Surely she's out there SOMEWHERE.
December 23, 2011 11:04 AM Subscribe
How to meet single women in their early 30s who don't want kids?
I live just north of San Francisco, CA -- far enough away that it's too far to date any of the interesting women there -- in Santa Rosa, and I am having a really hard time finding women to date. I have tried lots of things (listed below) and for the most part I am not coming across women my age who are single, and especially not any that don't want kids.
I have tried:
- Local hiking meetups
- Local couchsurfing meetups/potlucks
- Joining local clubs (e.g. mushroom hunting, sailing)
- Going to local events (e.g. free community drumming lessons)
- OK Cupid
- Telling my friends I'm available so they'll set me up
The problem is, with most of these events I am running across much older people (40+ years old) and/or women who are not single. OK Cupid was fun for a while, but now all I find in the local area are ones who are not attractive or don't share similar interests (and my definition of attractive is not narrow). My friends don't seem to have any single female friends, either.
I am not really interested in online dating for now since I feel like people misrepresent themselves on there too much, and while I have made some good friends in the past from it, overall I think it's too much of a time sink if you're not in a big city and don't have a lot of options.
What are some good ways to meet single women between say 28-37 years old (I'm 33), and especially ones that DO NOT want kids (I can't make any and don't want any) ??? I am not looking for a hookup -- those are easy -- so I'm trying to find someone who matches me on the following for long-term compatibility:
- Does not want kids
- Is physically active often
- Likes outdoors (camping, hiking, rafting, cycling, hot springs)
- Is happy and playful and laughs a lot
- Enjoys gardening or cooking or brewing or something food related
- Has lots of interesting life experiences so far (i.e. not boring)
- Is adventurous and likes to travel
- Is experienced sexually and confident in bed
- Has their own thing going on and isn't needy or jealous
- Is emotionally and financially stable
I feel like now that I'm out of school, and so are most other people my age, it's tough to find time to date or to find activities and situations where you're likely to meet other single people with similar interests. Well, I think it'd be super easy if I was in San Francisco (or NYC), but in smaller cities, how do you do it??? (There are about 250,000 people within 10 miles of where I live so I'm not in the boonies)
Am I missing something here? Ideas?
I live just north of San Francisco, CA -- far enough away that it's too far to date any of the interesting women there -- in Santa Rosa, and I am having a really hard time finding women to date. I have tried lots of things (listed below) and for the most part I am not coming across women my age who are single, and especially not any that don't want kids.
I have tried:
- Local hiking meetups
- Local couchsurfing meetups/potlucks
- Joining local clubs (e.g. mushroom hunting, sailing)
- Going to local events (e.g. free community drumming lessons)
- OK Cupid
- Telling my friends I'm available so they'll set me up
The problem is, with most of these events I am running across much older people (40+ years old) and/or women who are not single. OK Cupid was fun for a while, but now all I find in the local area are ones who are not attractive or don't share similar interests (and my definition of attractive is not narrow). My friends don't seem to have any single female friends, either.
I am not really interested in online dating for now since I feel like people misrepresent themselves on there too much, and while I have made some good friends in the past from it, overall I think it's too much of a time sink if you're not in a big city and don't have a lot of options.
What are some good ways to meet single women between say 28-37 years old (I'm 33), and especially ones that DO NOT want kids (I can't make any and don't want any) ??? I am not looking for a hookup -- those are easy -- so I'm trying to find someone who matches me on the following for long-term compatibility:
- Does not want kids
- Is physically active often
- Likes outdoors (camping, hiking, rafting, cycling, hot springs)
- Is happy and playful and laughs a lot
- Enjoys gardening or cooking or brewing or something food related
- Has lots of interesting life experiences so far (i.e. not boring)
- Is adventurous and likes to travel
- Is experienced sexually and confident in bed
- Has their own thing going on and isn't needy or jealous
- Is emotionally and financially stable
I feel like now that I'm out of school, and so are most other people my age, it's tough to find time to date or to find activities and situations where you're likely to meet other single people with similar interests. Well, I think it'd be super easy if I was in San Francisco (or NYC), but in smaller cities, how do you do it??? (There are about 250,000 people within 10 miles of where I live so I'm not in the boonies)
Am I missing something here? Ideas?
I looked at the list of things you have tried and none of them strike me as particularly women-heavy activities. Looking at the list of things you are seeking, for initial suggestions, I would probably make a New Year's goal of trying out classes at every yoga studio in your area, and taking a bunch of gardening and cooking classes too.
posted by cairdeas at 11:11 AM on December 23, 2011 [7 favorites]
posted by cairdeas at 11:11 AM on December 23, 2011 [7 favorites]
What are you doing when you go to these meet-up things? Do you just go a few times and quit when you see there is no 30-year-old who meets the criteria? If you just join things to meet someone, that probably won't work. You've got to have a genuine interest beyond romance that keeps you going back. And when you are genuinely interested in what you are doing and are just generally interested in making friends for the sake of having a rich human experience, those people who are 40+ and those not single women might introduce you to someone under 40 who is single.
posted by amodelcitizen at 11:19 AM on December 23, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by amodelcitizen at 11:19 AM on December 23, 2011 [2 favorites]
Do any of your friends/friends of friends work in or with professionals in time-suck fields like medicine/healthcare, law, or academia/research? I'm in healthcare and academia and know quite a few men and women who meet your criteria (and live in a medium-sized city). When you're a woman advancing in a field like these relationships tend to be learning experiencing in the early, time intensive years, and then, once you've established yourself, you have a lot to offer but it seems like everyone else has already hooked up (and at least some of the time, according to my own observations, my colleagues aren't interested in growing a with kids family, but a partnership family).
So--I think you're already doing the right kinds of things, but add volunteering to what you're doing--women achieving in professional areas are also active in their community. Volunteer for organizations that provide health/legal/outreach services, for example (this is where you would find me, taken though I am). Also, if you have friends in these areas, they may very well know women to introduce you to. See what's going on as far as lectures and benefit events at your local university, as well, and go to the mingle things they have afterwards or before.
Good luck!
posted by rumposinc at 11:19 AM on December 23, 2011 [2 favorites]
So--I think you're already doing the right kinds of things, but add volunteering to what you're doing--women achieving in professional areas are also active in their community. Volunteer for organizations that provide health/legal/outreach services, for example (this is where you would find me, taken though I am). Also, if you have friends in these areas, they may very well know women to introduce you to. See what's going on as far as lectures and benefit events at your local university, as well, and go to the mingle things they have afterwards or before.
Good luck!
posted by rumposinc at 11:19 AM on December 23, 2011 [2 favorites]
You should still maintain your OKcupid profile though because new people come and go on that site all the time. Just put a sticky on your cal to check the site once a month or so.
posted by melissam at 11:22 AM on December 23, 2011
posted by melissam at 11:22 AM on December 23, 2011
Response by poster: Is a yoga class really an appropriate venue to meet women? (I do like yoga, but have always thought of it as one of those activities that are "off limits" for really meeting people, especially dating prospects)
posted by buckaroo_benzai at 11:23 AM on December 23, 2011
posted by buckaroo_benzai at 11:23 AM on December 23, 2011
Yes, it's fine as long as you don't ogle at people or try to talk to them while everyone is actually don't the yoga. People who become regulars often chit chat afterwards. You can chit chat too and get to know people, just take it slow and don't try to go for any quick pickups.
posted by cairdeas at 11:27 AM on December 23, 2011
posted by cairdeas at 11:27 AM on December 23, 2011
Is a yoga class really an appropriate venue to meet women?
No. If you want to do yoga, do yoga. You might also meet some women there, as much as you'd meet women at any other group class and hit it off. There might be some meet market yoga classes where you live, I don't know, but I've taken yoga and the guys who'd come to hit on women were creepy, to me a guy, so I assume they'd set off creepy vibes on the women.
posted by geoff. at 11:27 AM on December 23, 2011 [4 favorites]
No. If you want to do yoga, do yoga. You might also meet some women there, as much as you'd meet women at any other group class and hit it off. There might be some meet market yoga classes where you live, I don't know, but I've taken yoga and the guys who'd come to hit on women were creepy, to me a guy, so I assume they'd set off creepy vibes on the women.
posted by geoff. at 11:27 AM on December 23, 2011 [4 favorites]
If a guy came to my yoga class trying to meet people, that would be weird and I would avoid him. In my class, we generally are quiet and don't talk a lot. It isn't social time. I have made friends through yoga, though, because I see people around outside of class. I think that's okay. But again, you need to have a real interest in yoga. Would you go to yoga if it meant just doing yoga and never meeting anyone? If the answer is no, don't go.
posted by amodelcitizen at 11:28 AM on December 23, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by amodelcitizen at 11:28 AM on December 23, 2011 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: That's pretty much what I thought.
posted by buckaroo_benzai at 11:31 AM on December 23, 2011
posted by buckaroo_benzai at 11:31 AM on December 23, 2011
How to meet women in Yoga class:
Go to yoga, say hello when you walk in, do yoga, focusing on yourself, say namaste as you are leaving
Three weeks later when you run into one of the regulars from class at an art gallery you say "Excuse me don't you go to Yoga at xyz" introduce yourself as you normally do and then precede
As for your list you are never going to know those details without spending time, a lot of time, years even with each person and some of those things change over time. so learn to accept what life will throw at you.
posted by kanemano at 11:49 AM on December 23, 2011 [3 favorites]
Go to yoga, say hello when you walk in, do yoga, focusing on yourself, say namaste as you are leaving
Three weeks later when you run into one of the regulars from class at an art gallery you say "Excuse me don't you go to Yoga at xyz" introduce yourself as you normally do and then precede
As for your list you are never going to know those details without spending time, a lot of time, years even with each person and some of those things change over time. so learn to accept what life will throw at you.
posted by kanemano at 11:49 AM on December 23, 2011 [3 favorites]
or don't share similar interests
Don't let this limit you that much on OkCupid. The key to OkCupid is focusing 100% on compatibility and little else. It's not clear whether you're making the attractiveness determination based on in-person meetings or based on what their profile photos look like. Online dating profile photos are, by the most part, really horrible. Some people who look great on OkCupid are really mediocre looking in real life and vice versa. Also, just because they have different interests doesn't mean they're not good matches. Although both my wife and I do have some interests in common, over time it's compatibility of personalities that has mattered more.
So, ignore interests and focus on people who are at least 80% compatible (my wife was 83% compatible with me on OkCupid. This was the sole reason I looked at her profile, contacted her, and went on a date. She was a blonde at the time; I was into brunettes, plus her profile pictures didn't really do a good job in describing how she looked. I didn't really pay much attention to her specific interests, I just noticed that she was interested in the world in general).
posted by Deathalicious at 11:49 AM on December 23, 2011 [2 favorites]
Don't let this limit you that much on OkCupid. The key to OkCupid is focusing 100% on compatibility and little else. It's not clear whether you're making the attractiveness determination based on in-person meetings or based on what their profile photos look like. Online dating profile photos are, by the most part, really horrible. Some people who look great on OkCupid are really mediocre looking in real life and vice versa. Also, just because they have different interests doesn't mean they're not good matches. Although both my wife and I do have some interests in common, over time it's compatibility of personalities that has mattered more.
