self-defense against tweens
September 20, 2005 11:02 AM Subscribe
Five or more 11-12 year-old boys approach and surround you in a threatening way. How do you handle it? If they choose to attack, then what?
I think we need to know more about you, hellbient. Are you a woman or a man, for example? That will change the answer this question considerably. How old are you? What kind of shape are you in?
posted by crapples at 11:14 AM on September 20, 2005
posted by crapples at 11:14 AM on September 20, 2005
If life worked like the movies you would pick the leader out and tell him that everybody had better start walking away, "if there is any funny stuff - you die."
posted by caddis at 11:16 AM on September 20, 2005
posted by caddis at 11:16 AM on September 20, 2005
Kids that age can be pretty impressionable, but might generally see adults as all being 'enemies' by default. I'd attempt to win them over by demonstrating how cool and streetwise I was, winning their respect by treating them as equals. They'll respond best if you can show that you can relate to them as people, not just as 'stupid kids'. Engage them intelectually, using the powers of reason. Treating them as little criminals perpetuates the cycle of crime and violence. Maybe they just need a father figure! You could be that man. If they still choose to attack, then the chances are I could outrun them. I have long legs.
klangklangston, you'd beat the hell out of kids? Your friend actually did beat the hell out of some kids? Way to go, that's awesome.
posted by nylon at 11:22 AM on September 20, 2005
klangklangston, you'd beat the hell out of kids? Your friend actually did beat the hell out of some kids? Way to go, that's awesome.
posted by nylon at 11:22 AM on September 20, 2005
The smart thing to do is run - even kids can have knives or other weapons, and regardless of your strength, size, or skill, five 12 year-olds with weapons means that you are probably dead.
Sorry for the boring, safe answer. :/
posted by Optimus Chyme at 11:23 AM on September 20, 2005
Sorry for the boring, safe answer. :/
posted by Optimus Chyme at 11:23 AM on September 20, 2005
Response by poster: I'm a tall guy, 35yo. I'm in okay shape. I've been described as mild-mannered.
posted by hellbient at 11:24 AM on September 20, 2005
posted by hellbient at 11:24 AM on September 20, 2005
The only thing a 12 year old boy truly understands is imminent pain.
Taught me not to throw snowballs at the snow-plow drivers...
posted by SweetJesus at 11:24 AM on September 20, 2005 [1 favorite]
Taught me not to throw snowballs at the snow-plow drivers...
posted by SweetJesus at 11:24 AM on September 20, 2005 [1 favorite]
run. always try to escape fights, always always always. because you could get hurt really bad, or/and hurt others really bad. also, you'd be seriously outnumbered. and maybe, as others said, they're armed. run. or give up your wallet if that's what they want.
because if they attack and you really cannot run, you'll have to fight as hard as you can. just run.
posted by matteo at 11:27 AM on September 20, 2005
because if they attack and you really cannot run, you'll have to fight as hard as you can. just run.
posted by matteo at 11:27 AM on September 20, 2005
Like Matteo said - run. The purpose of my particular self-defense school (Krav Maga) is to teach us how to get away, and get to safety. Unless you're a cop or a bodyguard, you have the privelage of being a (probably) unarmed civilian. Especially against multiple opponents, the best is to fight them off if necessary, and get the hell away
posted by kalimac at 11:32 AM on September 20, 2005
posted by kalimac at 11:32 AM on September 20, 2005
Option A-Run away.
Option B-Pick the one that looks like the leader or the biggest one, and beat on him as if your life depended on it, which means try to kill him.
Pick option A if at all possible, else consider yourself dead, and try to take one of the little fuckers with you. Bonus if you can take two with you.
posted by MrMulan at 11:33 AM on September 20, 2005
Option B-Pick the one that looks like the leader or the biggest one, and beat on him as if your life depended on it, which means try to kill him.
Pick option A if at all possible, else consider yourself dead, and try to take one of the little fuckers with you. Bonus if you can take two with you.
posted by MrMulan at 11:33 AM on September 20, 2005
Depends on whether there is a reasonable chance of other people being in the area. If so, then yell like mad hoping to attract their attention. The swarming morons won't stand up to being outnumbered (or even a fair fight).
If no one is around, run like hell. Except I'm about 100% sure they could catch me, as out of shape as I am. Try to run into the most public area I can.
On the other side, if they DO catch me, I can do some serious damage before I go down.
posted by Kickstart70 at 11:34 AM on September 20, 2005
If no one is around, run like hell. Except I'm about 100% sure they could catch me, as out of shape as I am. Try to run into the most public area I can.
On the other side, if they DO catch me, I can do some serious damage before I go down.
posted by Kickstart70 at 11:34 AM on September 20, 2005
This actually happened to me once, a few years ago when I was in grad school.
I was in the student center of my university playing Tekken 3 (as I usually did each day during lunchtime), and a gang of 13-year-olds came in to the place. One of them threw a quarter into the machine and pressed start while I was in the middle of a single-player match (rude, rude, rude--plus I was playing vs. Heihachi, which makes it even worse) and said to me, pointing his fnger in my face, "I'm gonna kick your ass!!" So in a best-of-three match I beat him decisively for the first round, let him win the second, and then used combos to juggle him in the third round so that he lost it without even getting to take a shot at me. The kid screamed "That's not fair!" and he and his gang left the student center.
A few minutes later, when I walked out of the place, the kids were actually laying for me. They made a move to surround me, but I looked a couple of them in the eye, saving their leader for last (the one who'd played Tekken against me) and favoring him with a carefully timed chuckle. (This wasn't calculated in any way, and I didn't feel in danger--after all, they were just kids, and it seemed pretty funny to me at the time.) He backed off, and then the other kids backed off as well.
So I'd say the answer is--
--make eye contact with the kids, one at a time
--look at the person last whom you perceive to be their leader
--make some sort of derisive noise, like a chuckle or snort, that implies, "You couldn't possibly be considering trying to kick my ass, could you? I am, after all, an adult."
posted by Prospero at 11:40 AM on September 20, 2005
I was in the student center of my university playing Tekken 3 (as I usually did each day during lunchtime), and a gang of 13-year-olds came in to the place. One of them threw a quarter into the machine and pressed start while I was in the middle of a single-player match (rude, rude, rude--plus I was playing vs. Heihachi, which makes it even worse) and said to me, pointing his fnger in my face, "I'm gonna kick your ass!!" So in a best-of-three match I beat him decisively for the first round, let him win the second, and then used combos to juggle him in the third round so that he lost it without even getting to take a shot at me. The kid screamed "That's not fair!" and he and his gang left the student center.
A few minutes later, when I walked out of the place, the kids were actually laying for me. They made a move to surround me, but I looked a couple of them in the eye, saving their leader for last (the one who'd played Tekken against me) and favoring him with a carefully timed chuckle. (This wasn't calculated in any way, and I didn't feel in danger--after all, they were just kids, and it seemed pretty funny to me at the time.) He backed off, and then the other kids backed off as well.
So I'd say the answer is--
--make eye contact with the kids, one at a time
--look at the person last whom you perceive to be their leader
--make some sort of derisive noise, like a chuckle or snort, that implies, "You couldn't possibly be considering trying to kick my ass, could you? I am, after all, an adult."
posted by Prospero at 11:40 AM on September 20, 2005
I'd attempt to win them over by demonstrating how cool and streetwise I was, winning their respect by treating them as equals. They'll respond best if you can show that you can relate to them as people, not just as 'stupid kids'. Engage them intelectually, using the powers of reason.
This is a sure-fire ticket toward getting your ass kicked, then made fun of. Note that this is the tactic usually employed by the movie character "the guy who gets pantsed".
I'd look to escape. Pre-teen boys usually aren't strong, but they're fearless and stupid. They're used to getting rough play, and getting banged up is par for the course for them.
posted by mkultra at 11:40 AM on September 20, 2005
This is a sure-fire ticket toward getting your ass kicked, then made fun of. Note that this is the tactic usually employed by the movie character "the guy who gets pantsed".
