Apologize or leave it alone?
May 28, 2013 4:06 AM Subscribe
Long story short... been seeing a guy (30) for about three months (I'm 27). Early last week I attempted to make plans with him for the weekend, but he couldn't lock anything down. He then asked me both Sat and Sun nights to get together later that night after he was done doing other things. Upset because I had tried to make actual plans with him much earlier in the week, I responded that I'm not a booty call. He said sorry and we could do something another night and I said I would like that, but haven't heard from him since.
My question is.. do I attempt to explain why I interpreted it the way I did or just give him some space? And was I even justified to be upset? I sense that he was losing interest before this happened and it probably seemed to come out of nowhere, so I'm afraid I may have blown it.
You blew what? That he wanted a booty call, and you stood up for yourself and said no?
posted by Melismata at 4:11 AM on May 28, 2013 [73 favorites]
posted by Melismata at 4:11 AM on May 28, 2013 [73 favorites]
I think he was looking for a booty call and therefore, he knows why you interpreted this as a booty call--hence his apology. So I see no need to explain it to him. I can't get into his head as to whether he has interest beyond that. But give it a few more days to see if he does without giving in to the drama as that is far more likely to push him away.
posted by murrey at 4:17 AM on May 28, 2013 [7 favorites]
posted by murrey at 4:17 AM on May 28, 2013 [7 favorites]
If you did "blow it", then that would be a good thing, because honestly, anyone who would dump you because you tried to make plans and then rejected his same-night calls after he had refused to lock anything down, is not someone worth worrying over.
He asked if you'd like to do something another night and you said you'd be fine with that: let him continue taking the lead on this. He'll show his true colors either way.
No matter what happens, you listened to your needs, offered ways to meet them (planning), and stuck by them when he went all last-minute in spite of the opportunities he had to meet them. That's very healthy behavior on your part, and will help keep you out of situations where people test your boundaries to escalate towards crossing more and more of them.
posted by fraula at 4:22 AM on May 28, 2013 [35 favorites]
He asked if you'd like to do something another night and you said you'd be fine with that: let him continue taking the lead on this. He'll show his true colors either way.
No matter what happens, you listened to your needs, offered ways to meet them (planning), and stuck by them when he went all last-minute in spite of the opportunities he had to meet them. That's very healthy behavior on your part, and will help keep you out of situations where people test your boundaries to escalate towards crossing more and more of them.
posted by fraula at 4:22 AM on May 28, 2013 [35 favorites]
I'm leaning toward bquarters' explanation, with the caveat that he may have been doing it unintentionally (or at least unconsciously), and you may have snapped him out of that, but he's unsure about how to proceed from here. If you don't hear from him by the weekend, maybe drop him a line and say, "Hey, I was thinking about going to [a specific event/movie/book-signing that both of you would enjoy that is on that same day or the next one]. Want to come?" If he blows you off for any reason, it's over and you'll know it.
posted by Etrigan at 4:27 AM on May 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Etrigan at 4:27 AM on May 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
Well it does seem like he acknowledges having treated you like a booty call, so I don't think you misinterpreted this.
Some would say that treating you like a booty call is normal dating behaviour these days and if you agree that it is, I suggest taking a step back, and waiting to see if he takes the initiative to make real plans with you, unbidden by you.
TBH, I think that treating you like a booty call is a firing offense. Unless you've both agreed upfront that that is the kind of relationship you're going to have, as in a "let's be FWB" discussion or you have your dating profile set to "booty call", I think it is inherently disrespectful to treat you like that. It's even worse since you were dating him already.
posted by tel3path at 4:32 AM on May 28, 2013 [11 favorites]
Some would say that treating you like a booty call is normal dating behaviour these days and if you agree that it is, I suggest taking a step back, and waiting to see if he takes the initiative to make real plans with you, unbidden by you.
TBH, I think that treating you like a booty call is a firing offense. Unless you've both agreed upfront that that is the kind of relationship you're going to have, as in a "let's be FWB" discussion or you have your dating profile set to "booty call", I think it is inherently disrespectful to treat you like that. It's even worse since you were dating him already.
posted by tel3path at 4:32 AM on May 28, 2013 [11 favorites]
Remember that a man who is truly worth it will go to great lengths to please you. Anyone less, and there will be trouble down the road.
posted by squirbel at 4:36 AM on May 28, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by squirbel at 4:36 AM on May 28, 2013 [5 favorites]
He blew it.
posted by vitabellosi at 4:37 AM on May 28, 2013 [10 favorites]
posted by vitabellosi at 4:37 AM on May 28, 2013 [10 favorites]
He's not that into you, and you calling him on the booty call wasn't the cause of it. If he wants to continue the relationship, he'll call you and set up an actual date. Or you can call him back for a booty call, I guess, if you change your mind.
posted by empath at 4:54 AM on May 28, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by empath at 4:54 AM on May 28, 2013 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Thanks, all. Just the confirmation I needed.
posted by starsatnight at 4:54 AM on May 28, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by starsatnight at 4:54 AM on May 28, 2013 [5 favorites]
I think you did everything right here, no blowing or screwing up. He was definitely treating you as a bootycall, and I (like you) find that unacceptable. High fives to you for standing up for yourself and demanding appropriate, kind, respectful behaviour from him.
posted by PuppetMcSockerson at 4:55 AM on May 28, 2013 [7 favorites]
posted by PuppetMcSockerson at 4:55 AM on May 28, 2013 [7 favorites]
Even if you/he made a "mistake", if it's a worthwhile relationship you're both allowed to make mistakes. It's how it's received and responded to that lets you know if you're compatible.
Mistakes are not the end-all since we're all imperfect. So, continue to define who you are and proceed where it takes you.
posted by mightshould at 4:59 AM on May 28, 2013 [6 favorites]
Mistakes are not the end-all since we're all imperfect. So, continue to define who you are and proceed where it takes you.
posted by mightshould at 4:59 AM on May 28, 2013 [6 favorites]
I feel that maybe you guys are experimenting with (and perhaps misunderstanding the level and character of) power dynamics in your relationship. You are assuming, and acted upon that, that this guy put you aside and picked you up again when his need to see you was acute - an act of demonstrating that he is in charge.