So, ignore interests and focus on people who are at least 80% compatible (my wife was 83% compatible with me on OkCupid. This was the sole reason I looked at her profile, contacted her, and went on a date. She was a blonde at the time; I was into brunettes, plus her profile pictures didn't really do a good job in describing how she looked. I didn't really pay much attention to her specific interests, I just noticed that she was interested in the world in general).
posted by Deathalicious at 11:49 AM on December 23, 2011 [2 favorites]
I am 33 and I am leaning heavily toward not having biological kids (though not because of biological issues. May consider adoption, or then again, maybe not). I am telling you this because I want to let you know the frustration is shared by women in similar predicament. And perhaps for good reason.
Personally, I have "found" like-minded men online (albeit very few) but not really. In my case, mostly geography is a problem. I do find it interesting that your bucket-list still rings strikingly similar to those seen in online profiles and yet you haven't found anyone? I think the long bucket-list of wants vs absolute-needs kills things before they begin. I am terribly picky myself so don't get me wrong. Standards are important but there is a difference between must-have and would-be-nice-to-have. If I were to find a like-minded man online...esp on the kids issue and if the moral-compass and life-goals are similar, I would be very much interested in dating him. However, I am not perfect and I'd just like him to give me a break with the rest of his "she is fun/this/that/lives within 10mile radius/must love kittens/must not love kittens..(and on and on and on)" list and give it a serious shot. At this point in life, I have accomplished things that required a lot of sacrifice on other fronts. So for instance, I wont be eligible with your list. Now if I were to meet someone who doesn't want to have kids but is willing to work around other areas or heck, for just once try to ask me the reasons why I am not as outdoorsy as I seem to want to be, thats a different story.
Maybe I am a little more frustrated than you are but I am not cynical. To me, it sounds like you may need to put some of the items on the list on hold till you at least MEET or KNOW someone a bit before striking them off altogether. So to answer your question-
1. know your must-haves and give the women a break with the rest of the stuff at least in the beginning.
2. look at the complete package. There is a flip side to everything.
3. what does "Is happy and playful and laughs a lot" even mean? maybe 18yr olds do that but mature 30 something women likely won't.
posted by xm at 11:52 AM on December 23, 2011 [9 favorites]
Personally, I have "found" like-minded men online (albeit very few) but not really. In my case, mostly geography is a problem. I do find it interesting that your bucket-list still rings strikingly similar to those seen in online profiles and yet you haven't found anyone? I think the long bucket-list of wants vs absolute-needs kills things before they begin. I am terribly picky myself so don't get me wrong. Standards are important but there is a difference between must-have and would-be-nice-to-have. If I were to find a like-minded man online...esp on the kids issue and if the moral-compass and life-goals are similar, I would be very much interested in dating him. However, I am not perfect and I'd just like him to give me a break with the rest of his "she is fun/this/that/lives within 10mile radius/must love kittens/must not love kittens..(and on and on and on)" list and give it a serious shot. At this point in life, I have accomplished things that required a lot of sacrifice on other fronts. So for instance, I wont be eligible with your list. Now if I were to meet someone who doesn't want to have kids but is willing to work around other areas or heck, for just once try to ask me the reasons why I am not as outdoorsy as I seem to want to be, thats a different story.
Maybe I am a little more frustrated than you are but I am not cynical. To me, it sounds like you may need to put some of the items on the list on hold till you at least MEET or KNOW someone a bit before striking them off altogether. So to answer your question-
1. know your must-haves and give the women a break with the rest of the stuff at least in the beginning.
2. look at the complete package. There is a flip side to everything.
3. what does "Is happy and playful and laughs a lot" even mean? maybe 18yr olds do that but mature 30 something women likely won't.
posted by xm at 11:52 AM on December 23, 2011 [9 favorites]
I am not really interested in online dating for now since I feel like people misrepresent themselves on there too much
Again, this is why you go with compatibility. Compatibility is based around how they answer a whole bunch of questions; they're way less likely to fudge on this than they are on their actual profiles, which they may mess around with to seem more appealing or exciting. Go through the OkCupid compatability questions and set some answers as deal breakers -- for instance, if there's a question on having kids, mark "Never, No" as the only acceptable answer for your match, and mark it as important. Similarly, mark questions in sexual adventerousness, outdoor activity, etc. as very important.
Keep in mind, there are people just like you out there actively looking for someone who's a good match, and those people are going to go through the effort of being somewhat honest in the compatability questions so that they'll find someone they like. The OkCupid algorithm is developed by actual math PhDs and is awesomesauce. Use it to your advantage.
posted by Deathalicious at 11:55 AM on December 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
Again, this is why you go with compatibility. Compatibility is based around how they answer a whole bunch of questions; they're way less likely to fudge on this than they are on their actual profiles, which they may mess around with to seem more appealing or exciting. Go through the OkCupid compatability questions and set some answers as deal breakers -- for instance, if there's a question on having kids, mark "Never, No" as the only acceptable answer for your match, and mark it as important. Similarly, mark questions in sexual adventerousness, outdoor activity, etc. as very important.
Keep in mind, there are people just like you out there actively looking for someone who's a good match, and those people are going to go through the effort of being somewhat honest in the compatability questions so that they'll find someone they like. The OkCupid algorithm is developed by actual math PhDs and is awesomesauce. Use it to your advantage.
posted by Deathalicious at 11:55 AM on December 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
1) You are looking for a certain kind of woman who is in high demand. That list would work for just about every guy I know (some of them are waffly on kids, but still). It's generic.
2) Your list only has very general interests (cooking, outdoors, traveling). How about some more specific things? What are you into? If you like caving or rock climbing, for instance, pursue groups focused tightly on that instead of general "outdoorsy" groups. If you don't have narrowed interests, find them. Follow your passion, basically.
3) You might be so focused on your white deer that you are forgetting the utility of the others in the group. You may be bailing too soon to make solid connections with them to take advantage of the networking they offer. Find a group you like and stick with it, regardless of whether your target prey is in residence.
Be open about the no kids thing - that's why online dating is nice, because it's on your profile and you don't have to figure out how to wedge it in conversation. I'm 34, single, and don't want kids. I more or less meet your critera. I also have some really amazing girlfriends who are similar and can't find a guy. We tend to have creativity in overdrive, and though I like camping and stuff, you won't find me in a outdoorsy club. Artsy stuff. Dance. Yoga. Trees are great, yay, but I really need some creative interaction in my hobbies.
posted by griselda at 11:56 AM on December 23, 2011 [2 favorites]
2) Your list only has very general interests (cooking, outdoors, traveling). How about some more specific things? What are you into? If you like caving or rock climbing, for instance, pursue groups focused tightly on that instead of general "outdoorsy" groups. If you don't have narrowed interests, find them. Follow your passion, basically.
3) You might be so focused on your white deer that you are forgetting the utility of the others in the group. You may be bailing too soon to make solid connections with them to take advantage of the networking they offer. Find a group you like and stick with it, regardless of whether your target prey is in residence.
Be open about the no kids thing - that's why online dating is nice, because it's on your profile and you don't have to figure out how to wedge it in conversation. I'm 34, single, and don't want kids. I more or less meet your critera. I also have some really amazing girlfriends who are similar and can't find a guy. We tend to have creativity in overdrive, and though I like camping and stuff, you won't find me in a outdoorsy club. Artsy stuff. Dance. Yoga. Trees are great, yay, but I really need some creative interaction in my hobbies.
posted by griselda at 11:56 AM on December 23, 2011 [2 favorites]
Also, last thing:
Has lots of interesting life experiences so far (i.e. not boring)
There are plenty of people who have had "interesting life experiences" who are boring, and plenty of people who have not had interesting life experiences but are, nonetheless, very interesting. I mean, I would argue that there's definitely more or the former than the latter (as someone who's done a lot of world traveling, I cringe when I find myself rolling my eyes as someone talks about their journey to this or that place -- is that what I sound like to others?), but make sure to meet people in person and have a real conversation rather than ignoring anyone who, say, hasn't yet left the country.
posted by Deathalicious at 12:02 PM on December 23, 2011 [6 favorites]
Has lots of interesting life experiences so far (i.e. not boring)
There are plenty of people who have had "interesting life experiences" who are boring, and plenty of people who have not had interesting life experiences but are, nonetheless, very interesting. I mean, I would argue that there's definitely more or the former than the latter (as someone who's done a lot of world traveling, I cringe when I find myself rolling my eyes as someone talks about their journey to this or that place -- is that what I sound like to others?), but make sure to meet people in person and have a real conversation rather than ignoring anyone who, say, hasn't yet left the country.
posted by Deathalicious at 12:02 PM on December 23, 2011 [6 favorites]
Single women in their 30s that don't want kids AND meet all of your criteria? They exist, but brother, you're fishing in a giant ocean for a very small number of a particular kind of fish. You could take all the advice given here, and you're still facing very long odds.
That list of yours? Narrow it down to the 1-3 things that are really meaningful to you (e.g. Does it really matter that she's both outdoorsy and a gourmet?). Then go widen your own set of personal experiences (e.g. Go do something you've never done before), and maybe you'll find someone that will surprise and delight you with something you didn't expect.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 12:11 PM on December 23, 2011 [11 favorites]
That list of yours? Narrow it down to the 1-3 things that are really meaningful to you (e.g. Does it really matter that she's both outdoorsy and a gourmet?). Then go widen your own set of personal experiences (e.g. Go do something you've never done before), and maybe you'll find someone that will surprise and delight you with something you didn't expect.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 12:11 PM on December 23, 2011 [11 favorites]
+1 for rumposinc's comment on women with time suck careers. ;) I work in software engineering. I do not want kids. I don't see how I could have kids if I was remotely interested given the LONG hours and oncall and all that which go along with my position (which I love, don't get me wrong, but I do not keep hours conducive to rearing munchkins).
On the other hand, working crazy long hours doesn't necessarily make it easy to meet folks to date. I don't really do clubs or hang out at yoga classes or any of the other activities you listed, and neither do any of my female friends who are also not-interested-in-kids software engineers. I met my husband online, but it was many many years ago when I think it was a little easier than it is these days.
posted by lyra4 at 12:21 PM on December 23, 2011
On the other hand, working crazy long hours doesn't necessarily make it easy to meet folks to date. I don't really do clubs or hang out at yoga classes or any of the other activities you listed, and neither do any of my female friends who are also not-interested-in-kids software engineers. I met my husband online, but it was many many years ago when I think it was a little easier than it is these days.
posted by lyra4 at 12:21 PM on December 23, 2011
Response by poster: I know my list probably does sound like a lot of profiles on OK Cupid, but in my case (special snowflake, I know) I actually DO those things and want a partner who likes and appreciates those things, too (not all, but most). I've been camping at least 12 times this year, sailing a half dozen times (working towards certification), skydiving twice, am going to New Zealand in 2012 for 3 weeks, I cook a lot from scratch and have my own organic garden in my yard, a good job and savings (and a job I LOVE), etc. I'm not bragging, I'm just clarifying that I don't say that I'm into this stuff to seem more desirable and in reality only go camping once a year and such.
