Son's drug-using friends are bringing him down. How can I help him?
October 28, 2015 7:28 AM Subscribe
My mid-20s son opened up to me that he thinks the friends he's hanging out with are a bad influence on him. According to him, pretty much all they do when they see each other is smoke marijuana and play video games. My son has depression and doesn't have many friends in the first place, so feels like he is stuck between losing his closest local friends or becoming more like them. What can I do to advise or help?
My son is in his mid-20s. The friends in question are good friends from back when he was in middle school, so he's known them for over a decade. I know the friends well, but have not seen them for years and did not know that they were abusing drugs. Apparently they started becoming heavy users last year - just marijuana as far as I know, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were other drugs.
My son confessed that he's been using marijuana much more often ever since hanging out with these friends (he buys it from them as well). Even before my son told me about his issues, I had noticed a change in him - he's had depression for a while, but I can definitely see more apathy and a lack of motivation than before he started smoking more often. He's not engaging in his hobbies as much as he used to.
He told me that the tipping point that convinced him to tell me is when his friend told him that he got his guinea pig high. My son said that this was the moment when he thought in his head, "What am I doing with my life?"
Obviously I want him to stop seeing those friends ASAP. He said he knows it would be the right thing to do but they are old friends and he is afraid of being alone. He also said he's not sure if he can cope with his depression anymore without marijuana (he is on meds + is in therapy too, by the way.) What kind of advice can I give him that will help convince him to do what he knows is right? I don't know whether to employ encouragement, scare tactics, or tough love... all I know is that I'm terrified of seeing him going down this path.
My son is in his mid-20s. The friends in question are good friends from back when he was in middle school, so he's known them for over a decade. I know the friends well, but have not seen them for years and did not know that they were abusing drugs. Apparently they started becoming heavy users last year - just marijuana as far as I know, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were other drugs.
My son confessed that he's been using marijuana much more often ever since hanging out with these friends (he buys it from them as well). Even before my son told me about his issues, I had noticed a change in him - he's had depression for a while, but I can definitely see more apathy and a lack of motivation than before he started smoking more often. He's not engaging in his hobbies as much as he used to.
He told me that the tipping point that convinced him to tell me is when his friend told him that he got his guinea pig high. My son said that this was the moment when he thought in his head, "What am I doing with my life?"
Obviously I want him to stop seeing those friends ASAP. He said he knows it would be the right thing to do but they are old friends and he is afraid of being alone. He also said he's not sure if he can cope with his depression anymore without marijuana (he is on meds + is in therapy too, by the way.) What kind of advice can I give him that will help convince him to do what he knows is right? I don't know whether to employ encouragement, scare tactics, or tough love... all I know is that I'm terrified of seeing him going down this path.
Rather than immediately and completely shutting these friends out of his life, which sounds both difficult and possibly depression-inducing (I agree the current situation isn't great, but it also wouldn't be great to suddenly have NO friends network), what about a longer-term, multi-prong approach. Something like:
1. As much as possible, try to arrange meetings with this group of friends in public places, where marijuana use won't be possible. So, going out for coffee or dinner or to see a movie instead of meeting up at someone's house to play video games.
2. At the same time, invest time in activities that will put him into contact with new social connections. I'm not sure what your son's hobbies are, but that could be a good place to start. Whatever they are, trying to engage in those hobbies in a more social way. Other options could be volunteering or taking a class at a local community college.
3. As your son builds up other friends networks, he could cut back on these "bad influence" friends more and more, rather than trying to do everything cold turkey.
I think helping your son strategize on how to solve this issue makes more sense than some sort of scare tactics approach. There is a real tension here, between "These people aren't a great influence" and also "Having zero friends would make my depression worse." "BUT POT IS BAD!" is not a solution to that tension.
posted by rainbowbrite at 7:34 AM on October 28, 2015 [20 favorites]
1. As much as possible, try to arrange meetings with this group of friends in public places, where marijuana use won't be possible. So, going out for coffee or dinner or to see a movie instead of meeting up at someone's house to play video games.
2. At the same time, invest time in activities that will put him into contact with new social connections. I'm not sure what your son's hobbies are, but that could be a good place to start. Whatever they are, trying to engage in those hobbies in a more social way. Other options could be volunteering or taking a class at a local community college.
3. As your son builds up other friends networks, he could cut back on these "bad influence" friends more and more, rather than trying to do everything cold turkey.
