I don't want a 3rd roommate!

November 1, 2007 7:58 PM

My roommate's boyfriend spends the night... every single night.

My roommate moved in late August. She asked me if it was cool if her boyfriend stayed with us for about a month while he looked for an apartment, and I said sure, if he helps with utilities. So he moves in too, for about six weeks, and everything is fine for the most part. We all get along great, no major problems. Then he got his own place and moved his stuff out and everything seemed hunky dory.

But the thing is, he still spends every night here.

I asked my roommate if she could please have him over just a bit less often, and she was great and understanding about it. But the only thing that has changed is that she now warns me ahead of time that he will be coming over.

I like my roommate. I like my roommate's boyfriend. But I don't want to live with him. He does his laundry here because he doesn't have a machine at his place. He takes showers here almost every morning. When I casually mentioned utilities to my roommate again, she basically said it was silly and that it couldn't amount to more than a couple of dollars per month. (Honestly I have no idea if that's true, and it's not really the expense that bothers me, anyway.)

I just kind of feel... impeded upon, I guess? I don't really know what to do at this point, and I was hoping somebody could offer a solution. I don't want to have stern words with anybody, because these people have become my friends. I don't want to involve the landlord. I just don't want to pay rent for half an apartment if I'm really ending up with a third (ok, perhaps a bit more than that, but you get the idea).

Any clever suggestions for working this out amicably? I really don't want to piss anybody off.

Or is this sort of thing totally standard and I should just deal with it?

posted by timory to human relations (49 comments total)

Search the archives of AskMe. This issue has been dealt with a million times here.
posted by jayder at 8:08 PM on November 1, 2007

You're going to need to talk with your roommate. There is no way to deal with this other than by telling her how you feel. She may be upset, but you just need to tell her that you didn't sign on to live in a small space with two other people and that you'd appreciate it if they limited sleepovers to X nights a week (pick a number you'll really be comfortable with, because I'm sure she'll push any limit you set) and spent some nights at his place. It'll be an uncomfortable conversation, but it's the only way to deal with the situation.
posted by decathecting at 8:08 PM on November 1, 2007

It's generally against the rules of etiquette, unless this is something you agreed on beforehand, for a roommate to have their partner over every night. It's not about bills, it's about fairness and the fact that you want 50% of an apartment not whatever you get. I'd try being reasonable but very clear

"Hey Roomie, remember how we had the conversation about Boyfriend being over less often? Well I'm not seeing anything change. I'd really like to have the chance to maybe have the house to myself once in a while and I think we need to even things out some. I'm sorry if I was unclear when you moved in in August, but I really only wanted one roommate, not two and now I have two. I like the two of you a lot, you're both fun to be around but I'm not looking to live with a couple and I don't think it's fair either time- or moenywise to have him always over here. Let me know what you'd like to do about this."

This doesn't really touch on the money issue as much as the fairness issue. If you make it about money, as you've seen, you'll get responses saying you're being penny-pinching etc. I'm not clear on whether this is a place you've lived in and she just moved in (like you had other roommates) or if the two of you basically moved in to a place together. Did you know her beforehand? In any case, no, an every-night boyfriend sleepover isn't really okay except with express permission. I'd try to spell it out for her a little more if needed -- four nights per week max, laundry once a month (or no laundry) -- and if that's not okay with her, she's welcome to go move in with him, find a place that suits her better, etc.

You may want to check the terms of your lease as well because it may be easier to make the point if there's something in the lease about it, otherwise it might be a good idea just in case she gets huffy and decides to leave. I can't really imagine a roomate situation where a roommate came to me with a concern [even if it was weird] and I'd blow it off and call it silly; that's not that cool.
posted by jessamyn at 8:11 PM on November 1, 2007 [2 favorites]

It is fairly standard and you should just deal with it.



No. Not really.

If he stays over maybe 2 or 3 times a week. I'll say just accept that as your roommate's bad habit. (If he comes and goes during the night and takes off early morning... that's probably o.k.)

If it is consistantly more than that, tell you roommate that you feel uncomfortable having a guy around all the time.
Try not to mention utility bills... It really doesn't cost much and it isn't your point anyways..

Just mention your point. "I am uncomfortable having a guy around all the time when I am around. Could you have your boyfriend spend less time in OUR home."

