Am I gay and blocked? Bisexual? Help me understand!
October 10, 2010 8:37 PM Subscribe
Straight man questioning his sexuality and trying to work it out. I can comfortably flirt with men but feel no corresponding attraction. Puzzled and turning to Ask Metafilter for help.
Straight man questioning his sexuality and trying to work it out. I can comfortably flirt with men but feel no corresponding attraction. Puzzled and turning to Ask Metafilter for help.
I am a male in my 30’s in NYC and have always thought of myself as heterosexual. Have only had relationships and sex with women and have never been attracted to men. When I am relaxed and daydreaming and thoughts about sex enter my mind they are about women.
But I have always felt comfortable around gay men and feel strongly about discrimination against LGBT people. One time a male colleague asked me out and I was kind of flattered, not “zomg! Why does he think I am gay??”
Recently a guy I did not know flirted with me and I found myself flirting back, and it was natural, I mean it just felt right, though it was unexpected I was comfortable with it. Then I flirted with another guy I did not know and it was likewise cool. But I have no corresponding attraction or fantasy about men. I have tried thinking about sex with a man and it just does not resonate. I do not have a negative feeling about it, just does not arouse me.
So. I can comfortably flirt with another man, it feels cool, but I don’t feel attracted. I could see myself flirting with a guy and hanging out, having a few drinks and enjoying conversation but can not see myself being intimate with a man.
1) Does this mean that I am somehow disconnected or blocked from my sexuality?
2) Should I feel like I want to have sex with a man given I am comfortable flirting with him?
3) Isn’t it dishonest to flirt if I am not interested in having sex/relationship?
4) I took a Kinsey Scale test online and I was rated a Kinsey 2, which is right before bisexuality, “2- Predominantly heterosexual, but more than incidentally homosexual”
What does that even mean? I could not find a Kinsey Scale explanation that would spell out what “more than incidentally homosexual” means.
Any other advice, suggestions, experiences, whatever, welcome. Also, I am not the person who has posted on this topic over the last few months and I alerted a mod before posting so they could verify this. I mention it because I am hoping people do not reply with “Haven’t you already asked about this several times?”
Straight man questioning his sexuality and trying to work it out. I can comfortably flirt with men but feel no corresponding attraction. Puzzled and turning to Ask Metafilter for help.
I am a male in my 30’s in NYC and have always thought of myself as heterosexual. Have only had relationships and sex with women and have never been attracted to men. When I am relaxed and daydreaming and thoughts about sex enter my mind they are about women.
But I have always felt comfortable around gay men and feel strongly about discrimination against LGBT people. One time a male colleague asked me out and I was kind of flattered, not “zomg! Why does he think I am gay??”
Recently a guy I did not know flirted with me and I found myself flirting back, and it was natural, I mean it just felt right, though it was unexpected I was comfortable with it. Then I flirted with another guy I did not know and it was likewise cool. But I have no corresponding attraction or fantasy about men. I have tried thinking about sex with a man and it just does not resonate. I do not have a negative feeling about it, just does not arouse me.
So. I can comfortably flirt with another man, it feels cool, but I don’t feel attracted. I could see myself flirting with a guy and hanging out, having a few drinks and enjoying conversation but can not see myself being intimate with a man.
1) Does this mean that I am somehow disconnected or blocked from my sexuality?
2) Should I feel like I want to have sex with a man given I am comfortable flirting with him?
3) Isn’t it dishonest to flirt if I am not interested in having sex/relationship?
4) I took a Kinsey Scale test online and I was rated a Kinsey 2, which is right before bisexuality, “2- Predominantly heterosexual, but more than incidentally homosexual”
What does that even mean? I could not find a Kinsey Scale explanation that would spell out what “more than incidentally homosexual” means.
Any other advice, suggestions, experiences, whatever, welcome. Also, I am not the person who has posted on this topic over the last few months and I alerted a mod before posting so they could verify this. I mention it because I am hoping people do not reply with “Haven’t you already asked about this several times?”
It's a spectrum. You're not 100% heterosexual (no one is). You're also not gay. You're a pretty shade of grey, like the rest if the human race.
Being gay means you identify as gay, you want to have relationships with people of the same sex, and you want to to have sex with people of the same sex. Doesn't sound like that's where you are.
This whole "sexuality is fluid!" thing is way easier for ladies in our culture, but for anecdotal evidence I frequently flirt with girls, compliment their tits, hold their hands, joke that we're on dates, tell them I love them, hump them on the dance floor, et cetera. I also know that we're not about to move to Vermont and buy a cottage and get a few cats. Flirting is just flirting.
posted by Juliet Banana at 8:44 PM on October 10, 2010 [8 favorites]
Being gay means you identify as gay, you want to have relationships with people of the same sex, and you want to to have sex with people of the same sex. Doesn't sound like that's where you are.
This whole "sexuality is fluid!" thing is way easier for ladies in our culture, but for anecdotal evidence I frequently flirt with girls, compliment their tits, hold their hands, joke that we're on dates, tell them I love them, hump them on the dance floor, et cetera. I also know that we're not about to move to Vermont and buy a cottage and get a few cats. Flirting is just flirting.
posted by Juliet Banana at 8:44 PM on October 10, 2010 [8 favorites]
Maybe you're just flirtatious. Flirting is a skill that doesn't necessarily apply only to one sex. In may ways, the way straight women often interact with each other (platonically) would be viewed as flirting if they did it with a man.
If you have no attraction to men, no matter how hard you try, you probably aren't into men sexually. At least not enough to have sex with one. I could find a woman attractive or maybe even flirt with one, but the idea of being with one kinda grosses me out (not other women being together, just myself being with one).
