Please be my friend... wait, why are you running?
January 9, 2009 12:26 PM Subscribe
What makes the difference between "You think I'm really awesome-- that makes me feel good and I like being around you" and "You think I'm really awesome-- I'm uncomfortable and this is awkward"? Can things work if one person is the clear initiator of building a friendship?
I've always operated on the assumption that building a friendship requires a relatively balanced exchange of signs of interest. I've stuck to this partially because I figured showing too much enthusiasm for the friendship would turn people off and thus be counterproductive, and partially because I was petrified of the embarrassment of being so "out there" with my interest and being rejected. But frankly, this approach has not been very successful for me. So I'm working up the courage to face my fears of rejection, because good friendships are too important to miss out on because I'm scared of taking risks. But that still leaves the first concern about whether it's counterproductive.
In other AskMes about having good conversations and making friends, a lot of people say that knowing that someone thinks they're great makes them feel good and want to spend more time around the person. But is that really true? Maybe I'm comparing it too much to a couple unwanted crushes on me in high school and perhaps it's not as applicable in an adult friendship situation, but in those cases knowing how interested they were in me pushed me from finding it reasonably enjoyable to spend time with them, to avoiding them because I felt awkward and pressured about being so important to them.
So. Does someone showing strong interest in you ever turn you off from a person who you might've been friends with otherwise? Are there concrete differences between the positive, flattering interest and the negative, awkward interest (or is it just that it's awkward when someone you were never going to be friends with anyway wants to be friends with you)? Are there any "go-ahead" (or "stop!") signals I should be looking for? Historically I think I've done too little (ie, backed off from pursuing things after initiating conversation with a coworker at a couple happy hours in a row if the other person didn't start actively seeking me out) but what is "too much"? Is it important for a friendship to build reciprocally with relatively equal interest on both sides, or should I just start initiating conversations and lunch dates and keep going as long as they seem to be going well? (And does any of this change when it's a guy and I'm a girl, even though I'm in a relationship and he may be too?)
I've always operated on the assumption that building a friendship requires a relatively balanced exchange of signs of interest. I've stuck to this partially because I figured showing too much enthusiasm for the friendship would turn people off and thus be counterproductive, and partially because I was petrified of the embarrassment of being so "out there" with my interest and being rejected. But frankly, this approach has not been very successful for me. So I'm working up the courage to face my fears of rejection, because good friendships are too important to miss out on because I'm scared of taking risks. But that still leaves the first concern about whether it's counterproductive.
In other AskMes about having good conversations and making friends, a lot of people say that knowing that someone thinks they're great makes them feel good and want to spend more time around the person. But is that really true? Maybe I'm comparing it too much to a couple unwanted crushes on me in high school and perhaps it's not as applicable in an adult friendship situation, but in those cases knowing how interested they were in me pushed me from finding it reasonably enjoyable to spend time with them, to avoiding them because I felt awkward and pressured about being so important to them.
So. Does someone showing strong interest in you ever turn you off from a person who you might've been friends with otherwise? Are there concrete differences between the positive, flattering interest and the negative, awkward interest (or is it just that it's awkward when someone you were never going to be friends with anyway wants to be friends with you)? Are there any "go-ahead" (or "stop!") signals I should be looking for? Historically I think I've done too little (ie, backed off from pursuing things after initiating conversation with a coworker at a couple happy hours in a row if the other person didn't start actively seeking me out) but what is "too much"? Is it important for a friendship to build reciprocally with relatively equal interest on both sides, or should I just start initiating conversations and lunch dates and keep going as long as they seem to be going well? (And does any of this change when it's a guy and I'm a girl, even though I'm in a relationship and he may be too?)
There are no rules.
When I read your post, I asked myself how I'd feel if someone tried to "seduce" me into a friendship. My only answer is it depends on the person. It also would depend on how I was feeling that day and a host of other variables.
Someone else might say, "No. I would never be open to that." Yet a third person might say, "I'd be really flattered and definitely into it."
There are so many touching questing here in which people are searching for social rules. There really aren't any. What works for me won't necessarily work for you. And when Fred tells you, "Oh, you should always do X, because I do X and it works for me," all that means is that X works for Fred (and did Fred mention the times he tried X and it didn't work?). You're not Fred.
The only thing you can do is to work on yourself (become an interesting, kind person), throw yourself out there and do it often -- because as people have said over and over, it's a numbers game -- and listen carefully to the response you get. If you try something and it doesn't work, that doesn't mean your tactic was flawed. It means it didn't work that time. Try again.
People way underestimate how hard it is to find a compatible mate or friend. They try five times, fail, and then assume they are flawed or everyone else is flawed. I once knew a successful writer who had stories regularly published in the "New Yorker." She showed me her box of rejection letters. She had hundreds and hundreds of them. Yes, she was a talented writer, but part of her talent was hanging in there.
posted by grumblebee at 1:24 PM on January 9, 2009 [6 favorites]
When I read your post, I asked myself how I'd feel if someone tried to "seduce" me into a friendship. My only answer is it depends on the person. It also would depend on how I was feeling that day and a host of other variables.
Someone else might say, "No. I would never be open to that." Yet a third person might say, "I'd be really flattered and definitely into it."
There are so many touching questing here in which people are searching for social rules. There really aren't any. What works for me won't necessarily work for you. And when Fred tells you, "Oh, you should always do X, because I do X and it works for me," all that means is that X works for Fred (and did Fred mention the times he tried X and it didn't work?). You're not Fred.