I think helping your son strategize on how to solve this issue makes more sense than some sort of scare tactics approach. There is a real tension here, between "These people aren't a great influence" and also "Having zero friends would make my depression worse." "BUT POT IS BAD!" is not a solution to that tension.
posted by rainbowbrite at 7:34 AM on October 28, 2015 [20 favorites]
Obviously I want him to stop seeing those friends ASAP
"Abusing drugs?" "Scare tactics?" I'm not sure what you should do, but your question reads like you wrote it about your middle school son, not your mid-twenties son. Try to recalibrate your mindset. Your son is an adult. How would you help a friend who confided in you?
posted by the_blizz at 7:37 AM on October 28, 2015 [30 favorites]
"Abusing drugs?" "Scare tactics?" I'm not sure what you should do, but your question reads like you wrote it about your middle school son, not your mid-twenties son. Try to recalibrate your mindset. Your son is an adult. How would you help a friend who confided in you?
posted by the_blizz at 7:37 AM on October 28, 2015 [30 favorites]
I wouldn't use scare tactics or tough love. I also wouldn't pressure him to drop his friends entirely.
Does he live nearby? If so, I'd ask him to scale back seeing the stoner friends - not because they're bad people, but because yes, marijuana use can exacerbate depressive tendencies and absolutely will kill motivation - and at the same time, I suggest you get more involved with his life. What are the hobbies he likes? Can he do them at your place? Maybe set a standing date for a movie once a week? It would be nice for him to have a reliable social engagement that doesn't involve his friends, if you can recalibrate to see him as an adult you want to spend time with, and not someone to scold. Keep him close, and together explore ways to add non-stoner activity to his life.
posted by fingersandtoes at 7:39 AM on October 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
Does he live nearby? If so, I'd ask him to scale back seeing the stoner friends - not because they're bad people, but because yes, marijuana use can exacerbate depressive tendencies and absolutely will kill motivation - and at the same time, I suggest you get more involved with his life. What are the hobbies he likes? Can he do them at your place? Maybe set a standing date for a movie once a week? It would be nice for him to have a reliable social engagement that doesn't involve his friends, if you can recalibrate to see him as an adult you want to spend time with, and not someone to scold. Keep him close, and together explore ways to add non-stoner activity to his life.
posted by fingersandtoes at 7:39 AM on October 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
Well, what IS he doing with his life? The friends don't really seem like the problem. Does he work? Have hobbies? What does he have to focus on other than smoking, chilling, and video games?
posted by ReluctantViking at 7:55 AM on October 28, 2015 [12 favorites]
posted by ReluctantViking at 7:55 AM on October 28, 2015 [12 favorites]
I think the best thing you can do is encourage him to talk with his therapist and psychiatrist about how he's feeling and about the things about his current lifestyle that are troubling to him. If he's afraid he's self-medicating with marijuana (which is what I hear when he says, "he's not sure if he can cope with his depression anymore without marijuana"), his mental health professionals need to know that so that they can either adjust his treatment or make sure that his marijuana use is congruent with his treatment (and yes, it's possible to use marijuana as a legitimate treatment for anxiety, depression, and other mental health conditions).
Beyond that, I agree that you can make yourself available to him. But I think it's reasonable for him to say that he's more afraid that the isolation will hurt his mental health than that weed will. And that's his choice to make. Trying to force him to give up his only friends is not only a losing battle that will alienate him from you, but also may actively be harmful to his mental health. And he's an adult: you don't get to control who he is friends with or set up play-dates with people you think are more suitable.
I can hear in your question how concerned you are about your son. But I think this question is more about your anxiety than about his depression or smoking. And in some sense, the question can only be about you, because you're asking us, not your son. If your son posts a question telling us what he wants and asking for advice, we can give him that. But he hasn't, so all we can do is talk to you about your own fears and anxieties. And the best way for you to manage your own feelings is to try not to panic, trust your adult son to make the best decisions he can under the circumstances (and in some sense, trust yourself that you have raised him to be able to make good decisions), and offer him support when he asks for it. Everything else is in his corner.
posted by decathecting at 7:58 AM on October 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
Beyond that, I agree that you can make yourself available to him. But I think it's reasonable for him to say that he's more afraid that the isolation will hurt his mental health than that weed will. And that's his choice to make. Trying to force him to give up his only friends is not only a losing battle that will alienate him from you, but also may actively be harmful to his mental health. And he's an adult: you don't get to control who he is friends with or set up play-dates with people you think are more suitable.
I can hear in your question how concerned you are about your son. But I think this question is more about your anxiety than about his depression or smoking. And in some sense, the question can only be about you, because you're asking us, not your son. If your son posts a question telling us what he wants and asking for advice, we can give him that. But he hasn't, so all we can do is talk to you about your own fears and anxieties. And the best way for you to manage your own feelings is to try not to panic, trust your adult son to make the best decisions he can under the circumstances (and in some sense, trust yourself that you have raised him to be able to make good decisions), and offer him support when he asks for it. Everything else is in his corner.
posted by decathecting at 7:58 AM on October 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
Can't emphasise enough encouraging him (helping where possible) to start doing new things, meeting new people, making new friends. The old ones will either phase out, or they will grow out of this kind of stuff (some of mine did, some didn't) and he'll be able to re-form his friendships with them.
