Should guys be unavailable?
June 18, 2009 1:11 PM Subscribe
Should guys be a little "unavailable" when dating?
Should you be a bit aloof and unavailable? My friends say that most women loose interest if the guy is "too in" early on...
I am in love but am worried that since I laid all my cards on the table, she may get bored with no challenge....
Should you be a bit aloof and unavailable? My friends say that most women loose interest if the guy is "too in" early on...
I am in love but am worried that since I laid all my cards on the table, she may get bored with no challenge....
My friends say that most women loose interest if the guy is "too in" early on...
It's not a game. What are you looking for? Are you looking for a real, mutual relationship? If you have to dodge and fill with the girl you're seeing, if you don't feel you can be open and be yourself, then that's not the kind of relationship you're going to have.
Speaking for myself, I'm a bit wary when guys come on way too strong, too early, and if they're 'falling in love' at a rapid pace I might suspect that they are romanticizing me or the relationship and that might reflect some non-grounded qualities in them. But that's not the same as 'losing interest,' it's being aware of emotional red flags. Any woman that had to be manipulated to keep her interest is not really interested in the relationship itself, but the drama of chasing you and wondering about you - and, ultimately, that's manipulating you.
You don't have to spend time with people who act this way if it's not what you're after. A lot of this is knowing what kind of relationship you want, or are ready for.
posted by Miko at 1:16 PM on June 18, 2009 [1 favorite]
It's not a game. What are you looking for? Are you looking for a real, mutual relationship? If you have to dodge and fill with the girl you're seeing, if you don't feel you can be open and be yourself, then that's not the kind of relationship you're going to have.
Speaking for myself, I'm a bit wary when guys come on way too strong, too early, and if they're 'falling in love' at a rapid pace I might suspect that they are romanticizing me or the relationship and that might reflect some non-grounded qualities in them. But that's not the same as 'losing interest,' it's being aware of emotional red flags. Any woman that had to be manipulated to keep her interest is not really interested in the relationship itself, but the drama of chasing you and wondering about you - and, ultimately, that's manipulating you.
You don't have to spend time with people who act this way if it's not what you're after. A lot of this is knowing what kind of relationship you want, or are ready for.
posted by Miko at 1:16 PM on June 18, 2009 [1 favorite]
The key to finding a good girlfriend/boyfriend is to be yourself, instead of following stupid dating rules.
posted by Lobster Garden at 1:17 PM on June 18, 2009 [4 favorites]
posted by Lobster Garden at 1:17 PM on June 18, 2009 [4 favorites]
Yes the 'rules' apply with most people, but I believe in not having to go by the rules, and only the right person will be OK with that, so everyone else who lost interest because you were actually excited about seeing them is obviously not the right person.
posted by KateHasQuestions at 1:19 PM on June 18, 2009
posted by KateHasQuestions at 1:19 PM on June 18, 2009
zerokey is a dude. I am a lady. I agree with what he said 100%.
No. This is just an example of stupid "rules". Be honest about your feelings and do what feels good and comfortable.
Relationships are pretty challenging anyhow. Being honest about your feelings doesn't mean there's no challenge left there. Or, put another way, someone who thinks the work of the relationship is somehow over when someone honestly makes a declaration of sincere and strong feelings is, in my opinion, incorrect.
posted by jessamyn at 1:21 PM on June 18, 2009 [6 favorites]
No. This is just an example of stupid "rules". Be honest about your feelings and do what feels good and comfortable.
Relationships are pretty challenging anyhow. Being honest about your feelings doesn't mean there's no challenge left there. Or, put another way, someone who thinks the work of the relationship is somehow over when someone honestly makes a declaration of sincere and strong feelings is, in my opinion, incorrect.
posted by jessamyn at 1:21 PM on June 18, 2009 [6 favorites]
Clingy? Creepy? Talking marriage way too soon? Calling her up at lunchtime to croon sappy love songs? No.
Returning her calls? Calling her because you're thinking about her? Showing/saying how much you like her? Yes, kiddo. That's just fine.
Playing games is bullshit. If a guy I'm dating seems aloof and unavailable, it doesn't make me think "Oh, wow, I better prove my self-worth by trying extra hard to get his dick in my mouth!"
It makes me think, well, he's not interested. Better luck next time. And then I move on, because I want a boyfriend, not some frat boy who has his "how to hypnotize ladies with withholding of affection" scheme.
posted by Juliet Banana at 1:26 PM on June 18, 2009 [22 favorites]
Returning her calls? Calling her because you're thinking about her? Showing/saying how much you like her? Yes, kiddo. That's just fine.
