Should I marry my recovering alcoholic?
February 10, 2010 10:18 PM Subscribe
I've been dating a recovering alcoholic- for nine months. We've talked about marriage. We love each other very much. He's never been abusive or even raised his voice to me. In his past, he was a hard drinker and drug addict. He was drinking when we first got together, but I didn't know it was a problem. Seemed like your garden variety social drinking- although it did seem strange to me that once when I was held up for an hour at dinner time, he drank the whole bottle of dinner wine waiting for me.
At one point when we were apart for a month, he drank at a sports bar and someone obviously called the police on him because when he put his key in the ignition, five cop cars showed up. He said it was his first DUI. This seems to have been a wake up call for him. He hasn't touched a drop since- four months- that I know of. He's sleeping better now than at any time since I've known him. Has also stopped smoking. He's getting ready to open a business (he's a retired corporate exec) and wants to build a life with me. Although he seems to be more talk than substance on that front. And he's done a couple of strange things, like sabotage my plans for his birthday. I'm feeling really cautious and nervous. I'm afraid I'll come home one day, in five years, maybe ten, and the blinds will be drawn and he'll be wasted. I don't have any experience with this at all. He can't help the cards he was dealt, but am I a fool if I deal these cards to myself?
At one point when we were apart for a month, he drank at a sports bar and someone obviously called the police on him because when he put his key in the ignition, five cop cars showed up. He said it was his first DUI. This seems to have been a wake up call for him. He hasn't touched a drop since- four months- that I know of. He's sleeping better now than at any time since I've known him. Has also stopped smoking. He's getting ready to open a business (he's a retired corporate exec) and wants to build a life with me. Although he seems to be more talk than substance on that front. And he's done a couple of strange things, like sabotage my plans for his birthday. I'm feeling really cautious and nervous. I'm afraid I'll come home one day, in five years, maybe ten, and the blinds will be drawn and he'll be wasted. I don't have any experience with this at all. He can't help the cards he was dealt, but am I a fool if I deal these cards to myself?
Response by poster: He did the twelve steps before he moved here from the east coast a year and a half ago. He's talking about going back to AA but hasn't attended a meeting yet.
Instinctively, the scenario you describe is my worst fear.
posted by lucvioa at 10:29 PM on February 10, 2010
Instinctively, the scenario you describe is my worst fear.
posted by lucvioa at 10:29 PM on February 10, 2010
I'm afraid I'll come home one day, in five years, maybe ten, and the blinds will be drawn and he'll be wasted.
I'm not an expert but I don't think a relapse like that immediately undoes the benefits of those 5 or 10 years of being sober, and if he's able to live happily sober now I think having a stumble like that down the road - while you can't prevent it from ever happening - is still better than being with someone who doesn't acknowledge having a problem.
If you keep things honest and open between yourselves then you will be able to face this challenge together. Did you ask why he did what he did about his birthday and get a satisfactory answer? Letting little bits of dishonesty and suspicion go unaddressed is a problem with or without the shadow of a drinking problem behind it.
posted by Space Coyote at 10:29 PM on February 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
I'm not an expert but I don't think a relapse like that immediately undoes the benefits of those 5 or 10 years of being sober, and if he's able to live happily sober now I think having a stumble like that down the road - while you can't prevent it from ever happening - is still better than being with someone who doesn't acknowledge having a problem.
If you keep things honest and open between yourselves then you will be able to face this challenge together. Did you ask why he did what he did about his birthday and get a satisfactory answer? Letting little bits of dishonesty and suspicion go unaddressed is a problem with or without the shadow of a drinking problem behind it.
posted by Space Coyote at 10:29 PM on February 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
You've known him for nine months, and he's only been dry for four months. I think it's a little premature to be having the marriage talk already if you have all these reservations about him.
posted by MaryDellamorte at 10:33 PM on February 10, 2010 [14 favorites]
posted by MaryDellamorte at 10:33 PM on February 10, 2010 [14 favorites]
IMHO, 9 months is too soon to contemplate marriage with anyone. Or, at least, to take concrete steps toward effectuating contemplation. When sobriety is only of four months standing and if you already have these anxieties, I would wait, wait, wait a little bit longer, wait and then wait some more.
