Parent inviting their friends to our wedding
August 17, 2015 12:40 PM Subscribe
My fiancé and I are planning on having a smallish wedding, and we are organizing it relatively quick (only 7 months in all). We cut our invite list down to 45 guests and found a perfect reception hall that provides catering (cocktails and sit-down dinner) for a maximum of exactly 45 guests. Yay, perfect! Beautiful location, great prices, and no need to find a caterer. Until his father announced that he is inviting 5 guests . . . .
We asked for a quote for the reception hall, the price is within our budget. All is on a roll . . . and then my fiancé's dad calls saying he is going to invite 5 guests because he was invited to their children's wedding. He also informs my fiancé that he has been saving up for his son's wedding day and is offering thousands of dollars to our budget.
We my fiancé tries to explain that we already have found a reception hall with build-in caterer (the wedding is now only 6 months away) and that the caterer imposes a max 45 guest limit, he replied with "Well, that's what the money I'm contributing is for. You can find another caterer!"
I know 5 guests doesn't seem like a lot but it will greatly complicate the organisation (I thought we were almost done with all the big item stuff). I don't want to be ungrateful for the money he is offering but honestly my fiancé and I were never counting on our parents contributing when we were planning this all out. I would rather have no money and have the freedom to plan the wedding we want!
Long story short, is there a tactful way to explain to his father that we would prefer to keep our guest list down the the 45 original invitees (my fiancé would be the one to talk to him, not me, by the way)?
We asked for a quote for the reception hall, the price is within our budget. All is on a roll . . . and then my fiancé's dad calls saying he is going to invite 5 guests because he was invited to their children's wedding. He also informs my fiancé that he has been saving up for his son's wedding day and is offering thousands of dollars to our budget.
We my fiancé tries to explain that we already have found a reception hall with build-in caterer (the wedding is now only 6 months away) and that the caterer imposes a max 45 guest limit, he replied with "Well, that's what the money I'm contributing is for. You can find another caterer!"
I know 5 guests doesn't seem like a lot but it will greatly complicate the organisation (I thought we were almost done with all the big item stuff). I don't want to be ungrateful for the money he is offering but honestly my fiancé and I were never counting on our parents contributing when we were planning this all out. I would rather have no money and have the freedom to plan the wedding we want!
Long story short, is there a tactful way to explain to his father that we would prefer to keep our guest list down the the 45 original invitees (my fiancé would be the one to talk to him, not me, by the way)?
"Thanks but no thanks, Dad. We appreciate the offer but this is what we've agreed upon and we're not able to change it. We love you and look forward to seeing just you at our wedding."
posted by Hermione Granger at 12:44 PM on August 17, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by Hermione Granger at 12:44 PM on August 17, 2015 [10 favorites]
This is like the perfect situation to trot out the old metafilter favorite, "I'm sorry, it won't be possible." It's true! It's not possible, given that you have a caterer who cannot accommodate this request. Tell him it's not about the money, it's just not possible to invite any more people. And - most importantly - have your fiance communicate this to his own father by himself. You don't want to open the door to being branded the bad guy here with your future father-in-law.
posted by something something at 12:45 PM on August 17, 2015 [30 favorites]
posted by something something at 12:45 PM on August 17, 2015 [30 favorites]
I was in basically the same situation when I got married: small venue, limited parking, very small guest list, and so my parents paid for a second reception the next day and invited all their friends. It kind of sucked to have to go to two receptions, one of which was all people I barely knew, but it solved the problem.
posted by Huck500 at 12:45 PM on August 17, 2015 [11 favorites]
posted by Huck500 at 12:45 PM on August 17, 2015 [11 favorites]
Are you 100% sure that all 45 of your guests will come? I think that inviting 50 to yield 45 attendees should be fine, since it's unlikely every single person you invite will attend.
posted by Aizkolari at 12:45 PM on August 17, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by Aizkolari at 12:45 PM on August 17, 2015 [8 favorites]
"Thanks so much for your offer of contributing. Of course we can't accept because we don't have enough room at our reception for any guests beyond those on our own list of invitees. Sadly, we cannot include your additional guests. We'd love to meet your friends at some future occasion -- perhaps we could arrange a group dinner for some later date?"
posted by bearwife at 12:47 PM on August 17, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by bearwife at 12:47 PM on August 17, 2015 [8 favorites]
Response by poster: 42 of guests are 100% for sure coming. Since we are only inviting family and close friends, there is a good chance that everyone invited will come. At any rate, I don't want to end up in a situation were 49 people RSVP and the caterer has a hard limit at 45 guests.
posted by Blissful at 12:52 PM on August 17, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Blissful at 12:52 PM on August 17, 2015 [2 favorites]
I refused to take money from any relatives for my wedding so that I would be free to make my own decisions When my father-in-law pulled something similar, I was so happy to be able to tell him "no" with no feeling of obligation.
posted by Squeak Attack at 12:53 PM on August 17, 2015 [28 favorites]
posted by Squeak Attack at 12:53 PM on August 17, 2015 [28 favorites]
I got married in my hometown. We also had a reception at my parents house right after the wedding.That way my parents could invite as many co-workers, bridge partners, golf buddies as they wanted while allow us the keep the actual wedding very intimate. (and I would sell to your FIL as allowing him to invite more people who will want to share in this special occasion)
I thought it was fun because I knew a lot of these people.My father (who rarely drinks but also got married in his wife's hometown) advised my fiancé to have a stiff drink before hand. As bonus, most of the people who came to reception also gave us wedding presents but mostly we were happy to do because it made my parents happy to meet their social obligations.
posted by metahawk at 12:55 PM on August 17, 2015 [5 favorites]
I thought it was fun because I knew a lot of these people.My father (who rarely drinks but also got married in his wife's hometown) advised my fiancé to have a stiff drink before hand. As bonus, most of the people who came to reception also gave us wedding presents but mostly we were happy to do because it made my parents happy to meet their social obligations.
posted by metahawk at 12:55 PM on August 17, 2015 [5 favorites]
The answer is basically that you turn down the money and keep your freedom to do what you like. "We really appreciate that you've offered to help with the wedding costs, but the cost of the additional guests isn't the issue. We have already committed to this venue (whether that's via deposit or just because you really, really like it can be left unsaid) and that's the capacity of the venue. It simply isn't possible to add more people."