On the other hand, by dismissing the possibility of a simple sloppy misunderstanding (his calling you in the weekend could in fact even have been a clumsy attempt to make good that he earlier said no to your plans), you assert power as well: the power of interpreting whatever came your way in this particular manner. Which could be fine, but it doesn't tell you much about what really happened.
So.
Why not meet and talk it out in a "I could learn from you" type of spirit. Putting (static) stickers on actions, such as "booty call", never helps to understand a dynamic situation.
posted by Namlit at 5:35 AM on May 28, 2013 [3 favorites]
On the other hand, by dismissing the possibility of a simple sloppy misunderstanding (his calling you in the weekend could in fact even have been a clumsy attempt to make good that he earlier said no to your plans), you assert power as well: the power of interpreting whatever came your way in this particular manner. Which could be fine, but it doesn't tell you much about what really happened.
So.
Why not meet and talk it out in a "I could learn from you" type of spirit. Putting (static) stickers on actions, such as "booty call", never helps to understand a dynamic situation.
posted by Namlit at 5:35 AM on May 28, 2013 [3 favorites]
I think it all depends on what he was doing that night that prevented him from making actual plans. Also, there were times when I was dating a woman when we each had alternative plans for the night but ended up together at the end of the night. Depends on where you are in the relationship.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 5:47 AM on May 28, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by JohnnyGunn at 5:47 AM on May 28, 2013 [4 favorites]
I don't know. Some people are just really bad at committing to plans. It doesn't have to be any more malicious than that.
posted by Orchestra at 5:58 AM on May 28, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by Orchestra at 5:58 AM on May 28, 2013 [3 favorites]
It 100% depends on what he was doing. For instance this last weekend I built a deck. My entire Saturday and Sunday were full of building the deck. But I knocked off every night at about 5. After a shower I had a free night to do whatever I wanted to.
Now sure, he could have forseen this and planned appropriately, but what if it was forecast to rain the next day? Well I would have worked till 8 or 9 until I had the project in a state where rain wouldn't ruin it all. Same kind of thing goes for car repairs, or landscaping, or any other work really. You just can't know, so you leave the night open.
Now if he was just dicking around playing Xbox all day or doing nothing, then you have an issue.
posted by sanka at 6:23 AM on May 28, 2013 [2 favorites]
Now sure, he could have forseen this and planned appropriately, but what if it was forecast to rain the next day? Well I would have worked till 8 or 9 until I had the project in a state where rain wouldn't ruin it all. Same kind of thing goes for car repairs, or landscaping, or any other work really. You just can't know, so you leave the night open.
Now if he was just dicking around playing Xbox all day or doing nothing, then you have an issue.
posted by sanka at 6:23 AM on May 28, 2013 [2 favorites]
I think you could have had a reasoned and rational conversation with him about the fact that his inability/unwillingness to make definite plans with you during the week made you feel like you weren't important.
You chose to go right to accusations about his motives. It's not surprising that he hasn't contacted you since.
In your shoes, I'd apologize. Then, I would do some self-examination to determine why I went from zero to freakout so quickly.
posted by DWRoelands at 6:32 AM on May 28, 2013
You chose to go right to accusations about his motives. It's not surprising that he hasn't contacted you since.
In your shoes, I'd apologize. Then, I would do some self-examination to determine why I went from zero to freakout so quickly.
posted by DWRoelands at 6:32 AM on May 28, 2013
I'm gonna be a crazy person in this sea of sanity and ask what makes an evening date automatically a booty call? He might have had obligations that he hadn't nailed down to exact times for the weekend and was still interested in seeing you when those obligations were discharged.
Honestly he probably feels like he dodged a bullet here. "I asked her if she wanted to do something in the evening and she assumed I was just looking to fuck. Weirdo."
On preview: Yeah what Sanka said, basically.
posted by Sternmeyer at 6:37 AM on May 28, 2013 [2 favorites]
Honestly he probably feels like he dodged a bullet here. "I asked her if she wanted to do something in the evening and she assumed I was just looking to fuck. Weirdo."
On preview: Yeah what Sanka said, basically.
posted by Sternmeyer at 6:37 AM on May 28, 2013 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Sternneyer, later that evening as in 10 or 11 at night.
posted by starsatnight at 6:43 AM on May 28, 2013
posted by starsatnight at 6:43 AM on May 28, 2013
10 or 11 at night is booty call time to everyone I know.
You judged correctly, starsatnight and good for you for standing up for yourself.
posted by cooker girl at 6:46 AM on May 28, 2013 [15 favorites]
You judged correctly, starsatnight and good for you for standing up for yourself.
posted by cooker girl at 6:46 AM on May 28, 2013 [15 favorites]
Good on you! You called him on his bullshit.
Let it alone. It will suck if you liked him, but he's clearly got something going on and you don't want any parts of it.
I applaud you on your resolve.
It's a lot easier to settle, than it is to advocate to be treated well.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:49 AM on May 28, 2013 [5 favorites]
Let it alone. It will suck if you liked him, but he's clearly got something going on and you don't want any parts of it.
I applaud you on your resolve.
It's a lot easier to settle, than it is to advocate to be treated well.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:49 AM on May 28, 2013 [5 favorites]
10 or 11 at night
Well, that's different (I'm usually in bed by then). I kinda thought it was more like seven or eightish at the latest. That's me projecting my lifestyle onto yours I guess, sorry about that.
Yeah then that's not really very cool even without the booty call context, makes it sound like you are at best something he's willing to squeeze in after he's done all the shit that actually matters. So fuck that dude, hold out for better.
posted by Sternmeyer at 6:52 AM on May 28, 2013 [10 favorites]
Well, that's different (I'm usually in bed by then). I kinda thought it was more like seven or eightish at the latest. That's me projecting my lifestyle onto yours I guess, sorry about that.
