Dr. Sexy and Mrs. Hyde
January 27, 2006 8:21 PM Subscribe
How can I make my wife dress 'attractively/sexier' at work?
My wife is 30, 5'11", 149, 36DDD. When we go out, I get complements from other guys about her. She (objectively) quite good looking and stacked.
The problem is that, at work, she dresses like a middle-aged librarian - Very, very conservatively. 'Dowdy' is what I'd call it. She has complained about being passed over for two recent promotions by 'floozies' (not the term she used, but you know what I mean).
I cannot define the correct term for the 'Sexy Professional' dress code, but you've all seen it. I'm not talking trashy, but Professional first, expensive looking, yet sexy clothes. Money is not an issue - we/she can afford to buy just about anything, so recommendations about places to shop or styles are welcome too.
I've seen the research and had the first-hand experience where the more attractive someone is in the workplace, the better they fare. My wife is doing pretty well professionally, but I believe that she could definitely exploit this for gain.
ObRealityCheck: (a) I honestly, sincerely believe that she is what society belives is very attractive. (b) She may be passed over at work for other reasons, but she is a hard worker in every other aspect of life, so I have no reason to doubt her work stories.
Anon because she would *kill* me for asking this. :)
My wife is 30, 5'11", 149, 36DDD. When we go out, I get complements from other guys about her. She (objectively) quite good looking and stacked.
The problem is that, at work, she dresses like a middle-aged librarian - Very, very conservatively. 'Dowdy' is what I'd call it. She has complained about being passed over for two recent promotions by 'floozies' (not the term she used, but you know what I mean).
I cannot define the correct term for the 'Sexy Professional' dress code, but you've all seen it. I'm not talking trashy, but Professional first, expensive looking, yet sexy clothes. Money is not an issue - we/she can afford to buy just about anything, so recommendations about places to shop or styles are welcome too.
I've seen the research and had the first-hand experience where the more attractive someone is in the workplace, the better they fare. My wife is doing pretty well professionally, but I believe that she could definitely exploit this for gain.
ObRealityCheck: (a) I honestly, sincerely believe that she is what society belives is very attractive. (b) She may be passed over at work for other reasons, but she is a hard worker in every other aspect of life, so I have no reason to doubt her work stories.
Anon because she would *kill* me for asking this. :)
Maybe get her a personal shopper/stylist at somewhere expensive for a gift?
posted by glibhamdreck at 8:37 PM on January 27, 2006
posted by glibhamdreck at 8:37 PM on January 27, 2006
In addition to getting promoted, the floozies get hit on and harassed. Do you really want the bad with the good?
posted by smackfu at 8:57 PM on January 27, 2006
posted by smackfu at 8:57 PM on January 27, 2006
Does this sound like your wife? She doesn't really like to shop but finds joy in a good buy or something that looks really good on her. She has relatively nice clothes, but could be much more creative with the outfits she creates (i.e., she to hates pick out clothes in the morning so she goes for the same old thing time after time). Does she hate to iron? Does she loathe uncomfortable shoes? If this sounds like her (coming from personal experience) the only thing that will save her is a personal shopper. Or rather, personal shoppers. Most department stores have professional shoppers or fashion consultants or whatever they're called on staff. Although there may be a fee to use the service, they make their money off of commission when she buys something they recommend. So, it's actually not as expensive as it might first sound. Your wife may be hesitant at first, but she will wonder how she lived without it after the shopper has found a few good pieces.
posted by zharptitsa at 9:06 PM on January 27, 2006
posted by zharptitsa at 9:06 PM on January 27, 2006
Speaking as a woman, I certainly wouldn't want to be offered a promotion on the basis of having flashed my cleavage to my higher-ups. Nor do I welcome the stares at my tits and ass when I occasionally wear the "Sexy Professional" type of attire you're referring to.
