MMA & 2-year-olds
June 21, 2010 6:11 AM Subscribe
Watching MMA fighting is not appropriate for a 2-year-old, right?
About once a month, my wife & I have our 2-year-old son stay overnight with her mom. (My wife's mom is divorced from my wife's dad, and remarried to a nice enough fellow, and we consider him an additional grandpa.)
For the most part, the visits are a win-win-win:
1. we get a night off to hang out by ourselves (or with friends) or get something done around the house
2. my mother-in-law loves these visits (in fact, requests more)
3. my son loves hanging out with his grandma & additional grandpa
Until recently, the only small downside was dealing with the seemingly obligatory grandma-spoiling of too many sweets and not enough sleep, which manifests itself over the next few days of nastier-than-usual diapers & a bit of crankiness from being over-tired his first night back home. We chalk this up to the normal grandparent treatment and deal with it.
My son stayed with them this weekend. When we picked him up yesterday and asked if they had a good time & what did they did, my mother-in-law nonchalanty mentioned that my son and her husband watched an MMA fight the night before. (FYI- now that my son is 2, he has started to become more interested in TV and will watch pretty much any televised sporting event...until now it's been football, baseball, basketball, hockey, soccer, golf.) My wife and I didn't really react at the time.
After we got home & my son was in bed, I asked my wife if she thought MMA was appropriate for a 2-year-old. She said of course not, and her mom wouldn't find it appropriate either. However, her husband probably doesn't care, they have small house with nowhere else to hang out but in living room, and her mom is simply not assertive enough to stand up to her husband.
My wife's basic stance is if I find this that troubling, I have to be the one to talk to her mom and mom's husband.
So...
Do I make this a battle I pick or downplay MMA viewing to the level of too much candy once a month?
I'm leaning to the former but want to get your thoughts. Any advice on the conversation (content, tone, etc.)?
About once a month, my wife & I have our 2-year-old son stay overnight with her mom. (My wife's mom is divorced from my wife's dad, and remarried to a nice enough fellow, and we consider him an additional grandpa.)
For the most part, the visits are a win-win-win:
1. we get a night off to hang out by ourselves (or with friends) or get something done around the house
2. my mother-in-law loves these visits (in fact, requests more)
3. my son loves hanging out with his grandma & additional grandpa
Until recently, the only small downside was dealing with the seemingly obligatory grandma-spoiling of too many sweets and not enough sleep, which manifests itself over the next few days of nastier-than-usual diapers & a bit of crankiness from being over-tired his first night back home. We chalk this up to the normal grandparent treatment and deal with it.
My son stayed with them this weekend. When we picked him up yesterday and asked if they had a good time & what did they did, my mother-in-law nonchalanty mentioned that my son and her husband watched an MMA fight the night before. (FYI- now that my son is 2, he has started to become more interested in TV and will watch pretty much any televised sporting event...until now it's been football, baseball, basketball, hockey, soccer, golf.) My wife and I didn't really react at the time.
After we got home & my son was in bed, I asked my wife if she thought MMA was appropriate for a 2-year-old. She said of course not, and her mom wouldn't find it appropriate either. However, her husband probably doesn't care, they have small house with nowhere else to hang out but in living room, and her mom is simply not assertive enough to stand up to her husband.
My wife's basic stance is if I find this that troubling, I have to be the one to talk to her mom and mom's husband.
So...
Do I make this a battle I pick or downplay MMA viewing to the level of too much candy once a month?
I'm leaning to the former but want to get your thoughts. Any advice on the conversation (content, tone, etc.)?
Unless it's affecting his behavior, I think you should let it slide.