Playing games is bullshit. If a guy I'm dating seems aloof and unavailable, it doesn't make me think "Oh, wow, I better prove my self-worth by trying extra hard to get his dick in my mouth!"
It makes me think, well, he's not interested. Better luck next time. And then I move on, because I want a boyfriend, not some frat boy who has his "how to hypnotize ladies with withholding of affection" scheme.
posted by Juliet Banana at 1:26 PM on June 18, 2009 [22 favorites]
If you play games you tend to get into relationships with game players.
If you're honest and communicative you tend to get into relationships with honest communicative people.
posted by Ookseer at 1:30 PM on June 18, 2009 [7 favorites]
If you're honest and communicative you tend to get into relationships with honest communicative people.
posted by Ookseer at 1:30 PM on June 18, 2009 [7 favorites]
Exactly how lucky have your friends been in these games of theirs? And are the women they've tried this out on been happy, healthy independent individuals who are well aware that they can find someone else who's actually interested if your friends aren't?
Be yourself. Seriously. Because you want to find someone who wants to be with you for all your lumps, not someone who was somehow lured into a silly trap and sooner or later starts wondering how she can get out of it. If you want to keep in touch with a girl you like, just do it. Any nice girl will probably appreciate it.
posted by katillathehun at 1:32 PM on June 18, 2009
Be yourself. Seriously. Because you want to find someone who wants to be with you for all your lumps, not someone who was somehow lured into a silly trap and sooner or later starts wondering how she can get out of it. If you want to keep in touch with a girl you like, just do it. Any nice girl will probably appreciate it.
posted by katillathehun at 1:32 PM on June 18, 2009
I'm torn on this. People who are obsessed with dating rules are stupid. But in general, people are really bad at judging what attracts them or not. This usually gets stated as women are really bad at judging what attracts them, which sounds horribly sexist, but that's only because it's usually dispensed in the context of dating advice to heterosexual men. I've no doubt we men are just as bad. But it does create a problem when people confidently state "Oh, that wouldn't attract me, I would think anyone who did that was a jerk."
I think there's nothing wrong with adding a playful aspect of tension to your interactions by not necessarily saying yes to 100% of all proposed meetups, and not pouring out 100% of your feelings right away. You can do this without being a jerk.
posted by game warden to the events rhino at 1:33 PM on June 18, 2009 [1 favorite]
I think there's nothing wrong with adding a playful aspect of tension to your interactions by not necessarily saying yes to 100% of all proposed meetups, and not pouring out 100% of your feelings right away. You can do this without being a jerk.
posted by game warden to the events rhino at 1:33 PM on June 18, 2009 [1 favorite]
Also: toddlers and puppies get bored with no challenge. Not well-adjusted adults in relationships.
posted by katillathehun at 1:33 PM on June 18, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by katillathehun at 1:33 PM on June 18, 2009 [3 favorites]
I think there's nothing wrong with adding a playful aspect of tension to your interactions by not necessarily saying yes to 100% of all proposed meetups, and not pouring out 100% of your feelings right away. You can do this without being a jerk.
Someone doing both of those (saying yes 100%/pouring out) is probably coming on too strong, too fast. If you're 100% available, you probably don't have enough going on in your life (or are too eager to re-arrange it for someone you don't know well yet). If you're over-sharing, well, you're just too eager.
I don't think it's game-playing to have a full life and to let sharing and intimacy arise organically rather than through forced mind-meld. Inventing reasons not to be available or not to share oneself? That's game-playing.
posted by canine epigram at 1:40 PM on June 18, 2009 [1 favorite]
Your friends are wrong.
Women do indeed love to romanticize themselves, by proclaiming how much they love the aloof, unavailable, "bad boys"...probably as a defense mechanism for why they can't get a "good guy".
Be yourself. Call her when it strikes you. Return her calls promptly. Don't dump the life you had before you met her.
posted by teg4rvn at 1:48 PM on June 18, 2009
Women do indeed love to romanticize themselves, by proclaiming how much they love the aloof, unavailable, "bad boys"...probably as a defense mechanism for why they can't get a "good guy".
Be yourself. Call her when it strikes you. Return her calls promptly. Don't dump the life you had before you met her.
posted by teg4rvn at 1:48 PM on June 18, 2009
My boyfriend was into me from day one and I knew it. He had the exclusivity talk within two weeks.