I'm not looking for a female clone of myself, but I do I appreciate a partner who can join me in the things I like to do versus a partner who is scared to go rafting (etc) or doesn't give a crap about food. I also definitely appreciate when they're into stuff I'm not into, such as painting, or theater, or art crafts, or rock climbing, and so forth.
posted by buckaroo_benzai at 12:24 PM on December 23, 2011 [2 favorites]
I'm not looking for a female clone of myself, but I do I appreciate a partner who can join me in the things I like to do versus a partner who is scared to go rafting (etc) or doesn't give a crap about food. I also definitely appreciate when they're into stuff I'm not into, such as painting, or theater, or art crafts, or rock climbing, and so forth.
posted by buckaroo_benzai at 12:24 PM on December 23, 2011 [2 favorites]
The older I get the more I find requiring hobbies to be similar a joke. You want someone you get along with on a personal, intimate and spiritual level; the fact that they do or do not like sailing is really irrelevant. The hobby can be a great place to meet someone, that's a benefit of hobbies, but thinking they need to like those things is putting your energy in the wrong place.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 12:31 PM on December 23, 2011 [29 favorites]
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 12:31 PM on December 23, 2011 [29 favorites]
I sympathize, because I feel like I could have written this myself (except it for me it would be a guy my age who who wants kids but doesn't already have kids instead of a girl who doesn't want kids). I agree, though, that you need to ease off on the hobby-matching. Someone could be not that into camping herself but still up for camping with you, for example. I don't identify as a gourmet but if someone wanted to cook awesome fresh food for me, I'd be very happy to partake.
Also: you say "surely she's out there SOMEWHERE" but I wonder if maybe she's really not out there in your area. I moved from a busy city with loads of single people in their thirties to a more boondockish area, and it is so much harder to meet like-minded people in general and like-minded single people in particular.
posted by mskyle at 12:41 PM on December 23, 2011 [3 favorites]
Also: you say "surely she's out there SOMEWHERE" but I wonder if maybe she's really not out there in your area. I moved from a busy city with loads of single people in their thirties to a more boondockish area, and it is so much harder to meet like-minded people in general and like-minded single people in particular.
posted by mskyle at 12:41 PM on December 23, 2011 [3 favorites]
I think that as we get older, we get more set in our ways, and it becomes harder and harder to find someone that fits all of our criteria - we are much more flexible about who we are and who we will become when we are younger.
I will nth the suggestion that you re-evaluate your criteria, and think about what is really essential. The way I would evaluate is to consider what would happen if, years into a relationship, they changed. For most people, changing your opinion on having kids would lead to a dissolution of the relationship, but changing taste buds/available time to spend gardening/confidence in skydiving wouldn't have much of an effect. I suspect that by putting emphasis on shared hobbies as much as values will unnecessarily rule out many of the women you could be very happy with. Also, consider that there are women who would happily become hiking partners/competent sous chefs given the right guide (read: you).
You know from experience the type of women who are making themselves available in your area, and you have to decide whether you would prefer to remain single over being with a woman who doesn't share your hobbies. Alternatively, you could consider moving closer to San Francisco to widen your dating pool.
posted by fermezporte at 12:44 PM on December 23, 2011 [2 favorites]
I will nth the suggestion that you re-evaluate your criteria, and think about what is really essential. The way I would evaluate is to consider what would happen if, years into a relationship, they changed. For most people, changing your opinion on having kids would lead to a dissolution of the relationship, but changing taste buds/available time to spend gardening/confidence in skydiving wouldn't have much of an effect. I suspect that by putting emphasis on shared hobbies as much as values will unnecessarily rule out many of the women you could be very happy with. Also, consider that there are women who would happily become hiking partners/competent sous chefs given the right guide (read: you).
You know from experience the type of women who are making themselves available in your area, and you have to decide whether you would prefer to remain single over being with a woman who doesn't share your hobbies. Alternatively, you could consider moving closer to San Francisco to widen your dating pool.
posted by fermezporte at 12:44 PM on December 23, 2011 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Good point, OnTheLastCastle. I guess my hangup with the whole similar hobbies thing is that I'm either working (full time M-F), or I'm camping/hiking/etc out in the woods... so if a potential partner is not into the outdoor hobbies that I'm into, it's just highly unlikely that I'm going to be able to find time to get to know them.
mskyle makes a good point too, that there may be people who aren't into this stuff on their own but would totally want to do it with me... I guess I need to be a bit less picky.
posted by buckaroo_benzai at 12:45 PM on December 23, 2011
mskyle makes a good point too, that there may be people who aren't into this stuff on their own but would totally want to do it with me... I guess I need to be a bit less picky.
posted by buckaroo_benzai at 12:45 PM on December 23, 2011
I'm not looking for a female clone of myself
It kind of sounds like you are, though. And your interests are more typically male. Even the most outdoorsy oriented women I know only go camping maybe 4 times a year, maybe. Because they have careers. They have houses that need maintenance. They have other creative interests they consider more important. The women who do LOTS of outdoorsy things tend to be partnered or married, because their SO can help with the workload so they can do those things.
It's a woman in a very rare situation who has the inclination, time, monetary funds and freedom to do what you do.
posted by griselda at 12:47 PM on December 23, 2011 [7 favorites]
It kind of sounds like you are, though. And your interests are more typically male. Even the most outdoorsy oriented women I know only go camping maybe 4 times a year, maybe. Because they have careers. They have houses that need maintenance. They have other creative interests they consider more important. The women who do LOTS of outdoorsy things tend to be partnered or married, because their SO can help with the workload so they can do those things.
It's a woman in a very rare situation who has the inclination, time, monetary funds and freedom to do what you do.
posted by griselda at 12:47 PM on December 23, 2011 [7 favorites]
I totally agree that your hobbies are not important. Since your desire not to have children is, statistically, a strike against you, you need to be MORE open to meeting as many women as possible who could be matches otherwise, likely including divorcees, widows, etc.
I'm a 30-year old woman who doesn't want children, and if I decided our hobbies needed to mesh I wouldn't have allowed myself to date my wonderful boyfriend. Also, I'm religious and vegan, fit, art snob, a teetotaler and liberal democrat-- my partner is none of these and we're doing just fine, so please don't limit yourself by the false belief that your interests, certain beliefs or hobbies need to be shared. Anecdata: the men I had the most in common with interest-wise ended up having blind spots too similar to mine, while my current partner is my complementary opposite and boy are we going strong because of that.
Honestly, you need to make a list of non-negotiable that reads more like this:
1.) Must be marriage-minded but not want children.
2.) Must be absolutely truthful and reliable and willing to put the requirements of a relationship before personal needs the vast majority of the time.
3.) Must be into a health-conscious lifestyle.
THE END
Also, if I lived outside a major metropolitan area I doubt I'd have found my partner, either-- limiting one's self to the suburbs while trying to find a person not interested in traditional family life (which is basically why the suburbs exist, in the minds of many) is going to be DIFFICULT.
posted by devymetal at 12:50 PM on December 23, 2011 [16 favorites]
I'm a 30-year old woman who doesn't want children, and if I decided our hobbies needed to mesh I wouldn't have allowed myself to date my wonderful boyfriend. Also, I'm religious and vegan, fit, art snob, a teetotaler and liberal democrat-- my partner is none of these and we're doing just fine, so please don't limit yourself by the false belief that your interests, certain beliefs or hobbies need to be shared. Anecdata: the men I had the most in common with interest-wise ended up having blind spots too similar to mine, while my current partner is my complementary opposite and boy are we going strong because of that.
Honestly, you need to make a list of non-negotiable that reads more like this:
1.) Must be marriage-minded but not want children.
2.) Must be absolutely truthful and reliable and willing to put the requirements of a relationship before personal needs the vast majority of the time.
3.) Must be into a health-conscious lifestyle.
THE END
Also, if I lived outside a major metropolitan area I doubt I'd have found my partner, either-- limiting one's self to the suburbs while trying to find a person not interested in traditional family life (which is basically why the suburbs exist, in the minds of many) is going to be DIFFICULT.
posted by devymetal at 12:50 PM on December 23, 2011 [16 favorites]
maybe divide your list into: must have all of these ... ; at least one of these ...
posted by cupcake1337 at 1:05 PM on December 23, 2011
posted by cupcake1337 at 1:05 PM on December 23, 2011
I totally agree with devymetal. Being financially stable and liking to laugh are pretty normal for well-adjusted adults. If you want to keep in the bits about the hobbies, I would abridge them to just "is passionate and dedicated to interests," because that's what it comes down to.
What makes me balk at the list, and your comments, is that the requirements assume a woman who is in the same extremely well-off financial situation as you, which from where I'm standing, is asking a lot. For example, it's condescending to decide that not going camping every month doesn't demonstrate sufficient passion to the hobby, when doing so requires a lot of disposable income, not to mention free time and a flexible job that will allow you to do this.
Here's an example of how your attitude / phrasing might come off more positively. I love yoga, but going to a yoga studio can be expensive - I can barely afford it regularly myself. Instead of requiring that a dude I date be going to yoga classes 4 times a week, I could change that wishlist item to just liking to move and exercise - maybe he plays pick-up sports in the park with his buddies, or something. Even though I don't like sports, it's something we have in common that exercise is a priority for us. Since he's already physically active, maybe he'd be into going hiking with me when we're able to get to fun hiking spots, even if he right now he doesn't identify hiking as something he's into. Do you see how it's some of the same attractive social characteristics without the privilege? Do you see why I skip right along past a dating profile that said something like "I love sailing, I want to date someone who loves sailing too!" when I have never in my life been sailing?
posted by fireflies at 1:09 PM on December 23, 2011 [13 favorites]
What makes me balk at the list, and your comments, is that the requirements assume a woman who is in the same extremely well-off financial situation as you, which from where I'm standing, is asking a lot. For example, it's condescending to decide that not going camping every month doesn't demonstrate sufficient passion to the hobby, when doing so requires a lot of disposable income, not to mention free time and a flexible job that will allow you to do this.
Here's an example of how your attitude / phrasing might come off more positively. I love yoga, but going to a yoga studio can be expensive - I can barely afford it regularly myself. Instead of requiring that a dude I date be going to yoga classes 4 times a week, I could change that wishlist item to just liking to move and exercise - maybe he plays pick-up sports in the park with his buddies, or something. Even though I don't like sports, it's something we have in common that exercise is a priority for us. Since he's already physically active, maybe he'd be into going hiking with me when we're able to get to fun hiking spots, even if he right now he doesn't identify hiking as something he's into. Do you see how it's some of the same attractive social characteristics without the privilege? Do you see why I skip right along past a dating profile that said something like "I love sailing, I want to date someone who loves sailing too!" when I have never in my life been sailing?
posted by fireflies at 1:09 PM on December 23, 2011 [13 favorites]
There are plenty of men out there who do ALL the things you like to participate in so I am not sure how you are a snowflake. From your posts, it seems that you not only have a list but also like to keep score.
Maybe I am totally off in what relationships should entail but my understanding is that two people who can stand alone choose to share their lives because sharing adds to their partner-less lives. A strong-minded, independent, mature woman with a career of her own who is not looking to have kids at all/anytime soon will be put off by the list (and the scoring), in addition to the fact that you are looking for someone who already exists in your mind. There is clearly no room for her individuality or growth or likes or dislikes.
I think the question is not whether you can find such a woman, but whether she thinks you are worth her time! Are you sure such women are around you and you are not driving them them away?
posted by xm at 1:16 PM on December 23, 2011 [8 favorites]
Maybe I am totally off in what relationships should entail but my understanding is that two people who can stand alone choose to share their lives because sharing adds to their partner-less lives. A strong-minded, independent, mature woman with a career of her own who is not looking to have kids at all/anytime soon will be put off by the list (and the scoring), in addition to the fact that you are looking for someone who already exists in your mind. There is clearly no room for her individuality or growth or likes or dislikes.