posted by jacquilynne at 12:57 PM on August 17, 2015 [46 favorites]
posted by jacquilynne at 12:57 PM on August 17, 2015 [46 favorites]
ps If you take his money, one strategy is to be very clear what you are going to use it for. Maybe the bar bill (especially if alcohol is important to him and not so much for you) or the photographer. This lets you so "Oh no, we were going to use your money for xx but of course we understand it is a gift, you don't want to pay for that, we will just have to adjust the budget and figure out how to cover it ourself." That opens the door to let him have an opinion about what he paying for but limits the scope of it. of course, if you were planning to pay for it yourself and don't want to deal with him at all, you are free to refuse the gift.
posted by metahawk at 1:00 PM on August 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by metahawk at 1:00 PM on August 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
My in-laws had a large social circle and similarly wanted to reciprocate invitations they'd received to their friends' kids' weddings. My husband and I chose a venue that was meaningful to us (our college chapel) and that couldn't accommodate that large a guest list. Plus, my parents didn't have a similar social circle, so adding all those guests from just one "side" would have affected the overall feel of the event significantly.
Our solution was for my in-laws to host an "engagement party" for us about a month or two before the wedding, to which they invited all their friends. It was essentially another reception (there were decorations, music and cake, everyone congratulated us and brought gifts), but my in-laws planned it just the way they wanted and we just showed up and schmoozed politely with all the people we barely knew.
So, perhaps you can see if your father-in-law would be interested in something similar, where you pitch it as an opportunity for him to use his money to host the party the way he wants. And perhaps the notion of fairness will be persuasive to him (you can't extend the offer to the other parents to invite 5 additional guests each, etc.).
posted by msbubbaclees at 1:21 PM on August 17, 2015 [14 favorites]
Our solution was for my in-laws to host an "engagement party" for us about a month or two before the wedding, to which they invited all their friends. It was essentially another reception (there were decorations, music and cake, everyone congratulated us and brought gifts), but my in-laws planned it just the way they wanted and we just showed up and schmoozed politely with all the people we barely knew.
So, perhaps you can see if your father-in-law would be interested in something similar, where you pitch it as an opportunity for him to use his money to host the party the way he wants. And perhaps the notion of fairness will be persuasive to him (you can't extend the offer to the other parents to invite 5 additional guests each, etc.).
posted by msbubbaclees at 1:21 PM on August 17, 2015 [14 favorites]
Best answer: I just got married. First, I strongly advise against banking on "some people not showing up"--plan as if every single person will attend. Also, the number one best decision we made was to pay for the whole shebang itself. We got to maintain total control, which was so great because we got to choose vendors we really liked and we ended up with a wedding that felt very much "by us, for us". One other thing you could try--if the pragmatic "this will screw with the logistics" angle of isn't working--is what we said when family tried to buy their way into adding extra people: "It's actually not all about the money--we feel very strongly about having a small, intimate wedding, and it's important to us that everyone there is someone close to us who has had a real role in our lives. It would make us a bit uncomfortable to see unknown faces in the crowd". Use your best judgement as to whether that will make more of an impact than just making it a matter of money and/or space, but it worked well for us.
posted by lovableiago at 1:24 PM on August 17, 2015 [17 favorites]
posted by lovableiago at 1:24 PM on August 17, 2015 [17 favorites]
Nthing that you should tell the father in law "no" to the money and no to the extra guests. Some people will take a kind no for an answer and others will fight to the death to get their way.
It's your wedding, you're doing the planning and it's your choice. There are, I'm sure, hundreds of people who you know, or who know family members or whose weddings you've been to that you could invite. None of that matters, because at the end of the day, it should be your choice, not his.
I see it as a setting a precedent for your relationship with these people. If it's a fight, it's a fight. He should be very clear that you can't be either bought or pushed around. Like the others said, do it in the nicest way possible. But don't let yourself be bullied.
posted by cnc at 1:51 PM on August 17, 2015 [12 favorites]
It's your wedding, you're doing the planning and it's your choice. There are, I'm sure, hundreds of people who you know, or who know family members or whose weddings you've been to that you could invite. None of that matters, because at the end of the day, it should be your choice, not his.
I see it as a setting a precedent for your relationship with these people. If it's a fight, it's a fight. He should be very clear that you can't be either bought or pushed around. Like the others said, do it in the nicest way possible. But don't let yourself be bullied.
posted by cnc at 1:51 PM on August 17, 2015 [12 favorites]
Money that comes with strings attached is not worth the paper it's printed on. Turn down his money and politely turn away his "guests". This is your wedding. You are the one who invites the guests, not your fiance's father. This is nothing more than a power play, and now is the time to put your foot down. If you give in to him before you're married, you will only set yourself up for a lifetime of giving in to him. This is where you need to draw your line in the sand and take your stand.
posted by MildredMakenpace at 1:54 PM on August 17, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by MildredMakenpace at 1:54 PM on August 17, 2015 [10 favorites]
Yeah, please don't feel bad about telling them no, or feel that you owe them an elaborate explanation. It's weird and rude to imagine that you can invite guests to somebody else's party, even if it's just a regular party. This--
>"Well, that's what the money I'm contributing is for. You can find another caterer!"
--is WAY out of line. "We'll be picking the guests and the caterer ourselves," is as much as needs to be said, and you shouldn't even have to say that.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 1:58 PM on August 17, 2015 [15 favorites]
>"Well, that's what the money I'm contributing is for. You can find another caterer!"
--is WAY out of line. "We'll be picking the guests and the caterer ourselves," is as much as needs to be said, and you shouldn't even have to say that.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 1:58 PM on August 17, 2015 [15 favorites]
Best answer: In this situation, I would turn down the money but also be open to doing a second reception/engagement party/etc. at a separate time if that's logistically possible (which the in-laws would plan and pay for). I think it also helps to give your future father-in-law specific language to communicate to his friends. He is probably embarassed because he attended their children's weddings, and it feels rude to him not to reciprocate the invitation. Giving him a clear explanation to communicate to his friends - something like "It was really important to Blissful and Mr. Blissful to have a very small, intimate ceremony" or whatever your reasons were may help a lot. Plus being open to meeting/hanging out with/celebrating with these folks on another occasion, so they don't feel slighted.
