Is there, like, something really wrong with me?
October 10, 2010 12:47 PM Subscribe
How can I stop feeling like an ugly Asian freak?
When I think about this rationally, it's stupid. I know I'm cute, witty, funny, and charming. Alas, I am living in the Netherlands where most of the girls look like they walked off the pages of Vogue. Okay, the same sentiment applies anywhere in Europe and in all facets of Western culture. When it comes down to it, I feel that it has something to do with my being Asian. People think it's okay to yell "arigato" at me when I walk into bars or to pull their eyes back and giggle at me. I live in a culture where it's okay to call me Ting Tong or China Girl. The only people who hit on me are drunk or preface their advances with "Where are you from? Do you speak Chinese? [It's more offensive because I'm not even Chinese OR Japanese.]"
I look at those stupid lists of Hollywood's Most Beautiful People and there is nary an Asian woman in sight. I look at the girls my guy friends want to bone and they are all girls with prominent Western features. I look at pictures of myself and the best ones are the ones where I look ethnically ambiguous.
I know it's shallow. I have cultivated my own hobbies! I'm culturally aware and I am well-read and I speak four languages! But you know what? I want people to like my outsides as much as they do my insides but that's never going to happen unless I hang out with guys who are really, really into anime.
How do I come to terms with the fact that, to so many people, I am not attractive? Or better yet, how do I un-brainwash myself after a lifetime of white = good, Asian = bad?
(If it's relevant, I'm 19 years old, born in Manila and raised in the States.)
When I think about this rationally, it's stupid. I know I'm cute, witty, funny, and charming. Alas, I am living in the Netherlands where most of the girls look like they walked off the pages of Vogue. Okay, the same sentiment applies anywhere in Europe and in all facets of Western culture. When it comes down to it, I feel that it has something to do with my being Asian. People think it's okay to yell "arigato" at me when I walk into bars or to pull their eyes back and giggle at me. I live in a culture where it's okay to call me Ting Tong or China Girl. The only people who hit on me are drunk or preface their advances with "Where are you from? Do you speak Chinese? [It's more offensive because I'm not even Chinese OR Japanese.]"
I look at those stupid lists of Hollywood's Most Beautiful People and there is nary an Asian woman in sight. I look at the girls my guy friends want to bone and they are all girls with prominent Western features. I look at pictures of myself and the best ones are the ones where I look ethnically ambiguous.
I know it's shallow. I have cultivated my own hobbies! I'm culturally aware and I am well-read and I speak four languages! But you know what? I want people to like my outsides as much as they do my insides but that's never going to happen unless I hang out with guys who are really, really into anime.
How do I come to terms with the fact that, to so many people, I am not attractive? Or better yet, how do I un-brainwash myself after a lifetime of white = good, Asian = bad?
(If it's relevant, I'm 19 years old, born in Manila and raised in the States.)
Well, I can't speak for the Netherlands, but here—USA, NYC to be exact—a lot of men (and women, for that matter) of all stripes are attracted to asian people. And more generally, people date out of their ethnicity, quite a bit. Beauty comes in many forms. I can't imagine only being attracted to one "type."
Perhaps the men you're talking about are more used to approaching white women, and are too nervous to start flirting with you? If it's a culture where you are looked at as "different", maybe they're assuming you truly are different, and it scares them off?
I'm not excusing that behavior/viewpoint at all. I think it's really stupid and xenophobic, but it may be worth considering that the problem is with them, not you.
posted by defenestration at 1:00 PM on October 10, 2010
Perhaps the men you're talking about are more used to approaching white women, and are too nervous to start flirting with you? If it's a culture where you are looked at as "different", maybe they're assuming you truly are different, and it scares them off?
I'm not excusing that behavior/viewpoint at all. I think it's really stupid and xenophobic, but it may be worth considering that the problem is with them, not you.
posted by defenestration at 1:00 PM on October 10, 2010
I have no experience at all with the horrible racism that you've had to deal with - I hope someone with experience can address that.
But one if your comments, the one about Hollywood's most beautiful women, I can relate to.
The only thing that helped me was forcing myself to consider: if someone calls me a one-legged duck, I don't stop and count my feet. But if they call me fat, ugly, stupid, dorky or boring, well! I sit with it all day. It made me question why I would dismiss one insult and not another.
posted by katiecat at 1:02 PM on October 10, 2010 [15 favorites]
But one if your comments, the one about Hollywood's most beautiful women, I can relate to.
The only thing that helped me was forcing myself to consider: if someone calls me a one-legged duck, I don't stop and count my feet. But if they call me fat, ugly, stupid, dorky or boring, well! I sit with it all day. It made me question why I would dismiss one insult and not another.
posted by katiecat at 1:02 PM on October 10, 2010 [15 favorites]
Oh, and don't forget Michele Yeoh and Ziyi Zhang. Maybe not as famous as Angelina Jolie, but not unknown, to be sure. Not trying to encourage your unhealthy obsession, but letting you know that there are beautiful asians in Hollywood, and you should be happy with who you are.
posted by bolognius maximus at 1:04 PM on October 10, 2010
posted by bolognius maximus at 1:04 PM on October 10, 2010
Wow, this is kind of shocking for me to read, because most men I know think most Asian women are gorgeous. Actually, most women I know think so, too. So maybe it's your lack of self confidence that's making it hard for you to meet someone, rather than your looks?
(But yeah, the behavior of some of those offensive people is definitely not acceptable!)
posted by MexicanYenta at 1:04 PM on October 10, 2010 [3 favorites]
(But yeah, the behavior of some of those offensive people is definitely not acceptable!)
posted by MexicanYenta at 1:04 PM on October 10, 2010 [3 favorites]
To so many people you are not attractive. But there are just as many people (more so I would bet) to who you will be super attractive. Attraction is a personal opinion, so there will be people out there who are hard-wired (genetically) so as not to find you attractive, and there will be people who will be hard-wired to find you very attractive. However, if you are in a culture and situation where people find you unattractive due to some generalization, then that is their problem and issue, don't make it yours.
Sidenote: I'm kind of shocked people call you Ting Tong or China Girl. Do they do this to your face or behind your back?
posted by gadha at 1:04 PM on October 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
Sidenote: I'm kind of shocked people call you Ting Tong or China Girl. Do they do this to your face or behind your back?
posted by gadha at 1:04 PM on October 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
I feel that it has something to do with my being Asian. People think it's okay to yell "arigato" at me when I walk into bars or to pull their eyes back and giggle at me. I live in a culture where it's okay to call me Ting Tong or China Girl.
Good lord. No, it has everything to do with them being total assholes. That is utterly unacceptable, and while I don't recommend punching them in the face, I wish I could.
Is this kind of overt racism really that prevalent in the Netherlands? Also, quit reading Vogue - it promotes unnatural stereotypes, no matter your race.
posted by Devils Rancher at 1:05 PM on October 10, 2010 [13 favorites]
Good lord. No, it has everything to do with them being total assholes. That is utterly unacceptable, and while I don't recommend punching them in the face, I wish I could.
Is this kind of overt racism really that prevalent in the Netherlands? Also, quit reading Vogue - it promotes unnatural stereotypes, no matter your race.
posted by Devils Rancher at 1:05 PM on October 10, 2010 [13 favorites]
There's lots of pretty Asians out there. Check out Asian Models Blog.
Stop caring (or try to care less) about what others think. Someday, move someplace more open-minded.
posted by Xere at 1:10 PM on October 10, 2010
Stop caring (or try to care less) about what others think. Someday, move someplace more open-minded.
posted by Xere at 1:10 PM on October 10, 2010
Have you considered temporarily-to-permanently moving somewhere more cosmopolitan? Because it sounds like your main problem is that you are surrounded like bozos and lack the perspective to rise above their bozodom, and if you speak four languages you must have other options in re where to live.
posted by No-sword at 1:11 PM on October 10, 2010 [4 favorites]
posted by No-sword at 1:11 PM on October 10, 2010 [4 favorites]
I'm surprised by this. In America, the stereotype is that many men lust after Asian women above all others. They even have a slang name for it: Yellow fever. Young Asian women usually seem so graceful to me and often me feel inelegant and clumsy. Then again, I obviously live in a different world because I haven't seen or heard of anyone doing the pull-the-eye-back thing in 25 years.
posted by CunningLinguist at 1:12 PM on October 10, 2010
posted by CunningLinguist at 1:12 PM on October 10, 2010
Gadha: yeah, that kind of behaviour regularly happens iin my part of Europe as well. And yeah, to your face.
OP, this may not help you right now but I've been there, I know exactly what you're talking about and believe me, it gets a lot better.
Asian women have a lot of admirers but while we still look young, for some reason only the creeps and immature assholes adress us. But maybe decent men are generally quieter and harder to notice than assholes who amplify their egos by treating "submissive" Asian women like streetware.
So, believe me, you have a kind of beauty that is noticed and admired. It will take longer for the guys who are into you to speak up. But the upside is, if you are like the Asian women I know. you will remain beautiful and young looking for much longer.
posted by Omnomnom at 1:15 PM on October 10, 2010 [2 favorites]
OP, this may not help you right now but I've been there, I know exactly what you're talking about and believe me, it gets a lot better.
Asian women have a lot of admirers but while we still look young, for some reason only the creeps and immature assholes adress us. But maybe decent men are generally quieter and harder to notice than assholes who amplify their egos by treating "submissive" Asian women like streetware.
So, believe me, you have a kind of beauty that is noticed and admired. It will take longer for the guys who are into you to speak up. But the upside is, if you are like the Asian women I know. you will remain beautiful and young looking for much longer.
posted by Omnomnom at 1:15 PM on October 10, 2010 [2 favorites]
However, get used to "where are you from?"
That part will never ever change. (Wow, what a brilliant ice breaker, right? *sigh*)
Clueless but mostly harmless.
posted by Omnomnom at 1:19 PM on October 10, 2010 [2 favorites]
That part will never ever change. (Wow, what a brilliant ice breaker, right? *sigh*)
Clueless but mostly harmless.
posted by Omnomnom at 1:19 PM on October 10, 2010 [2 favorites]
Whereabouts in Holland are you? No idea what your circumstances are but I'd get the hell out of whatever strange place you've ended up in. Not that you should have to do that but rather than suffering this for a prolonged period of time I'd go somewhere where you do not have to face this daily abuse. Or at least locate such a place and escape to it as much as possible until you can move permanently. That kind of treatment is enough to undermine anybody's self confidence and you have to make sure you get enough positive feedback from somewhere to balance the negative effects.
posted by koahiatamadl at 1:21 PM on October 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by koahiatamadl at 1:21 PM on October 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
Whoa. In the US it is definitely not socially acceptable pretty much anywhere to do things like yell "arigato" at Asian women, or pull your eyes back (that is seriously shocking that this happens where you live). In some circles, the stereotype is of white guys preferring Asian girls (could also apply to other ethnicities of men, but the stereotype generally applies white guys), or Asian girls being seen as special and exotic. This has its own problems to be sure, but just know that it's not universal that Western men find Asian women less desirable than Western-looking ones.
Honestly, as a petite white girl in the US, I often feel like I have to "compete" with the cute Asian girls among guys who prefer smaller ladies. Like I'm a bland, mousy white chick compared to these girls with their pretty, non-frizzy black hair and nice, non-blotchy skin, haha. I think there's definitely a grass-is-greener component to assessing one's own attractiveness. But it also sounds like you live in some hick zone where people are insensitive and ignorant. Maybe moving somewhere more enlightened will help somewhat, if that is an option for you.
posted by elpea at 1:22 PM on October 10, 2010
Honestly, as a petite white girl in the US, I often feel like I have to "compete" with the cute Asian girls among guys who prefer smaller ladies. Like I'm a bland, mousy white chick compared to these girls with their pretty, non-frizzy black hair and nice, non-blotchy skin, haha. I think there's definitely a grass-is-greener component to assessing one's own attractiveness. But it also sounds like you live in some hick zone where people are insensitive and ignorant. Maybe moving somewhere more enlightened will help somewhat, if that is an option for you.
posted by elpea at 1:22 PM on October 10, 2010
And the in your face stuff tells you right off the bat who won't make the cut, which the political correctness back in the US covers up until it subtly emerges in other, perhaps more damaging ways. Something to think about. Also, forget about your looks and focus on your personhood, that's value far more in EU as well. (as well as seconding what omnomnom is saying)
posted by The Lady is a designer at 1:23 PM on October 10, 2010
posted by The Lady is a designer at 1:23 PM on October 10, 2010
It's shocking how acceptable racism towards Asian people is today among people who, I get the sense, wouldn't otherwise make racist comments. I'm white; I studied abroad in France and encountered many of the same things that you describe. Utterly disgusting.
It's awful that you have to face that, and Western societies' beauty norms. I don't blame you at all for feeling insecure.
Maybe it will help to consider that lots of women feel like you do. I know I can relate. It's not just because you're Asian. If you were white, it'd be "are my boobs big enough? am I thin enough? is my nose small enough? my legs long enough? is my skin good? my ass good? My stomach flat? my hair good? do I smell bad? am I too hairy? are my teeth white?" One could go on forever, because no one looks like a supermodel. Not even supermodels do these days, they need to be photoshopped.
It's easy to say, "But I would be happy if I just looked like ( )." Only: would you, really? It's one of those things where the only winning move is not to play. It's about loving yourself - and not just on the inside. Look at yourself and forget the other shit. Every time you look in the mirror, find something that looks awesome that other people would totally be jealous of. It can be something small. Be this little girl.
posted by Solon and Thanks at 1:24 PM on October 10, 2010 [5 favorites]
It's awful that you have to face that, and Western societies' beauty norms. I don't blame you at all for feeling insecure.
Maybe it will help to consider that lots of women feel like you do. I know I can relate. It's not just because you're Asian. If you were white, it'd be "are my boobs big enough? am I thin enough? is my nose small enough? my legs long enough? is my skin good? my ass good? My stomach flat? my hair good? do I smell bad? am I too hairy? are my teeth white?" One could go on forever, because no one looks like a supermodel. Not even supermodels do these days, they need to be photoshopped.