I was lucky when I was at school and college, because I went to a different secondary school and then college to the majority of my friends, so each time my friend group multiplied. I also went to several out-of-school clubs, and interest groups.
I say I was lucky because this meant that, when things got weird or politicky with one group (they always do at some point) I had the others to fall back on. No one group of people had a monopoly on my social wellbeing, and I've tried hard to maintain that through my adult life. It's helped me a lot.
posted by greenish at 7:59 AM on October 28, 2015 [4 favorites]
I was lucky when I was at school and college, because I went to a different secondary school and then college to the majority of my friends, so each time my friend group multiplied. I also went to several out-of-school clubs, and interest groups.
I say I was lucky because this meant that, when things got weird or politicky with one group (they always do at some point) I had the others to fall back on. No one group of people had a monopoly on my social wellbeing, and I've tried hard to maintain that through my adult life. It's helped me a lot.
posted by greenish at 7:59 AM on October 28, 2015 [4 favorites]
What are his hobbies that are falling by the wayside? Are they group activities, or solitary ones? Can they be group activities? If he already has interests that these friends don't share, it might be helpful for him to cultivate more friends around those interests.
Also, ugh, I hate suggesting this because I hate doing it, but regular exercise would probably help him with his mood.
posted by Ragged Richard at 8:02 AM on October 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
Also, ugh, I hate suggesting this because I hate doing it, but regular exercise would probably help him with his mood.
posted by Ragged Richard at 8:02 AM on October 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
The best treatment for all these issues is to get real busy doing something else. If he doesn't work, try to find a job (which I realize may be hard and may take time so see the next suggestion), and whether he works or not start volunteering. Food bank, humane society, soup kitchen, city beautification project, Habitat for Humanity - basically every charity ever has need for young guys who can carry heavy stuff, and his effort will make an obvious difference immediately.
Plus he'll meet people, both in the friend sense and in the networking sense. Maybe do it with him for a while if he's likely to spook and stop.
Encourage a "try new things!" spirit in him, as depression tends to whisper "don't try new things, too scary, you're not good at things" in the other ear. Maybe both of you write down 6 scary things (out-in-the-real-world things) you'd like to do in the next 12 months and cheer each other on to tick them off your lists. Not be good at them, not stick with them, just try them. Introductory bowling league, try out for the community holiday play, go talk to an actual bank person about starting a retirement account, use the library more often, take an intro martial arts class. Go dooooooo things.
It's up to you how much of this to break to him, but most people don't stay friends with their middle-school buddies. People evolve and change and acquire new groups of friends, ideally ones with similar interests and values, as their own interests and values change. Keeping your shitty old friends will keep you from making or being able to keep new friends, because a person's character is partially defined by the company they keep.
You might ask him if he feels like he's having productive therapy. A problem I have seen with particularly young people in certain kinds of less-formal talk therapy is that the therapist is expecting wise introspection...from someone whose pre-frontal cortex isn't even finished developing. If he's not in CBT or DBT, or some sort of skill-acquisition or result-oriented therapy, it might be time to change tacks there.
posted by Lyn Never at 8:03 AM on October 28, 2015 [4 favorites]
Plus he'll meet people, both in the friend sense and in the networking sense. Maybe do it with him for a while if he's likely to spook and stop.
Encourage a "try new things!" spirit in him, as depression tends to whisper "don't try new things, too scary, you're not good at things" in the other ear. Maybe both of you write down 6 scary things (out-in-the-real-world things) you'd like to do in the next 12 months and cheer each other on to tick them off your lists. Not be good at them, not stick with them, just try them. Introductory bowling league, try out for the community holiday play, go talk to an actual bank person about starting a retirement account, use the library more often, take an intro martial arts class. Go dooooooo things.
It's up to you how much of this to break to him, but most people don't stay friends with their middle-school buddies. People evolve and change and acquire new groups of friends, ideally ones with similar interests and values, as their own interests and values change. Keeping your shitty old friends will keep you from making or being able to keep new friends, because a person's character is partially defined by the company they keep.
You might ask him if he feels like he's having productive therapy. A problem I have seen with particularly young people in certain kinds of less-formal talk therapy is that the therapist is expecting wise introspection...from someone whose pre-frontal cortex isn't even finished developing. If he's not in CBT or DBT, or some sort of skill-acquisition or result-oriented therapy, it might be time to change tacks there.
posted by Lyn Never at 8:03 AM on October 28, 2015 [4 favorites]
Oh, and expect a solid stream of "I can't" and excuses why he can't do a single one of those things. That's what depression does. Tell him that, and challenge him to prove that voice wrong. Don't argue the "whys" much, just encourage him to think through the steps instead of spending the energy on refusing.
posted by Lyn Never at 8:05 AM on October 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Lyn Never at 8:05 AM on October 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
Guys in their early 20s smoking weed and playing video games? Sounds incredibly normal until they start dating and then it ends.