Let me tell you how much interest I did not lose. It was incredibly awesome to know that he was secure enough to not be shy about his attraction.
posted by peanut_mcgillicuty at 1:51 PM on June 18, 2009 [4 favorites]
Let me tell you how much interest I did not lose. It was incredibly awesome to know that he was secure enough to not be shy about his attraction.
posted by peanut_mcgillicuty at 1:51 PM on June 18, 2009 [4 favorites]
You need to play games with some people. Some people would prefer you're straightforward.
Unfortunately, it all depends on the girl you're seeing.
posted by PFL at 1:57 PM on June 18, 2009 [2 favorites]
Unfortunately, it all depends on the girl you're seeing.
posted by PFL at 1:57 PM on June 18, 2009 [2 favorites]
The bad news is, some people do play by those rules. The good news is, by refusing to play by them yourself, you effectively weed out people you wouldn't want to date.
posted by SpacemanStix at 1:59 PM on June 18, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by SpacemanStix at 1:59 PM on June 18, 2009 [3 favorites]
Good grief, what is it with rules or games? Just be yourself. If she doesn't like it, then she's not the one for you. Putting on a facade will get real old if you have to maintain it for the rest of your life just to keep this person interested.
posted by arcticseal at 2:03 PM on June 18, 2009
posted by arcticseal at 2:03 PM on June 18, 2009
It's not a game, but it seems to me that people do tend to make more of an effort - and feel I am worth more of an effort - when my plate of life is so full that I can't always be available. In all other aspects of life, I definitely see the tendency for people to unconsciously feel that things that are easily available are not as valuable as things that are difficult, and I have no trouble assuming that potential romantic partnerships are no exception.
So I advise against playing games, but I also advise to be leading such a full and focused life that it just works out such that you are not always entirely available at the slightest beck and call.
posted by -harlequin- at 2:04 PM on June 18, 2009 [3 favorites]
So I advise against playing games, but I also advise to be leading such a full and focused life that it just works out such that you are not always entirely available at the slightest beck and call.
posted by -harlequin- at 2:04 PM on June 18, 2009 [3 favorites]
My friends say that most women loose interest if the guy...
Your friends might be idiots. It's hard to diagnose idiocy over the internet but you should keep it in mind.
posted by chairface at 2:11 PM on June 18, 2009 [2 favorites]
Your friends might be idiots. It's hard to diagnose idiocy over the internet but you should keep it in mind.
posted by chairface at 2:11 PM on June 18, 2009 [2 favorites]
Depends on the woman.
If she's a very attractive woman, like way out of your league (or at least you feel this way, if only on a subconscious level), then she's used to having guys fall all over themselves to get with her. Shower her with attention, and she'll assume she's out of your league (which she is) and lose interest in you. After all, EVERY guys acts like this to her.
Conversely, if she's less attractive and you act aloof, she may assume YOU aren't that interested, that she's not on your level and she would look like a fool for chasing after you and/or you'd only end up treating her badly.
(Of course it's complicated because some beautiful women think they're attractive, and some less attractive women think they're beautiful.)
The thing is... this all acts as a filter. If you think she's a goddess and you will just die without her, that you're dirt by comparison, then even if you do "trick" her by gamesmanship and you end up dating, it's not gonna work out. I've seen this scenario play out a hundred times: you'll tend to be jealous, controlling, you'll spend lotsa money on her to prove your worth, etc. and she'll end up cheating on you because she's just not that into you.
So I say just forget the games and go with your heart, as others are saying. If it doesn't work out, if your affection (or aloofness) scares her off, it wasn't meant to be. And consider yourself lucky for scaring her off now vs. later. If she's on the same page, though then congratulations in advance because you found something pretty great.
Good luck!
posted by LordSludge at 2:11 PM on June 18, 2009
If she's a very attractive woman, like way out of your league (or at least you feel this way, if only on a subconscious level), then she's used to having guys fall all over themselves to get with her. Shower her with attention, and she'll assume she's out of your league (which she is) and lose interest in you. After all, EVERY guys acts like this to her.
Conversely, if she's less attractive and you act aloof, she may assume YOU aren't that interested, that she's not on your level and she would look like a fool for chasing after you and/or you'd only end up treating her badly.
(Of course it's complicated because some beautiful women think they're attractive, and some less attractive women think they're beautiful.)
The thing is... this all acts as a filter. If you think she's a goddess and you will just die without her, that you're dirt by comparison, then even if you do "trick" her by gamesmanship and you end up dating, it's not gonna work out. I've seen this scenario play out a hundred times: you'll tend to be jealous, controlling, you'll spend lotsa money on her to prove your worth, etc. and she'll end up cheating on you because she's just not that into you.