Be very nice.... If you like your roommate so far and didn't have much problem, she should be understandable and maybe spend the time at his place. If she either not change her behavior or become nasty toward you, it is tiime for you to find another place or roommate. You can still be nice about the whole thing.. maybe at that point, your roommate may take this seriously.

Personally, I wouldn't have too much problem with it.... As long as my roomie pays what she pays and the boyfriend doesn't mess up the place.
posted by curiousleo at 8:11 PM on November 1, 2007

You sort of contradict yourself in your question, which I don't bring up as a criticism as much as way to try to narrow down what's really bothering you here and what's a red herring. You express concern about the roommate's boyfriend using the utilities and not paying for them, then follow up by saying it's not out of control utility bills that are bothering you.

Answer this question: If the roommate's boyfriend agreed to pay some percentage of the utilities would you be ok with him staying over every night? If the answer is no, I wouldn't even bother bringing that up as a reason you don't want him over so often, as you will have no argument left should they agree to him paying some part of the utility bill.

I think it is perfectly reasonable to not want guests over every night in your apartment and this is not something you should feel bad about or need to apologize for. Unless there is some information you haven't given us, I fail to see why she can't simply stay at his place some of the time if they really want to be together every night? I don't know that there is some magical solution that will guarantee not to cause any hurt feelings or arguments should you bring this up, but what you are asking it totally within reason and does not make you a bad roommate.
posted by The Gooch at 8:13 PM on November 1, 2007

a) tell your roommate that you're uncomfortable with her boyfriend staying over so much, and you want to limit it to a X times per week. (she might offer for him to pay extra to cover the cost of him being there so much, so think about that ahead of time and figure out if that's what you want - for him to be there all the time, but you're getting cash for the inconvenience.)

or

b) make an anonymous call to the landlord, and say that the man living in [your apartment number] makes too much noise or whatever. I dunno. Improvise.

Take your pick. Although, take heed. #2 is asking for a Karma raping later on.
posted by damnjezebel at 8:13 PM on November 1, 2007

As someone whose boyfriend spent a lot of time at my place (not every night, more like every other night), and whose roommate was uncommunicative (leaving notes instead of talking), I beg you to actually talk to your roommate. Also, if there is an understandable reason why it is less convenient for her to spend time at his place, and it is just his physical presence in common areas that is bothering you, please try to think of ways that him being around can bother you less, i.e. he stays in her room most of the time, or you get some extra monetary compensation, or he leaves during the day and is really only around to sleep.

I guess I'm saying, be up front and try to be understanding. Also as others have said, if it comes time you decide to sever the roommate relationship, please be civil. Again, if he really just needs to sleep over some nights due to work schedules or whatever, but can be out of the house during the day, that might be a relatively easy way for you to be more comfortable and still accommodate your roommate's desire to use her bedroom as she likes.
posted by lorrer at 8:25 PM on November 1, 2007

damn, i'm sorry guys - i did search for this question before posting, and somehow didn't find anything. but then after i posted i found a thread that links to other threads and now i know i'm a dope...

but thanks for humoring me. in answer to various questions...

1) honestly if he paid part of the rent, i wouldn't care about him being here so much.

2) my roommate, now that she knows that i would like him to be here less, gives me explanations as to why he is here. so far i have gotten the following, among other things: "he doesn't have a bed frame yet and just has an air mattress to sleep on," then when that was taken care of, "he just found out he has mice and he's freaking out about it" (we both yelled at him for being such a pussy about that, but that's not enough to get him to go home), and "i have a crazy exam in the morning and he helps me relax."

3) i have lived in this apartment for a year. my old roommate had to move to go to grad school, and i found this one on craigslist.
posted by timory at 8:25 PM on November 1, 2007

lorrer: i did talk to her about it and was really friendly, like i mentioned. i'm not passive about these things. but he still spends every night here. also, he basically does just come over to sleep every night - nobody is really here during the day. but there are a lot of reasons why that is still really annoying when it happens EVERY night. even 4 out of 7 nights would be okay with me.
posted by timory at 8:28 PM on November 1, 2007

honestly if he paid part of the rent, i wouldn't care about him being here so much.

Then that's all you need to say.