Someone above mentioned making sure your fiance is the one to communicate all this. I think that's a good idea, but depending on everyone's relationship, it might not be a bad thing to have you be the "bad guy" on this (if his parents really like you). I found that using my fiance as a "scapegoat" for certain things was actually really useful before the wedding, because my parents ADORE him and all I needed to say was "You know, I understand where you're coming from about wanting to go with X vendor, but Mr. Rainbowbrite feels more strongly about this particular aspect of the wedding than any of us and I want to make sure he feels comfortable with this vendor." They totally ate it up because they are used to bickering with me over things but wouldn't dream of fighting with my now-husband who they want to make a good impression on. :) Of course, your family dynamics may differ, but just something to think about. One way to approach this might be from the angle of "We've talked, and it's important to both of us but especially to Blissful to have a small, intimate wedding." This could especially work if you are a bride (not 100% sure of genders here) -- but, you could play on gender roles here to some extent to get them to accept this gracefully (even if that's not how you usually roll). Something like "This venue and caterer are the wedding she's always dreamed of!" etc. Sorta yucky but could get the job done...
posted by rainbowbrite at 2:03 PM on August 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
Someone above mentioned making sure your fiance is the one to communicate all this. I think that's a good idea, but depending on everyone's relationship, it might not be a bad thing to have you be the "bad guy" on this (if his parents really like you). I found that using my fiance as a "scapegoat" for certain things was actually really useful before the wedding, because my parents ADORE him and all I needed to say was "You know, I understand where you're coming from about wanting to go with X vendor, but Mr. Rainbowbrite feels more strongly about this particular aspect of the wedding than any of us and I want to make sure he feels comfortable with this vendor." They totally ate it up because they are used to bickering with me over things but wouldn't dream of fighting with my now-husband who they want to make a good impression on. :) Of course, your family dynamics may differ, but just something to think about. One way to approach this might be from the angle of "We've talked, and it's important to both of us but especially to Blissful to have a small, intimate wedding." This could especially work if you are a bride (not 100% sure of genders here) -- but, you could play on gender roles here to some extent to get them to accept this gracefully (even if that's not how you usually roll). Something like "This venue and caterer are the wedding she's always dreamed of!" etc. Sorta yucky but could get the job done...
posted by rainbowbrite at 2:03 PM on August 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
Can you clarify if you are taking the money?
posted by J. Wilson at 2:04 PM on August 17, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by J. Wilson at 2:04 PM on August 17, 2015 [2 favorites]
Long story short, is there a tactful way to explain to his father that we would prefer to keep our guest list down the the 45 original invitees (my fiancé would be the one to talk to him, not me, by the way)?
Don't state it as a preference--it isn't! It's against your venue's policies. If you suspect he might do something as rude and absurd and possibly not even feasible as tell you to move the entire wedding (and my money's on "he will"), simply say you've paid your deposits and the venue is non-refundably booked, and that you are very sorry you did not know about his guests sooner but as it stands, it will not be possible.
You can be as apologetic as you like, and bemoan the sad state of "weddings these days" and whatnot, or you can just be chipper and polite--either way, as long as you just say "that won't be possible" again and again and again.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 2:11 PM on August 17, 2015 [5 favorites]
Don't state it as a preference--it isn't! It's against your venue's policies. If you suspect he might do something as rude and absurd and possibly not even feasible as tell you to move the entire wedding (and my money's on "he will"), simply say you've paid your deposits and the venue is non-refundably booked, and that you are very sorry you did not know about his guests sooner but as it stands, it will not be possible.
You can be as apologetic as you like, and bemoan the sad state of "weddings these days" and whatnot, or you can just be chipper and polite--either way, as long as you just say "that won't be possible" again and again and again.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 2:11 PM on August 17, 2015 [5 favorites]
I agree with the ideas that your parents use the money they would have given you for the wedding towards their own social gathering/celebration that may or may not be for your marriage. That way they can still invite their friends and colleagues and have control over that and you can still have your small ceremony and reception. I like the idea of an engagement party, as long as it doesn't infer that those invited to the engagement party are ALSO invited to the wedding.
posted by jillithd at 2:16 PM on August 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by jillithd at 2:16 PM on August 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
Miss Manners would say you have to invite the extra guests, for what it's worth. Presumably your father is working under a system of etiquette more like Miss Manners than yours -- in his eyes he's not being rude, though you would be to say no. Of course it's impossible to win with weddings.
posted by crazy with stars at 2:47 PM on August 17, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by crazy with stars at 2:47 PM on August 17, 2015 [3 favorites]
"He who pays gets a say," unfortunately. If he's contributing money to the wedding, he gets input on stuff like that, even though he's being pretty unreasonable. Don't accept any money from him.
Also, just making sure because I've seen this come back to bite people in the butt: does the 45 guests include you and your fiance? And what about your vendors, if you have any (photographer, DJ, etc)? They need to eat too, and your caterer may consider them part of your guest count.
posted by darkchocolatepyramid at 2:57 PM on August 17, 2015 [4 favorites]
Also, just making sure because I've seen this come back to bite people in the butt: does the 45 guests include you and your fiance? And what about your vendors, if you have any (photographer, DJ, etc)? They need to eat too, and your caterer may consider them part of your guest count.
posted by darkchocolatepyramid at 2:57 PM on August 17, 2015 [4 favorites]
I would just like to point out that however you decide to handle this sets up the dynamic for the rest of your marriage. Really think about how you want thing to be as life moves on- how do you and your hubby-to-be want to handle decisions like moving for a job or child rearing? How well (and tactfully) you handle this now has long term ramifications. (I'd lean towards saying no, but offering an alternative like a fancy dinner with the family and extra invitees.)
posted by PorcineWithMe at 3:05 PM on August 17, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by PorcineWithMe at 3:05 PM on August 17, 2015 [8 favorites]
Miss Manners would say you have to invite the extra guests, for what it's worth. Presumably your father is working under a system of etiquette more like Miss Manners than yours -- in his eyes he's not being rude, though you would be to say no. Of course it's impossible to win with weddings.
Wait, what? Why would she say that? The OP is the paying host and the father a guest, Miss Manners has never approved of guests wrangling invites for other guests?
posted by Omnomnom at 3:18 PM on August 17, 2015 [22 favorites]
Wait, what? Why would she say that? The OP is the paying host and the father a guest, Miss Manners has never approved of guests wrangling invites for other guests?
posted by Omnomnom at 3:18 PM on August 17, 2015 [22 favorites]
Miss Manners would say you have to invite the extra guests, for what it's worth.