Sobriety is a challenge.
Starting a business is a challenge.
Marriage is a challenge.
That's too many challenges at once. Something will likely have to give. Which do you think it's likely to be?
Do the man a favor and take one challenge - marriage - off the plate (not said to imply at all that you are driving the marriage plans or pestering, just that you should slow it down). Life doesn't get easier when you're married. Marriage is a wonderful thing, but it means compromise, hard relationship work, and self-sacrifice. By no means am I saying he'll never be marriage material, but given that many challenges at once my humble advice is to emotionally support him and treat him kindly as he works through the challenges of still-new sobriety and a new business. If all that is going well after a year or so, marry.
posted by bunnycup at 10:37 PM on February 10, 2010 [7 favorites]
Sobriety is a challenge.
Starting a business is a challenge.
Marriage is a challenge.
That's too many challenges at once. Something will likely have to give. Which do you think it's likely to be?
Do the man a favor and take one challenge - marriage - off the plate (not said to imply at all that you are driving the marriage plans or pestering, just that you should slow it down). Life doesn't get easier when you're married. Marriage is a wonderful thing, but it means compromise, hard relationship work, and self-sacrifice. By no means am I saying he'll never be marriage material, but given that many challenges at once my humble advice is to emotionally support him and treat him kindly as he works through the challenges of still-new sobriety and a new business. If all that is going well after a year or so, marry.
posted by bunnycup at 10:37 PM on February 10, 2010 [7 favorites]
Response by poster: Well, he says that he can only be sober one day at a time. If he stumbles, he just starts again the next day. He seems to be very happily sober.
Yes, I asked about the birthday thing. It's hard for me to understand because my family was somewhat disfunctional, but holidays and birthdays were occasions for joy and love. He has disappointment and betrayal connected to all of that from his childhood. His father was an alcholic who left his mother and six children.
posted by lucvioa at 10:37 PM on February 10, 2010
Yes, I asked about the birthday thing. It's hard for me to understand because my family was somewhat disfunctional, but holidays and birthdays were occasions for joy and love. He has disappointment and betrayal connected to all of that from his childhood. His father was an alcholic who left his mother and six children.
posted by lucvioa at 10:37 PM on February 10, 2010
There's a whole wealth of emotional and psychological and other issues that often go along with alcoholism. Simply removing the alcohol from the equation is not enough. What is he doing to address the rest? In what ways has he looked out for you and your concerns about his alcoholism? And your role in supporting him in his recovery? And your healthy and happy future together?
I'm feeling really cautious and nervous.
This line jumps out at me. These are not the words of someone embarking on a safe, cozy adventure of bliss. I'd say, put in some more time if you want and see what happens. But a LOT can happen in a few years, especially if those few years involve life transitions or dealing with heavy issues. You're in no rush now, so wait and see. And please join Al-anon.
One more thing, this book might be a good starting point for you: Courage to Change
posted by iamkimiam at 10:42 PM on February 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
I'm feeling really cautious and nervous.
This line jumps out at me. These are not the words of someone embarking on a safe, cozy adventure of bliss. I'd say, put in some more time if you want and see what happens. But a LOT can happen in a few years, especially if those few years involve life transitions or dealing with heavy issues. You're in no rush now, so wait and see. And please join Al-anon.
One more thing, this book might be a good starting point for you: Courage to Change
posted by iamkimiam at 10:42 PM on February 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: I'll talk to him about the other issues. In what ways would it be best for him to look out for me and my concerns about his alcoholism? Thanks so much (all of you!) for your good advice.
posted by lucvioa at 10:51 PM on February 10, 2010
posted by lucvioa at 10:51 PM on February 10, 2010
You'll notice a difference if he's truly recovering. Increased appetite, more restful sleep, less shadows under the eyes, clearer eyes without being bloodshot or jaundiced, clearer skin and nails.
The lack of abuse, etc is likely due to using alcohol to self-medicate for anxiety or something.
Alcoholics tend to hide their problem from people they're living with. But, bear in mind, it's useually out of care, not to burden the people they care about with something they think is either no big deal or the opposite.
For some people, AA simply doesn't work. Sitting in a room hearing about other people's problems is focused on the current, not the future -- which is recovery. The ones I've been too are just sounding-boards to express the situation which is usually obviously not a good one. That said, usuallt there's other local support groups for people with addictions.