Treat your son like an adult. If he doesn't want to do this activity he needs to find other activities.
posted by k8t at 8:09 AM on October 28, 2015 [14 favorites]
Treat your son like an adult. If he doesn't want to do this activity he needs to find other activities.
posted by k8t at 8:09 AM on October 28, 2015 [14 favorites]
Completely agree with K8t. If your son doesn't enjoy hanging out with them because of their activities, he should either a) suggest that they do different activities or b) find different folks who do enjoy activities they like. I don't think he needs to abandon this friend group based on what you said; this sounds pretty bog standard for a certain subset of male early twenties guys and is typically something they grow out of as they find other activities. That said, I would encourage your son to talk through the potential impacts of his weed usage with his prescriptions (as long as the doctor comes across as liberal enough to listen and provide counsel, not just freak out about it being illegal).
posted by samthemander at 8:14 AM on October 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by samthemander at 8:14 AM on October 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
It sounds to me like you've got a son who is thoughtful and wants to lead a life he enjoys, he just hasn't figured out exactly how to do that. You know, like most of the rest of humanity. I don't think scare tactics or whatever are particularly helpful. Making changes in life is hard -- even more so when depressed. Doubly when none of your friends are supporting those changes.
I would suggest making sure that your son knows that you love and support him. (It sounds like you are already doing a great job with that since he came to you with this issue.) Ask him what he wants to do. Then ask him what you can do to help. Does he want someone to just listen rather than problem solve? Does he want to have fun, stressfree time with you? Does he want to brainstorm new activities? Then -- and this is the important part -- do it. Treat him like the adult that he is. Show him that you trust him to take good care of himself. And never let him doubt that you will support him along the way.
posted by mcduff at 8:17 AM on October 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
I would suggest making sure that your son knows that you love and support him. (It sounds like you are already doing a great job with that since he came to you with this issue.) Ask him what he wants to do. Then ask him what you can do to help. Does he want someone to just listen rather than problem solve? Does he want to have fun, stressfree time with you? Does he want to brainstorm new activities? Then -- and this is the important part -- do it. Treat him like the adult that he is. Show him that you trust him to take good care of himself. And never let him doubt that you will support him along the way.
posted by mcduff at 8:17 AM on October 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thank you so much for the replies so far. I'd like to clarify: My son is 27, so I suppose he's mid/late 20s. I agree that scare tactics are a bad idea, but I have the unfortunate tendency to blurt out things in the moment that I regret later. He had a great job but had to take a leave of absence (and eventually quit) due to his depression.
posted by BuddyBoo at 8:23 AM on October 28, 2015
posted by BuddyBoo at 8:23 AM on October 28, 2015
If he feels safe enough to talk to you about this, maybe he'd agree to accompany you on a volunteer outing. When I feel myself getting depressed or in a rut, I go help build a house for Habitat, or read stories to kids at the elementary school. You could say you wanted to do something out of the ordinary (if this isn't something you normally do) and that you'd like him to come along. It'd be a good way to get outside, depending on what you do, maybe meet other, nice people, reset your perspective, etc. It would also give you guys something to talk about with each other that was positive and affirming, and would help him feel like he had done something useful with his time.
posted by staggering termagant at 9:14 AM on October 28, 2015
posted by staggering termagant at 9:14 AM on October 28, 2015
He had a great job but had to take a leave of absence (and eventually quit) due to his depression.
That's not "maybe stop hanging out with your stoner friends" territory, that's beg/borrow/steal to get him into a 4-8-week Intensive Outpatient Program today territory.
Unless you're already in the process of having him officially put on SSI/disability and having to wait for that slog of a process to complete in order to get him into an IOP, that should be priority. Scratch everything I said about doing volunteer work, that's for after treatment.
posted by Lyn Never at 9:21 AM on October 28, 2015 [18 favorites]
That's not "maybe stop hanging out with your stoner friends" territory, that's beg/borrow/steal to get him into a 4-8-week Intensive Outpatient Program today territory.
Unless you're already in the process of having him officially put on SSI/disability and having to wait for that slog of a process to complete in order to get him into an IOP, that should be priority. Scratch everything I said about doing volunteer work, that's for after treatment.
posted by Lyn Never at 9:21 AM on October 28, 2015 [18 favorites]
What Lyn Never just said, exactly.
