Accepting help from friends will cost you
May 31, 2012 12:04 PM Subscribe
I moved from one state to another and my friends, whom I'm staying with for a month and a half, are charging me "rent" and the amount is absurd. How do I process this?
When I told my friends (they are a married couple) I was moving to their state, they were excited and offered their second bedroom to me while I found my own apartment. I accepted, and did of course offer to pay something.
We never had a conversation prior to me staying with them about the amount, nor during my time here. They jokingly said they were going to charge me rent. Well, last night, they finally told me what they want to charge me for staying with them: $200/week. Rent is the right word!
I've been here a month and a half and move out tomorrow. So, my total "rent" is $1,200. To me, that's a lot.
Now, I have chipped in for groceries, have paid for dinner a few times, have even filled up their car with gas (they've driven me around only a handful of times as I'm mostly taking public transportation). I've bought my own alcohol, paid for any food and personal items that are 100% meant for me. Of course I've cleaned and been a good guest.
Let me be clear: I'm not a freeloader, I know how to be respectful, nor are we eating caviar and drinking champagne. My plan was to contribute about $500 dollars at the end of my stay. There's no way I have cost them $1200 during my stay. It's just... strange because this was not presented as a boarding situation, but as an offer to help me out. Turns out, it's not that much of a help! For perspective, my rent in my previous state was $2,000.
This isn't a new friendship, I've known the couple for over 7 years. I just can't help but feel taken advantage of, even though $1200 is less than one month's rent in my old place.
Anecdata: I did check on Craigslist how much rooms for rent are in this new city, and the monthly amount they're charging is average for this location.
Thoughts? I'm not going to end my friendship with them over this, but it's shocking that they think this is ok and I'm not sure how to view them or our friendship at this point. I would never dream of asking for this amount from someone I consider a friend. Frankly, I would never dream of asking for money from a friend staying with me, period.
I just don't know how to process this. I didn't argue over the amount, I just accepted it. So, how do I move forward from this and retain what I thought was a strong friendship?
When I told my friends (they are a married couple) I was moving to their state, they were excited and offered their second bedroom to me while I found my own apartment. I accepted, and did of course offer to pay something.
We never had a conversation prior to me staying with them about the amount, nor during my time here. They jokingly said they were going to charge me rent. Well, last night, they finally told me what they want to charge me for staying with them: $200/week. Rent is the right word!
I've been here a month and a half and move out tomorrow. So, my total "rent" is $1,200. To me, that's a lot.
Now, I have chipped in for groceries, have paid for dinner a few times, have even filled up their car with gas (they've driven me around only a handful of times as I'm mostly taking public transportation). I've bought my own alcohol, paid for any food and personal items that are 100% meant for me. Of course I've cleaned and been a good guest.
Let me be clear: I'm not a freeloader, I know how to be respectful, nor are we eating caviar and drinking champagne. My plan was to contribute about $500 dollars at the end of my stay. There's no way I have cost them $1200 during my stay. It's just... strange because this was not presented as a boarding situation, but as an offer to help me out. Turns out, it's not that much of a help! For perspective, my rent in my previous state was $2,000.
This isn't a new friendship, I've known the couple for over 7 years. I just can't help but feel taken advantage of, even though $1200 is less than one month's rent in my old place.
Anecdata: I did check on Craigslist how much rooms for rent are in this new city, and the monthly amount they're charging is average for this location.
Thoughts? I'm not going to end my friendship with them over this, but it's shocking that they think this is ok and I'm not sure how to view them or our friendship at this point. I would never dream of asking for this amount from someone I consider a friend. Frankly, I would never dream of asking for money from a friend staying with me, period.
I just don't know how to process this. I didn't argue over the amount, I just accepted it. So, how do I move forward from this and retain what I thought was a strong friendship?
Meh. If communication doesn't work, I'd simply leave them the amount you had intended to give them in an envelope. If they intend to pursue the remainder, I'd give them some silent treatment for a while.
posted by sibboleth at 12:13 PM on May 31, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by sibboleth at 12:13 PM on May 31, 2012 [1 favorite]
wow. I'm totally on your side. obviously, you should have settled on the amount before your stay, but hindsight is 20-20. I think you should confront them with complete honesty -- that while you're grateful for their generosity at letting you stay, you're taken aback by the amount, and you'd expected something closer to $500. if you pay without comment, they'll have no idea you feel this is out of line.
posted by changeling at 12:14 PM on May 31, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by changeling at 12:14 PM on May 31, 2012 [4 favorites]
You should speak up if it bothers you.
If you do, it might impact the friendship. If you don't, it most certainly will, because you're never going to be able to get the thought out of your head that they took advantage of you. Nice for them -- they got their rent/mortgage subsidized for six weeks!
All of you should have addressed this right at the beginning.
posted by rhombus at 12:14 PM on May 31, 2012 [11 favorites]
If you do, it might impact the friendship. If you don't, it most certainly will, because you're never going to be able to get the thought out of your head that they took advantage of you. Nice for them -- they got their rent/mortgage subsidized for six weeks!
All of you should have addressed this right at the beginning.
posted by rhombus at 12:14 PM on May 31, 2012 [11 favorites]
Perhaps you could bring it up with your friends. You might start by paying them a portion of what you owe, then say that the total is beyond your means. Then you could ask whether the amount is negotiable.
Could this be an Ask vs. Guess kind of a thing? I'm far from an expert in such matters, but if they expected you to specify the amount of rent you would be willing to pay and you never mentioned it, is there a chance that they think the $1,200 is a leaping-off point for a negotiation?
I don't know where you are, and I don't know your friends, but I don't feel the amount is excessive - for my area.
posted by S'Tella Fabula at 12:15 PM on May 31, 2012 [3 favorites]
Could this be an Ask vs. Guess kind of a thing? I'm far from an expert in such matters, but if they expected you to specify the amount of rent you would be willing to pay and you never mentioned it, is there a chance that they think the $1,200 is a leaping-off point for a negotiation?
I don't know where you are, and I don't know your friends, but I don't feel the amount is excessive - for my area.
posted by S'Tella Fabula at 12:15 PM on May 31, 2012 [3 favorites]
Anecdata: I did check on Craigslist how much rooms for rent are in this new city, and the monthly amount they're charging is average for this location.
Then they probably don't even suspect that you have a problem with it.
You can certainly tell them that they are asking far more than you expected, but you realize that you should have discussed expectations at the beginning, not the end.
How you move forward is up to you. I mean, you say you can't imagine charging a friend to stay, but I can't imagine staying that long with someone without *insisting* on doing so up front and deciding the amount, because I don't want to be a freeloader nor do I want mismanaged expectations to nuke a friendship. (In fact, in a similar position, I chose to rent a room from strangers rather than stay with friends I had here.) So, maybe you accept that everybody screwed this up and write it off to a valuable lesson learned.
posted by Lyn Never at 12:15 PM on May 31, 2012 [9 favorites]
Then they probably don't even suspect that you have a problem with it.
You can certainly tell them that they are asking far more than you expected, but you realize that you should have discussed expectations at the beginning, not the end.