The only thing you can do is to work on yourself (become an interesting, kind person), throw yourself out there and do it often -- because as people have said over and over, it's a numbers game -- and listen carefully to the response you get. If you try something and it doesn't work, that doesn't mean your tactic was flawed. It means it didn't work that time. Try again.
People way underestimate how hard it is to find a compatible mate or friend. They try five times, fail, and then assume they are flawed or everyone else is flawed. I once knew a successful writer who had stories regularly published in the "New Yorker." She showed me her box of rejection letters. She had hundreds and hundreds of them. Yes, she was a talented writer, but part of her talent was hanging in there.
posted by grumblebee at 1:24 PM on January 9, 2009 [6 favorites]
When I was in college 'way back in 1979, there was a young woman in my Shakespeare class who wore vintage dresses and old bowling shirts and used one of those airline seatbelt extenders as a belt (with a crisp white blouse, full black circle skirt and bright red character shoes). This was at San Diego State where the uniform was Dolphin shorts (little nylon shorts in bright colors) with T's or tank tops or preppy khakis and iZods--that was for guys and girls.
This person was very shy but projected an air of aloofness and distain. One day, during a lull in class, I turned to her and said something along the lines of, "I love the way you dress, you always look so awesome!" (me, in my absolutely conventional khakis and iZod shirt). She smiled shyly, we struck up a conversation, kept at it and have been best friends for thirty years--through boyfriends, breakups, new jobs, layoffs, marriage and kids.
Through the years I've often started friendships by noticing something about a person that they are very good at or obviously take pride in and commenting on it. People like being really seen. I certainly feel the same way.
posted by agatha_magatha at 1:35 PM on January 9, 2009 [14 favorites]
This person was very shy but projected an air of aloofness and distain. One day, during a lull in class, I turned to her and said something along the lines of, "I love the way you dress, you always look so awesome!" (me, in my absolutely conventional khakis and iZod shirt). She smiled shyly, we struck up a conversation, kept at it and have been best friends for thirty years--through boyfriends, breakups, new jobs, layoffs, marriage and kids.
Through the years I've often started friendships by noticing something about a person that they are very good at or obviously take pride in and commenting on it. People like being really seen. I certainly feel the same way.
posted by agatha_magatha at 1:35 PM on January 9, 2009 [14 favorites]
Best answer: If a person whom I perceive to be relatively secure in themselves, generally happy and reasonably self-confident, with a normal amount of varied interests and activity, shows an enthusiastic interest in being my friend, it makes me feel very good, and makes me much more likely to want to find room for them in my social schedule. It also makes me much more likely to want to learn more about them, share more personal insights and experiences with them if I feel that I can trust them, and genuinely interested in becoming a real, close friend.
If a person whom I perceive to be extremely insecure, unhappy or wobbly when it comes to self-confidence shows an enthusiastic interest in me, alarm bells go off in my head and I take a step back. Every compliment seems like effusive false praise. I do not find it a "turn off" or judge the person so much as I just don't find myself reciprocating interest. I don't have the time or interest to dive into a one-sided friendship: and by that I mean, me offering genuine interest, while the other person goes to great lengths to show me how much they are interested in being friends, when all they really want is someone to make things better for them.
Obviously these are two extremes, and most friendships, at least in my life, seem to bounce up and down in a comfortable sine wave between the two extremes, without hitting either peak for too long of a time -- and when they do, I either become FRIENDS! FOR! LIFE! with that person, or I take a step away and the friendship dies, or just becomes a friendly poke on facebook from time to time, if that.
I have acquaintances with whom I feel would like to be closer friends, and I can sense they are holding back, or are uncomfortable being too "schmoopy" -- for lack of a better term, with their affection. I'm not going to drag it out of them, but my sense is that they're a little buried as an alternative to desperation, because they're sort of unhappy. I know I've been in all three emotional places in my life (self-confident, busy and happy; extremely insecure and obviously miserable; somewhere in between and concerned about being the desperate, weird person begging for friendship, attention or affection).
Sometimes you can build a beautiful friendship with someone when you're in the depths of insecurity and loneliness -- but the most lasting, fantastic friendships I've built are with those people I met when I was, for whatever reason, comfortable enough to express my feelings for them genuinely: Either because I was in a particularly comfortable place on my own, or they were able to make me feel that way when I was in their presence. I don't give my friends compliments all day long, but my closest friends know exactly what I deeply admire and appreciate about them, because I tell them often, whenever I get the chance.
posted by pazazygeek at 1:36 PM on January 9, 2009 [13 favorites]
If a person whom I perceive to be extremely insecure, unhappy or wobbly when it comes to self-confidence shows an enthusiastic interest in me, alarm bells go off in my head and I take a step back. Every compliment seems like effusive false praise. I do not find it a "turn off" or judge the person so much as I just don't find myself reciprocating interest. I don't have the time or interest to dive into a one-sided friendship: and by that I mean, me offering genuine interest, while the other person goes to great lengths to show me how much they are interested in being friends, when all they really want is someone to make things better for them.
Obviously these are two extremes, and most friendships, at least in my life, seem to bounce up and down in a comfortable sine wave between the two extremes, without hitting either peak for too long of a time -- and when they do, I either become FRIENDS! FOR! LIFE! with that person, or I take a step away and the friendship dies, or just becomes a friendly poke on facebook from time to time, if that.
I have acquaintances with whom I feel would like to be closer friends, and I can sense they are holding back, or are uncomfortable being too "schmoopy" -- for lack of a better term, with their affection. I'm not going to drag it out of them, but my sense is that they're a little buried as an alternative to desperation, because they're sort of unhappy. I know I've been in all three emotional places in my life (self-confident, busy and happy; extremely insecure and obviously miserable; somewhere in between and concerned about being the desperate, weird person begging for friendship, attention or affection).