But I also think it's unfair that your wife has made this totally your deal. Anything that makes either one of you uncomfortable should be an issue for you as a couple, and your wife should be willing to step up to the plate for you with her parents.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 6:19 AM on June 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
But I also think it's unfair that your wife has made this totally your deal. Anything that makes either one of you uncomfortable should be an issue for you as a couple, and your wife should be willing to step up to the plate for you with her parents.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 6:19 AM on June 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
There are two year olds who are at this very moment grappling with their wrestling/jiu-jitsu coach fathers and older brothers, and even they will turn out normal, balanced, and healthy. Don't worry about it. Watching the evening news is probably worse, all things considered.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 6:20 AM on June 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 6:20 AM on June 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Your instincts are right, address this with the grandparents. The most obvious worry may be that this drives your son to imitate what he sees and be violent with others, but a lesson I've learned as a parent (the hard way) is that images like these can just as easily manifest in the form of nightmares . And at two years old, that's too much of a burden to place on him. I'd approach your in-laws directly and respectfully, and just say "hey, I'm not really comfortable with this, if that's on TV do you mind if Grandma sits with him in the kitchen and does a puzzle or something?"
posted by brandman at 6:20 AM on June 21, 2010
posted by brandman at 6:20 AM on June 21, 2010
I think you just need to reinforce the context of "sport" around MMA to your son if he tries to emulate the moves. Plenty of kids start taking martial arts lessons at 3 and 4 without turning into violent maniacs because instructors teach them that the skills are for self defense / regulated competition, not backyard shenanigans.
posted by WeekendJen at 6:23 AM on June 21, 2010
posted by WeekendJen at 6:23 AM on June 21, 2010
Unless they're letting the kid juggle kitchen knives and stick his tongue in electrical outlets, I would forget it and focus on being grateful as all get-out for the overnight baby sitter.
/parent of two year old & big believer in overnights with Grandma and Grandpa.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 6:26 AM on June 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
/parent of two year old & big believer in overnights with Grandma and Grandpa.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 6:26 AM on June 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
Until recently, the only small downside was dealing with the seemingly obligatory grandma-spoiling of too many sweets and not enough sleep, which manifests itself over the next few days of nastier-than-usual diapers & a bit of crankiness from being over-tired his first night back home. We chalk this up to the normal grandparent treatment and deal with it.
It's your kid, so you and your wife need to decide which battles to pick. But out of 1) too many sweets; 2) not enough sleep; 3) watching MMA ... I'd personally put the sleep issue at the top of the priority list and the MMA at the bottom. I know it seems like your son is watching the fighting closely, but it's likely he's just enjoying the moving colors more than learning that hitting is good. A stable sleep pattern, on the other hand, is really important for kids IMO and if if I was gonna have a talk with the grandparents, that's the issue I would pick.
posted by and hosted from Uranus at 6:36 AM on June 21, 2010
It's your kid, so you and your wife need to decide which battles to pick. But out of 1) too many sweets; 2) not enough sleep; 3) watching MMA ... I'd personally put the sleep issue at the top of the priority list and the MMA at the bottom. I know it seems like your son is watching the fighting closely, but it's likely he's just enjoying the moving colors more than learning that hitting is good. A stable sleep pattern, on the other hand, is really important for kids IMO and if if I was gonna have a talk with the grandparents, that's the issue I would pick.
posted by and hosted from Uranus at 6:36 AM on June 21, 2010
Before someone jumps on here and says "hey, you're already letting him watch hockey, that's violent enough"... I'm a pretty big hockey fan. My 16 month old's gone to some games with us, and watches it on TV. But hockey fights and hits, at least to me, are theatrical. Rarely does anyone in a fight get seriously hurt, usually you can see them laughing it up afterwards. There usually isn't even one per game, and they're over in a punch or two, and some grabbing and tumbling.
In contrast, the first time I saw a real fight in a street, I got sick to my stomach and turned away. Same with MMA - I get grossed out by the fighting and I'd never voluntarily watch it.
I'd probably just ask them nicely if they could, in future, not watch MMA with him around. And your wife needs to nut up, as it were, and ask along with you. I would never make my husband confront my mother about something we BOTH found a little innapropriate for our son to be doing.
posted by kpht at 6:40 AM on June 21, 2010
In contrast, the first time I saw a real fight in a street, I got sick to my stomach and turned away. Same with MMA - I get grossed out by the fighting and I'd never voluntarily watch it.