But don't flirt with guys if you have zero intention of dating a guy. Not like there's a rule that you have to get with every person you flirt with, it's just not the best practice.
posted by elpea at 8:46 PM on October 10, 2010
If you have no attraction to men, no matter how hard you try, you probably aren't into men sexually. At least not enough to have sex with one. I could find a woman attractive or maybe even flirt with one, but the idea of being with one kinda grosses me out (not other women being together, just myself being with one).
But don't flirt with guys if you have zero intention of dating a guy. Not like there's a rule that you have to get with every person you flirt with, it's just not the best practice.
posted by elpea at 8:46 PM on October 10, 2010
If you want to flirt with men, flirt with men. If you want to make out with men, make out with men. If you don't want to, then don't. That's about what it boils down to. "More than incidentally homosexual" means pretty much whatever you want it to mean. Relax and flirt with whoever you want.
*shrug* I'm pretty active in the "gay scene," and there are plenty of straight men who seem only interested in flirting/hanging out with gay men. I'll warn you, however, that there are plenty of rumors and bets about them.
posted by honeydew at 8:49 PM on October 10, 2010 [4 favorites]
*shrug* I'm pretty active in the "gay scene," and there are plenty of straight men who seem only interested in flirting/hanging out with gay men. I'll warn you, however, that there are plenty of rumors and bets about them.
posted by honeydew at 8:49 PM on October 10, 2010 [4 favorites]
Do you feel any sort of attraction, just not sexual? You may be biromantic but heterosexual or some other combination. It's really not as black and white as it seems.
In either case, quit worrying. If you feel particularly attracted to another man or unsatisfied with relationships with women, make a move; otherwise, don't worry about it. You don't have to redefine who you are or your self-image or whatever.
posted by wayland at 8:58 PM on October 10, 2010
In either case, quit worrying. If you feel particularly attracted to another man or unsatisfied with relationships with women, make a move; otherwise, don't worry about it. You don't have to redefine who you are or your self-image or whatever.
posted by wayland at 8:58 PM on October 10, 2010
I am bisexual and am terrible at flirting with people of every gender, regardless of how personally attractive I find them. I would argue, therefore, that being a successful flirt has nothing to do with sexual attraction. As others say upthread, do what you want to do. In any case, I can pretty much guarantee you that will change over time, which makes stable definitions that much more pointless.
posted by obliquicity at 9:02 PM on October 10, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by obliquicity at 9:02 PM on October 10, 2010 [2 favorites]
3) Isn’t it dishonest to flirt if I am not interested in having sex/relationship?
No. Not in my book, anyway, where flirting is very distinct from 'hitting on'. Fun conversation, playful teasing, mildly provocative humour, and all that sort of flirty fun is far from a guarantee of sex. Outright comments about how sexy they are, touching them in more than a pat on the shoulder kind of way, and that sort of thing is hitting on them, and is dishonest if you don't intend to follow through.
As for the rest, I say carry on sleeping with people you have fun sleeping with and flirting with people you have fun flirting with.
posted by twirlypen at 9:03 PM on October 10, 2010 [2 favorites]
No. Not in my book, anyway, where flirting is very distinct from 'hitting on'. Fun conversation, playful teasing, mildly provocative humour, and all that sort of flirty fun is far from a guarantee of sex. Outright comments about how sexy they are, touching them in more than a pat on the shoulder kind of way, and that sort of thing is hitting on them, and is dishonest if you don't intend to follow through.
As for the rest, I say carry on sleeping with people you have fun sleeping with and flirting with people you have fun flirting with.
posted by twirlypen at 9:03 PM on October 10, 2010 [2 favorites]
Flirting does not equal intention. I flirt all the time. I have just finished flirting with my very straight, married, 52 year old South African workmate Barry (Barry just loves a bit of sass). I swear he flirts back, though he might dispute that.
I am straight, married to all intents and purposes, and find Barry about as sexually attractive as finding blood in my urine.
Flirting is just another form of human interaction. It has developed connotations of sexual attraction but need not be restricted to that. As long as no one is getting hurt and everyone knows where they stand, flirting is fun and fine!
posted by smoke at 9:07 PM on October 10, 2010 [14 favorites]
I am straight, married to all intents and purposes, and find Barry about as sexually attractive as finding blood in my urine.
Flirting is just another form of human interaction. It has developed connotations of sexual attraction but need not be restricted to that. As long as no one is getting hurt and everyone knows where they stand, flirting is fun and fine!
posted by smoke at 9:07 PM on October 10, 2010 [14 favorites]
Here's my reaction just as a data point, not the definitive right answer. I think of "flirting" as something that one does only with people of the gender(s) one is attracted to. So, to be honest, the way you've repeatedly described yourself as "flirting" with men does strike me as dissonant with your description of yourself as straight. But again, just because I see it this way doesn't mean you have to see it this way.
Are you actually repressing gay feelings? I don't know. I'm not a psychologist; I couldn't expound the Kinsey Scale for you. But since you seem completely open-minded about the whole topic; you only ever find yourself fantasizing about women; and the times you've consciously considered the idea of sex with a man it's left you cold ... well, that sure sounds to me like you're straight, not at all bisexual. (As I said: this is what it sounds like to me, as a data point. "What it sounds like to me" is not identical to: all the actual facets of your psyche.)
Maybe you're just easily flattered! Maybe you just like having these interactions, the way you might get some enjoyment and an ego boost from having a flirty conversation with a woman who you believe has a thing for you even if you don't find her attractive at all. Two people are allowed to have a fun conversation without needing to categorize or justify it.