I think the question is not whether you can find such a woman, but whether she thinks you are worth her time! Are you sure such women are around you and you are not driving them them away?
posted by xm at 1:16 PM on December 23, 2011 [8 favorites]
Response by poster: It seems like there are two main thoughts here:
1) I need to be less picky about finding someone with matching hobbies, and focus more on the big picture things that matter (no kids, healthy lifestyle).
2) It's going to be tough to find what I want if I'm not in a big city like SF.
I seem to have an internal conflict here though. On OK Cupid I can find well over 100 women in my age range who match me 99% in San Francisco and the East Bay. Locally, though, there is only one or two 99% matches. So it seems like perhaps my dream girl is a city girl, but my dream job and lifestyle is up here in Sonoma county (I do agricultural conservation consulting) and I refuse to commute and don't like living in the city anyway (too crowded, dirty, not enough trees, way too expensive, etc). Plus the Santa Rosa area is great in my mind, and I don't feel like I'm lacking anything here (besides the women) -- I can bike to work, grocery shop and gym 3 blocks from home, close to nature, tons of fun things going on in the little towns in the area.
But surely, surely, there are lots of women around here who are awesome and I would have a fine time dating, they're just not on OK Cupid, and I'm clueless about how to meet them! Definitely taking all these suggestions seriously, though!
posted by buckaroo_benzai at 1:18 PM on December 23, 2011
1) I need to be less picky about finding someone with matching hobbies, and focus more on the big picture things that matter (no kids, healthy lifestyle).
2) It's going to be tough to find what I want if I'm not in a big city like SF.
I seem to have an internal conflict here though. On OK Cupid I can find well over 100 women in my age range who match me 99% in San Francisco and the East Bay. Locally, though, there is only one or two 99% matches. So it seems like perhaps my dream girl is a city girl, but my dream job and lifestyle is up here in Sonoma county (I do agricultural conservation consulting) and I refuse to commute and don't like living in the city anyway (too crowded, dirty, not enough trees, way too expensive, etc). Plus the Santa Rosa area is great in my mind, and I don't feel like I'm lacking anything here (besides the women) -- I can bike to work, grocery shop and gym 3 blocks from home, close to nature, tons of fun things going on in the little towns in the area.
But surely, surely, there are lots of women around here who are awesome and I would have a fine time dating, they're just not on OK Cupid, and I'm clueless about how to meet them! Definitely taking all these suggestions seriously, though!
posted by buckaroo_benzai at 1:18 PM on December 23, 2011
I don't really have the objection to the hobbies thing that everyone else seems to be hung up on. Lots of women like to cook and garden. Less of them like the outdoorsy stuff, but you could find some folks while camping, hanging out at REI, stuff like that. You can find folks like this.
But wanting a childfree chick is your #1 problem, because yes, that is rare to find anywhere at all, whatsoever. It rules out like 95% of men and women out there, god help us. I think you really have to focus on that as your #1 thing and then play the hobbies by ear. You're going to have to look for the No Kidding groups and websites (anywhere where the #1 requirement is not wanting kids) and see if you can find anyone remotely near you that's interested in dating, and then take it from there. You're in the Bay Area so that's not AS bad as it could be if you were living in the middle of nowhere.
Alternately, you could look around online for a country girl in some other state on the childfree websites and see if one of you is willing to move to the other. *shrug* It's a possibility, albeit not as awesome of one.
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:23 PM on December 23, 2011
But wanting a childfree chick is your #1 problem, because yes, that is rare to find anywhere at all, whatsoever. It rules out like 95% of men and women out there, god help us. I think you really have to focus on that as your #1 thing and then play the hobbies by ear. You're going to have to look for the No Kidding groups and websites (anywhere where the #1 requirement is not wanting kids) and see if you can find anyone remotely near you that's interested in dating, and then take it from there. You're in the Bay Area so that's not AS bad as it could be if you were living in the middle of nowhere.
Alternately, you could look around online for a country girl in some other state on the childfree websites and see if one of you is willing to move to the other. *shrug* It's a possibility, albeit not as awesome of one.
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:23 PM on December 23, 2011
Response by poster: My list is obviously not winning any fans... I suppose my intent was that I want to find someone who even if they may not be into camping, sailing, whatever, would say "Wow, sailing! That sounds like fun... can I go with you sometime???" instead of "Sailing sounds scary, I would never do that!" I really value people with adventurous, open minds who are willing to try anything. Perhaps THAT should be what I'm looking for? "Adventurous, open-minded woman who will try anything" versus "Woman who likes camping and skydiving"...
posted by buckaroo_benzai at 1:24 PM on December 23, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by buckaroo_benzai at 1:24 PM on December 23, 2011 [3 favorites]
What about looking at women who match you 75% and better, as long as they have the critical 'doesn't want kids' requirement? Try to pre-judge less.
Perhaps THAT should be what I'm looking for? "Adventurous, open-minded woman who will try anything" versus "Woman who likes camping and skydiving"...
YES, definitely!
posted by griselda at 1:26 PM on December 23, 2011 [6 favorites]
Perhaps THAT should be what I'm looking for? "Adventurous, open-minded woman who will try anything" versus "Woman who likes camping and skydiving"...
YES, definitely!
posted by griselda at 1:26 PM on December 23, 2011 [6 favorites]
I agree with everyone above who said a) hobbies don't need to match perfectly and b) there might be someone who is not currently doing these things, but would be happy to start.
But, I'm going to suggest something else, just to be contrary, and just in case it helps. It seems to me like the things you say you've tried, while fine, are sort of generic. And you have a pretty specific (my first thought was "whoa, tall order there!") list of requirements. So I wonder if it wouldn't be better to work backwards from that, instead of the more general ideas for just meeting "people." Assuming your dream woman exists, and that you've spent some time picturing her and her lifestyle, where is she? At any given day/time, what is she doing? Maybe I'm stating the obvious, but sometimes I think so much lip service is given to the "you should be open to anything/anyone" concept, that people are reluctant to name exactly what they want and do what it takes to find that narrowed down thing/person. Does that make any sense?
I mean, I'm trying to picture this woman from your list. She's sort of intimidating me, but this is what I think she does. She goes on packaged trips to exotic locations, the kind of sporty adventure travel where you need to be with a group/tour. She attends local charity galas/parties. She owns a business, and goes to networking meetings for local business people. She takes classes, probably not free one-time things, but more high-end, serious ones. She has a group of similar friends, and they do outdoorsy things in groups. (This is maybe silly, but I just remembered a coffee shop where I used to live, where the decor was all rugged outdoor sports stuff - kayaks hanging from the ceiling, etc. It was just a coffee shop but I never went in there, because I knew it was for people who snowboard. Your girl, though, would totally go in there.) She shops at REI and [insert your local fancy foodie places here.]
You want someone who has basically every area of her life totally together by her mid 30s or younger. That's going to be a certain type of very driven (or maybe just lucky) person. I just don't equate that with random meet-ups or free, non-specific dating sites. Women like this, in my experience, want the best quality everything. Also, to generalize some more, I think women who know for sure they don't want kids from a young-ish age put much more effort into creating a strong "chosen family" group of friends. If there are places near where you live where people are more likely to be doing things in groups, that's where I picture her hanging out.
Maybe I'm actually imagining someone quite different from what you meant, I don't know. But the point is, if you think you know exactly what you want, maybe don't waste time wading through everyone. She's not going to be with everyone, she's going to be looking for a new windbreaker at the Patagonia store. (Or whatever.)
And on preview: you seem to have the money to date someone long-ish distance at first, someone who might consider moving for a relationship if it worked out. I know several couples who did this internationally, actually. They met online, albeit on much more targeted (dating or not-dating-centered) websites. Could you go to SF sometimes for some other fun reason and arrange to meet one of the perfect SF women while there? Plenty of people want to live in big cities while single but wouldn't be averse to moving later.
posted by DestinationUnknown at 1:28 PM on December 23, 2011 [5 favorites]
But, I'm going to suggest something else, just to be contrary, and just in case it helps. It seems to me like the things you say you've tried, while fine, are sort of generic. And you have a pretty specific (my first thought was "whoa, tall order there!") list of requirements. So I wonder if it wouldn't be better to work backwards from that, instead of the more general ideas for just meeting "people." Assuming your dream woman exists, and that you've spent some time picturing her and her lifestyle, where is she? At any given day/time, what is she doing? Maybe I'm stating the obvious, but sometimes I think so much lip service is given to the "you should be open to anything/anyone" concept, that people are reluctant to name exactly what they want and do what it takes to find that narrowed down thing/person. Does that make any sense?
I mean, I'm trying to picture this woman from your list. She's sort of intimidating me, but this is what I think she does. She goes on packaged trips to exotic locations, the kind of sporty adventure travel where you need to be with a group/tour. She attends local charity galas/parties. She owns a business, and goes to networking meetings for local business people. She takes classes, probably not free one-time things, but more high-end, serious ones. She has a group of similar friends, and they do outdoorsy things in groups. (This is maybe silly, but I just remembered a coffee shop where I used to live, where the decor was all rugged outdoor sports stuff - kayaks hanging from the ceiling, etc. It was just a coffee shop but I never went in there, because I knew it was for people who snowboard. Your girl, though, would totally go in there.) She shops at REI and [insert your local fancy foodie places here.]
You want someone who has basically every area of her life totally together by her mid 30s or younger. That's going to be a certain type of very driven (or maybe just lucky) person. I just don't equate that with random meet-ups or free, non-specific dating sites. Women like this, in my experience, want the best quality everything. Also, to generalize some more, I think women who know for sure they don't want kids from a young-ish age put much more effort into creating a strong "chosen family" group of friends. If there are places near where you live where people are more likely to be doing things in groups, that's where I picture her hanging out.
Maybe I'm actually imagining someone quite different from what you meant, I don't know. But the point is, if you think you know exactly what you want, maybe don't waste time wading through everyone. She's not going to be with everyone, she's going to be looking for a new windbreaker at the Patagonia store. (Or whatever.)
And on preview: you seem to have the money to date someone long-ish distance at first, someone who might consider moving for a relationship if it worked out. I know several couples who did this internationally, actually. They met online, albeit on much more targeted (dating or not-dating-centered) websites. Could you go to SF sometimes for some other fun reason and arrange to meet one of the perfect SF women while there? Plenty of people want to live in big cities while single but wouldn't be averse to moving later.
posted by DestinationUnknown at 1:28 PM on December 23, 2011 [5 favorites]
Response by poster: If I search OK Cupid for "girls who like guys", age 27-38, within 25 miles of Santa Rosa, who are single, have a photo, have been on the site in the last year, and who don't want children... I get 3 results above 80%.
If I bump it up to 50 miles (so it includes SF), I get dozens and dozens of matches above 80%.
But... SF is FAR (55 miles from my house). Having to do a lot of planning and driving just to spend time with someone isn't very appealing. I already dated a couple of great women over the past year who lived 30-60 miles away and it was difficult due to the distance. I have no doubt that I could find an amazingly compatible partner in the city, but I'm never going to move there, so it's pointless for me to think about it.
posted by buckaroo_benzai at 1:44 PM on December 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
If I bump it up to 50 miles (so it includes SF), I get dozens and dozens of matches above 80%.