The National Alliance on Mental Illness (NAMI) offers a free HelpLine at 1-800-950-NAMI (6264) for information, referrals and support for people living with a mental health condition, family members and caregivers. The national hotline may have ideas on how to approach this issue.
posted by hush at 9:34 AM on October 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
The National Alliance on Mental Illness (NAMI) offers a free HelpLine at 1-800-950-NAMI (6264) for information, referrals and support for people living with a mental health condition, family members and caregivers. The national hotline may have ideas on how to approach this issue.
posted by hush at 9:34 AM on October 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
This is a pretty common thing for men in their 20s. While it is annoying, and your son has the right to stop being friends with anyone he wants to, I don't think it's the kind of thing that merits dropping them ASAP, "tough love", or language about "abusing drugs".
The best way to deal with a group of friends who are bumming you out -- and this is true whether it's too much weed smoking and video games, too many nights in bars, annoying political views, toxic behavior, whatever -- is just to go make some other friends.
He's an adult in his 20s. He should have the ability to stop hanging out with Group A and instead go do Activity B. Depression makes this sort of thing harder, but it's still in the realm of a thing he doesn't really need specific advice about how to achieve.
In my opinion, viewing this as a monumental life event like Breaking Up With Your Childhood Friends Who Are Druggies Ruining Lives is the only real way to mess this up. In a couple more years all of these guys are going to realize smoking weed and playing video games all the time is boring, and they'll quit on their own. Or they'll just be boring people who aren't any fun to be friends with anymore.
posted by Sara C. at 9:36 AM on October 28, 2015 [6 favorites]
The best way to deal with a group of friends who are bumming you out -- and this is true whether it's too much weed smoking and video games, too many nights in bars, annoying political views, toxic behavior, whatever -- is just to go make some other friends.
He's an adult in his 20s. He should have the ability to stop hanging out with Group A and instead go do Activity B. Depression makes this sort of thing harder, but it's still in the realm of a thing he doesn't really need specific advice about how to achieve.
In my opinion, viewing this as a monumental life event like Breaking Up With Your Childhood Friends Who Are Druggies Ruining Lives is the only real way to mess this up. In a couple more years all of these guys are going to realize smoking weed and playing video games all the time is boring, and they'll quit on their own. Or they'll just be boring people who aren't any fun to be friends with anymore.
posted by Sara C. at 9:36 AM on October 28, 2015 [6 favorites]
Other folks have covered most of the territory really well, but I just had what's going to seem like a random thought - if he doesn't want to cut his lifelong friends out entirely (and that would be drastic thing to do in these circumstances), could he cast himself as "den mother"? Every group needs a DD/someone to run down to the 7-11 for cheetos/etc., and it's a lot easier to let up when you can say "Nah, not tonight, man, I don't feel like smoking up - someone's got to cook for you fools!"
Some of these guys will take advantage of his kindness - and he'll eventually have to figure out how to disengage from the ones who are going to take advantage of him forever versus the ones who are just maturing slower. There's a fine line between feeling like you're enabling people and feeling like you're taking care of your friends. But, if he can negotiate it - and basically, just start the aging out of this loop a little sooner than his friends - the ones that eventually also mature out of doing this all the time will remember his help and be there forever for him, because that's how this works.
Good luck to him! Changes in your friends and friends group - which happens a lot at this age (I'm watching some younger friends go through this RIGHT NOW, though not with pot in the mix) are really hard to negotiate and it's a rough thing.
posted by joycehealy at 9:53 AM on October 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
Some of these guys will take advantage of his kindness - and he'll eventually have to figure out how to disengage from the ones who are going to take advantage of him forever versus the ones who are just maturing slower. There's a fine line between feeling like you're enabling people and feeling like you're taking care of your friends. But, if he can negotiate it - and basically, just start the aging out of this loop a little sooner than his friends - the ones that eventually also mature out of doing this all the time will remember his help and be there forever for him, because that's how this works.
Good luck to him! Changes in your friends and friends group - which happens a lot at this age (I'm watching some younger friends go through this RIGHT NOW, though not with pot in the mix) are really hard to negotiate and it's a rough thing.
posted by joycehealy at 9:53 AM on October 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
How wonderful that he shares this stuff with you and that you care so much! His self-awareness actually seems really encouraging. He realizes he is self-medicating; he realizes his friends might be burnouts or on the way to being burnouts, and he doesn't want that for himself. A Reagan-era tough-love style lecture from mom on the dangers of drug abuse and peer pressure seems really out of place here because he already knows all of that, and the heart of the issue seems to be his depression, anyway. He's not a wayward teen, he's an adult with a serious mental health problem. Depression that necessitates an indefinite leave of absence is serious depression and that is unfortunately not something you can fix by banning pot or stoner friends.
Depression can tell us it's not okay to even dream of wanting something better than we already have; his wanting something better for himself is a huge step already that should be applauded. I agree with others that the emergency here is his depression, and should be communicated to his therapist as such.