This is a gross calumny against a very kind and wise woman. Judith Martin has been abundantly clear in her books and columns that guests inviting their own guests to a wedding is a Capital N No-No. And I doubt she would look upon those guests with an any kinder eye if they chose to try to buy their way into the reception. That sort of behavior may be acceptable at a charity gala, but a wedding is not (supposed to be, at least) a fundraiser.
posted by firechicago at 3:28 PM on August 17, 2015 [32 favorites]
This is a gross calumny against a very kind and wise woman. Judith Martin has been abundantly clear in her books and columns that guests inviting their own guests to a wedding is a Capital N No-No. And I doubt she would look upon those guests with an any kinder eye if they chose to try to buy their way into the reception. That sort of behavior may be acceptable at a charity gala, but a wedding is not (supposed to be, at least) a fundraiser.
posted by firechicago at 3:28 PM on August 17, 2015 [32 favorites]
Wait, what? Why would she say that? The OP is the paying host and the father a guest, Miss Manners has never approved of guests wrangling invites for other guests?
You're right in general, but as an exception Miss Manners says you should invite your parent's friends if your parents would like to invite them. E.g. this letter from "... A Surprisingly Dignified Wedding," which asserts:
It is that your case for courtesy seems to be built on the idea that you may blithely omit this woman's [i.e. your future mother-in-law]’s friends from wedding plans that you identify as yours, rather than both families’. Miss Manners is not saying that an exaggerated list cannot be argued down, but that those who are truly close to the family should not be easily dismissed... For the sake of your future family relations she urges you to work out a compromise that will recognize the legitimacy of her wanting to include her friends without harping too much on the unfortunate way she has been trying to accomplish this.
posted by crazy with stars at 3:29 PM on August 17, 2015 [2 favorites]
You're right in general, but as an exception Miss Manners says you should invite your parent's friends if your parents would like to invite them. E.g. this letter from "... A Surprisingly Dignified Wedding," which asserts:
It is that your case for courtesy seems to be built on the idea that you may blithely omit this woman's [i.e. your future mother-in-law]’s friends from wedding plans that you identify as yours, rather than both families’. Miss Manners is not saying that an exaggerated list cannot be argued down, but that those who are truly close to the family should not be easily dismissed... For the sake of your future family relations she urges you to work out a compromise that will recognize the legitimacy of her wanting to include her friends without harping too much on the unfortunate way she has been trying to accomplish this.
posted by crazy with stars at 3:29 PM on August 17, 2015 [2 favorites]
crazy with stars, that case is quite different. In that case the bride was attempting to exclude people from the rehearsal dinner which the Mother-In-Law was hosting in her own home.
posted by firechicago at 3:34 PM on August 17, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by firechicago at 3:34 PM on August 17, 2015 [5 favorites]
Earlier respondents have given you good ways to say "No". I agree that you also should not take the money.
You may also need to set boundaries beyond "saying no" and verbal boundaries here. You need to have a very frank talk with your fiancé about whether or not he will accept this money, and if he won't, how he can get out of the situation without accepting it. For example, will a "we're just giving you this as a wedding gift" amount of money be turned into "but we gave you that for the wedding..."--or will this psychologically or emotionally affect the two of you to where you may not feel able to say no?
If you think it is at all likely that your fiancé's father will go behind your back and invite people anyway, you will need to have a plan to deal with that as well.
And in my unfortunate experience, every single affianced couple should have a talk with vendors, venue, caterer--all the wedding professionals--and give them an explicit list of the people who are allowed to make changes to wedding plans, contracts, etc.
Plus as a logistical note, it sounds like you have already sent out invitations because you know how many people are coming? If not, if you are six months out it is time to send official invitations--I don't know if pulling a fait accompli of "we have already sent the invitations and they are at this venue, and there are no spare invitations" will work. (Unfortunately, this may mean you have to keep your fiancé's parents from any spare copies of invitations.)
Anyway, congratulations on your impending nuptials!
posted by Hypatia at 3:39 PM on August 17, 2015 [2 favorites]
You may also need to set boundaries beyond "saying no" and verbal boundaries here. You need to have a very frank talk with your fiancé about whether or not he will accept this money, and if he won't, how he can get out of the situation without accepting it. For example, will a "we're just giving you this as a wedding gift" amount of money be turned into "but we gave you that for the wedding..."--or will this psychologically or emotionally affect the two of you to where you may not feel able to say no?
If you think it is at all likely that your fiancé's father will go behind your back and invite people anyway, you will need to have a plan to deal with that as well.
And in my unfortunate experience, every single affianced couple should have a talk with vendors, venue, caterer--all the wedding professionals--and give them an explicit list of the people who are allowed to make changes to wedding plans, contracts, etc.
Plus as a logistical note, it sounds like you have already sent out invitations because you know how many people are coming? If not, if you are six months out it is time to send official invitations--I don't know if pulling a fait accompli of "we have already sent the invitations and they are at this venue, and there are no spare invitations" will work. (Unfortunately, this may mean you have to keep your fiancé's parents from any spare copies of invitations.)
Anyway, congratulations on your impending nuptials!
posted by Hypatia at 3:39 PM on August 17, 2015 [2 favorites]
Not to get in a back and forth about this, but Miss Manners is quite clear about the right of parents to invite who they wish to their children's wedding (as opposed to other guests trying to bring a +1). I picked that letter because it bears some similarities to the OP's particular situation, but Miss Manners' general principle doesn't get clear than this quotation, from two pages earlier:
Your marriage will be all about the two of you, although Miss Manners hopes that you will have a warm group of relatives and friends. Your wedding, in contrast, is a civic, optionally religious, ceremonial, social, and family occasion. As a member of your immediate family and nominative hostess of the wedding, your mother should be allowed to invite not only her—also your—relatives, but her own close friends as well.
posted by crazy with stars at 3:41 PM on August 17, 2015 [5 favorites]
Your marriage will be all about the two of you, although Miss Manners hopes that you will have a warm group of relatives and friends. Your wedding, in contrast, is a civic, optionally religious, ceremonial, social, and family occasion. As a member of your immediate family and nominative hostess of the wedding, your mother should be allowed to invite not only her—also your—relatives, but her own close friends as well.
posted by crazy with stars at 3:41 PM on August 17, 2015 [5 favorites]
Some of this may be a miscommunication. Your FIL may think you are only inviting 45 out of poverty, not choice, and want to make things better. The charitable assumption is not that he's trying to bribe you with thousands of dollars into his five invites, but that he is genuinely concerned for you and your fiancé and wants you to add more people, including his five invites.