And I agree with doublehappy: flirting is a no-obligation, casual way people can have a good time. It doesn't need to lead to anything more. It's even fine if you're sure it won't lead to anything more. I think most people would agree with this as applied to a straight man and straight woman flirting with each other, and I don't see the major difference when it's a straight man and gay man flirting. You shouldn't give horribly mixed messages or seriously lead people on, but I don't see the harm with just having an enjoyable conversation.
The one way it seems possibly unethical to me is if the other person actively dislikes the flirting process and is only doing it as a means to an end. Then there'd be an argument that you're letting him go through an unpleasant process with no benefit to him. But I don't see any reason to assume that.
posted by John Cohen at 9:09 PM on October 10, 2010
Are you actually repressing gay feelings? I don't know. I'm not a psychologist; I couldn't expound the Kinsey Scale for you. But since you seem completely open-minded about the whole topic; you only ever find yourself fantasizing about women; and the times you've consciously considered the idea of sex with a man it's left you cold ... well, that sure sounds to me like you're straight, not at all bisexual. (As I said: this is what it sounds like to me, as a data point. "What it sounds like to me" is not identical to: all the actual facets of your psyche.)
Maybe you're just easily flattered! Maybe you just like having these interactions, the way you might get some enjoyment and an ego boost from having a flirty conversation with a woman who you believe has a thing for you even if you don't find her attractive at all. Two people are allowed to have a fun conversation without needing to categorize or justify it.
And I agree with doublehappy: flirting is a no-obligation, casual way people can have a good time. It doesn't need to lead to anything more. It's even fine if you're sure it won't lead to anything more. I think most people would agree with this as applied to a straight man and straight woman flirting with each other, and I don't see the major difference when it's a straight man and gay man flirting. You shouldn't give horribly mixed messages or seriously lead people on, but I don't see the harm with just having an enjoyable conversation.
The one way it seems possibly unethical to me is if the other person actively dislikes the flirting process and is only doing it as a means to an end. Then there'd be an argument that you're letting him go through an unpleasant process with no benefit to him. But I don't see any reason to assume that.
posted by John Cohen at 9:09 PM on October 10, 2010
I don't think this needs to be overthinked. Flirting is fun and it makes you feel good. I don't think it's too strange to flirt with people you wouldn't necessarily want to sleep with, as long as it's all in good fun for both of you and no one's feelings are getting hurt.
posted by Solon and Thanks at 9:25 PM on October 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Solon and Thanks at 9:25 PM on October 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
Straight people aren't naturally disgusted by homosexual people or behaviors. You have other options besides "ugh gross" and "yes sex." It sounds like you feel comfortable around gay people. This does not make you gay.
posted by prefpara at 9:35 PM on October 10, 2010 [18 favorites]
posted by prefpara at 9:35 PM on October 10, 2010 [18 favorites]
Flirting is fun, period. It's fun to have the kind of conversation where things are upbeat and silly and I think it's a good thing that you can do this with other men without losing your shit. (Even though you are, I guess, freaking out a little bit.) I'm straight and I've flirted with all types, young and old. And, of course, I've flirted with gay men, too. No chance of anything happening there, right? There is something really freeing about having a flirty conversation with a man and know that it doesn't have to go anywhere -- which is what I'm having if doing so with a gay man. I've also flirted with lesbians before. However, on that last note, I do proceed with caution. I really don't want to send mixed signals or lead them on. I draw a line in my behavior there.
For you to have this kind of conversation with other men is a good thing, in my opinion. But, be wary of the line. Experiment if you want but don't be a tease. Being a flirt doesn't make you gay, straight, bi or anything else. It makes you good at flirting. Take a deep breath. I think you're okay.
posted by amanda at 9:35 PM on October 10, 2010
For you to have this kind of conversation with other men is a good thing, in my opinion. But, be wary of the line. Experiment if you want but don't be a tease. Being a flirt doesn't make you gay, straight, bi or anything else. It makes you good at flirting. Take a deep breath. I think you're okay.
posted by amanda at 9:35 PM on October 10, 2010
Get rid of this notion that you have an "actual" sexuality that you can block. Sexuality is a difficult, evolving concept that is often influenced by cultural factors. Please challenge your sexuality often but don't expect any sudden revelations.
And nth'ing Juliet Banana that sexual fluidity is harder for men, so don't be too hard on yourself.
posted by anonymuk at 9:37 PM on October 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
And nth'ing Juliet Banana that sexual fluidity is harder for men, so don't be too hard on yourself.
posted by anonymuk at 9:37 PM on October 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Dude, the only reason you're confused is because there is this overarching thread in our society that if a heterosexual man interacts with gays in anything but an openly hostile manner it means he will catch "The Fag." You're not gay, you're just flirtatious and super-chill about gay people.
To put it this way, consider how many straight women make out with women and gay men and women make out with members of the opposite sex without questioning their identified sexual orientation or having it questioned by others. You only randomly flirt. Don't worry about it.
posted by Anonymous at 9:41 PM on October 10, 2010
To put it this way, consider how many straight women make out with women and gay men and women make out with members of the opposite sex without questioning their identified sexual orientation or having it questioned by others. You only randomly flirt. Don't worry about it.
posted by Anonymous at 9:41 PM on October 10, 2010
If a physically unattractive woman who was outgoing, fun, and flirty was doing some mild flirting with you, would you enjoy flirting back even if you didn't want to sleep with her at all?
I think it's possible you just enjoy attention! There are all kinds of people (male, female, gay, straight) who are exhilarated by their ability to draw romantic interest, attention, and pursuit. Even if they're not actually interested at all in the people they're drawing it from.