Sometimes you can build a beautiful friendship with someone when you're in the depths of insecurity and loneliness -- but the most lasting, fantastic friendships I've built are with those people I met when I was, for whatever reason, comfortable enough to express my feelings for them genuinely: Either because I was in a particularly comfortable place on my own, or they were able to make me feel that way when I was in their presence. I don't give my friends compliments all day long, but my closest friends know exactly what I deeply admire and appreciate about them, because I tell them often, whenever I get the chance.
posted by pazazygeek at 1:36 PM on January 9, 2009 [13 favorites]
Pazazygeek has it. I have been turned off by people who pursue friendships too enthusiastically, but they tend to be extreme cases—people who start calling constantly, who seem to have nothing else going on in their lives, and who react with hurt and anger if I don’t match their enthusiasm. You don’t sound like one of those people to me.
One low-stress approach: after a couple of promising conversations, invite a potential friend to do something that you were interested in doing anyway—ideally with some other people. An example of what I’d like to hear from someone: “Oh, that’s cool that you like modern art—my friend and I were planning to check out this sculpture exhibit on Thursday, do you want to come along?”
So, you’re not putting a lot of pressure on them. You’re showing that you have something going on in your life. You're not getting into "Is this a date?" territory. If they say no, give it another shot at another time—and after that, I would let the relationship fall back into casual acquaintance territory unless they choose to initiate something.
posted by Mender at 1:46 PM on January 9, 2009 [1 favorite]
One low-stress approach: after a couple of promising conversations, invite a potential friend to do something that you were interested in doing anyway—ideally with some other people. An example of what I’d like to hear from someone: “Oh, that’s cool that you like modern art—my friend and I were planning to check out this sculpture exhibit on Thursday, do you want to come along?”
So, you’re not putting a lot of pressure on them. You’re showing that you have something going on in your life. You're not getting into "Is this a date?" territory. If they say no, give it another shot at another time—and after that, I would let the relationship fall back into casual acquaintance territory unless they choose to initiate something.
posted by Mender at 1:46 PM on January 9, 2009 [1 favorite]
agatha_magatha: Beautiful, thank you!
Me: I act friendly. As if we are already friends, just aware that on a social level we are just starting to define a relationship.
How are you with your friends? I am genuine, connected, curious, appreciative, kind.
Whatever your friendship qualities are, relax into them, say hi and see if the other is interested, too.
Good luck.
posted by andreinla at 1:47 PM on January 9, 2009
Me: I act friendly. As if we are already friends, just aware that on a social level we are just starting to define a relationship.
How are you with your friends? I am genuine, connected, curious, appreciative, kind.
Whatever your friendship qualities are, relax into them, say hi and see if the other is interested, too.
Good luck.
posted by andreinla at 1:47 PM on January 9, 2009
I had someone come to me and say, I really think we should stay in touch and become good friends. I was incredibly moved and hadn't even thought about it before. Now we are very good friends.
posted by sweetkid at 1:48 PM on January 9, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by sweetkid at 1:48 PM on January 9, 2009 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Does someone showing strong interest in you ever turn you off from a person who you might've been friends with otherwise?
Yes, but in very specific, avoidable ways. One way is assuming too much about me, too soon. (The aforementioned "we like the same books, let's hang out!") I would rather dodge this person than worry about correcting all of their mistaken assumptions in a way that isn't hurtful. Similarly, people who ask me to do things with them before they know how my life works will make me dodge them. If I don't know you well enough to be comfortable explaining exactly why I can't go out after work on Thursdays, it will be simpler for me to avoid the whole thing.
Personally, I can't go from chats at happy hour directly to lunch dates. I have a backlog of promised lunch dates that I'm still working through. But I can go from chats at happy hour to email conversation, which, if it reveals interesting common ground that isn't already covered by my existing friends, will eventually lead not to a lunch date but an outing wherein we explore the common ground. Lunch dates come much, much later, as a way of catching up with important significant friends.
Specific example: I met a woman at a friend's party and spent 10 enjoyable minutes chatting with her. She was very nice and shared a few of my interests, one of which is art. She emailed me a few days later suggesting we go out sometime and look at art. I have never written her back. Her interest in me doesn't make me feel great. I mean, it's nice that she liked me and all, but she had nothing to go on! What's to like, already? Her interest leads me to assume she is looking for friends, any friends. Had she emailed about a specific exhibition that she thought we'd both like based on our conversation, well, I still wouldn't have gone but at least I'd have written her back about it, and had the ensuing conversation been good, it might have led to a friendship. Or had she arranged a group outing that included our mutual friend, I would have considered going.
So, my advice would be to pursue the specific connections you feel with these people, by following up on chats with links to relevant websites/articles or lending DVDs or arranging group outings and including them in the invitations, but hold off on escalating to one-on-one friendship till you know how their life works. If you don't know that their dog is dying, their SO has just lost a job, etc., they might just run away rather than go through the difficulty of explaining it to a relative stranger.
posted by xo at 1:59 PM on January 9, 2009 [2 favorites]
Yes, but in very specific, avoidable ways. One way is assuming too much about me, too soon. (The aforementioned "we like the same books, let's hang out!") I would rather dodge this person than worry about correcting all of their mistaken assumptions in a way that isn't hurtful. Similarly, people who ask me to do things with them before they know how my life works will make me dodge them. If I don't know you well enough to be comfortable explaining exactly why I can't go out after work on Thursdays, it will be simpler for me to avoid the whole thing.