I'd probably just ask them nicely if they could, in future, not watch MMA with him around. And your wife needs to nut up, as it were, and ask along with you. I would never make my husband confront my mother about something we BOTH found a little innapropriate for our son to be doing.
posted by kpht at 6:40 AM on June 21, 2010
Football is a violent sport; not as violent as MMA, but people are getting brutalized on the field.It may actually be violent but it doesn't look violent with all that padding. You don't watch a football game and think 'ooh, look at those people getting beat up'. It's only when you look at long-term injuries and so on that you realize how bad it actually is.
If you're in the boat of violence = bad for young children (I am), you may want to re-visit whether or not you want your kid emulating the moves he sees on the gridiron too.
posted by delmoi at 6:45 AM on June 21, 2010
It's not appropriate ideally, but no one in MMA dies or gets seriously hurt. It's not extreme enough to worry about at that frequency, especially if you think it will be hard to discuss. If he was spending a couple of nights a week watching MMA with grandpa, it would be time to worry. But even then I would be more concerned about too much TV, not the specific content.
posted by Mayor Curley at 6:50 AM on June 21, 2010
posted by Mayor Curley at 6:50 AM on June 21, 2010
I'd be a little more concerned about the family dynamic in which neither your wife nor her mother is willing to call out Grandpa. If your son will see his grandparents often, that could lead to all sorts of things that none of you approve of but won't be able to put your foot down on. Unvoiced disapproval is effectively the same as approval.
As for MMA itself, it's a little bloodier than boxing. I don't think I'd let a 2-year-old watch. I'd let an older kid watch if he really insisted on it, but I'd insist on being in the room too. The good thing about MMA is that there are quite a few fighters who are great sportsmen - they'll high-five or hug after the fight, and talk about how skilled their opponent was and what an honor it was to be in the cage with him - but 2 years old is probably too young to pick up on that aspect of the sport.
posted by Metroid Baby at 6:53 AM on June 21, 2010
As for MMA itself, it's a little bloodier than boxing. I don't think I'd let a 2-year-old watch. I'd let an older kid watch if he really insisted on it, but I'd insist on being in the room too. The good thing about MMA is that there are quite a few fighters who are great sportsmen - they'll high-five or hug after the fight, and talk about how skilled their opponent was and what an honor it was to be in the cage with him - but 2 years old is probably too young to pick up on that aspect of the sport.
posted by Metroid Baby at 6:53 AM on June 21, 2010
One of the best memories I have of my Poppie is of him watching Saturday afternoon wrestling back in the 60s. He would bang on the arms of his easy-chair and yell at the little black and white tv. My wife remembers sitting with her grandmother, doing the same thing. I think wrestling was pretty big in Quebec. As far as any of us were concerned, it was absolutely real.
I've been kind to animals, against war and kept out of trouble since then. All young mammals engage in mock violence, so I think it's important to our development. I think it's silly to censor cartoons for violence.
What I find really offensive is the soft-pedaling of torture in a lot of modern shows; hanging the bad guys out a window or beating information out of them. I've noticed it get more and more mainstream over the years and it creeps me out. I don't have a problem with violence but I have have a problem with cruelty. MMA matches are stopped the second one contestant is unable to defend himself.
posted by bonobothegreat at 6:55 AM on June 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
I've been kind to animals, against war and kept out of trouble since then. All young mammals engage in mock violence, so I think it's important to our development. I think it's silly to censor cartoons for violence.
What I find really offensive is the soft-pedaling of torture in a lot of modern shows; hanging the bad guys out a window or beating information out of them. I've noticed it get more and more mainstream over the years and it creeps me out. I don't have a problem with violence but I have have a problem with cruelty. MMA matches are stopped the second one contestant is unable to defend himself.
posted by bonobothegreat at 6:55 AM on June 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
...uh, just to clarify myself, I don't mean to say that everybody in Quebec thought wrestling was real (just us four).
posted by bonobothegreat at 6:59 AM on June 21, 2010
posted by bonobothegreat at 6:59 AM on June 21, 2010
Best answer: Any advice on the conversation (content, tone, etc.)?