Also, schroedinger nailed it with this: Dude, the only reason you're confused is because there is this overarching thread in our society that if a heterosexual man interacts with gays in anything but an openly hostile manner it means he will catch "The Fag."
I'm straight, I have women come on to me relatively often, and I also find it flattering and positive rather than terrifying and repellent or anything like that. The fact that I don't find it repellent does not make me question my sexuality, though.
As to whether or not you should flirt with the guys, if it's a guy who flirts with everyone and it's obviously meaningless, I don't think there's any harm in it. If there's a chance the guy is serious with it, it wouldn't be nice to lead him on.
posted by Ashley801 at 9:50 PM on October 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
I think it's possible you just enjoy attention! There are all kinds of people (male, female, gay, straight) who are exhilarated by their ability to draw romantic interest, attention, and pursuit. Even if they're not actually interested at all in the people they're drawing it from.
Also, schroedinger nailed it with this: Dude, the only reason you're confused is because there is this overarching thread in our society that if a heterosexual man interacts with gays in anything but an openly hostile manner it means he will catch "The Fag."
I'm straight, I have women come on to me relatively often, and I also find it flattering and positive rather than terrifying and repellent or anything like that. The fact that I don't find it repellent does not make me question my sexuality, though.
As to whether or not you should flirt with the guys, if it's a guy who flirts with everyone and it's obviously meaningless, I don't think there's any harm in it. If there's a chance the guy is serious with it, it wouldn't be nice to lead him on.
posted by Ashley801 at 9:50 PM on October 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
In my life, I've known a few straight guys who are excellent flirters. (This is so rare, I find!) Hot women, grannies, queer men, queer women -- doesn't matter, they find flirting fun and so they'll play the game with anybody who throws them the bait. Why not? Flirtation isn't always about trying to get into someone's pants; it can also be about subtly playing with sexual energy in a way that makes everybody in the conversation feel good about themselves. Definitely one of the few conversational arts that is NOT means-ends oriented, and is just about playfulness.
Anyway, these skillful, come-one-come-all flirters also seem to be far more comfortable with their (hetero) sexuality than your average Joe. Not coincidentally, they're also three of the most attractive guys I've ever met, and never have trouble scoring a date. I think, on the whole, women like men who are comfortable enough with themselves that they're willing to make others feel good about themselves without worrying about what an onlooker might think.
TL;DR: If you're good at flirting, then flirt on. Some lovely lady will probably be smitten by your equal-opportunity charms.
posted by artemisia at 9:51 PM on October 10, 2010 [6 favorites]
Anyway, these skillful, come-one-come-all flirters also seem to be far more comfortable with their (hetero) sexuality than your average Joe. Not coincidentally, they're also three of the most attractive guys I've ever met, and never have trouble scoring a date. I think, on the whole, women like men who are comfortable enough with themselves that they're willing to make others feel good about themselves without worrying about what an onlooker might think.
TL;DR: If you're good at flirting, then flirt on. Some lovely lady will probably be smitten by your equal-opportunity charms.
posted by artemisia at 9:51 PM on October 10, 2010 [6 favorites]
You sound pretty straight to me - and not homophobic. I get the impression that you're somehow convinced that just because you're not uncomfortable around gay men or repulsed by flirting with them, that must mean you're repressing a latent attraction to them against all evidence. But you also sound like exactly the kind of open-minded guy who wouldn't be repressing anything.
Plus, flirting's fun, and it's often as much about the challenge of verbal sparring and about making you feel like hot stuff as it is about the person you're flirting with. I've flirted with all kinds of people who I had no intention of bangin' or desire to bang.
And maybe you're not completely straight, but are only comfortable flirting, for now or forever; that's fine. It's as legit a sexuality as any. There's no law that says you need to be 100% straight and only have sex with women and only flirt with women and only dance with women and only make out with women OR ELSE you have to have sex with guys. Maybe your version of a Kinsey 2 is that flirting with guys does it for you, but making out with them doesn't. So flirt away.
posted by you're a kitty! at 9:52 PM on October 10, 2010
Plus, flirting's fun, and it's often as much about the challenge of verbal sparring and about making you feel like hot stuff as it is about the person you're flirting with. I've flirted with all kinds of people who I had no intention of bangin' or desire to bang.
And maybe you're not completely straight, but are only comfortable flirting, for now or forever; that's fine. It's as legit a sexuality as any. There's no law that says you need to be 100% straight and only have sex with women and only flirt with women and only dance with women and only make out with women OR ELSE you have to have sex with guys. Maybe your version of a Kinsey 2 is that flirting with guys does it for you, but making out with them doesn't. So flirt away.
posted by you're a kitty! at 9:52 PM on October 10, 2010
Clarification: by "most attractive," I don't mean that they're objectively good-looking. Just that they exude a pretty powerful charisma.
posted by artemisia at 9:52 PM on October 10, 2010
posted by artemisia at 9:52 PM on October 10, 2010
It is entirely possible to flirt with people you don't like "that way".
posted by amtho at 9:54 PM on October 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by amtho at 9:54 PM on October 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
Just another data point, but this happens to me all the time. I think it's because I can just sort-of naturally fall into conversations with complete strangers; likely a combination of listening skills, empathy, story-telling ability, tangent-jumping tendencies, and a proclivity of quasi-confrontational small talk. Whatever the reason, I remember during my single days feeling frustrated that I never seemed to have the same positive reaction with the actual targets of my attention.
Does this mean that I am somehow disconnected or blocked from my sexuality?