I'd look to escape. Pre-teen boys usually aren't strong, but they're fearless and stupid. They're used to getting rough play, and getting banged up is par for the course for them.
posted by mkultra at 11:40 AM on September 20, 2005
Wasn't there a thread a while back about how many five year olds you could take on? I can't find it.
posted by Specklet at 11:49 AM on September 20, 2005
posted by Specklet at 11:49 AM on September 20, 2005
As the oldest of four brothers, I have faced three 9-13 year olds at once. Just make sure they don't hit you in the balls and you'll most likely be fine. You don't need to hurt them, just knock them down. They'll probably go berserk and scream and flail and hit you (mostly) harmlessly for a bit if it's a personal thing, but they get tired of it quickly and calm down. If it's more like hoodlum activity, you can expect them to be pretty easy to scare off. You're talking about kids that are just about five feet tall, and weigh about 100 pounds. Yes, they can hurt you, but no, you don't have to try to kill their leader to survive.
posted by Nothing at 11:52 AM on September 20, 2005
posted by Nothing at 11:52 AM on September 20, 2005
(And yes, five or more of them can definitely knock you down. But they can't effectively keep you down. They're not coordinated enough.)
posted by Nothing at 11:55 AM on September 20, 2005
posted by Nothing at 11:55 AM on September 20, 2005
a) Run. They almost certainly won't follow you into, say, a gas station.
b) Pepper spray--it's not just for joggers anymore. All police carry it, because it works like a charm, and is far more effective than a gun when you're dealing with lots of people. And, the effects go away fairly quickly, unlike gunshots. You can order some police grade fogging spray with both pepper spray and CN gas off the net for pretty cheap. With a big enough can, you can easily send thirty 12-year-olds running, coughing, and crying for their moms. For a man of moderate size, you very rarely have to worry about being attacked by less than 2 or 3 people. And the more there are, the less option a) is viable. If you want to really make them suffer, try some Bear Deterrent, which will actually burn the skin. Make sure to point the can away from you.
c) Whip it out and start pissing, all over the place. Pick one--the biggest one--and chase after him. He's going to run, trust me. And the rest will follow. If they want your wallet, take the wallet out, throw it on the ground and piss all over it. In general, this is a bad strategy if they have a gun. Also, it might be a good idea to carry a decoy wallet. There is a small risk that you will not be able to get out of the situation before you run out of pee, in which case you should prepare to be pissed on by five 12-year-old boys.
posted by dsword at 12:01 PM on September 20, 2005 [1 favorite]
b) Pepper spray--it's not just for joggers anymore. All police carry it, because it works like a charm, and is far more effective than a gun when you're dealing with lots of people. And, the effects go away fairly quickly, unlike gunshots. You can order some police grade fogging spray with both pepper spray and CN gas off the net for pretty cheap. With a big enough can, you can easily send thirty 12-year-olds running, coughing, and crying for their moms. For a man of moderate size, you very rarely have to worry about being attacked by less than 2 or 3 people. And the more there are, the less option a) is viable. If you want to really make them suffer, try some Bear Deterrent, which will actually burn the skin. Make sure to point the can away from you.
c) Whip it out and start pissing, all over the place. Pick one--the biggest one--and chase after him. He's going to run, trust me. And the rest will follow. If they want your wallet, take the wallet out, throw it on the ground and piss all over it. In general, this is a bad strategy if they have a gun. Also, it might be a good idea to carry a decoy wallet. There is a small risk that you will not be able to get out of the situation before you run out of pee, in which case you should prepare to be pissed on by five 12-year-old boys.
posted by dsword at 12:01 PM on September 20, 2005 [1 favorite]
Try to somehow kick every single one of them in the junk.
posted by almostcool at 12:02 PM on September 20, 2005
posted by almostcool at 12:02 PM on September 20, 2005
Assuming that there was no escape option, I've got to think that one good punch in the face is going to drop a 12 year old (as it would probably do to me as well). After seeing one of them hit the ground, bleeding from the nose, I can't imagine the others would stick around. Don't know if I would actually test this theory myself however.
posted by Who_Am_I at 12:03 PM on September 20, 2005
posted by Who_Am_I at 12:03 PM on September 20, 2005
Similar tactics would apply as to being surrounded by small, yet voilent, animals, as this is precisely what the young rabid street-scum are.
One benefit you'll have over them is your legs. Adult legs are way stronger than the legs of adolescents, even if you have no arm strength or are unfit. Kids and animals aren't smart enough to realize how to take advantage of someone using their legs, so if trapped you could kick them into submission.
Basically, keep moving, kick hard enough at the stomach or pelvic area (with the intention of winding), and take on one at a time. Start with the biggest and work down. Once the first couple are down or injured, the rest will chicken out.
posted by wackybrit at 12:06 PM on September 20, 2005
One benefit you'll have over them is your legs. Adult legs are way stronger than the legs of adolescents, even if you have no arm strength or are unfit. Kids and animals aren't smart enough to realize how to take advantage of someone using their legs, so if trapped you could kick them into submission.
Basically, keep moving, kick hard enough at the stomach or pelvic area (with the intention of winding), and take on one at a time. Start with the biggest and work down. Once the first couple are down or injured, the rest will chicken out.
posted by wackybrit at 12:06 PM on September 20, 2005
Run. This actually happened to a 24 year old friend of mine a couple of months ago. He was riding his bike home from work and 4 or 5 kids blocked the path, so he stopped. They then proceeded to beat him up. I don't know if he tried to fight back or not, but he's a pretty non-violent person, so I imagine not. Anyway, just because they're kids doesn't mean they can't be tough when there are a lot of them. Be smart and run away in case one of them has a weapon stronger than his fists.
posted by MsMolly at 12:06 PM on September 20, 2005
posted by MsMolly at 12:06 PM on September 20, 2005
Bitch slap. Pick one and haul off and slap him. Slap the piss out of him. Leave a big fat red welt on him. If you can get some ear too that's even better.
posted by Pollomacho at 12:16 PM on September 20, 2005
posted by Pollomacho at 12:16 PM on September 20, 2005
1. Pick out the biggest one and take him down. The others will scatter.
or
2. Offer to buy them beer.
I would probably start with 2 and, if that didn't change the dynamic, revert to 1.
posted by probablysteve at 12:19 PM on September 20, 2005
or
2. Offer to buy them beer.
I would probably start with 2 and, if that didn't change the dynamic, revert to 1.
posted by probablysteve at 12:19 PM on September 20, 2005
Fake a seizure, or poop in your own hand.
posted by thirteenkiller at 12:39 PM on September 20, 2005
posted by thirteenkiller at 12:39 PM on September 20, 2005
Obviously the first answer is talk your way out, I suggest from personal experience say something like "fellas you don't want any of this.." and push past them, but you've got to do that really quickly or you are going to get hit in the back of the head.
The thing you kinda have to understand is that if they are just messing with you for kicks they will back down pretty quickly (this is not the case for older teens and men, but usually for the 11 or 12 year old who are just trying to proove up), if not you cannot just demolish one and the rest will scatter because frankly, they're trying to rob or hurt you.
Other than that and if you really fear for your life*, then fuck one or two up bad and run, pick the biggest one in front of you and hit them so very hard in the nose with a closed fist, then turn around and shove or kick the one directly behind you (fast mind you, fast), then get the hell out there. Change clothes as soon as you get home and clean and bandage any abrasions. Don't return to the immediate area any time soon. If it's an area where you are known and could be identified again, you might want to pre-empt the whole thing by finding a cop and telling them you just got attacked by a bunch of kids. That is going to take a lot of time and suck though.
Don't fight five of anything unless you have specialized martial arts training.
*(cause depending on who/where you are, it's not going to go over to well with johnny Law, no matter who started it)
posted by Divine_Wino at 12:40 PM on September 20, 2005
The thing you kinda have to understand is that if they are just messing with you for kicks they will back down pretty quickly (this is not the case for older teens and men, but usually for the 11 or 12 year old who are just trying to proove up), if not you cannot just demolish one and the rest will scatter because frankly, they're trying to rob or hurt you.