But... SF is FAR (55 miles from my house). Having to do a lot of planning and driving just to spend time with someone isn't very appealing. I already dated a couple of great women over the past year who lived 30-60 miles away and it was difficult due to the distance. I have no doubt that I could find an amazingly compatible partner in the city, but I'm never going to move there, so it's pointless for me to think about it.
posted by buckaroo_benzai at 1:44 PM on December 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
As a 33 year old who doesn't want kids, while you seemed interesting in the beginning, that changed REALLY FAST. You have a life, you don't want to change/compromise and you want someone to fit into that picture. Very likely how the amazingly compatible partners might feel about you.
In conclusion- Date a much, much younger woman than yourself. Um, 18-23 years? (Did I just see the stars?) Unfortunately, they may want to have kids.
Join the club- pick your poison.
----------------
PS- "Adventurous, open-minded woman who will try anything" versus "Woman who likes camping and skydiving"
The latter actually sounds much more fun. Its specific.
posted by xm at 1:49 PM on December 23, 2011 [3 favorites]
In conclusion- Date a much, much younger woman than yourself. Um, 18-23 years? (Did I just see the stars?) Unfortunately, they may want to have kids.
Join the club- pick your poison.
----------------
PS- "Adventurous, open-minded woman who will try anything" versus "Woman who likes camping and skydiving"
The latter actually sounds much more fun. Its specific.
posted by xm at 1:49 PM on December 23, 2011 [3 favorites]
Well... if your #1 priority is location, rather than outdoorsy or childfree...then so be it. And if you'd be miserable living in the city, or even going there at all, then don't try to date city girls. But when you have one or two or more requirements that are really specific, like "must live where I do in a place where there's not tons of dating options" and "not have kids," you may need to relax the rest of your requirements, or find a girl who's at least willing to try the outdoors (though anyone who is all "Eeek, bugs, how could you" should obviously be ruled out).
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:51 PM on December 23, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:51 PM on December 23, 2011 [3 favorites]
50 miles? Seriously? 50 miles is enough to keep you - skydiving, sailing, world travelling, outdoorsy you - from finding a matching partner who would richly improve your life?
Where is your adventurous side?
posted by griselda at 2:02 PM on December 23, 2011 [33 favorites]
Where is your adventurous side?
posted by griselda at 2:02 PM on December 23, 2011 [33 favorites]
Remember: a city is a city because that's where most of the people are.
Moreover, the proportion of single people there is much higher. You shouldn't be surprised that's where most of your matches are coming up; it's just a numbers game.
Chances are, if you've explored the dating pool fully, you're going to have to give up one of your constraints: location, age, appearance, interests, etc.
I know this all sounds dreadfully obvious, but if a specific search isn't working for you, you need to generalize in a way that's comfortable for you.
posted by Betelgeuse at 2:07 PM on December 23, 2011 [3 favorites]
Moreover, the proportion of single people there is much higher. You shouldn't be surprised that's where most of your matches are coming up; it's just a numbers game.
Chances are, if you've explored the dating pool fully, you're going to have to give up one of your constraints: location, age, appearance, interests, etc.
I know this all sounds dreadfully obvious, but if a specific search isn't working for you, you need to generalize in a way that's comfortable for you.
posted by Betelgeuse at 2:07 PM on December 23, 2011 [3 favorites]
+1 Griselda
I fit almost all of the criteria on your list. I'm physically active, like the outdoors, am super happy and playful, love fine food, have interesting life experiences, love to travel, love sex, am non-needy, and emotionally and financially stable. I'm also awesome in a bunch of ways you did not list but would probably appreciate. (A few caveats: I don't camp as often as you do, but I would be happy to camp more. I'm open to kids with the right person, but not insistent on it. I don't have a garden, but I'm a foodie.)
I think you have to be willing to go to San Francisco. The place is full of women like me.
I have over a dozen female friends who live there who fit your criteria. (You've probably found some of them on OkCupid.)
I would seriously, seriously rethink your concerns about driving for an hour to meet women in SF. Get some interesting podcasts and a good sound system for the ride. Possibly a crashpad on a friend's couch or something if you want to stay out late in the city. And then date in SF. I think it's by far your best option.
posted by carolinaherrera at 2:09 PM on December 23, 2011 [3 favorites]
I fit almost all of the criteria on your list. I'm physically active, like the outdoors, am super happy and playful, love fine food, have interesting life experiences, love to travel, love sex, am non-needy, and emotionally and financially stable. I'm also awesome in a bunch of ways you did not list but would probably appreciate. (A few caveats: I don't camp as often as you do, but I would be happy to camp more. I'm open to kids with the right person, but not insistent on it. I don't have a garden, but I'm a foodie.)
I think you have to be willing to go to San Francisco. The place is full of women like me.
I have over a dozen female friends who live there who fit your criteria. (You've probably found some of them on OkCupid.)
I would seriously, seriously rethink your concerns about driving for an hour to meet women in SF. Get some interesting podcasts and a good sound system for the ride. Possibly a crashpad on a friend's couch or something if you want to stay out late in the city. And then date in SF. I think it's by far your best option.
posted by carolinaherrera at 2:09 PM on December 23, 2011 [3 favorites]
SF is FAR (55 miles from my house)
Are you from Europe originally? I don't think I've ever met a North American who thought 55 miles was too far to go for...well, anything! That's perfectly fine, it's your perogative. But it does limit your potential partners. It's like on House Hunters when the naive couple learns they can live close to downtown, OR have a huge lawn, OR pay under $200,000, but not all three, and probably not even two.
posted by DestinationUnknown at 2:13 PM on December 23, 2011 [2 favorites]
Are you from Europe originally? I don't think I've ever met a North American who thought 55 miles was too far to go for...well, anything! That's perfectly fine, it's your perogative. But it does limit your potential partners. It's like on House Hunters when the naive couple learns they can live close to downtown, OR have a huge lawn, OR pay under $200,000, but not all three, and probably not even two.
posted by DestinationUnknown at 2:13 PM on December 23, 2011 [2 favorites]
I'm also on the bandwagon of I wouldn't be so quick to discount all the SF matches.
I mean, sure, ask them if they'd be willing to relocate if it grew serious, but not everyone currently living in a city would refuse to move for a marriage-minded relationship. I've lived in a series of big cities for the past seven years, but I wouldn't be averse to living with a partner somewhere else. If they hit all your other criteria and state that they'd move if it got serious, I'd suck up the commuting for a while to see if you're both a match since the no kids thing is already pretty restrictive on its own. Plus if they say they're down for relocating eventually, presumably they'll also commute to you occasionally...
Also, I agree with many others above that while I'd say I match your list, if you post it like that on your profile I'd be somewhat turned off. I think a great rule of thumb is don't list negatives and/or normal desires -"isn't needy or jealous" just makes you look, well, negative and a little arrogant, while "is happy and playful and laughs a lot" comes off a little condescending and I-want-a-dog-not-a-girlfriend. And ditto to also cutting down the list as every new, specific bullet point will make some woman self-select to not give it a chance when in all actuality she'd be a great match.
posted by vegartanipla at 2:16 PM on December 23, 2011 [4 favorites]
I mean, sure, ask them if they'd be willing to relocate if it grew serious, but not everyone currently living in a city would refuse to move for a marriage-minded relationship. I've lived in a series of big cities for the past seven years, but I wouldn't be averse to living with a partner somewhere else. If they hit all your other criteria and state that they'd move if it got serious, I'd suck up the commuting for a while to see if you're both a match since the no kids thing is already pretty restrictive on its own. Plus if they say they're down for relocating eventually, presumably they'll also commute to you occasionally...
Also, I agree with many others above that while I'd say I match your list, if you post it like that on your profile I'd be somewhat turned off. I think a great rule of thumb is don't list negatives and/or normal desires -"isn't needy or jealous" just makes you look, well, negative and a little arrogant, while "is happy and playful and laughs a lot" comes off a little condescending and I-want-a-dog-not-a-girlfriend. And ditto to also cutting down the list as every new, specific bullet point will make some woman self-select to not give it a chance when in all actuality she'd be a great match.
posted by vegartanipla at 2:16 PM on December 23, 2011 [4 favorites]
I'm with others who think you need to be willing to go to SF. the thing about dating younger women in the 18-23 age range, as xm suggested, is that we tend to be broke, and, that skydiving, outdoorsy, foodie woman in the patagonia sweaters DestinationUnknown described so well? Um, she is really wealthy. Agreed though that she is definitely in SF.
OP, is this list just for yourself personally, or is it somewhere on your Okc profile? if so, where? Depending on the context, I might find a list like that off-putting no matter what was on it. but the "message me if..." portion is designed for just that, and I think (hope?) it's understood that those are aspirational. my list is all separated by "or"s, because any one of them would be lovely.
posted by fireflies at 2:21 PM on December 23, 2011
OP, is this list just for yourself personally, or is it somewhere on your Okc profile? if so, where? Depending on the context, I might find a list like that off-putting no matter what was on it. but the "message me if..." portion is designed for just that, and I think (hope?) it's understood that those are aspirational. my list is all separated by "or"s, because any one of them would be lovely.
posted by fireflies at 2:21 PM on December 23, 2011
Why not increase your age range to include late-20's - 27, 28, 29?
posted by KokuRyu at 2:52 PM on December 23, 2011
posted by KokuRyu at 2:52 PM on December 23, 2011
Date more. Use other sites, take classes, yoga, sailing, etc.. Volunteer to teach classes at Adult Ed., or other places. Be really clear about not wanting children. Be clear about looking for someone, and let people matchmake. You don't have to find the One, you have to find somebody who will introduce you to the One. Join and participate in any outdoor clubs available.
If I read a personal with - Is experienced sexually and confident in bed, I might be intimidated, and I also don't necessarily trust guys with sex requirements in ads.
List camping, sailing, organic gardening, hiking, adventurous, likes to travel. But. Only require -Loves being outdoors. Write a description that lists what you have to offer just as much as what you require. A lot of male looking for female ads are all about I require X. A lot of female looking for male ads are all about I offer X. Bridge that gap.
Don't say - Has their own thing going on and isn't needy or jealous. Needy, jealous people don't know they are. How about I'm emotionally and financially stable, and value that in others. A partner isn't someone you order. Sell yourself a little more, and be a little more open to someone who may not have your list of traits, but may have qualities you will really love; you just don't know it yet. The woman who wouldn't try sailing - fie on her for being a poop, but maybe another person has never had a chance to try it, so doesn't know how wonderful it it.
My uncle was a total outdoors guy. My aunt was frequently terrified by their adventures, but she was always game. They seemed to have a terrific marriage. Someday you will be older. You may value someone who sings beautifully, plays music, and will cheerfully push your wheelchair. Marriage is meant to be for keeps.
posted by theora55 at 3:02 PM on December 23, 2011 [7 favorites]
If I read a personal with - Is experienced sexually and confident in bed, I might be intimidated, and I also don't necessarily trust guys with sex requirements in ads.
List camping, sailing, organic gardening, hiking, adventurous, likes to travel. But. Only require -Loves being outdoors. Write a description that lists what you have to offer just as much as what you require. A lot of male looking for female ads are all about I require X. A lot of female looking for male ads are all about I offer X. Bridge that gap.
Don't say - Has their own thing going on and isn't needy or jealous. Needy, jealous people don't know they are. How about I'm emotionally and financially stable, and value that in others. A partner isn't someone you order. Sell yourself a little more, and be a little more open to someone who may not have your list of traits, but may have qualities you will really love; you just don't know it yet. The woman who wouldn't try sailing - fie on her for being a poop, but maybe another person has never had a chance to try it, so doesn't know how wonderful it it.