Not to mention, your wife is her own person and perfectly capable of choosing her own attire. Let her wear what she wants. Christ.
posted by Meredith at 9:09 PM on January 27, 2006
Not to mention, your wife is her own person and perfectly capable of choosing her own attire. Let her wear what she wants. Christ.
posted by Meredith at 9:09 PM on January 27, 2006
Bloomingdales and Nordstrom (and likely Saks and Neiman's) offer free personal shopping assistance. They are nice and fashionable people, and would have a good idea of what an appropriate work look would be for her body.
If nothing else, heels + pencil skirt + button up fitted shirt is conservative yet very sexy. Theory is a fantastic work clothes brand, although their retail prices make me ill. Have your wife try on an outfit, and she might get smitten.
posted by gatorae at 9:10 PM on January 27, 2006
If nothing else, heels + pencil skirt + button up fitted shirt is conservative yet very sexy. Theory is a fantastic work clothes brand, although their retail prices make me ill. Have your wife try on an outfit, and she might get smitten.
posted by gatorae at 9:10 PM on January 27, 2006
Having read Meredith's post, I do want to add that I hope you're asking this question because it's your wife that wants to dress better because she knows it will make her feel better and perhaps appear more confident at work, which will be noticed by her supervisors, putting her in a better position for a promotion, etc. etc. (Notice I say dress better vs. dress "sexy" although it might mean the same thing because her inner sexiness won't be hidden by frumpy clothes.) But, if she is perfectly happy the way she dresses, then that's her choice.
posted by zharptitsa at 9:19 PM on January 27, 2006
posted by zharptitsa at 9:19 PM on January 27, 2006
A few points:
- The comment about wanting to be taken seriously in the office -- especially if your wife has characterized other women in terms similar to "floozie -- is probably a big issue here. Your wife is smart and capable, and wants to be taken seriously for her mind and talents. She's not your Barbie doll; there's a reason she would kill you if she knew you were asking this. Tread carefully, my anonymous friend.
- As a woman who dressed pretty dowdily my first couple of years out of college for the above reason, I can sympathize. For me, I had a lot trouble finding clothes in that elusive "middle ground" of which you speak. Not because they don't exist, but because dressing "sexy professional" comes down to one important factor: fit. This is the key to what you seek.
- Your wife is a 36DDD? This explains so much. The fact is, most off-the-rack shirts, sweaters and jackets are made to fit an average woman's bust size -- a B cup. At a 36 band size, your wife is smallish through the shoulders, but she's got a huge rack up front. That means sweaters that fit her through the shoulders, are literally painted on across the chest. Not a look a professional woman wants to wear! (FYI, I'm a 32 C-D, and this is becoming a serious issue for me.) In order to accomodate her large bust, she's buying shirts, sweaters and jackets that are too large across the shoulders, resulting in a poor fit and an overall "frumpy" look, because there's extra fabric bunching at the waist and shoulders.
My recommendation, since it seems you can afford it, is to gift her with a visit to a a tailor who can make her some custom fitted shirts and jackets. Once she has a good relationship with a tailor, he/she can also alter clothes she buys off the rack to fit her frame attractively. The personal shopping advice is all well and good, but at 5'11" with a 36DDD, your wife is a total Amazon babe. I'm not sure Nordstrom carries stuff tailored to fit a body like that.
posted by junkbox at 9:24 PM on January 27, 2006
- The comment about wanting to be taken seriously in the office -- especially if your wife has characterized other women in terms similar to "floozie -- is probably a big issue here. Your wife is smart and capable, and wants to be taken seriously for her mind and talents. She's not your Barbie doll; there's a reason she would kill you if she knew you were asking this. Tread carefully, my anonymous friend.
- As a woman who dressed pretty dowdily my first couple of years out of college for the above reason, I can sympathize. For me, I had a lot trouble finding clothes in that elusive "middle ground" of which you speak. Not because they don't exist, but because dressing "sexy professional" comes down to one important factor: fit. This is the key to what you seek.