Other than that and if you really fear for your life*, then fuck one or two up bad and run, pick the biggest one in front of you and hit them so very hard in the nose with a closed fist, then turn around and shove or kick the one directly behind you (fast mind you, fast), then get the hell out there. Change clothes as soon as you get home and clean and bandage any abrasions. Don't return to the immediate area any time soon. If it's an area where you are known and could be identified again, you might want to pre-empt the whole thing by finding a cop and telling them you just got attacked by a bunch of kids. That is going to take a lot of time and suck though.
Don't fight five of anything unless you have specialized martial arts training.
*(cause depending on who/where you are, it's not going to go over to well with johnny Law, no matter who started it)
posted by Divine_Wino at 12:40 PM on September 20, 2005
Bitch slap. Pick one and haul off and slap him. Slap the piss out of him. Leave a big fat red welt on him. If you can get some ear too that's even better.
Y'know, that's actually a really good, semi-humane idea. You're more likely to evoke tears with slaps due to the stinging. And if you get the leader crying, the rest will cower down.
posted by wackybrit at 12:41 PM on September 20, 2005
Y'know, that's actually a really good, semi-humane idea. You're more likely to evoke tears with slaps due to the stinging. And if you get the leader crying, the rest will cower down.
posted by wackybrit at 12:41 PM on September 20, 2005
Throw a stack of porno magazines on the ground and run away while they're distracted.
posted by matildaben at 12:55 PM on September 20, 2005
posted by matildaben at 12:55 PM on September 20, 2005
Taunt the biggest kid about how he can't handle himself without his friends.
Then put him in the hospital.
Then hope the police don't come after you.
The bottom line is that it's them or you. If you don't mind being in the hospital, then why post this question?
I'd also carry pepper spray. It won't work on all of them, but it's a start.
posted by ewkpates at 1:00 PM on September 20, 2005
Then put him in the hospital.
Then hope the police don't come after you.
The bottom line is that it's them or you. If you don't mind being in the hospital, then why post this question?
I'd also carry pepper spray. It won't work on all of them, but it's a start.
posted by ewkpates at 1:00 PM on September 20, 2005
If it is a serious situation and you are unprepared with pepper spray, slap, then run. If you get caught or cornered, fight viciously. One thing adults have over (most) kids is an awareness of ways to seriously mess someone up and thus end the fight early. Punching in the stomach, not so much, kicking the knees = instant-down.
That would be my tactic, slap, run, and if caught try to drop the the little shits as quickly and brutally as possible. I'd rather be alive and in possible trouble with the law than beaten to death by human scum. Better yet, leave afterwards and avoid the ugly issue of the law.
Interestingly enough, this was basically the advice of my martial arts instructor, an ex-cop.
posted by Invoke at 1:10 PM on September 20, 2005
That would be my tactic, slap, run, and if caught try to drop the the little shits as quickly and brutally as possible. I'd rather be alive and in possible trouble with the law than beaten to death by human scum. Better yet, leave afterwards and avoid the ugly issue of the law.
Interestingly enough, this was basically the advice of my martial arts instructor, an ex-cop.
posted by Invoke at 1:10 PM on September 20, 2005
Take a statistical average of results from this thread and divide by 2.2 to 2.4 to get a ratio of five-year-olds to 11- and 12-year-olds.
posted by Rothko at 1:14 PM on September 20, 2005
posted by Rothko at 1:14 PM on September 20, 2005
Back in HS when I ran Cross Country, this happened to a fellow runner to a group of us and then a fellow runner who fell behind.
My HS was in a crappy part of town a quarter of a mile down the road, there was an apartment complex. One day out of nowhere, this little gang of like 5 or 6 little Mexican kids come running after us. This wouldn't have been so bad if they didn't go into the bushes and starting chucking empty beer bottles at us. It actually hit one of the runners who had an idea to go back and whoop their asses, but we forced him along. Back at school and freaked out, we realized that one of our fellow teammates had fallen behind to relieve himself. Then, you see him running as I've never seen him run before totally freaked out as the whole little gang, well, ganged up on him.
Of course, the principal found out and if we had retaliated, we would have been at best suspended and possibly expelled, so score one for running!
Also, remember how old they are. Even if you're not in shape, it's usually very easy to outrun a kid unless they're last name is Adu.
And lastly, I wasn't so much freaked out by that accident in particular but moreso about what the kids may have been waiting with for us the next day. These are the same people who followed around the girls' team in a van goggling at them, so I was pretty scared but nothing more ever came it, thankfully.
posted by jmd82 at 1:14 PM on September 20, 2005
My HS was in a crappy part of town a quarter of a mile down the road, there was an apartment complex. One day out of nowhere, this little gang of like 5 or 6 little Mexican kids come running after us. This wouldn't have been so bad if they didn't go into the bushes and starting chucking empty beer bottles at us. It actually hit one of the runners who had an idea to go back and whoop their asses, but we forced him along. Back at school and freaked out, we realized that one of our fellow teammates had fallen behind to relieve himself. Then, you see him running as I've never seen him run before totally freaked out as the whole little gang, well, ganged up on him.
Of course, the principal found out and if we had retaliated, we would have been at best suspended and possibly expelled, so score one for running!
Also, remember how old they are. Even if you're not in shape, it's usually very easy to outrun a kid unless they're last name is Adu.
And lastly, I wasn't so much freaked out by that accident in particular but moreso about what the kids may have been waiting with for us the next day. These are the same people who followed around the girls' team in a van goggling at them, so I was pretty scared but nothing more ever came it, thankfully.
posted by jmd82 at 1:14 PM on September 20, 2005
These are the same people who followed around the girls' team in a van goggling at them, so I was pretty scared but nothing more ever came it, thankfully.
How did little kids drive a van?
posted by Optimus Chyme at 1:21 PM on September 20, 2005
How did little kids drive a van?
posted by Optimus Chyme at 1:21 PM on September 20, 2005
Specklet, you're thinking of this thread in the blue which I recently nominated as my favorite thread of all time.
I think there's a bit of a difference between 5 year olds and 12 year olds in fighting ability though :).
If it were me, I'd do what I could to avoid getting into the situation, but I think that confidence and not a lot of talking will be the most likely thing to stop any confrontation. Talking a lot is going to give them something to latch on, which isn't what you want.
posted by freshgroundpepper at 1:32 PM on September 20, 2005
I think there's a bit of a difference between 5 year olds and 12 year olds in fighting ability though :).
If it were me, I'd do what I could to avoid getting into the situation, but I think that confidence and not a lot of talking will be the most likely thing to stop any confrontation. Talking a lot is going to give them something to latch on, which isn't what you want.
posted by freshgroundpepper at 1:32 PM on September 20, 2005
I grew up in the deep south where the bitch slap is a time honored tradition (in both the white and black communities). I've seen more 13 year old thugs put down into a pile of mush by an old lady and a swift smack for "sass mouth" than by any punch in the nose. I've also seen it used effectively against large guys in avoiding a fight (and I've seen it provoke a fight with more seasoned big guys, but were talking about punk kids here).
Part of the effect I believe is in the swiftness. It's really shocking if done quickly and without warning. Part is the humiliation of the act. It isn't called a bitch slap because it is intended to convey love. Last part, I believe, the fact that it actually hurts in that stinging way that instantly brings tears to the eyes rather than the sort of the dull throb you get from a punch.
posted by Pollomacho at 1:32 PM on September 20, 2005
Part of the effect I believe is in the swiftness. It's really shocking if done quickly and without warning. Part is the humiliation of the act. It isn't called a bitch slap because it is intended to convey love. Last part, I believe, the fact that it actually hurts in that stinging way that instantly brings tears to the eyes rather than the sort of the dull throb you get from a punch.
posted by Pollomacho at 1:32 PM on September 20, 2005
Running only works if you don't think you'll ever see these kids again. If you run and then do see them later, you're in an even tougher situation.