It's a slippery slope, but as long as he's not an 'angry drunk', abusive, or anything along those lines, worry most about his health, if he is still drinking, or resumes doing do.
It also affects work. You can try to hide the morning drink to steady-up, but even in a cube farm they will at least suspect.
I've experienced advanced alcoholic liver failure. Once it starts to go, so do the other organs. I'm obviously still alive, but spent weeks in ICU unconscious to ensure I stayed that way.
If he can indeed have stopped drinking, that's a great thing. But he shoudl see a doctor to get a med for the "oh man, I need a drink" moments.
If he starts, or is, making odd trips to the store with nothing much to show for it, be more concerned.
Marriage may still not be a bad idea, it seems to have finally straightened-out the black sheep brother of the family, a surprise to myself and my parents.
I can ramble on more, but if you're willing to lend support, and keep an eye for bottles., go ahead. A relapse just puts one back to the start.
- so, some experience in the area unfortunatly
posted by hungrysquirrels at 11:11 PM on February 10, 2010 [5 favorites]
The lack of abuse, etc is likely due to using alcohol to self-medicate for anxiety or something.
Alcoholics tend to hide their problem from people they're living with. But, bear in mind, it's useually out of care, not to burden the people they care about with something they think is either no big deal or the opposite.
For some people, AA simply doesn't work. Sitting in a room hearing about other people's problems is focused on the current, not the future -- which is recovery. The ones I've been too are just sounding-boards to express the situation which is usually obviously not a good one. That said, usuallt there's other local support groups for people with addictions.
It's a slippery slope, but as long as he's not an 'angry drunk', abusive, or anything along those lines, worry most about his health, if he is still drinking, or resumes doing do.
It also affects work. You can try to hide the morning drink to steady-up, but even in a cube farm they will at least suspect.
I've experienced advanced alcoholic liver failure. Once it starts to go, so do the other organs. I'm obviously still alive, but spent weeks in ICU unconscious to ensure I stayed that way.
If he can indeed have stopped drinking, that's a great thing. But he shoudl see a doctor to get a med for the "oh man, I need a drink" moments.
If he starts, or is, making odd trips to the store with nothing much to show for it, be more concerned.
Marriage may still not be a bad idea, it seems to have finally straightened-out the black sheep brother of the family, a surprise to myself and my parents.
I can ramble on more, but if you're willing to lend support, and keep an eye for bottles., go ahead. A relapse just puts one back to the start.
- so, some experience in the area unfortunatly
posted by hungrysquirrels at 11:11 PM on February 10, 2010 [5 favorites]
Well -- I'm married to a former alcoholic who would drink a case of beer or a lot of hard liquor every night (15 years ago). By the time I hooked up with her she was already in AA, staying with it a year but eventually quitting over the faith-based aspects. By this time though she was able to abstain for months except for bona fide special occasions, and she gradually worked in occasional (once a week) drinks, only getting hammered a couple of times during a rough patch years ago though not on the same level as 15 years ago. What's it like now? She only drinks -once- every couple of weeks to relax and have fun, and on nights when I drink she rarely joins me, just doing it if she feels like it. I don't have any worries about her falling back into old habits.
She doesn't buy into the AA "dry drunk" theories, and I believe it. I am certain the key ingredient is a change in lifestyle is what causes a change in the need for alcohol. My wife's lifestyle, hobbies, and place of living are all radically different from what it was 15 years ago, so she is not treading the same ground as back then. So my gut feeling on this is that if your boyfriend is subject to the same stresses, habits, and routines as he was when he was wasted, then I think you have genuine cause for concern (maybe the "dry drunk" concept has some merit here). If the things that make him tick have changed significantly (for example he has a new passion for weightlifting, has different responsibilities at work, and is around different friends), then I think there's hope. So I think that's your litmust test. It will take years though to know for sure.