So I say just forget the games and go with your heart, as others are saying. If it doesn't work out, if your affection (or aloofness) scares her off, it wasn't meant to be. And consider yourself lucky for scaring her off now vs. later. If she's on the same page, though then congratulations in advance because you found something pretty great.
Good luck!
posted by LordSludge at 2:11 PM on June 18, 2009
Should guys be unavailable when they are dating?
Only if you are legitimately unavailable - you're working double shifts, you're out of town, you actually have a weekly poker night, whatever. Otherwise what you're calling unavailable the rest of us call lying. Generally speaking, lying your way into a relationship is a really bad idea.
FWIW, it's OK to be honest. "I really like you and I want to see more of you" is an OK thing to say. So is "I think I'm in love with you." So is "I'm worried that by being upfront about my feelings, I may be putting you under pressure. I want you to feel comfortable telling me to back off if you need to."
posted by DarlingBri at 2:13 PM on June 18, 2009 [2 favorites]
Only if you are legitimately unavailable - you're working double shifts, you're out of town, you actually have a weekly poker night, whatever. Otherwise what you're calling unavailable the rest of us call lying. Generally speaking, lying your way into a relationship is a really bad idea.
FWIW, it's OK to be honest. "I really like you and I want to see more of you" is an OK thing to say. So is "I think I'm in love with you." So is "I'm worried that by being upfront about my feelings, I may be putting you under pressure. I want you to feel comfortable telling me to back off if you need to."
posted by DarlingBri at 2:13 PM on June 18, 2009 [2 favorites]
This usually gets stated as women are really bad at judging what attracts them, which sounds horribly sexist, but that's only because it's usually dispensed in the context of dating advice to heterosexual men.
I think what attracts people is confidence. It gets a bit tricky to determine in real life, but there's a big difference between, "I really really like you," and "Please, please like me back, I love you so much." The first comes from a place of confidence, the second doesn't. Knowing someone is attracted to you is a turn on. Knowing someone is desperate for your affection, especially early in a relationship if you're not sure how you feel, is a turn off. It creates an imbalance of power.
posted by Diablevert at 2:14 PM on June 18, 2009 [2 favorites]
I think what attracts people is confidence. It gets a bit tricky to determine in real life, but there's a big difference between, "I really really like you," and "Please, please like me back, I love you so much." The first comes from a place of confidence, the second doesn't. Knowing someone is attracted to you is a turn on. Knowing someone is desperate for your affection, especially early in a relationship if you're not sure how you feel, is a turn off. It creates an imbalance of power.
posted by Diablevert at 2:14 PM on June 18, 2009 [2 favorites]
I'm going to go ahead and say what everyone else seems to be tiptoeing around.
You're not in love with this girl. You may have strong feelings of some sort, but if you were really in love with her - and not some idealized version of her - you'd know her well enough to judge what type of behavior would scare her away.
I'm definitely getting "shiny new girl" vibes from your question, and even the sense that you might lack extensive experience in the relationship arena. So I'll give a shot at giving you something you can really use to help fix your problem.
1. If you really like this girl, focus on getting to know her and building a balanced relationship with her, rather than whether you're too "available." If you have strong feelings for her, you should have some sense of what her feelings for you might be. If you don't, you need to pay attention and learn more about who she is when you do spend time together. Do that and your question will eventually answer itself: you might find out that she doesn't like to be smothered with attention, or maybe you'll find that she wants reassurance that you're there for her. Either way, find out.
2. As someone else mentioned, make sure you've got your own life going on before you try to fill it with someone else's. Otherwise you've got nothing to offer her as a partner in this relationship.
3. Don't play games with her - but understand what your own feelings really are before spilling your guts to her about your undying love. Do you really know her well enough to love her? Or have you built up an idealized image of her in your mind? Has it been a while since you've had a girlfriend? If you know truly know yourself and know her, it will be much easier for you to connect with her in a meaningful, lasting way.
Good luck.
posted by mikewas at 2:17 PM on June 18, 2009 [2 favorites]
You're not in love with this girl. You may have strong feelings of some sort, but if you were really in love with her - and not some idealized version of her - you'd know her well enough to judge what type of behavior would scare her away.
I'm definitely getting "shiny new girl" vibes from your question, and even the sense that you might lack extensive experience in the relationship arena. So I'll give a shot at giving you something you can really use to help fix your problem.
1. If you really like this girl, focus on getting to know her and building a balanced relationship with her, rather than whether you're too "available." If you have strong feelings for her, you should have some sense of what her feelings for you might be. If you don't, you need to pay attention and learn more about who she is when you do spend time together. Do that and your question will eventually answer itself: you might find out that she doesn't like to be smothered with attention, or maybe you'll find that she wants reassurance that you're there for her. Either way, find out.