I had a situation with a bunch of black and Hispanic kids that started with them blocking the sidewalk as they were walking to their school in my neighborhood. After they passed--about 11 of them; I had to walk in the street--one of them short-armed an apple at me. It didn't hurt me, but it stung, so I turned around in hard anger and they were all waiting expectantly for something interesting to happen. What worked that time--though maybe it wouldn't again in the future--was the best street language I had and an old Bill Cosby routine about his father and beatings. "I'll knock the black off you! I'll knock you into next Friday. Which one of you pussies threw that? Step up, chump. Let's see the little girl who threw an apple at the white guy. Very tough." And more of the same.
In retrospect, I thought maybe my comments could have been perceived as racist, but nobody I've talked to about it thinks so. I had all of Bill Cosby's albums when I was a kid and listened to them constantly (and had "Wonderfulness" memorized to a word), which seems like the reason his lines came to mind. I did not, fortunately, blurt out "I brought you into this world; I can take you of it."
posted by Mo Nickels at 1:33 PM on September 20, 2005
I had a situation with a bunch of black and Hispanic kids that started with them blocking the sidewalk as they were walking to their school in my neighborhood. After they passed--about 11 of them; I had to walk in the street--one of them short-armed an apple at me. It didn't hurt me, but it stung, so I turned around in hard anger and they were all waiting expectantly for something interesting to happen. What worked that time--though maybe it wouldn't again in the future--was the best street language I had and an old Bill Cosby routine about his father and beatings. "I'll knock the black off you! I'll knock you into next Friday. Which one of you pussies threw that? Step up, chump. Let's see the little girl who threw an apple at the white guy. Very tough." And more of the same.
In retrospect, I thought maybe my comments could have been perceived as racist, but nobody I've talked to about it thinks so. I had all of Bill Cosby's albums when I was a kid and listened to them constantly (and had "Wonderfulness" memorized to a word), which seems like the reason his lines came to mind. I did not, fortunately, blurt out "I brought you into this world; I can take you of it."
posted by Mo Nickels at 1:33 PM on September 20, 2005
...can take you out of it...
posted by Mo Nickels at 1:36 PM on September 20, 2005
posted by Mo Nickels at 1:36 PM on September 20, 2005
Response by poster: smoove, Nickels...the Cosby lines probably resonated with a lot of them because they've heard them or sayings similar to them from their fathers.
posted by hellbient at 2:14 PM on September 20, 2005
posted by hellbient at 2:14 PM on September 20, 2005
Take the money out of your wallet or bag, drop it on the ground, and run the other way as fast as you can, to a public area like a store or gas station. Then, submit a poliece report.
posted by johnj at 2:15 PM on September 20, 2005
posted by johnj at 2:15 PM on September 20, 2005
I like the poop in your hand response. The kids would either be thoroughly repulsed and leave you alone or they'd think you were the coolest guy ever.
I'll echo the Flight first, Fight second responses. Get away if you can, fight if you have to. I think I'd almost certainly laugh at a bunch of kids trying to mug me and I'm not a large guy but I am well strong enough to pick up one of those kids and throw him ten feet away or use him as a club to beat up his friends with.
And pepper spray wouldn't be a bad idea either. Once they're coughing and crying, you can kick each of them square in the nuts.
posted by fenriq at 2:29 PM on September 20, 2005
I'll echo the Flight first, Fight second responses. Get away if you can, fight if you have to. I think I'd almost certainly laugh at a bunch of kids trying to mug me and I'm not a large guy but I am well strong enough to pick up one of those kids and throw him ten feet away or use him as a club to beat up his friends with.
And pepper spray wouldn't be a bad idea either. Once they're coughing and crying, you can kick each of them square in the nuts.
posted by fenriq at 2:29 PM on September 20, 2005
The poop-in-the-hand move has never worked. You'll just end up squirming on the ground with two black eyes and poop on your hand.
posted by horsewithnoname at 2:40 PM on September 20, 2005
posted by horsewithnoname at 2:40 PM on September 20, 2005
Nylon: Hell yes, I'd beat the hell out of 'em. My pal was coming home from a pub sloshed, and had left his buddies for a bit (I think they went somewhere else, but were going to meet up). While he was standing around, four or five kids about 14-years-old came up and started standing around him. Then one of them shoved him from behind, while another tried to grab his bag. It turned into a grappling match, when one of the kids hit him with a skateboard. He went down, the kids ran off, and when his friends showed up again he had to talk about how he had his ass beaten by a bunch of 5' Brit gangsta wannabes. ("Chavs," I believe they're called). He got a piece of one or two of them, and ended up filing a police report, but I saw pictures of him from around then and he did take a pretty mean beating. Part of that is probably because he tried to find a way out of the altercation after they started shoving him, without hitting them, because he didn't want to hit someone so much smaller than he is.
Me? Well, I've always hated children.
posted by klangklangston at 2:51 PM on September 20, 2005
Me? Well, I've always hated children.
posted by klangklangston at 2:51 PM on September 20, 2005
My two cents: get good and pissed off, and bull through their encirclement. Don't let yourself get intimidated. They won't be able to stop you if you're an adult male and you've gotten angry enough. Pepper spray, slapping, kick to the belly, shoving, berserk rage, arm twists, those will all go through twelve-year-olds. You've probably got a height, reach, and weight advantage. Get pissed, get through, then escape.
Of course, I would probably lose, because I wouldn't do this. I'd be so obsessed with making an opening for the classic Batman move where he knocks two villains' heads together – and this would be perfect! – that I'd not pay enough attention and one of the brats would kick me in the balls and game over. Fuck you, pop culture!
posted by furiousthought at 2:52 PM on September 20, 2005
Of course, I would probably lose, because I wouldn't do this. I'd be so obsessed with making an opening for the classic Batman move where he knocks two villains' heads together – and this would be perfect! – that I'd not pay enough attention and one of the brats would kick me in the balls and game over. Fuck you, pop culture!
posted by furiousthought at 2:52 PM on September 20, 2005
If they just gather I would actually try to calmly - very calmly - walk to another location, esp one where they couldn't actually do anything. Kids gather like that all the time. They want to see if they can be intimidating - it's definitely a new thing for most kids. And kids that age want to get a rise out of people - I would imagine in most cases that would be the goal, not actually hurting anyone.
So the response has to be not to let them believe that you feel threatened. Don't taunt or say anything, try your hardest not to act frightened or nervous in any way. Get the hell out of there, and be as alert as you can that things could change in a second (and be ready to do something more flight/fight-like), but unless one of the kids actually takes a swing or displays a weapon, I would assume it's just posing.
posted by mikel at 2:55 PM on September 20, 2005
So the response has to be not to let them believe that you feel threatened. Don't taunt or say anything, try your hardest not to act frightened or nervous in any way. Get the hell out of there, and be as alert as you can that things could change in a second (and be ready to do something more flight/fight-like), but unless one of the kids actually takes a swing or displays a weapon, I would assume it's just posing.
posted by mikel at 2:55 PM on September 20, 2005
There's a great way to get anyone's attention that hurts so bad that it'll take the fight right out of them. The best part is that it doesn't leave a mark or do any damage. It's also best applied to skinny little kids.
So chances are, most 11 year olds will be much smaller than you. That means that you can wrap your entire hand around one of their biceps. Just pick the biggest kid out of the crowd, grab him by the arm with one hand and use your thumb and forefinger to pinch a tiny (very tiny) piece of his inner-upper arm (about directly halfway between the armpit and the elbow). Pinch as hard as you can and the kid will shriek and flail like a wimp in front of his buddies (in fact, adults will shriek and flail if you do this. The worst part is how embarrassing it is, that a little pinch could hurt so much.) For effect, lift the kid off the ground by his arm. For variation, you can use the time-honored method of grabbing an ear instead of an arm.