"If he's going to be here every night, basically living here, he needs to pay rent and be on this lease. I'm not paying for him to live here, and I don't want the landlord kicking us out. You moved into my apartment, he didn't."

Just perhaps not as assholey as how I just said it. :)
posted by Mikey-San at 8:31 PM on November 1, 2007 [1 favorite]

I’ve kept these Timeless Roommate Ground Rules in the back of my mind since I first read them.
posted by tepidmonkey at 8:32 PM on November 1, 2007 [3 favorites]

i'm not 100% sure, but i'm fairly certain that my roommate would think him paying part of the rent would be absolutely absurd. i could try to bring it up, though.
posted by timory at 8:32 PM on November 1, 2007

He lives in your apartment. He has another apartment that he uses to store his stuff and presumably hang out now and then, but if he sleeps at your place every night, then he lives there, and should be paying rent.

Why don't you suggest that your roommate goes and stays with him a few nights a week?
posted by robcorr at 8:45 PM on November 1, 2007

my roommate would think him paying part of the rent would be absolutely absurd.

Bullshit. You're being ridiculously timid here. She's the one being absurd. It couldn't be more obvious that he's living there, and either needs to pay rent - utilities, too - or get the fuck out for 4 nights a week, at the least. You really have to stand up for yourself and demand basic human respect here; you're being taken advantage of, and I'll bet if you're honest with yourself you'd rather have him gone than paying anything, too.

If you're willing to settle for some money, that's your call, but if she says it's absurd for him to pay for the space, water, electricity and whatever else he's using, she's fucking insane. End of story: involve the landlord.

[glad you liked the rules, tepidmonkey. they work best when agreed upon in advance, but they can be invoked anytime.]
posted by mediareport at 8:49 PM on November 1, 2007

to be fair, the space/money/electricity/water/whatever is probably negligible. i've lived here a bit over a year, and i haven't noticed anything unusual about the utility bills since his presence. the total has gone up maybe ten bucks, and i feel like a fool asking him to pay 30 cents per day for sleeping here every night. as far as rent goes, i doubt it would be okay to ask that, either. it's not like he is taking up the common areas or using any of my stuff.
posted by timory at 9:00 PM on November 1, 2007

Ask if you can have his apartment, since he isn't using it. Win-win-win.
posted by SassHat at 9:04 PM on November 1, 2007 [1 favorite]

The words "he can't" have to be in the sentence you use to discuss this matter with the roomate.
posted by Ironmouth at 9:09 PM on November 1, 2007

> my roommate would think him paying part of the rent would be absolutely absurd.

Well, your roommate needs a wakeup call.

Utilities is not a small cost -- not for hot water. Showers use a lot of water and heating water is a major part of a heating bill. That said, in an apartment you may or may not have a water heating bill.

Yeah, and I bet he cleans the bathroom every third week, too, right? He's basically having all the benefits of living there and none of the costs, be they money, work or just general responsibility. I can see why you'd be severely cheesed off. At least they're not doing loud S&M in the other room (so your situation isn't as bad as mine was) but you do have to do something about this, either get him out half the time or get him to make his contribution. Take less or give more. Your roommate should be able to understand that.
posted by Listener at 9:12 PM on November 1, 2007

Well, now you're sending mixed messages. You expressed concern about the utilities in your post, and mentioned his presence bothers you, but just posted pretty much the opposite above. Does his presence bother you or not? Do you think he should pay for the utilities he's using or not?

You say you want to avoid "stern words," but there's no way to bring this up except politely-but-firmly. If that counts as "too stern" to you, then reconcile yourself to being taken advantage of and let it go. But there's a middle ground between screaming your frustration at them and doing nothing. The bottom line is you have to politely explain that you don't want a third roommate, and that means the majority of the time you should not be coming home to one - thus, the three nights a week maximum. It makes sense.

"Hey, about the roommate situation. I've been pretty cool about letting him stay here, right? I like you, and like your boyfriend, but I really didn't sign up for two roommates, and would kinda appreciate it if he was gone occasionally, so I could enjoy the place without him every once in a while. Can you start spending a few nights a week at his place? And let's try a few weeks with three nights of him staying over per week as a limit, just to see what that feels like. Thanks for understanding."