The bottom line is that there is not a black and white path here and it all comes down to how sharply delineated his interests, responsibilities, and motives compare now to that of the old life.
posted by crapmatic at 11:37 PM on February 10, 2010 [2 favorites]
She doesn't buy into the AA "dry drunk" theories, and I believe it. I am certain the key ingredient is a change in lifestyle is what causes a change in the need for alcohol. My wife's lifestyle, hobbies, and place of living are all radically different from what it was 15 years ago, so she is not treading the same ground as back then. So my gut feeling on this is that if your boyfriend is subject to the same stresses, habits, and routines as he was when he was wasted, then I think you have genuine cause for concern (maybe the "dry drunk" concept has some merit here). If the things that make him tick have changed significantly (for example he has a new passion for weightlifting, has different responsibilities at work, and is around different friends), then I think there's hope. So I think that's your litmust test. It will take years though to know for sure.
The bottom line is that there is not a black and white path here and it all comes down to how sharply delineated his interests, responsibilities, and motives compare now to that of the old life.
posted by crapmatic at 11:37 PM on February 10, 2010 [2 favorites]
You say he did the twelve steps a year and a half ago, but you also say he was drinking when you met nine months ago, and that he had a fairly recent DUI. You say that he's talking about going back to AA but hasn't attended a meeting yet.
These things suggest that he's just in a holding pattern. He's "okay" right now but that's really just a dangerous illusion. He hasn't done anything concrete to make sure he can hold onto his sobriety. He's just winging it and hoping for the best, and that's a recipe for disaster.
I'm not going to tell you to break up with him, but you definitely don't need to be talking marriage yet. You might gain some insight by going to some Al-Anon meetings.
posted by amyms at 11:39 PM on February 10, 2010 [4 favorites]
These things suggest that he's just in a holding pattern. He's "okay" right now but that's really just a dangerous illusion. He hasn't done anything concrete to make sure he can hold onto his sobriety. He's just winging it and hoping for the best, and that's a recipe for disaster.
I'm not going to tell you to break up with him, but you definitely don't need to be talking marriage yet. You might gain some insight by going to some Al-Anon meetings.
posted by amyms at 11:39 PM on February 10, 2010 [4 favorites]
I'm feeling really cautious and nervous... I'm afraid...
Another set of questions you might ask yourself is, why am I flirting with marriage when I'm nervous and fearful? Am I being pressured by someone else? Am I pressuring myself? Is there not a healthier way to respond to that pressure?
Nervous and fearful and fixated on worst-case future scenarios is no way to go into a marriage. Marriage only raises the stakes; it won't ease these fears. The fact is that your worst case scenario is entirely possible, if not likely. Don't set yourself up for something you're not prepared to handle.
posted by jon1270 at 2:01 AM on February 11, 2010
Another set of questions you might ask yourself is, why am I flirting with marriage when I'm nervous and fearful? Am I being pressured by someone else? Am I pressuring myself? Is there not a healthier way to respond to that pressure?
Nervous and fearful and fixated on worst-case future scenarios is no way to go into a marriage. Marriage only raises the stakes; it won't ease these fears. The fact is that your worst case scenario is entirely possible, if not likely. Don't set yourself up for something you're not prepared to handle.
posted by jon1270 at 2:01 AM on February 11, 2010
Instinctively, the scenario you describe is my worst fear.
This is a really, really important detail, and I would pay close attention to these instincts.
posted by sarahsynonymous at 2:11 AM on February 11, 2010
This is a really, really important detail, and I would pay close attention to these instincts.
posted by sarahsynonymous at 2:11 AM on February 11, 2010
In making this about him and his issues, you may be setting yourself up to be codependent. Maybe not in the sense that you will call into work if he ever relapses and has to call in "sick," but ask yourself are you capable and willing to invest a lot of time and energy into a relationship someone who sabotaged your birthday? A new love should go out of their way to make your birthday special, and it's really not your fault that he had a hard childhood. He is an adult and has to take responsibility for his feelings if they are messed up from past events. Not you. Him. Don't make excuses like that for anyone, especially someone you've only been dating 9 months. If you had been married 10-20 years, and overall experienced feeling loved and nurtured with a partner, yeah, one bad event is not that big of a deal. But this soon? And rushing into marriage at this stage is also a red flag. Many people can be very charming during the dating stage, then once you're past that and committed to them, they change for the worse. With his past, I'd be cautious about marriage before the 2 year mark.