Personally, I can't go from chats at happy hour directly to lunch dates. I have a backlog of promised lunch dates that I'm still working through. But I can go from chats at happy hour to email conversation, which, if it reveals interesting common ground that isn't already covered by my existing friends, will eventually lead not to a lunch date but an outing wherein we explore the common ground. Lunch dates come much, much later, as a way of catching up with important significant friends.
Specific example: I met a woman at a friend's party and spent 10 enjoyable minutes chatting with her. She was very nice and shared a few of my interests, one of which is art. She emailed me a few days later suggesting we go out sometime and look at art. I have never written her back. Her interest in me doesn't make me feel great. I mean, it's nice that she liked me and all, but she had nothing to go on! What's to like, already? Her interest leads me to assume she is looking for friends, any friends. Had she emailed about a specific exhibition that she thought we'd both like based on our conversation, well, I still wouldn't have gone but at least I'd have written her back about it, and had the ensuing conversation been good, it might have led to a friendship. Or had she arranged a group outing that included our mutual friend, I would have considered going.
So, my advice would be to pursue the specific connections you feel with these people, by following up on chats with links to relevant websites/articles or lending DVDs or arranging group outings and including them in the invitations, but hold off on escalating to one-on-one friendship till you know how their life works. If you don't know that their dog is dying, their SO has just lost a job, etc., they might just run away rather than go through the difficulty of explaining it to a relative stranger.
posted by xo at 1:59 PM on January 9, 2009 [2 favorites]
Honestly, xo's avoidance of replying seems weird to me. Spontaneous get-togethers with new people can lead to some really fun events and friendships, and I can see nothing wrong with the desire to make more friends. It's the people who don't reply at all to casual invites that aren't worth my time, but it's a personal thing.
It's true though that confident, comfortable people are more likely to be received well when they try to strike a bond. Attempts from the super shy, socially awkward, or too persistent just have an aura of impending drama.
posted by Bakuun at 2:20 PM on January 9, 2009 [6 favorites]
It's true though that confident, comfortable people are more likely to be received well when they try to strike a bond. Attempts from the super shy, socially awkward, or too persistent just have an aura of impending drama.
posted by Bakuun at 2:20 PM on January 9, 2009 [6 favorites]
I agree, I have been the person xo met at a party who then mentioned, "let's hang out!" and it often works for me.
posted by sweetkid at 2:29 PM on January 9, 2009
posted by sweetkid at 2:29 PM on January 9, 2009
Best answer: "What makes the difference between "You think I'm really awesome-- that makes me feel good and I like being around you" and "You think I'm really awesome-- I'm uncomfortable and this is awkward"?
I agree with pazazygeek's assertion that it's one's impression of the would-be friend that makes the difference. A person who seems to be lacking in some significant way (lack of engagement in his or her own life, lack of interests or opinions, lack of social skills, etc.) telegraphs with their interest in friendship the possibility that that friendship may require a lot of work on the part of the other person.
Further, people who are too enthusiastic about anything before they really know much about it strike me as a little insincere. If they're excited about the discovery of a new Somethig (yoga, Linux, me as a potential friend, you get the idea) that's a little different.
I think there's more to me than can be learned in a brief meeting or two, and I suspect most people feel the same way about themselves. A person who talks to me for ten minutes at a party and then wants to be my BFF makes me feel like a sort of human "impulse item." If they're that split-second-decision about making friends, how are they at keeping them? Are they going to be a flake?
posted by Flipping_Hades_Terwilliger at 2:39 PM on January 9, 2009 [1 favorite]
I agree with pazazygeek's assertion that it's one's impression of the would-be friend that makes the difference. A person who seems to be lacking in some significant way (lack of engagement in his or her own life, lack of interests or opinions, lack of social skills, etc.) telegraphs with their interest in friendship the possibility that that friendship may require a lot of work on the part of the other person.
Further, people who are too enthusiastic about anything before they really know much about it strike me as a little insincere. If they're excited about the discovery of a new Somethig (yoga, Linux, me as a potential friend, you get the idea) that's a little different.
I think there's more to me than can be learned in a brief meeting or two, and I suspect most people feel the same way about themselves. A person who talks to me for ten minutes at a party and then wants to be my BFF makes me feel like a sort of human "impulse item." If they're that split-second-decision about making friends, how are they at keeping them? Are they going to be a flake?
posted by Flipping_Hades_Terwilliger at 2:39 PM on January 9, 2009 [1 favorite]
I am a total friend stalker.
Trying, or as some would surely say, trying too hard, is going to lead to some percentage of rejection. But certainly your success rate will be much higher than if you didn't try at all.
I try not to take the rejection too personally. Some people are really busy. Some people just don't click with me. Some people resent me or dislike me for the same reasons that I actually rather like myself. Just keep being yourself, and being friendly to the people you like.
posted by Juliet Banana at 2:53 PM on January 9, 2009 [2 favorites]
Trying, or as some would surely say, trying too hard, is going to lead to some percentage of rejection. But certainly your success rate will be much higher than if you didn't try at all.
I try not to take the rejection too personally. Some people are really busy. Some people just don't click with me. Some people resent me or dislike me for the same reasons that I actually rather like myself. Just keep being yourself, and being friendly to the people you like.
posted by Juliet Banana at 2:53 PM on January 9, 2009 [2 favorites]
I think there's a fine line and you won't know it in advance.
I knew someone who, when they moved to the town in which I lived and started making friends in my circle, really, truly tried too hard. Gifts given were inappropriate (very expensive), favors offered were totally out of proportion. I liked this person but it was very draining being around them. When a group of us traveled out of town I was adamant that this new person could not be part of the group, that I couldn't take it.