It's easy to say, "But I would be happy if I just looked like ( )." Only: would you, really? It's one of those things where the only winning move is not to play. It's about loving yourself - and not just on the inside. Look at yourself and forget the other shit. Every time you look in the mirror, find something that looks awesome that other people would totally be jealous of. It can be something small. Be this little girl.
posted by Solon and Thanks at 1:24 PM on October 10, 2010 [5 favorites]
In my experience, the lack of attraction you're seeing is somewhat common among people who haven't lived among Asians and haven't had much contact with the culture. I'm white. I wasn't much attracted to Asian women before I lived there. After a few months, I found my preferences changing; after a few years, even more so, developing a strong preference. After moving back to Canada, and settling in Vancouver, I reached more of an equilibrium.
The racism you're facing is of course inexcusable, and I'm sorry you have to face it. On this, honestly, I think Canada and the US are just better places than Europe.
posted by smorange at 1:32 PM on October 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
The racism you're facing is of course inexcusable, and I'm sorry you have to face it. On this, honestly, I think Canada and the US are just better places than Europe.
posted by smorange at 1:32 PM on October 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
Man, those jackasses making those racist comments aren't worth your time or your thoughts.
And speaking four languages is totally hot.
posted by NoraReed at 1:35 PM on October 10, 2010 [5 favorites]
And speaking four languages is totally hot.
posted by NoraReed at 1:35 PM on October 10, 2010 [5 favorites]
I'm also stunned to read this. Asian women are gorgeous. I know the Western world has a preference for whites, but I think you have to really analyze what beauty is all about. I'm Indian, and once my arm was next to this white girl's arm, and the hue of my skin, golden brown, was just extremely attractive to me (I guess that's narcissistic but I don't want a blue or pink base to my skin--it would be nice to have a more glowy goldenness to my skin). We're very lucky not to have skin based in blue and pinks.
I can guarantee you, people from the Asian continent (Indians, Chinese, Japanese, etc) -- we age extremely well and that, honestly, counts for a lot.
When I lived in England, some drunk Eastern European guy yelled "Fucking Paki" at me (i'm not Pakistani but that isn't the point. The point was that he looked stupid.) Whatever. People at my well-meaning workplace are always talking/asking about this thing they did in India and where from India am I and all that stuff. It's just annoying. You just have to ignore it or ask them if the Dutch are as racist as they're stereotyped. That should make them think.
And honestly, look: you have to decide for yourself: objectively, do you think, after seeing a white blonde female celeb over and over again that she is still beautiful? I find myself thinking someone is really beautiful, and then overexposure makes me find their flaws and I get tired of seeing them.
Additionally, from experience, if you think someone is pretty and they turn out to be horrible people, then it's easy for them morph into ugly people in your eyes. Suddenly, they aren't pretty.
So beauty isn't actually something that you can't help but let others define for you. You have to be very critical yourself of what you think is beautiful and not worry so much what some person at People magazine thinks. What do they know? Even the people hiring models don't know because they hire gaunt and malnourished teens who literally look like skeletal ghosts to walk up and down runways.
posted by anniecat at 1:38 PM on October 10, 2010 [4 favorites]
I can guarantee you, people from the Asian continent (Indians, Chinese, Japanese, etc) -- we age extremely well and that, honestly, counts for a lot.
When I lived in England, some drunk Eastern European guy yelled "Fucking Paki" at me (i'm not Pakistani but that isn't the point. The point was that he looked stupid.) Whatever. People at my well-meaning workplace are always talking/asking about this thing they did in India and where from India am I and all that stuff. It's just annoying. You just have to ignore it or ask them if the Dutch are as racist as they're stereotyped. That should make them think.
And honestly, look: you have to decide for yourself: objectively, do you think, after seeing a white blonde female celeb over and over again that she is still beautiful? I find myself thinking someone is really beautiful, and then overexposure makes me find their flaws and I get tired of seeing them.
Additionally, from experience, if you think someone is pretty and they turn out to be horrible people, then it's easy for them morph into ugly people in your eyes. Suddenly, they aren't pretty.
So beauty isn't actually something that you can't help but let others define for you. You have to be very critical yourself of what you think is beautiful and not worry so much what some person at People magazine thinks. What do they know? Even the people hiring models don't know because they hire gaunt and malnourished teens who literally look like skeletal ghosts to walk up and down runways.
posted by anniecat at 1:38 PM on October 10, 2010 [4 favorites]
It's true that some people have a strong attraction to Asian women. But I don't know that it will make the OP feel any better by pointing that out. I'm significantly overweight, and finding out there are groups of people who fetishize fat women didn't make me feel better, it made me feel like an oddity, even more freakish. I thought that if someone DID like me it was only because of my fatness, not me. I'm not saying that being overweight and being Asian are the same thing, by any means.
OP, the people treating you this way are insensitive and ignorant. You can't change them, you can only change how you feel about you. And you know what? It doesn't matter if you are beautiful or ugly, if you have one arm or three arms, if your skin is the color of topaz or the color of snow.
I want to second The Lady is a designer, in suggesting you focus on your personhood. If you don't already, volunteer, help others, make a mark on the world around you! You'll be amazed how it can boost your self-esteem more than a mirror ever could.
posted by Syllables at 1:43 PM on October 10, 2010 [7 favorites]
OP, the people treating you this way are insensitive and ignorant. You can't change them, you can only change how you feel about you. And you know what? It doesn't matter if you are beautiful or ugly, if you have one arm or three arms, if your skin is the color of topaz or the color of snow.
I want to second The Lady is a designer, in suggesting you focus on your personhood. If you don't already, volunteer, help others, make a mark on the world around you! You'll be amazed how it can boost your self-esteem more than a mirror ever could.
posted by Syllables at 1:43 PM on October 10, 2010 [7 favorites]
I don't mean to sound defeatist, but the most dramatic improvement you can make to your situation is to get out of it ASAP. Europe is still very much in "Oriental" mode when it comes to Southeast Asians.
Short of leaving, you could make each eye-pull a teaching opportunity, provided it's safe to do so. It might be extra annoying for you, but maybe it'll make things a little bit easier for the next Asian unlucky enough to wind up in your situation.
posted by Sys Rq at 1:50 PM on October 10, 2010
Short of leaving, you could make each eye-pull a teaching opportunity, provided it's safe to do so. It might be extra annoying for you, but maybe it'll make things a little bit easier for the next Asian unlucky enough to wind up in your situation.
posted by Sys Rq at 1:50 PM on October 10, 2010
Where you are geographically and age wise (you're 19 and that is young) seems to tell me that you are looking for a place to fit into. Something where you concretely say "I am liked".
You're question is worded as
"I'm culturally aware and I am well-read and I speak four languages! But you know what? I want people to like my outsides as much as they do my insides...."
That can be hugely impacted by 1) your perceived impressions of attraction and good looks (which are influenced by your believing as white=good, Asian=bad) and
2) Your geographic location and the kind of people the folks that are around you go in for.
I have culturally diverse friends who are currently pursuing their education in different states all over the usa and all of them face hardships of getting liked by locals because they look different and the places that they are in are used to seeing blonds as an example.
-----------------
How do I come to terms with the fact that, to so many people, I am not attractive?
There are several people who wouldn't look at me twice. There are several people I wouldn't look at twice. Does that mean they aren't attractive or that I am not?
Beauty isn't all of it. I don't like women or men a lot who can't speak about things other than themselves.
----------------
Or better yet, how do I un-brainwash myself after a lifetime of white = good, Asian = bad?
That takes time and you are in the quest. It was a "lifetime" so far, 19 years! 14 conscious ones, perhaps? How about giving it 5-7 more conscious years since you have started to better understand your strengths and how the world is not black or white.
----------------
Finally, regarding those Vogue models you speak of
Try this video
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posted by iNfo.Pump at 2:07 PM on October 10, 2010
You're question is worded as
"I'm culturally aware and I am well-read and I speak four languages! But you know what? I want people to like my outsides as much as they do my insides...."
That can be hugely impacted by 1) your perceived impressions of attraction and good looks (which are influenced by your believing as white=good, Asian=bad) and
2) Your geographic location and the kind of people the folks that are around you go in for.
I have culturally diverse friends who are currently pursuing their education in different states all over the usa and all of them face hardships of getting liked by locals because they look different and the places that they are in are used to seeing blonds as an example.
-----------------
How do I come to terms with the fact that, to so many people, I am not attractive?
There are several people who wouldn't look at me twice. There are several people I wouldn't look at twice. Does that mean they aren't attractive or that I am not?
Beauty isn't all of it. I don't like women or men a lot who can't speak about things other than themselves.
----------------
Or better yet, how do I un-brainwash myself after a lifetime of white = good, Asian = bad?
That takes time and you are in the quest. It was a "lifetime" so far, 19 years! 14 conscious ones, perhaps? How about giving it 5-7 more conscious years since you have started to better understand your strengths and how the world is not black or white.
----------------
Finally, regarding those Vogue models you speak of
Try this video
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
posted by iNfo.Pump at 2:07 PM on October 10, 2010
First of all, quit reading Vogue and "stupid lists of Hollywood's Most Beautiful People." They're causing you pain.
Plus, the Netherlands? Call them Quislings, then explain it's as accurate as what they're doing or saying.
posted by rhizome at 2:08 PM on October 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
Plus, the Netherlands? Call them Quislings, then explain it's as accurate as what they're doing or saying.
posted by rhizome at 2:08 PM on October 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
Everyone else has offered excellent advice. I will add this: I'm white, I grew up in an Asian suburb and - even though I didn't encounter racism like you have - I always felt pale, awkward, and ugly next to my peers.
It's easy to think you're ugly or "weird" if you look different from the people around you. But weirdness is all relative. And there is a hell of a lot more to beauty than the crap that Vogue tries to sell you.
posted by vanitas at 2:28 PM on October 10, 2010 [2 favorites]
It's easy to think you're ugly or "weird" if you look different from the people around you. But weirdness is all relative. And there is a hell of a lot more to beauty than the crap that Vogue tries to sell you.
posted by vanitas at 2:28 PM on October 10, 2010 [2 favorites]
Take yourself away from the media nonsense of what is beautiful and what is not beautiful. I find that every time I read a lady magazine, even if it's just to get ideas about what jeans are going to be in style this year, I come away feeling ugly, lacking. While I can't relate to the problem of casual racism in Europe, I can relate to that.
As an alternative, if you turn to those kinds of media for fashion inspiration or to keep up with what young people today are interested in, why not check out style blogs, instead?
There are a lot of personal fashion blogs which are run by non-white women, or fat women, or women who are otherwise outside the mainstream in terms of "conventional attractiveness". I also like some of the street style blogs - even the ones based in Europe tend to feature a lot of people who are not racially European. I'm always amazed, for instance, by how many Turkish and Middle Eastern looking people end up on the Stockholm Street Style blog.
posted by Sara C. at 2:35 PM on October 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
As an alternative, if you turn to those kinds of media for fashion inspiration or to keep up with what young people today are interested in, why not check out style blogs, instead?
There are a lot of personal fashion blogs which are run by non-white women, or fat women, or women who are otherwise outside the mainstream in terms of "conventional attractiveness". I also like some of the street style blogs - even the ones based in Europe tend to feature a lot of people who are not racially European. I'm always amazed, for instance, by how many Turkish and Middle Eastern looking people end up on the Stockholm Street Style blog.
posted by Sara C. at 2:35 PM on October 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
If you can, get the heck out of the Netherlands.
Disclaimer: I shouldn't bad-mouth a culture that supported me for 14 years of my life, that houses and educates my kids, and that I in fact like quite a lot. But it cannot be denied that many Dutch people in and off the street find it totally okay to be rude to other people, just for the kicks.
Seen that context I feel it's possibly not even about your being Asian, it's about that people find something to say that they think is funny because they know it's hurtful - could be about anything.
- At a birthday party, where my friend had invited a gay couple among others, other guests began (and did not stop) making loud hetero-type "fun" remarks about gay people and they totally got away with it.
- At the time when my German accent still hadn't quite subsided, people too young to have a WWII history would shout "Achtung" and worse behind my back.
- For a period I had to carry a musical instrument in and around the Amsterdam metro, in a huge black box on wheels, and people would ask me all sorts of stuff along the lines of if I'd taken my late grandma for a walk, or if I was transporting a baby's coffin.
- When I put a tram ticket on the driver's little table to get a stamp (at the time the normal procedure) I hadn't even managed to open my mouth before he said "if you cant talk, walk over to the stamp-machine" (the alternative normal procedure).
- Some of the girls in the dorm in the Hague stopped going to the beach (which was 5 minutes away) because they would get bombarded by comments from total strangers about their bums, boobs and pimples, no matter what.
Anyway, read my disclaimer again, please, I mean it. But hell, there's no day in a Dutch city that you don't hear something aimed at you that is totally gratuitous and hurtful. Not a healthy climate to find your own identity as a young Asian-gone-global.
posted by Namlit at 2:37 PM on October 10, 2010 [11 favorites]
Disclaimer: I shouldn't bad-mouth a culture that supported me for 14 years of my life, that houses and educates my kids, and that I in fact like quite a lot. But it cannot be denied that many Dutch people in and off the street find it totally okay to be rude to other people, just for the kicks.
Seen that context I feel it's possibly not even about your being Asian, it's about that people find something to say that they think is funny because they know it's hurtful - could be about anything.
- At a birthday party, where my friend had invited a gay couple among others, other guests began (and did not stop) making loud hetero-type "fun" remarks about gay people and they totally got away with it.
- At the time when my German accent still hadn't quite subsided, people too young to have a WWII history would shout "Achtung" and worse behind my back.
- For a period I had to carry a musical instrument in and around the Amsterdam metro, in a huge black box on wheels, and people would ask me all sorts of stuff along the lines of if I'd taken my late grandma for a walk, or if I was transporting a baby's coffin.
- When I put a tram ticket on the driver's little table to get a stamp (at the time the normal procedure) I hadn't even managed to open my mouth before he said "if you cant talk, walk over to the stamp-machine" (the alternative normal procedure).
- Some of the girls in the dorm in the Hague stopped going to the beach (which was 5 minutes away) because they would get bombarded by comments from total strangers about their bums, boobs and pimples, no matter what.
