), that I really loved and miss the place I used to live (true), but that I found that being here is the best thing for me ultimately and I am very grateful to have had the opportunity to live and work abroad for the time that I did (also true). Not one person has ever questioned my motivations on this. Not one. And I don't think they will with you either.
posted by triggerfinger at 4:06 PM on January 19, 2016
"No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man."
posted by superfish at 10:30 PM on January 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by superfish at 10:30 PM on January 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thanks all. Very helpful.
nickrussell -- I appreciate and agree with your point regarding changing as a person when you change context, but I completely disagree with your final takeaway (and your answer pretty much illustrated the kinds of attitudes people have that made me ask this question).
posted by anonymoosemoosemoose at 9:01 AM on January 20, 2016 [3 favorites]
nickrussell -- I appreciate and agree with your point regarding changing as a person when you change context, but I completely disagree with your final takeaway (and your answer pretty much illustrated the kinds of attitudes people have that made me ask this question).
posted by anonymoosemoosemoose at 9:01 AM on January 20, 2016 [3 favorites]
Friends are really, really important. I concluded that it was nearing a time of life when I wouldn't have such a creative, wonderful group of friends all together in the big city for too much longer, and it was worth more in my life to get to be me with them than to get to be me being an Adventure Person.
People are gonna start to have kids and/or gonna start to move somewhere a little simpler, but everyone is here now. So I had my adventure for a few years in a place that was really, really hard for me. I learned the language and made friends. The adventure was legit and worth it. And then I came back to the second home (real home) that my from-elsewhere friends had all made for each other in the big city, and have no regrets about it at all. You're gonna be fine.
posted by lauranesson at 9:32 PM on January 21, 2016
People are gonna start to have kids and/or gonna start to move somewhere a little simpler, but everyone is here now. So I had my adventure for a few years in a place that was really, really hard for me. I learned the language and made friends. The adventure was legit and worth it. And then I came back to the second home (real home) that my from-elsewhere friends had all made for each other in the big city, and have no regrets about it at all. You're gonna be fine.
posted by lauranesson at 9:32 PM on January 21, 2016
Best answer: Also, there's no harm in seeing your pretty cool U.S. city as a place to slingshot from and get the happy privilege to come back to. That's really the ideal, right? Having a home and getting to explore, both? Your friends are going to be happy you're back, and will be happy when you get to adventure further. Opposite of failure.
posted by lauranesson at 9:35 PM on January 21, 2016
posted by lauranesson at 9:35 PM on January 21, 2016
I have moved away from and back to the same city, not once, not twice, but three times. Each time I left for good reasons. Each time I came back for good reasons.
The last town I lived in before I moved back? I knew it was a mistake on Day 2. Day 2, and I stayed for 4 years (for good reason, but still. 4 years!). Long term though, I can look at that experience, and know how it shaped me. There were fundamental truths I realized about myself there. There were several amazing things that would not have happened if I were in my home city. I can point to my evolution as a person and know that to be there was actually a long term win, even if it was miserable at the time.
And then I can look and say yes, it was time to come home. It was time to come home but I could only truly appreciate home, and the family and friends who welcomed me back, by having left. I could only appreciate the blessings I'd had by leaving - and could appreciate them so much more deeply now that I am back.
It's not a failure - it's you as a human realizing that it was a good fit on paper but not in reality. As someone said above, it would be a failure if you continued to cling to your Fancy Job in New City just because it looks good on paper. That's actually a pretty adult thing to do - to be able to step back and say, "Time for a course adjustment". It's not the last time it will happen. There is no shame in realizing that you took a chance, and it didn't work out.
posted by RogueTech at 11:17 PM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
The last town I lived in before I moved back? I knew it was a mistake on Day 2. Day 2, and I stayed for 4 years (for good reason, but still. 4 years!). Long term though, I can look at that experience, and know how it shaped me. There were fundamental truths I realized about myself there. There were several amazing things that would not have happened if I were in my home city. I can point to my evolution as a person and know that to be there was actually a long term win, even if it was miserable at the time.
And then I can look and say yes, it was time to come home. It was time to come home but I could only truly appreciate home, and the family and friends who welcomed me back, by having left. I could only appreciate the blessings I'd had by leaving - and could appreciate them so much more deeply now that I am back.
It's not a failure - it's you as a human realizing that it was a good fit on paper but not in reality. As someone said above, it would be a failure if you continued to cling to your Fancy Job in New City just because it looks good on paper. That's actually a pretty adult thing to do - to be able to step back and say, "Time for a course adjustment". It's not the last time it will happen. There is no shame in realizing that you took a chance, and it didn't work out.
posted by RogueTech at 11:17 PM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
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Me? I've lived in 9 states, 15 cities and 29(?) addresses over the past however-many years, 17 I think... (I have difficulty with time and numbers, but I think those are right). For the longest time, I moved back to one particular area (city/state) that is now closed to me for very personal reasons because, why not? I liked that area. No other justification needed. Why did I keep moving out of the area? Because, again, why not? I wanted to. Honestly, that's all the justification you need.
posted by patheral at 11:06 AM on January 19, 2016 [5 favorites]