Trust your gut. Take it slow and easy, and do not, under any circumstances, allow someone to pressure you into a lifelong commitment before you feel 100% comfortable with it. If he really cares about you and your feelings, he will agree to take things slowly while you continue to get to know each other. Starting a business is very stressful, so there are potential triggers there for him. Wait and see what happens before you jump into anything like marriage. If he gets angry or pulls emotional blackmail on you about you wanting to wait, there's your answer right there: no.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 2:35 AM on February 11, 2010
Trust your gut. Take it slow and easy, and do not, under any circumstances, allow someone to pressure you into a lifelong commitment before you feel 100% comfortable with it. If he really cares about you and your feelings, he will agree to take things slowly while you continue to get to know each other. Starting a business is very stressful, so there are potential triggers there for him. Wait and see what happens before you jump into anything like marriage. If he gets angry or pulls emotional blackmail on you about you wanting to wait, there's your answer right there: no.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 2:35 AM on February 11, 2010
(Marie Mon Dieu: It was HIS birthday he "sabotaged", not HERS. Let's not demonise him for thing he hasn't done.)
I agree with the people who think you should tread very cautiously & take the marriage thing slower. There's not need to rush. Don't marry him until you are 100% absolutely sure that he is committed to sobriety & to you and you have NO qualms. Listen to your intuition and do not do go ahead with anything that doesn't feel completely right.
In regards to the birthday sabotage, I would ask him for an explanation. In most situations I would say that someone is entitled to a bit of privacy if they don't want to go into details, but in a situation like this, he needs to earn your full trust by being totally open & honest about why he didn't want a fuss made about his birthday. You don't mention any detail as to what your plans were. Maybe something in your plans caused him anxiety? Maybe the day itself has bad connotations for him due to past events? If he wants you to trust him & feel comfortable moving forward, he needs to disclose what's going through his mind when his behaviour worries you. And it needs to be plausible.
Keep listening to your instincts and trust and follow them. Keep in mind that many dysfunctional people will hide their flaws during the courtship and not reveal their true problems until YEARS into a relationship. I was in a relationship with a mentally ill alcoholic (I knew he suffered depression when we met, he was diagnosed as bi-polar after we'd broken up). He told me he "didn't drink" which i eventually realised actually meant "can't have one drink without then drinking every drop he can get his hands & turn into an obnoxious abusive arsehole." This taught me that what he said often needed to be run through a "truth filter".
You have an idea what your partners demons are. His words need to match his actions. The fact he's given up booze & cigarettes (both cold turkey?) in such a brief period of time is remarkable. I hope with all my heart he can keep it up. I wish both of you all the love, luck & happiness, but always follow your instincts and don't ever make excuses for him.
posted by goshling at 4:02 AM on February 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
I agree with the people who think you should tread very cautiously & take the marriage thing slower. There's not need to rush. Don't marry him until you are 100% absolutely sure that he is committed to sobriety & to you and you have NO qualms. Listen to your intuition and do not do go ahead with anything that doesn't feel completely right.
In regards to the birthday sabotage, I would ask him for an explanation. In most situations I would say that someone is entitled to a bit of privacy if they don't want to go into details, but in a situation like this, he needs to earn your full trust by being totally open & honest about why he didn't want a fuss made about his birthday. You don't mention any detail as to what your plans were. Maybe something in your plans caused him anxiety? Maybe the day itself has bad connotations for him due to past events? If he wants you to trust him & feel comfortable moving forward, he needs to disclose what's going through his mind when his behaviour worries you. And it needs to be plausible.
Keep listening to your instincts and trust and follow them. Keep in mind that many dysfunctional people will hide their flaws during the courtship and not reveal their true problems until YEARS into a relationship. I was in a relationship with a mentally ill alcoholic (I knew he suffered depression when we met, he was diagnosed as bi-polar after we'd broken up). He told me he "didn't drink" which i eventually realised actually meant "can't have one drink without then drinking every drop he can get his hands & turn into an obnoxious abusive arsehole." This taught me that what he said often needed to be run through a "truth filter".