Anyway, read my disclaimer again, please, I mean it. But hell, there's no day in a Dutch city that you don't hear something aimed at you that is totally gratuitous and hurtful. Not a healthy climate to find your own identity as a young Asian-gone-global.
posted by Namlit at 2:37 PM on October 10, 2010 [11 favorites]
Geez, is it 1962 over there or something?
Like others here, I strongly suggest you stop looking at fashion/celebrity mags. Perpetual insecurity and fashion magazines go hand in hand. Absolutely stop looking at them for at least 100 days. You will be amazed how more beautiful, prettier, and healthier you feel. I'm not even kidding.
How do I come to terms with the fact that, to so many people, I am not attractive?
Meh. You're among stupid backwards people. They provide a good lesson to the rest of us: don't be stupid and backwards. You're trying to gain acceptance among people who will only teach you bad manners and make you a worse person. Is this really what you want? Find better, smarter people, and let their goodness rub off on you.
Or better yet, how do I un-brainwash myself after a lifetime of white = good, Asian = bad?
Stop looking at generic fashion mags. Look at more interesting sources of media. Make use of your quad-lingualism, and travel the hell out of there. Is everybody down on the Asians where you live? If so, wow, that place sucks and I'd say save up and move your educated self somewhere else.
posted by The ____ of Justice at 2:58 PM on October 10, 2010
Like others here, I strongly suggest you stop looking at fashion/celebrity mags. Perpetual insecurity and fashion magazines go hand in hand. Absolutely stop looking at them for at least 100 days. You will be amazed how more beautiful, prettier, and healthier you feel. I'm not even kidding.
How do I come to terms with the fact that, to so many people, I am not attractive?
Meh. You're among stupid backwards people. They provide a good lesson to the rest of us: don't be stupid and backwards. You're trying to gain acceptance among people who will only teach you bad manners and make you a worse person. Is this really what you want? Find better, smarter people, and let their goodness rub off on you.
Or better yet, how do I un-brainwash myself after a lifetime of white = good, Asian = bad?
Stop looking at generic fashion mags. Look at more interesting sources of media. Make use of your quad-lingualism, and travel the hell out of there. Is everybody down on the Asians where you live? If so, wow, that place sucks and I'd say save up and move your educated self somewhere else.
posted by The ____ of Justice at 2:58 PM on October 10, 2010
For goodness sake, don't ever take Dutch humor personally or seriously! It's all about being offensive.
posted by Theloupgarou at 3:56 PM on October 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Theloupgarou at 3:56 PM on October 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
This post really strikes a chord with me. I'm also an Asian American female, although I'm from the U.S. But I remember walking the souks of Morocco and having totally random strangers yell "arigato" and "chinois" at me, not even believing I could be American because I appeared ethnically Chinese. For the first couple days, I was so mad and angry, because I was used to the gentle, politically correct, atmosphere of my American college, where that kind of language provoked immediate outrage (like it has on this board). But then I just got tired of it and chalked it up to ignorance, realizing my anger wasn't going to change anything. Anyway. Your problems are clearly a lot worse, and I can't advise you to do anything other than ignore those people who yell racial slurs at you. Just think - they're either dumb, or ignorant, or both, and engaging with them won't change anything.
First off - all those people who are saying, look at actress/singer/model XYZ - she's Asian AND hot? Please. That's not reassuring at all. Most of these women also happen to be among the most "white"-looking Asians there are. Why do you think there are so many double-eyelid plastic surgeries in Asian? Personally, as an Asian female who is NOT petite and who does NOT weigh under 100 pounds and who does NOT have large eyes or glossy black hair, I've also struggled with not looking like your "typical" attractive Asian girl.
I know it's hard, and it's a problem that I haven't completely solved myself yet, but I think the best solution is throwing this Western, media-driven standard of beauty out the window as best you can. It's certainly not a problem unique to Asian women (I suspect many Asian males have many of the same problems you do). It affects everyone, from black women, to short males, to those with body sizes of all types. I know it's easy to just tell someone to stop caring what other people think, but it's really hard, and honestly, what I end up having to do is cultivate an attitude of... well... superiority. You're clearly a cultured, intelligent individual who is aware of and cares about these issues, but guess what - many people aren't. Or they're ignorant of the problem itself. You - are - better - than them.
Also, if you're really interested in being an environment where you're not typecast and the focus is on what you can do, maybe try going to fewer bars and clubs, if that's where you're trying to meet people. You say you have interests and hobbies - try to find groups where you can cultivate that in an atmosphere that's about you as an individual, and what you can do and bring to the table.
TLDR: Don't worry about whether people think you're hot, find people who know you're interesting.
posted by leedly at 4:27 PM on October 10, 2010 [21 favorites]
First off - all those people who are saying, look at actress/singer/model XYZ - she's Asian AND hot? Please. That's not reassuring at all. Most of these women also happen to be among the most "white"-looking Asians there are. Why do you think there are so many double-eyelid plastic surgeries in Asian? Personally, as an Asian female who is NOT petite and who does NOT weigh under 100 pounds and who does NOT have large eyes or glossy black hair, I've also struggled with not looking like your "typical" attractive Asian girl.
I know it's hard, and it's a problem that I haven't completely solved myself yet, but I think the best solution is throwing this Western, media-driven standard of beauty out the window as best you can. It's certainly not a problem unique to Asian women (I suspect many Asian males have many of the same problems you do). It affects everyone, from black women, to short males, to those with body sizes of all types. I know it's easy to just tell someone to stop caring what other people think, but it's really hard, and honestly, what I end up having to do is cultivate an attitude of... well... superiority. You're clearly a cultured, intelligent individual who is aware of and cares about these issues, but guess what - many people aren't. Or they're ignorant of the problem itself. You - are - better - than them.
Also, if you're really interested in being an environment where you're not typecast and the focus is on what you can do, maybe try going to fewer bars and clubs, if that's where you're trying to meet people. You say you have interests and hobbies - try to find groups where you can cultivate that in an atmosphere that's about you as an individual, and what you can do and bring to the table.
TLDR: Don't worry about whether people think you're hot, find people who know you're interesting.
posted by leedly at 4:27 PM on October 10, 2010 [21 favorites]
Here is a past thread where a male poster asked a somewhat similar question. I wrote a long answer in that thread that I hope will have some relevance to you.
posted by pseudostrabismus at 4:38 PM on October 10, 2010
posted by pseudostrabismus at 4:38 PM on October 10, 2010
I'm being presumptuous re: your gender, but my kneejerk reaction to this because I've totally been down this road was "Girl, I know! But you get over it." Probably not helpful, but was the simple truth of it for me. I grew up thinking I was supposed to aspire to be some J. Crew WASP-y lithe blonde chick dressed like she was going out horsebackriding and crap, when I'm super short but not skinny to match, more sturdy/muscular/stocky (I'm Korean) and very tomboyish by nature and style. It took years to get over it, mainly re: make-up (trying to wear eyeshadow the way most people do when you don't have the same eye shape or lids), clothing structure (things don't drape the same when your waist is all blink-and-you'll-miss-it brief, and your midsection while wider all-around at the bust does not involve anything boob-wise beyond-A cups), colors (I have naturally dark golden skin and dark hair and eyes, an unusual combo for Western fashion, it seems), but more than anything due to YES, my "romantic" interactions, which I'm convinced were not super typical and yes, due to being Asian (I used to get so frustrated I wanted to tear my hair out that I was once 24 and had never, ever been hit on by anyone who didn't preface it with creepsville basic "I am hitting on you because you are Asian and clearly I have issues with eroticizing/exoticizing specifically that" crap. That part was indeed the worst. Again, oh girl, I hear you. I'd get crushes on men and then remind myself I probably didn't even register to them as a possible candidate for a date because of my Asianness. It gets old real fast, doesn't it?
I don't have a good answer except to say that you get to a point where even if prior to it you've been telling yourself BUT not genuinely taking stock in the sentiment "well, the kind of person who doesn't even consider me normally because of my race isn't the kind of person I want to be with anyway," you will. That was just an organic process, and hard as it is for me to admit this for me anyway it was just part of growing up/waiting, meeting more and more people until eventually you stumble on some who can consider you without being weirdly fixated. I know firsthand a guy who in his youth was fratty and kind of a jerk about it--saying dismissively he found Asian girls unattractive across the board--and then later wound up dating and married to a Japanese woman. Maybe young people take time to move on to what they really like beyond what the stupid media narrowmindedly shovels them; only life experience broadens their horizons and gives them the confidence to like something beyond what they think they should like.
The other thing is, and I've mentioned this over at the Mefi FL group once, I got told a lot when I was annoyed by this "only creepy racist jerks ever notice me" phenomenon that it's because "the kind of guy who'd be into you is not the kind of guy who would ever make the first move." That sentiment is problematic in itself, but I do sort of know what people were getting at when they said it. Stereotype time: if you are Asian and bookish or nerdy or cute-not-sultry or whatever, probably people who see you and would crush on you are going to be shy or nerdy dudes, afraid of offending you or just plain afraid of talking to girls period. I realized me making the first move didn't mean I wasn't desirable, but it did mean the kind of guy I wanted who'd want me back is probably just going to make me do all the upfront work. That kind of sucks sometimes to think about, but it's been worth it; once I thought through why that might be and how it had nothing to do with my physical attractiveness really, I didn't get so sad or reluctant to make the first move anyway. And for whatever little it's worth, the man I'm married to now I had to make the first move with, but now? He treats me like I'm the only woman he sees, writes private odes about how much he digs my body, etc., etc. He was just shy that's all, but that didn't mean he wasn't thinking all kinds of awed and happy things when he looked at me. So I guess in short...don't be afraid of making the first move. Yeah, it kind of blows, but it's worth it. Like people say to anyone more physically off the beaten path or whatnot: you sort of have a built-in jerk detector, which is handy. You're kind of actually saving wasted time and effort; superficial or narrowminded jerks won't lead you on, or something.
posted by ifjuly at 4:46 PM on October 10, 2010 [8 favorites]
I don't have a good answer except to say that you get to a point where even if prior to it you've been telling yourself BUT not genuinely taking stock in the sentiment "well, the kind of person who doesn't even consider me normally because of my race isn't the kind of person I want to be with anyway," you will. That was just an organic process, and hard as it is for me to admit this for me anyway it was just part of growing up/waiting, meeting more and more people until eventually you stumble on some who can consider you without being weirdly fixated. I know firsthand a guy who in his youth was fratty and kind of a jerk about it--saying dismissively he found Asian girls unattractive across the board--and then later wound up dating and married to a Japanese woman. Maybe young people take time to move on to what they really like beyond what the stupid media narrowmindedly shovels them; only life experience broadens their horizons and gives them the confidence to like something beyond what they think they should like.
The other thing is, and I've mentioned this over at the Mefi FL group once, I got told a lot when I was annoyed by this "only creepy racist jerks ever notice me" phenomenon that it's because "the kind of guy who'd be into you is not the kind of guy who would ever make the first move." That sentiment is problematic in itself, but I do sort of know what people were getting at when they said it. Stereotype time: if you are Asian and bookish or nerdy or cute-not-sultry or whatever, probably people who see you and would crush on you are going to be shy or nerdy dudes, afraid of offending you or just plain afraid of talking to girls period. I realized me making the first move didn't mean I wasn't desirable, but it did mean the kind of guy I wanted who'd want me back is probably just going to make me do all the upfront work. That kind of sucks sometimes to think about, but it's been worth it; once I thought through why that might be and how it had nothing to do with my physical attractiveness really, I didn't get so sad or reluctant to make the first move anyway. And for whatever little it's worth, the man I'm married to now I had to make the first move with, but now? He treats me like I'm the only woman he sees, writes private odes about how much he digs my body, etc., etc. He was just shy that's all, but that didn't mean he wasn't thinking all kinds of awed and happy things when he looked at me. So I guess in short...don't be afraid of making the first move. Yeah, it kind of blows, but it's worth it. Like people say to anyone more physically off the beaten path or whatnot: you sort of have a built-in jerk detector, which is handy. You're kind of actually saving wasted time and effort; superficial or narrowminded jerks won't lead you on, or something.
posted by ifjuly at 4:46 PM on October 10, 2010 [8 favorites]
This breaks my heart a little reading this because I grew up with those stupid 'flied lice' and 'my dog's missing! Did she eat it?' jokes, and it really fucking sucks that this same shit is still going on.
Is the racism going to go away? I don't know. I don't know the area you're living in, I don't know how the people there react and I don't know your situation. But try not to let them get you down, and I say that knowing damn well it's really hard not to. Think of it this way: people who call you 'china girl' and make that godawful 'slit-eye' gesture towards you feel pleasure, consciously or otherwise, in making you feel uncomfortable and like an outsider. They're doing that to solidify it. If this is happening to you in restaurants and bars, leave. Any paying customer doesn't have to put up with that behaviour. If it's people you know making these jokes and if you feel comfortable doing so, tell them that you don't think it's funny, and that you aren't making jokes about blonde hair or national stereotypes. Why are they doing it? What's so funny about it? You might get some 'but I'm joking! Don't be so serious' replies, but even if it's a cultural thing to make 'offensive' comments, maybe speaking up will make them think twice.
Is it time-consuming? Yes. Is it really, really irritating to be the one to lay down some Racism 101? YES. On the other hand, if this person is worth your time to you, there's probably no one else they could learn from. If they're not willing to listen or change, they're no longer worth your time. Write them off.
I don't know what I can say to help you 'unbrainwash' yourself. Even in Asian culture, there's a huge movement towards blepharoplasty to 'correct' Asian eyes because of the monolid, skin-lightening creams (which also has ties into class structure, but whatev) or surgery to make noses 'taller'. It's so trite, but you have to learn to accept who you are. Try asking yourself who's telling you that (blonde hair, white skin, insert as applicable) is prettier than (brown hair, darker skin, etc)? Why are they saying that? Are they trying to sell you something? Break down why Vogue or Hollywood's saying 'this' is good and 'that' is bad - and seriously, stop reading that stuff. Back away from celebrity-related stuff in general - I don't care if you're white or brown or black or yellow, it's going to make everyone who ISN'T an A-list star feel like crap. And it probably makes the A-listers feel like crap a few times a year, too. If you want a bit of a critical look at pop culture, Racialicious is pretty good at analysing race and pop culture and Angry Asian Man also has some interesting commentary on race and current affairs.