If that fails, a strong, open-handed slap in the ear or mouth works pretty well.
Don't try blunt force on kids that small. They're made of rubber and they're pretty resilient, especially when they're excited. The amount of blunt force it'd take to stop them would probably result in some permanent damage. I mean, you can KO a full grown man without breaking his jaw but if you hit a kid hard enough to make them black out, chances are pretty high that you've ensured them a trip to the hospital.
posted by Jon-o at 2:57 PM on September 20, 2005
So chances are, most 11 year olds will be much smaller than you. That means that you can wrap your entire hand around one of their biceps. Just pick the biggest kid out of the crowd, grab him by the arm with one hand and use your thumb and forefinger to pinch a tiny (very tiny) piece of his inner-upper arm (about directly halfway between the armpit and the elbow). Pinch as hard as you can and the kid will shriek and flail like a wimp in front of his buddies (in fact, adults will shriek and flail if you do this. The worst part is how embarrassing it is, that a little pinch could hurt so much.) For effect, lift the kid off the ground by his arm. For variation, you can use the time-honored method of grabbing an ear instead of an arm.
If that fails, a strong, open-handed slap in the ear or mouth works pretty well.
Don't try blunt force on kids that small. They're made of rubber and they're pretty resilient, especially when they're excited. The amount of blunt force it'd take to stop them would probably result in some permanent damage. I mean, you can KO a full grown man without breaking his jaw but if you hit a kid hard enough to make them black out, chances are pretty high that you've ensured them a trip to the hospital.
posted by Jon-o at 2:57 PM on September 20, 2005
Start screaming. At the tops of your lungs. Get attention.
posted by Sara Anne at 3:00 PM on September 20, 2005
posted by Sara Anne at 3:00 PM on September 20, 2005
If there was ever a time to fling poo, this is it.
posted by mecran01 at 3:02 PM on September 20, 2005
posted by mecran01 at 3:02 PM on September 20, 2005
Jon-o, I agree that it is better to take them down/out with a slap if possible. However, if they have to go to the hospital then so be it, maybe they'll give up the foolish thug garbage afterwards.
I used to live in Minneapolis, where occasionally sorta-gangs of kids would do things like this to people right in the mighty Mall of America. I decided then what I'd do in that circumstance. Sharply hurt them, hopefully not permanently if not absolutely needed and dash off yelling. FWIW, I gather that they've mostly curbed this problem in the years since I've been gone.
posted by Invoke at 3:26 PM on September 20, 2005
I used to live in Minneapolis, where occasionally sorta-gangs of kids would do things like this to people right in the mighty Mall of America. I decided then what I'd do in that circumstance. Sharply hurt them, hopefully not permanently if not absolutely needed and dash off yelling. FWIW, I gather that they've mostly curbed this problem in the years since I've been gone.
posted by Invoke at 3:26 PM on September 20, 2005
Grab a child and tear off both his earlobes, then pop one of his eyeballs out with a thumb. Discard and grab another child. Repeat. If resistance is fierce or you're being injured crush a trachea.
posted by snarfodox at 3:36 PM on September 20, 2005
posted by snarfodox at 3:36 PM on September 20, 2005
you're telling me you can poop on command, under pressure, with an audience, into your hand?
posted by pmbuko at 4:43 PM on September 20, 2005
posted by pmbuko at 4:43 PM on September 20, 2005
mild-mannered
I'd run - though handing them a Playboy magazine would better a successful defense.
posted by thomcatspike at 4:53 PM on September 20, 2005
I'd run - though handing them a Playboy magazine would better a successful defense.
posted by thomcatspike at 4:53 PM on September 20, 2005
Ignore them utterly, and failing that, punch throats and kick knees.
posted by sciurus at 5:06 PM on September 20, 2005
posted by sciurus at 5:06 PM on September 20, 2005
This just happened to my SO a couple days ago, only difference was they were a tad older. He was surrounded by six punks who demanded his money while he was on his way to the store. They stabbed him a couple times and kicked him when he fell to the ground, one of the kicks to his head broke his nose. He said in that scenario go after the leader and hurt him badly, make him cry like a baby. The fact he fought back saved his life - they weren't really after his money, they were out looking to hurt someone and they really didn't care who it would be.
In my case I am very much a pacifist and will do almost anything to walk away rather than engage those who would like to pick a fight. But, if some junior woodchuck wannabe psycho(s) tried circling and intimidating me 'cause they wanted to look tough to their buddies or did what they did to Tony I'm pretty sure I'd try to hurt them. I can't stand people who like to bully/hurt others.
Thing about the scenario is you don't know who your dealing with even if they are only 11/12 years old. I know 11/12 year olds who have used weapons (sticks/knives) on people older than themselves. There are some seriously disturbed kids out there and if I ran across one (or a bunch) I'm not going to treat them as a equals, I'm going to treat them like the punks they are ... but if I can get away I'll definitely do that.
posted by squeak at 5:08 PM on September 20, 2005
In my case I am very much a pacifist and will do almost anything to walk away rather than engage those who would like to pick a fight. But, if some junior woodchuck wannabe psycho(s) tried circling and intimidating me 'cause they wanted to look tough to their buddies or did what they did to Tony I'm pretty sure I'd try to hurt them. I can't stand people who like to bully/hurt others.
Thing about the scenario is you don't know who your dealing with even if they are only 11/12 years old. I know 11/12 year olds who have used weapons (sticks/knives) on people older than themselves. There are some seriously disturbed kids out there and if I ran across one (or a bunch) I'm not going to treat them as a equals, I'm going to treat them like the punks they are ... but if I can get away I'll definitely do that.
posted by squeak at 5:08 PM on September 20, 2005
Physical contact should be considered a final, last-ditch option. It should be something that you want to avoid if at all possible. If this is in the US you should consider that one or more of the kids may be armed. In the UK, they might have knives.
So, you want to escape this situation, and they won't let you. Assuming that you don't have any spray/taser on you, you'll need to hurt one or more of them so badly that the others panic. This may also mean that you end up being arrested, so think about that.
Simply running away, however, may not work -- if you're just running blindly they'll catch you. And you definitely don't want to run somewhere worse -- so if you run, run only in the direction of light & noise.
Try to identify the leader (they'll probably be talking the most), and do the unexpected. As an adult you'll have an advantage in leverage, upper-body strength and probably height.
Let one of them strike you first -- it'll probably be a push/shove. Grab that arm with your weaker hand, twist it inward to lock the elbow, and break it with your dominant hand (sharp blow to their elbow, which should be a downward blow now).
Immediately follow up with a strike on the next nearest person (consider, if possible, breaking their right collarbone -- your height should make that fairly easy, and then they're pretty much screwed). The rest will probably scatter.
One note: Never hit someone in the head with a weapon (glass bottle, nearby metal rod, whatever) unless you're willing to have them possibly die.
posted by aramaic at 5:27 PM on September 20, 2005
So, you want to escape this situation, and they won't let you. Assuming that you don't have any spray/taser on you, you'll need to hurt one or more of them so badly that the others panic. This may also mean that you end up being arrested, so think about that.
Simply running away, however, may not work -- if you're just running blindly they'll catch you. And you definitely don't want to run somewhere worse -- so if you run, run only in the direction of light & noise.
Try to identify the leader (they'll probably be talking the most), and do the unexpected. As an adult you'll have an advantage in leverage, upper-body strength and probably height.
Let one of them strike you first -- it'll probably be a push/shove. Grab that arm with your weaker hand, twist it inward to lock the elbow, and break it with your dominant hand (sharp blow to their elbow, which should be a downward blow now).
Immediately follow up with a strike on the next nearest person (consider, if possible, breaking their right collarbone -- your height should make that fairly easy, and then they're pretty much screwed). The rest will probably scatter.
One note: Never hit someone in the head with a weapon (glass bottle, nearby metal rod, whatever) unless you're willing to have them possibly die.
posted by aramaic at 5:27 PM on September 20, 2005
Pepper Spray.