How you move forward is up to you. I mean, you say you can't imagine charging a friend to stay, but I can't imagine staying that long with someone without *insisting* on doing so up front and deciding the amount, because I don't want to be a freeloader nor do I want mismanaged expectations to nuke a friendship. (In fact, in a similar position, I chose to rent a room from strangers rather than stay with friends I had here.) So, maybe you accept that everybody screwed this up and write it off to a valuable lesson learned.
posted by Lyn Never at 12:15 PM on May 31, 2012 [9 favorites]
Not being up-front over what they would charge you is kind of a rotten thing to do, and not asking up front what they needed per week or per month is kind of a foolish thing to do.
Both parties made a pretty serious error in judgement. If it doesn't break the bank and leave you in the lurch, I'd call it even - you've learned something about them, and something about yourself.
posted by Slap*Happy at 12:15 PM on May 31, 2012 [3 favorites]
Both parties made a pretty serious error in judgement. If it doesn't break the bank and leave you in the lurch, I'd call it even - you've learned something about them, and something about yourself.
posted by Slap*Happy at 12:15 PM on May 31, 2012 [3 favorites]
So you said you'd pay "something" and they are charging you 60% of one month of your previous rent for 1.5 months of staying with them? Sounds like a pretty good deal to me, actually.
posted by Grither at 12:17 PM on May 31, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by Grither at 12:17 PM on May 31, 2012 [5 favorites]
Where is this? If it's New York or San Francisco, those prices aren't out of line for a short term rental. And, frankly, $1200 for six weeks would potentially be a deal depending on where they live and what the apartment is like.
How close are the friends?
I mean, if it was my absolute best friend in the world, someone who was practically family? This would not be OK with me, and I would feel really taken advantage of. But if this was an acquaintance or someone I only knew moderately well, I would feel like this was fair.
How does your length of stay factor into this? Six weeks is a long time. Maybe they thought it was like a two week thing? It definitely goes beyond "let me crash for a few days while I sort out some housing", and even beyond "it's hard to find an apartment for the 11th of the month". Six weeks is a living situation, not a visit or a crashing kind of deal. If I told someone new to my city that they could bunk in with me till they found a place, and going on two months later they were still living in my apartment, I would charge them full market rate, too. Because at that point you don't have a houseguest, you have a roommate.
posted by Sara C. at 12:17 PM on May 31, 2012 [24 favorites]
How close are the friends?
I mean, if it was my absolute best friend in the world, someone who was practically family? This would not be OK with me, and I would feel really taken advantage of. But if this was an acquaintance or someone I only knew moderately well, I would feel like this was fair.
How does your length of stay factor into this? Six weeks is a long time. Maybe they thought it was like a two week thing? It definitely goes beyond "let me crash for a few days while I sort out some housing", and even beyond "it's hard to find an apartment for the 11th of the month". Six weeks is a living situation, not a visit or a crashing kind of deal. If I told someone new to my city that they could bunk in with me till they found a place, and going on two months later they were still living in my apartment, I would charge them full market rate, too. Because at that point you don't have a houseguest, you have a roommate.
posted by Sara C. at 12:17 PM on May 31, 2012 [24 favorites]
I'm definitely with you on this. And as uncomfortable as it must be to bring this up, I think you must in order to salvage your relationship with them. I would be tempted, if I had the cash, to just hand it to them and try to let it go. But then of course I would stew over it and not really consider them friends anymore. So I think broaching this with them is the best thing to do, and start by saying I realize we should have discussed this much more clearly before I started staying with you, but I must tell you this really caught me by surprise... Good luck.
posted by ohyouknow at 12:17 PM on May 31, 2012
posted by ohyouknow at 12:17 PM on May 31, 2012
If they charged you the fair market rate, I don't see an issue. If you can afford that, you should pay it. Keep in mind that it's not like they didn't "help you out" at all... even if the price is the same, finding an acceptable room and knowing it will be OK and that you can trust your roommates is a huge help when moving to a new city.
There was a breakdown in communication on both sides here and you can learn a lesson from this situation. I don't think that being charged a fair market rate shows you "what kind of people" your friends are or anything like that -- I think it just shows that you were looking at this situation from a different perspective and the three of you never communicated clearly.
posted by telegraph at 12:19 PM on May 31, 2012 [4 favorites]
There was a breakdown in communication on both sides here and you can learn a lesson from this situation. I don't think that being charged a fair market rate shows you "what kind of people" your friends are or anything like that -- I think it just shows that you were looking at this situation from a different perspective and the three of you never communicated clearly.
posted by telegraph at 12:19 PM on May 31, 2012 [4 favorites]
I actually feel like there's guess culture in play on both sides -- the "jokes" about rent, the fact that neither party discussed an amount early on, and that you accepted the amount without speaking up when they presented it to you. I don't think guess versus guess makes things any easier; it means they'll probably be startled when you put your ask hat on, but it needs to happen if you want to retain the friendship.
posted by changeling at 12:19 PM on May 31, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by changeling at 12:19 PM on May 31, 2012 [4 favorites]
6 weeks is a long time, I would expect you to chip in for rent as well.... although I would have had that conversation before you moved in. You both screwed up by trying to be polite about it at the beginning and now your expectations are different.
$200/week including utilities would be completely reasonable in my area. You're paying about half as much for 6 weeks as you are used to paying in a month? Sounds like you got a good deal to me and that your friends are being fair. I would pay it unless you think $700 is worth the drama.
posted by bradbane at 12:20 PM on May 31, 2012 [2 favorites]
$200/week including utilities would be completely reasonable in my area. You're paying about half as much for 6 weeks as you are used to paying in a month? Sounds like you got a good deal to me and that your friends are being fair. I would pay it unless you think $700 is worth the drama.
posted by bradbane at 12:20 PM on May 31, 2012 [2 favorites]
I don't understand people saying it's okay if they charged you what rent usually is in your city. I don't buy my landlord groceries. I don't clean his house. I don't hang out and socialize with him and all that. I'd say, "I'm so sorry, $1200 is a bit steep for me right now. Can I give you $500 and call it even?" I can't imagine they would demand you pay, if you really are friends, but if they do, I'd just repeat that I can't afford it and never talk to them again.
posted by amodelcitizen at 12:22 PM on May 31, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by amodelcitizen at 12:22 PM on May 31, 2012 [7 favorites]
The classy thing to do is to just pay it, assuming you can afford it.
And, if you want to bring it up, bring it up in a backhanded way. "I appreciate your giving me such a good rate," with a big smile.
If they have any class, they'll say something like, "I guess we should have talked about it beforehand," or, alternately, "we appreciate your helping out with our mortgage.
If they'd brought up the $200 a week beforehand, would you have felt it was a good deal for a six week stay?
Personally, I would consider it pretty tacky to ask for cash in this circumstance, but then I probably wouldn't put someone up for six weeks, either.
posted by musofire at 12:24 PM on May 31, 2012
And, if you want to bring it up, bring it up in a backhanded way. "I appreciate your giving me such a good rate," with a big smile.
If they have any class, they'll say something like, "I guess we should have talked about it beforehand," or, alternately, "we appreciate your helping out with our mortgage.
If they'd brought up the $200 a week beforehand, would you have felt it was a good deal for a six week stay?