2. As someone else mentioned, make sure you've got your own life going on before you try to fill it with someone else's. Otherwise you've got nothing to offer her as a partner in this relationship.
3. Don't play games with her - but understand what your own feelings really are before spilling your guts to her about your undying love. Do you really know her well enough to love her? Or have you built up an idealized image of her in your mind? Has it been a while since you've had a girlfriend? If you know truly know yourself and know her, it will be much easier for you to connect with her in a meaningful, lasting way.
Good luck.
posted by mikewas at 2:17 PM on June 18, 2009 [2 favorites]
I am in love but am worried that since I laid all my cards on the table, she may get bored with no challenge....
If this happens, no amount of scheming is going to stop it. There are few rules in life, but one is that if you bet it all, you never fold.
posted by Ironmouth at 2:26 PM on June 18, 2009 [3 favorites]
If this happens, no amount of scheming is going to stop it. There are few rules in life, but one is that if you bet it all, you never fold.
posted by Ironmouth at 2:26 PM on June 18, 2009 [3 favorites]
Depends on where you are in the relationship. A little tough to tell since you are in love but concerned about being in love too early on.
Early on: No need to rush it. "Love" too quickly sounds clingy. Needy. Very bad. Never lie but at the same time you don't have to talk about love on the second date. And of course be yourself but with the caveat that if you would not describe yourself as "needy" or "clingy" then by all means don't act clingy.
Later on: Definitely be available. Talk about everything from religion to number of kids you want to credit scores before marriage.
Always: Be confident.
The truth is women change some time in a relationship from looking for "Mr. Bad Boy Fun Guy" to "Mr. Future Father of My Children." You need to be aware of when that change takes place.
posted by Lord Fancy Pants at 2:35 PM on June 18, 2009
Early on: No need to rush it. "Love" too quickly sounds clingy. Needy. Very bad. Never lie but at the same time you don't have to talk about love on the second date. And of course be yourself but with the caveat that if you would not describe yourself as "needy" or "clingy" then by all means don't act clingy.
Later on: Definitely be available. Talk about everything from religion to number of kids you want to credit scores before marriage.
Always: Be confident.
The truth is women change some time in a relationship from looking for "Mr. Bad Boy Fun Guy" to "Mr. Future Father of My Children." You need to be aware of when that change takes place.
posted by Lord Fancy Pants at 2:35 PM on June 18, 2009
Should you be a bit aloof and unavailable?
No. You should have a life so that you're legitimately busy at times. That way you have interesting things to talk about and fun events to invite sexy people to.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:35 PM on June 18, 2009 [5 favorites]
No. You should have a life so that you're legitimately busy at times. That way you have interesting things to talk about and fun events to invite sexy people to.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:35 PM on June 18, 2009 [5 favorites]
The whole 'ignore her' thing really is just a negative twist on being confident.
It means don't be needy, don't beg, just be honest and be confident in yourself.
posted by TheOtherGuy at 2:42 PM on June 18, 2009 [2 favorites]
It means don't be needy, don't beg, just be honest and be confident in yourself.
posted by TheOtherGuy at 2:42 PM on June 18, 2009 [2 favorites]
They like the challenge. It has nothing to do with "rules". It's human nature. It's simple common sense to be aloof. You will scare her away if you are not.
And it's no "game". You are simply sending a message to this girl that you have a life- and she will become more attracted to you because of it. Easy peasy.
posted by Zambrano at 2:44 PM on June 18, 2009
How about... actually have a life? Don't be aloof. Pretending to be busy is childish.
posted by katillathehun at 3:16 PM on June 18, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by katillathehun at 3:16 PM on June 18, 2009 [2 favorites]
The whole 'ignore her' thing really is just a negative twist on being confident.
I've gotten a potential insight from this thread that this might be true. From the outside, it might look to your friends like women respond best when a guy is leading a full enough to be too busy and too smart to puppydog around after her. But that's not the same thing as intentionally acting aloof. That's faking it. So your friends may notice something that is working in relationships, and they may think they know why (acting aloof), though they're mistaken about why it works.
The best advice is definitely to lead the kind of life you're interested in, and don't center all your hopes and identity on this, or any relationship. If you're doing that right, your own life will keep you busy - and interesting - enough for anyone who likes you to find you interesting. But it's not about pretending not to care.
posted by Miko at 3:20 PM on June 18, 2009 [2 favorites]
I've gotten a potential insight from this thread that this might be true. From the outside, it might look to your friends like women respond best when a guy is leading a full enough to be too busy and too smart to puppydog around after her. But that's not the same thing as intentionally acting aloof. That's faking it. So your friends may notice something that is working in relationships, and they may think they know why (acting aloof), though they're mistaken about why it works.