If you're in doubt - some Friday night, spray yourself in the face. It's very good at what it does. It also works for most attacking animals, but not all that good with snakes.
Best of luck, stay alert. Be watchful for when they upgrade in armament.
posted by sled at 5:45 PM on September 20, 2005
If you're in doubt - some Friday night, spray yourself in the face. It's very good at what it does. It also works for most attacking animals, but not all that good with snakes.
Best of luck, stay alert. Be watchful for when they upgrade in armament.
posted by sled at 5:45 PM on September 20, 2005
you're telling me you can poop on command, under pressure, with an audience, into your hand?
I make sure to eat a lot of fiber, specifically for this purpose. Not only does it almost guarantee no 12 year old will assault you, it also makes you really cool at parties.
I like the "pee on them" response, except exposing yourself to children will probably get you on some very bad list interfaced with Google maps. You might have a similar problem if you break their arms or something drastic like that; it won't make you a sex offender but you're still seriously injuring a child and that can come back to haunt you should you ever run for president.
posted by thirteenkiller at 5:52 PM on September 20, 2005
I make sure to eat a lot of fiber, specifically for this purpose. Not only does it almost guarantee no 12 year old will assault you, it also makes you really cool at parties.
I like the "pee on them" response, except exposing yourself to children will probably get you on some very bad list interfaced with Google maps. You might have a similar problem if you break their arms or something drastic like that; it won't make you a sex offender but you're still seriously injuring a child and that can come back to haunt you should you ever run for president.
posted by thirteenkiller at 5:52 PM on September 20, 2005
There's that episode of Spaced where Tim and Daisy get attacked by a group of teenage thugs. The ol' shoot 'em with your finger (well, a bit more than that) worked for them.
Of course, this episode was based on the fact that no male can resist acting out a gun battle if fired upon in such a way.
posted by synecdoche at 6:15 PM on September 20, 2005
Of course, this episode was based on the fact that no male can resist acting out a gun battle if fired upon in such a way.
posted by synecdoche at 6:15 PM on September 20, 2005
After the rash of swarmings in BC, I expected the police to give tips for dealing with just this situation. But I haven't heard anything. One of my strategies is calling someone (my husband) on my cell phone anytime passersby make me notice and then saying, "Oh, yeah! I can see you in the window!" -- even if I can't. I've also always planned that if anyone under 15 ever looked like they were going to attack me, I'd say, "Oh! How's your mother? Say hi for me!" I heard that one years ago, but, fortunately, I've never needed to use it.
posted by acoutu at 6:38 PM on September 20, 2005
posted by acoutu at 6:38 PM on September 20, 2005
No, the kids would consistently kill the fucking shit out of you.
posted by ikkyu2 at 7:18 PM on September 20, 2005
posted by ikkyu2 at 7:18 PM on September 20, 2005
Oh, and remember that keys can be gripped between knuckles to make a punch particularly vicious.
posted by klangklangston at 7:43 PM on September 20, 2005
posted by klangklangston at 7:43 PM on September 20, 2005
> you're telling me you can poop on command, under pressure, with an audience, into your hand?
Yes -- as a matter of fact, hrrrmmmph, I'm doing that. hrrrmmmph. Right. hrrrmph. Now. *plop*.
See?
posted by NewBornHippy at 7:46 PM on September 20, 2005
Yes -- as a matter of fact, hrrrmmmph, I'm doing that. hrrrmmmph. Right. hrrrmph. Now. *plop*.
See?
posted by NewBornHippy at 7:46 PM on September 20, 2005
Response by poster: yeah acoutu, or "excuse me, officer" might be enough of a distraction to get a head start running.
Squeak - sorry to hear this. hope he comes through alright.
posted by hellbient at 7:46 PM on September 20, 2005
Squeak - sorry to hear this. hope he comes through alright.
posted by hellbient at 7:46 PM on September 20, 2005
Do not listen to anyone telling you not to hit the kids. If it's between you and the kids, hit the kids.
Or at least really look like you would.
posted by SweetJesus at 7:54 PM on September 20, 2005
Or at least really look like you would.
posted by SweetJesus at 7:54 PM on September 20, 2005
I am frankly aghast that this is enough of a problem that this thread has accumulated 50+ responses as to what to do. Are today's 11-year-olds really not scared of having the shit beat out of them by their parents for pulling this kind of stunt?
posted by kindall at 8:18 PM on September 20, 2005
posted by kindall at 8:18 PM on September 20, 2005
Pick out the biggest one. Swiftly GRAB their throat, put one of your legs behind one of their legs, then PUSH. HARD. Then kick them. Then turn around, screaming obscenities, and ask who wants some more.
A child engaging in this behavior is not just dangerous right now. They are a future, more serious danger to society if they are not taught NOT to engage in such behavior. As an adult and a member of society, it is your ethical duty to teach them 'manners.'
Look, if they have a gun, it's already over, whether you run or not.
Oh yeah, and it only takes 8 pounds of pressure per square inch to rip a human ear off of a head. Just grab and yank.
And don't be afraid to kick some balls.
posted by geekhorde at 8:19 PM on September 20, 2005
A child engaging in this behavior is not just dangerous right now. They are a future, more serious danger to society if they are not taught NOT to engage in such behavior. As an adult and a member of society, it is your ethical duty to teach them 'manners.'
Look, if they have a gun, it's already over, whether you run or not.
Oh yeah, and it only takes 8 pounds of pressure per square inch to rip a human ear off of a head. Just grab and yank.
And don't be afraid to kick some balls.
posted by geekhorde at 8:19 PM on September 20, 2005
I saw some dude in NYC being harrassed by 3 or four punks and he pulled out a tiny pocket knife and started chasing them. You never saw kids run that fast. Time is of the essense. Show no fear and before they can organize go after the leader hard. If you don't carry a knife use your keys. The others will freeze. They can't act without direction - think George Bush without Cheney.
posted by any major dude at 9:31 PM on September 20, 2005
posted by any major dude at 9:31 PM on September 20, 2005
kindall - like acoutu pointed out; this is a real problem (in some areas).
I peripherally hung out with some "bad elements" when I was in my very early teens - they/we would never think about trying to prove balls against someone they even had a *doubt* could hurt them/the "leader."
Instead of getting out of the situation, avoiding it is probably your best bet. Don't swagger, but *don't* bow your head/avoid eye contact. Do. Not. Act. Afraid.
If you see a potentially dangerous element, acknowlege that you are aware of their presence. Don't cross the street to avoid them/whatever. Just *know* that you can defend yourself and that they'd be wasting their time trying to fuck with you.
It's kinda like approaching a woman, right? omgomgomg she's so totally going to reject me vs. oh yeah. her eyes lit up, she's starting to smile. be casual, eh?.
Does someone have that William Boroughs quote handy, about how he managed not to get his ass handed to him when he was in Monaco/Interzone?
posted by PurplePorpoise at 9:50 PM on September 20, 2005
I peripherally hung out with some "bad elements" when I was in my very early teens - they/we would never think about trying to prove balls against someone they even had a *doubt* could hurt them/the "leader."
Instead of getting out of the situation, avoiding it is probably your best bet. Don't swagger, but *don't* bow your head/avoid eye contact. Do. Not. Act. Afraid.
If you see a potentially dangerous element, acknowlege that you are aware of their presence. Don't cross the street to avoid them/whatever. Just *know* that you can defend yourself and that they'd be wasting their time trying to fuck with you.
It's kinda like approaching a woman, right? omgomgomg she's so totally going to reject me vs. oh yeah. her eyes lit up, she's starting to smile. be casual, eh?.
Does someone have that William Boroughs quote handy, about how he managed not to get his ass handed to him when he was in Monaco/Interzone?
posted by PurplePorpoise at 9:50 PM on September 20, 2005
Five 11 year old boys would probably be the outside number of kids you could conceivably handle, kids change a lot quite quickly around that age, for example you probably couldn't handle three 15 year olds or two 16 year olds, I'd suggest the best thing to do, like many people have said, is not get into this situation.