Personally, I would consider it pretty tacky to ask for cash in this circumstance, but then I probably wouldn't put someone up for six weeks, either.
posted by musofire at 12:24 PM on May 31, 2012
I'm not totally on your side.
We never had a conversation prior to me staying with them about the amount, nor during my time here. They jokingly said they were going to charge me rent.
They obviously weren't joking and this was obviously a huge mistake. I realize that they offered this to you but you did offer to pay, and having an outside person in your home for a month and a half is hardly a minor imposition.
Okay but obviously correcting the core mistake (moving into their home without discussing terms) is impossible so what now. The thing least likely to negatively impact the friendship is to simply pay. They applied some idea of what was reasonable and obviously it was self-serving but in their minds they have given you a fair deal. Given that you lived during this period for 40% of your usual housing costs it seems like it isn't that far off the mark.
Of course you are well within your rights to negotiate but you better decide up front what you're going to do if they balk or ask to split the difference between what you want to pay and what they asked and so on. If I were in your shoes and was able I'd probably chalk it up to experience and eat it, and tell myself my friends have a different perspective on money than I do and though it seemed like a lot to me it must have seemed reasonable to them and just move past it. If paying this would be a literal hardship you should say so. If you need time to pay it you should say so.
posted by nanojath at 12:24 PM on May 31, 2012 [6 favorites]
We never had a conversation prior to me staying with them about the amount, nor during my time here. They jokingly said they were going to charge me rent.
They obviously weren't joking and this was obviously a huge mistake. I realize that they offered this to you but you did offer to pay, and having an outside person in your home for a month and a half is hardly a minor imposition.
Okay but obviously correcting the core mistake (moving into their home without discussing terms) is impossible so what now. The thing least likely to negatively impact the friendship is to simply pay. They applied some idea of what was reasonable and obviously it was self-serving but in their minds they have given you a fair deal. Given that you lived during this period for 40% of your usual housing costs it seems like it isn't that far off the mark.
Of course you are well within your rights to negotiate but you better decide up front what you're going to do if they balk or ask to split the difference between what you want to pay and what they asked and so on. If I were in your shoes and was able I'd probably chalk it up to experience and eat it, and tell myself my friends have a different perspective on money than I do and though it seemed like a lot to me it must have seemed reasonable to them and just move past it. If paying this would be a literal hardship you should say so. If you need time to pay it you should say so.
posted by nanojath at 12:24 PM on May 31, 2012 [6 favorites]
This should be cost-neutral for them. It's not cool to make a profit off of you. Take the square footage of your room, divide it by the square footage of the apartment, and pay that portion of their rent or mortgage. If you're buying groceries and helping out around the house, they should write off any contribution to the common areas and utilities.
Sure, it's a burden to have a houseguest for that long of a time, but they were excited about it, offered you use of their space without you asking for it. Buyer AND seller beware, in this case.
posted by moammargaret at 12:27 PM on May 31, 2012 [7 favorites]
Sure, it's a burden to have a houseguest for that long of a time, but they were excited about it, offered you use of their space without you asking for it. Buyer AND seller beware, in this case.
posted by moammargaret at 12:27 PM on May 31, 2012 [7 favorites]
I think it's one thing to claim this is "reasonable" rent if you were essentially a stranger or barely an acquaintance. I think it's another thing to call it "reasonable" when they offered the room as friends with the understanding you would make a contribution of some kind. (Though clearly assigning a figure up front would have been best.)
On the other hand, six weeks is quite a long time to stay with someone, even if it is a reasonable amount of time to find an apartment. If they only expected you to stay 2-3 weeks, it may have been a bit of a burden on them.
I think I'd offer $150 per week if I could afford it, which should more than cover your share of utilities and whatnot, and also cover a bit of the burden. "Hey I really hadn't budgeted that much, but I know I was here for longer than I hoped. Can I give you $150 per week and call it even?
posted by Glinn at 12:28 PM on May 31, 2012 [1 favorite]
On the other hand, six weeks is quite a long time to stay with someone, even if it is a reasonable amount of time to find an apartment. If they only expected you to stay 2-3 weeks, it may have been a bit of a burden on them.
I think I'd offer $150 per week if I could afford it, which should more than cover your share of utilities and whatnot, and also cover a bit of the burden. "Hey I really hadn't budgeted that much, but I know I was here for longer than I hoped. Can I give you $150 per week and call it even?
posted by Glinn at 12:28 PM on May 31, 2012 [1 favorite]
Are you preventing them from renting the second bedroom to another tenant? If so, I think the $1200 is not unreasonable (even though I don't think I would charge my friend that amount of money to stay with me, and I'm in expensive NYC).
If it's just kind of their spare room it's really not cool for them to charge you that much.
posted by mlle valentine at 12:28 PM on May 31, 2012 [10 favorites]
If it's just kind of their spare room it's really not cool for them to charge you that much.
posted by mlle valentine at 12:28 PM on May 31, 2012 [10 favorites]
Even if the amount is reasonable for the area, I dunno... It just seems weird to me. I've had friends stay at my house many times while they were moving or just needed a place to be elsewhere for a while. Sometimes for a week, sometimes for a few months. And I never considered charging them rent. Sure, it's expected that they'll help out around the house and chip in for groceries (was never a problem), but to me, the whole point is that I get to enjoy their company for a while and help them out. Isn't that what friends are for? Now, sure, if they wanted to offer some payment at the end of their stay, I'd probably take it after some arm-twisting... But I just can't wrap my head around the idea of charging a friend (especially one I've known for seven years!) rent to use the spare room while they're relocating. And certainly not after the fact, when an amount hasn't even been discussed.
I think your friend is out of line, and is taking advantage of you.
posted by xedrik at 12:29 PM on May 31, 2012 [3 favorites]
I think your friend is out of line, and is taking advantage of you.
posted by xedrik at 12:29 PM on May 31, 2012 [3 favorites]
I just want to make sure I'm clear on what's going on here.
You told your friends you were moving to their state. They offered you a place to stay. You offered some sort of financial compensation for the use of their guest room.
No conversation was ever had about what that compensation might be.
A month and a half later - the day before you move out - they informed you that the cost they have decided on - after the fact and without consulting you - is two hundred dollars a week.
When you offered to pay some sort of compensation, what did they say, exactly? Did they say anything at all? You've indicated there was no conversation about that amount but did they agree that you'd be paying something?
Because if the facts as presented are the facts as they occurred, here's the deal:
The actual amount doesn't matter. The percentage of your former rent doesn't matter. The fact that it's comparatively a good deal doesn't matter. What matters is that they are arbitrarily deciding on an amount at the end of your stay - especially because they offered to put you up, and because you offered money and they didn't take you up on it when you offered.
No matter how reasonable the rate, it's incredibly shitty to wait to the end of your stay before telling you what the rate is. They're holding you to an agreement of whose terms you were not aware.
If I were in your situation, I would ask them, "Hey, uh, I offered to pay you before I showed up and you never said anything about it. If you wanted two hundred dollars a week out of me, it would have been cool to know that beforehand. It seems a little weird to decide on an amount after six weeks, without talking to me first. Is there something else going on here I don't know about?"