Yeah then that's not really very cool even without the booty call context, makes it sound like you are at best something he's willing to squeeze in after he's done all the shit that actually matters. So fuck that dude, hold out for better.
posted by Sternmeyer at 6:52 AM on May 28, 2013 [10 favorites]
Even if it wasn't a booty call (which it was), it's pretty rude to make it so clear that you're a Plan B Backburner date ON TOP of the assumption that *you've* got nothing better to do with your time than stare at your phone for his text all day and night.
You don't owe him an apology. If he offers you the apology he owes, you have my permission to graciously accept it then go find someone else to spend all your evenings with.
posted by mibo at 7:00 AM on May 28, 2013 [13 favorites]
You don't owe him an apology. If he offers you the apology he owes, you have my permission to graciously accept it then go find someone else to spend all your evenings with.
posted by mibo at 7:00 AM on May 28, 2013 [13 favorites]
Right, I think an important thing here is that you can take out the "booty call" aspect (which is kind of a loaded term), and the guy's behavior was thoughtless / inconsiderate at best. If a platonic girlfriend texted me at 10/11 pm at night and asked if I wanted to meet up for a drink, I would find it odd. I probably wouldn't be super offended because I assume good will with my friends, but it would be sort of breaking norms and poor etiquette.
With dating the situation is trickier because you're just getting to know someone and don't have that foundation of trust that makes it easy to assume good will. And you're more vulnerable when you're sleeping with someone, obviously. I think though that you can assume good will while dating, and even if you're wrong, it's not going to backfire against you. In this situation, I think I would have something like, "Hey, good to hear from you. It's pretty late though and I'm heading to bed soon [or out doing something else, whatever the case may be], but I'd be up for getting together another time soon."
posted by Asparagus at 7:07 AM on May 28, 2013 [2 favorites]
With dating the situation is trickier because you're just getting to know someone and don't have that foundation of trust that makes it easy to assume good will. And you're more vulnerable when you're sleeping with someone, obviously. I think though that you can assume good will while dating, and even if you're wrong, it's not going to backfire against you. In this situation, I think I would have something like, "Hey, good to hear from you. It's pretty late though and I'm heading to bed soon [or out doing something else, whatever the case may be], but I'd be up for getting together another time soon."
posted by Asparagus at 7:07 AM on May 28, 2013 [2 favorites]
Now sure, he could have forseen this and planned appropriately, but what if it was forecast to rain the next day? Well I would have worked till 8 or 9 until I had the project in a state where rain wouldn't ruin it all. Same kind of thing goes for car repairs, or landscaping, or any other work really. You just can't know, so you leave the night open.
Making plans is still easy, even if your schedule isn't set in stone. It's just communication. "I'm planning to work until 5 Saturday & Sunday but I'm at the mercy of the weather ... let's plan for Saturday night but are you ok with switching to Sunday if they're calling for rain? Then I could work until dark on Saturday."
posted by headnsouth at 7:11 AM on May 28, 2013 [6 favorites]
Making plans is still easy, even if your schedule isn't set in stone. It's just communication. "I'm planning to work until 5 Saturday & Sunday but I'm at the mercy of the weather ... let's plan for Saturday night but are you ok with switching to Sunday if they're calling for rain? Then I could work until dark on Saturday."
posted by headnsouth at 7:11 AM on May 28, 2013 [6 favorites]
Here's the thing, though. It's early in your relationship, but it does seem to be a relationship and not a FWB thing. He really should know better than to a) treat you like a booty call, b) look like he's treating you like a booty call.
Furthermore, it's not like you immediately lashed out with accusations the first time he did this. He did it on Saturday, and then he did it again on Sunday. I personally would not have voiced the thought that he was treating me like a booty call, more likely left the second request unanswered. (Assuming this conversation was by txt, if it was by phone it's not surprising you couldn't hold it in.)
If you wanted to be impeccably in the right here, a simple "Oh, no, thank you. It's late. Goodnight." is what you could have said.
But, yeah, come on. It's possible he's a lovely man with a respectful attitude, who nonetheless has suddenly(?) turned flaky and can't remember how to make plans, and who also is so strangely oblivious to social and dating norms that he doesn't know calling you at 10 or 11 at night, two nights in a row, could be perceived as treating you like a booty call. If that's the case, what is there to say - that he needs to go to the hospital to be checked out for a neurological problem, since he presumably never showed any signs of being so flaky and unaware before? Or perhaps the kinder interpretation is that he's too dumb to be in a relationship with you, which, yeah, very unfortunate for him but it must happen all the time. At least he now has a clue as to why one woman after another gets so mysteriously upset with him!
posted by tel3path at 7:20 AM on May 28, 2013 [2 favorites]
Furthermore, it's not like you immediately lashed out with accusations the first time he did this. He did it on Saturday, and then he did it again on Sunday. I personally would not have voiced the thought that he was treating me like a booty call, more likely left the second request unanswered. (Assuming this conversation was by txt, if it was by phone it's not surprising you couldn't hold it in.)
If you wanted to be impeccably in the right here, a simple "Oh, no, thank you. It's late. Goodnight." is what you could have said.
But, yeah, come on. It's possible he's a lovely man with a respectful attitude, who nonetheless has suddenly(?) turned flaky and can't remember how to make plans, and who also is so strangely oblivious to social and dating norms that he doesn't know calling you at 10 or 11 at night, two nights in a row, could be perceived as treating you like a booty call. If that's the case, what is there to say - that he needs to go to the hospital to be checked out for a neurological problem, since he presumably never showed any signs of being so flaky and unaware before? Or perhaps the kinder interpretation is that he's too dumb to be in a relationship with you, which, yeah, very unfortunate for him but it must happen all the time. At least he now has a clue as to why one woman after another gets so mysteriously upset with him!
posted by tel3path at 7:20 AM on May 28, 2013 [2 favorites]
Whether or not his intent was for a booty call, that you saw it as one says something about your relationship. Maybe that you don't trust him, maybe that you communicate badly, maybe something else. But it's worth examining why you'd interpret it that way: it might give you some insight into what else was off kilter for you two.
posted by tapir-whorf at 7:20 AM on May 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by tapir-whorf at 7:20 AM on May 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
If he's been losing interest prior, that's probably the biggest issue and a reason to leave it.