- Your wife is a 36DDD? This explains so much. The fact is, most off-the-rack shirts, sweaters and jackets are made to fit an average woman's bust size -- a B cup. At a 36 band size, your wife is smallish through the shoulders, but she's got a huge rack up front. That means sweaters that fit her through the shoulders, are literally painted on across the chest. Not a look a professional woman wants to wear! (FYI, I'm a 32 C-D, and this is becoming a serious issue for me.) In order to accomodate her large bust, she's buying shirts, sweaters and jackets that are too large across the shoulders, resulting in a poor fit and an overall "frumpy" look, because there's extra fabric bunching at the waist and shoulders.
My recommendation, since it seems you can afford it, is to gift her with a visit to a a tailor who can make her some custom fitted shirts and jackets. Once she has a good relationship with a tailor, he/she can also alter clothes she buys off the rack to fit her frame attractively. The personal shopping advice is all well and good, but at 5'11" with a 36DDD, your wife is a total Amazon babe. I'm not sure Nordstrom carries stuff tailored to fit a body like that.
posted by junkbox at 9:24 PM on January 27, 2006
What a ridiculous question.
"How can I make my wife dress 'attractively/sexier' at work?"
You can't. She can dress herself. Obviously she chooses to dress one way for a reason, and since she's noticed that "floozies" get promoted but hasn't changed her personal style should tell you that she's not interested.
"My wife is doing pretty well professionally, but I believe that she could definitely exploit this for gain."
So your wife works in a place where slutting it up helps you get promoted and you want her to play along? Just tell her to sleep with the boss...it'll be easier on your checkbook than a new wardrobe, and probably more effective.
posted by apple scruff at 9:37 PM on January 27, 2006
"How can I make my wife dress 'attractively/sexier' at work?"
You can't. She can dress herself. Obviously she chooses to dress one way for a reason, and since she's noticed that "floozies" get promoted but hasn't changed her personal style should tell you that she's not interested.
"My wife is doing pretty well professionally, but I believe that she could definitely exploit this for gain."
So your wife works in a place where slutting it up helps you get promoted and you want her to play along? Just tell her to sleep with the boss...it'll be easier on your checkbook than a new wardrobe, and probably more effective.
posted by apple scruff at 9:37 PM on January 27, 2006
a) You can't. b) You shouldn't. c) Are you nuts?
I'm sitting here trying to get into the mindset of you, Anon, poster of this question, and I can't fathom what you're thinking. Unless this is part of a sexual fetish for you, in which case, talk it over with her.
Questions like this make me feel like an unwitting participant in mathowie's social experiment, soon to be published in lurid detail by Random House.
posted by ikkyu2 at 9:40 PM on January 27, 2006
I'm sitting here trying to get into the mindset of you, Anon, poster of this question, and I can't fathom what you're thinking. Unless this is part of a sexual fetish for you, in which case, talk it over with her.
Questions like this make me feel like an unwitting participant in mathowie's social experiment, soon to be published in lurid detail by Random House.
posted by ikkyu2 at 9:40 PM on January 27, 2006
FWIW I agree w/ junkbox, but I'll throw in that Nordstrom and those places also offer free tailoring, so it might not be a total waste of time. Shirts are a tough bet with those proportions, though, regardless of tailoring.
posted by gatorae at 9:55 PM on January 27, 2006
posted by gatorae at 9:55 PM on January 27, 2006
C'mon, if she's gotten this far in a career, and is confident dressing sexily on weekends, I seriously doubt she hasn't thought about the image she projects and work, and wouldn't have the means/know-how to change it if she wanted to.