I'd talk to Grandpa directly and make it about your kid's age rather than the content. Like, "Junior is going to be so psyched to watch this stuff with you in a few years, but we don't want him watching MMA or any kind of fighting competition until he's old enough to understand that the guys in the ring are following rules and that it's not ok for him to practice those moves on the kids in daycare." It doesn't have to be judgmental at all, just a clarification of your parenting choices--like, "Oh by the way, we don't do this with Junior yet. Nothing wrong with it in general, we just think he's too young right now." Because obviously, Grandpa likes MMA and you're not likely to get anywhere with him by talking about how inappropriate and violent it is as a whole, but framing it as an age-appropriateness issue might gain some traction.
I do think your wife should be handling this, or at least should be willing to engage the issue, since it's her family, but that's another issue. In order to solve the immediate problem of having your 2-year-old watching content you don't think is appropriate for him, I'd bypass the weird family stuff going on with your wife and her mom and just talk to Grandpa about it.
posted by Meg_Murry at 7:13 AM on June 21, 2010 [4 favorites]
I'd talk to Grandpa directly and make it about your kid's age rather than the content. Like, "Junior is going to be so psyched to watch this stuff with you in a few years, but we don't want him watching MMA or any kind of fighting competition until he's old enough to understand that the guys in the ring are following rules and that it's not ok for him to practice those moves on the kids in daycare." It doesn't have to be judgmental at all, just a clarification of your parenting choices--like, "Oh by the way, we don't do this with Junior yet. Nothing wrong with it in general, we just think he's too young right now." Because obviously, Grandpa likes MMA and you're not likely to get anywhere with him by talking about how inappropriate and violent it is as a whole, but framing it as an age-appropriateness issue might gain some traction.
I do think your wife should be handling this, or at least should be willing to engage the issue, since it's her family, but that's another issue. In order to solve the immediate problem of having your 2-year-old watching content you don't think is appropriate for him, I'd bypass the weird family stuff going on with your wife and her mom and just talk to Grandpa about it.
posted by Meg_Murry at 7:13 AM on June 21, 2010 [4 favorites]
I'd be a little more concerned about the family dynamic in which neither your wife nor her mother is willing to call out Grandpa.
Old people are dicks about stuff, sometimes (okay, often). It's undoubtedly going to come up in the future, but you have to decide how to react on a case-by-case basis. Knowing how to pick your battles is pretty crucial to dealing with family members of a specific temperament, especially if they're tending towards elderly. Setting a precedent isn't necessarily helpful-- old people often don't take to correction very well. I'd save it for when I really needed it.
posted by Mayor Curley at 7:18 AM on June 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
Old people are dicks about stuff, sometimes (okay, often). It's undoubtedly going to come up in the future, but you have to decide how to react on a case-by-case basis. Knowing how to pick your battles is pretty crucial to dealing with family members of a specific temperament, especially if they're tending towards elderly. Setting a precedent isn't necessarily helpful-- old people often don't take to correction very well. I'd save it for when I really needed it.
posted by Mayor Curley at 7:18 AM on June 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
There are two year olds who are at this very moment grappling with their wrestling/jiu-jitsu coach fathers and older brothers, and even they will turn out normal, balanced, and healthy.
Purely anecdotal, but this is exactly how two of my nephews grew up. They are now firefighters and save lives.
posted by JanetLand at 7:23 AM on June 21, 2010
Purely anecdotal, but this is exactly how two of my nephews grew up. They are now firefighters and save lives.
posted by JanetLand at 7:23 AM on June 21, 2010
If you've just wandered in here, confused and wondering what this is all about, MMA stands for Mixed Martial Arts.
posted by Rash at 8:17 AM on June 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by Rash at 8:17 AM on June 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
The violence in hockey or football is incidental to the game (well, more or less). MMA is strictly violence. At 2 years old a kid is basically sponging up every human interaction it can and maybe spitting them back out, maybe just letting them sit in there for reference. At any rate, for me, it would absolutely be worth an uncomfortable conversation (or finding a different babysitter) to see that my two year old was not spending hours watching people do awful things to each other.