You speak four languages. FOUR. Four different linguistically unique tongues, each with their own grammar, vocabularies and slang. That's awesome. You sound smart, put-together, and articulate. Try to search out some clubs at a local university with roots in what you're interested in - bars tend to be full of drunken idiots. Maybe try and find some expat areas, too - you'd might get some good friendly restaurant recommendations from those also from out-of-country.
There's going to be guys who love your outsides and insides - maybe they're not around right now. There's nothing you can really do about that, unless you're willing to change yourself to suit someone elses' tastes, and it sounds like that's not something you're willing to do (nor should you). Guys who like you for YOU are out there, I promise. They're just lost in the crowd of idiots out there.
And this isn't shallow. You sound like you're hurting because it seems shallow and you don't know why it's bugging you so much. If you want, mefimail me and we can talk more - I can regale you with my hilariously awful attempts at using skin lighteners and losing weight. Hang in there.
(On an off-note: ...for the record, among those of Asian descent I know, people of non-Asian descent with 'yellow fever' aren't exactly a good thing. Those are people to be actively avoided, because generally speaking those people tend to fetishise Asians and Asian culture and it is unbelievably creepy with deep roots in Orientalism. Those are the people who hang out on mail-order bride websites and say things like 'Asian women are so much more submissive and sweet' and that's just... so deeply wrong. I think the OP already knows these people exist, and I don't think that's the attention she's looking for.)
posted by zennish at 4:53 PM on October 10, 2010 [5 favorites]
Is the racism going to go away? I don't know. I don't know the area you're living in, I don't know how the people there react and I don't know your situation. But try not to let them get you down, and I say that knowing damn well it's really hard not to. Think of it this way: people who call you 'china girl' and make that godawful 'slit-eye' gesture towards you feel pleasure, consciously or otherwise, in making you feel uncomfortable and like an outsider. They're doing that to solidify it. If this is happening to you in restaurants and bars, leave. Any paying customer doesn't have to put up with that behaviour. If it's people you know making these jokes and if you feel comfortable doing so, tell them that you don't think it's funny, and that you aren't making jokes about blonde hair or national stereotypes. Why are they doing it? What's so funny about it? You might get some 'but I'm joking! Don't be so serious' replies, but even if it's a cultural thing to make 'offensive' comments, maybe speaking up will make them think twice.
Is it time-consuming? Yes. Is it really, really irritating to be the one to lay down some Racism 101? YES. On the other hand, if this person is worth your time to you, there's probably no one else they could learn from. If they're not willing to listen or change, they're no longer worth your time. Write them off.
I don't know what I can say to help you 'unbrainwash' yourself. Even in Asian culture, there's a huge movement towards blepharoplasty to 'correct' Asian eyes because of the monolid, skin-lightening creams (which also has ties into class structure, but whatev) or surgery to make noses 'taller'. It's so trite, but you have to learn to accept who you are. Try asking yourself who's telling you that (blonde hair, white skin, insert as applicable) is prettier than (brown hair, darker skin, etc)? Why are they saying that? Are they trying to sell you something? Break down why Vogue or Hollywood's saying 'this' is good and 'that' is bad - and seriously, stop reading that stuff. Back away from celebrity-related stuff in general - I don't care if you're white or brown or black or yellow, it's going to make everyone who ISN'T an A-list star feel like crap. And it probably makes the A-listers feel like crap a few times a year, too. If you want a bit of a critical look at pop culture, Racialicious is pretty good at analysing race and pop culture and Angry Asian Man also has some interesting commentary on race and current affairs.
You speak four languages. FOUR. Four different linguistically unique tongues, each with their own grammar, vocabularies and slang. That's awesome. You sound smart, put-together, and articulate. Try to search out some clubs at a local university with roots in what you're interested in - bars tend to be full of drunken idiots. Maybe try and find some expat areas, too - you'd might get some good friendly restaurant recommendations from those also from out-of-country.
There's going to be guys who love your outsides and insides - maybe they're not around right now. There's nothing you can really do about that, unless you're willing to change yourself to suit someone elses' tastes, and it sounds like that's not something you're willing to do (nor should you). Guys who like you for YOU are out there, I promise. They're just lost in the crowd of idiots out there.
And this isn't shallow. You sound like you're hurting because it seems shallow and you don't know why it's bugging you so much. If you want, mefimail me and we can talk more - I can regale you with my hilariously awful attempts at using skin lighteners and losing weight. Hang in there.
(On an off-note: ...for the record, among those of Asian descent I know, people of non-Asian descent with 'yellow fever' aren't exactly a good thing. Those are people to be actively avoided, because generally speaking those people tend to fetishise Asians and Asian culture and it is unbelievably creepy with deep roots in Orientalism. Those are the people who hang out on mail-order bride websites and say things like 'Asian women are so much more submissive and sweet' and that's just... so deeply wrong. I think the OP already knows these people exist, and I don't think that's the attention she's looking for.)
posted by zennish at 4:53 PM on October 10, 2010 [5 favorites]
Geez, is it 1962 over there or something?
From everything I've heard, and from limited interactions (in Asia) with European tourists, well, yes. For whatever reason, casual racism seems to be a lot more acceptable. Maybe that's what happens in ethnically homogenous countries (populated by assholes) dealing with new faces.
Not the Netherlands, but something that might put things in perspective: the Spanish national basketball team posed for photo where they pulled their eyes into slits before the Beijing Olympics. Afterwards, several players (including players who'd played in America for years) claimed they were surprised by the backlash, and many continued to say it wasn't a big deal.
“If I go to play with a taller team and I put here (raising up on the tips of his toes) it is not an offense,” Reneses said. “I can’t understand anything more.”
I'm sorry you're going through such a shitty time. You're surrounded by assholes who are most likely insecure about their future in their own country, and they're taking it out on you. Fuck 'em. They aren't worth your time. If it's totally systemic, and it's there every day, then maybe you should move on. This isn't about accepting a racist system and giving up, it's about denying a bunch of assholes the value you can bring, and about finding some place where you are truly valued.
And you are beautiful. I have no doubts about that. Ignore Vogue. It's crap, and it makes every one who reads it feel bad. Even the models in the magazine don't look like that, it's all photoshopped bullshit. If you really need outside support, can you do a websearch for equivalents from the Phillipines? If you can spend some time getting reinforcement from those, maybe it will help you.
posted by Ghidorah at 4:55 PM on October 10, 2010
From everything I've heard, and from limited interactions (in Asia) with European tourists, well, yes. For whatever reason, casual racism seems to be a lot more acceptable. Maybe that's what happens in ethnically homogenous countries (populated by assholes) dealing with new faces.
Not the Netherlands, but something that might put things in perspective: the Spanish national basketball team posed for photo where they pulled their eyes into slits before the Beijing Olympics. Afterwards, several players (including players who'd played in America for years) claimed they were surprised by the backlash, and many continued to say it wasn't a big deal.
“If I go to play with a taller team and I put here (raising up on the tips of his toes) it is not an offense,” Reneses said. “I can’t understand anything more.”
I'm sorry you're going through such a shitty time. You're surrounded by assholes who are most likely insecure about their future in their own country, and they're taking it out on you. Fuck 'em. They aren't worth your time. If it's totally systemic, and it's there every day, then maybe you should move on. This isn't about accepting a racist system and giving up, it's about denying a bunch of assholes the value you can bring, and about finding some place where you are truly valued.
And you are beautiful. I have no doubts about that. Ignore Vogue. It's crap, and it makes every one who reads it feel bad. Even the models in the magazine don't look like that, it's all photoshopped bullshit. If you really need outside support, can you do a websearch for equivalents from the Phillipines? If you can spend some time getting reinforcement from those, maybe it will help you.
posted by Ghidorah at 4:55 PM on October 10, 2010
Seconding Namlit. I spent three weeks in Rotterdam and Amsterdam last summer with a Caucasian classmate who had long beautiful dreaded hair. She literally could not leave our building without someone yelling "Rasta!" or throwing a Jamaican accent at her.
It's not you. It's them.
posted by athenasbanquet at 4:57 PM on October 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
It's not you. It's them.
posted by athenasbanquet at 4:57 PM on October 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
As far as the slurs you've been receiving, those are just not cool. :(
However, on the topic of coveting looks and confidence, I will share a story from our recent trip to San Francisco (which my husband LOVES to retell): We'd been there for several days when we were waiting for our bus at a stop. A group of what looked to be some kind of school trip walked by, all teenage asian women. I was feeling tired and sweaty from a long day of walking around, and my husband heard me mutter under my breath with all the jealousy I could muster: "I just can't stand it. They're ALL. SO. PRETTY."
He won't let me live it down to this day.
I'm a super tall nordic gal with my own fair share of beauty assets, but we're always going to notice the "pretty" in others and covet what genetics chose NOT to give us. Trust me, for every time you're envying a tall blonde, you can bet your boots some caucasian girl (or guy!) is admiring you. :D
posted by ninjakins at 5:19 PM on October 10, 2010
However, on the topic of coveting looks and confidence, I will share a story from our recent trip to San Francisco (which my husband LOVES to retell): We'd been there for several days when we were waiting for our bus at a stop. A group of what looked to be some kind of school trip walked by, all teenage asian women. I was feeling tired and sweaty from a long day of walking around, and my husband heard me mutter under my breath with all the jealousy I could muster: "I just can't stand it. They're ALL. SO. PRETTY."
He won't let me live it down to this day.
I'm a super tall nordic gal with my own fair share of beauty assets, but we're always going to notice the "pretty" in others and covet what genetics chose NOT to give us. Trust me, for every time you're envying a tall blonde, you can bet your boots some caucasian girl (or guy!) is admiring you. :D
posted by ninjakins at 5:19 PM on October 10, 2010
First off, I'd second those who suggest, if it's possible, moving someplace else. I don't know enough to say whether it's the part of the Netherlands you're in, the Netherlands as a whole, or Europe in general, but the location you're in now is clearly not in a good place at all when it comes to attitudes about race. The kind of behavior you're describing (people pulling back their eyes and giggling at you, calling you "Ting Tong", etc.) is utterly racist and appalling- believe me, the problem is with them, not you.
On the broader issue, you talk about looking at things like lists of "Hollywood's Most Beautiful People", and not seeing any Asian women there. There's no question that the cultural standard of beauty in the West (and even outside the West, alas, in those places where Western norms have gotten a foothold through the transmission of Western media) is one where it is assumed that "white = beautiful". And those beauty norms are pretty obviously based in long-standing societal racism, and they wreak havoc on the self-esteem of a great many women who aren't white. The thing to remember is that while "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" may be an ancient cliche, it's true- there's no universal, objective reality to beauty. The standards have varied wildly from place to place- in parts of Mauritania, for example, fatness has been traditionally been seen as virtually a prerequisite to be considered beautiful, which is obviously quite the opposite of the Western standard. But there's no reason to see the Western standard as having any more validity than the Mauritanian, or vice versa- in truth, none are "correct" or real in any objective sense. None are universal- not everyone agrees with the standard, whatever it is, and a great many people don't. Whatever feature or characteristic you can think of that doesn't match the Western beauty norm, there's more than one person out there who finds it truly beautiful. And there's more of them than you would think, even if they aren't evident among your current circle of friends. (And, on a personal level, I can say that my own personal ideal of beauty is not at all that of Vogue, though I'm very reluctant to go into further detail than that, lest it come off as oversharing or fetishizing, and after all the most important thing in the end is what you think of yourself, not what anyone else does. But suffice it to say that from my own experience, I know that it is not true at all that the only people who could find your outsides as attractive as your insides are "guys who are really, really into anime" and/or the kind of douchebags who think Asian women are exotic and submissive.)
So, given that the standard of beauty that's making you feel this way about yourself is (a.) informed, if mostly unconsciously, by racism, and (b.) without objective reality- why regard it as having any validity or value? Why see it as something worth living up to? I know this is much easier said than done, and being a man I haven't experienced the pressure of being expected to live up to beauty norms- but if you can recognize and really internalize that these beauty standards are subjective, not universal, and based in ideas that are fundamentally pernicious and harmful (for racism is certainly that, and racism isn't the only problem with the sort of beauty standards pushed by things like Vogue, but that's another issue)- it may help counter the messages you're bombarded with, and help you feel better about yourself. (And one thing that helps this practice is to, as others have suggested, avoid exposing yourself to what amounts to propaganda for that particular beauty standard, at least to the extent that it's possible to do so.)
posted by a louis wain cat at 5:34 PM on October 10, 2010
On the broader issue, you talk about looking at things like lists of "Hollywood's Most Beautiful People", and not seeing any Asian women there. There's no question that the cultural standard of beauty in the West (and even outside the West, alas, in those places where Western norms have gotten a foothold through the transmission of Western media) is one where it is assumed that "white = beautiful". And those beauty norms are pretty obviously based in long-standing societal racism, and they wreak havoc on the self-esteem of a great many women who aren't white. The thing to remember is that while "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" may be an ancient cliche, it's true- there's no universal, objective reality to beauty. The standards have varied wildly from place to place- in parts of Mauritania, for example, fatness has been traditionally been seen as virtually a prerequisite to be considered beautiful, which is obviously quite the opposite of the Western standard. But there's no reason to see the Western standard as having any more validity than the Mauritanian, or vice versa- in truth, none are "correct" or real in any objective sense. None are universal- not everyone agrees with the standard, whatever it is, and a great many people don't. Whatever feature or characteristic you can think of that doesn't match the Western beauty norm, there's more than one person out there who finds it truly beautiful. And there's more of them than you would think, even if they aren't evident among your current circle of friends. (And, on a personal level, I can say that my own personal ideal of beauty is not at all that of Vogue, though I'm very reluctant to go into further detail than that, lest it come off as oversharing or fetishizing, and after all the most important thing in the end is what you think of yourself, not what anyone else does. But suffice it to say that from my own experience, I know that it is not true at all that the only people who could find your outsides as attractive as your insides are "guys who are really, really into anime" and/or the kind of douchebags who think Asian women are exotic and submissive.)