Re: to social aspect. If he's outgrowing his friends I think the best you can do is reassure him that's okay. (And really common-- who hasn't realized 10 years after grad that some of their friends still act like teenagers, and scaled back on hanging out with them?) However, immediately cutting off his entire social group seems drastic, especially in this dire of a depression. How about mixing it up? Can he hang out with the individuals he relates to best, out of the house, rather than the whole basement gang? Can he hang out for one game but not stay the whole night? Can he work new people into his life, even if for now it's just the barista or librarian he greets when he hangs out somewhere else? Can he handle part-time work or volunteer work or a gym membership or joining a meetup group or a class or lessons? I know all of these things are a billion times easier said than done but if he can try them, his current crowd won't be his entire social reality.
posted by kapers at 11:35 AM on October 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
Depression can tell us it's not okay to even dream of wanting something better than we already have; his wanting something better for himself is a huge step already that should be applauded. I agree with others that the emergency here is his depression, and should be communicated to his therapist as such.
Re: to social aspect. If he's outgrowing his friends I think the best you can do is reassure him that's okay. (And really common-- who hasn't realized 10 years after grad that some of their friends still act like teenagers, and scaled back on hanging out with them?) However, immediately cutting off his entire social group seems drastic, especially in this dire of a depression. How about mixing it up? Can he hang out with the individuals he relates to best, out of the house, rather than the whole basement gang? Can he hang out for one game but not stay the whole night? Can he work new people into his life, even if for now it's just the barista or librarian he greets when he hangs out somewhere else? Can he handle part-time work or volunteer work or a gym membership or joining a meetup group or a class or lessons? I know all of these things are a billion times easier said than done but if he can try them, his current crowd won't be his entire social reality.
posted by kapers at 11:35 AM on October 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
Can you help him start a routine hobby that involves some time outside or being physical? Maybe with you, or with a non-stoner friend to make it easier to start & commit.
Walk the dog together in a big park a couple times a week
Paint the basement together
Archery lessons
Softball league
Just something to snap him out of his head and into his body/senses every week? And maybe get a little exercise at the same time? Can really help w/ depression.
posted by pseudostrabismus at 11:39 AM on October 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
Walk the dog together in a big park a couple times a week
Paint the basement together
Archery lessons
Softball league
Just something to snap him out of his head and into his body/senses every week? And maybe get a little exercise at the same time? Can really help w/ depression.
posted by pseudostrabismus at 11:39 AM on October 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
Lots of good advice above. Your son is an adult and is handling this in a pretty adult way; kudos for that!
In terms of suggestions for change:
-Dating can be a way to open the door into new friends and activities, not to mention that it can shake up the rhythm that he seems to have found (and found to dislike) with his friends.
-Depending on his role in the group and what is available, there are iterative steps toward a different lifestyle... Instead of "let's get high and watch TV and play video games" you can move toward "let's get high and go on a hike" or "we can't get too high tonight because we have a flag football game later" or whatever
-Getting back to work can help add structure and positive influences to someone's life (and reduce the time spent with less good influences). There is also the nice benefit here of having a budget to do something other than chill on the couch.
In terms of his handling these friends:
-If he is going back to a job, he can get out of smoking by saying that he needs to be ready for a drug test soon... Any friends that are friends at all will back off for that.
-No one is going to look down on him for trying to get laid.
-If he is a "leader" in the crew, from time to time he can point out that their behavior is a waste of time and money... it is possible that others agree with him but don't have the confidence or ambition to say so (or to do anything about it).
He's got this!
posted by milqman at 11:41 AM on October 28, 2015
In terms of suggestions for change:
-Dating can be a way to open the door into new friends and activities, not to mention that it can shake up the rhythm that he seems to have found (and found to dislike) with his friends.
-Depending on his role in the group and what is available, there are iterative steps toward a different lifestyle... Instead of "let's get high and watch TV and play video games" you can move toward "let's get high and go on a hike" or "we can't get too high tonight because we have a flag football game later" or whatever
-Getting back to work can help add structure and positive influences to someone's life (and reduce the time spent with less good influences). There is also the nice benefit here of having a budget to do something other than chill on the couch.
In terms of his handling these friends:
-If he is going back to a job, he can get out of smoking by saying that he needs to be ready for a drug test soon... Any friends that are friends at all will back off for that.
-No one is going to look down on him for trying to get laid.
-If he is a "leader" in the crew, from time to time he can point out that their behavior is a waste of time and money... it is possible that others agree with him but don't have the confidence or ambition to say so (or to do anything about it).
He's got this!
posted by milqman at 11:41 AM on October 28, 2015
As can be AskMe typicality, I'm going to give a sideways answer that pertains tangentially to your question, because your update has me noticing a far more critical issue that smoking weed.
Your son is 27 and needed to leave a job because of depression recently, right?
When a 27 year old needs to quit work because of mental health issues, the first and ONLY priority is getting those mental issues dealt with immediately. The issue now is not at all about smoking pot.