Being sexy at work has a HUGE downside. Also, being "attractive" in the context that always comes up in those statistics is about more than being sexually attractive or seeming like someone a boss/coworker/customer might have a shot with. I think it's about stuff like a pleasant face, good skin and hair, warm eyes and a nice smile - the basic things that make people respond to someone - and want to look at their face.
posted by crabintheocean at 10:12 PM on January 27, 2006
Being sexy at work has a HUGE downside. Also, being "attractive" in the context that always comes up in those statistics is about more than being sexually attractive or seeming like someone a boss/coworker/customer might have a shot with. I think it's about stuff like a pleasant face, good skin and hair, warm eyes and a nice smile - the basic things that make people respond to someone - and want to look at their face.
posted by crabintheocean at 10:12 PM on January 27, 2006
Your wife's wardrobe may not be holding her back at work, but it may be symptomatic of something that is. Something you might discuss with her is whether she dresses the way she does because her figure makes her feel she needs to hide. *That* could be a legitimate issue you could encourage her to address. She certainly shouldn't have to flaunt the goods to get recognized for her work, but if a desire to keep a low profile at the office is keeping her from being as assertive or outgoing as she might otherwise be, maybe there's something you can do to help her to become more confident in her appearance and her value at work.
posted by MonkeyMeat at 11:14 PM on January 27, 2006
posted by MonkeyMeat at 11:14 PM on January 27, 2006
As another busty (yet a half foot shorter) female, I bet she doesn't know how to dress in a way that isn't trashy but is still flattering. I learned more from the woman who critiqued my outfit when getting fitted for a wedding dress than I could have learned anywhere else.
Have her go to an expensive boutique. Even if she doesn't buy anything, she should pay attention the the BS sounding things the employees say about color and fit and "lines."
I'm a bit disappointed that I was 24 when I learned these fashion secrets, but I honestly feel those seemingly airheaded fashion experts do know a few things about the body and how clothes can make it look.
posted by frecklefaerie at 12:07 AM on January 28, 2006
Have her go to an expensive boutique. Even if she doesn't buy anything, she should pay attention the the BS sounding things the employees say about color and fit and "lines."
I'm a bit disappointed that I was 24 when I learned these fashion secrets, but I honestly feel those seemingly airheaded fashion experts do know a few things about the body and how clothes can make it look.
posted by frecklefaerie at 12:07 AM on January 28, 2006
Read Ibsen's "A Doll's House." Take that view to heart, and don't try to change her if she doesn't want to do it.
posted by devilsbrigade at 12:47 AM on January 28, 2006
posted by devilsbrigade at 12:47 AM on January 28, 2006
Replace "sexy" with "modern" and I think you'd be on steadier ground. There's no need to mix sex appeal into the equation when talking about a woman dressing better for work.
An equivalent to your question could be if a man were going to his office job in tweed blazers with patches on the elbows and non-matching trousers and then complaining that the guys who were sharper dressers were getting promotions. I'd tell him he needed to dress "smarter", not "hotter."
My uniform as a consultant is dark colored pantsuits with or without subtle pin-stripes, crisply-ironed button-down shirts, high heels (but not stripper-high!) and interesting but not over-the-top necklaces. It's boring, but it works, and it's a shortcut to getting respect quickly.
Maybe your wife doesn't need to go that far overnight, but there are some simple things she could do to look less dowdy. Replace any cardigans with blazers, for example. Wear good shoes.
posted by hazyjane at 2:02 AM on January 28, 2006
An equivalent to your question could be if a man were going to his office job in tweed blazers with patches on the elbows and non-matching trousers and then complaining that the guys who were sharper dressers were getting promotions. I'd tell him he needed to dress "smarter", not "hotter."
My uniform as a consultant is dark colored pantsuits with or without subtle pin-stripes, crisply-ironed button-down shirts, high heels (but not stripper-high!) and interesting but not over-the-top necklaces. It's boring, but it works, and it's a shortcut to getting respect quickly.
Maybe your wife doesn't need to go that far overnight, but there are some simple things she could do to look less dowdy. Replace any cardigans with blazers, for example. Wear good shoes.
posted by hazyjane at 2:02 AM on January 28, 2006
I'm not a fashion expert, but I agree with odinsdream the minute I read the question. If she reads this site, you are soooo dead. And in fact, you may contribute to other husbands death that happen to have a wife that reads the site with the same or similar measurements. Eeek.