So, given that the standard of beauty that's making you feel this way about yourself is (a.) informed, if mostly unconsciously, by racism, and (b.) without objective reality- why regard it as having any validity or value? Why see it as something worth living up to? I know this is much easier said than done, and being a man I haven't experienced the pressure of being expected to live up to beauty norms- but if you can recognize and really internalize that these beauty standards are subjective, not universal, and based in ideas that are fundamentally pernicious and harmful (for racism is certainly that, and racism isn't the only problem with the sort of beauty standards pushed by things like Vogue, but that's another issue)- it may help counter the messages you're bombarded with, and help you feel better about yourself. (And one thing that helps this practice is to, as others have suggested, avoid exposing yourself to what amounts to propaganda for that particular beauty standard, at least to the extent that it's possible to do so.)
posted by a louis wain cat at 5:34 PM on October 10, 2010
Wow...this is intense. I'm going to be talking a bit out of my ass here because I'm a white guy living in the U.S. But, lately because I'm spending a lot of time with Japanese folks trying to learn Japanese (and therefore absorbing a lot of the culture), I think about this issue a lot. Please forgive me if I mess this up; I really only want to assure you you needn't feel the way you do.
There definitely seems to be a general perception among my Japanese friends (not that I know that many, so take it with a grain of salt I suppose) that somehow European features are to be especially admired. I've had arguments with one of my male Japanese friends—who, for the record has told me he is especially attracted to women with Southeast Asian features, not European women!—that women with European features have some sort of perfect, doll-like quality, and that European features approach the golden mean and that's why they are more beautiful. I kid you not, my male Japanese friend told me this. And I had a conversation just today with a Japanese female friend who was talking about how Europeans are "looked up to" in Japan.
I don't get any of this. It doesn't seem healthy to me. I don't really know how to address it as a white American guy though. Fighting with my Japanese friends (or other friends of other Asian ancestry or nationality) about it seems pointless to me, and even on some level inconsiderate or maybe sort of dense.
But at the least I have to make my opinion known to them: that true beauty is relative, not absolute; true beauty is individual, not determined by a person's ethnicity or race; true beauty comes out most through a person's behavior regardless of their features. The most beautiful and sexy people to me are those who are the most joyous and carefree and engaged with their lives and with the people around them.
I am not being glib or facile; I truly believe this. Honestly, I have seen enough of myself and of others now that I can't really allow myself to believe otherwise. Don't get me wrong—I'm still a shallow bastard who likes some physical types more than others, but if someone fits perfectly into my physical type and is a bitter, uptight, joyless, negative individual, they will uglier than the wartiest fat toad to me. No joke.
And I will unequivocally state that people who don't understand this have yet to understand true beauty.
Those lists of "beautiful people" you're talking about—those aren't real. Those pictures aren't pictures of real people. Hell, the people in those pictures aren't really even the people in those pictures, if you know what I mean. The cultural machine that produced those pictures does not have the agenda of helping you to feel good about yourself or confident in your beauty—which is real. And of course, the assholes on the street aren't interested in helping you either.
That's about all I can give you, I'm sorry. Maybe as others have said getting out of the Netherlands would help, maybe getting some therapy just to talk it out and have someone remind you you're not insane would help. But I hope you figure this out for yourself and keep fighting the good fight against all this bullshit.
posted by dubitable at 6:17 PM on October 10, 2010
There definitely seems to be a general perception among my Japanese friends (not that I know that many, so take it with a grain of salt I suppose) that somehow European features are to be especially admired. I've had arguments with one of my male Japanese friends—who, for the record has told me he is especially attracted to women with Southeast Asian features, not European women!—that women with European features have some sort of perfect, doll-like quality, and that European features approach the golden mean and that's why they are more beautiful. I kid you not, my male Japanese friend told me this. And I had a conversation just today with a Japanese female friend who was talking about how Europeans are "looked up to" in Japan.
I don't get any of this. It doesn't seem healthy to me. I don't really know how to address it as a white American guy though. Fighting with my Japanese friends (or other friends of other Asian ancestry or nationality) about it seems pointless to me, and even on some level inconsiderate or maybe sort of dense.
But at the least I have to make my opinion known to them: that true beauty is relative, not absolute; true beauty is individual, not determined by a person's ethnicity or race; true beauty comes out most through a person's behavior regardless of their features. The most beautiful and sexy people to me are those who are the most joyous and carefree and engaged with their lives and with the people around them.
I am not being glib or facile; I truly believe this. Honestly, I have seen enough of myself and of others now that I can't really allow myself to believe otherwise. Don't get me wrong—I'm still a shallow bastard who likes some physical types more than others, but if someone fits perfectly into my physical type and is a bitter, uptight, joyless, negative individual, they will uglier than the wartiest fat toad to me. No joke.
And I will unequivocally state that people who don't understand this have yet to understand true beauty.
Those lists of "beautiful people" you're talking about—those aren't real. Those pictures aren't pictures of real people. Hell, the people in those pictures aren't really even the people in those pictures, if you know what I mean. The cultural machine that produced those pictures does not have the agenda of helping you to feel good about yourself or confident in your beauty—which is real. And of course, the assholes on the street aren't interested in helping you either.
That's about all I can give you, I'm sorry. Maybe as others have said getting out of the Netherlands would help, maybe getting some therapy just to talk it out and have someone remind you you're not insane would help. But I hope you figure this out for yourself and keep fighting the good fight against all this bullshit.
posted by dubitable at 6:17 PM on October 10, 2010
You're young, have lived in three continents, and speak four languages (yikes!). You can do whatever you want. You don't need these idiots, and you don't need Hollywood, and you don't need Vogue. The world is a big place, and somewhere out there, there are wonderful people who will accept you for what you are. But you have to go and find them. The fact that you are not finding these people in bars in Amsterdam does not mean you have to come to terms with anything at all (particularly the opinions of unintelligent people in bars in Amsterdam).
posted by carter at 6:27 PM on October 10, 2010
posted by carter at 6:27 PM on October 10, 2010
I think what would make you feel better is to get out of that poisonous and destructive culture for a while. Can you go on a trip somewhere for at least a week or two? I think concretely experiencing the fact that most of the world won't see you/treat you the way this culture does will make you feel a lot better in the immediate short term, and might give you some emotional reserves to keep going when you have to go back.
posted by Ashley801 at 6:29 PM on October 10, 2010
posted by Ashley801 at 6:29 PM on October 10, 2010
There are some well-meaning comments in this thread along the lines of, "I'm not Asian, but I'm not physically perfect either..." that I think are missing the mark. I realize the OP is specifically talking about feelings of attractiveness, but what she is getting told is, You are not one of us. You do not belong. Hearing that every day will absolutely rot your heart out. It is impossible to feel good about yourself when you are constantly made to feel like a sideshow instead of a neighbor, peer, customer, student, etc. My cure was moving away. Far, far away.
posted by Marit at 6:47 PM on October 10, 2010 [8 favorites]
posted by Marit at 6:47 PM on October 10, 2010 [8 favorites]
Oh man. As a Canadian whose family emigrated from the Netherlands in the 50s, this makes me very happy we left, because what you are experiencing is not okay.
I grew up in rural Ontario, where Asians were few and far between. The one Asian girl in my high school put up with a lot of shit. It sounds like that's the sort of environment you're living in now.
I now live in Toronto, where Asians are super-common, and we know better than to assume they're all Chinese because people immigrate here from everywhere. Mixed-race couples are not uncommon. We have a few creepy white dudes with "yellow fever", but for the rest of us, from what I can see—as a white girl, here's your grain of salt—Asian is just another strand of normal. Some Asian women here are drop-dead gorgeous (like, WTF, how is that possible without photoshopping??), and some are ugly, and the rest are somewhere in the middle, just like the rest of us.
And that one Asian girl from my high school? She's in Toronto now too. And good on her—our rural town didn't deserve her.
I'm certainly not saying it's perfect here. You'll certainly get the "where are you from?" question from ignorant white folk in Toronto. But it sounds a hell of a lot more normal and healthy than where you are right now. What would it take to get yourself into a city more like this?
posted by heatherann at 7:40 PM on October 10, 2010
I grew up in rural Ontario, where Asians were few and far between. The one Asian girl in my high school put up with a lot of shit. It sounds like that's the sort of environment you're living in now.
I now live in Toronto, where Asians are super-common, and we know better than to assume they're all Chinese because people immigrate here from everywhere. Mixed-race couples are not uncommon. We have a few creepy white dudes with "yellow fever", but for the rest of us, from what I can see—as a white girl, here's your grain of salt—Asian is just another strand of normal. Some Asian women here are drop-dead gorgeous (like, WTF, how is that possible without photoshopping??), and some are ugly, and the rest are somewhere in the middle, just like the rest of us.
And that one Asian girl from my high school? She's in Toronto now too. And good on her—our rural town didn't deserve her.
I'm certainly not saying it's perfect here. You'll certainly get the "where are you from?" question from ignorant white folk in Toronto. But it sounds a hell of a lot more normal and healthy than where you are right now. What would it take to get yourself into a city more like this?
posted by heatherann at 7:40 PM on October 10, 2010
I can definitely relate and feel for what you are going through. I am an Asian American woman living in the US, and luckily, I now live in a diverse and liberal city where beauty of many types are much more accepted. However, I did grow up in very homogeneous areas where I was the only Asian person and got racist remarks often. I also felt out of place and absolutely hideous, simply because I was not like the rest of the blond haired girls around me. It took me a long long time to feel beautiful in my own skin.
First, I don't know much about where you are living, but if you truly feel a strong racist tendency, I would consider moving away. I feel even the most thick-skinned person will not be able to fully thrive when they are actively being put down for something that should not be a problem at all, and they cannot change. Not only is it disheartening to never see someone else that looks like you, it also crushes the soul a bit knowing how everyone thinks it's ok to treat you that way. If I hadn't moved to a more diverse area, I don't know if I would have been able to eventually gain confidence. Consider moving to a more diverse area if it is at all possible.
Also, please know that you are not ugly. You are not a freak, and this is not your fault. It is everyone else's problem that they are racist, and the domination of Western media's problem that they do not put Asians on the covers of magazines and starring roles in movies. You are simply in such an environment where you can't see the beauty that you really are, because the media and your environment is bombarding us with messages that we are not beautiful unless we fit a certain mold (namely, thin, white, tall, etc). Even the very few Asian women in Western media are chosen because they still fit nicely into that mold and look a bit Western. Please put down all those magazines...even the most confident of women will feel a bit uglier after looking at them. Though I realize the Asian media also have strong Western influences (such as picking lighter skinned models with bigger eyes, because they look more white), I would suggest you briefly look into the famous ladies of your ethnicity in the media from your home country. You will hopefully find more absolutely stunning women that look like yourself. However, I would also not recommend looking to much into these, because of course, every media outlet has their own unrealistic measures of beauty. I only suggest this so you can see that people of your race ARE considered VERY beautiful in many parts of the world. The problem is not you. No race is inherently more beautiful than another...it is your environment. You must be able to transcend the pressures and images fed to you that you must be a certain race or a certain weight to be beautiful.
If it makes you feel any better, there are movements out there (especially in more urban areas of the U.S.) trying to make Asian-Americans more prominent in mainstream media. There are people that feel just like you, and are trying to combat the problem. Again, the problem is Western media, and a close-minded society. Please don't let closed-minded people and some money-driven glossy ads make you think less of yourself. Message me personally if you ever want to talk.
posted by lacedcoffee at 8:18 PM on October 10, 2010
First, I don't know much about where you are living, but if you truly feel a strong racist tendency, I would consider moving away. I feel even the most thick-skinned person will not be able to fully thrive when they are actively being put down for something that should not be a problem at all, and they cannot change. Not only is it disheartening to never see someone else that looks like you, it also crushes the soul a bit knowing how everyone thinks it's ok to treat you that way. If I hadn't moved to a more diverse area, I don't know if I would have been able to eventually gain confidence. Consider moving to a more diverse area if it is at all possible.
Also, please know that you are not ugly. You are not a freak, and this is not your fault. It is everyone else's problem that they are racist, and the domination of Western media's problem that they do not put Asians on the covers of magazines and starring roles in movies. You are simply in such an environment where you can't see the beauty that you really are, because the media and your environment is bombarding us with messages that we are not beautiful unless we fit a certain mold (namely, thin, white, tall, etc). Even the very few Asian women in Western media are chosen because they still fit nicely into that mold and look a bit Western. Please put down all those magazines...even the most confident of women will feel a bit uglier after looking at them. Though I realize the Asian media also have strong Western influences (such as picking lighter skinned models with bigger eyes, because they look more white), I would suggest you briefly look into the famous ladies of your ethnicity in the media from your home country. You will hopefully find more absolutely stunning women that look like yourself. However, I would also not recommend looking to much into these, because of course, every media outlet has their own unrealistic measures of beauty. I only suggest this so you can see that people of your race ARE considered VERY beautiful in many parts of the world. The problem is not you. No race is inherently more beautiful than another...it is your environment. You must be able to transcend the pressures and images fed to you that you must be a certain race or a certain weight to be beautiful.
If it makes you feel any better, there are movements out there (especially in more urban areas of the U.S.) trying to make Asian-Americans more prominent in mainstream media. There are people that feel just like you, and are trying to combat the problem. Again, the problem is Western media, and a close-minded society. Please don't let closed-minded people and some money-driven glossy ads make you think less of yourself. Message me personally if you ever want to talk.
posted by lacedcoffee at 8:18 PM on October 10, 2010
Also, I wanted to ad that although some comments above have the best of intentions, this is not just some superficial, "I don't feel attractive" post. What the OP is experiencing has immense racial undertones, from outright racial slurs to the quiet racial bias of the media. This is not just about volunteering and knowing there are men out there that covet Asian women (by the way, seconding whoever above said that "yellow fever" is NOT flattering, and even a bit insulting to Asian women). At the root of this is a very controversial and hotly debated topic about racism and beauty.
posted by lacedcoffee at 8:24 PM on October 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by lacedcoffee at 8:24 PM on October 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
I look at the girls my guy friends want to bone and they are all girls with prominent Western features.