You have an idea what your partners demons are. His words need to match his actions. The fact he's given up booze & cigarettes (both cold turkey?) in such a brief period of time is remarkable. I hope with all my heart he can keep it up. I wish both of you all the love, luck & happiness, but always follow your instincts and don't ever make excuses for him.
posted by goshling at 4:02 AM on February 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
Oh, I was also going to ask if it's possible to check his police/driving record? He says he has just the one DUI? "Someone obviously called the police on him?" That statement sounds odd to me, but maybe that happens where you live.
Even the way it's worded above "He said it was his first DUI". Does that the first time he drove drunk or the first time he got caught? He went to a bar in his car, got wasted & tried to drive home? This in itself would be a deal breaker for me, people just don't do that accidentally. If you plan to go out & drink, you don't drive home. If you've got your car, you don't get drunk. No justifications, no excuses. You say he's a retired corporate executive? Sounds like he's old enough to know better.
Maybe this wake up call is his life changing moment and it' all up from here. You still need reassurance and that's for him to assuage your fears.
posted by goshling at 5:37 AM on February 11, 2010
Even the way it's worded above "He said it was his first DUI". Does that the first time he drove drunk or the first time he got caught? He went to a bar in his car, got wasted & tried to drive home? This in itself would be a deal breaker for me, people just don't do that accidentally. If you plan to go out & drink, you don't drive home. If you've got your car, you don't get drunk. No justifications, no excuses. You say he's a retired corporate executive? Sounds like he's old enough to know better.
Maybe this wake up call is his life changing moment and it' all up from here. You still need reassurance and that's for him to assuage your fears.
posted by goshling at 5:37 AM on February 11, 2010
Response by poster: Thanks everyone for your thoughtful responses. Both of us believe in going through four seasons together before making any major decisions. And that started over with the drinking episode, according to him. He is, in most ways that I think are important at this point, a remarkable individual and the man of my dreams. I agree that it's good to take it slow and keep my eyes open- couples counseling is probably the next step. I have mixed responses from my friends and family- so it is very enlightening to get feedback from folks with some experience with this who can help me see what it looks like on the face of things. Thank you!!
posted by lucvioa at 5:45 AM on February 11, 2010
posted by lucvioa at 5:45 AM on February 11, 2010
I have mixed responses from my friends and family
This is really important, since they KNOW you (and presumably him). We don't. Listen to people that know you both. My family and friends were all OMG HE'S THE ONE when they first met my husband - no equivocation. You said your family's sort of dysfunctional, but you should be able to trust your friends.
At one point when we were apart for a month
You've only been dating nine months and you've already broken up for a month? And you're talking about marriage? *scratches head*
Sorry, but I think your instincts are off, hence my advice above to lean on your friends a bit more. They're not objective either, but at least they're biased in your direction.
posted by desjardins at 9:42 AM on February 11, 2010
This is really important, since they KNOW you (and presumably him). We don't. Listen to people that know you both. My family and friends were all OMG HE'S THE ONE when they first met my husband - no equivocation. You said your family's sort of dysfunctional, but you should be able to trust your friends.
At one point when we were apart for a month
You've only been dating nine months and you've already broken up for a month? And you're talking about marriage? *scratches head*
Sorry, but I think your instincts are off, hence my advice above to lean on your friends a bit more. They're not objective either, but at least they're biased in your direction.
posted by desjardins at 9:42 AM on February 11, 2010
I agree with folks who are saying, it's fine to think about committment but too early to plunge yet. One thing that I notice is that you feel nervous and scared about what might happen. But you don't seem to have talked to him about that. Alcoholism is a chronic disease, that needs to be managed on a daily basis, like Type 1 diabetes. It's not always easy. Sometimes, the alcoholic may fail to appropriately manage it.
That doesn't mean alcoholics should isolate themselves. But it is something it's important to be aware of. And if you're contemplating a long-term partnership, it's something you guys probably want to figure out how to handle together - anticipate some of the obstacles ahead, the impact on you, the impact on him, and the impact on your relationship. I strongly urge you to talk with him about this, and I'd suggest couples counseling. I wouldn't marry someone I feared would destroy my life - especially if I couldn't talk to him about it. The upside is that you may find this is a workable relationship, and you can build good techniques for maintaining it. The downside is you may find it's a bad idea - but I think it's better to find out through honest work than avoidance and silence.