posted by dirtdirt at 10:07 AM on June 21, 2010
posted by dirtdirt at 10:07 AM on June 21, 2010
Those guys are beating the tar out of each other. Frequently they end up covered in each others blood. This is not the same as football, and not something a 2 year old or even a 12 year old should be watching.
posted by Jupiter Jones at 10:52 AM on June 21, 2010
posted by Jupiter Jones at 10:52 AM on June 21, 2010
I'm 25, and just watching MMA promos sickens me. I used to watch WWF with my dad when I was the same age as your child, up until I was probably seven or eight, but it was always so theatrical and ridiculous and my dad was constantly laughing. Even still, I did not fully understand that it was pretty much all acting until I was much older and no longer watching it.
This stuff is different. These guys are kicking, punching, hurling, throwing, jumping on each other's backs and whacking them in the head. This is not standard stuff, this isn't the kind of thing kids have lessons for after school. This isn't what they're watching their older siblings do. You can't actually tell if these guys are looking out for each other or not, and blood is [contains semi-graphic photos] involved often enough that even cable has questioned showing it.
I favorited Meg_Murry's comment because I think it does need to be addressed, and that your wife needs to be involved. Perhaps he just doesn't realize how much of a sponge a child at that age really is.
posted by june made him a gemini at 1:17 PM on June 21, 2010
This stuff is different. These guys are kicking, punching, hurling, throwing, jumping on each other's backs and whacking them in the head. This is not standard stuff, this isn't the kind of thing kids have lessons for after school. This isn't what they're watching their older siblings do. You can't actually tell if these guys are looking out for each other or not, and blood is [contains semi-graphic photos] involved often enough that even cable has questioned showing it.
I favorited Meg_Murry's comment because I think it does need to be addressed, and that your wife needs to be involved. Perhaps he just doesn't realize how much of a sponge a child at that age really is.
posted by june made him a gemini at 1:17 PM on June 21, 2010
Response by poster: Thanks, all!
I plan on discussing this with my wife tonight.
posted by glenngulia at 1:28 PM on June 21, 2010
I plan on discussing this with my wife tonight.
posted by glenngulia at 1:28 PM on June 21, 2010
There are two year olds who are at this very moment grappling with their wrestling/jiu-jitsu coach fathers and older brothers,
I playfight with my daughter - in an exercise of applied feminism she has her own sword, shield, and wooden axe. She's quite clear on the concept of playfights, and when she's old enough I'll see if she likes judo, too. There's a big difference, to my mind, between participating in something where you learn, in consultation with a responsible adult, where the boundaries are, what works, what doesn't, and the fact that you're doing something that can have serious consequences if it goes wrong, and simply showing a kid agressive, often bloody, uncontexualized fighting.
At best it's scary, and at worst the kid will simply pick up the idea that this is a fun thing to try without having any clue why trying to choke his little buddy really isn't a good idea. I introduced my daughter to movies with mock violence (like Shrek) long after I was happy introducing her to actual play fighting.
posted by rodgerd at 2:24 AM on June 22, 2010
I playfight with my daughter - in an exercise of applied feminism she has her own sword, shield, and wooden axe. She's quite clear on the concept of playfights, and when she's old enough I'll see if she likes judo, too. There's a big difference, to my mind, between participating in something where you learn, in consultation with a responsible adult, where the boundaries are, what works, what doesn't, and the fact that you're doing something that can have serious consequences if it goes wrong, and simply showing a kid agressive, often bloody, uncontexualized fighting.
At best it's scary, and at worst the kid will simply pick up the idea that this is a fun thing to try without having any clue why trying to choke his little buddy really isn't a good idea. I introduced my daughter to movies with mock violence (like Shrek) long after I was happy introducing her to actual play fighting.
posted by rodgerd at 2:24 AM on June 22, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
If you're in the boat of violence = bad for young children (I am), you may want to re-visit whether or not you want your kid emulating the moves he sees on the gridiron too.
posted by Hiker at 6:18 AM on June 21, 2010