A year or two later they mellowed out and 8 years later they are one of my closest friends. But they were much happier and liked themselves a lot more, they weren't walking around always apologizing for their very presence.
So, Pazazygeek has it.
posted by micawber at 3:03 PM on January 9, 2009
I knew someone who, when they moved to the town in which I lived and started making friends in my circle, really, truly tried too hard. Gifts given were inappropriate (very expensive), favors offered were totally out of proportion. I liked this person but it was very draining being around them. When a group of us traveled out of town I was adamant that this new person could not be part of the group, that I couldn't take it.
A year or two later they mellowed out and 8 years later they are one of my closest friends. But they were much happier and liked themselves a lot more, they weren't walking around always apologizing for their very presence.
So, Pazazygeek has it.
posted by micawber at 3:03 PM on January 9, 2009
Best answer: I don't think it's a mistake to try to follow up with someone you've really connected with or not to let someone cool drop off the face of the earth if you haven't heard from them in a while. Having been on the receiving end of this, I usually appreciate it. The key may be the intensity/proportionality of the follow through. A Facebook howdy from someone I had an amazing conversation with who I thought I'd like to chat with again? Super. The guy I dated for two weeks who, eight years later, invited me to his very small wedding after seeing me one time after he moved away? A little too much.
If you feel self-conscious, you can always make the follow through by e-mail/social networking site and limit it to the thing you have in common. Like, if you discussed the awesomeness of Murakami and a few weeks later you see that there's an exhibit up, that's easy and less out on a limb than "We should totally hang out, yo!"
In the end, even when someone comes on a little strong, if it comes from a good place, it's not a big deal. I have two dear friends, both of whom initially came on so strong, I was sure they were hitting on me. If the person you're dealing with is worth being friends with, they'll cut you a little slack.
posted by *s at 3:12 PM on January 9, 2009 [2 favorites]
If you feel self-conscious, you can always make the follow through by e-mail/social networking site and limit it to the thing you have in common. Like, if you discussed the awesomeness of Murakami and a few weeks later you see that there's an exhibit up, that's easy and less out on a limb than "We should totally hang out, yo!"
In the end, even when someone comes on a little strong, if it comes from a good place, it's not a big deal. I have two dear friends, both of whom initially came on so strong, I was sure they were hitting on me. If the person you're dealing with is worth being friends with, they'll cut you a little slack.
posted by *s at 3:12 PM on January 9, 2009 [2 favorites]
I feel compelled to bring up the whole Introvert vs Extrovert thing. Just because someone doesn't reply in what you consider to be an enthusiastic manner, it doesn't mean they don't like you. We extreme Introverts are easily socially exhausted. If you are an Extrovert, then you may be reading irritation or bristlyness where there is really just fatigue.
Often making friends with an Introvert will take a lot longer than it would with an Extrovert. In the long run, you may always be the initiator of certain things (my friends always have to call me, but I usually start the email conversations). Hopefully you are okay with that if they still act as if they like you when you're together, because they do like you.
What I hate, and what will cause me to label someone as a friend stalker, is when they just won't leave me alone after I ask them to and/or when they point out to everyone that I am shy. I already know I'm shy. The suggestion above about asking them to do two low pressure things and then dropping it if they say no to both is good.
posted by soelo at 3:22 PM on January 9, 2009 [1 favorite]
Often making friends with an Introvert will take a lot longer than it would with an Extrovert. In the long run, you may always be the initiator of certain things (my friends always have to call me, but I usually start the email conversations). Hopefully you are okay with that if they still act as if they like you when you're together, because they do like you.
What I hate, and what will cause me to label someone as a friend stalker, is when they just won't leave me alone after I ask them to and/or when they point out to everyone that I am shy. I already know I'm shy. The suggestion above about asking them to do two low pressure things and then dropping it if they say no to both is good.
posted by soelo at 3:22 PM on January 9, 2009 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I'm uncomfortable with anyone who just met me thinking I'm really awesome. There's just too much expectation there. However, someone thinking specific things about me are awesome is OK. It shows that someone has been paying attention to our interaction and doesn't burden me with the expectation of living up to someone's idealized version of me as an Awesome Person.
There was a person I used to see at parties that terrified me: I had met her through mutual friends at other parties and had sort of hung out (well, ridden in a van) with her at Burning Man. She would reach for my hand, hold it tight, look deep into my eyes and say "I really miss you. We need to hang out some time." My thoughts were always you don't even know me and let go of my hand. Eep. It all seemed melodramatic and manipulative and completely self-focused. An action more about her than about me.
That's sort of the key to not seeming desperate and needy, I think. It's hard though, by nature I am relatively introspective and not always a seeker out of other people, even when I enjoy their company. So I'm not sure you should take lack of action as disinterest in every case. Be friendly to whoever you want whenever you want, and leave them an out. Seems to work pretty well.
posted by oneirodynia at 3:23 PM on January 9, 2009 [6 favorites]
There was a person I used to see at parties that terrified me: I had met her through mutual friends at other parties and had sort of hung out (well, ridden in a van) with her at Burning Man. She would reach for my hand, hold it tight, look deep into my eyes and say "I really miss you. We need to hang out some time." My thoughts were always you don't even know me and let go of my hand. Eep. It all seemed melodramatic and manipulative and completely self-focused. An action more about her than about me.