Oh OP, I hear you. And I really don't think that leaving the Netherlands, while it might be a good idea if you're really unhappy there, is going to solve nearly enough of your problem. It's not like there is some magical place where non-white women can escape the white beauty standard.
Brutally stupid remarks in bars are a very obvious form of racism, and while that makes them very hurtful and outrageous, they can also be somewhat easier to recover from, because you know, and many other people acknowledge, that something is wrong with the idiots who say them and not you. What hurts much more, I think, is a kind of exclusion that Americans, whose history has largely pushed them beyond more unsophisticated forms of racism, find much easier to accept. This means the magazine covers and everything you mentioned, but I'm also talking about the white guy in the street who just isn't attracted to X girls, not because of their race or anything, just because of the features they tend to have as a group, and he just happens to go crazy over blue eyes and it's not his fault only white girls have them, and hey, it's only natural to be attracted to people of your own race, blah blah blah... These people don't mean to do any harm, but the fact that we generally can't challenge or even really talk about people's personal aesthetic and sexual preferences, even though they are so obviously shaped by racist historical and cultural forces, creates a silent space where non-white women are left alone to conclude that the problem lies with them.
But it really, really, really doesn't. I'm sorry - I don't know if your culture is ever going to step up and tell you that you are beautiful, that you are desirable, that you are normal and that it is normal to want you. But it's the truth, and you have to know that. You can get there, but how to go about it? Personally, being bisexual is what has helped me the most. Nobody can tell me a damn thing about black women not being beautiful. I realise you probably can't just go out and be a lesbian tomorrow, but I encourage you to simply look at girls who look like you, and make a conscious effort to love them and appreciate them. (Tip: when you do your Google image search for "filipina", make sure safesearch is ON.) You might have to learn how to see and understand their beauty, not because it is any less, but just because you haven't spent your whole life having it spelled out for you. Then respect your own opinion - don't let other people touch it or change it just because they're other people. Trust yourself more. Don't just accept the messages that come to you, from the media or from the people around you. Spot them and question them, constantly, reflexively, because they are not the truth. You kind of have to commit to that, but it will come and it's worth it. Every woman's self-esteem is under attack in Western culture; women of colour just have an extra knife at their throats. You're not alone in feeling this bad, but you also won't be alone when you feel better. Best of luck!
posted by two or three cars parked under the stars at 8:42 PM on October 10, 2010 [6 favorites]
Oh OP, I hear you. And I really don't think that leaving the Netherlands, while it might be a good idea if you're really unhappy there, is going to solve nearly enough of your problem. It's not like there is some magical place where non-white women can escape the white beauty standard.
Brutally stupid remarks in bars are a very obvious form of racism, and while that makes them very hurtful and outrageous, they can also be somewhat easier to recover from, because you know, and many other people acknowledge, that something is wrong with the idiots who say them and not you. What hurts much more, I think, is a kind of exclusion that Americans, whose history has largely pushed them beyond more unsophisticated forms of racism, find much easier to accept. This means the magazine covers and everything you mentioned, but I'm also talking about the white guy in the street who just isn't attracted to X girls, not because of their race or anything, just because of the features they tend to have as a group, and he just happens to go crazy over blue eyes and it's not his fault only white girls have them, and hey, it's only natural to be attracted to people of your own race, blah blah blah... These people don't mean to do any harm, but the fact that we generally can't challenge or even really talk about people's personal aesthetic and sexual preferences, even though they are so obviously shaped by racist historical and cultural forces, creates a silent space where non-white women are left alone to conclude that the problem lies with them.
But it really, really, really doesn't. I'm sorry - I don't know if your culture is ever going to step up and tell you that you are beautiful, that you are desirable, that you are normal and that it is normal to want you. But it's the truth, and you have to know that. You can get there, but how to go about it? Personally, being bisexual is what has helped me the most. Nobody can tell me a damn thing about black women not being beautiful. I realise you probably can't just go out and be a lesbian tomorrow, but I encourage you to simply look at girls who look like you, and make a conscious effort to love them and appreciate them. (Tip: when you do your Google image search for "filipina", make sure safesearch is ON.) You might have to learn how to see and understand their beauty, not because it is any less, but just because you haven't spent your whole life having it spelled out for you. Then respect your own opinion - don't let other people touch it or change it just because they're other people. Trust yourself more. Don't just accept the messages that come to you, from the media or from the people around you. Spot them and question them, constantly, reflexively, because they are not the truth. You kind of have to commit to that, but it will come and it's worth it. Every woman's self-esteem is under attack in Western culture; women of colour just have an extra knife at their throats. You're not alone in feeling this bad, but you also won't be alone when you feel better. Best of luck!
posted by two or three cars parked under the stars at 8:42 PM on October 10, 2010 [6 favorites]
If moving out isn't practical right now, perhaps it would help to watch Asian films, or read Asian magazines or websites... just to help get that feeling that you're not weird, that there are places where your type of beauty fits right in.
posted by zompist at 10:11 PM on October 10, 2010
posted by zompist at 10:11 PM on October 10, 2010
My boyfriend's advice: Move.
My boyfriend is half-filipino, and he is gorgeous. And his mom and siblings and cousins, etc. are all beautiful, too. Like, it's amazing.
I'm very sorry you're being treated so poorly where you're living. You don't deserve that crap. My boyfriend had the misfortune of being moved from San Francisco (where being Asian felt completely normal to him) to rural Indiana when he was 9, and had to endure all manner of racist crap there. He says people called him every racial slur except the ones that might have been applicable. No one knew what he was. He said he felt like no girls found him attractive at all in school (did I mention that he's gorgeous?) and had very low self-esteem and low standards in his late teens/early 20s because of this.
He, now 29, knows women find him attractive, but says he didn't realize this until he left home. He moved to a university town in a different state with a much larger, more racially diverse population and liberal attitude. He's much more comfortable here.
And for what it's worth...
I realize that to compare my situation to yours would be a bit absurd, but I've got to say I've felt pretty lame as a blond, blue eyed white girl plenty of times when comparing myself to women of other races. In Thailand, I felt like a blimp. Like the biggest woman on the street. And so many guys I've dated have some kind of "Asian girl" fantasy (which is objectifying, but at least points to many men finding Asian women attractive, right?). An ex bf of mine and I got into a really stupid fight once because of the amount porn featuring Japanese women I kept finding on our computer. I felt like, man, I can be a lot of things, but I can never be Japanese! It was rather childish on my part, but I took it to mean that I could never be what he wanted. (Then he pointed out the amount of porn featuring black guys downloaded by yours truly, and I had to admit I was being silly.) What's my point? Umm: People find all kinds of people attractive, I guess. I know I do.
posted by apis mellifera at 11:40 PM on October 10, 2010
My boyfriend is half-filipino, and he is gorgeous. And his mom and siblings and cousins, etc. are all beautiful, too. Like, it's amazing.
I'm very sorry you're being treated so poorly where you're living. You don't deserve that crap. My boyfriend had the misfortune of being moved from San Francisco (where being Asian felt completely normal to him) to rural Indiana when he was 9, and had to endure all manner of racist crap there. He says people called him every racial slur except the ones that might have been applicable. No one knew what he was. He said he felt like no girls found him attractive at all in school (did I mention that he's gorgeous?) and had very low self-esteem and low standards in his late teens/early 20s because of this.
He, now 29, knows women find him attractive, but says he didn't realize this until he left home. He moved to a university town in a different state with a much larger, more racially diverse population and liberal attitude. He's much more comfortable here.
And for what it's worth...
I realize that to compare my situation to yours would be a bit absurd, but I've got to say I've felt pretty lame as a blond, blue eyed white girl plenty of times when comparing myself to women of other races. In Thailand, I felt like a blimp. Like the biggest woman on the street. And so many guys I've dated have some kind of "Asian girl" fantasy (which is objectifying, but at least points to many men finding Asian women attractive, right?). An ex bf of mine and I got into a really stupid fight once because of the amount porn featuring Japanese women I kept finding on our computer. I felt like, man, I can be a lot of things, but I can never be Japanese! It was rather childish on my part, but I took it to mean that I could never be what he wanted. (Then he pointed out the amount of porn featuring black guys downloaded by yours truly, and I had to admit I was being silly.) What's my point? Umm: People find all kinds of people attractive, I guess. I know I do.
posted by apis mellifera at 11:40 PM on October 10, 2010
It's hard to think objectively when under a great deal of stress. And clearly, this situation is causing stress for you. A few observations: you may be misunderstanding why some of these stupid remarks and gestures are made. For some, it's nothing more than an inability to interact - to put the shoe on the other foot, think of how some Europeans were/are treated in parts of China, particularly blonde women - crowds gather and people frankly stare, grab their hair etc. It's stupid and uncouth and ignorant and all that - but it's not necessarily done out of malice. I have no doubt that there are racist Dutch (and racists in any nation), but not all of these unfortunate interactions are based on their disliking or hating or devaluing you. Yes it's crappy, and wearing and soul-crushing. But perhaps you can make it a tiny bit less soul-crushing if you put it in a larger perspective and realize that it's sometimes just people being clueless... and it may help to think "well, my blond tormentor, you'd have an interesting time in some parts of China", because it will keep reinforcing for you that appearance and beauty standards are not universal, but culturally determined. And some of this behavior may be actually a function of the opposite phenomenon - think of the guy at school who tugs on the pony tail of a girl he's actually attracted to... some of the "asian eye" gestures may be down to this - immature as hell, but real nonetheless.
Guys not asking you out. Personal anecdote - growing up in Sweden in the 80's, I rarely encountered black people, even in Stockholm. They were "exotic". When a black girl enrolled in our school, I was quite taken with her beauty, as were several of my friends. Nonetheless, not one of us asked her out, out of fear of appearing to ask her out only because she was "exotic". And we were too unsophisticated to figure out a way out of this dilemma. I bet you anything, that quite a few guys would be happy to ask you out, but refrain from doing so, because they don't want to be associated, however unfairly, with the "yellow fever" creeps.
Really, what you must understand very clearly is this: you are in a provincial environment. Europe is still, in many places, shockingly provincial. I cannot imagine you'd get such treatment in NYC or San Francisco or Los Angeles or more diverse places. So you are suffering from being stuck in a frankly limited, homogenous, narrow place. When I started traveling extensively all over the world, I quickly realized that I could never live permanently in Sweden - every time I came back it seemed even more provincial. Now I live in Los Angeles, and what I love most about this city is the racial, ethnic and cultural diversity - caucasians are actually a minority here! You must make a decision. Do you want to stick it out in hicksville, or not. If you decide to stay, always keep in mind: that is the price you are paying - it has nothing but nothing to do with you as an individual. There are absolutely gorgeous Asian women all over the world - internalize this, and ask yourself whether you want to hang out in a place that handicaps you out of sheer ignorance and parochialism.
posted by VikingSword at 11:55 PM on October 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
Guys not asking you out. Personal anecdote - growing up in Sweden in the 80's, I rarely encountered black people, even in Stockholm. They were "exotic". When a black girl enrolled in our school, I was quite taken with her beauty, as were several of my friends. Nonetheless, not one of us asked her out, out of fear of appearing to ask her out only because she was "exotic". And we were too unsophisticated to figure out a way out of this dilemma. I bet you anything, that quite a few guys would be happy to ask you out, but refrain from doing so, because they don't want to be associated, however unfairly, with the "yellow fever" creeps.
Really, what you must understand very clearly is this: you are in a provincial environment. Europe is still, in many places, shockingly provincial. I cannot imagine you'd get such treatment in NYC or San Francisco or Los Angeles or more diverse places. So you are suffering from being stuck in a frankly limited, homogenous, narrow place. When I started traveling extensively all over the world, I quickly realized that I could never live permanently in Sweden - every time I came back it seemed even more provincial. Now I live in Los Angeles, and what I love most about this city is the racial, ethnic and cultural diversity - caucasians are actually a minority here! You must make a decision. Do you want to stick it out in hicksville, or not. If you decide to stay, always keep in mind: that is the price you are paying - it has nothing but nothing to do with you as an individual. There are absolutely gorgeous Asian women all over the world - internalize this, and ask yourself whether you want to hang out in a place that handicaps you out of sheer ignorance and parochialism.
posted by VikingSword at 11:55 PM on October 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
Lucy Liu is considered one of Hollywood's Most Beautiful.
FWIW, people in Asia don't consider her attractive and are often actually baffled by the fact that many Americans think she's hot.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 2:00 AM on October 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
FWIW, people in Asia don't consider her attractive and are often actually baffled by the fact that many Americans think she's hot.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 2:00 AM on October 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
Is that really what it's like in the Netherlands? Jesus, so much for Holland's legendary tolerance.
Move to London. It's better here.
posted by Ted Maul at 2:04 AM on October 11, 2010
Move to London. It's better here.
posted by Ted Maul at 2:04 AM on October 11, 2010
Or consider Berlin. I find the people more respectful and less superficial, as a Dutchman.
posted by willem at 3:24 AM on October 11, 2010
posted by willem at 3:24 AM on October 11, 2010
Jesus, so much for Holland's legendary tolerance.
I found there to be more "indifference" than "tolerance".
posted by willem at 3:33 AM on October 11, 2010
I found there to be more "indifference" than "tolerance".
posted by willem at 3:33 AM on October 11, 2010
I used to be like you. (I am an Asian female and grew up in Asia but now has lived in two predominantly-white countries for the past 8 years... so far).
Maybe the Netherlands is more provincial/ racist than other countries, but I have encountered racism everywhere I have gone -- Northeast and the Western coast of US, London, in UK in general. Conscious or unconsciously racist. You won't believe how many people would say something like, "I'm not racist! I love people from other cultures! They are beautiful and exotic," which is in itself a racist statement -- honestly, do these people think I'm supposed to be their exotic mantelpiece and the reason for my existence is so that they can prove to everyone else how worldly they are?
Then I realized that people can only treat me shabbily/ be racist only if I allow them to treat me that way. Or as Eleanor Roosevelt says, "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." People can only remind me that I am different if I am convinced that I am different/ abnormal.