Then walk away, smiling, and continue to be polite. Their reaction, whether it's an immature mess of lies and holes punched in the wall like in the other linked thread or whatever, is not your responsibility. Your first responsibility is to your own peace of mind in your own home.

That's your solution.
posted by mediareport at 9:16 PM on November 1, 2007

I would just literally say like three sentences to her. You know I've mentioned to you before that I don't mind your boyfriend, but I don't want to live with him, and he is still here every night. So I've decided that when our lease is up I'm going to be moving out. I don't mean this as a threat, but I wanted to let you know that's what is going to be happening.

I mean you've talked to her, she's ignored you, you've asked for utilities money, she's blown you off. She is way out of line here and she knows it and she just doesn't care, there isn't anything you can do. She might shape up once she realizes you'll be leaving, but she also may not. I've essentially done this in a pretty similar situation (except I had to be kept up all night listening to them have sex) and I essentially did just this and it did improve.
posted by whoaali at 9:16 PM on November 1, 2007

p.s. I'm not saying it's not difficult to say those sentences; it's always stressful to raise an issue like that. But I can only encourage you to understand that it's much less stressful for you in the long run to say those few sentences out loud to them than to keep on quietly feeling like a doormat.
posted by mediareport at 9:20 PM on November 1, 2007

I've decided that when our lease is up I'm going to be moving out asking you to move out.

Fixed that for you. :)
posted by mediareport at 9:24 PM on November 1, 2007 [1 favorite]

Take a look at your lease. Most contain a provision for how long someone can stay to visit without being on the lease. (Mine is up to 5 consecutive days or up to 10 days in any particular month.) Use this information to justify him being on the lease and paying some rent if he exceeds this amount of time.
posted by JakeLL at 10:00 PM on November 1, 2007

i was in the same situation with a roommate's girlfriend for a year or so, but she cleaned the bathroom every couple of weeks, so it was ok. If he was a decent guy, he would do something to show his appreciation, which would probably make you feel better about the situation. Lacking that, seems like you gotta say something.
posted by dripdripdrop at 10:25 PM on November 1, 2007

I had this roommate once upon a time. This is what worked:

"Hey, I need to talk to you tonight. Will you be alone? Great. So here's the thing, your boyfriend is here every night. No, wait, let me finish. I need you to hear me say that this isn't about me not liking him. I like him fine. But if I wanted to live with a boy, I would just go live with a boy! I decided to live in a two-bedroom apartment with another girl because I want to feel like I'm in a relaxed, female space, with just one other person. I really need you to listen to what I'm saying. I was hoping we could work something out without having to lay down actual rules, but maybe I wasn't clear enough last time we discussed this. This [insert amount of time] is how often I'm okay having your boyfriend over. If you're looking to have him over substantially more often than that, we need to revisit our living arrangements. Okay, what do you think?"

And then your roommate will probably be fussy and try to turn this into how SHE pays RENT so she should be able to do whatever she wants, or how her boyfriend is so NICE and NO TROUBLE, but you can't engage with that. Keep politely but firmly bringing it back to "But if I wanted to live with a boy, I would just go live with a boy. This situation is not what I signed up for. What can we do about that?"

Good luck. I haven't read the above answers yet, but if there are a ton of "You don't get to tell her what to do!" - you know, the vast majority of people don't want to live with a couple if they didn't know in advance they were going to be living with a couple, so don't let people convince you that you're the loon here.
posted by thehmsbeagle at 10:28 PM on November 1, 2007 [2 favorites]

i'm not 100% sure, but i'm fairly certain that my roommate would think him paying part of the rent would be absolutely absurd. i could try to bring it up, though.

I'm 100% sure that if your roommate thinks that, you have a moron for a roommate.

Try to bring it up? Quick, doctor, I need a spine for this patient, STAT! Get up a little more confidence and just tell your roommate how the fuck it is.
posted by Mikey-San at 10:30 PM on November 1, 2007

You agreed to have the boyfriend stay while he looked for his own apartment. You didn't agree to have a couple for roommates, which is what you have now, even if he technically has his own place somewhere else.

thehmsbeagle offers an excellent template.
posted by ambrosia at 10:36 PM on November 1, 2007

it's not like he is taking up the common areas or using any of my stuff.

He's occupying your shower and using utilities you and your roommate have paid for. So, yes, he is using your stuff.