And to be completely honest, if that didn't snap them back to reality, and if it wouldn't represent a sundering of my social life, and if I didn't think it was likely I'd run into them once I was moved out, I'd be pretty comfortable telling them to go screw. If a landlord sprang this kind of shit on me, I'd call a lawyer; why would it be acceptable from someone who's supposed to be a friend?
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 12:43 PM on May 31, 2012 [63 favorites]
You told your friends you were moving to their state. They offered you a place to stay. You offered some sort of financial compensation for the use of their guest room.
No conversation was ever had about what that compensation might be.
A month and a half later - the day before you move out - they informed you that the cost they have decided on - after the fact and without consulting you - is two hundred dollars a week.
When you offered to pay some sort of compensation, what did they say, exactly? Did they say anything at all? You've indicated there was no conversation about that amount but did they agree that you'd be paying something?
Because if the facts as presented are the facts as they occurred, here's the deal:
The actual amount doesn't matter. The percentage of your former rent doesn't matter. The fact that it's comparatively a good deal doesn't matter. What matters is that they are arbitrarily deciding on an amount at the end of your stay - especially because they offered to put you up, and because you offered money and they didn't take you up on it when you offered.
No matter how reasonable the rate, it's incredibly shitty to wait to the end of your stay before telling you what the rate is. They're holding you to an agreement of whose terms you were not aware.
If I were in your situation, I would ask them, "Hey, uh, I offered to pay you before I showed up and you never said anything about it. If you wanted two hundred dollars a week out of me, it would have been cool to know that beforehand. It seems a little weird to decide on an amount after six weeks, without talking to me first. Is there something else going on here I don't know about?"
And to be completely honest, if that didn't snap them back to reality, and if it wouldn't represent a sundering of my social life, and if I didn't think it was likely I'd run into them once I was moved out, I'd be pretty comfortable telling them to go screw. If a landlord sprang this kind of shit on me, I'd call a lawyer; why would it be acceptable from someone who's supposed to be a friend?
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 12:43 PM on May 31, 2012 [63 favorites]
What xedrik said. This is not the move a friend makes. I wouldn't even charge friends rent for staying at the cottage on my property that I do rent out if I offered it to them. I'd only charge if they'd called me and asked if they could stay there, and even then I'd give them a break.
posted by Capri at 12:45 PM on May 31, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Capri at 12:45 PM on May 31, 2012 [1 favorite]
The market rents in the area presumably include a profit for the landlord. So I don't think that's the proper metric to go by in determining what should be the appropriate amount in a presumably not-for-profit scenario.
posted by drlith at 12:47 PM on May 31, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by drlith at 12:47 PM on May 31, 2012 [7 favorites]
I too would never dream of charging a friend rent in this situation. But different people have different opinions, and I think you have to own the fault for not having made your expectations clear beforehand. In retrospect it sounds like they clearly were expecting compensation, but perhaps weren't quite sure how to ask so they were awkward about it-- and you assumed from the tone that it was a joke.
I'd focus on the friendship, and gracefully let it go (unless of course you really can't afford it, in that case I'd be frank about my needs, neutrally explain that I was expecting to pay a lower rate and maybe offer to do a few chores in exchange). They still provided you an advantageous situation by providing an easy, low-hassle short-term place to crash while you look for something permanent, and aren't charging more than you'd have paid anywhere else for similar accommodations. Be friendly, be gracious, but likewise don't worry about paying for gas or dinner or socializing when you don't feel like it -- being a paying roommate has some advantages :-)
posted by susanvance at 12:48 PM on May 31, 2012
I'd focus on the friendship, and gracefully let it go (unless of course you really can't afford it, in that case I'd be frank about my needs, neutrally explain that I was expecting to pay a lower rate and maybe offer to do a few chores in exchange). They still provided you an advantageous situation by providing an easy, low-hassle short-term place to crash while you look for something permanent, and aren't charging more than you'd have paid anywhere else for similar accommodations. Be friendly, be gracious, but likewise don't worry about paying for gas or dinner or socializing when you don't feel like it -- being a paying roommate has some advantages :-)
posted by susanvance at 12:48 PM on May 31, 2012
I'm with you. I think saying it took you b surprise and asking how they came to that amount (maybe something you didn't think of?) would be gentle enough. And then telling them you had budgeted differently, of course.
Saying its average rent for the area kind of misses the point, because if you had wanted to pay average rent, I'm sure you could have found some kind of non-friend boarding situation (sublets, &c.). Just really odd that they would ask for so much.
posted by stoneandstar at 12:52 PM on May 31, 2012 [1 favorite]
Saying its average rent for the area kind of misses the point, because if you had wanted to pay average rent, I'm sure you could have found some kind of non-friend boarding situation (sublets, &c.). Just really odd that they would ask for so much.
posted by stoneandstar at 12:52 PM on May 31, 2012 [1 favorite]
Also, yeah, the point being that you have probably cost them closer to $500 than $1200. They are trying to make a profit, which is just tacky. Different if they ha offered to "rent" to you upfront and given you a rate. I also agree that you might want to ask if something's going on, because I think you deserve to be a little hurt and confused and let them know that it's about more than just money.
posted by stoneandstar at 12:55 PM on May 31, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by stoneandstar at 12:55 PM on May 31, 2012 [1 favorite]
Go to them with $600 cash in hand. Gently tell them you feel that since they didn't discuss the amount with you, you feel they're charging too much. Remind them of the things you paid for up front during your stay. Your $600 may swing the deal and make them happy enough. If they're adamant about wanting the $200/week, tell them you have $600 for them immediately, and you will get them the money "shortly"--do not discuss the meaning of "shortly". Eventually pay it all off, and consider the friendship dissolved.
posted by BlueHorse at 12:57 PM on May 31, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by BlueHorse at 12:57 PM on May 31, 2012 [5 favorites]
If it won't hurt you (and with their definition of friendship, I don't think it will), simply refuse to pay, tell them it's unreasonable to pull such a number out of their ass the day before you're moving, and get them out of your life. They can't complain or take this to a small claims court, because the whole point is that you never agreed on something, and you never signed anything.
These people aren't your friends. By offering you a place to stay, they were trying to make money out of you and were not honest about it.
posted by Tarumba at 12:58 PM on May 31, 2012 [1 favorite]
These people aren't your friends. By offering you a place to stay, they were trying to make money out of you and were not honest about it.
posted by Tarumba at 12:58 PM on May 31, 2012 [1 favorite]
Yes, you need to have a conversation with them. But before you do that, forget about who was at fault and what you expected, and just think about what possible outcomes would satisfy you. You talk, you're happy to hear them acknowledge how you feel about the situation, you pay the $1200? You would prefer not to cause trouble so you keep quiet and fork over the $1200? You negotiate with them and pay no more than $500? Whatever it is, think about it in advance. Then when you do have the conversation, focus on what's important to you.
