knock knock, who's there?
December 2, 2009 12:50 PM Subscribe
The caretaker for our landlords' buildings is moving into the apartment across the hall. This comes with an atypical set of potential issues. We're trying to figure out the best way to deal with it. Explanation (includes politics) inside.
My roommate and I are active, vocal anarchists, who occasionally get harassed by the FBI. They have come to visit, staked out our block, and on at least one occasion called and bothered a previous landlord, among other things. We're not doing anything illegal here; such government harassment is fairly typical for our social circles. We're also pretty good tenants, most of the time.
That said, we're trying to figure out the best way to deal with the coming situation of our caretaker moving into the building. She has quite a bit of power with the (mostly absentee) landlords; she's the one who collects the rent and has a major voice in whether or not people stay or go. It's quite possible that at some point she as our neighbor is going to be subjected to some of this stuff, and we're worried that it could get us into trouble with the landlords if she does.
My roommate argues that the best thing to do is to just sit her down and warn her in advance: "hey, just so you know, this crazy stuff happens sometimes, but we want to assure you that we're not doing anything wrong here." I'm a little afraid to do that, because I think we'll scare her, especially if nothing does end up happening. Lots of people don't know this stuff happens all the time, and think that people who get harassed must be doing something wrong. His counter-argument is that if something does happen, it'll be worse, because she's more likely to think badly of us after the fact if we haven't been up front about it.
Help us, hive mind! What's the best thing for us to do here?
(Note: this question is quite real, as is state repression of activists; please don't let this devolve into accusations of unfounded paranoia, trolling or a referendum on our politics. If you don't want to answer here, you can email me at bugaboo@riseup.net. Thank you!)
My roommate and I are active, vocal anarchists, who occasionally get harassed by the FBI. They have come to visit, staked out our block, and on at least one occasion called and bothered a previous landlord, among other things. We're not doing anything illegal here; such government harassment is fairly typical for our social circles. We're also pretty good tenants, most of the time.
That said, we're trying to figure out the best way to deal with the coming situation of our caretaker moving into the building. She has quite a bit of power with the (mostly absentee) landlords; she's the one who collects the rent and has a major voice in whether or not people stay or go. It's quite possible that at some point she as our neighbor is going to be subjected to some of this stuff, and we're worried that it could get us into trouble with the landlords if she does.
My roommate argues that the best thing to do is to just sit her down and warn her in advance: "hey, just so you know, this crazy stuff happens sometimes, but we want to assure you that we're not doing anything wrong here." I'm a little afraid to do that, because I think we'll scare her, especially if nothing does end up happening. Lots of people don't know this stuff happens all the time, and think that people who get harassed must be doing something wrong. His counter-argument is that if something does happen, it'll be worse, because she's more likely to think badly of us after the fact if we haven't been up front about it.
Help us, hive mind! What's the best thing for us to do here?
(Note: this question is quite real, as is state repression of activists; please don't let this devolve into accusations of unfounded paranoia, trolling or a referendum on our politics. If you don't want to answer here, you can email me at bugaboo@riseup.net. Thank you!)
My roommate and I are active, vocal anarchists, who occasionally get harassed by the FBI. They have come to visit, staked out our block, and on at least one occasion called and bothered a previous landlord, among other things. We're not doing anything illegal here; such government harassment is fairly typical for our social circles.
I see not a whole lot to gain by forewarning the custodian of this... if you find out that she has been 'harassed', as you put it, then you can then subsequently explain the situation to her. Perhaps having someone uninvolved with your politics make a complaint to the local police or FBI detachment may actually be useful.
We're also pretty good tenants, most of the time.
Be good tenants all of the time. If you develop a good relationship and rappapport with the custodian as soon as she moves in, she's much more likely to be sympathetic and 'on your side' should the need arise down the road.
posted by modernnomad at 1:17 PM on December 2, 2009 [8 favorites]
I see not a whole lot to gain by forewarning the custodian of this... if you find out that she has been 'harassed', as you put it, then you can then subsequently explain the situation to her. Perhaps having someone uninvolved with your politics make a complaint to the local police or FBI detachment may actually be useful.
We're also pretty good tenants, most of the time.