posted by mccn at 9:53 AM on February 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
That doesn't mean alcoholics should isolate themselves. But it is something it's important to be aware of. And if you're contemplating a long-term partnership, it's something you guys probably want to figure out how to handle together - anticipate some of the obstacles ahead, the impact on you, the impact on him, and the impact on your relationship. I strongly urge you to talk with him about this, and I'd suggest couples counseling. I wouldn't marry someone I feared would destroy my life - especially if I couldn't talk to him about it. The upside is that you may find this is a workable relationship, and you can build good techniques for maintaining it. The downside is you may find it's a bad idea - but I think it's better to find out through honest work than avoidance and silence.
posted by mccn at 9:53 AM on February 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
Your "four seasons" process is wise, but I think still a little too hasty.
When I went to my first meeting, someone came up to me and asked if I had any friends, a boyfriend or family I could rely on. I said no. It was me and my dog against the world. I expected him to be disappointed, but instead his face lit up. "Great, then this is going to be a lot easier for you," he said. I didn't understand it then, but I do understand it now: life is hard when you're trying to stop drinking, and a whole lot of the process doesn't make sense. It's even harder when you're trying to do it in the context of other relationships. Those relationships *have* to change along with you. Everyone knows about the oft mythologized "no dating in the first year of recovery" thing. Many people think it is a hard and fast rule; it is not. (Just for clarity: AA has no rules. It merely has suggestions which have worked for other people, and one requirement for membership: a desire to stop drinking. No God, no money, no attendance policy... just a desire to stop drinking.)
No matter what form of recovery he chooses (and that's important - this isn't just an AA thing), the process of recovery from alcoholism is going to be one that requires him to gain a deeper understanding of himself and his drinking. That can be unpleasant, difficult, and shocking. It can also be boring, uninteresting, and relatively stress free. But nobody knows which going into it. (Also, the odds are at least in favor of some sort of difficulty with the process.) This is why I say that the "four seasons" approach to getting to know each other is wise - but still premature. He needs time to get to know himself before he can really spend time getting to know you. And he needs to treat his relationship with himself with the same delicacy and time that he's willing to use in developing your relationship.
I dated when I was newly sober and I had no idea what I was doing. After a year of sobriety, a lot of things changed for me. A lot of things got to be less hard and sober life became a lot more familiar. I had built a group of deeply cherished friends - many of them MeFites. I was able to start recognizing the difference between "nice" and "good" and start making better decisions about my life. And a lot of new issues cropped up for me where dating was concerned - everything from the very mundane [not being able to enjoy a fondue restaurant because of the flavor of the alcohol in the cheese] to the difficult and intimate [not being able to kiss someone who has been drinking because of the taste of alcohol on their breath]. I occasionally had to leave dates that I was on because I simply didn't feel comfortable. It was a big change.
Recovering alcoholics are some of the most thoughtful, careful, straightforward people I have ever met. They are generally in better touch with their emotions (because losing touch with them is dangerous) and they are better about vocalizing what they want and what they need. Recovering alcoholics place high value in setting and respecting appropriate boundaries peacefully and without resentment. Recovering alcoholics tend not to look at obstacles as insurmountable - because once you've come through addiction, things like forclosure on property or losing a job or becoming ill all look rather manageable. Those are qualities that I am looking for in a partner - and qualities that I think most people are looking for in a partner. I would never stop seeing someone based on the specter of potential future troubles with a substance. (After all, when you think about it, that applies to everyone.) I would stop seeing someone with a drinking problem who was not actively addressing it. With the very little information you have provided, it sounds to me like, at this time, your boyfriend *may* be active in addressing his drinking problem. But there are a lot of variables. If I were dating someone who had relapsed recently (that's what it was when he started drinking again when you met him) then my standard for how active they were in their recovery would be much higher than if they had been safe for a long, stable period of time.
Above all else: ask him. Ask him to include you in this process. Ask him to explain to you what he is doing to be healthy. Explain to him that you want to support his healthy decision making - clarify that you NEED to support him in his healthy decision making, and that you CAN'T support him in unhealthy decision making. Explain that you need him to do what is in his best interests, because anything else will work against the prospects for your relationship. And it sounds like that's not what either of you wants. You can only make a good decision about this after you understand where he is in this process and how dedicated he is to being well. And to understand that will take more time.