These are long-term friends. Give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they have good intentions here. Maybe they're thinking, "Gee, when we offered him a place to stay, we thought it would be a few days! We thought he was a friend, but he's trying to take advantage of us." Or maybe, "We're giving him a good deal by offering him a transitional place to live, with lots of perks, but at regular market rent." Don't try to guess what their motives really are, you have no idea. Try to move past that and come to a resolution that works for you financially and will help you maintain the friendship without resentment.
posted by chickenmagazine at 12:58 PM on May 31, 2012 [5 favorites]
These are long-term friends. Give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they have good intentions here. Maybe they're thinking, "Gee, when we offered him a place to stay, we thought it would be a few days! We thought he was a friend, but he's trying to take advantage of us." Or maybe, "We're giving him a good deal by offering him a transitional place to live, with lots of perks, but at regular market rent." Don't try to guess what their motives really are, you have no idea. Try to move past that and come to a resolution that works for you financially and will help you maintain the friendship without resentment.
posted by chickenmagazine at 12:58 PM on May 31, 2012 [5 favorites]
These people aren't your friends. By offering you a place to stay, they were trying to make money out of you and were not honest about it.
There's the possibility that one of the friends was kind of laid back about it and didn't much care, but that the spouse was quite insistent that they charge the OP the market rate. That would explain a lot of the vagaries and general avoidance involved.
posted by deanc at 1:05 PM on May 31, 2012 [13 favorites]
There's the possibility that one of the friends was kind of laid back about it and didn't much care, but that the spouse was quite insistent that they charge the OP the market rate. That would explain a lot of the vagaries and general avoidance involved.
posted by deanc at 1:05 PM on May 31, 2012 [13 favorites]
This is really bizarre. Is it possible that you pissed off one member of the couple, and they agreed on this amount to mollify the offended person? I would want to take one of them aside and ask if I had done something to offend them -- maybe they'll explain, or get the hint that you're shocked at the $ value and discuss it amongst themselves.
Otherwise, I think you'll feel best about this in the future if you pay them and move on. Honestly, I would mentally downgrade them from "friends" to "acquaintances," and focus on expanding your social group in this new city.
posted by inkfish at 1:11 PM on May 31, 2012
Otherwise, I think you'll feel best about this in the future if you pay them and move on. Honestly, I would mentally downgrade them from "friends" to "acquaintances," and focus on expanding your social group in this new city.
posted by inkfish at 1:11 PM on May 31, 2012
This sounds like bad communication-- and maybe lack of foresight-- all the way around. Maybe they didn't know how long you would be staying, it turned out to be much longer and/or more disruptive than they assumed and they decided that at a certain point it had gone from a houseguest situation to having a lodger? If that's what happened, the really fair thing in my opinion would have been for them to say at that point, "We've been happy to put you up so far but if you stay any longer you'll have to start chipping in for rent." But it takes a lot of balls to say something like that. In sum, I think what they did is weird but it was a weird situation. And the whole "joking" thing (on both sides?) didn't help at all.
Honestly, in your shoes I'd just pay if I had the money, ask for a reduction if i didn't, and be happy if we remained friends. What is it they say about houseguests and fish-- that they stink to high hell after three days? Having someone in your house for six weeks is a very big deal unless your house is enormous.
posted by BibiRose at 1:12 PM on May 31, 2012
Honestly, in your shoes I'd just pay if I had the money, ask for a reduction if i didn't, and be happy if we remained friends. What is it they say about houseguests and fish-- that they stink to high hell after three days? Having someone in your house for six weeks is a very big deal unless your house is enormous.
posted by BibiRose at 1:12 PM on May 31, 2012
Man, I'd be mortified in your shoes. Just mortified. And also...alienated. But I don't deal well with money issues between friends.
I see two options here. There's the one I would take -- namely, pay them the full amount and never speak to them again, because I would not consider them friends after having a $1200 bill sprung on me at the end of my stay -- or the perhaps more mature option, in which I'd say,
"I really appreciate your having put me up for so long, and I understand that you need some recompense for it. But I'll be honest, I wasn't expecting it to be quite so expensive. Had I known that you were planning to request market value for the room, I would have subletted, and spared myself some of the social expenses of staying with friends -- like the dinners I paid for, and the gas, and so on. If you feel really strongly about this, I can scrape together the $1200. But I'd budgeted $600. I wonder if you'd be okay with that."
posted by artemisia at 1:23 PM on May 31, 2012 [16 favorites]
I see two options here. There's the one I would take -- namely, pay them the full amount and never speak to them again, because I would not consider them friends after having a $1200 bill sprung on me at the end of my stay -- or the perhaps more mature option, in which I'd say,
"I really appreciate your having put me up for so long, and I understand that you need some recompense for it. But I'll be honest, I wasn't expecting it to be quite so expensive. Had I known that you were planning to request market value for the room, I would have subletted, and spared myself some of the social expenses of staying with friends -- like the dinners I paid for, and the gas, and so on. If you feel really strongly about this, I can scrape together the $1200. But I'd budgeted $600. I wonder if you'd be okay with that."
posted by artemisia at 1:23 PM on May 31, 2012 [16 favorites]
Ugh, something like this happened to me once and it felt really shitty. What I learned from it is to never make vague offers of money, and to never offer to pay for anything with the expectation that someone else will refuse my money. I bet you know that now too!
In my situation, I just kept quiet and paid. I really, really recommend against doing this. At the time, I felt a little bit like I was being extorted: "nice friendship you have here, it would be a shame if something were to happen to it..." I felt uncomfortable about haggling with friends over money, so I just let them take what they asked for. This is the problem - most people are really uncomfortable pushing back against this kind of request, so people who have no problem making it just get to railroad over everyone else. They may not even realize they're doing it. Your friends here may have no malicious intent, but it may be the case that nobody has ever told them that this sort of thing is out of line because everyone is too uncomfortable. I've stayed friends with the people in question, but the friendship has never really been the same, because I resent them a little. This is why I disagree with people who are saying that the way to feel the best about this is to just pay them. I actually think that will make you feel the worst.
Here's what I would do now, after what I've learned. Figure out what you're willing to pay, and what you think is fair. Lead by saying that you should have discussed this beforehand, but the price they quoted you is a lot more than you expected, and you wouldn't have accepted their offer if you had known that it would be so much. Tell them you'd like to pay the fair amount. If they want to negotiate, you can go as high as what you've decided you can stomach. But if they won't accept this, I think you need to accept that they are charging you a fee to remain friends with them, and I wouldn't want to be friends with someone like that. In that case, I'd just give them nothing - you didn't sign anything, after all. This is why I don't really understand the advice to pay them the full amount and then never speak to them again. If you're losing them as friends anyway, wouldn't you rather keep the $1,200?
posted by Ragged Richard at 1:25 PM on May 31, 2012 [3 favorites]
In my situation, I just kept quiet and paid. I really, really recommend against doing this. At the time, I felt a little bit like I was being extorted: "nice friendship you have here, it would be a shame if something were to happen to it..." I felt uncomfortable about haggling with friends over money, so I just let them take what they asked for. This is the problem - most people are really uncomfortable pushing back against this kind of request, so people who have no problem making it just get to railroad over everyone else. They may not even realize they're doing it. Your friends here may have no malicious intent, but it may be the case that nobody has ever told them that this sort of thing is out of line because everyone is too uncomfortable. I've stayed friends with the people in question, but the friendship has never really been the same, because I resent them a little. This is why I disagree with people who are saying that the way to feel the best about this is to just pay them. I actually think that will make you feel the worst.