But if you've been dating three months, that's pretty well into a relationship. Are you boyfriend/girlfriend? If not, it's time to either talk or cut bait. If you are, it's time to have a chat about your mutual expectations. My girlfriend and I sometimes are busy -- but still would generally rather see each other at the end of the night if we can.
If you're still uncertain about the relationship and want to see him again, propose a concrete plan or leave things in his court and wait.
But honestly, if you just aren't feeling it now, which seems to me a real possibility, that's fine. You have this Internet citizen's support to make that decision and you should own it.
posted by J. Wilson at 7:22 AM on May 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
But if you've been dating three months, that's pretty well into a relationship. Are you boyfriend/girlfriend? If not, it's time to either talk or cut bait. If you are, it's time to have a chat about your mutual expectations. My girlfriend and I sometimes are busy -- but still would generally rather see each other at the end of the night if we can.
If you're still uncertain about the relationship and want to see him again, propose a concrete plan or leave things in his court and wait.
But honestly, if you just aren't feeling it now, which seems to me a real possibility, that's fine. You have this Internet citizen's support to make that decision and you should own it.
posted by J. Wilson at 7:22 AM on May 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
It kind of depends what the 'other things' were that he was doing, and why he 'couldn't lock anything down'.
If he was going to a wedding on Saturday and an invitation-only party on Sunday, say, and he'd rsvp'd to those events, and then he called you when he was done...I don't see it as a huge deal.
If 'couldn't' means 'didn't want to' lock anything down, and he wound up playing pool with his buddies until 10 pm and then called you...yeah no.
posted by Salamander at 7:23 AM on May 28, 2013 [2 favorites]
If he was going to a wedding on Saturday and an invitation-only party on Sunday, say, and he'd rsvp'd to those events, and then he called you when he was done...I don't see it as a huge deal.
If 'couldn't' means 'didn't want to' lock anything down, and he wound up playing pool with his buddies until 10 pm and then called you...yeah no.
posted by Salamander at 7:23 AM on May 28, 2013 [2 favorites]
Dunno if another voice in the chorus is needed but it certainly seems like you each have different expectations out of the relationship.
If I were you I'd just leave it; the last discussion you had was where he'd get in touch if he wanted to plan something in advance. If he gets in touch, he's interested in treating you like more than a BC, otherwise probably not.
There could be a flavour of "maybe she'll get desperate" in his silence but we really don't know him very well.
Anyway, seems like it's time to broaden your dating pool.
posted by seanmpuckett at 7:35 AM on May 28, 2013 [3 favorites]
If I were you I'd just leave it; the last discussion you had was where he'd get in touch if he wanted to plan something in advance. If he gets in touch, he's interested in treating you like more than a BC, otherwise probably not.
There could be a flavour of "maybe she'll get desperate" in his silence but we really don't know him very well.
Anyway, seems like it's time to broaden your dating pool.
posted by seanmpuckett at 7:35 AM on May 28, 2013 [3 favorites]
You can assume whatever you want of course, but you won't know if your assumption is right unless you talk to him (and then you still might not know, but at least you will have tried to find the truth rather than assume it).
posted by Dansaman at 8:05 AM on May 28, 2013
posted by Dansaman at 8:05 AM on May 28, 2013
I dunno, maybe this is just the late 20s guy in me but if you've been dating for 3 months and have had sex and this is the first time he's done it, I think you overreacted. Why couldn't he go out with his friends, call you for a booty call, and have a breakfast date in the morning and spend some time with you the next day? If he's a decent guy, he's not going to toss you cab fare as soon as it's done and put you out on the street.
But again, I don't know you, him, the relationship or the talks you've already had but I can speak from my perspective that I've already gone out, called the girl I was dating at 11, and had a date with her in the morning with no intention of transitioning it to just a booty call relationship. Sometimes you want the best of both worlds.
posted by lpcxa0 at 8:06 AM on May 28, 2013 [2 favorites]
But again, I don't know you, him, the relationship or the talks you've already had but I can speak from my perspective that I've already gone out, called the girl I was dating at 11, and had a date with her in the morning with no intention of transitioning it to just a booty call relationship. Sometimes you want the best of both worlds.
posted by lpcxa0 at 8:06 AM on May 28, 2013 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: J. Wilson -- not boyfriend/girlfriend. Recently clarified that the time we were spending was "date" time and not just "hanging out." His lack of ability to actually make plans to see me recently when that not has been the case in the past says lack of interest to me though.
Sat night I declined by saying that he should've made plans earlier.
Unfortunately, I don't really know what his intentions are but the situation felt inconsiderate.
posted by starsatnight at 8:09 AM on May 28, 2013 [2 favorites]
Sat night I declined by saying that he should've made plans earlier.
Unfortunately, I don't really know what his intentions are but the situation felt inconsiderate.
posted by starsatnight at 8:09 AM on May 28, 2013 [2 favorites]
FWIW, I don't think that this is a case of the guy wanting to take the OP out for a lovely breakfast date and some skipping through cornfields the next day, but he needed to say so at the time he asked her over, if that was the case. Communication works both ways.
I also don't think that this guy feels so secure as a couple with the OP already, that he feels comfortable inviting her over last thing at night without worrying that it looks disrespectful.
What I honestly think is happening here (sorry OP) is that he's probably lined up someone else, but there's no way to really know. One could certainly go on giving him the benefit of the doubt and asking him what he wants from the relationship and how worried the OP is that he just sees her as a booty call and was that really what he meant or was she just jumping to conclusions and she's sorry she accused him so harshly, but the pitfall with that is that he may simply tell her what she wants to hear.
This situation does, after all, resemble all the classic patterns of an exploitative and demeaning dating situation, and at a certain point you go beyond giving the benefit of the doubt and assuming the best intentions, and get into the realm of being a bit of a chump. This guy isn't acting like he wants a relationship or particularly values the OP, none of his words suggest it, and if the accusation of treating her like a booty call is enough to push him away, then oh, well.
posted by tel3path at 8:33 AM on May 28, 2013 [14 favorites]
I also don't think that this guy feels so secure as a couple with the OP already, that he feels comfortable inviting her over last thing at night without worrying that it looks disrespectful.