My uncle was a total outdoors guy. My aunt was frequently terrified by their adventures, but she was always game. They seemed to have a terrific marriage. Someday you will be older. You may value someone who sings beautifully, plays music, and will cheerfully push your wheelchair. Marriage is meant to be for keeps.
posted by theora55 at 3:02 PM on December 23, 2011 [7 favorites]
Response by poster: Oh no no that list is NOT on my OKC profile, I just made it up on the spot to give a general sense of what type of woman I'm looking for... I did not mean for it to come across as a literal checklist. My profile is no longer up so I can't link to it, but part of it said:
There are tons of things I want to learn, so bonus points if you can teach me about any of the following -- especially on a first date: beekeeping, painting, the art of making pastries, homebrewing, building fine furniture, sewing, welding, cheese making, or kayaking.
and the "You should message me if" section said:
Any of the following are true:
Carl Sagan is your personal hero.
You are sex-positive and happy with being you.
You are respectful, kind, and considerate.
You want to meet up and see where it goes.
Bonus points if you often laugh spontaneously, ride a bike, like to snuggle, own a tent, are a good cook, enjoy massages and hot tubs, and have a passport.
That's just FYI, I'm not really looking for a teardown of my OKC profile at this point since that wasn't the intent of my original question (and I realize that some of those things are non-specific and kinda "duh"). I'm MUCH more interested in meeting people in real life, though if I'm going to branch out to SF I realize OKC may be the best place to start.
I do have some assumptions and concerns about dating someone so far away, though, and would appreciate feedback. My first thought is that women in SF are probably not at all interested in dating someone who lives outside the immediate bay area, much in the same way I am not sure if I'm interested in dating someone in SF (the time commitment driving, how difficult it is to be spontaneous when you're so far away, how long it takes to get to know the other person when you can only see them on weekends -- and even then, not every weekend because you each have your own lives, too. It seems like it would suck to not have opportunities to go grab a drink after work, and would be nearly impossible for me to drive down on a weeknight for a potluck or game night with her and her friends, etc.).
I have great, long term friends (15+ years now) who live in SF and we rarely hang out because their whole world is basically the Mission, and if you don't live there, it's like out of sight out of mind. They never come north for anything. I'm afraid that dating would be the same way.
The effort and practicality of dating someone who lives 10 miles away versus someone who is 50 miles away seems like a completely different ball game. On the one hand, I'd appreciate long distance because I do value my personal time and space and it's easier to get that if long distance is the default, but I also appreciate being able to be spontaneous when I do have free time that I could be spending getting to know someone else.
Ideally I'd like to open my dating pool to SF but it just seems borderline impossible to truly get to know someone who lives that far away, when my only free time is on weekends, and I already have a bunch of other stuff I am involved in and committed to as well (stuff that it's easy to get away from for an hour or two here and there locally, but not for an entire day or weekend to SF).
I've seen long distance relationships work out, sure, but that's always been when people have started out dating locally and then went long distance later (like for school).
I'm just not sure how to make it work from the start... ?
posted by buckaroo_benzai at 3:08 PM on December 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
There are tons of things I want to learn, so bonus points if you can teach me about any of the following -- especially on a first date: beekeeping, painting, the art of making pastries, homebrewing, building fine furniture, sewing, welding, cheese making, or kayaking.
and the "You should message me if" section said:
Any of the following are true:
Carl Sagan is your personal hero.
You are sex-positive and happy with being you.
You are respectful, kind, and considerate.
You want to meet up and see where it goes.
Bonus points if you often laugh spontaneously, ride a bike, like to snuggle, own a tent, are a good cook, enjoy massages and hot tubs, and have a passport.
That's just FYI, I'm not really looking for a teardown of my OKC profile at this point since that wasn't the intent of my original question (and I realize that some of those things are non-specific and kinda "duh"). I'm MUCH more interested in meeting people in real life, though if I'm going to branch out to SF I realize OKC may be the best place to start.
I do have some assumptions and concerns about dating someone so far away, though, and would appreciate feedback. My first thought is that women in SF are probably not at all interested in dating someone who lives outside the immediate bay area, much in the same way I am not sure if I'm interested in dating someone in SF (the time commitment driving, how difficult it is to be spontaneous when you're so far away, how long it takes to get to know the other person when you can only see them on weekends -- and even then, not every weekend because you each have your own lives, too. It seems like it would suck to not have opportunities to go grab a drink after work, and would be nearly impossible for me to drive down on a weeknight for a potluck or game night with her and her friends, etc.).
I have great, long term friends (15+ years now) who live in SF and we rarely hang out because their whole world is basically the Mission, and if you don't live there, it's like out of sight out of mind. They never come north for anything. I'm afraid that dating would be the same way.
The effort and practicality of dating someone who lives 10 miles away versus someone who is 50 miles away seems like a completely different ball game. On the one hand, I'd appreciate long distance because I do value my personal time and space and it's easier to get that if long distance is the default, but I also appreciate being able to be spontaneous when I do have free time that I could be spending getting to know someone else.
Ideally I'd like to open my dating pool to SF but it just seems borderline impossible to truly get to know someone who lives that far away, when my only free time is on weekends, and I already have a bunch of other stuff I am involved in and committed to as well (stuff that it's easy to get away from for an hour or two here and there locally, but not for an entire day or weekend to SF).
I've seen long distance relationships work out, sure, but that's always been when people have started out dating locally and then went long distance later (like for school).
I'm just not sure how to make it work from the start... ?
posted by buckaroo_benzai at 3:08 PM on December 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
As someone in her late-twenties who has never wanted children and who is ecstatically happy in a relationship with an amazing man who has never wanted children, all I can say is: date normally, and bring up the no-kids thing up-front.
I don't think you need to go to "special" places to meet those who are childfree.
I think you should just engage with women who seem compatible/intriguing/fun, whatevs, and bring up the no-kids thing as early as feasible. Yes, you will probably meet a lot of women who aren't onboard with that. But that's the thing with being childfree. It's best to get that idea out there as early as possible in the dating process, and certainly before things get serious.
Like so many other couples (both childfree and childfull), we met through mutual friends. We did some hanging out before we dated. We were both extremely crushed out on each other. I was actually preparing myself for the inevitable letdown that he would want kids (based on his background, I made an assumption that turned out to be way wrong) when he decided to do the big no-kids reveal. And it was good.
From my perspective: date more, meet more people, and maybe ease up on having such a fixed list. Find people who you really connect with, you get you all tingly and excited. And then let her know early that you are not looking to procreate. Yeah, it'll probably jettison a relationship with lots of people (though some may end up being great friends). But you may find others to be delighted.
posted by vivid postcard at 3:15 PM on December 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
I don't think you need to go to "special" places to meet those who are childfree.
I think you should just engage with women who seem compatible/intriguing/fun, whatevs, and bring up the no-kids thing as early as feasible. Yes, you will probably meet a lot of women who aren't onboard with that. But that's the thing with being childfree. It's best to get that idea out there as early as possible in the dating process, and certainly before things get serious.
Like so many other couples (both childfree and childfull), we met through mutual friends. We did some hanging out before we dated. We were both extremely crushed out on each other. I was actually preparing myself for the inevitable letdown that he would want kids (based on his background, I made an assumption that turned out to be way wrong) when he decided to do the big no-kids reveal. And it was good.
From my perspective: date more, meet more people, and maybe ease up on having such a fixed list. Find people who you really connect with, you get you all tingly and excited. And then let her know early that you are not looking to procreate. Yeah, it'll probably jettison a relationship with lots of people (though some may end up being great friends). But you may find others to be delighted.
posted by vivid postcard at 3:15 PM on December 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
I meant: you get you all tingly and excited about.
posted by vivid postcard at 3:19 PM on December 23, 2011
posted by vivid postcard at 3:19 PM on December 23, 2011
Look, you really really super don't want to give dating someone in SF a chance. I get it! That's FINE. Nobody's gonna force you. It just lowers your odds more. If your priority is staying in your town over looking for women (assuming you've dated everyone in Santa Rosa already, or else I guess you wouldn't be asking this), then that's your priority and your choice. But yeah, it may be a case of "I'd rather be alone in Santa Rosa than dating in SF" for you. If you're cool with that, then okay.
But long distance dating isn't that bad, as long as you figure out at some point who's moving to who. I did a short distance relationship from the start for 2 years and only seeing someone 2-3 weekends a month was fine. Gave me time to do my own stuff. We couldn't agree on the moving to thing (among other issues), but if there is seriously NOBODY you can date where you are, you may have to bite that bullet or choose to be alone. Up to you. But we can't move all the cool city girls to Santa Rosa for you.
posted by jenfullmoon at 3:22 PM on December 23, 2011 [4 favorites]
But long distance dating isn't that bad, as long as you figure out at some point who's moving to who. I did a short distance relationship from the start for 2 years and only seeing someone 2-3 weekends a month was fine. Gave me time to do my own stuff. We couldn't agree on the moving to thing (among other issues), but if there is seriously NOBODY you can date where you are, you may have to bite that bullet or choose to be alone. Up to you. But we can't move all the cool city girls to Santa Rosa for you.
posted by jenfullmoon at 3:22 PM on December 23, 2011 [4 favorites]
I know Santa Rosa and everyone in Santa Rosa is shacked up. It's where you move when you get married and you don't care about dating anymore. Seriously. Start hanging out in Petaluma or West County... anywhere but Santa Rosa. You will never meet anyone there.
You also have to realize that most women in their 30s have lives. If you really want someone who meshes so perfectly into your activity schedule you either need to date someone younger (and there's nothing wrong with that), find someone who just moved to town or get super lucky at REI.
posted by fshgrl at 4:10 PM on December 23, 2011 [3 favorites]
You also have to realize that most women in their 30s have lives. If you really want someone who meshes so perfectly into your activity schedule you either need to date someone younger (and there's nothing wrong with that), find someone who just moved to town or get super lucky at REI.
posted by fshgrl at 4:10 PM on December 23, 2011 [3 favorites]
I totally get the SF thing btw, it's worlds apart. You might get lucky and find someone who lives in SF and dreams of moving to Sonoma County but its pretty unlikely. I wouldn't live up there and date random online people in the city either.
posted by fshgrl at 4:13 PM on December 23, 2011
posted by fshgrl at 4:13 PM on December 23, 2011
You're looking for something that's very difficult to find. I found one only because she was a friend of a friend.
But I'll second yoga (and any other fitness classes you can do). I went to yoga when I was single. There was only 1 other guy there and about 20 women. Once I became a regular, I felt like Mike in Desperate Housewives (and I bet it didn't hurt that I could name characters from Desperate Housewives and Melrose Place, and Buffy...)
The other thing to do is lower your age range. The world is full of 25-year-olds who are recently out of college/grad school and ready to settle down.
posted by coolguymichael at 4:14 PM on December 23, 2011
But I'll second yoga (and any other fitness classes you can do). I went to yoga when I was single. There was only 1 other guy there and about 20 women. Once I became a regular, I felt like Mike in Desperate Housewives (and I bet it didn't hurt that I could name characters from Desperate Housewives and Melrose Place, and Buffy...)
The other thing to do is lower your age range. The world is full of 25-year-olds who are recently out of college/grad school and ready to settle down.
posted by coolguymichael at 4:14 PM on December 23, 2011
>How to meet single women in their early 30s who don't want kids?