Here's what I would do now, after what I've learned. Figure out what you're willing to pay, and what you think is fair. Lead by saying that you should have discussed this beforehand, but the price they quoted you is a lot more than you expected, and you wouldn't have accepted their offer if you had known that it would be so much. Tell them you'd like to pay the fair amount. If they want to negotiate, you can go as high as what you've decided you can stomach. But if they won't accept this, I think you need to accept that they are charging you a fee to remain friends with them, and I wouldn't want to be friends with someone like that. In that case, I'd just give them nothing - you didn't sign anything, after all. This is why I don't really understand the advice to pay them the full amount and then never speak to them again. If you're losing them as friends anyway, wouldn't you rather keep the $1,200?
posted by Ragged Richard at 1:25 PM on May 31, 2012 [3 favorites]
6 weeks to find a new place? I assume they had no idea it would take so long. At some point you became "The guest that wouldn't leave!" Pay the 1200 and apologize for taking so long to find a new place. Given that expectations were never fully discussed by either party on the issue of duration of stay, and payment, and in the instances when you paid for dinner, or brought home groceries neither of these issues ever came up, you should take it as a lesson learned and move on.
posted by Gungho at 1:26 PM on May 31, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by Gungho at 1:26 PM on May 31, 2012 [4 favorites]
How does your length of stay factor into this? Six weeks is a long time. Maybe they thought it was like a two week thing? It definitely goes beyond "let me crash for a few days while I sort out some housing", and even beyond "it's hard to find an apartment for the 11th of the month". Six weeks is a living situation, not a visit or a crashing kind of deal. If I told someone new to my city that they could bunk in with me till they found a place, and going on two months later they were still living in my apartment, I would charge them full market rate, too. Because at that point you don't have a houseguest, you have a roommate.
I agree with Sara C. on this. I had a visitor once (my former roommate's friend) and when the visit went from 2 weeks to 2 months, I was pissed and couldn't understand why I was paying almost a $1000 per month and they were just 'contributing what they felt like'. Housing is a big issue (and major expense) especially in big cities.
Until you found a place probably meant 2 weeks...and it became almost 2 months. You'll never know until you ask but I'm sure this is somewhat the case. You might as well discuss it thoroughly because your friendship has probably already been a bit dented on both sides. This way you can clear the air.
posted by bquarters at 1:29 PM on May 31, 2012 [3 favorites]
I agree with Sara C. on this. I had a visitor once (my former roommate's friend) and when the visit went from 2 weeks to 2 months, I was pissed and couldn't understand why I was paying almost a $1000 per month and they were just 'contributing what they felt like'. Housing is a big issue (and major expense) especially in big cities.
Until you found a place probably meant 2 weeks...and it became almost 2 months. You'll never know until you ask but I'm sure this is somewhat the case. You might as well discuss it thoroughly because your friendship has probably already been a bit dented on both sides. This way you can clear the air.
posted by bquarters at 1:29 PM on May 31, 2012 [3 favorites]
Six weeks is a long time for a houseguest, and while a landlord wouldn't get groceries and socialization, a landlord would not also have the person living in their home, in their space, and using the utilities and shared resources of the household. Because groceries aside (and I'm assuming you weren't buying all of the groceries) you are still looking at laundry, dishes, pantry item use, electric, water, etc. Likewise, a landlord would not be giving up their own free time/privacy to a tenant.
I think where they went astray is that they probably calculated the cost somewhere between how much rent you would have paid and how much it would have cost to be in an extended stay hotel (which, depending on your area would likely be much more than $200/wk). If they've ever done AirBnB or similar type experiences, this too might be where they are coming from. But they should not have come up with a number without opening the door for negotiation, and you should not have stayed with friends for that long without having an amount written down before you arrived.
I would say your best bet is to say something along the lines of this, "I was planning on giving you somewhere around $500 (or whatever number) in total, I didn't realize you were naming your own price. I should have asked, and I'm sorry for the confusion. How about we split the difference and I'll pay you $900 and we'll call it even?"
posted by SassHat at 1:37 PM on May 31, 2012 [11 favorites]
I think where they went astray is that they probably calculated the cost somewhere between how much rent you would have paid and how much it would have cost to be in an extended stay hotel (which, depending on your area would likely be much more than $200/wk). If they've ever done AirBnB or similar type experiences, this too might be where they are coming from. But they should not have come up with a number without opening the door for negotiation, and you should not have stayed with friends for that long without having an amount written down before you arrived.
I would say your best bet is to say something along the lines of this, "I was planning on giving you somewhere around $500 (or whatever number) in total, I didn't realize you were naming your own price. I should have asked, and I'm sorry for the confusion. How about we split the difference and I'll pay you $900 and we'll call it even?"
posted by SassHat at 1:37 PM on May 31, 2012 [11 favorites]
First I think it's kind of weird not to have worked this out ahead of time and if that didn't happen I would have expected to be staying for free. It's possible your friends were expecting you to stay for a much shorter time period which is why they think you should compensate them after the fact. It would have been better if they had addressed this the second they felt you were a roommate rather than a guest but I'd bet they were thinking "Anonymous is going to get their own place any day now" for the last four weeks. See for example any of these many askmes from the other side.
Is the local market rate you are comparing to for short term room and board? Because that is going to be much more expensive than a yearly rate of room alone. Plus the access to transportation. And if not the rate you were quoted would seem reasonable. For example when I rent my suite for less than a 1 year lease (typically 2-3 months) I charge a 25% premium over the 1 year rate.
posted by Mitheral at 1:46 PM on May 31, 2012
Is the local market rate you are comparing to for short term room and board? Because that is going to be much more expensive than a yearly rate of room alone. Plus the access to transportation. And if not the rate you were quoted would seem reasonable. For example when I rent my suite for less than a 1 year lease (typically 2-3 months) I charge a 25% premium over the 1 year rate.
posted by Mitheral at 1:46 PM on May 31, 2012
Mod note: From the OP:
Thank you all for your responses and it definitely helped me put things into perspective. I should have sucked it up and talked about it prior to staying, so it's a miscommunication issue that I had a hand in creating. And, to clarify, while we were clear and did agree in advance that I could stay a max of 2 months, as we all knew how long it could take to find a place.posted by jessamyn (staff) at 2:04 PM on May 31, 2012
To @chickenmagazine's point, these are long-term friends. I'm going to accept my share of responsibility in bad communication and give them the benefit of the doubt that they're not trying to profit here because I want to retain the friendship.
I think what @SassHat stated is the likely scenario: "I think where they went astray is that they probably calculated the cost somewhere between how much rent you would have paid and how much it would have cost to be in an extended stay hotel."
I've already paid last night, so that part is over. The lesson here for me is to forge through awkward conversations next time to avoid potential butt-hurt.
Thank you, everyone. This was extremely helpful.
I'm exceedingly lenient and charitable, but I'd assume the couple didn't give much thought to how the price would come across. Like the night before they mentioned it one said to the other "Anon is moving out!" "oh yeah, we should ask for that rent he mentioned. How much?" "dunno, what's the weekly rate in Craigslist around here?"