Be good tenants all of the time. If you develop a good relationship and rappapport with the custodian as soon as she moves in, she's much more likely to be sympathetic and 'on your side' should the need arise down the road.
posted by modernnomad at 1:17 PM on December 2, 2009 [8 favorites]
Yeah - develop a good relationship with said caretaker outside the context of FBI visits.
posted by Pants! at 1:21 PM on December 2, 2009
posted by Pants! at 1:21 PM on December 2, 2009
It's hard to give specific advice here, because, no derail intended, your story doesn't really seem to add up. I've worked for the Department of Justice. They don't tend to make it a habit of harassing people whom they don't suspect of doing something illegal. This isn't out of any nobility on their part as much as it is sheer lack of resources. There are enough people who are are doing really bad stuff that they tend not to have the time to go after people who may not be. "Crazy stuff" does indeed happen sometimes, but for most people that does not rise to the level of federal criminal investigation. Your politics, right or wrong, are a liability.
Don't worry, I'm not going to turn this into a referendum. But your story does suggest to me that whatever you're doing, it's drawing attention to you. As such, giving you advice about how to talk to the super is difficult. You may say "We aren't doing anything wrong here," and while that may be true according to your own definitions... but you're an anarchist, so you would say that. More to the point, the FBI apparently disagrees with you. Unfortunately, their opinion is going to matter more in this situation than yours does.
So what is one to say? Most leases, yours almost certainly included, contain a provision that the property shall not be used for any illegal purpose. This generally requires adjudication for someone to be evicted, but landlords don't necessarily need to give any reason to decline to offer you a new lease when the current one is up. Even inconvenience to the landlord can be sufficient grounds for that. So you're in a bind here. You're also probably lowering property values. Drawing attention to that fact is not likely to win you many points.
I guess my gut says that you should keep your head down. What they don't know isn't hurting them (much), and you're already attracting enough attention as it is. "We aren't doing anything wrong, but the FBI occasionally drop by anyways for no reason at all" isn't terribly persuasive. I don't know how you can spin that one without making yourselves look bad.
Also, the less the super knows, the less she can tell the authorities. Something to think about.
posted by valkyryn at 1:28 PM on December 2, 2009 [7 favorites]
Don't worry, I'm not going to turn this into a referendum. But your story does suggest to me that whatever you're doing, it's drawing attention to you. As such, giving you advice about how to talk to the super is difficult. You may say "We aren't doing anything wrong here," and while that may be true according to your own definitions... but you're an anarchist, so you would say that. More to the point, the FBI apparently disagrees with you. Unfortunately, their opinion is going to matter more in this situation than yours does.
So what is one to say? Most leases, yours almost certainly included, contain a provision that the property shall not be used for any illegal purpose. This generally requires adjudication for someone to be evicted, but landlords don't necessarily need to give any reason to decline to offer you a new lease when the current one is up. Even inconvenience to the landlord can be sufficient grounds for that. So you're in a bind here. You're also probably lowering property values. Drawing attention to that fact is not likely to win you many points.
I guess my gut says that you should keep your head down. What they don't know isn't hurting them (much), and you're already attracting enough attention as it is. "We aren't doing anything wrong, but the FBI occasionally drop by anyways for no reason at all" isn't terribly persuasive. I don't know how you can spin that one without making yourselves look bad.
Also, the less the super knows, the less she can tell the authorities. Something to think about.
posted by valkyryn at 1:28 PM on December 2, 2009 [7 favorites]
I don't think you should have a pre-emptive conversation with her either. I'm not a landlord or caretaker, but if a neighbor came to me and said, "hey, sometimes the FBI shows up, it's because we're anarchists, and here are the good reasons why it's no big deal for you," it would still leave me with more questions than answers. And I really, really wouldn't want to ask you any questions in case some authority ever asked me about it. (And just because it's me, I would wonder if you were trying to shock or impress or scare me or something, but then again I've just come across a lot of annoying neighbors these days.)
There's little or no benefit to mentioning that the FBI have already visited you more than once. I would keep that information close to your chest. I agree you should be good tenants ALL the time, and you should also be very conscientious about the ways your activities might affect your neighbors. That way, if the FBI or whomever does show up, you can go to the caretaker, and that's when you say, "this is why this happened and this is what we're prepared to do to make sure it doesn't affect anyone's lives but our own."
posted by juliplease at 1:36 PM on December 2, 2009
There's little or no benefit to mentioning that the FBI have already visited you more than once. I would keep that information close to your chest. I agree you should be good tenants ALL the time, and you should also be very conscientious about the ways your activities might affect your neighbors. That way, if the FBI or whomever does show up, you can go to the caretaker, and that's when you say, "this is why this happened and this is what we're prepared to do to make sure it doesn't affect anyone's lives but our own."
posted by juliplease at 1:36 PM on December 2, 2009
I'd take a middle tack between your roommate's idea and your own fear, even if I had to contrive the setup a bit. I'm sneaky.