Honestly it is a little weird for many people to have a wedding without inviting family friends.
posted by corb at 3:55 PM on August 17, 2015 [2 favorites]
Honestly it is a little weird for many people to have a wedding without inviting family friends.
posted by corb at 3:55 PM on August 17, 2015 [2 favorites]
This is your future father in law that you are talking about here. Is it really worth it to start the battle now? Your caterer works for you. Tell them that they need to plan to accommodate extra guests, as you cannot control who shows up and who doesn't. This will increase the price so do accept dad's money. It won't kill you to be a little accommodating. Yes, what he is doing is wrong but he is doing it for the right reasons and trying to make it right by throwing money at you. Only 5 people isn't that big of a deal. Telling your future father in law that he can't invite 5 people will be. Don't put the needs of your caterer ahead of your father in law's. You will only use the caterer once. You will have the father in law in your life for a very long time.
posted by myselfasme at 4:17 PM on August 17, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by myselfasme at 4:17 PM on August 17, 2015 [3 favorites]
Has he already invited them? Because if he has, you aren't saying no, you're telling him he has to dis-invite his close friends to his child's wedding which is both socially embarrassing and emotionally painful, presuming he generally has a good relationship with his child.
If he's already invited these friends, organising a reception for a bigger group of their friends (and your parents also may have people they want to invite to that reception) is a solid work around, because then he can change the invite, not rescind it.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 4:51 PM on August 17, 2015 [4 favorites]
If he's already invited these friends, organising a reception for a bigger group of their friends (and your parents also may have people they want to invite to that reception) is a solid work around, because then he can change the invite, not rescind it.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 4:51 PM on August 17, 2015 [4 favorites]
Don't do an engagement party. If I got an invitation to an engagement party but not to a wedding, I would read it as a grab for presents and a slap in the face.
Tell your dads that you'd love to celebrate with their friends and that the additional offered moneys can go towards this reception event. Your "wedding" is your thing, and the "reception" is this other thing that they can pay for.
posted by fingersandtoes at 7:19 PM on August 17, 2015 [4 favorites]
Tell your dads that you'd love to celebrate with their friends and that the additional offered moneys can go towards this reception event. Your "wedding" is your thing, and the "reception" is this other thing that they can pay for.
posted by fingersandtoes at 7:19 PM on August 17, 2015 [4 favorites]
Best answer: As many others have said, you have every right to say no to both the money and the guests - it is your wedding after all. And the pressure is certainly on with a small venue and hard limit from the caterer.
That said, I'm still in favor of - within reason - inviting the friends of your parents. I came to leave a link to this article, by John Dickerson, which is also in favor of inviting your parents' friends, and supports the position more eloquently than I, but then I started telling a story. My story remains below, but if you're short on time, read John's position and skip my ramblings.
When I got married three years ago, we had a large wedding, about 175 people. Since my dad's immediate family alone accounts for nearly 100, we either eloped or had a large wedding, and my husband wanted a party. Still, I had specifically excluded anyone beyond my first cousins; my paternal grandfather's extended family is tightly connected, but also ridiculously large, and inviting one without inviting all of them - which could have nearly doubled our invite list - seemed impossible. So when my dad announced that he wanted to invite my great-uncle and his wife, who my dad had been close to for most of his life, but had fallen out with about 10 years previously, I balked. I'd already heard so much from my aunts and cousins about how it was unconscionable that I wasn't inviting the whole of the extended family, and it was a can of worms I wanted to keep safely closed. But my dad, who had insisted on nothing else, insisted on this. He wanted fences mended, and thought celebrating my marriage was the safest, simplest way to do so.
At the wedding, I saw my great-uncle and great-aunt only briefly. They caused no scenes, and even my dramatic grandmother, who had precipitated the falling out years earlier, simply ignored them. When I returned from my honeymoon, I learned that they had stayed for hours after my husband and I left, and sat and reconnected with my dad. The fences were mended. That was nice - I'm in favor of people talking with one another. But it really mattered three months later, when my dad landed in the hospital with a raging infection that, after a week, required below-the-knee amputation of his right leg. In the three weeks he spent in the hospital, my great-uncle - a man he hadn't seen for 10 years until just a few months earlier - visited every day, for hours. He was there nearly as often as my mom was, and helped keep my dad's spirits up in a way few others could.
A year later, when I read John's article, it was the paragraph below that really stood out:
"A wedding is a public affirmation of love. You gather your friends and family to celebrate but also to collaborate. This is going to be a long journey. In our case we assumed the people in the audience would be people we could count on throughout our lives: when our children were born, when we turned 50, when we were fired or hired or fell down and needed to be reminded of our best selves. They'd be there when our parents died, and even when death finally did us part. We would surely want them there when our children got married. What we didn’t understand was that allowing our parents to invite their friends was a celebration of continuity and the communal purpose of matrimony we were trying so hard to create ourselves. "
posted by Catenation at 8:31 PM on August 17, 2015 [11 favorites]
That said, I'm still in favor of - within reason - inviting the friends of your parents. I came to leave a link to this article, by John Dickerson, which is also in favor of inviting your parents' friends, and supports the position more eloquently than I, but then I started telling a story. My story remains below, but if you're short on time, read John's position and skip my ramblings.
When I got married three years ago, we had a large wedding, about 175 people. Since my dad's immediate family alone accounts for nearly 100, we either eloped or had a large wedding, and my husband wanted a party. Still, I had specifically excluded anyone beyond my first cousins; my paternal grandfather's extended family is tightly connected, but also ridiculously large, and inviting one without inviting all of them - which could have nearly doubled our invite list - seemed impossible. So when my dad announced that he wanted to invite my great-uncle and his wife, who my dad had been close to for most of his life, but had fallen out with about 10 years previously, I balked. I'd already heard so much from my aunts and cousins about how it was unconscionable that I wasn't inviting the whole of the extended family, and it was a can of worms I wanted to keep safely closed. But my dad, who had insisted on nothing else, insisted on this. He wanted fences mended, and thought celebrating my marriage was the safest, simplest way to do so.