I learned to let these comments roll off my back. Like, whatever, they may think I'm different, but I think I'm perfectly normal/ amazing, and I have loads of friends, a career, hobbies that I love. Who cares what some random person thinks? Who cares what that douchebag thinks? I'm amazing, I fit right in and I'll walk with proud shoulders and confidence.
You'll be surprised how just a minor internal adjustment to your mindset can affect how other people perceive you.
Just by projecting a sense of confidence, you'll keep away all the creepy guys who would pursue you just because you're exotic. And then you can make real friends who would see past your ethnicity, the ones who would see the complete you, with all your personality quirks and your special qualities. And some of them might even fall in love with you.
posted by moiraine at 4:07 AM on October 11, 2010 [4 favorites]
Maybe the Netherlands is more provincial/ racist than other countries, but I have encountered racism everywhere I have gone -- Northeast and the Western coast of US, London, in UK in general. Conscious or unconsciously racist. You won't believe how many people would say something like, "I'm not racist! I love people from other cultures! They are beautiful and exotic," which is in itself a racist statement -- honestly, do these people think I'm supposed to be their exotic mantelpiece and the reason for my existence is so that they can prove to everyone else how worldly they are?
Then I realized that people can only treat me shabbily/ be racist only if I allow them to treat me that way. Or as Eleanor Roosevelt says, "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." People can only remind me that I am different if I am convinced that I am different/ abnormal.
I learned to let these comments roll off my back. Like, whatever, they may think I'm different, but I think I'm perfectly normal/ amazing, and I have loads of friends, a career, hobbies that I love. Who cares what some random person thinks? Who cares what that douchebag thinks? I'm amazing, I fit right in and I'll walk with proud shoulders and confidence.
You'll be surprised how just a minor internal adjustment to your mindset can affect how other people perceive you.
Just by projecting a sense of confidence, you'll keep away all the creepy guys who would pursue you just because you're exotic. And then you can make real friends who would see past your ethnicity, the ones who would see the complete you, with all your personality quirks and your special qualities. And some of them might even fall in love with you.
posted by moiraine at 4:07 AM on October 11, 2010 [4 favorites]
Also, re comments like "Where are you from? Do you speak Chinese?"
I usually let comments like that slide. I mean, people are trying to connect with me, it's not my fault that they are unworldly and ignorant.
It's also not my job to educate them. So smile politely, and move away.
posted by moiraine at 4:12 AM on October 11, 2010
I usually let comments like that slide. I mean, people are trying to connect with me, it's not my fault that they are unworldly and ignorant.
It's also not my job to educate them. So smile politely, and move away.
posted by moiraine at 4:12 AM on October 11, 2010
You need to come back at them with a snappy soundbite about colonial exploitation in the Dutch East Indies. WTF?? So much for the Netherlands as an ideal society.
posted by bad grammar at 5:07 AM on October 11, 2010
posted by bad grammar at 5:07 AM on October 11, 2010
I want to say that the Dutch people that I have met have been very polite, kind, and generous. Also that this happens throughout the United States as well, and is not limited to Europe. Having lived in both places, anti-Asian sentiment is, I think, stronger in California than it is in the South. It's different; in the South, because there are fewer of them, Asians are a curiosity; in California, people complain about people who don't speak English and how they were driving and saw a bunch of stores with signs in a different language and how it made them feel icky in their tummy or whatever. Even here, on Metafilter, as recently as a year or so ago, any Metatalk thread mentioning "China" or "Japan" was a race to see who could post their 'funniest' ethnic joke first. It has improved somewhat.
"well, my blond tormentor, you'd have an interesting time in some parts of China"
I realize that you have good intentions with this statement, but China has nothing to do with this. OP is not Chinese. Unfortunately, I do not think that "Well, if you were to move to a country where you wanted to be accepted and fit in with the general population, you wouldn't be able to!" is not a very helpful frame of mind for somebody who wants to fit in and be accepted in the country they're in, especially if the person has never been to this random other countries.
I agree that there may not be any intentional malice in these interactions, but they all add up to a background message of 'you're different, you don't belong here, you'll never be one of us, just look at you'.
If it helps, OP, you're not the only one who goes through this. It's wrong, and it's messed up.
posted by Comrade_robot at 5:32 AM on October 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
"well, my blond tormentor, you'd have an interesting time in some parts of China"
I realize that you have good intentions with this statement, but China has nothing to do with this. OP is not Chinese. Unfortunately, I do not think that "Well, if you were to move to a country where you wanted to be accepted and fit in with the general population, you wouldn't be able to!" is not a very helpful frame of mind for somebody who wants to fit in and be accepted in the country they're in, especially if the person has never been to this random other countries.
I agree that there may not be any intentional malice in these interactions, but they all add up to a background message of 'you're different, you don't belong here, you'll never be one of us, just look at you'.
If it helps, OP, you're not the only one who goes through this. It's wrong, and it's messed up.
posted by Comrade_robot at 5:32 AM on October 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
What you're experiencing isn't just a problem in the Netherlands, unfortunately. In the U.S., the brilliant minds at NBC for some reason greenlighted the show Outsourced, which basically consists of one racist stereotype after another of Southeast Asians.
Not having been in your exact situation, I can't tell you just what to do—but my first thought is that no matter where you are, you're probably going to run into racism of some sort. Even among people who look just like you, you may well face pressure regarding whether you're "authentically" part of X, Y, or Z culture.
The best thing you can do, in my estimation, is realize that while there are assholes everywhere, that in no way devalues who you are and how you look and what you know. What they think about you is their problem—even if it feels like they're making it your problem by preemptively judging you on the basis of your race. Those people are really doing you a favor and letting you know upfront that they're not people you'd want for friends. As Maya Angelou once said, "When someone shows you who they are, believe them."
And four languages? Wow. I'm envious.
posted by limeonaire at 6:05 AM on October 11, 2010
Not having been in your exact situation, I can't tell you just what to do—but my first thought is that no matter where you are, you're probably going to run into racism of some sort. Even among people who look just like you, you may well face pressure regarding whether you're "authentically" part of X, Y, or Z culture.
The best thing you can do, in my estimation, is realize that while there are assholes everywhere, that in no way devalues who you are and how you look and what you know. What they think about you is their problem—even if it feels like they're making it your problem by preemptively judging you on the basis of your race. Those people are really doing you a favor and letting you know upfront that they're not people you'd want for friends. As Maya Angelou once said, "When someone shows you who they are, believe them."
And four languages? Wow. I'm envious.
posted by limeonaire at 6:05 AM on October 11, 2010
You sound very unhappy.
A lot of people are suggesting that you should leave The Netherlands. That it's a bad place. Hell, the whole of Europe is.
Of course that's an option.
But maybe moving is not the best way to approach this.
What strikes me about your question is that it sounds very extreme, very cast in black and white:
How can I stop feeling like an ugly Asian freak?
where most of the girls look like they walked off the pages of Vogue
trust me; Dutch girls can be just as average as women from other parts of the world. And everywhere I've been in the world I've had moments of thinking "these girls are all so cute"
From my experience it's easy to feel this bad about yourself
1. when you're a bit depressed and things 'get to you'. Of course this can be the result of the other points.
2. when you hang out with people who are not right for you
3. when you expose yourself to the kind of impressions that feed you subliminally with the idea that you should be different. (this loops back partly into 2.)
So I'd say:
1. take good care of yourself. (eating well, exercise, fullfilling work/study, spend time with friends, find a relationship that makes you feel good)
2. find social scenes where you are comfortable (work, neighbourhood, social activities). Where you can feel included. That doesn't have to be a place where everybody looks asian I don't think. Maybe a more alternative life style scene. But on the other hand maybe that's just what you need right now; a place to feel like everybody else. Maybe some of the bigger cities are more ethnically diverse with asian looking people from china, surinam, indonesia as well as vietnamese boat refugees etc. etc.
3. it's very easy to feel different and undesirable no matter what you're like. Hell, I certainly have at times and a lot of people have that were not ethnically different from the people around them. Sometimes watching too much sitcoms that are too polished and reading some superficial magazines etc can instill a very strong feeling that you should be like the people in those sitcoms, in those magazines. So cut the chord of the glamour industry that feed into an artificial sense of beauty.
There are ethnical tensions in the Netherlands obviously. I think they're more related to muslims. But still.
Personally I feel that the thing that will defuse this is that we encounter each other; at work, in social settings, doing sports etc. It's impossible to feel about somebody as 'other' when you hang out, do things together, have shared concerns. Pretty quickly you're not so much aware anymore of the others accent, skin colour or shape of the eyes, you like them for what they do and say or are annoyed by that.
I'm confident that you can start to feel less 'other' about yourself and less 'other' about people around you very soon by spending more time like that with people. They're just people by then.
Heck, maybe we'll meet at one of the rare Dutch mefi meetups. They generally happen when a mefite from the US, CA or UK happens to be here and rallies some Dutch mefites for beer.
And then you'll find out that we're not obnoxious Vogue inhabitants but are geeky, nice, annoying, boring, exciting, average looking, kind etc etc.
posted by joost de vries at 6:05 AM on October 11, 2010
A lot of people are suggesting that you should leave The Netherlands. That it's a bad place. Hell, the whole of Europe is.
Of course that's an option.
But maybe moving is not the best way to approach this.
What strikes me about your question is that it sounds very extreme, very cast in black and white:
How can I stop feeling like an ugly Asian freak?
where most of the girls look like they walked off the pages of Vogue
trust me; Dutch girls can be just as average as women from other parts of the world. And everywhere I've been in the world I've had moments of thinking "these girls are all so cute"
From my experience it's easy to feel this bad about yourself
1. when you're a bit depressed and things 'get to you'. Of course this can be the result of the other points.
2. when you hang out with people who are not right for you
3. when you expose yourself to the kind of impressions that feed you subliminally with the idea that you should be different. (this loops back partly into 2.)
So I'd say:
1. take good care of yourself. (eating well, exercise, fullfilling work/study, spend time with friends, find a relationship that makes you feel good)
2. find social scenes where you are comfortable (work, neighbourhood, social activities). Where you can feel included. That doesn't have to be a place where everybody looks asian I don't think. Maybe a more alternative life style scene. But on the other hand maybe that's just what you need right now; a place to feel like everybody else. Maybe some of the bigger cities are more ethnically diverse with asian looking people from china, surinam, indonesia as well as vietnamese boat refugees etc. etc.
3. it's very easy to feel different and undesirable no matter what you're like. Hell, I certainly have at times and a lot of people have that were not ethnically different from the people around them. Sometimes watching too much sitcoms that are too polished and reading some superficial magazines etc can instill a very strong feeling that you should be like the people in those sitcoms, in those magazines. So cut the chord of the glamour industry that feed into an artificial sense of beauty.
There are ethnical tensions in the Netherlands obviously. I think they're more related to muslims. But still.
Personally I feel that the thing that will defuse this is that we encounter each other; at work, in social settings, doing sports etc. It's impossible to feel about somebody as 'other' when you hang out, do things together, have shared concerns. Pretty quickly you're not so much aware anymore of the others accent, skin colour or shape of the eyes, you like them for what they do and say or are annoyed by that.
I'm confident that you can start to feel less 'other' about yourself and less 'other' about people around you very soon by spending more time like that with people. They're just people by then.
Heck, maybe we'll meet at one of the rare Dutch mefi meetups. They generally happen when a mefite from the US, CA or UK happens to be here and rallies some Dutch mefites for beer.
And then you'll find out that we're not obnoxious Vogue inhabitants but are geeky, nice, annoying, boring, exciting, average looking, kind etc etc.
posted by joost de vries at 6:05 AM on October 11, 2010
"I'm not racist! I love people from other cultures! They are beautiful and exotic,"
My partner is not white, and here, in a relatively diverse corner of the US where there are plenty of non-white people just like her, white people say this kind of stuff to her all the time. Mostly it's just cluelessness; they have no idea how to interact successfully and say the wrong thing as a result. And sometimes it's malevolent; they want to say something mean and hurtful and it usually works.
When she travels to Europe, she gets the same kind of things (adjusted for a different ethnicity) that you are getting. It's a lot cruder and more aggressive than most of what gets said to her in the US, but the overall message is exactly the same: you are not one of us, you don't genuinely belong, there's something not right about you.
So no, leaving the Netherlands isn't going to magically fix all of this, though the crudity of the comments will definitely be different. Like others have said, more eloquently, above, the change can only come from inside you. You have to believe that you are beautiful on your own terms -- and that belief will never come from any fashion magazine or TV show. It's almost like you just have to decide that this is the way it is going to be, and then live your life that way. And even if your broader environment is racist and tiresome, it is incredibly important to make sure that the people close to you are genuinely allies, people who get it and who are totally supportive of you. If you are battling this on the street, and then come home to more of it, that's a recipe for sadness.
posted by Forktine at 6:27 AM on October 11, 2010 [2 favorites]
My partner is not white, and here, in a relatively diverse corner of the US where there are plenty of non-white people just like her, white people say this kind of stuff to her all the time. Mostly it's just cluelessness; they have no idea how to interact successfully and say the wrong thing as a result. And sometimes it's malevolent; they want to say something mean and hurtful and it usually works.
When she travels to Europe, she gets the same kind of things (adjusted for a different ethnicity) that you are getting. It's a lot cruder and more aggressive than most of what gets said to her in the US, but the overall message is exactly the same: you are not one of us, you don't genuinely belong, there's something not right about you.
So no, leaving the Netherlands isn't going to magically fix all of this, though the crudity of the comments will definitely be different. Like others have said, more eloquently, above, the change can only come from inside you. You have to believe that you are beautiful on your own terms -- and that belief will never come from any fashion magazine or TV show. It's almost like you just have to decide that this is the way it is going to be, and then live your life that way. And even if your broader environment is racist and tiresome, it is incredibly important to make sure that the people close to you are genuinely allies, people who get it and who are totally supportive of you. If you are battling this on the street, and then come home to more of it, that's a recipe for sadness.
posted by Forktine at 6:27 AM on October 11, 2010 [2 favorites]
I don't have great advice, but I want you to know that you are not alone.