And now you say (in an alternate universe where you hadn't paid already)"woah, that's crazy. I know we didn't discuss it beforehand, but I was expecting more like $100 per week"
Then you each talk about your thoughts on pricing and negotiate something that leaves you with no resentment or with no more friendship.
posted by itesser at 3:23 PM on May 31, 2012 [1 favorite]
And now you say (in an alternate universe where you hadn't paid already)"woah, that's crazy. I know we didn't discuss it beforehand, but I was expecting more like $100 per week"
Then you each talk about your thoughts on pricing and negotiate something that leaves you with no resentment or with no more friendship.
posted by itesser at 3:23 PM on May 31, 2012 [1 favorite]
Six weeks of being in someone's home, charged less than you previously paid for a month's rent, and you're complaining? I'm gonna go against the grain and say that the only faux pas here was not discussing it up front, but the rate seems reasonable.
posted by Sternmeyer at 5:07 PM on May 31, 2012
posted by Sternmeyer at 5:07 PM on May 31, 2012
OP, while accepting your share of responsibility, I do hope that you spoke with your friends about their share in the lack of communication. And be wary of mixing financial matters with your friendship with them in the future - regardless of their intention, your friendship may not survive a round two.
posted by sm1tten at 5:11 PM on May 31, 2012
posted by sm1tten at 5:11 PM on May 31, 2012
Allow me to edit some of your phrasings so they reflect reality, based on your own presentation of the situation:
See?
It's fine if you consider the amount to be a lot of money. It's fine if you don't feel you can afford it. But you decided to get yourself into this situation. If you're short on cash, you have to deal with that by making sure you know what things cost in advance.
$200 a week is hardly an "absurd" amount of rent — not even for an average cost of living city. If it was in a big city, that might have been a great deal.
This isn't affected by the fact that you "chipped in" for some things and also spent money on stuff for yourself. If you "chipped in," that means they also paid — so it evens out. And of course, everyone spends money on things for themselves. There's no reason that has to be factor into calculating the rent.
Your friends could have decided to let you stay there for 6 weeks for free. But they didn't, and they weren't obligated to. Friends often decide to be roommates with each person paying rent. So the idea that this just isn't how friends are supposed to treat each other is unfounded. In fact, they did you a huge favor by agreeing to let you stay there exactly when you needed to.
Some of the answers in this thread are way off-base. Sternmeyer and Sara C. are right.
posted by John Cohen at 5:49 PM on May 31, 2012 [5 favorites]
I moved from one state to another and my friends, whom I'm staying with for a month and a half, are charging me "rent" and the amount isIn other words, they told you in advance that you would owe rent if you were going to room with them. You roomed with them for over a month. You now owe them rent.absurd. . . average for this location.
Theyjokinglysaid they were going to charge me rent.
See?
It's fine if you consider the amount to be a lot of money. It's fine if you don't feel you can afford it. But you decided to get yourself into this situation. If you're short on cash, you have to deal with that by making sure you know what things cost in advance.
$200 a week is hardly an "absurd" amount of rent — not even for an average cost of living city. If it was in a big city, that might have been a great deal.
This isn't affected by the fact that you "chipped in" for some things and also spent money on stuff for yourself. If you "chipped in," that means they also paid — so it evens out. And of course, everyone spends money on things for themselves. There's no reason that has to be factor into calculating the rent.
Your friends could have decided to let you stay there for 6 weeks for free. But they didn't, and they weren't obligated to. Friends often decide to be roommates with each person paying rent. So the idea that this just isn't how friends are supposed to treat each other is unfounded. In fact, they did you a huge favor by agreeing to let you stay there exactly when you needed to.
Some of the answers in this thread are way off-base. Sternmeyer and Sara C. are right.
posted by John Cohen at 5:49 PM on May 31, 2012 [5 favorites]
The problem is not really that $200 per week is an absurd amount of rent. The OP did not expect this to be a business transaction, but a social one. Humans do tend to have very different rules about business and social interactions, and we get uncomfortable when we're asked to behave in a businesslike way in a social setting or in a social way in a business setting -- we really don't like these boundaries blurring. See for example the Israeli daycare study. If I were the OP, I would pay as he has done, but reevaluate the relationship and how close I would want to be to these people. In my world, friends don't ask for money if you stay with them, beyond some token that you force on them.
posted by peacheater at 6:04 PM on May 31, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by peacheater at 6:04 PM on May 31, 2012 [6 favorites]
Yeah, it could be a cultural thing. i would be extremely offended that they are charging me without warning, and that they preferred to surprise me with the charge rather than coming to me on the second week to tell me they would like for me to hurry with finding a place. ask vs guess i suppose.
posted by Tarumba at 6:14 PM on May 31, 2012
posted by Tarumba at 6:14 PM on May 31, 2012
Of course both sides blew it by not being up front. But I would be feeling pretty hosed by getting a "bill" that wasn't discussed ahead of time. You lived for six weeks giving generously to the household, behaving as a "guest" and not a roommate. Had you been a "roommate" all along, you would have had the opportunity to budget a consistent amount per week. You would not have felt the obligation to purchase household items, you would rightly have been providing your own groceries and personal use items and not shared.
Your friends got rent as well as the extra cash and goods you were kicking in.
posted by Jazz Hands at 6:33 PM on May 31, 2012 [1 favorite]
Your friends got rent as well as the extra cash and goods you were kicking in.
posted by Jazz Hands at 6:33 PM on May 31, 2012 [1 favorite]
Mod note: Folks please answer the OPs question and don't turn this into a larger debate about the principle of the thing. Thanks.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 6:34 PM on May 31, 2012
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 6:34 PM on May 31, 2012
i would be extremely offended that they are charging me without warning
But that's not what happened. We can disagree on the principle, but let's get the facts straight. The friends told the OP in advance that they'd charge him/her rent. The OP ended up being a roommate for multiple months. I understand people feeling sympathetic to the OP because the post is framed as if s/he was betrayed and the friendship has been ruptured, but friends decide to be roommates all the time. It is odd that the friends didn't state an amount in advance — but then, it is also odd that the OP didn't ask about the amount in advance if this was so important to him/her. Without a specific agreement, it makes sense for the roommates to charge an "average" amount — which, according to the OP, is exactly what happened.
posted by John Cohen at 6:52 PM on May 31, 2012 [1 favorite]
But that's not what happened. We can disagree on the principle, but let's get the facts straight. The friends told the OP in advance that they'd charge him/her rent. The OP ended up being a roommate for multiple months. I understand people feeling sympathetic to the OP because the post is framed as if s/he was betrayed and the friendship has been ruptured, but friends decide to be roommates all the time. It is odd that the friends didn't state an amount in advance — but then, it is also odd that the OP didn't ask about the amount in advance if this was so important to him/her. Without a specific agreement, it makes sense for the roommates to charge an "average" amount — which, according to the OP, is exactly what happened.
posted by John Cohen at 6:52 PM on May 31, 2012 [1 favorite]
You both had a responsibility up front but everyone avoided the uncomfortable conversation. I think you were right to pay them what they asked for as it appears that saving the long-term friendship is important to you. You're now on notice about this aspect of your friends and of the power-differential in the relationship. Remaining friends often involves this kind of awareness. Sounds like a hard lesson for all but good luck in your new city. You'll make other friends, some better and some worse!
posted by lois1950 at 7:18 PM on May 31, 2012
posted by lois1950 at 7:18 PM on May 31, 2012
There are a ton of people who stay with their friends for extended periods of time without paying rent, but there is NO ONE who rents an apartment under terms where the landlord tells them what the rent is going to be after they've stayed there for six weeks.