I'd approach this caretaker as if she were any other tenant and ask her how she felt about {your-issue} and encourage her to sign a petition supporting {your-issue}. I'd be very very nice about it, even if she disagreed, and be extra-receptive to her ideas, no matter what they are.
I'd put up a poster or two in the common area somewhere, advocating {your-issue}, but only after asking her if that was okay first.
Basically, I'd make it easy and obvious for her to associate you and your very nice roommate with {your-issue}. Whether she agrees or not, or signs/supports you or not... it doesn't really matter. What matters is that you be really, really polite and nice about it, sweetly explaining your cause and such.
That way when the "inevitable" FBI hasslers come by, she'll say "Oh those two? Oh yeah they're always trying to get me to sign their damn petition, but they're very harmless. Nice people."
posted by rokusan at 1:36 PM on December 2, 2009 [9 favorites]
I'd approach this caretaker as if she were any other tenant and ask her how she felt about {your-issue} and encourage her to sign a petition supporting {your-issue}. I'd be very very nice about it, even if she disagreed, and be extra-receptive to her ideas, no matter what they are.
I'd put up a poster or two in the common area somewhere, advocating {your-issue}, but only after asking her if that was okay first.
Basically, I'd make it easy and obvious for her to associate you and your very nice roommate with {your-issue}. Whether she agrees or not, or signs/supports you or not... it doesn't really matter. What matters is that you be really, really polite and nice about it, sweetly explaining your cause and such.
That way when the "inevitable" FBI hasslers come by, she'll say "Oh those two? Oh yeah they're always trying to get me to sign their damn petition, but they're very harmless. Nice people."
posted by rokusan at 1:36 PM on December 2, 2009 [9 favorites]
Be good tenants all of the time. If you develop a good relationship and rappapport with the custodian as soon as she moves in, she's much more likely to be sympathetic and 'on your side' should the need arise down the road.
This.
Bring her cookies. Not in the shape of anarchy symbols. And not conspicuously vegan-wholegrain-macrobiotic-condescending, if you can help it.
The truth is, you guys are right, and FBI does sketchy stuff sometimes, and has ever since J. Edgar Hoover started using the bureau as his own personal Star Chamber. This means you have to be extra good, so if they do nail you, you'll be starting with as much popular support as possible. (because sometimes some of the people included in "the people" do have some unpredictable amount of influence.)
posted by Jon_Evil at 2:39 PM on December 2, 2009 [1 favorite]
This.
Bring her cookies. Not in the shape of anarchy symbols. And not conspicuously vegan-wholegrain-macrobiotic-condescending, if you can help it.
The truth is, you guys are right, and FBI does sketchy stuff sometimes, and has ever since J. Edgar Hoover started using the bureau as his own personal Star Chamber. This means you have to be extra good, so if they do nail you, you'll be starting with as much popular support as possible. (because sometimes some of the people included in "the people" do have some unpredictable amount of influence.)
posted by Jon_Evil at 2:39 PM on December 2, 2009 [1 favorite]
Be good tenants -- not "most of the time" or "some of the time" but all of the time. In my experience, many people are not the good tenants that they envision themselves as (I'm not excluding myself here), so if you acknowledge that you're not good tenants all of the time, you're probably not good tenants more often than you might think. I do think that any discussion with the caretaker prior to any disturbances is a bad idea and may even prime her thinking to be looking for potential disturbances. Most landlords and caretakers have enough to worry about without hearing "FBI visits" even if it is supposedly only for your political views and activities. My hunch is that this would look like covering-up behavior and, however naïve a view it is, many people would suspect that you're doing something wrong anyway.