On preview: use what thehmsbeagle said.
posted by cmgonzalez at 10:58 PM on November 1, 2007

decathecting writes "you'd appreciate it if they limited sleepovers to X nights a week (pick a number you'll really be comfortable with, because I'm sure she'll push any limit you set)"

3.5 is the only reasonable number if he has roommates.

timory writes "as far as rent goes, i doubt it would be okay to ask that, either. it's not like he is taking up the common areas or using any of my stuff."

Do they have their own bathroom and kitchen? If not he's using your common space even if it isn't intrusive.

One thing to keep in mind is you're setting precedent. What if she breaks up with this guy and hooks up with a twit in six months? Your roommate at that point could claim with a certain amount of reasonableness that the twit is entitled to the same rights as the old BF.
posted by Mitheral at 2:22 AM on November 2, 2007

3.5 is the only reasonable number if he has roommates.

Only if you assume a boyfriend/girlfriend need to be together every single night.

If a relationship is at the point where the parties need that level of cohabitation it's goddamn well time to cohabitate officially.
posted by Justinian at 3:31 AM on November 2, 2007

don't set limits. just say, "hey, it's been a couple of months and i can't help but notice that jimbo is still spending most of his time over here. do you think he'd mind pitching in on the bills?"

i think they'll start spending more time over at his place.
posted by thinkingwoman at 4:23 AM on November 2, 2007

3.5 is the only reasonable number if he has roommates.

His roommates and situation have nothing to do with it.

A lot of people have given good advice. My advice, as someone who has had problems being firm with other people about things like this is to find someone to role play with. It sounds goofy, but for me it really worked to get me more comfortable to say no very firmly. If you can't get another person, just practice saying it yourself and it may become easier for you.
posted by Melsky at 4:28 AM on November 2, 2007

mitheral: she has her own bathroom/shower. does that change everything?
posted by timory at 5:54 AM on November 2, 2007

timory, you're not being clear, and I suspect that's because you're not being clear with yourself. On the one hand, you say:

honestly if he paid part of the rent, i wouldn't care about him being here so much.

On the other hand, you say:

but he still spends every night here. ... there are a lot of reasons why that is still really annoying when it happens EVERY night. even 4 out of 7 nights would be okay with me.

You have to decide which it is: do you want rent money, or do you want privacy? Because right now, you're sloshing back and forth between one and the other, and you don't seem clear that you have a right to either. You need to pick one, and then say (nicely but firmly) either:

"I'm sorry, but he's here every night, he's in effect a third roommate, and he needs to share the rent."

or:

"I'm sorry, but I didn't sign on for a third (male) roommate, and he needs to spend less time here. I'd be comfortable with [X] nights a week."

If I were you, I'd set X at no more than three, because as decathecting says, she'll push any limit you set. Good luck!
posted by languagehat at 6:40 AM on November 2, 2007

I think thehmsbeagle's answer is the best, and it's one that really can't be argued with.

I live with my sister, and she has a boyfriend, and he's over a lot. I think he's awesome, and I don't even mind that he's here when she's not, because it's nice to have someone so smart and friendly to talk to when I get home from work.

*But* despite the fact that I love him like a brother, if he's over, I can't run around in my underwear while I'm getting ready in the morning. So just say something like that. "I need some boy-free time so that I can walk around bra-less while I'm Nairing my legs. Please ask Honeybear to limit his visits to 3/4 nights per week."
posted by CiaoMela at 6:43 AM on November 2, 2007

timory, just look up and read your own title to this question:

I don't want a 3rd roommate!

Let's breathe deeply and focus on that, shall we? The fact that he uses your roommate's bathroom is completely irrelevant to the point here. He's around every day. You want that to stop. You have every right to ask that to stop.

Also, spend some time thinking about davejay's comment in the other roommate thread yesterday:

Here's a thought: maybe this is a good growth opportunity for you, as such a timid person.