The best advice is definitely to lead the kind of life you're interested in, and don't center all your hopes and identity on this, or any relationship. If you're doing that right, your own life will keep you busy - and interesting - enough for anyone who likes you to find you interesting. But it's not about pretending not to care.
posted by Miko at 3:20 PM on June 18, 2009 [2 favorites]
I think there are always those types of people who want what they can't have and by being more unavailable you create that allure, but as most people get older they are less impressed by the cool guy that has too many awesome things going on to return your calls. I would be lying if I said it wouldn't help you get some girls, but other women will find it a big turn off and may not bother. Not to mention that I think that attitude is just destructive to building a relationship. It is very easy to make the person feel insecure by being distant and that can really poison an entire relationship.
posted by whoaali at 3:33 PM on June 18, 2009
posted by whoaali at 3:33 PM on June 18, 2009
Personally, the most attractive thing I think someone can do is show genuine interest and emotion. This has worked without fail for me, and it has always worked on me, too.
I have had it happen where someone tried this purposely aloof crap before and it just made me angry and resentful. Imagine what people tend to do when they like someone a lot and it seems not to be returned: you get confused, then you put your guard up and you're wary of them. The times they acknowledge you and seem interested are great, and then it's a stark fall when they're distant again. You don't like that fall. You're confused. The longer this goes on, the more a well-adjusted person will get warier and eventually, irritated. And then they finally say fuck it, I don't know what the hell this person's problem is but I don't need this.
So what will you be left with if you try to be falsely unavailable? People who aren't well-adjusted. People who get off on drama. People who are desperate. People who need someone else to validate them. People who don't have any self-respect. People who will, very likely, play games with you, conscious or unconscious of the fact.
Juliet Banana's advice is spot-on. You might want to tone down any urges to start talking about huge commitments early on, but if she wants to do something and you're available, don't pretend not to be. Don't pretend you're not excited to see her. Let her know you think about her, that sort of thing. I'm incredibly moved when even just friends take a second to let me know they thought of me.
posted by Nattie at 3:45 PM on June 18, 2009 [4 favorites]
I have had it happen where someone tried this purposely aloof crap before and it just made me angry and resentful. Imagine what people tend to do when they like someone a lot and it seems not to be returned: you get confused, then you put your guard up and you're wary of them. The times they acknowledge you and seem interested are great, and then it's a stark fall when they're distant again. You don't like that fall. You're confused. The longer this goes on, the more a well-adjusted person will get warier and eventually, irritated. And then they finally say fuck it, I don't know what the hell this person's problem is but I don't need this.
So what will you be left with if you try to be falsely unavailable? People who aren't well-adjusted. People who get off on drama. People who are desperate. People who need someone else to validate them. People who don't have any self-respect. People who will, very likely, play games with you, conscious or unconscious of the fact.
Juliet Banana's advice is spot-on. You might want to tone down any urges to start talking about huge commitments early on, but if she wants to do something and you're available, don't pretend not to be. Don't pretend you're not excited to see her. Let her know you think about her, that sort of thing. I'm incredibly moved when even just friends take a second to let me know they thought of me.
posted by Nattie at 3:45 PM on June 18, 2009 [4 favorites]
I have no doubt that being unavailable/aloof, as part of a comprehensive pickup artist strategy, may help you increase your "notch count" if you're trying to get laid a lot.
But do you really want to act like a pickup artist?
posted by jayder at 3:57 PM on June 18, 2009
But do you really want to act like a pickup artist?
posted by jayder at 3:57 PM on June 18, 2009
If she's a very attractive woman, like way out of your league (or at least you feel this way, if only on a subconscious level), then she's used to having guys fall all over themselves to get with her. Shower her with attention, and she'll assume she's out of your league (which she is) and lose interest in you. After all, EVERY guys acts like this to her.
please ignore LordSludge's "advice" as it is just yet another really stupid fucking rule that is very excellent at cockblocking both relationships and hookups. i'm a pretty girl and cannot even begin to count how many dudes that have very obviously had crushes on me have either a) just assumed i was out of their league and scurried away or b) have tried to play it LordSludge-style and neg me. the moment i sniff that someone's trying some stupid rule or game out on me, i get turned off for all of eternity. don't be an asshole—unless you're really an asshole. just be yourself.