I consider myself about as non-gray on the hetero- side of the sexuality spectrum as possible. I think the real determining factor is have you ever had any kind of sexual fantasy (or reality) involving a guy. If anything I think this means you're more connected and less "blocked" from your sexuality if you're not trying to avoid situations with gay men just because they seem to respond well to you. I mean, if you're not gay, what does it matter?
Should I feel like I want to have sex with a man given I am comfortable flirting with him?
Well, flirting is different than talking. Flirting = conversation + attraction. But just being able to strike up conversations with gay men doesn't make you gay all by itself.
Isn’t it dishonest to flirt if I am not interested in having sex/relationship?
Yes.
I took a Kinsey Scale test online […] What does that even mean?
It means they want to bill your credit card $24.95 for some personalized sexuality report.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 10:37 PM on October 10, 2010
Does this mean that I am somehow disconnected or blocked from my sexuality?
I consider myself about as non-gray on the hetero- side of the sexuality spectrum as possible. I think the real determining factor is have you ever had any kind of sexual fantasy (or reality) involving a guy. If anything I think this means you're more connected and less "blocked" from your sexuality if you're not trying to avoid situations with gay men just because they seem to respond well to you. I mean, if you're not gay, what does it matter?
Should I feel like I want to have sex with a man given I am comfortable flirting with him?
Well, flirting is different than talking. Flirting = conversation + attraction. But just being able to strike up conversations with gay men doesn't make you gay all by itself.
Isn’t it dishonest to flirt if I am not interested in having sex/relationship?
Yes.
I took a Kinsey Scale test online […] What does that even mean?
It means they want to bill your credit card $24.95 for some personalized sexuality report.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 10:37 PM on October 10, 2010
It's a sad statement about our society (NOT you) when a non-homophobic, nice guy is wondering about his sexuality because he is not homophobic, and is comfortable around gay men.
I think it's great; I wish there were more heterosexual guys like you. And I agree that no one is 100% heterosexual.
I also think women flirt and are affection with other women a lot of the time, without it meaning they want to have sex with other women. FOr some reason it's not cool wth Americans for men to do this.
posted by bearette at 11:58 PM on October 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
I think it's great; I wish there were more heterosexual guys like you. And I agree that no one is 100% heterosexual.
I also think women flirt and are affection with other women a lot of the time, without it meaning they want to have sex with other women. FOr some reason it's not cool wth Americans for men to do this.
posted by bearette at 11:58 PM on October 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
1] No. If you felt ashamed or guilty for doing it, then that might be something to wonder about, but even that wouldn't mean you were "blocked". If you're concerned, get hold of some gay porn, watch it and see what happens. I see that you've already considered the thought and it did nothing for you. There's your answer.
2] No. Flirting is not sex. Sex is a lot further "down the line" than flirting is. Flirting is usually used to make someone know that you're interested in them, while maintaining a distance so that the other person can respond or not respond as they see fit. The men you're flirting with might think that you're interested in them, so you might want to dial back on the flirting if you're not, but it's not some kind of contract. You don't have to be up for it if you're not up for it, if you'll forgive the pun.
3] You might be leaving some disappointed people behind if you reveal your interest and then don't follow through, so I guess in one sense it's dishonest given that you have no actual intention. However, people are allowed to change their minds and not follow through on a specific action, so anything other then a slight miffed-ness on the part of the other person would be unreasonable. I think the Golden Rule applies here - how would you feel if a cute girl started flirting with you in a bar and then revealed that she wasn't interested in your gender at all and the flirting was going nowhere? You'd get over it I'm sure, but you'd probably also be wondering WTF just happened.
4] The Kinsey scale was developed way back in the day when pretty much every gay person was in the closet, and it was used to show that everyone is on a scale and that it's OK to be slightly gay/fully gay/somewhere in between. It's over 60 years old, and society has moved on a lot since then. The results of the test show that it has been decided that you fit here. The problem is that someone else has decided that you fit here. Someone else's interpretation is only kind of relevant. What do you identify as? That's the only really relevant thing.
In summation: Flirting is not sex. Leading people on is not a nice thing to do. Talking to gay men doesn't make you gay any more than talking to the Pope would make you Catholic. What you feel about yourself is what matters most. If you're not feeling it when you do it, chances are you don't like it.
posted by Solomon at 1:16 AM on October 11, 2010
2] No. Flirting is not sex. Sex is a lot further "down the line" than flirting is. Flirting is usually used to make someone know that you're interested in them, while maintaining a distance so that the other person can respond or not respond as they see fit. The men you're flirting with might think that you're interested in them, so you might want to dial back on the flirting if you're not, but it's not some kind of contract. You don't have to be up for it if you're not up for it, if you'll forgive the pun.
3] You might be leaving some disappointed people behind if you reveal your interest and then don't follow through, so I guess in one sense it's dishonest given that you have no actual intention. However, people are allowed to change their minds and not follow through on a specific action, so anything other then a slight miffed-ness on the part of the other person would be unreasonable. I think the Golden Rule applies here - how would you feel if a cute girl started flirting with you in a bar and then revealed that she wasn't interested in your gender at all and the flirting was going nowhere? You'd get over it I'm sure, but you'd probably also be wondering WTF just happened.
4] The Kinsey scale was developed way back in the day when pretty much every gay person was in the closet, and it was used to show that everyone is on a scale and that it's OK to be slightly gay/fully gay/somewhere in between. It's over 60 years old, and society has moved on a lot since then. The results of the test show that it has been decided that you fit here. The problem is that someone else has decided that you fit here. Someone else's interpretation is only kind of relevant. What do you identify as? That's the only really relevant thing.