That's sort of the key to not seeming desperate and needy, I think. It's hard though, by nature I am relatively introspective and not always a seeker out of other people, even when I enjoy their company. So I'm not sure you should take lack of action as disinterest in every case. Be friendly to whoever you want whenever you want, and leave them an out. Seems to work pretty well.
posted by oneirodynia at 3:23 PM on January 9, 2009 [6 favorites]
I base going trying to develop a friendship with someone on how I'm drawn to them, and don't think a lot about whether they'll be drawn to me. I think the things that draw me to them specifically are things that are most likely to make them drawn to me in particular also.
Ex. I saw a girl make a presentation at a seminar. I liked her openness; she thought outside the box, and didn't seem to care how others perceived her, but was just very engaging and enthusiastic about the topic. These are all qualities I appreciate. One thing was different about her which also drew me to want a friendship (there need to be differences as well as commonalities) and that was the ease with which she smiled, and engaged with just everyone. I decided I wanted to get to know her more. I didn't assume she'd want the same, but because of the aforementioned commonalities and differences, I DID begin to engage her in conversations whenever we were in proximity to one another. I commented on some things she'd said and done at the seminar, asked her questions. Our conversations gradually broadened to take in more about me and her outside of what originally had sparked my interest, and eventually we began getting together for coffee, etc. 15 years later we are very dear friends. This describes how I've made most of the friendships I have. I've begun with an awareness that this particular person is someone with whom I believe I'd like to spend time because of shared ideas, values, outlook...as well as qualities they possess that I may not, and hence especially appreciate. All of these things come up in our early conversations and lay the groundwork for our ongoing relationship.
I guess to get back to your original question, I think the important thing is whether you like someone, and why you like them...Set about getting to know them better as well as revealing enough about yourself to let them see if they'll feel the same tug toward you that you do toward them. In that process, both of you may learn you have a great future friendship, or that one of you isn't the other's cup of tea.
Oh, and once I have a friendship, I'm not going to let it languish and die because they move, or I'm busy, or they haven't called lately. I call, email...I do the work to maintain a relationship, if I really care about it. I have over 1/2 dozen of these friendships the oldest of which is 34 years...the most recent, about 7, and I'm always open to new friendships. I'm meeting a girl for coffee next week because I like her and have a feeling she'll like me when she gets to know me. I hope and believe we may each bring something to the other's life.
posted by mumstheword at 5:40 PM on January 9, 2009 [4 favorites]
Ex. I saw a girl make a presentation at a seminar. I liked her openness; she thought outside the box, and didn't seem to care how others perceived her, but was just very engaging and enthusiastic about the topic. These are all qualities I appreciate. One thing was different about her which also drew me to want a friendship (there need to be differences as well as commonalities) and that was the ease with which she smiled, and engaged with just everyone. I decided I wanted to get to know her more. I didn't assume she'd want the same, but because of the aforementioned commonalities and differences, I DID begin to engage her in conversations whenever we were in proximity to one another. I commented on some things she'd said and done at the seminar, asked her questions. Our conversations gradually broadened to take in more about me and her outside of what originally had sparked my interest, and eventually we began getting together for coffee, etc. 15 years later we are very dear friends. This describes how I've made most of the friendships I have. I've begun with an awareness that this particular person is someone with whom I believe I'd like to spend time because of shared ideas, values, outlook...as well as qualities they possess that I may not, and hence especially appreciate. All of these things come up in our early conversations and lay the groundwork for our ongoing relationship.
I guess to get back to your original question, I think the important thing is whether you like someone, and why you like them...Set about getting to know them better as well as revealing enough about yourself to let them see if they'll feel the same tug toward you that you do toward them. In that process, both of you may learn you have a great future friendship, or that one of you isn't the other's cup of tea.
Oh, and once I have a friendship, I'm not going to let it languish and die because they move, or I'm busy, or they haven't called lately. I call, email...I do the work to maintain a relationship, if I really care about it. I have over 1/2 dozen of these friendships the oldest of which is 34 years...the most recent, about 7, and I'm always open to new friendships. I'm meeting a girl for coffee next week because I like her and have a feeling she'll like me when she gets to know me. I hope and believe we may each bring something to the other's life.
posted by mumstheword at 5:40 PM on January 9, 2009 [4 favorites]
I've had this problem (on both ends). I've cut people off because of it, and failed to form friendships when I'm the one being too interested.
I think there's not really much to be done about it; unless you are always the one coming on too strong, then it's just random. Sometimes you'll find another person more interesting than they find you, and sometimes the reverse will happen; both things kind of suck and both can mean the end of (or non-beginning of) a friendship.
The only cure is to meet enough people that you do find some who like you about as much as you like them. And, when you meet someone whose company you really enjoy, then be aware of signals to cool it (including not responding to casual invites, as mentioned above). And cool it.
The other side, the "oh no this person won't go away" side? I don't have any advice for that. It sucks, and when it's gotten really bad I've always ended the friendship. Again, if this happens once or twice, I wouldn't worry; but if this happens with everyone you meet, you might consider getting advice from someone who can actually see your behavior in person and tell you what's wrong.
posted by nat at 5:43 PM on January 9, 2009 [1 favorite]
I think there's not really much to be done about it; unless you are always the one coming on too strong, then it's just random. Sometimes you'll find another person more interesting than they find you, and sometimes the reverse will happen; both things kind of suck and both can mean the end of (or non-beginning of) a friendship.
The only cure is to meet enough people that you do find some who like you about as much as you like them. And, when you meet someone whose company you really enjoy, then be aware of signals to cool it (including not responding to casual invites, as mentioned above). And cool it.