That's why in the absence of an agreement, the default assumption should be something closer to being a guest than a tenant at the going rate. You could have found something else instead if you knew they were going to charge you market rate, but it's doubtful they would have sought out another renter if you didn't take them up on their offer.
If it were me in this situation (and it wouldn't be), I'd figure that someone was going to feel screwed out of $1200 and have to bite the bullet over that in order to preserve the friendship.
I'd let that someone be the other people.
posted by alphanerd at 9:05 PM on May 31, 2012 [6 favorites]
That's why in the absence of an agreement, the default assumption should be something closer to being a guest than a tenant at the going rate. You could have found something else instead if you knew they were going to charge you market rate, but it's doubtful they would have sought out another renter if you didn't take them up on their offer.
If it were me in this situation (and it wouldn't be), I'd figure that someone was going to feel screwed out of $1200 and have to bite the bullet over that in order to preserve the friendship.
I'd let that someone be the other people.
posted by alphanerd at 9:05 PM on May 31, 2012 [6 favorites]
I wouldn't stay good friends with them, because to spring a "bill" like this on you at the last minute without prior discussion is gauche. To say the least.
It's their home, they had an obligation to state their expectations, if any, clearly and up front. They did not do this.
These are not organized or responsible people. Nor are they cognizant of simple manners.
Put them on the outer rim of your "friend circle." Not as punishment, but because you can't feel secure with them in their actions moving forward.
Who knows what they'll come up with next time finances are involved?
It seems they've changed since you first knew them. Sucks for them and their karma.
You did the decent (yet not necessary) thing!
posted by jbenben at 9:54 PM on May 31, 2012 [2 favorites]
It's their home, they had an obligation to state their expectations, if any, clearly and up front. They did not do this.
These are not organized or responsible people. Nor are they cognizant of simple manners.
Put them on the outer rim of your "friend circle." Not as punishment, but because you can't feel secure with them in their actions moving forward.
Who knows what they'll come up with next time finances are involved?
It seems they've changed since you first knew them. Sucks for them and their karma.
You did the decent (yet not necessary) thing!
posted by jbenben at 9:54 PM on May 31, 2012 [2 favorites]
Any chance the amount is to make sure "six weeks" stays "six weeks"? In your follow up you sort of indicate you think it could have gone on longer if you had trouble finding a place. A higher-than expected fee might be a way of getting you out of there on time. (Six weeks is a really long time to have a guest. If this were two weeks, I would say they shouldn't be charging you at all. But at six, with the hint of maybe staying longer, makes you a bona fide roommmate.)
posted by spaltavian at 5:55 AM on June 1, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by spaltavian at 5:55 AM on June 1, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'm with you on this and I'm surprised at how many people aren't. If a friend of mine had invited, the operative word is "invited," me to stay with them while I searched for a house, I would assume they meant it without any strings attached. Maybe my relationship with my friends is just different. I'm sure they would expect me to give them a nominal amount, like a few hundred bucks, or a nice gift, like a really nice bottle of wine or gift certificate to a local restaurant. That being said, six weeks is a long time, so was the length of time discussed beforehand?
If they were really serious about charging you rent, they should have been pretty clear about it from the beginning. People generally like to know that they are going to be billed for such a large amount in advance.
I think you should sit down with them and just explain it all from your point of view. You do have to be prepared, however for the possibility that they won't see it the same way. Maybe they have a lot of money and they simply view the amount differently?
posted by theuninvitedguest at 9:51 AM on June 1, 2012
If they were really serious about charging you rent, they should have been pretty clear about it from the beginning. People generally like to know that they are going to be billed for such a large amount in advance.
I think you should sit down with them and just explain it all from your point of view. You do have to be prepared, however for the possibility that they won't see it the same way. Maybe they have a lot of money and they simply view the amount differently?
posted by theuninvitedguest at 9:51 AM on June 1, 2012
Any chance the amount is to make sure "six weeks" stays "six weeks"?Seconded.
Unless you are really, really good friends with your friend's significant other... my impression is that the six weeks went by with increasing stress for the two of them. Your friend being repeatedly asked by his spouse
"So, that's another week with seemingly no progress... Really, how much longer is he going to be here? I know he's your friend and he is a nice guy... but, seriously, when can we finally get our place back to ourselves?"$200 a week sounds like an "incentive-izing" amount. Like, a 'this will spur progress on the finding his own place' amount.
The old quote is "Fish and visitors smell in three days."—imagine what (even the friendliest) fish would smell like after six weeks!
posted by blueberry at 12:17 AM on June 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
It seems you wandered unwittingly into Doing Business With Friends territory.
They may have had the right to charge you the market rate, but in that case they should have set up a subletting agreement with terms in writing up front. I am sure that if they had done that, you would not be asking this question. You might not have chosen to enter into that agreement with them, but there would be no question as to whether it was okay that they offered it.
Instead, they invited you and you assumed it would be as a guest, whereby you would do all guestly duties like contributing various things and expenses to the household, socializing with them, and paying them, oh, some money on departure. At the end of your stay, during which they had benefitted from the contributions you had made as a guest that you would not have made as a subletter, they asked you to pay them the going rate.
That is not fair, because they get all the benefits of having you as a guest, and all the benefits of renting the room to you, and all the obligations fall on you. It's too bad if they found it a strain to have you there for six weeks. They invited you, and they agreed up front that it would be for up to two months. If that was harder on them than they expected, they should learn not to invite long-term guests again rather than taking the costs out on you.
I agree with what was said about crossing the streams between business and friendship. When exploiters do this, they claim all the privileges of friendship and all the obligations of business, and the unwitting mark ends up out of pocket and feeling used.
posted by tel3path at 5:14 AM on June 8, 2012
They may have had the right to charge you the market rate, but in that case they should have set up a subletting agreement with terms in writing up front. I am sure that if they had done that, you would not be asking this question. You might not have chosen to enter into that agreement with them, but there would be no question as to whether it was okay that they offered it.
Instead, they invited you and you assumed it would be as a guest, whereby you would do all guestly duties like contributing various things and expenses to the household, socializing with them, and paying them, oh, some money on departure. At the end of your stay, during which they had benefitted from the contributions you had made as a guest that you would not have made as a subletter, they asked you to pay them the going rate.
That is not fair, because they get all the benefits of having you as a guest, and all the benefits of renting the room to you, and all the obligations fall on you. It's too bad if they found it a strain to have you there for six weeks. They invited you, and they agreed up front that it would be for up to two months. If that was harder on them than they expected, they should learn not to invite long-term guests again rather than taking the costs out on you.
I agree with what was said about crossing the streams between business and friendship. When exploiters do this, they claim all the privileges of friendship and all the obligations of business, and the unwitting mark ends up out of pocket and feeling used.
posted by tel3path at 5:14 AM on June 8, 2012
« Older How and when to change doctors when a medical... | How to reinvent oneself professionaly? Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by roger ackroyd at 12:11 PM on May 31, 2012 [19 favorites]