posted by lia at 4:24 PM on June 18, 2009 [1 favorite]
please ignore LordSludge's "advice" as it is just yet another really stupid fucking rule that is very excellent at cockblocking both relationships and hookups. i'm a pretty girl and cannot even begin to count how many dudes that have very obviously had crushes on me have either a) just assumed i was out of their league and scurried away or b) have tried to play it LordSludge-style and neg me. the moment i sniff that someone's trying some stupid rule or game out on me, i get turned off for all of eternity. don't be an asshole—unless you're really an asshole. just be yourself.
posted by lia at 4:24 PM on June 18, 2009 [1 favorite]
I don't think aloof is good. I think, I have things to do and I have to do them but I also want to make an effort to hang out and have a special date is good.
Definitely over eager is bad. I've done a lot of testing in this regard, so you don't have to.
posted by sully75 at 4:32 PM on June 18, 2009
Definitely over eager is bad. I've done a lot of testing in this regard, so you don't have to.
posted by sully75 at 4:32 PM on June 18, 2009
Being a bit mysterious (NOT aloof) is great at getting women (or men) interested but terrible at keeping them interested. Basically if you give of a cool vibe and they don't know what you do in your spare time, they will imagine you do awesome things when they don't see you and will want to be included. The key is THEY must think you have a cool vibe for their definition of cool.
Once you are actively getting to know them, you have to let go of the mystery thing and actually fit into their definition of cool/awesome for them to stay interested. How fast you get rid of the mystery is a bit of a balancing act. You don't want to crush them by sharing too much to fast, but you don't want to be aloof or standoffish.
lia makes a good point, even though I disagree with the rest of what she is said:
the moment i sniff that someone's trying some stupid rule or game out on me, i get turned off for all of eternity. don't be an asshole—unless you're really an asshole. just be yourself.
You have to come off as genuine, regardless of whether you are or not.
posted by thekiltedwonder at 5:50 PM on June 18, 2009
Once you are actively getting to know them, you have to let go of the mystery thing and actually fit into their definition of cool/awesome for them to stay interested. How fast you get rid of the mystery is a bit of a balancing act. You don't want to crush them by sharing too much to fast, but you don't want to be aloof or standoffish.
lia makes a good point, even though I disagree with the rest of what she is said:
the moment i sniff that someone's trying some stupid rule or game out on me, i get turned off for all of eternity. don't be an asshole—unless you're really an asshole. just be yourself.
You have to come off as genuine, regardless of whether you are or not.
posted by thekiltedwonder at 5:50 PM on June 18, 2009
We're saying the same thing, lia! Be yourself. Invite her to do something you enjoy already (I dunno, making dinner together on a Sunday night, going to a ball game, going hiking in the mountains, a NASCAR race, hell maybe smoking weed and watching a movie if that's what you're into) -- not some contrived event that you think will impress her. No need to impress anyone, ever. Just be you.
If she doesn't like you for who you are, there are thousands... (what, billions? really?? cool!) BILLIONS of ladies out there.
posted by LordSludge at 7:18 PM on June 18, 2009
If she doesn't like you for who you are, there are thousands... (what, billions? really?? cool!) BILLIONS of ladies out there.
posted by LordSludge at 7:18 PM on June 18, 2009
Being a bit mysterious (NOT aloof) is great at getting women (or men) interested but terrible at keeping them interested [...] Once you are actively getting to know them, you have to let go of the mystery thing [...] How fast you get rid of the mystery is a bit of a balancing act. You don't want to crush them by sharing too much to fast, but you don't want to be aloof or standoffish.
Ideally, getting to know you should be a bit like opening a set of Russian Dolls, but where each new doll revealed is as interesting as the one before. If you can keep up the pace, you should be constantly building new dolls inside the old ones, so your partner never feels like they've quite reached the final doll. I don't mean that you do this as a cynical strategy, but just because that's the kind of person you are.
(i just made that up; not sure how valid a theory it is; it was sparked by me thinking about the more intriguing people i've known)
posted by UbuRoivas at 7:43 PM on June 18, 2009 [3 favorites]
Ideally, getting to know you should be a bit like opening a set of Russian Dolls, but where each new doll revealed is as interesting as the one before. If you can keep up the pace, you should be constantly building new dolls inside the old ones, so your partner never feels like they've quite reached the final doll. I don't mean that you do this as a cynical strategy, but just because that's the kind of person you are.