Take care of yourself lucvioa. There are a lot of resources out there, and here on MetaFilter, if you need help learning more.
posted by greekphilosophy at 11:46 AM on February 11, 2010 [9 favorites]
When I went to my first meeting, someone came up to me and asked if I had any friends, a boyfriend or family I could rely on. I said no. It was me and my dog against the world. I expected him to be disappointed, but instead his face lit up. "Great, then this is going to be a lot easier for you," he said. I didn't understand it then, but I do understand it now: life is hard when you're trying to stop drinking, and a whole lot of the process doesn't make sense. It's even harder when you're trying to do it in the context of other relationships. Those relationships *have* to change along with you. Everyone knows about the oft mythologized "no dating in the first year of recovery" thing. Many people think it is a hard and fast rule; it is not. (Just for clarity: AA has no rules. It merely has suggestions which have worked for other people, and one requirement for membership: a desire to stop drinking. No God, no money, no attendance policy... just a desire to stop drinking.)
No matter what form of recovery he chooses (and that's important - this isn't just an AA thing), the process of recovery from alcoholism is going to be one that requires him to gain a deeper understanding of himself and his drinking. That can be unpleasant, difficult, and shocking. It can also be boring, uninteresting, and relatively stress free. But nobody knows which going into it. (Also, the odds are at least in favor of some sort of difficulty with the process.) This is why I say that the "four seasons" approach to getting to know each other is wise - but still premature. He needs time to get to know himself before he can really spend time getting to know you. And he needs to treat his relationship with himself with the same delicacy and time that he's willing to use in developing your relationship.
I dated when I was newly sober and I had no idea what I was doing. After a year of sobriety, a lot of things changed for me. A lot of things got to be less hard and sober life became a lot more familiar. I had built a group of deeply cherished friends - many of them MeFites. I was able to start recognizing the difference between "nice" and "good" and start making better decisions about my life. And a lot of new issues cropped up for me where dating was concerned - everything from the very mundane [not being able to enjoy a fondue restaurant because of the flavor of the alcohol in the cheese] to the difficult and intimate [not being able to kiss someone who has been drinking because of the taste of alcohol on their breath]. I occasionally had to leave dates that I was on because I simply didn't feel comfortable. It was a big change.
Recovering alcoholics are some of the most thoughtful, careful, straightforward people I have ever met. They are generally in better touch with their emotions (because losing touch with them is dangerous) and they are better about vocalizing what they want and what they need. Recovering alcoholics place high value in setting and respecting appropriate boundaries peacefully and without resentment. Recovering alcoholics tend not to look at obstacles as insurmountable - because once you've come through addiction, things like forclosure on property or losing a job or becoming ill all look rather manageable. Those are qualities that I am looking for in a partner - and qualities that I think most people are looking for in a partner. I would never stop seeing someone based on the specter of potential future troubles with a substance. (After all, when you think about it, that applies to everyone.) I would stop seeing someone with a drinking problem who was not actively addressing it. With the very little information you have provided, it sounds to me like, at this time, your boyfriend *may* be active in addressing his drinking problem. But there are a lot of variables. If I were dating someone who had relapsed recently (that's what it was when he started drinking again when you met him) then my standard for how active they were in their recovery would be much higher than if they had been safe for a long, stable period of time.
Above all else: ask him. Ask him to include you in this process. Ask him to explain to you what he is doing to be healthy. Explain to him that you want to support his healthy decision making - clarify that you NEED to support him in his healthy decision making, and that you CAN'T support him in unhealthy decision making. Explain that you need him to do what is in his best interests, because anything else will work against the prospects for your relationship. And it sounds like that's not what either of you wants. You can only make a good decision about this after you understand where he is in this process and how dedicated he is to being well. And to understand that will take more time.
Take care of yourself lucvioa. There are a lot of resources out there, and here on MetaFilter, if you need help learning more.
posted by greekphilosophy at 11:46 AM on February 11, 2010 [9 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
White knuckle drunks are the worst kind. They'll seem fine for years and then snap, and just like that they'll be drinking like fish and ruining their lives and anyone else's in range.
Be very very scared.
posted by ged at 10:26 PM on February 10, 2010 [2 favorites]