In summation: Flirting is not sex. Leading people on is not a nice thing to do. Talking to gay men doesn't make you gay any more than talking to the Pope would make you Catholic. What you feel about yourself is what matters most. If you're not feeling it when you do it, chances are you don't like it.
posted by Solomon at 1:16 AM on October 11, 2010
1) Does this mean that I am somehow disconnected or blocked from my sexuality?
From what you have said, you sound much, MUCH more self-aware than most straight men I know. If you are comfortable enough to admit you like flirting with men, but genuinely feel nothing, I think you have all the answers you need right there.
2) Should I feel like I want to have sex with a man given I am comfortable flirting with him?
Not at all. Gay men flirt with women all the time, there's no promise of sex there. Go out, have fun, don't think too much about it.
3) Isn’t it dishonest to flirt if I am not interested in having sex/relationship?
This depends on a lot of variables, but the default answer is closer to 'no' than 'yes'. You sound like a pretty sensitive, intelligent guy. I'm sure you're observant enough to follow the queues from other people to know whether you are crossing the line from fun to something more serious. Again, try not to over-analyse it.
4) The Kinsey stuff: forget it. If this question shows anything, it's that you don't need a number to tell you what your sexuality is.
posted by londonmark at 4:52 AM on October 11, 2010
From what you have said, you sound much, MUCH more self-aware than most straight men I know. If you are comfortable enough to admit you like flirting with men, but genuinely feel nothing, I think you have all the answers you need right there.
2) Should I feel like I want to have sex with a man given I am comfortable flirting with him?
Not at all. Gay men flirt with women all the time, there's no promise of sex there. Go out, have fun, don't think too much about it.
3) Isn’t it dishonest to flirt if I am not interested in having sex/relationship?
This depends on a lot of variables, but the default answer is closer to 'no' than 'yes'. You sound like a pretty sensitive, intelligent guy. I'm sure you're observant enough to follow the queues from other people to know whether you are crossing the line from fun to something more serious. Again, try not to over-analyse it.
4) The Kinsey stuff: forget it. If this question shows anything, it's that you don't need a number to tell you what your sexuality is.
posted by londonmark at 4:52 AM on October 11, 2010
Mod note: From the OP:
Appreciate everyone’s comments, you have all been very helpful in helping me think of this as a spectrum and that flirting within boundaries (don’t lead anyone on, no one gets hurt) is acceptable.posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:04 AM on October 11, 2010
you're a kitty! I get the impression that you're somehow convinced that just because you're not uncomfortable around gay men or repulsed by flirting with them, that must mean you're repressing a latent attraction to them against all evidence. But you also sound like exactly the kind of open-minded guy who wouldn't be repressing anything.
I appreciate you saying that, I am open-minded, but I guess my point is, maybe I lament that I do not have the attraction that flows from the flirting? Like I can experience the flirting and imagine going out for drinks and making an emotional connection with a man but it stops there and it is kind of a shame. So I was wondering if I could be blocked or, yes, I guess, repressed somehow. By “shame” I mean that being bisexual must be a gift in that you can relate on an emotional and physical level and experience love with either gender. It has to be pretty amazing. Attracted to people, just whoever.
It sounds like you are an open-minded person that is comfortable with the idea of homosexuality and feel strongly that LGBT people should have the same rights as everyone else. Flirting with someone doesn't mean you want to have sex with them. Sorry, thebones, completely disagree - flirting is not "leading them on" and "dishonest" - it's not a promise! People flirt with others that they have no intention of dating all the time. I flirted with the guy that filled my prescription at the drug store the other day, not because I was interested or leading him on, but because I felt like being friendly, he was receptive, and it felt good to brighten his day.
posted by coupdefoudre at 7:04 AM on October 11, 2010
posted by coupdefoudre at 7:04 AM on October 11, 2010
A few notes about bisexuality. These are just my opinions and views, really.
I think a lot of times we define bisexuality just as strictly as we do homosexuality or heterosexuality. Supposedly, if you're attracted to both genders, you're interested in serious-ass relationships with both genders, you're attracted to them both totally equally, you are just as happy dining at the oyster bar as the hot dog cart, and you just can't live without sleeping with people of both genders all the time.
So, everyone is either gay or straight or 50/50 bisexual, right? Then why do way more than half of young female bisexuals end up with men? What about all the people who get drunk and make out with people of the same sex? What about the people who are just sluts (no offense intended, it's a compliment) and don't really care who they get their bang on with? What about all the married dudes I see in the gay bar every weekend? What about the fact that a huge percentage of straight-identified people have had a homosexual sexual experience, and a huge percentage of gay-identified people have had some form of heterosexual sex?
I'm not saying that 50/50 bisexuals don't exist. But I'm saying a lot of us are 60/40, or 80/20, or 99/1. That's why we call it a spectrum, y'all.
I have found, personally, that I'm way more comfortable with my sexuality when I figured out my ratio and what it meant for my relationships. I tried real fucking hard to be a 50/50 bisexual for a long time, and felt real shitty when my relationships with women just didn't work out (oh noes I'm such a shitty lesbian and I must be one of those fake bisexuals who is basically just looking for a third for her and her boyfriend!)
But you know what? I'm about 80% attracted to dudes. Most of the people I find myself wanting to get my bang on with are men, and I'm only interested in seriously dating men.
Does this mean I'm not going to keep flirting with girls and occasionally partaking in some of the fine-ass bounty of Chicago fillies? Fuck no. But because I know I'm only about 20% into girls, I'm not going to lead anyone on; I don't think it's fair of me to ask girls on serious dates, or primarily identify myself as bisexual.