What I honestly think is happening here (sorry OP) is that he's probably lined up someone else, but there's no way to really know. One could certainly go on giving him the benefit of the doubt and asking him what he wants from the relationship and how worried the OP is that he just sees her as a booty call and was that really what he meant or was she just jumping to conclusions and she's sorry she accused him so harshly, but the pitfall with that is that he may simply tell her what she wants to hear.
This situation does, after all, resemble all the classic patterns of an exploitative and demeaning dating situation, and at a certain point you go beyond giving the benefit of the doubt and assuming the best intentions, and get into the realm of being a bit of a chump. This guy isn't acting like he wants a relationship or particularly values the OP, none of his words suggest it, and if the accusation of treating her like a booty call is enough to push him away, then oh, well.
posted by tel3path at 8:33 AM on May 28, 2013 [14 favorites]
Another vote here to leave it alone. No apology is needed from you. He treated you with less respect than you'd like from someone you're actually dating, and you let him know it was unacceptable. You did good.
It really sounds like this one is pretty wrapped up already--he seems to want you to be up for back-burner booty call duty, you clearly communicated that you're not interested in that kind of arrangement, and and he then apologized and let things rest there without trying to make an actual date with you. If he were interested in building a romantic relationship with you, he probably would have made it a point to remedy the situation by asking you out properly with advance notice. He didn't do that, though. Case closed. I agree with others--time to continue on down the road.
posted by anonnymoose at 9:12 AM on May 28, 2013 [9 favorites]
It really sounds like this one is pretty wrapped up already--he seems to want you to be up for back-burner booty call duty, you clearly communicated that you're not interested in that kind of arrangement, and and he then apologized and let things rest there without trying to make an actual date with you. If he were interested in building a romantic relationship with you, he probably would have made it a point to remedy the situation by asking you out properly with advance notice. He didn't do that, though. Case closed. I agree with others--time to continue on down the road.
posted by anonnymoose at 9:12 AM on May 28, 2013 [9 favorites]
...he feels comfortable inviting her over last thing at night without worrying that it looks disrespectful. Pretty much says it all. If you don't re-contact him, I predict radio silence from his end of things.
Honestly, who are these guys who feel compelled to string people along once they've figured out they're not really interested in the person, and what are they thinking? Some of them seem perfectly nice otherwise. Watching this thread closely.
posted by gohabsgo at 9:36 AM on May 28, 2013 [7 favorites]
Honestly, who are these guys who feel compelled to string people along once they've figured out they're not really interested in the person, and what are they thinking? Some of them seem perfectly nice otherwise. Watching this thread closely.
posted by gohabsgo at 9:36 AM on May 28, 2013 [7 favorites]
His lack of ability to actually make plans to see me recently when that not has been the case in the past says lack of interest to me though.
The other possibility is that normally he is able to make plans with you, but could not that weekend.
I mean, from what you're telling us the situation seems:
-you've been dating three months
-he normally makes plans with you and has real dates with you
-one weekend he couldn't make plans
-he wanted to see you/hook up with you after the other things he had to do that one weekend
Not really seeing the crime here. This is just based on what you told us. Maybe he is a jerk and your suspicions are correct, but that would really depend on how he treats you other times and why he couldn't make plans that one weekend.
posted by spaltavian at 9:37 AM on May 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
The other possibility is that normally he is able to make plans with you, but could not that weekend.
I mean, from what you're telling us the situation seems:
-you've been dating three months
-he normally makes plans with you and has real dates with you
-one weekend he couldn't make plans
-he wanted to see you/hook up with you after the other things he had to do that one weekend
Not really seeing the crime here. This is just based on what you told us. Maybe he is a jerk and your suspicions are correct, but that would really depend on how he treats you other times and why he couldn't make plans that one weekend.
posted by spaltavian at 9:37 AM on May 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: spaltavian -- didn't see him the weekend prior. He didn't make plans so neither did I. I see him usually only once a week bc we are both busy people... but the last few I have had to initate.
My gut feeling is that he likes me but is trying to keep me at arm's length to explore other things. I also have been not the most vocal about my feelings and I have expressed that a dating dealbreaker for me is clinginess, so there is a SMALL chance that he has been "playing it cool." (Doubt it). I kind of had a feeling this weekend would be make or break, and it's looking like break.
posted by starsatnight at 9:53 AM on May 28, 2013
My gut feeling is that he likes me but is trying to keep me at arm's length to explore other things. I also have been not the most vocal about my feelings and I have expressed that a dating dealbreaker for me is clinginess, so there is a SMALL chance that he has been "playing it cool." (Doubt it). I kind of had a feeling this weekend would be make or break, and it's looking like break.
posted by starsatnight at 9:53 AM on May 28, 2013
Response by poster: If you don't re-contact him, I predict radio silence from his end of things.
I've decided to leave it alone -- but I too am predicting radio silence.
posted by starsatnight at 9:56 AM on May 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
I've decided to leave it alone -- but I too am predicting radio silence.
posted by starsatnight at 9:56 AM on May 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
I was originally going to go against the grain and agree with lpcxa0, that I personally don't see what's wrong with a "booty call" here and there within a preexisting dating relationship. That doesn't have to mean that's all you are, some people just... like to see each other, and maybe even like to squeeze in some sex after other things. Nothing wrong with that, people. HOWEVER, the fact that you do think he's cooling off towards you in general, and the fact that he hasn't followed up and the fact that you weren't already girlfriend/boyfriend, doesn't really spell good things, and I'm definitely in agreement that you should leave the ball in his court at this point.
posted by celtalitha at 10:16 AM on May 28, 2013
posted by celtalitha at 10:16 AM on May 28, 2013
You could also just call him up and tell him it's not working out if you'd like more closure and a clean break.
posted by Asparagus at 10:31 AM on May 28, 2013
posted by Asparagus at 10:31 AM on May 28, 2013
I think it depends a lot on how the three months of dating have gone. If he's treated you respectfully and like a priority for those three months, I think he deserves benefit of the doubt in this situation. You say you "sense he was losing interest." Well, if that's true, I suggest you not worry about this incident and move on with your life.