In order of preference:
1. Don't be there.
2. Walk or run away.
3. Ultraviolence.
If you can't do anything to avoid option 3 you need to use only the appropriate level of force - and this isn't only about age, it's about the the vibe of these kids, the way they're carrying themselves, the things they're saying, and their size, etc.
1. If they're tiny little momma's boys that the pack mentality has given an obviously false sense of toughness.
At this age you probably don't need to do the violent punch in the face thing right off or at all.
If you're anything like me you've probably played with young cousins / friends' kids / younger siblings, and you'll know that kids just don't have a chance against you (bear in mind that I'm 184cm, 115kg), just throw a couple of them on the ground.
Kids that age are like ragdolls. They have literally no chance against you, at least in anything resembling a fair fight, and in an unfair sitation if you keep your wits about you, you can probably spin the balance against them quickly.
Last time I played with my cousins (only 3 of them, and a little younger than this on average) I had one over my shoulder, one under an arm, and was using a free hand to utterly control the third - this was easy, no real effort on my behalf at all.
But of course they weren't trying to kill me and I'm just using this to illustrate the significance of your size advantage. 5 kids probably couldn't pick you up working as a group, while you could probably lift any 3 of them at once.
Once you've made it really clear to them that you are totally in control of them, you can tell them to leave, I'd suggest something like "scram you little ruffians, or I'll call the constabulary on the lot of you!"
Don't let them get you on the ground, once you're on the ground your advantage is significantly reduced.
2. If they're a little bit older (and a big 12 is entirely different than a small 11) or nastier.
I think the really important thing with 'going the violent route' is to not give any warning, sure you can make it clear you're not going to take any shit from these kids, but don't put up your dukes and say "if you don't leave me alone I'll bop you one on the nose, you young ruffians!" - no, if you're going to hit someone, just do it.
You don't need to give them warning. This isn't the UN.
You don't need 3 months to move your arms into position on these kids' borders, you can throw a punch from the waist that should knock a kids eyes back in his head, and if you do it like this the chances of a successful parry or block are significantly reduced.
If you're going to try this, you need to know how to make a good tight strong fist, and how to lock your wrist so you can get maximum power through into their face / neck / sternum. You should be striking with the first two knuckles, not the full flat of the hand, but you don't want to hit anything which is so hard that you break your knuckles. You also need to know how to throw an actual punch, this doesn't start with your elbow, it probably doesn't even start with your shoulder, it's only something you can learn through hundreds of hours of sweating and practicing, but the best punches really start in your feet with a good stance (even if it only gets that way briefly) and makes it's way up through your pivoting hips, before slinging up around your shoulder and down your arm to your knuckles.
If you don't know how to deliver a good sharp kick, forget about it. Just use your legs and feet to keep your body off the ground. If you do know how to throw a good kick - there's no way one of them will be able to get near you, your legs are just too much longer than theirs.
Now, you can probably be confident that barring freaks of nature or firearms, you can take any one of these kids, but the problem is that this scenario involves five of them, so how do you deal with a bunch of them at once? The simple reality is that you can't really fight more than one person at a time (the thing with pushing the younger kids around isn't really a fight, they have no idea what they're doing, and they're just so little and pathetic), so you either:
2.1. Shock and awe.
Pick one, ideally the leader which you've somehow identified from the group and deal him such devastation that his friends are utterly shocked and terrified.
This means, assuming you don't have some uber flashy acrobatic headkicks ready to let loose at the slightest opportunity (and who does) you need to deliver a real monster of a punch, so use the technique I quickly brushed over to hit him either:
(a.) Square into the middle of his face, mushing his nose, and producing gouts of blood, probably not knocking him out and either making him furiously angry, or stunning him back into the crying little child he really is - one of these would be useful to your purposes, the other really really not.
(b.) Upwards into his jaw, hopefully smashing a couple of teeth or slicing off the tip of his tongue, and almost certainly knocking him out, but with less (or no) blood.
I'd suggest that (b.) is the safest choice, it's the more stealthy punch - assuming you're standing right in front of the kid. Depending on where he's looking, you can also misdirect him by starting to say something just as you start your punch, bring your fist directly up into his jaw, if his mouth is open, the punch will snap his jaw shut hard, follow through with the punch, don't aim at the jaw, aim right up through his brain pan, your fist is going to hit the sky. Punch fast, punch hard.
If you get it right -- and it will take a bit of luck even if you do -- he's going to be definitely stunned, and possibly dropped on the ground like a sack of potatoes.
So now perhaps you can run, you have one less kid chasing you (maybe none if they're freaked out and/or checking on their friend), or perhaps you can try and hit another one of them, but you won't have surprise on your side anymore.
You now have to immediately call the police. Right away.
You want to make it clear that you've just been attacked and you had to fight of the group and run, you want the police to get there right away. And you need to make sure you get your spin right from the start, these weren't children playing in a sandpit that you just decided to start bullying on a whim, these were violent little hoodlums that you fought off and escaped.
You want to make sure that when the police catch them (one can hope) they're going to call the mother and say "your son has been arrested for assault and attempting to mug a student on campus," you definitely don't want "your son has been assaulted, we'd like you to come down to the station to lay charges and pick up your kid."
2.2. Scrap.
Don't really fight any one of them, just use a (much) more violent version of my suggested approach to the smaller kids, shove them around - but hard, really push them into walls, ideally by the back of the head, grab them by the neck and smash them into a tree, or throw them down on a planter pot, just don't take too much time with any one of them, throw a few slaps or punches in there if you can, just generally cause them a whole lot of grief.
Shove them down, not just away, you want them scraping and bouncing on the ground, not just stumbling a short distance then coming right back, you have to get them onto the ground if you can.
You don't want to join them there. Getting up off the ground makes people really tired really quickly.
You need to make it absolutely clear that this isn't going to be an easy or satisfying experience for them. Don't let them get behind you if you can avoid it. Be as brutal as you can while still only allowing your focus to fall on any one of them very briefly.
Brutality really is absolutely essential here, you're not a nice mild mannered liberal arts student right now, you're a feral animal, with sharp claws and big pointy teeth -- or at least a mean slap. Aggression is going to win this for you.
You can't go toe to toe with these guys, they have 50, you have 10.
Let me just say that while I have fought individual young teens (in a controlled situation, wearing protective gear, and with a clear set of rules -- in a dojo) I've never found myself in the situation you've laid out with your question -- and I've found myself in less potentially violent confrontations since I trained in martial arts, I don't know if this is because I'm more confident now, or if it's because they really drilled situational awareness into us -- but I suspect the latter.
If you're seriously worried by this sort of scenario, I suggest you train in some good martial art, they'll teach you two things:
1. How to be stupidly overconfident in a fight and get your arse kicked and handed back to you.
2. How to avoid getting in fights by noticing the things around you.
I live in a country where even the police only get firearms on special occasions, if you live in a country where 12 year old kids are likely to have guns, you should leave.
posted by The Monkey at 12:53 AM on September 21, 2005
In order of preference:
1. Don't be there.
2. Walk or run away.
3. Ultraviolence.
If you can't do anything to avoid option 3 you need to use only the appropriate level of force - and this isn't only about age, it's about the the vibe of these kids, the way they're carrying themselves, the things they're saying, and their size, etc.
1. If they're tiny little momma's boys that the pack mentality has given an obviously false sense of toughness.
At this age you probably don't need to do the violent punch in the face thing right off or at all.
If you're anything like me you've probably played with young cousins / friends' kids / younger siblings, and you'll know that kids just don't have a chance against you (bear in mind that I'm 184cm, 115kg), just throw a couple of them on the ground.
Kids that age are like ragdolls. They have literally no chance against you, at least in anything resembling a fair fight, and in an unfair sitation if you keep your wits about you, you can probably spin the balance against them quickly.
Last time I played with my cousins (only 3 of them, and a little younger than this on average) I had one over my shoulder, one under an arm, and was using a free hand to utterly control the third - this was easy, no real effort on my behalf at all.