(i just made that up; not sure how valid a theory it is; it was sparked by me thinking about the more intriguing people i've known)
posted by UbuRoivas at 7:43 PM on June 18, 2009 [3 favorites]
Love it. Because in a way, if you are a healthy person, whether in a relationship or not, you are always building the next Russian doll inside the doll you are now.
If you're not building that doll, something is wrong -- you're clinging pretty hard to the old one, and pretty soon it's not going to fit you any more - let alone your partner.
Perhaps this metaphor does not benefit by my extension, but nevertheless, it's quite good.
posted by Miko at 8:14 PM on June 18, 2009
If you're not building that doll, something is wrong -- you're clinging pretty hard to the old one, and pretty soon it's not going to fit you any more - let alone your partner.
Perhaps this metaphor does not benefit by my extension, but nevertheless, it's quite good.
posted by Miko at 8:14 PM on June 18, 2009
What peanut_mcgillicuty and lia said. In fact, I was just about to form a rebuttal against Lord_Sludge's "depends on how out of your league she is" diction and then saw I didn't have to.
I don't consider myself a hot item nor an un-hot one--I'm just me, a specific person who is interested in knowing other specific people I can have fun with. But back in high school, college, and the first couple years out of college, guys I would initially find fun to hang out with would act like idiots trying too hard to be cool, and "neg hits" were definitely part of my experience. Later when I realized what the hell was going on--with the faux aloofness, the neg hits, the years-later revelations after we'd just become distant friends or casual friend-of-friend party acquaintances that actually Some Dude had had the major hots for me for a long time and just wrote it off, etc--I wrinkled my nose a lot and decided even interesting cool guys could be hella immature and off-putting. The language of "in your league" is off-putting. There are people in the world you could get along with and then there are others you wouldn't. It's kind of that simple and case-by-case; any other language tends to imply trophy partner, status-obsessed competition and is at best embarrassing.
My fiance now is much like peanut_mcgillicuty's partner. He was incredibly straightforward from the get-go about how he felt about me, without being clingy. Occasionally acquaintances we have who can be kind of social-competition-obsessed (and, in that vein, a tad douchey) imply a sort of disbelief I'm with him. Sometimes it annoys the crap out of me and makes me want to tap them on the shoulder and go, "hey, you wanna know why I'm with him? I'll tell you: he was grown up enough to tell me to my face he was interested, and to treat me like a potential friend and fun companion and interesting person, not a game of Risk. He is the second man I have ever met who bothered. That's also why my total boyfriend count has been 2."
Also, everything Miko said about it dawning on her this game-strategizing is probably just a sign of clueless people grasping at patterns they see work for others--having a life and being interesting anyway--but only following the faintest shell of that substance--pretending to be busy, acting aloof, etc. That makes a lot of sense to me.
posted by ifjuly at 11:37 AM on June 19, 2009 [1 favorite]
I don't consider myself a hot item nor an un-hot one--I'm just me, a specific person who is interested in knowing other specific people I can have fun with. But back in high school, college, and the first couple years out of college, guys I would initially find fun to hang out with would act like idiots trying too hard to be cool, and "neg hits" were definitely part of my experience. Later when I realized what the hell was going on--with the faux aloofness, the neg hits, the years-later revelations after we'd just become distant friends or casual friend-of-friend party acquaintances that actually Some Dude had had the major hots for me for a long time and just wrote it off, etc--I wrinkled my nose a lot and decided even interesting cool guys could be hella immature and off-putting. The language of "in your league" is off-putting. There are people in the world you could get along with and then there are others you wouldn't. It's kind of that simple and case-by-case; any other language tends to imply trophy partner, status-obsessed competition and is at best embarrassing.
My fiance now is much like peanut_mcgillicuty's partner. He was incredibly straightforward from the get-go about how he felt about me, without being clingy. Occasionally acquaintances we have who can be kind of social-competition-obsessed (and, in that vein, a tad douchey) imply a sort of disbelief I'm with him. Sometimes it annoys the crap out of me and makes me want to tap them on the shoulder and go, "hey, you wanna know why I'm with him? I'll tell you: he was grown up enough to tell me to my face he was interested, and to treat me like a potential friend and fun companion and interesting person, not a game of Risk. He is the second man I have ever met who bothered. That's also why my total boyfriend count has been 2."
Also, everything Miko said about it dawning on her this game-strategizing is probably just a sign of clueless people grasping at patterns they see work for others--having a life and being interesting anyway--but only following the faintest shell of that substance--pretending to be busy, acting aloof, etc. That makes a lot of sense to me.
posted by ifjuly at 11:37 AM on June 19, 2009 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by zerokey at 1:14 PM on June 18, 2009 [11 favorites]