But also as a 27 year old, he should be looking into places. I understand chicken and egg vis a vis depression, so if you want to really help him, you'll help your son find an inpatient program.
The pot smoking will get dealt with at a program as he learns healthy habits. But your son is very much an adult and if he's so depressed he can't work, then he needs intensive help asap.
posted by kinetic at 12:05 PM on October 28, 2015 [9 favorites]
Your son is 27 and needed to leave a job because of depression recently, right?
When a 27 year old needs to quit work because of mental health issues, the first and ONLY priority is getting those mental issues dealt with immediately. The issue now is not at all about smoking pot.
But also as a 27 year old, he should be looking into places. I understand chicken and egg vis a vis depression, so if you want to really help him, you'll help your son find an inpatient program.
The pot smoking will get dealt with at a program as he learns healthy habits. But your son is very much an adult and if he's so depressed he can't work, then he needs intensive help asap.
posted by kinetic at 12:05 PM on October 28, 2015 [9 favorites]
Something no one else has proposed, but I was once a young guy with a circle of friends who smoked way too much pot and played lots of video games: has he considered asking his friends for help?
My friends at that time (and some are still my friends) cared for me, and were genuinely nice, albeit slackers. If I had needed to say, "Hi guys, I think I need to lay off the pot a bit, it's really exacerbating my depression and it's worrying me", they would have sympathised and assisted me where they could. They wouldn't have stopped smoking or anything - they came to that point, or not, themselves - but they certainly wouldn't have pressured or judged me for that statement, and would not have offered me pot when we were hanging out etc.
If they are truly his friends, he should consider confiding in them, and asking for help.
posted by smoke at 3:33 PM on October 28, 2015 [5 favorites]
My friends at that time (and some are still my friends) cared for me, and were genuinely nice, albeit slackers. If I had needed to say, "Hi guys, I think I need to lay off the pot a bit, it's really exacerbating my depression and it's worrying me", they would have sympathised and assisted me where they could. They wouldn't have stopped smoking or anything - they came to that point, or not, themselves - but they certainly wouldn't have pressured or judged me for that statement, and would not have offered me pot when we were hanging out etc.
If they are truly his friends, he should consider confiding in them, and asking for help.
posted by smoke at 3:33 PM on October 28, 2015 [5 favorites]
My friends at that time (and some are still my friends) cared for me, and were genuinely nice, albeit slackers. If I had needed to say, "Hi guys, I think I need to lay off the pot a bit, it's really exacerbating my depression and it's worrying me", they would have sympathised and assisted me where they could. They wouldn't have stopped smoking or anything - they came to that point, or not, themselves - but they certainly wouldn't have pressured or judged me for that statement, and would not have offered me pot when we were hanging out etc.
I am a non-marijuana-using person--in part because I don't want to risk it upsetting the careful balance of meds I take for my mental health issues--who has for much of my adult life hung out very regularly with pot smokers. (Or... pot vaporizers, now? I don't know.) It has been absolutely not an issue with my social group. This is very much not a professional opinion, but it sounds like his depression is not being well-treated at present, and he's trying to self-medicate and it's going poorly. His friends, being guys in their late 20s and not necessarily great at actually talking about feelings, are not able to be particularly good support for this, but that doesn't mean they're actually the problem. Switching out this set of friends for no friends, or even in the unlikely situation completely different friends who were not pot smokers but were still not actually the sort of guys who have honest conversations about their mental health issues? Not going to change much.
He has severe depression. This might not be helping, but at the core, it isn't the problem. It is extremely unlikely that he would be fine if he just stopped hanging out with these people and stopped using marijuana. Plenty of non-marijuana-using people have severe depression. The pot might not be helping, but it isn't the core problem that needs solving, which needs more intensive mental health care and support. Blame society for producing a generation of young men who aren't good at supporting each other through mental health crises, but finding the sort of friends who're really great about this particular issue is hard even for women.
We do, at least, have enough information about how depression works in this day and age that we should generally be starting from a place of understanding that severe depression is the thing that causes people to lose years of their lives to television or video games or whatever, rather than television or video games being the thing that causes people to lose years of their lives to severe depression.
posted by Sequence at 7:20 PM on October 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
I am a non-marijuana-using person--in part because I don't want to risk it upsetting the careful balance of meds I take for my mental health issues--who has for much of my adult life hung out very regularly with pot smokers. (Or... pot vaporizers, now? I don't know.) It has been absolutely not an issue with my social group. This is very much not a professional opinion, but it sounds like his depression is not being well-treated at present, and he's trying to self-medicate and it's going poorly. His friends, being guys in their late 20s and not necessarily great at actually talking about feelings, are not able to be particularly good support for this, but that doesn't mean they're actually the problem. Switching out this set of friends for no friends, or even in the unlikely situation completely different friends who were not pot smokers but were still not actually the sort of guys who have honest conversations about their mental health issues? Not going to change much.