At the wedding, I saw my great-uncle and great-aunt only briefly. They caused no scenes, and even my dramatic grandmother, who had precipitated the falling out years earlier, simply ignored them. When I returned from my honeymoon, I learned that they had stayed for hours after my husband and I left, and sat and reconnected with my dad. The fences were mended. That was nice - I'm in favor of people talking with one another. But it really mattered three months later, when my dad landed in the hospital with a raging infection that, after a week, required below-the-knee amputation of his right leg. In the three weeks he spent in the hospital, my great-uncle - a man he hadn't seen for 10 years until just a few months earlier - visited every day, for hours. He was there nearly as often as my mom was, and helped keep my dad's spirits up in a way few others could.
A year later, when I read John's article, it was the paragraph below that really stood out:
"A wedding is a public affirmation of love. You gather your friends and family to celebrate but also to collaborate. This is going to be a long journey. In our case we assumed the people in the audience would be people we could count on throughout our lives: when our children were born, when we turned 50, when we were fired or hired or fell down and needed to be reminded of our best selves. They'd be there when our parents died, and even when death finally did us part. We would surely want them there when our children got married. What we didn’t understand was that allowing our parents to invite their friends was a celebration of continuity and the communal purpose of matrimony we were trying so hard to create ourselves. "
posted by Catenation at 8:31 PM on August 17, 2015 [11 favorites]
Response by poster: To clarify a few things:
Have you sent out invitations?
No, invitations are not sent out yet. We got engaged 3 weeks ago and want a very quick engagement. We have verbally informed our guest of the wedding for the moment, and again, they are all family or close friends so it is very likely they will all come.
Has your FIL invited his guests already?
No, he has not so saying no would not be forcing him to now disinivite them.
Have you accepted the money?
Well, we haven't rejected it yet explicitly, but my fiancé explained that we were not expecting our parents to give us money and did not need so much.
I would also like to add that I firmly believe that this is not a power play on the part of my FIL. I think it is coming from a place of kindness as well as obliviousness as to why adding 5 guests and more money would complicate our plans and basically put us back to square one on the planning. At this point, my fiancé has told his dad that he will try to see with the caterer if we can negotiate having 5 more people and his dad said he will hold off inviting them until we get an answer on that. Now that my fiancé has explained he said he "didn't want to bother us" but honestly that just makes me/us feel worse. If we had know about the money/guest before figuring out our venue, this would have not have been a problem!
posted by Blissful at 9:35 PM on August 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
Have you sent out invitations?
No, invitations are not sent out yet. We got engaged 3 weeks ago and want a very quick engagement. We have verbally informed our guest of the wedding for the moment, and again, they are all family or close friends so it is very likely they will all come.
Has your FIL invited his guests already?
No, he has not so saying no would not be forcing him to now disinivite them.
Have you accepted the money?
Well, we haven't rejected it yet explicitly, but my fiancé explained that we were not expecting our parents to give us money and did not need so much.
I would also like to add that I firmly believe that this is not a power play on the part of my FIL. I think it is coming from a place of kindness as well as obliviousness as to why adding 5 guests and more money would complicate our plans and basically put us back to square one on the planning. At this point, my fiancé has told his dad that he will try to see with the caterer if we can negotiate having 5 more people and his dad said he will hold off inviting them until we get an answer on that. Now that my fiancé has explained he said he "didn't want to bother us" but honestly that just makes me/us feel worse. If we had know about the money/guest before figuring out our venue, this would have not have been a problem!
posted by Blissful at 9:35 PM on August 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
Best answer: It is your wedding. If you're paying for everything, it's your choice, end of story. I'm sure your fiancé will find a way to explain to his father that you want a small wedding. Your father's friends should understand this. And of course you should turn down the money in this case.
BUT.
The thing I regret most about my wedding is not letting my mother invite more of her friends. It would have meant a lot to her. At the time, the venue and catering limits were important to me. In the long term, my mother's feelings are much more important. I don't know how long you've known your future FIL, but your relationship with him over your life with your fiancé is a consideration here. Parents look forward to celebrating their children's weddings with their friends. It's a happy, touching, proud moment when your kid starts a new nuclear family with a spouse. If these friends are out-of-towners, they likely won't come but will be thrilled to get an invitation and to be able to send you their well-wishes. (If they live close, it's obviously a different story.)
Congratulations on your marriage.
posted by Pearl928 at 10:34 PM on August 17, 2015 [5 favorites]
BUT.
The thing I regret most about my wedding is not letting my mother invite more of her friends. It would have meant a lot to her. At the time, the venue and catering limits were important to me. In the long term, my mother's feelings are much more important. I don't know how long you've known your future FIL, but your relationship with him over your life with your fiancé is a consideration here. Parents look forward to celebrating their children's weddings with their friends. It's a happy, touching, proud moment when your kid starts a new nuclear family with a spouse. If these friends are out-of-towners, they likely won't come but will be thrilled to get an invitation and to be able to send you their well-wishes. (If they live close, it's obviously a different story.)
Congratulations on your marriage.
posted by Pearl928 at 10:34 PM on August 17, 2015 [5 favorites]
I am really surprised by most of the answers in this thread. In my family and culture (raised by Midwesterners in Texas, have lived on both coasts and now settled in the Bay Area) saying no to a request like this would be very rude. Heartless, even! This is a major event in this man's life; his son is getting married! He literally bathed and diapered and fed and educated and housed this human for 18 years, and now his son is starting his own family and there will be a party to come together as a community and joining of families. How could your fiancé possibly not encourage his dad to invite his friends to celebrate with him???! I am pretty much flabbergasted.
Assuming your fiancé is not estranged from his parents, of COURSE he would sit down with them to go over the guests they would like to invite (and I'd imagine it would be more than 5). And you should do the same with yours.
This is a major life event for your parents! They need and want to celebrate with their friends!! When you were an impossible toddler/tween/college student, those are the people they called to vent and share stories with. The very fact that you made it this far is due to your parents and their support network.
Look at the list of friends you want to invite. Don't you want them there in 35 years when your first child is getting married and you are weepy and teary and entering the next phase of life?