Even if FBI visits are common amongst your social circles, FBI visits do not happen "all of the time" as you have said. The FBI has neither the time nor the resources to stop in on people constantly.
posted by proj at 2:45 PM on December 2, 2009 [1 favorite]
Even if FBI visits are common amongst your social circles, FBI visits do not happen "all of the time" as you have said. The FBI has neither the time nor the resources to stop in on people constantly.
posted by proj at 2:45 PM on December 2, 2009 [1 favorite]
Befriend the new neighbor. Cookies or homemade bread and an offer of spare lightbulbs and tp if needed. Be good tenants in the pay-your-rent-on-time, not-noisy, take-the-trash-out way. Be good neighbors. Wait a week or 2, and next time you have a conversation in the hally, mention that you're quite political, and have been given a hard time, and ask her to let you know if anything comes up. Good tenants are worth keeping, so you want to be good enough tenants to be worth the hassle.
posted by theora55 at 4:13 PM on December 2, 2009
posted by theora55 at 4:13 PM on December 2, 2009
Agree- no pre-emptive conversation. Just be good tenants.
I know the FBI does sketchy stuff sometimes and historically, but I really am curious how believing in anarchy means the FBI bothers you all the time. What activities in the practice of anarchy raise the suspicions of law enforcement?
posted by gjc at 4:53 PM on December 2, 2009 [1 favorite]
I know the FBI does sketchy stuff sometimes and historically, but I really am curious how believing in anarchy means the FBI bothers you all the time. What activities in the practice of anarchy raise the suspicions of law enforcement?
posted by gjc at 4:53 PM on December 2, 2009 [1 favorite]
I can't believe I'm posting this to the interwebs - but here goes...
I've somewhat been in your position, but because I was no fan of the past administration. I also worked in property management, although I was never approached by federal authorities.
As you probably know, via the glory of some law in the past 8 years I can not name - they (FBI) can enter your home any time, and without your knowledge. Your caretaker lady can do nothing about this, I think she's even prohibited from alerting you to the intrusion.
I always assumed if this type of thing ever came across my desk - it wouldn't. The owner would be contacted, not me. Looking back - I think they would just pick the lock and refrain from notifying anyone.
In other words - I THINK YOU ARE FINE.
Don't tell the neighbor-lady. Be good tenants. Move on with your life.
as per gjc - what activities in the practice of anarchy raise the suspicion of law enforcement?
as per me - in this administration?
I personally don't think there is all that much difference in the powers that be, but I'm pretty sure you are in the clear for the moment.
Don't buy yourselves more trouble than you are worth.
posted by jbenben at 5:21 PM on December 2, 2009
I've somewhat been in your position, but because I was no fan of the past administration. I also worked in property management, although I was never approached by federal authorities.
As you probably know, via the glory of some law in the past 8 years I can not name - they (FBI) can enter your home any time, and without your knowledge. Your caretaker lady can do nothing about this, I think she's even prohibited from alerting you to the intrusion.
I always assumed if this type of thing ever came across my desk - it wouldn't. The owner would be contacted, not me. Looking back - I think they would just pick the lock and refrain from notifying anyone.
In other words - I THINK YOU ARE FINE.
Don't tell the neighbor-lady. Be good tenants. Move on with your life.
as per gjc - what activities in the practice of anarchy raise the suspicion of law enforcement?
as per me - in this administration?
I personally don't think there is all that much difference in the powers that be, but I'm pretty sure you are in the clear for the moment.
Don't buy yourselves more trouble than you are worth.
posted by jbenben at 5:21 PM on December 2, 2009
I actually think rokusan's idea is pretty brilliant. If someone was the ever-perfect totally-unnoticeable tenant, and then one day the FBI showed up, in at least a tiny corner of my mind I'd wonder if, wow, were those really nice people actually some secret violent sleeper cell? If you're out in the open about it, in as innocuous a way as possible, it would defuse that in advance.
posted by salvia at 7:20 PM on December 2, 2009
posted by salvia at 7:20 PM on December 2, 2009
My suggestion is not to tell the neighbor. I hang with the local anarchists pretty regularly, and my experience is the police and federal law enforcement harassment is very unpredictable. You may go a year with no knocking on the door, or there may be 3 or 4 things that happen in a month. Anyone who does not believe that activists are not regularly harassed has not been an activist in the last 20 years. Anarchists in St. Louis recently won a court case against local police for just this type of harassment.
posted by hworth at 8:20 PM on December 2, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by hworth at 8:20 PM on December 2, 2009 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
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posted by Ironmouth at 12:52 PM on December 2, 2009