Academia.
posted by cromagnon at 4:34 PM on December 23, 2011 [3 favorites]
Academia.
posted by cromagnon at 4:34 PM on December 23, 2011 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: Thanks for all the advice and insights. I'm a bit surprised that dating younger women has been suggested so much, but I'll give it a shot. I tend to get mistaken for being about 27 years old anyway.
posted by buckaroo_benzai at 4:37 PM on December 23, 2011
posted by buckaroo_benzai at 4:37 PM on December 23, 2011
I'd second cromagnon - many academic women are child-free, fit, and independent. If there's a university near you, frequenting the coffee shops, bookstores, restaurants, gyms, etc. around it may be wise. And of course, focusing on becoming as happy and amazing and social as you can be on your own is not only worthwhile on its own, but often seems to lead to romance...
posted by Edna Million at 6:15 PM on December 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Edna Million at 6:15 PM on December 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
I have to agree that living in Santa Rosa really decreases your dating pool. I'm an East Bay girl, and I totally hear what you are saying, you want an active outdoorsy person but with city sensibilities.
Looking for someone who doesn't want children is necessarily more easy in the City, or Oakland or Berkeley: people move to places like Santa Rosa to raise children. That's the major hurdle for you.
But I have to agree that finding someone who has a good heart, is emotionally available, and basically a grownup is what's paramount.
posted by honey badger at 8:26 PM on December 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
Looking for someone who doesn't want children is necessarily more easy in the City, or Oakland or Berkeley: people move to places like Santa Rosa to raise children. That's the major hurdle for you.
But I have to agree that finding someone who has a good heart, is emotionally available, and basically a grownup is what's paramount.
posted by honey badger at 8:26 PM on December 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
I think you're putting waaaaaaaaaay too much emphasis on the OKC percentages. Lotsa people have had good things happen when they met people well below 80%.
If the profile and any subsequent communication come across as having potential and there are no deal-breakers, number schmumber.
posted by ambient2 at 9:21 PM on December 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
If the profile and any subsequent communication come across as having potential and there are no deal-breakers, number schmumber.
posted by ambient2 at 9:21 PM on December 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
>How to meet single women in their early 30s who don't want kids?
Academia.
Women in academia, who intend to pursue an independent career, want partners who are willing to compromise in the least and support them. They are usually not looking for grown-up kids to appease. Surviving in academia is hard as it is and to demand 12+ camping trips a year among other sailing stuff and cooking from scratch is just not going to cut it. I mean, they don't even get a decent maternity leave and they are now supposed to have an adventurous spirit as well??? Give 'em a break!
posted by xm at 9:27 PM on December 23, 2011 [4 favorites]
Academia.
Women in academia, who intend to pursue an independent career, want partners who are willing to compromise in the least and support them. They are usually not looking for grown-up kids to appease. Surviving in academia is hard as it is and to demand 12+ camping trips a year among other sailing stuff and cooking from scratch is just not going to cut it. I mean, they don't even get a decent maternity leave and they are now supposed to have an adventurous spirit as well??? Give 'em a break!
posted by xm at 9:27 PM on December 23, 2011 [4 favorites]
You have this incredibly specific list of requirements in a woman and you want that woman to happen to live within 25 miles of you? And you don't live in/near a densely populated area? You need to be willing to drive a little bit here.
I've seen long distance relationships work out
55 miles is not a long distance relationship. People routinely drive that distance daily for work. I get that you don't want a relationship with a commute, but Santa Rosa to SF is not like California to NYC or something.
posted by crankylex at 9:35 PM on December 23, 2011 [2 favorites]
I've seen long distance relationships work out
55 miles is not a long distance relationship. People routinely drive that distance daily for work. I get that you don't want a relationship with a commute, but Santa Rosa to SF is not like California to NYC or something.
posted by crankylex at 9:35 PM on December 23, 2011 [2 favorites]
I do have some assumptions and concerns about dating someone so far away, though, and would appreciate feedback. My first thought is that women in SF are probably not at all interested in dating someone who lives outside the immediate bay area, much in the same way I am not sure if I'm interested in dating someone in SF...
I think what a lot of these comments are getting at is that relationships usually involve compromise and/or sacrifice.
At this point, you have to decide how much you want it if your ideal scenario doesn't fall into your lap. It sounds like maybe you don't want it all that much. Which is fine. But if you do want it, you have to be willing to put the time in.
Dating people to find a partner is a timesuck even if they do live in your town. That's just how it is. If you can't find anyone in your town who suits you, and you know there's a whole load of them less than an hour away, you have to decide whether you're willing to give up even more of your time for the chance to find a partner. The people you'll end up dating in SF - if you decide it's worth it to you to pursue this - will be making the same cost-benefit analysis that you are. Yes, they will find it inconvenient that you live an hour away instead of ten minutes. But since this isn't the ideal world, we will put up with inconveniences if we think the benefits outweigh them. You'll both just have to convince each other that what you might have is worth the time you're investing, and keep reevaluating to see if that keeps holding.
posted by vegartanipla at 10:40 PM on December 23, 2011 [2 favorites]
I think what a lot of these comments are getting at is that relationships usually involve compromise and/or sacrifice.
At this point, you have to decide how much you want it if your ideal scenario doesn't fall into your lap. It sounds like maybe you don't want it all that much. Which is fine. But if you do want it, you have to be willing to put the time in.
Dating people to find a partner is a timesuck even if they do live in your town. That's just how it is. If you can't find anyone in your town who suits you, and you know there's a whole load of them less than an hour away, you have to decide whether you're willing to give up even more of your time for the chance to find a partner. The people you'll end up dating in SF - if you decide it's worth it to you to pursue this - will be making the same cost-benefit analysis that you are. Yes, they will find it inconvenient that you live an hour away instead of ten minutes. But since this isn't the ideal world, we will put up with inconveniences if we think the benefits outweigh them. You'll both just have to convince each other that what you might have is worth the time you're investing, and keep reevaluating to see if that keeps holding.
posted by vegartanipla at 10:40 PM on December 23, 2011 [2 favorites]
There are tons of things I want to learn, so bonus points if you can teach me about any of the following -- especially on a first date: beekeeping, painting, the art of making pastries, homebrewing, building fine furniture, sewing, welding, cheese making, or kayaking.
Holy crap is this intimidating. "I'd like to learn to kayak someday" is fine but reading this I feel like I need a laundry list of not-very-common skills before I make the cut. Take a kayaking class and meet someone that way.
posted by desjardins at 10:45 PM on December 23, 2011 [3 favorites]
Holy crap is this intimidating. "I'd like to learn to kayak someday" is fine but reading this I feel like I need a laundry list of not-very-common skills before I make the cut. Take a kayaking class and meet someone that way.
posted by desjardins at 10:45 PM on December 23, 2011 [3 favorites]
The SF city girl who really likes outdoorsy stuff has to leave the city, right? So, plan hiking dates in-between your locales. SOLVED.
posted by desjardins at 10:53 PM on December 23, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by desjardins at 10:53 PM on December 23, 2011 [3 favorites]
Just a word on the hobbies thing -- my therapist said that she's seen the strongest matches between people with similar values, overlapping interests, and very different personalities. That's held true for me and my husband. I'm very extroverted while he's very introverted; he loves the outdoors, I like it OK but wouldn't be crushed if I never went camping again; I'm a classical musician, he noodles around on the guitar; I cook all our meals from scratch, he's grumpy if he has to do more than dump a jar of sauce over frozen meatballs; he loves tabletop role-playing games, I just can't get into them. Etc etc etc, it goes on and on. But we both love to read, we're both left-libertarian and politically active, we're both giant nerds. . . we're very similar kinds of people, even though we have really different interests and personalities.
If he had presented as "I am this way and you need to be too, because I am not going to budge or change to make room for you in my life unless you will already melt into it on your own," I'd have been left absolutely cold. But instead, he presented as "These are some of my interests! Tell me more about what you like, you seem fun and smart." I'm 36 now, we've been together for 16 years, 8.5 of them married.
tl;dr: make sure you're making room in your life for a whole person, not just a shadow.
posted by KathrynT at 12:39 AM on December 24, 2011 [11 favorites]
If he had presented as "I am this way and you need to be too, because I am not going to budge or change to make room for you in my life unless you will already melt into it on your own," I'd have been left absolutely cold. But instead, he presented as "These are some of my interests! Tell me more about what you like, you seem fun and smart." I'm 36 now, we've been together for 16 years, 8.5 of them married.
tl;dr: make sure you're making room in your life for a whole person, not just a shadow.
posted by KathrynT at 12:39 AM on December 24, 2011 [11 favorites]
I'd focus on joining some online forums that are for people who are childfree or enjoy your type of lifestyle. In larger forums, there's always a group of childfree people.
Since a healthy lifestyle is most important, focus on that.
posted by Ms. Moonlight at 5:03 AM on December 24, 2011
Since a healthy lifestyle is most important, focus on that.
posted by Ms. Moonlight at 5:03 AM on December 24, 2011
fermezporte: "I think that as we get older, we get more set in our ways, and it becomes harder and harder to find someone that fits all of our criteria - we are much more flexible about who we are and who we will become when we are younger. "
Huh. I've found the opposite for me. I get along now with different people much better than I did when I was younger. I also find it way easier to be interested in things that fall outside of my range of personal hobbies and obsessions.
buckaroo_benzai: "I seem to have an internal conflict here though. On OK Cupid I can find well over 100 women in my age range who match me 99% in San Francisco and the East Bay. Locally, though, there is only one or two 99% matches."
Holy crap. You have TWO people who are at 99%!? My wife, when I met her, was at 83%. She was the highest match on my list. Even now she's only at the 95% mark (and, still, the highest on my list). Again, you are clearly being too picky if you're complaining about there being "only" two 99% matches in your area. If you have more than a couple of people who are at 99%, you must have at least a dozen who are above 85%. I guarantee you will have a nice time meeting any of them, even if there ends up not being mutual attraction.
Also, really ignore hobbies and interests. Before I met my wife, if anyone had asked me what my attitude towards professional wrestling, I would have said, "Stupid and boring." If it were considered de rigeur to write out one's attitude towards it on your profile, I would write something like, "I have no intention of ever going to a show." I pretty much thought it was dumb. Well, turns out my wife is a huge fan of pro wrestling. After we were living together a few months, she dragged me out to a show in Philly. It was a local independent promotion, and it was pretty incredible, and now I really enjoy going to shows with her and even watching some matches on TV.
Can I just add how awesome it is that CM Punk and Brian Danielson are world champs right now? What a great Christmas present for all serious wrestling fans. See, this paragraph right here shows how much someone's interests can change.
My point is, because of how ingrained it is in the dating arena, you're pretty much forced into a pro- or anti- outdoors position on your profile (either you have to write something like "I like going out there every weekend and getting my hands dirty" or "I like a nice evening at home"). You're not required to put in your profile, "I strongly dislike professional wrestling." which was 100% my attitude at the time I first met my wife. Pro wrestling is something she really likes though, so we never would have met if she'd made that a priority. A lot of people have had bad experiences camping. It was forced on them as a kid. They got sick. They went somewhere boring. They had to share a cramped tent with an obnoxious sibling. There are so many reasons someone might put "I'm not really the outdoorsy time" on their profile (either explicitly or implicitly). That doesn't mean they will never want to go camping with you or learn to like it if you two really are a good match.