I think it was absolutely commendable for you to stand up for your needs and draw the line at what seemed to be booty calls. But it is also valid and commendable for him to take exception to your characterizing his invitation as a "booty call," and be offended by your ascribing such motives to hin, because it might not have been a booty call.
Each of you may be in the right, and this is simply a breakdown in communication.
But my feeling is that you jumped the gun, and you're too quick to question his motives and that you were rather insulting to him in doing so. If I were him, I'd probably wash my hands of you.
posted by Unified Theory at 11:05 AM on May 28, 2013
I think it was absolutely commendable for you to stand up for your needs and draw the line at what seemed to be booty calls. But it is also valid and commendable for him to take exception to your characterizing his invitation as a "booty call," and be offended by your ascribing such motives to hin, because it might not have been a booty call.
Each of you may be in the right, and this is simply a breakdown in communication.
But my feeling is that you jumped the gun, and you're too quick to question his motives and that you were rather insulting to him in doing so. If I were him, I'd probably wash my hands of you.
posted by Unified Theory at 11:05 AM on May 28, 2013
There's a lot of mind-reading going on here. Can I suggest that the best way to approach this is to meet up with him for a coffee and talk about what happened? There are a heck of a lot of men (myself included) who sometimes send the wrong signal, or misunderstand what's going on. If you like things with him and want them to continue, you should at least try and find out what went on for yourself, rather than relying on the guesswork of internet people.
posted by prentiz at 11:19 AM on May 28, 2013
posted by prentiz at 11:19 AM on May 28, 2013
Putting (static) stickers on actions, such as "booty call", never helps to understand a dynamic situation.
Oh, would that that were true! The deeper truth is that some "dynamic situations" are just vainglorious retreads of "secretly seeking escape hatch," via downgrading to booty call. The days of hanging in until the escapee cheats, which is the next stop on the passive aggressive train, need to be over.
posted by thinkpiece at 12:34 PM on May 28, 2013 [7 favorites]
Oh, would that that were true! The deeper truth is that some "dynamic situations" are just vainglorious retreads of "secretly seeking escape hatch," via downgrading to booty call. The days of hanging in until the escapee cheats, which is the next stop on the passive aggressive train, need to be over.
posted by thinkpiece at 12:34 PM on May 28, 2013 [7 favorites]
He sounds like a disrespectful and lazy dude with an inability to communicate. Ugh, who wants to lug that guy around? imagine actually having him as a boyfriend. You'd probably have to spell it out for him that it's not cool to pick his nose in public. Good for you for shedding this waste of time. Women are socialized to be nice and forgiving and kind to everyone, to not trust their gut or assert themselves in the face of confusing and disrespectful behavior. But you did him a huge favor. Sometimes you just have to point out to a person that pissing on your shoes while telling you it's rain is dickish and immature. You're a person and deserve to be treated respectfully.
posted by discopolo at 1:13 PM on May 28, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by discopolo at 1:13 PM on May 28, 2013 [2 favorites]
Can I suggest that the best way to approach this is to meet up with him for a coffee and talk about what happened?
If he doesn't have time to make plans, how is he going to find time to meet up for a coffee? Especially a coffee for the hugely enjoyable purpose of Talking About Their Relationship and comparing communication styles? ("You mean I'm from Planet Asker and you're from Planet Guesser?" "You mean I'm an INTJ and you're an ENTJ?" Especially when he has only recently had a Talk About The Relationship with her, in which he (he) has upgraded their situation from 'vaguely hanging out' to 'dating'? (Does it mean whatever he wants it to mean?)
And what would likely be said at this meeting that hasn't already been said? She tries to make firm plans, he can't or won't; he instead calls her late at night, two nights running; she lets him know how this makes her feel (like a "booty call", instead of like a "date" which is what she wants to be). He replies that he regrets making her feel like a booty call and that he will arrange a date in the near future.
He doesn't, I bet he continues to not do so, because a) so far his actions don't match his words, whereas they do match the profile of someone who says whatever he needs to and b) why the heck would he want to date someone who talks his ear off about every little thing?
Seriously, how many "define the relationship" talks can you reasonably have with someone in this short space of time? [Insert that Monty Python gif where a businessman gets up from the meeting table and jumps out the window.]
posted by tel3path at 1:23 PM on May 28, 2013 [5 favorites]
If he doesn't have time to make plans, how is he going to find time to meet up for a coffee? Especially a coffee for the hugely enjoyable purpose of Talking About Their Relationship and comparing communication styles? ("You mean I'm from Planet Asker and you're from Planet Guesser?" "You mean I'm an INTJ and you're an ENTJ?" Especially when he has only recently had a Talk About The Relationship with her, in which he (he) has upgraded their situation from 'vaguely hanging out' to 'dating'? (Does it mean whatever he wants it to mean?)
And what would likely be said at this meeting that hasn't already been said? She tries to make firm plans, he can't or won't; he instead calls her late at night, two nights running; she lets him know how this makes her feel (like a "booty call", instead of like a "date" which is what she wants to be). He replies that he regrets making her feel like a booty call and that he will arrange a date in the near future.
He doesn't, I bet he continues to not do so, because a) so far his actions don't match his words, whereas they do match the profile of someone who says whatever he needs to and b) why the heck would he want to date someone who talks his ear off about every little thing?
Seriously, how many "define the relationship" talks can you reasonably have with someone in this short space of time? [Insert that Monty Python gif where a businessman gets up from the meeting table and jumps out the window.]
posted by tel3path at 1:23 PM on May 28, 2013 [5 favorites]
Can I suggest that the best way to approach this is to meet up with him for a coffee and talk about what happened?