The other side, the "oh no this person won't go away" side? I don't have any advice for that. It sucks, and when it's gotten really bad I've always ended the friendship. Again, if this happens once or twice, I wouldn't worry; but if this happens with everyone you meet, you might consider getting advice from someone who can actually see your behavior in person and tell you what's wrong.
posted by nat at 5:43 PM on January 9, 2009 [1 favorite]
Does someone showing strong interest in you ever turn you off from a person who you might've been friends with otherwise?
Sometimes. Although, if I were just as interested in being friends with the person as they seemed in me, I wouldn't perceive their show of friendship as being excessive. If I weren't interested, that's when I would actually notice their level of interest as seriously eclipsing my own.
I think, especially online, people meet others that they think are pretty nifty and they'd like to get to know, but they don't really 'know' them. Person A might think that some kind of connection was made, but you don't have all the information: you don't really know Person B and, especially if Person B isn't very forceful, the interested party may not realize that their friendship isn't desired. And, certainly, if you're not interested and someone comes on very strong, it can be a huge turn-off. Overeagerness online is almost worse. For me, anyway, it makes me feel like my activity online is kind of monitored. It makes me dread coming to certain sites, and it even prevents me from updating my own sites, at times.
The thing about friendship, though, is that usually someone has to take a risk. Someone has to attempt to spark the friendship. Whether these friendships are in real life or online, my advice is: if you are truly interested in getting to know someone, put yourself out there, but pay attention to their signals (especially difficult online, I realize). If they don't seem as interested, either back off slightly or try to engage them in a different way. On second try, if they don't respond any more enthusiastically, consider it a lost cause. Overeagerness is one thing, but don't back off just because you're the one who is instigating conversation at first. If the response is reasonably good when you are talking to a desired friend, there is probably some interest. You might have to work a bit to get to their comfort level. Now, if said friend-candidate doesn't seek you out AND is very distant when you try to talk to them, and becomes increasingly so, you might want to take that as a bad sign.
I've been both the person who didn't realize that my 'friends' didn't like me and the person trying to figure out how to get people I didn't want to be friends with to leave me alone. In the first scenario, I was so dense that I went for a few years thinking all was fine (these were school friends). When I finally realized, I was mortified, and I wished that the person in question would have just told me that she didn't want to be friends. It still would have hurt, but I wouldn't have made a fool of myself for that time. In the second scenario (both in-person and online, but more so online), I haven't been direct about not being interested in a few people. I've tried unsuccessfully to get my point across gently, but I don't want to be mean. Basically, I respond to them as little as possible, and my communication is vague and not very personal. I attempt to use language that I had hoped would expose disinterest in the other person. It's difficult if you do kind of care about the other person's feelings. So, if communication (online or in-person) is very one-sided and kind of fizzles away or if it becomes vague, disinterested, and even selfish, especially in conversations that might traditionally be seen as 'getting to know you' opportunities, they probably are not interested. And, therefore, not worth your time. Everyone deserves people who find them fun and fascinating. You don't need to feel bad because someone isn't interested in you, and, unless you ask (awkward!), you don't necessarily know why the person isn't interested. It may not be you, really. They might not have the time to commit to another friend, or, if online, they might not want to have any friends that they have never known in person first. Some of the people I haven't been interested in through the years have other friends, so the fact that I didn't want to be friends (or that others didn't want to be friends with me) doesn't make anyone flawed. You just have to trust that if one of the two people isn't interested, it would be a lousy friendship.
I can't really comment on the male/female friendships. For a long time I was afraid to be friends with guys (I'm a girl, btw), and it wasn't unless guys approached me to be friends that that happened.
posted by Mael Oui at 10:26 PM on January 9, 2009 [1 favorite]
Sometimes. Although, if I were just as interested in being friends with the person as they seemed in me, I wouldn't perceive their show of friendship as being excessive. If I weren't interested, that's when I would actually notice their level of interest as seriously eclipsing my own.
I think, especially online, people meet others that they think are pretty nifty and they'd like to get to know, but they don't really 'know' them. Person A might think that some kind of connection was made, but you don't have all the information: you don't really know Person B and, especially if Person B isn't very forceful, the interested party may not realize that their friendship isn't desired. And, certainly, if you're not interested and someone comes on very strong, it can be a huge turn-off. Overeagerness online is almost worse. For me, anyway, it makes me feel like my activity online is kind of monitored. It makes me dread coming to certain sites, and it even prevents me from updating my own sites, at times.
The thing about friendship, though, is that usually someone has to take a risk. Someone has to attempt to spark the friendship. Whether these friendships are in real life or online, my advice is: if you are truly interested in getting to know someone, put yourself out there, but pay attention to their signals (especially difficult online, I realize). If they don't seem as interested, either back off slightly or try to engage them in a different way. On second try, if they don't respond any more enthusiastically, consider it a lost cause. Overeagerness is one thing, but don't back off just because you're the one who is instigating conversation at first. If the response is reasonably good when you are talking to a desired friend, there is probably some interest. You might have to work a bit to get to their comfort level. Now, if said friend-candidate doesn't seek you out AND is very distant when you try to talk to them, and becomes increasingly so, you might want to take that as a bad sign.