And it's actually totally OK that I do want to make out with girls and dance with them scandalously and occasionally end up in bed with them while remaining primarily attracted to men, as long as I'm upfront and honest. I don't have to force myself into being 50/50 just so I can list myself as "bisexual" on Facebook.
It's totally OK if you only want to flirt and befriend dudes and not get your bang on or run skipping through meadows holding hands. You don't have to be gay or straight or 50/50 bisexual. As long as you're upfront and honest about your desires to yourself and others, you're gonna be just fine.
posted by Juliet Banana at 7:40 AM on October 11, 2010 [8 favorites]
I think a lot of times we define bisexuality just as strictly as we do homosexuality or heterosexuality. Supposedly, if you're attracted to both genders, you're interested in serious-ass relationships with both genders, you're attracted to them both totally equally, you are just as happy dining at the oyster bar as the hot dog cart, and you just can't live without sleeping with people of both genders all the time.
So, everyone is either gay or straight or 50/50 bisexual, right? Then why do way more than half of young female bisexuals end up with men? What about all the people who get drunk and make out with people of the same sex? What about the people who are just sluts (no offense intended, it's a compliment) and don't really care who they get their bang on with? What about all the married dudes I see in the gay bar every weekend? What about the fact that a huge percentage of straight-identified people have had a homosexual sexual experience, and a huge percentage of gay-identified people have had some form of heterosexual sex?
I'm not saying that 50/50 bisexuals don't exist. But I'm saying a lot of us are 60/40, or 80/20, or 99/1. That's why we call it a spectrum, y'all.
I have found, personally, that I'm way more comfortable with my sexuality when I figured out my ratio and what it meant for my relationships. I tried real fucking hard to be a 50/50 bisexual for a long time, and felt real shitty when my relationships with women just didn't work out (oh noes I'm such a shitty lesbian and I must be one of those fake bisexuals who is basically just looking for a third for her and her boyfriend!)
But you know what? I'm about 80% attracted to dudes. Most of the people I find myself wanting to get my bang on with are men, and I'm only interested in seriously dating men.
Does this mean I'm not going to keep flirting with girls and occasionally partaking in some of the fine-ass bounty of Chicago fillies? Fuck no. But because I know I'm only about 20% into girls, I'm not going to lead anyone on; I don't think it's fair of me to ask girls on serious dates, or primarily identify myself as bisexual.
And it's actually totally OK that I do want to make out with girls and dance with them scandalously and occasionally end up in bed with them while remaining primarily attracted to men, as long as I'm upfront and honest. I don't have to force myself into being 50/50 just so I can list myself as "bisexual" on Facebook.
It's totally OK if you only want to flirt and befriend dudes and not get your bang on or run skipping through meadows holding hands. You don't have to be gay or straight or 50/50 bisexual. As long as you're upfront and honest about your desires to yourself and others, you're gonna be just fine.
posted by Juliet Banana at 7:40 AM on October 11, 2010 [8 favorites]
I don't think this really means anything about your sexuality, except that you're pretty secure. You describe what you're doing as "flirting," but there's a really fine line between flirting and bantering.
posted by Ragged Richard at 8:23 AM on October 11, 2010
posted by Ragged Richard at 8:23 AM on October 11, 2010
I expect that you have also flirted at times with women you had no actual desire for. say to get a better service / coffee at a cafe.
That you will do the same towatrds gay men is just indicative of being 'chill' with it (as someopne above said)
posted by mary8nne at 8:31 AM on October 11, 2010
That you will do the same towatrds gay men is just indicative of being 'chill' with it (as someopne above said)
posted by mary8nne at 8:31 AM on October 11, 2010
II mean that being bisexual must be a gift in that you can relate on an emotional and physical level and experience love with either gender. It has to be pretty amazing. Attracted to people, just whoever.
I'm bisexual and have never thought of it this way at all, mostly because there is so much pressure to "ZOMG PICK ONE YOU FREAK." When I date women, there's pressure to be a "real" lesbian. When I date men, my queer identity becomes invisible and I'm shunned from the GLBT community (which is very bias towards the G & L with Bs and Ts often getting left out) for not being "gay enough." It's never, ever felt like anything other than a mess. But hey, it's MY mess.
And as bisexual lady, I'll flirt with people when it's appropriate to do so - friendly banter or whatever. I often flirt with ladies who I know to be straight. There are never any expectations attached as I'm upfront about also being monogamously married. It's the same thing as any straight person flirting with a friend, only my flirting isn't limited by gender. That's all. As long as you're not actively leading someone into thinking you'll sleep with them, it's harmless. Don't ask someone out on a date or invite them up to your room if you have no intention of sexual interaction, but flirting? Go for it.
(And Juliet Banana is right about the spectrum: I've had 50/50 relationships with men and women, but all of my extracurricular crushes? LADIES. ZOMG LADIES ARE SO PRETTY. I can be emotionally attracted to individual men and have satisfying relationships with them, but on a general level? I am *physically* far more attracted to women. It's definitely a spectrum and not "bisexual means you're equally attracted to both socially accepted genders." Cos also, there are more genders and blah blah blah.)
posted by sonika at 10:04 AM on October 11, 2010 [2 favorites]
I'm bisexual and have never thought of it this way at all, mostly because there is so much pressure to "ZOMG PICK ONE YOU FREAK." When I date women, there's pressure to be a "real" lesbian. When I date men, my queer identity becomes invisible and I'm shunned from the GLBT community (which is very bias towards the G & L with Bs and Ts often getting left out) for not being "gay enough." It's never, ever felt like anything other than a mess. But hey, it's MY mess.