This is in many ways a celebration of the end of child-rearing for your father-in-law. You should embrace that. I can't believe you are planning this wedding without including both sets of parents.
posted by amaire at 11:47 PM on August 17, 2015 [8 favorites]
Assuming your fiancé is not estranged from his parents, of COURSE he would sit down with them to go over the guests they would like to invite (and I'd imagine it would be more than 5). And you should do the same with yours.
This is a major life event for your parents! They need and want to celebrate with their friends!! When you were an impossible toddler/tween/college student, those are the people they called to vent and share stories with. The very fact that you made it this far is due to your parents and their support network.
Look at the list of friends you want to invite. Don't you want them there in 35 years when your first child is getting married and you are weepy and teary and entering the next phase of life?
This is in many ways a celebration of the end of child-rearing for your father-in-law. You should embrace that. I can't believe you are planning this wedding without including both sets of parents.
posted by amaire at 11:47 PM on August 17, 2015 [8 favorites]
I have to say although I completely sympathise with the OP's situation and usually believe "it's your wedding, do what you want", when it comes to the guest list I am a little surprised that you didn't include the parents in creating the list. Perhaps it's just my own culture speaking here but I considered our wedding a family celebration, not just about the two of us. And as such we asked our families if there were any close family friends that they think we should invite. They didn't monopolise the list, but we had a few additions that meant a lot to them. I'm not trying to make you feel guilty with this, I'm just saying I think people are being a bit overly harsh about being protective with the list.
We got married in the UK where there is a very normal custom of having "evening guests", people who are invited to arrive for the reception party, after the meal. This was about 5 couples and all friends of my in-laws. No catering impact (well not much, we added a few more sausage rolls to the evening buffet) and at that point of the day we think more the merrier and I made a special point of greeting them and having a few minutes chat so they didn't feel too out of it. I know it's not really custom in the states, but is there any possibility that could an option for you guys?
posted by like_neon at 1:30 AM on August 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
We got married in the UK where there is a very normal custom of having "evening guests", people who are invited to arrive for the reception party, after the meal. This was about 5 couples and all friends of my in-laws. No catering impact (well not much, we added a few more sausage rolls to the evening buffet) and at that point of the day we think more the merrier and I made a special point of greeting them and having a few minutes chat so they didn't feel too out of it. I know it's not really custom in the states, but is there any possibility that could an option for you guys?
posted by like_neon at 1:30 AM on August 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
Not disagreeing in general, planning a wedding can be tricky and starting over with a new venue might suck, BUT one thing I always keep in mind is that parent’s friends/co-workers have a very asymmetrical relationship with me.
IE My daughter is almost 4, my friends and co-workers have known her that whole time, she very important to them and holds a special place in their lives, but if she stopped seeing them in the next few years…. She won’t remember them at all but they’ll remember her forever.
The same is true with my parent’s friends who I invited to my wedding after prompting because I didn’t think of it. They might be people I only passingly knew but they knew everything about me. As I said: asymmetrical.
posted by French Fry at 6:12 AM on August 18, 2015 [3 favorites]
IE My daughter is almost 4, my friends and co-workers have known her that whole time, she very important to them and holds a special place in their lives, but if she stopped seeing them in the next few years…. She won’t remember them at all but they’ll remember her forever.
The same is true with my parent’s friends who I invited to my wedding after prompting because I didn’t think of it. They might be people I only passingly knew but they knew everything about me. As I said: asymmetrical.
posted by French Fry at 6:12 AM on August 18, 2015 [3 favorites]
Best answer: Reading your follow-up, Blissful, your fiance's father sounds like he's being more reasonable than he first seemed - it sounds more like he is asking if he can invite his friends rather than insisting that he's entitled to do so because of money or whatever. Honestly, it seems like you guys are doing everything right here - you're not making promises but are making a good-faith effort to check with the caterer. If the caterer stands firm at 45, I think it's perfectly reasonable for your husband to explain that switching venues and caterers at this point would - as you say - require you to start at square one all over again in your planning, and that as grateful as you are for the offer of financial assistance, you will be turning it down and staying with the place already chosen so you can move ahead with your preparations. Heck, what happens if you change everything and then none of those five people show up?
For whatever it's worth, I, too, would not be okay with changing my wedding plans to accommodate 5 people who were not part of my or my wife's circle. We did invite my mother's best friend to our wedding, but that was because she and I are also friends, even if it's through my mom. The thought of any of my mom's other friends being at the wedding - even though I am on friendly acquaintances terms with them - just seems uncomfortable. ESPECIALLY if that meant changing the venue, caterer, and everything after we'd already worked through that part of the planning. Different cultures, different expectations, I suppose - but you're certainly fine in having your wedding in the venue you want it at (and at establishing the tone and intimacy levels you want), and I think you can communicate this to your father-in-law in a loving way.
posted by DingoMutt at 6:43 AM on August 18, 2015 [2 favorites]
For whatever it's worth, I, too, would not be okay with changing my wedding plans to accommodate 5 people who were not part of my or my wife's circle. We did invite my mother's best friend to our wedding, but that was because she and I are also friends, even if it's through my mom. The thought of any of my mom's other friends being at the wedding - even though I am on friendly acquaintances terms with them - just seems uncomfortable. ESPECIALLY if that meant changing the venue, caterer, and everything after we'd already worked through that part of the planning. Different cultures, different expectations, I suppose - but you're certainly fine in having your wedding in the venue you want it at (and at establishing the tone and intimacy levels you want), and I think you can communicate this to your father-in-law in a loving way.
posted by DingoMutt at 6:43 AM on August 18, 2015 [2 favorites]
Another voice to the minority that thinks parents are probably more important than that picture perfect wedding. I do t remember the food at my wedding (though it was apparently good), or the flowers, or Pinteresty details , but I remember the expressions on my parents' faces, and how happy they were to share the day with me. Part of that sharing meant having their friends around. Weddings are not showcases if the couple's special interests or red carpet events, and trust me, the stuff that you find important now won't matter as much the day after the wedding, and you'll feel terrible if you notice that your parents felt offended or hurt.
posted by redlines at 6:43 AM on August 18, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by redlines at 6:43 AM on August 18, 2015 [5 favorites]
What a generous offer. Thank you so much. We really want to stick to our small venue and small guest list. But we can see that you'd like to reciprocate with your friends. Maybe you'd like to host an engagement party, or a separate party after we're married?