OP isn't desperate and doesn't have to be his mom and talk about his behavior, spoon feed him, change his diaper, and tell him not to eat his boogers. There are loads of other guys she could hang with who are mature, excellent in bed, and not scared little boys afraid of mommy not liking them, and who need mommy to kiss all their emotional owies and booboos.
You are awesome, OP. Wish more women wouldn't let themselves get treated like they're just walking genitals whose sole purpose is to coax men into treating them like people.
posted by discopolo at 1:31 PM on May 28, 2013 [15 favorites]
OP isn't desperate and doesn't have to be his mom and talk about his behavior, spoon feed him, change his diaper, and tell him not to eat his boogers. There are loads of other guys she could hang with who are mature, excellent in bed, and not scared little boys afraid of mommy not liking them, and who need mommy to kiss all their emotional owies and booboos.
You are awesome, OP. Wish more women wouldn't let themselves get treated like they're just walking genitals whose sole purpose is to coax men into treating them like people.
posted by discopolo at 1:31 PM on May 28, 2013 [15 favorites]
Response by poster: Seriously, how many "define the relationship" talks can you reasonably have with someone in this short space of time?
There hasn't been one. The date/hang out distinction was just two sentences amidst part of another completely unrelated conversation. We haven't spent enough time for me to feel comfortable having a "what are we" talk, which is why I was attempting to spend more time, why I don't think he should feel comfortable making last minute plans when I asked in advance, and why I interpreted it the way I did.
@discopolo, thank you kindly :)
posted by starsatnight at 1:54 PM on May 28, 2013
There hasn't been one. The date/hang out distinction was just two sentences amidst part of another completely unrelated conversation. We haven't spent enough time for me to feel comfortable having a "what are we" talk, which is why I was attempting to spend more time, why I don't think he should feel comfortable making last minute plans when I asked in advance, and why I interpreted it the way I did.
@discopolo, thank you kindly :)
posted by starsatnight at 1:54 PM on May 28, 2013
No one here can tell you what he's thinking, and without knowing what he's thinking, there's no way to know how you should react. Anyone who suggests otherwise is wrong. The reason even you don't know what he's thinking is that you're not communicating.
"We haven't spent enough time for me to feel comfortable having a "what are we" talk"
If, at three months in, you can't get close enough to talk about that sort of thing, no amount of time is going to get you there. I've dated women who initiated that talk before we had sex - not because they were prudes. It was because they weren't looking for casual sex.
The real question here is, why don't you feel comfortable having that talk? Clearly, it matters to you. Putting it off leads to situations like this.
Talk to him.
posted by 2oh1 at 2:06 PM on May 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
"We haven't spent enough time for me to feel comfortable having a "what are we" talk"
If, at three months in, you can't get close enough to talk about that sort of thing, no amount of time is going to get you there. I've dated women who initiated that talk before we had sex - not because they were prudes. It was because they weren't looking for casual sex.
The real question here is, why don't you feel comfortable having that talk? Clearly, it matters to you. Putting it off leads to situations like this.
Talk to him.
posted by 2oh1 at 2:06 PM on May 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
These things usually aren't negotiated through detailed discussion, but through one person taking a lead and the other one following, or trying to maneuver in another direction, or protesting.
Here is what happened:
you: lead in your preferred direction
he: steers in his preferred direction
you: protest
he: agrees to follow
he: [may or may not follow, probably won't]
I advocate clear communication, but not overcommunication. If this situation is as it appears, talking about it won't change that.
If I had to pick one thing you could do differently next time, however, it's the teen-health-class-style advice "don't do anything with another person that you can't talk about - with that person".
If you didn't feel comfortable talking about whether you were dating, it's probably because you accurately sensed that you were on shaky ground. But then, I also can't imagine you could have felt all that comfortable having sex with him, since you didn't yet have enough intimacy and trust to even have a conversation. In which case, no wonder you lost your cool.
I now have more sympathy for the view that he didn't understand what kind of relationship you were in, though I still believe he presumed too much.
Nevertheless, you've now both made yourselves clear: you're not a booty call, you said so in so many words. You would like to date him, you said so in so many words. If he also wants that, he'll make arrangements like he said he would.
posted by tel3path at 2:26 PM on May 28, 2013 [2 favorites]
Here is what happened:
you: lead in your preferred direction
he: steers in his preferred direction
you: protest
he: agrees to follow
he: [may or may not follow, probably won't]
I advocate clear communication, but not overcommunication. If this situation is as it appears, talking about it won't change that.
If I had to pick one thing you could do differently next time, however, it's the teen-health-class-style advice "don't do anything with another person that you can't talk about - with that person".
If you didn't feel comfortable talking about whether you were dating, it's probably because you accurately sensed that you were on shaky ground. But then, I also can't imagine you could have felt all that comfortable having sex with him, since you didn't yet have enough intimacy and trust to even have a conversation. In which case, no wonder you lost your cool.
I now have more sympathy for the view that he didn't understand what kind of relationship you were in, though I still believe he presumed too much.
Nevertheless, you've now both made yourselves clear: you're not a booty call, you said so in so many words. You would like to date him, you said so in so many words. If he also wants that, he'll make arrangements like he said he would.
posted by tel3path at 2:26 PM on May 28, 2013 [2 favorites]
Considering the circumstances, this really does not seem like an appropriate situation for the Relationship Talk. You've already communicated clearly with him about your concern, and he's answered with radio silence after apologizing. Life is too short to try to arm-wrestle someone into meeting your basic dating expectations, especially this early on (three months!). Really, the only appropriate State of the Union conversation at this point would be one initiated BY HIM to assuage your concerns about the pattern you've mentioned, letting you know he's present and interested in seeing you romantically. You are under zero obligation to chase him down and make him communicate with you further (which frankly sounds like it would be really awkward). Save the relationship talks for someone who shows he is invested in pursuing a relationship with you. In the meantime, please enjoy all the time you won't be wasting on a man who only asks you out when all his other options are in bed for the evening.
I commend you heartily for your self-respect and mature behavior.
posted by anonnymoose at 2:33 PM on May 28, 2013 [5 favorites]
I commend you heartily for your self-respect and mature behavior.
posted by anonnymoose at 2:33 PM on May 28, 2013 [5 favorites]
Response by poster: The real question here is, why don't you feel comfortable having that talk? Clearly, it matters to you. Putting it off leads to situations like this.