He has severe depression. This might not be helping, but at the core, it isn't the problem. It is extremely unlikely that he would be fine if he just stopped hanging out with these people and stopped using marijuana. Plenty of non-marijuana-using people have severe depression. The pot might not be helping, but it isn't the core problem that needs solving, which needs more intensive mental health care and support. Blame society for producing a generation of young men who aren't good at supporting each other through mental health crises, but finding the sort of friends who're really great about this particular issue is hard even for women.
We do, at least, have enough information about how depression works in this day and age that we should generally be starting from a place of understanding that severe depression is the thing that causes people to lose years of their lives to television or video games or whatever, rather than television or video games being the thing that causes people to lose years of their lives to severe depression.
posted by Sequence at 7:20 PM on October 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
As someone who has struggled on and off for like, basically my entire life with depression and been on and off meds/in and out of treatment: The problem is not the friends, or the weed, it's the depression.
Lyn never and kinetic are on the right track here.
I'm still friends with most of the people who i used to smoke shitloads of weed with, back when i did. Most of them eventually got bored with the weed and video games thing, and now it's very much an occasional thing for them. Some quit entirely.
But yea, to reiterate, the problem here is not the friends or the weed, it's the depression. Work on working with that. My jaw seriously like dropped open when i got to the job quitting part being a tangential aside in the update. That's like "how do i deal with the damage my friend did to my car?" "UPDATE: (the car is currently on fire, by the way)".
You've gotten good suggestions here, but yea, time to change approaches.
posted by emptythought at 3:11 AM on October 29, 2015 [8 favorites]
Lyn never and kinetic are on the right track here.
I'm still friends with most of the people who i used to smoke shitloads of weed with, back when i did. Most of them eventually got bored with the weed and video games thing, and now it's very much an occasional thing for them. Some quit entirely.
But yea, to reiterate, the problem here is not the friends or the weed, it's the depression. Work on working with that. My jaw seriously like dropped open when i got to the job quitting part being a tangential aside in the update. That's like "how do i deal with the damage my friend did to my car?" "UPDATE: (the car is currently on fire, by the way)".
You've gotten good suggestions here, but yea, time to change approaches.
posted by emptythought at 3:11 AM on October 29, 2015 [8 favorites]
Yeah, this is not about the friends or the weed. This is about the fact that your son is dealing with major mental health issues. He's doing what he needs to do to get through the day. If he never saw those friends or smoked weed again, he'd still be in serious crisis because he suffers from poorly managed major depression. And he would likely be worse off without the friends and the weed, because the friends are keeping him from becoming totally isolated, and the weed is likely helping to medicate some of his symptoms (which is why he panics at the idea of giving it up).
You're focused on a couple of symptoms. Focus on the disease: depression. Everything else is just a distraction.
And honestly, if you can't keep from blurting out unhelpful "tough love" things to your suffering son, then I think you should take a step back and stop talking with him about this altogether, because you could very easily make things a lot worse for an already fragile person. And you should get some counseling yourself, because being the primary caregiver for a depressed person is stressful and hard, and you deserve some help to manage your own really obvious and painful stress about this situation.
posted by decathecting at 8:55 PM on November 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
You're focused on a couple of symptoms. Focus on the disease: depression. Everything else is just a distraction.
And honestly, if you can't keep from blurting out unhelpful "tough love" things to your suffering son, then I think you should take a step back and stop talking with him about this altogether, because you could very easily make things a lot worse for an already fragile person. And you should get some counseling yourself, because being the primary caregiver for a depressed person is stressful and hard, and you deserve some help to manage your own really obvious and painful stress about this situation.
posted by decathecting at 8:55 PM on November 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
If your son is 27 you should not be managing his friendships and his mental health care. I know some men who are just permanently broken because their parents did this stuff for them and treated them as "young" well into their twenties and thirties and now who knows how long it will go on.
I do agree with decathecting's first comment that this question is more about your anxiety than his situation. If he's going to therapy and he feels like it's working, be supportive of that, if he feels like it's not, tell him to tell his therapist that so they can figure out why it's not working, but don't try to get him into in treatment if his therapist doesn't feel like that's necessary.
My number one suggestion, and another agreement with decathecting, is to get into therapy yourself.
posted by sweetkid at 9:43 AM on November 13, 2015
I do agree with decathecting's first comment that this question is more about your anxiety than his situation. If he's going to therapy and he feels like it's working, be supportive of that, if he feels like it's not, tell him to tell his therapist that so they can figure out why it's not working, but don't try to get him into in treatment if his therapist doesn't feel like that's necessary.
My number one suggestion, and another agreement with decathecting, is to get into therapy yourself.
posted by sweetkid at 9:43 AM on November 13, 2015
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by xingcat at 7:31 AM on October 28, 2015 [1 favorite]