I had a similar kind of experience growing up in the deep south. It wasn't until I was in college, where there were more Asians that I could talk with, that I could really begin to appreciate my heritage and have greater acceptance of who I am.
I've also noticed that people treat me more like just another human being now that I'm older. I'm guessing many of the comments you've gotten from people are from younger folk, who still don't quite understand how to interact with people in general. In the past 15 years, I've only had one remotely racist comment directed towards me (from drunken frat boys driving by, no less).
Also, echoing some observations above, when I was younger, I received a lot of the same comments you did (though I'm male, so they were of a different nature). For example, if I spoke Chinese (poorly), if I knew kung fu (no), if I knew Mao Tse Tung (no, he's dead already you know), where I was from (America...), and so on. The vast majority of these questions were of genuine curiosity, though very awkward. Again, now that I'm much older and interacting with older folk, these questions don't happen (beyond the "where are you from", which is asked out of conversational smalltalk).
So, I know it's rough now, but given your obvious intellect, you will be able to find people will be able to relate to you as a person rather than as a stereotype, and things will get better. It won't be as quick as you would like, but it will happen.
posted by jasonhong at 7:13 AM on October 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
I had a similar kind of experience growing up in the deep south. It wasn't until I was in college, where there were more Asians that I could talk with, that I could really begin to appreciate my heritage and have greater acceptance of who I am.
I've also noticed that people treat me more like just another human being now that I'm older. I'm guessing many of the comments you've gotten from people are from younger folk, who still don't quite understand how to interact with people in general. In the past 15 years, I've only had one remotely racist comment directed towards me (from drunken frat boys driving by, no less).
Also, echoing some observations above, when I was younger, I received a lot of the same comments you did (though I'm male, so they were of a different nature). For example, if I spoke Chinese (poorly), if I knew kung fu (no), if I knew Mao Tse Tung (no, he's dead already you know), where I was from (America...), and so on. The vast majority of these questions were of genuine curiosity, though very awkward. Again, now that I'm much older and interacting with older folk, these questions don't happen (beyond the "where are you from", which is asked out of conversational smalltalk).
So, I know it's rough now, but given your obvious intellect, you will be able to find people will be able to relate to you as a person rather than as a stereotype, and things will get better. It won't be as quick as you would like, but it will happen.
posted by jasonhong at 7:13 AM on October 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
not even believing I could be American because I appeared ethnically Chinese.
OMG my Russian friends are notorious for this.
Them: Where's your friend from?
Me: Here (California)
Them: No, ORIGINALLY.
Me: California
Them: No, ORIGINALLY.
Me: If you're talking about his nationality, 100 years ago his ancestors came to California from Japan.
Them: A-ha! So he's Japanese!
Me: WTF?!
I don't know if I can speak to your problem because I'm white, but my friends tell me that even here in the San Francisco Bay Area Asians get racist stuff. Even when it's the older generation, and they're not malicious, just ignorant, it's a mindfuck to be singled out. (e.g., Your accent is perfect!)
From what I can tell, what's seemed to help counteract that poison is to hang out with people who have experienced the same thing and who talk and joke about it.
Results: It really sinks in that 1) yes, it's a real phenomenon, (despite the input from people saying that could never happen in the SF Bay Area) 2) It really IS the other person being an idiot, 3) Sensible, intelligent people don't view the world that way.
Basically, try to surround yourself with enough sensible, intelligent minorities that their input overwhelms the racist input. I don't know if sympathetic non-minorities would be helpful, since their experience won't be the same, but I could be wrong.
I would be inclined to mention these incidents to my co-workers, etc, just to raise awareness, but YMMV.
And yes, quit reading Vogue. Those magazines are designed to give everyone a complex in order to sell product.
posted by small_ruminant at 12:41 PM on October 11, 2010 [2 favorites]
OMG my Russian friends are notorious for this.
Them: Where's your friend from?
Me: Here (California)
Them: No, ORIGINALLY.
Me: California
Them: No, ORIGINALLY.
Me: If you're talking about his nationality, 100 years ago his ancestors came to California from Japan.
Them: A-ha! So he's Japanese!
Me: WTF?!
I don't know if I can speak to your problem because I'm white, but my friends tell me that even here in the San Francisco Bay Area Asians get racist stuff. Even when it's the older generation, and they're not malicious, just ignorant, it's a mindfuck to be singled out. (e.g., Your accent is perfect!)
From what I can tell, what's seemed to help counteract that poison is to hang out with people who have experienced the same thing and who talk and joke about it.
Results: It really sinks in that 1) yes, it's a real phenomenon, (despite the input from people saying that could never happen in the SF Bay Area) 2) It really IS the other person being an idiot, 3) Sensible, intelligent people don't view the world that way.
Basically, try to surround yourself with enough sensible, intelligent minorities that their input overwhelms the racist input. I don't know if sympathetic non-minorities would be helpful, since their experience won't be the same, but I could be wrong.
I would be inclined to mention these incidents to my co-workers, etc, just to raise awareness, but YMMV.
And yes, quit reading Vogue. Those magazines are designed to give everyone a complex in order to sell product.
posted by small_ruminant at 12:41 PM on October 11, 2010 [2 favorites]
Leedly is wise. Many people have already suggested moving out of Holland to somewhere less racist, which I think is probably a good idea for your mental health and self-esteem in the long term. But if that's not a possibility for you in the near future, what about spending some time in the Philippines?
I'm east Asian, but I was born and raised in Toronto. This meant that I always had Asian classmates, and access to Asian food and culture, but I still felt, in various ways, the impact of being a minority. I remember being a child and really zeroing in on any Asian person I saw on tv, since it was so rare (and still is, really). Also, being a teenager and trying to learn how to do my eye make-up from Seventeen magazine. You can't apply eyeshadow in the crease when you have none! But a few years ago I spent a year teaching English in South Korea. I didn't realize it until I left, but living in a culture where I was the norm had a pretty significant effect on me. Clothes were marketed to people who looked like me. Make-up was meant to be worn on someone with my colouring. Almost every advertisement had someone who was Asian in it. It was subtle, but I really think it changed the way I felt about myself. (I also remember right after my contract was up in Korea, I travelled through Russia. It was a total shock seeing myself reflected in a window on the streets of Moscow between two tall blonde Russian women. I felt like a moon-faced midget!)
With no offence to the posters who have posted above, ignore people who tell you that Asian women are hot and attractive. You are hot and attractive, and an intelligent person. You live in a racist society, and they're reflecting an ugly image back to you. It's false. Just try to keep remembering that.
posted by Rora at 6:14 PM on October 11, 2010 [8 favorites]
I'm east Asian, but I was born and raised in Toronto. This meant that I always had Asian classmates, and access to Asian food and culture, but I still felt, in various ways, the impact of being a minority. I remember being a child and really zeroing in on any Asian person I saw on tv, since it was so rare (and still is, really). Also, being a teenager and trying to learn how to do my eye make-up from Seventeen magazine. You can't apply eyeshadow in the crease when you have none! But a few years ago I spent a year teaching English in South Korea. I didn't realize it until I left, but living in a culture where I was the norm had a pretty significant effect on me. Clothes were marketed to people who looked like me. Make-up was meant to be worn on someone with my colouring. Almost every advertisement had someone who was Asian in it. It was subtle, but I really think it changed the way I felt about myself. (I also remember right after my contract was up in Korea, I travelled through Russia. It was a total shock seeing myself reflected in a window on the streets of Moscow between two tall blonde Russian women. I felt like a moon-faced midget!)
With no offence to the posters who have posted above, ignore people who tell you that Asian women are hot and attractive. You are hot and attractive, and an intelligent person. You live in a racist society, and they're reflecting an ugly image back to you. It's false. Just try to keep remembering that.
posted by Rora at 6:14 PM on October 11, 2010 [8 favorites]
But if that's not a possibility for you in the near future, what about spending some time in the Philippines?
i love the rest of Rora's comment, but this is pretty bad advice. note that filipino standards of beauty are essential western because of centuries as a spanish colony and even more centuries of race mixing, so most of the men and women considered beautiful in the philippines have light skin, big eyes and pointy noses and many successful actors/models are half or a quarter white. it's sadly incredibly common for filipinos growing up and living in the philippines to feel inferior or told (even by their own families!) that they are because they look ethnically filipino.
amsterdam sounds extra terrible but it's only half your problem and therefore moving away from there is only half the solution—for minorities, there really is safety in numbers. i'm sorry that i can't tell you how to love yourself more, there's no blueprint for making it happen, but it's something you're going have to learn to do anyway because you're not making it any easier for anyone to find your inner beauty attractive when you're so uncomfortable with your exterior. honestly: no one's attractive to everyone, not even the most aryan-looking supermodels*. no one's sense of humor is to funny to everyone. no chef's best dish is to everyone's taste. you can only be yourself and not everyone's going to like you, and that's okay.
*seriously, i live in nyc and see a lot of them in person, and some of them for reals look like aliens! none of my guy friends would ever have boners for some of those girls.
posted by lia at 3:31 PM on October 12, 2010 [1 favorite]
i love the rest of Rora's comment, but this is pretty bad advice. note that filipino standards of beauty are essential western because of centuries as a spanish colony and even more centuries of race mixing, so most of the men and women considered beautiful in the philippines have light skin, big eyes and pointy noses and many successful actors/models are half or a quarter white. it's sadly incredibly common for filipinos growing up and living in the philippines to feel inferior or told (even by their own families!) that they are because they look ethnically filipino.
amsterdam sounds extra terrible but it's only half your problem and therefore moving away from there is only half the solution—for minorities, there really is safety in numbers. i'm sorry that i can't tell you how to love yourself more, there's no blueprint for making it happen, but it's something you're going have to learn to do anyway because you're not making it any easier for anyone to find your inner beauty attractive when you're so uncomfortable with your exterior. honestly: no one's attractive to everyone, not even the most aryan-looking supermodels*. no one's sense of humor is to funny to everyone. no chef's best dish is to everyone's taste. you can only be yourself and not everyone's going to like you, and that's okay.
*seriously, i live in nyc and see a lot of them in person, and some of them for reals look like aliens! none of my guy friends would ever have boners for some of those girls.
posted by lia at 3:31 PM on October 12, 2010 [1 favorite]
I was reading this, and there was another person (without knowing what I was reading) stating her opinion about Metafilter... Do you wanna know what she thought?
"Do you know what is the problem with the people on Metafilter? I think that they are generally very smart, and thus tend to over think things".
Most people on the street are far too clueless to even think about those things.
My conclusion is
a) clever i.e. IQ above average
b) able to observe things from different angles
c) thoughtful and empathetic towards other people
= Way too much time spent thinking what those morons think, who are not able to respond to you in a similar manner.
So, the natural conclusion is: You are just a part of the winning team :)
posted by Doggiebreath at 3:37 PM on October 16, 2010
"Do you know what is the problem with the people on Metafilter? I think that they are generally very smart, and thus tend to over think things".
Most people on the street are far too clueless to even think about those things.
My conclusion is
a) clever i.e. IQ above average
b) able to observe things from different angles
c) thoughtful and empathetic towards other people
= Way too much time spent thinking what those morons think, who are not able to respond to you in a similar manner.
So, the natural conclusion is: You are just a part of the winning team :)
posted by Doggiebreath at 3:37 PM on October 16, 2010
Holy smokes, what a riot....Great answers, all of you. I'm really glad I joined mefi, because at times, I could probably be forgiven for thinking the world is irredeemable.
As for you, young lady, I can't much improve on some of the stupendous advice given here, except to give you another point of view, only this one from an older, white guy who was born and raised in Puerto Rico and had to repeat incessantly, that I WASN'T from New York...
To add to the hilarity of the situation, I'm tall. Like, head and shoulders above the vast and overwhelming majority of Puerto Ricans on planet earth tall. So, naturally, I would get the usual, "do you play basketball?"routine....Until I began telling people, "no, do you play miniature golf?". My point being that you are sharp and certainly can devise a thought-provoking response that will, hopefully, separate the wheat from the chaff, and eventually rope in a coterie of friends and acquaintances who see your soul and nothing else....
I'm seeing a Chinese woman who has a very masculine voice, looks vaguely Pilipina and I immediately set her angers and anxieties aside by proposing how much fun she could have at all the ignoramuses' expense with those qualities, if needed. She is now a very, very good friend.
Food for thought. I once met a fellow and, in conversation, felt I'd said something to insult him, and told him so, apologizing profusely. He was blase, adding,"I've been insulted by experts.", a phrase which, while rather zen in it's simplicity and import, has become a cornerstone in my dealings with all humans. It's all in how you react to something that determines the outcome.....
As the Arabic saying goes, "The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.".
posted by girdyerloins at 6:09 PM on October 28, 2010
As for you, young lady, I can't much improve on some of the stupendous advice given here, except to give you another point of view, only this one from an older, white guy who was born and raised in Puerto Rico and had to repeat incessantly, that I WASN'T from New York...
To add to the hilarity of the situation, I'm tall. Like, head and shoulders above the vast and overwhelming majority of Puerto Ricans on planet earth tall. So, naturally, I would get the usual, "do you play basketball?"routine....Until I began telling people, "no, do you play miniature golf?". My point being that you are sharp and certainly can devise a thought-provoking response that will, hopefully, separate the wheat from the chaff, and eventually rope in a coterie of friends and acquaintances who see your soul and nothing else....
I'm seeing a Chinese woman who has a very masculine voice, looks vaguely Pilipina and I immediately set her angers and anxieties aside by proposing how much fun she could have at all the ignoramuses' expense with those qualities, if needed. She is now a very, very good friend.
Food for thought. I once met a fellow and, in conversation, felt I'd said something to insult him, and told him so, apologizing profusely. He was blase, adding,"I've been insulted by experts.", a phrase which, while rather zen in it's simplicity and import, has become a cornerstone in my dealings with all humans. It's all in how you react to something that determines the outcome.....
As the Arabic saying goes, "The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.".
posted by girdyerloins at 6:09 PM on October 28, 2010
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posted by bolognius maximus at 12:57 PM on October 10, 2010 [2 favorites]