Worth thinking about.
posted by mediareport at 6:49 AM on November 2, 2007

you know, it's funny - i'm not a timid person at all. i'm loud and gregarious and all of that. but i do have a serious problem with people being angry with me. i guess that's the problem.

i need to talk to her as soon as humanly possible, or i'll have even more to stress about for finals.
posted by timory at 7:03 AM on November 2, 2007

I think it is pretty standard, but what really matters is how the two of you feel about this. If it annoys you this much then it is not ok for him to keep coming over every single night. Perhaps she could spend half of her nights at his place.
posted by caddis at 7:06 AM on November 2, 2007

An angle on the rent thing--if he were living there 'officially', as in, the three of you were sharing the place, would she expect the two of them to pay only half the rent and utilities while you paid the other half all by yourself? Of course not--and if she says she would, she's lying.
posted by jacquilynne at 7:52 AM on November 2, 2007

Tell room mates (preferably in advance) that since this is a share it's a rental to a person, not a sublet of private square footage to be used in any and all manners. The same would apply to someone running a business at home. Under any circumstances, only one key per tenant.
posted by StickyCarpet at 7:58 AM on November 2, 2007

I can see why she doesn't think it's a problem, if they have their own bathroom and shower. It kinda seems like you're all friends and he's just gotten used to the familial feeling of being in a comfy area with people he really likes. I sympathize. It had to be weird to live somewhere with two people for a month then have to go to a place all alone. Not everyone likes living alone, you know.

You still need a place for yourself, so you have to find a way to fix this on an emotional level.

So, your goal is to encourage him to feel more comfortable in his new place, and less comfortable in your place. I think he really has to be involved in this process. Here are some quick ideas:

Go visit his place and hang out there a couple of times. Then he'll feel like it's more of a home and they might be willing to spend more time there.

Give him a housewarming party. Really emphasize how jealous you are that he has his own place and now they can have privacy and you're really looking forward to having the house to yourself.

The next time you see him, tell him how glad you are that he has his own place. Etc.

If it doesn't get better in a month, have a sit-down discussion with both of them. That way, she can't make excuses for him, they'll both know that you don't want him there, and that in and of itself will make them want to start hanging out at his place.

Good luck, you seem like a really kind person and someone I would like to live with.
posted by sondrialiac at 8:23 AM on November 2, 2007

resolution!

i just had a talk with my roommate and she is really cool about it. she's going to stay over at his place more often, and since she wants him to be able to do his laundry and shower at our place, she is going to have him chip in for utilities every month.

thank you all for your kind words and great advice.
posted by timory at 8:36 AM on November 2, 2007

Yay, nice work timory!
posted by jessamyn at 8:48 AM on November 2, 2007

Congratulations!
posted by languagehat at 9:00 AM on November 2, 2007

and thanks for the follow-up.
posted by leahwrenn at 11:07 AM on November 2, 2007

That's awesome! Can you tell us how you approached it, so that we can all use your method for the future?
posted by CiaoMela at 11:36 AM on November 2, 2007

Well, because I didn't think either of us would be spending much time at home today - or all weekend, really - so I decided to email her. I don't actually think this is a good idea. In person is best. But it was gnawing at me like crazy, and I had to get it off my chest... and of course I'm much more articulate in writing.

So I was just really nice and light (as much as I could be, anyway) about the whole thing. I told her I had to stick up for myself, but also reminded her that I thought she was a really awesome roommate all in all.

She called me on her lunch break, right after she read the email, because she said she didn't want me sitting around worrying that she had taken it the wrong way. She said I was right and that she doesn't think I'm being unreasonable in the slightest.

But something makes me doubt that all similar situations can end so amicably!
posted by timory at 2:24 PM on November 2, 2007

she's going to stay over at his place more often, and since she wants him to be able to do his laundry and shower at our place, she is going to have him chip in for utilities every month.

And lo, the Timeless Roommate Ground Rules prove themselves once again. :)

I told her I had to stick up for myself, but also reminded her that I thought she was a really awesome roommate all in all.

Perfect. That's a great way to present it.

She said I was right and that she doesn't think I'm being unreasonable in the slightest.

Success! It's always best to be honest about how you're feeling, via email or in person or whatever.

But something makes me doubt that all similar situations can end so amicably!

Sounds like you have a generally nice roommate who just forgot some important ground rules. Bravo to you for having the guts to stand up for yourself, and bravo to her for recognizing that she'd been thoughtlessly rude to you.
posted by mediareport at 8:12 PM on November 2, 2007

tread lightly, and learn from my experience. Please!
posted by sunshinesky at 3:25 AM on November 25, 2007