Part of what makes me-liking-pro-wrestling-now more awesome is that my wife had to work at that. It wasnt just something I already had as a default. It's something she drew me into. As a result, it's hard to think about pro wrestling without also thinking about my wife and how awesome she is, which is a pretty cool thing. Imagine how much cooler it will be to be hanging out, having brunch with your 90% compatible girlfriend as she tells one of her friends "buckaroo made camping awesome for me and so now I love it".
posted by Deathalicious at 6:56 AM on December 24, 2011 [3 favorites]
Huh. I've found the opposite for me. I get along now with different people much better than I did when I was younger. I also find it way easier to be interested in things that fall outside of my range of personal hobbies and obsessions.
buckaroo_benzai: "I seem to have an internal conflict here though. On OK Cupid I can find well over 100 women in my age range who match me 99% in San Francisco and the East Bay. Locally, though, there is only one or two 99% matches."
Holy crap. You have TWO people who are at 99%!? My wife, when I met her, was at 83%. She was the highest match on my list. Even now she's only at the 95% mark (and, still, the highest on my list). Again, you are clearly being too picky if you're complaining about there being "only" two 99% matches in your area. If you have more than a couple of people who are at 99%, you must have at least a dozen who are above 85%. I guarantee you will have a nice time meeting any of them, even if there ends up not being mutual attraction.
Also, really ignore hobbies and interests. Before I met my wife, if anyone had asked me what my attitude towards professional wrestling, I would have said, "Stupid and boring." If it were considered de rigeur to write out one's attitude towards it on your profile, I would write something like, "I have no intention of ever going to a show." I pretty much thought it was dumb. Well, turns out my wife is a huge fan of pro wrestling. After we were living together a few months, she dragged me out to a show in Philly. It was a local independent promotion, and it was pretty incredible, and now I really enjoy going to shows with her and even watching some matches on TV.
Can I just add how awesome it is that CM Punk and Brian Danielson are world champs right now? What a great Christmas present for all serious wrestling fans. See, this paragraph right here shows how much someone's interests can change.
My point is, because of how ingrained it is in the dating arena, you're pretty much forced into a pro- or anti- outdoors position on your profile (either you have to write something like "I like going out there every weekend and getting my hands dirty" or "I like a nice evening at home"). You're not required to put in your profile, "I strongly dislike professional wrestling." which was 100% my attitude at the time I first met my wife. Pro wrestling is something she really likes though, so we never would have met if she'd made that a priority. A lot of people have had bad experiences camping. It was forced on them as a kid. They got sick. They went somewhere boring. They had to share a cramped tent with an obnoxious sibling. There are so many reasons someone might put "I'm not really the outdoorsy time" on their profile (either explicitly or implicitly). That doesn't mean they will never want to go camping with you or learn to like it if you two really are a good match.
Part of what makes me-liking-pro-wrestling-now more awesome is that my wife had to work at that. It wasnt just something I already had as a default. It's something she drew me into. As a result, it's hard to think about pro wrestling without also thinking about my wife and how awesome she is, which is a pretty cool thing. Imagine how much cooler it will be to be hanging out, having brunch with your 90% compatible girlfriend as she tells one of her friends "buckaroo made camping awesome for me and so now I love it".
posted by Deathalicious at 6:56 AM on December 24, 2011 [3 favorites]
I read some great advice when I started going on OK Cupid that went something like this: you don't want to disqualify too early. Why? Because once you get to know someone, you may find that certain things you thought were important turn out to be less important given that other factors are true. For instance, my now-serious (we are moving in together) boyfriend had a picture of himself with a dog on his profile and that scared me off because I am not a pet person and not having pets in the home was an important factor for me. It turns out the dog in the picture was a pet he used to live with in his past relationship and does not live with now, and he could go either way on having one again depending on who he was with. If I had gone in on the first date all 'having dogs disqualifies YOU!' I would have missed out on learning all the other things about him that actually do make him compatible with me. If he had wound up with someone else who likes dogs, he may have happily gotten and/or put up with another one. But given all that is right about US, he turned out to be totally negotiable on the dog. Similarly, one might be quite happy living where they are living, but they might be amenable to moving for the right person. Or YOU might be, given a certain situation. If you disqualify too early based on things which might in fact turn out to be negotiable, you could miss out on a really happy relationship.
As far as hobbies and interests go, it's good to have SOME in common (BF and I both enjoy similar tv shows, movies, books and video games). But I have one interest he completely doesn't care about (for which I belong to a message board devoted to that topic) and he is passionate about baseball, which I do not care about. But you know what? My dad LOVES baseball. So now he feels like he has a special thing with my dad. And if he wants to take a day to go watch baseball, I am quite happy to spend the day at home doing the hobby I have which he doesn't care about :)
posted by JoannaC at 8:14 AM on December 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
As far as hobbies and interests go, it's good to have SOME in common (BF and I both enjoy similar tv shows, movies, books and video games). But I have one interest he completely doesn't care about (for which I belong to a message board devoted to that topic) and he is passionate about baseball, which I do not care about. But you know what? My dad LOVES baseball. So now he feels like he has a special thing with my dad. And if he wants to take a day to go watch baseball, I am quite happy to spend the day at home doing the hobby I have which he doesn't care about :)
posted by JoannaC at 8:14 AM on December 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
I think there has been a lot of great advice on here already, but I'll just throw another one out there. Have you tried some of the other dating websites, particularly, the paid ones? Many of my friends who have found their significant others online said that they had tried both OKC and the paid dating sites such as match.com and eharmony.com. With the paid sites, it seemed that there was less of an emphasis on the match percentages as well as more dedication to actually trying to find a relationship that would work out, because people had invested money into it.
I'm also another one of those people who is not fond of the outdoors--I mean, my idea of camping is staying in a hotel room without a bathtub--but for the sake of my ex, who was a country boy, I'd go hiking with him. The good thing is that about halfway through our relationship, when I wanted to volunteer on organic farms for a few weeks, he was more than up for something like that. So, another data point for saying that maybe you can find a woman who mostly fits but doesn't perfectly fit, and the two of you can learn to enjoy each others' hobbies as well.
posted by so much modern time at 1:42 PM on December 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
I'm also another one of those people who is not fond of the outdoors--I mean, my idea of camping is staying in a hotel room without a bathtub--but for the sake of my ex, who was a country boy, I'd go hiking with him. The good thing is that about halfway through our relationship, when I wanted to volunteer on organic farms for a few weeks, he was more than up for something like that. So, another data point for saying that maybe you can find a woman who mostly fits but doesn't perfectly fit, and the two of you can learn to enjoy each others' hobbies as well.
posted by so much modern time at 1:42 PM on December 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
so much modern time: "Many of my friends who have found their significant others online said that they had tried both OKC and the paid dating sites such as match.com and eharmony.com. With the paid sites, it seemed that there was less of an emphasis on the match percentages as well as more dedication to actually trying to find a relationship that would work out, because people had invested money into it."
Unless there has been a major change on eHarmony, this is not true. eHarmony is almost certainly a bad idea for someone who does not want children as it is geared strongly towards people who are extremely, extremely traditional. Also, unlike being able to browse through a selection of choices and making the decisions yourself, eHarmony cherry picks a few selections that will be your "match". I don't know what criteria they picked for me, because apparently they thought an earnestly Jewish intellectual feminist guy would be a perfect match for a lady over 300 miles away who rated Jesus as one of the more important "men" in her life and answered the question, "Where would you like to live one day?" with "Wherever my husband decides we will live."
I haven't encountered a single person who has had any level of success with eHarmony and I suspect they are an excellent match for traditionally-minded, marriage-focused Christians but not great for anyone else. OP is seriously completely off the radar for an ideal eHarmony candidate.
eHarmony uses the same concepts as OkCupid -- match percentages -- only they won't tell you what the numbers are, or why the numbers are what they say they are, or anyone who doesn't hit a certain percentage. In fact, on OkCupid you're entirely free to ignore match percentages entirely if you want. On eHarmony you have no other choice.
Which is why for some reason according to them there was no one in a 300 mile radius who was even close, when it's entirely possible that my wife and I had profiles on the website at the same time (a year or two before we met) while living in the same town. I never bothered paying because the matches were so terrible but I feel bad for people who fork out money to eHarmony and then discover how shitty it is.
That's why, whenever I hear someone mention eHarmony, I have to jump in and say never give money to eHarmony.
Unless you are an evangelical Christian (and, if you are, why not just go to your church to meet someone?) you will almost certainly meet a better match on OkCupid than you will on eHarmony. You will have more control (and by "more" I mean "total control" vs. "no control whatsoever") over who you can see and contact, and you can do this for free.
TLDR: eHarmony sucks. Don't ever give eHarmony money.
posted by Deathalicious at 2:32 PM on December 24, 2011 [3 favorites]
Unless there has been a major change on eHarmony, this is not true. eHarmony is almost certainly a bad idea for someone who does not want children as it is geared strongly towards people who are extremely, extremely traditional. Also, unlike being able to browse through a selection of choices and making the decisions yourself, eHarmony cherry picks a few selections that will be your "match". I don't know what criteria they picked for me, because apparently they thought an earnestly Jewish intellectual feminist guy would be a perfect match for a lady over 300 miles away who rated Jesus as one of the more important "men" in her life and answered the question, "Where would you like to live one day?" with "Wherever my husband decides we will live."
I haven't encountered a single person who has had any level of success with eHarmony and I suspect they are an excellent match for traditionally-minded, marriage-focused Christians but not great for anyone else. OP is seriously completely off the radar for an ideal eHarmony candidate.
eHarmony uses the same concepts as OkCupid -- match percentages -- only they won't tell you what the numbers are, or why the numbers are what they say they are, or anyone who doesn't hit a certain percentage. In fact, on OkCupid you're entirely free to ignore match percentages entirely if you want. On eHarmony you have no other choice.
Which is why for some reason according to them there was no one in a 300 mile radius who was even close, when it's entirely possible that my wife and I had profiles on the website at the same time (a year or two before we met) while living in the same town. I never bothered paying because the matches were so terrible but I feel bad for people who fork out money to eHarmony and then discover how shitty it is.
That's why, whenever I hear someone mention eHarmony, I have to jump in and say never give money to eHarmony.
Unless you are an evangelical Christian (and, if you are, why not just go to your church to meet someone?) you will almost certainly meet a better match on OkCupid than you will on eHarmony. You will have more control (and by "more" I mean "total control" vs. "no control whatsoever") over who you can see and contact, and you can do this for free.
TLDR: eHarmony sucks. Don't ever give eHarmony money.
posted by Deathalicious at 2:32 PM on December 24, 2011 [3 favorites]
Does your future girlfriend really have to be outdoorsy? I realize it's a strong preference, but is it an absolute necessity? If you take twelve camping trips a year, that's one per month. If you date someone who hates camping, I don't see any reason you couldn't go on your monthly trip with friends while your girlfriend uses that weekend to catch up with her friends or do whatever she likes to do on her own.
posted by whitelily at 5:38 PM on December 24, 2011
posted by whitelily at 5:38 PM on December 24, 2011
This thread is closed to new comments.
Another thing you might try is getting active in your local community theatre group. You're more likely to find eligible childfree women there (no statistical cites, but it worked for my now-husband and me!) It's not that theatre is such a hotbed of child-freedom as such. ..but it is traditionally a refuge for those who never felt they fit in anywhere else.
posted by BostonTerrier at 11:11 AM on December 23, 2011