And as bisexual lady, I'll flirt with people when it's appropriate to do so - friendly banter or whatever. I often flirt with ladies who I know to be straight. There are never any expectations attached as I'm upfront about also being monogamously married. It's the same thing as any straight person flirting with a friend, only my flirting isn't limited by gender. That's all. As long as you're not actively leading someone into thinking you'll sleep with them, it's harmless. Don't ask someone out on a date or invite them up to your room if you have no intention of sexual interaction, but flirting? Go for it.
(And Juliet Banana is right about the spectrum: I've had 50/50 relationships with men and women, but all of my extracurricular crushes? LADIES. ZOMG LADIES ARE SO PRETTY. I can be emotionally attracted to individual men and have satisfying relationships with them, but on a general level? I am *physically* far more attracted to women. It's definitely a spectrum and not "bisexual means you're equally attracted to both socially accepted genders." Cos also, there are more genders and blah blah blah.)
posted by sonika at 10:04 AM on October 11, 2010 [2 favorites]
"I have always felt comfortable around gay men and feel strongly about discrimination against LGBT people."
This is irrelevant as to whether you're straight or bi. It just means you're a good person. I'd think that if you only cared about discrimination of people just like you, you'd be a hypocrite. Yay for not being a hypocrite :)
"Recently a guy I did not know flirted with me and I found myself flirting back, and it was natural, I mean it just felt right, though it was unexpected I was comfortable with it. Then I flirted with another guy I did not know and it was likewise cool. But I have no corresponding attraction or fantasy about men. I have tried thinking about sex with a man and it just does not resonate. I do not have a negative feeling about it, just does not arouse me."
My take is that you're straight (and not at all homophobic), and that you probably weren't really flirting in a traditional sense. You simply enjoyed the attention and returned it and had fun doing so. My only advice there is to be careful not to lead someone on.
posted by 2oh1 at 1:25 PM on October 11, 2010
This is irrelevant as to whether you're straight or bi. It just means you're a good person. I'd think that if you only cared about discrimination of people just like you, you'd be a hypocrite. Yay for not being a hypocrite :)
"Recently a guy I did not know flirted with me and I found myself flirting back, and it was natural, I mean it just felt right, though it was unexpected I was comfortable with it. Then I flirted with another guy I did not know and it was likewise cool. But I have no corresponding attraction or fantasy about men. I have tried thinking about sex with a man and it just does not resonate. I do not have a negative feeling about it, just does not arouse me."
My take is that you're straight (and not at all homophobic), and that you probably weren't really flirting in a traditional sense. You simply enjoyed the attention and returned it and had fun doing so. My only advice there is to be careful not to lead someone on.
posted by 2oh1 at 1:25 PM on October 11, 2010
Hey, it's OK, dude.
All day long, I work in public for gay marriage, which means that a lot of gay dudes assume that I am also gay. And a lot of them flirt with me, and some of them hit on me. I also have a lot of ladies flirt with me everyday and some of them hit on me. You know what? I flirt back (though I don't hit on them, because I've got a girlfriend). It's fun, and a lot of dudes are good flirts, and it's really not a big deal.
I dunno, I feel like there's this weird stigma for straight guys to even recognize that another guy can be attractive or flirtatious, and that the "Am I gay?" seems to me to be coming from that, though I do want to be explicit in saying that guessing someone else's conflicted feelings across the internet based on limited information is like swinging at a baseball blindfolded in terms of likely success rate.
posted by klangklangston at 6:52 PM on October 11, 2010
All day long, I work in public for gay marriage, which means that a lot of gay dudes assume that I am also gay. And a lot of them flirt with me, and some of them hit on me. I also have a lot of ladies flirt with me everyday and some of them hit on me. You know what? I flirt back (though I don't hit on them, because I've got a girlfriend). It's fun, and a lot of dudes are good flirts, and it's really not a big deal.
I dunno, I feel like there's this weird stigma for straight guys to even recognize that another guy can be attractive or flirtatious, and that the "Am I gay?" seems to me to be coming from that, though I do want to be explicit in saying that guessing someone else's conflicted feelings across the internet based on limited information is like swinging at a baseball blindfolded in terms of likely success rate.
posted by klangklangston at 6:52 PM on October 11, 2010
if you are flirting with guys that are with no intention of doing anything with them, you are leading them on. It is dishonest.
Woah, just wanted to totally disagree with this. Flirting is a fun form of social discourse that can be an activity in and of itself. People who think that it has to precipitate sex are called 'date rapists'.
posted by threeants at 7:24 PM on October 11, 2010
Woah, just wanted to totally disagree with this. Flirting is a fun form of social discourse that can be an activity in and of itself. People who think that it has to precipitate sex are called 'date rapists'.
posted by threeants at 7:24 PM on October 11, 2010
You're just operating on a more open-minded wavelength than a lot of guys. Bonus, like-minded flirtatious girls will likely find this open-mindedness hot. (Not that you should fake tarting it up with boys just to get girls hot. I don't approve of this any more than the "girly-kissing just to make the boys salivate" stunt.)
Look, if you're curious and you happen to be friends with the sort of queer dude who will smilingly offer to kiss you just to see if you like it, hey, give it a whirl. What, doesn't everyone do this?
But really, whatever level of attraction puts a spring in your step is totally okay.
posted by desuetude at 7:58 PM on October 11, 2010
Look, if you're curious and you happen to be friends with the sort of queer dude who will smilingly offer to kiss you just to see if you like it, hey, give it a whirl. What, doesn't everyone do this?
But really, whatever level of attraction puts a spring in your step is totally okay.
posted by desuetude at 7:58 PM on October 11, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by TheBones at 8:42 PM on October 10, 2010 [5 favorites]