But of course they weren't trying to kill me and I'm just using this to illustrate the significance of your size advantage. 5 kids probably couldn't pick you up working as a group, while you could probably lift any 3 of them at once.
Once you've made it really clear to them that you are totally in control of them, you can tell them to leave, I'd suggest something like "scram you little ruffians, or I'll call the constabulary on the lot of you!"
Don't let them get you on the ground, once you're on the ground your advantage is significantly reduced.
2. If they're a little bit older (and a big 12 is entirely different than a small 11) or nastier.
I think the really important thing with 'going the violent route' is to not give any warning, sure you can make it clear you're not going to take any shit from these kids, but don't put up your dukes and say "if you don't leave me alone I'll bop you one on the nose, you young ruffians!" - no, if you're going to hit someone, just do it.
You don't need to give them warning. This isn't the UN.
You don't need 3 months to move your arms into position on these kids' borders, you can throw a punch from the waist that should knock a kids eyes back in his head, and if you do it like this the chances of a successful parry or block are significantly reduced.
If you're going to try this, you need to know how to make a good tight strong fist, and how to lock your wrist so you can get maximum power through into their face / neck / sternum. You should be striking with the first two knuckles, not the full flat of the hand, but you don't want to hit anything which is so hard that you break your knuckles. You also need to know how to throw an actual punch, this doesn't start with your elbow, it probably doesn't even start with your shoulder, it's only something you can learn through hundreds of hours of sweating and practicing, but the best punches really start in your feet with a good stance (even if it only gets that way briefly) and makes it's way up through your pivoting hips, before slinging up around your shoulder and down your arm to your knuckles.
If you don't know how to deliver a good sharp kick, forget about it. Just use your legs and feet to keep your body off the ground. If you do know how to throw a good kick - there's no way one of them will be able to get near you, your legs are just too much longer than theirs.
Now, you can probably be confident that barring freaks of nature or firearms, you can take any one of these kids, but the problem is that this scenario involves five of them, so how do you deal with a bunch of them at once? The simple reality is that you can't really fight more than one person at a time (the thing with pushing the younger kids around isn't really a fight, they have no idea what they're doing, and they're just so little and pathetic), so you either:
2.1. Shock and awe.
Pick one, ideally the leader which you've somehow identified from the group and deal him such devastation that his friends are utterly shocked and terrified.
This means, assuming you don't have some uber flashy acrobatic headkicks ready to let loose at the slightest opportunity (and who does) you need to deliver a real monster of a punch, so use the technique I quickly brushed over to hit him either:
(a.) Square into the middle of his face, mushing his nose, and producing gouts of blood, probably not knocking him out and either making him furiously angry, or stunning him back into the crying little child he really is - one of these would be useful to your purposes, the other really really not.
(b.) Upwards into his jaw, hopefully smashing a couple of teeth or slicing off the tip of his tongue, and almost certainly knocking him out, but with less (or no) blood.
I'd suggest that (b.) is the safest choice, it's the more stealthy punch - assuming you're standing right in front of the kid. Depending on where he's looking, you can also misdirect him by starting to say something just as you start your punch, bring your fist directly up into his jaw, if his mouth is open, the punch will snap his jaw shut hard, follow through with the punch, don't aim at the jaw, aim right up through his brain pan, your fist is going to hit the sky. Punch fast, punch hard.
If you get it right -- and it will take a bit of luck even if you do -- he's going to be definitely stunned, and possibly dropped on the ground like a sack of potatoes.
So now perhaps you can run, you have one less kid chasing you (maybe none if they're freaked out and/or checking on their friend), or perhaps you can try and hit another one of them, but you won't have surprise on your side anymore.
You now have to immediately call the police. Right away.
You want to make it clear that you've just been attacked and you had to fight of the group and run, you want the police to get there right away. And you need to make sure you get your spin right from the start, these weren't children playing in a sandpit that you just decided to start bullying on a whim, these were violent little hoodlums that you fought off and escaped.
You want to make sure that when the police catch them (one can hope) they're going to call the mother and say "your son has been arrested for assault and attempting to mug a student on campus," you definitely don't want "your son has been assaulted, we'd like you to come down to the station to lay charges and pick up your kid."
2.2. Scrap.
Don't really fight any one of them, just use a (much) more violent version of my suggested approach to the smaller kids, shove them around - but hard, really push them into walls, ideally by the back of the head, grab them by the neck and smash them into a tree, or throw them down on a planter pot, just don't take too much time with any one of them, throw a few slaps or punches in there if you can, just generally cause them a whole lot of grief.
Shove them down, not just away, you want them scraping and bouncing on the ground, not just stumbling a short distance then coming right back, you have to get them onto the ground if you can.
You don't want to join them there. Getting up off the ground makes people really tired really quickly.
You need to make it absolutely clear that this isn't going to be an easy or satisfying experience for them. Don't let them get behind you if you can avoid it. Be as brutal as you can while still only allowing your focus to fall on any one of them very briefly.
Brutality really is absolutely essential here, you're not a nice mild mannered liberal arts student right now, you're a feral animal, with sharp claws and big pointy teeth -- or at least a mean slap. Aggression is going to win this for you.
You can't go toe to toe with these guys, they have 50, you have 10.
Let me just say that while I have fought individual young teens (in a controlled situation, wearing protective gear, and with a clear set of rules -- in a dojo) I've never found myself in the situation you've laid out with your question -- and I've found myself in less potentially violent confrontations since I trained in martial arts, I don't know if this is because I'm more confident now, or if it's because they really drilled situational awareness into us -- but I suspect the latter.
If you're seriously worried by this sort of scenario, I suggest you train in some good martial art, they'll teach you two things:
1. How to be stupidly overconfident in a fight and get your arse kicked and handed back to you.
2. How to avoid getting in fights by noticing the things around you.
I live in a country where even the police only get firearms on special occasions, if you live in a country where 12 year old kids are likely to have guns, you should leave.
posted by The Monkey at 12:53 AM on September 21, 2005
I once had a bunch of kids try this with me and simply told them to fuck off. One of them used the A-1 classic line "Do you know who my dad is?" and I got the opportunity to come back with "No, do you?"
If a bunch of kids were to actually attempt to assault me I'd be in a quandry; I am strong enough to hit and seriously injure or kill the little tykes. As a result I would probably grab the biggest one and put him in an arm lock until he cried. With someone in an arm lock you can move them around like a human shield (which stops the others assaulting you) plus by showing the others what pain you can inflict with minimum effort you'll also put them off attacking you as well.
Oh, and just for the record - when I was 11 years old I was 6'0" tall and weighed about 160lbs.
posted by longbaugh at 1:58 AM on September 21, 2005
If a bunch of kids were to actually attempt to assault me I'd be in a quandry; I am strong enough to hit and seriously injure or kill the little tykes. As a result I would probably grab the biggest one and put him in an arm lock until he cried. With someone in an arm lock you can move them around like a human shield (which stops the others assaulting you) plus by showing the others what pain you can inflict with minimum effort you'll also put them off attacking you as well.
Oh, and just for the record - when I was 11 years old I was 6'0" tall and weighed about 160lbs.
posted by longbaugh at 1:58 AM on September 21, 2005
Look at the leader and say "Why don't you go over there and practice getting up. I'll be over when I am done with your friends". And then bitch slap the one nearest to you.
posted by jasondigitized at 7:04 AM on September 21, 2005
posted by jasondigitized at 7:04 AM on September 21, 2005
Thanks hellbient, he's in a whole pile of hurt right now but he'll be ok in the long run.
posted by squeak at 1:05 AM on September 22, 2005
posted by squeak at 1:05 AM on September 22, 2005
This thread is closed to new comments.
(This actually happened to a friend of mine who was on an internship in London. He ended up mostly getting his ass kicked, but he hurt a couple of the kids too...)
posted by klangklangston at 11:05 AM on September 20, 2005