I think it's considered okay to invite people to an engagement party but not the wedding.
Sounds like everybody has a loving approach, but weddings have a ton of cultural and social baggage.
posted by theora55 at 9:12 AM on August 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think it's considered okay to invite people to an engagement party but not the wedding.
Sounds like everybody has a loving approach, but weddings have a ton of cultural and social baggage.
posted by theora55 at 9:12 AM on August 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
Given your update, I think you should talk it out and be willing to budge on this. It sounds like you went from engaged to "things are booked!" in just a few weeks and without consulting parents at all? Obviously that's your prerogative (it's your wedding/your life), but assuming you have a good relationship with your parents/in laws and want to keep having a good relationship with them, it's a bit odd to keep them completely out of the loop like this. It sounds like things are moving at a really fast pace ... I'm not sure your reasons for doing this, but it really is okay to slow down just a bit and talk things through with loved ones. That doesn't mean you don't get the final say, but why not at least consider everyone's feelings/desires? It sounds like you wouldn't have minded adding the extra guests if you'd known earlier -- so why didn't you ask? At the very least, now is a good time to loop in all the parents and see how everyone is feeling about things going forward.
On the guest list thing -- while it's possible everyone will be able to attend, I will just warn you that it is HARD to get 45 people in a room at the same time, no matter how much they love you (and even if they have RSVPed yes)! A lot can change in 7 months. In our case, we had one of our closest friends miss because her brother was getting married the same weekend, and another because her doctor put her on bedrest during that portion of her pregnancy. Sometimes it's not about how close people are, but just when you're talking about a large group, life does get in the way through no fault of anyone. I understand not wanting to risk it if the limit with the caterer really is that strict, but just keep it in mind to avoid future disappointment! (And yes - as someone mentioned above, please don't forget that all of your vendors will need to eat as well!)
posted by rainbowbrite at 10:02 AM on August 18, 2015 [5 favorites]
On the guest list thing -- while it's possible everyone will be able to attend, I will just warn you that it is HARD to get 45 people in a room at the same time, no matter how much they love you (and even if they have RSVPed yes)! A lot can change in 7 months. In our case, we had one of our closest friends miss because her brother was getting married the same weekend, and another because her doctor put her on bedrest during that portion of her pregnancy. Sometimes it's not about how close people are, but just when you're talking about a large group, life does get in the way through no fault of anyone. I understand not wanting to risk it if the limit with the caterer really is that strict, but just keep it in mind to avoid future disappointment! (And yes - as someone mentioned above, please don't forget that all of your vendors will need to eat as well!)
posted by rainbowbrite at 10:02 AM on August 18, 2015 [5 favorites]
Hey theora55, i don't think it's considered okay to invite people to an engagement party who aren't going to be invited to the wedding, unless they've already said they can't make the wedding.
posted by Pearl928 at 10:04 AM on August 18, 2015
posted by Pearl928 at 10:04 AM on August 18, 2015
I'm one more voice in the 'is there anyway you can accommodate him? group. The biggest fight of our wedding experience was with my parents about adding extra friends and cousins. I put my foot down hard because it was our wedding and I didn't want them (same situation - small venue, they offered to pay). My parents were understanding and kind, but I realized later how much it meant to them to be able to celebrate their daughter with the people they love. We made the extra people work, and I'm glad that I compromised. It was important to them and turned out fine for us.
posted by oryelle at 11:23 AM on August 18, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by oryelle at 11:23 AM on August 18, 2015 [2 favorites]
is this going to open the door to any of your other parents wanting to invite "extras'? Because if you just barely manage to make 50 work, what will happen when another parent says "you let BOB invite FIVE of his friends, why can't I invite Suzy from work??"
(not to say you shouldn't do it, but just... I would be very, very sure that your parents aren't the type to make power plays in this way, or that none of your other parents also have dear friends they'd like to invite).
Invite lists are crazy and fraught with peril no matter how small/large you get. I would just beware that there is no good way to let one parent invite five friends and then close the door on any others. Either all parents invite friends, or none do.
posted by nakedmolerats at 11:46 AM on August 18, 2015
(not to say you shouldn't do it, but just... I would be very, very sure that your parents aren't the type to make power plays in this way, or that none of your other parents also have dear friends they'd like to invite).
Invite lists are crazy and fraught with peril no matter how small/large you get. I would just beware that there is no good way to let one parent invite five friends and then close the door on any others. Either all parents invite friends, or none do.
posted by nakedmolerats at 11:46 AM on August 18, 2015
I also suggest that you find out the reasoning behind the caterer's 45-person limit. I strongly suspect it's a fire safety issue, and no reputable vendor will allow you to plan a wedding that could get shut down by the fire marshal; in that case you would need to consider changing your venue to accommodate further guests.
posted by Hypatia at 1:36 PM on August 18, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Hypatia at 1:36 PM on August 18, 2015 [3 favorites]
When my wife's mom and my mom began trying to increase the guest list with their friends, I put my foot down and said that this wedding was not about them. This was mine and my wife's day. My mom said, "Well, I want someone to talk to." I told her that she could be away from her friends for the three hours it would take for the wedding and reception.
The "obliviousness" you referenced in your follow up is something to watch out for. If he can't see why inconveniencing you on such an important day is such a big deal, then I'm sure he will try to make you do other things in the future to accommodate him. It may not be a power play on his part, but it does show some lack of self awareness and a failure to appreciate the consequences of his actions on others.
posted by reenum at 5:08 PM on August 18, 2015 [3 favorites]
The "obliviousness" you referenced in your follow up is something to watch out for. If he can't see why inconveniencing you on such an important day is such a big deal, then I'm sure he will try to make you do other things in the future to accommodate him. It may not be a power play on his part, but it does show some lack of self awareness and a failure to appreciate the consequences of his actions on others.
posted by reenum at 5:08 PM on August 18, 2015 [3 favorites]
Some of the rules about allowing your parents to invite people to the wedding undoubtedly were from when the parents paid for it.
If you pay for it then you set the guest list.
posted by winna at 11:00 AM on August 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
If you pay for it then you set the guest list.
posted by winna at 11:00 AM on August 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:43 PM on August 17, 2015 [48 favorites]