I've been both the person who didn't realize that my 'friends' didn't like me and the person trying to figure out how to get people I didn't want to be friends with to leave me alone. In the first scenario, I was so dense that I went for a few years thinking all was fine (these were school friends). When I finally realized, I was mortified, and I wished that the person in question would have just told me that she didn't want to be friends. It still would have hurt, but I wouldn't have made a fool of myself for that time. In the second scenario (both in-person and online, but more so online), I haven't been direct about not being interested in a few people. I've tried unsuccessfully to get my point across gently, but I don't want to be mean. Basically, I respond to them as little as possible, and my communication is vague and not very personal. I attempt to use language that I had hoped would expose disinterest in the other person. It's difficult if you do kind of care about the other person's feelings. So, if communication (online or in-person) is very one-sided and kind of fizzles away or if it becomes vague, disinterested, and even selfish, especially in conversations that might traditionally be seen as 'getting to know you' opportunities, they probably are not interested. And, therefore, not worth your time. Everyone deserves people who find them fun and fascinating. You don't need to feel bad because someone isn't interested in you, and, unless you ask (awkward!), you don't necessarily know why the person isn't interested. It may not be you, really. They might not have the time to commit to another friend, or, if online, they might not want to have any friends that they have never known in person first. Some of the people I haven't been interested in through the years have other friends, so the fact that I didn't want to be friends (or that others didn't want to be friends with me) doesn't make anyone flawed. You just have to trust that if one of the two people isn't interested, it would be a lousy friendship.
I can't really comment on the male/female friendships. For a long time I was afraid to be friends with guys (I'm a girl, btw), and it wasn't unless guys approached me to be friends that that happened.
posted by Mael Oui at 10:26 PM on January 9, 2009 [1 favorite]
Absolutely. If the person who is the clear initiator of the friendship is confident and relaxed and not needy, or overbearing.
Most of my good friendships were initiated by the other person. Really, I was choosen... and after a few weeks or a few phone calls or big smiles, I realized... wow! This person wants to be my friend!
I did meet a friend last year who was very ... insistent. I honestly thought she was trying to date me. I kinda backed out... and a year later, we've started hanging out again, and now everything's cool!
For whatever reasons, I tended to not be an active initiator of friendships. However, at a certain point a few years ago, I thought over how nice it was that people had pursued my friendship, and how great that felt, and I realized... by not being the initiator, not only was I missing out on potential new friendships, but also I was denying that wonderful feeling of being "picked out" to others.
So yeah, go out and initiate! Just be relaxed about it;)
posted by Locochona at 11:04 PM on January 9, 2009
Most of my good friendships were initiated by the other person. Really, I was choosen... and after a few weeks or a few phone calls or big smiles, I realized... wow! This person wants to be my friend!
I did meet a friend last year who was very ... insistent. I honestly thought she was trying to date me. I kinda backed out... and a year later, we've started hanging out again, and now everything's cool!
For whatever reasons, I tended to not be an active initiator of friendships. However, at a certain point a few years ago, I thought over how nice it was that people had pursued my friendship, and how great that felt, and I realized... by not being the initiator, not only was I missing out on potential new friendships, but also I was denying that wonderful feeling of being "picked out" to others.
So yeah, go out and initiate! Just be relaxed about it;)
posted by Locochona at 11:04 PM on January 9, 2009
Good question. The short answer is to do as much initiating as you want, then do a bit of follow through, but then proceed only on a reciprocal basis.
Sadly, you also need to allow for being rejected by being ignored. Many people can't say no directly, or can't say they aren't really interested and thus send mixed signals. A good rule of thumb is to pay attention to their actions (how much they take the initiative, how fast they reply, how often they forget to reply) rather than their words. If someone apologizes for poor communication because of their busy and crazy life, that can be code for disinterest.
In terms of starting a friendship, my approach is to make it about the subject areas of common interest. I don't call to chat, but call to talk about something specific that we share an interest in. I think it is also important to leave pauses for the other person to gracefully withdraw from a conversation. Don't be the person who talks so much that people have a hard time ending the conversation.
You need to have a sense how much communication and responsiveness you want and if you aren't getting it from a relationship, then you need to lower your expectations and look for new ones. The key is to accept people for what they are and how they behave. Clearly, you don't want to beg someone to be more involved with you. Nor do you want to be the one taking the initiative all the time. You can take the initiative a few times but then you have to back off and wait for their response. If it isn't what you want, then you need to keep looking. I don't mean you drop them as friends, but you resign yourself to them not being into you as much as you want.
Sometimes people who are in a committed romantic relationship don't have the time for new friends who are not in a couple. People with partners and kids, in my experience, have very little time for single friends. People who are workaholics or are simply very ambitious don't easily make new friends, unless they can further their goals.
posted by conrad53 at 1:08 PM on January 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
Sadly, you also need to allow for being rejected by being ignored. Many people can't say no directly, or can't say they aren't really interested and thus send mixed signals. A good rule of thumb is to pay attention to their actions (how much they take the initiative, how fast they reply, how often they forget to reply) rather than their words. If someone apologizes for poor communication because of their busy and crazy life, that can be code for disinterest.
In terms of starting a friendship, my approach is to make it about the subject areas of common interest. I don't call to chat, but call to talk about something specific that we share an interest in. I think it is also important to leave pauses for the other person to gracefully withdraw from a conversation. Don't be the person who talks so much that people have a hard time ending the conversation.
You need to have a sense how much communication and responsiveness you want and if you aren't getting it from a relationship, then you need to lower your expectations and look for new ones. The key is to accept people for what they are and how they behave. Clearly, you don't want to beg someone to be more involved with you. Nor do you want to be the one taking the initiative all the time. You can take the initiative a few times but then you have to back off and wait for their response. If it isn't what you want, then you need to keep looking. I don't mean you drop them as friends, but you resign yourself to them not being into you as much as you want.
Sometimes people who are in a committed romantic relationship don't have the time for new friends who are not in a couple. People with partners and kids, in my experience, have very little time for single friends. People who are workaholics or are simply very ambitious don't easily make new friends, unless they can further their goals.
posted by conrad53 at 1:08 PM on January 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
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posted by Free word order! at 12:51 PM on January 9, 2009