It's been a very long time since it has mattered. Lesson learned on that front.
posted by starsatnight at 2:43 PM on May 28, 2013
It's been a very long time since it has mattered. Lesson learned on that front.
posted by starsatnight at 2:43 PM on May 28, 2013
Response by poster: Re: It's been a very long time since it has mattered. Lesson learned on that front.
Definitely no question that I should have been more clear in my communication from the beginning, I guess my real concern was if it was too late to start.
posted by starsatnight at 2:48 PM on May 28, 2013
Definitely no question that I should have been more clear in my communication from the beginning, I guess my real concern was if it was too late to start.
posted by starsatnight at 2:48 PM on May 28, 2013
What if he had plans for the weekend, of unknown duration, and once those plans were done he reached out to see you because he wanted to...and once finding out from you that such an approach doesn't fly with you, he figured he'd better wait until he's certain of his availability before contacting you? It's only Tuesday, and this just happened over the weekend, right? Just putting that out there.
posted by davejay at 4:22 PM on May 28, 2013
posted by davejay at 4:22 PM on May 28, 2013
Response by poster: Davejay -- Yeah, I guess I can only wait and see. Normally he would've texted me about a show that was on last night, but I can see why he wouldn't have this time. If a week goes by, then I guess I'll have my answer.
posted by starsatnight at 5:09 PM on May 28, 2013
posted by starsatnight at 5:09 PM on May 28, 2013
Response by poster: I've just been struggling with whether or not I should have explained my actions in response to his. Regardless, I won't tolerate his approach, but perhaps I should have handled it differently.
posted by starsatnight at 5:12 PM on May 28, 2013
posted by starsatnight at 5:12 PM on May 28, 2013
Mod note: Heya, starsatnight, it's fine if you need to post clarifying followup comment or two into a question based on feedback and whatnot, but try not to get in the habit of leaving a lot of comments in here or treating this like a discussion space. AskMe's really mostly for asking your question and then stepping back and letting people answer.
posted by cortex (staff) at 5:30 PM on May 28, 2013
posted by cortex (staff) at 5:30 PM on May 28, 2013
I've just been struggling with whether or not I should have explained my actions in response to his. Regardless, I won't tolerate his approach, but perhaps I should have handled it differently.
Nah. 1. Why should you do all the work? 2. If he needs so much spelled out, then he clearly isn't in your intellectual or emotional league. If he really respected you and liked you, he would have nutted up and called you/texted you today instead of going into hiding.
Go pour yourself a glass of wine and browse through OKC profiles for some smart hotties for a half hour. Guaranteed to provide laughs and make the weird dude blues go away. (Warning: May also make you immensely grateful to be single. It's a win either way, frankly.)
posted by discopolo at 5:42 PM on May 28, 2013
Nah. 1. Why should you do all the work? 2. If he needs so much spelled out, then he clearly isn't in your intellectual or emotional league. If he really respected you and liked you, he would have nutted up and called you/texted you today instead of going into hiding.
Go pour yourself a glass of wine and browse through OKC profiles for some smart hotties for a half hour. Guaranteed to provide laughs and make the weird dude blues go away. (Warning: May also make you immensely grateful to be single. It's a win either way, frankly.)
posted by discopolo at 5:42 PM on May 28, 2013
Best answer: I've just been struggling with whether or not I should have explained my actions in response to his. Regardless, I won't tolerate his approach, but perhaps I should have handled it differently.
You handled it fine. From everything you've said, he's been allowing you to pursue him while he puts in minimal effort on his part. This hand-wringing you're doing now, doubting yourself and wondering if you did the right thing, is happening because he's not giving you anything to work with. He is not extending himself to you and he is not being open, but he is also not turning you down outright. Three months into a once-a-week dating relationship that has yet to progress into anything else, that says to me that he's been stringing you along.
Considering you just asked an equally doubting question about him a week ago, it sounds like this pairing has probably run its course, even if he contacts you again.
posted by wondermouse at 6:36 PM on May 28, 2013 [7 favorites]
You handled it fine. From everything you've said, he's been allowing you to pursue him while he puts in minimal effort on his part. This hand-wringing you're doing now, doubting yourself and wondering if you did the right thing, is happening because he's not giving you anything to work with. He is not extending himself to you and he is not being open, but he is also not turning you down outright. Three months into a once-a-week dating relationship that has yet to progress into anything else, that says to me that he's been stringing you along.
Considering you just asked an equally doubting question about him a week ago, it sounds like this pairing has probably run its course, even if he contacts you again.
posted by wondermouse at 6:36 PM on May 28, 2013 [7 favorites]
I see him usually only once a week bc we are both busy people... but the last few I have had to initate.
You can do so much better than this. No matter who you are, no matter where you are.
posted by htid at 8:23 PM on May 28, 2013 [2 favorites]
You can do so much better than this. No matter who you are, no matter where you are.
posted by htid at 8:23 PM on May 28, 2013 [2 favorites]
You can do so much better than this. No matter who you are, no matter where you are.
Do better than what? Having to initiate the "last few" meetups? He should have to do all of it? Doing all of them until the "last few" isn't good enough for anyone "no matter who you are, no matter where you are". A lot of comments in this thread are about making Strong Affirmations of something, rather than what actually happened.
posted by spaltavian at 6:15 AM on June 17, 2013
Do better than what? Having to initiate the "last few" meetups? He should have to do all of it? Doing all of them until the "last few" isn't good enough for anyone "no matter who you are, no matter where you are". A lot of comments in this thread are about making Strong Affirmations of something, rather than what actually happened.
posted by spaltavian at 6:15 AM on June 17, 2013
Response by poster: RESOLVED: We haven't spoken since. Clearly, didn't mean that much to him. Thanks, all.
posted by starsatnight at 12:53 PM on June 27, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by starsatnight at 12:53 PM on June 27, 2013 [1 favorite]
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