If you're still alive to keep reading, there's really not much you can do. Find her a tailor, like a few others have said, and personally go with what MonkeyMeat said. She may (or may not) be dressing that way because of some self-conciousness in her particular frame. A good husband can help with confidence, and a good tailor will do that as well, and provide custom fitted, better looking, better feeling clothing.
And definatly switch the term 'sexy' to 'modern'. hazyjane has it totally right there.
posted by Phynix at 3:29 AM on January 28, 2006
If you're still alive to keep reading, there's really not much you can do. Find her a tailor, like a few others have said, and personally go with what MonkeyMeat said. She may (or may not) be dressing that way because of some self-conciousness in her particular frame. A good husband can help with confidence, and a good tailor will do that as well, and provide custom fitted, better looking, better feeling clothing.
And definatly switch the term 'sexy' to 'modern'. hazyjane has it totally right there.
posted by Phynix at 3:29 AM on January 28, 2006
In the unlikely event your wife actually wants to change her wardrobe, I agree with those who suggest an expensive tailor. Otherwise, I agree with this:
Let her wear what she wants. Christ.
posted by languagehat at 5:36 AM on January 28, 2006
Let her wear what she wants. Christ.
posted by languagehat at 5:36 AM on January 28, 2006
I find it impolite (to put it mildly) that other men feel free to comment to you regarding your wife's attractiveness. My husband wouldn't enjoy hearing those things; it would be seen as disrespectful.
Are you perhaps more invested in your wife being seen as sexy than she is?
As far as her getting more professional mileage out of her looks, second the 'dress sharper, not sexier' suggestion above.
posted by gai at 5:45 AM on January 28, 2006
Are you perhaps more invested in your wife being seen as sexy than she is?
As far as her getting more professional mileage out of her looks, second the 'dress sharper, not sexier' suggestion above.
posted by gai at 5:45 AM on January 28, 2006
The lady is a 36DD. Have you considered that she doesn't dress all hot n' sexy because she doesn't want men staring at her boobs all day long?
posted by madman at 5:46 AM on January 28, 2006
posted by madman at 5:46 AM on January 28, 2006
I don't think you should jump all over him. Granted, he asked the question in a bumbling way.... "sexy"???
I say this because I somewhat sympathize. My SO tends to dress down for work - oversized t-shirts and jeans. She is in the gaming industry, so it's expected to an extent. I do wish she dressed smarter (not sexier, but I think I understand what he's saying) as she has gotten passed over for promotions before. This isn't a cut-and-dry thing - she's also gotten some promotions but for the most part seems to be stuck at a certain level. I know how smart and what a workaholic she is, so I'm fairly certain that a more confidence-inspiring look would help her. Not sure how to broach the subject without sounding like a jerk though.
Anyway, my point is, don't pile on the guy - he's got a legitimate concern if maybe worded a little dunderheadedly.
posted by melt away at 6:14 AM on January 28, 2006
I say this because I somewhat sympathize. My SO tends to dress down for work - oversized t-shirts and jeans. She is in the gaming industry, so it's expected to an extent. I do wish she dressed smarter (not sexier, but I think I understand what he's saying) as she has gotten passed over for promotions before. This isn't a cut-and-dry thing - she's also gotten some promotions but for the most part seems to be stuck at a certain level. I know how smart and what a workaholic she is, so I'm fairly certain that a more confidence-inspiring look would help her. Not sure how to broach the subject without sounding like a jerk though.
Anyway, my point is, don't pile on the guy - he's got a legitimate concern if maybe worded a little dunderheadedly.
posted by melt away at 6:14 AM on January 28, 2006
posted anonymously on behalf of another MeFite:
My Mom was a retail store manager a little over ten years ago. She was good for sales, but she didn't wear make-up or heels. She was instructed that it was a problem once in a while, I expect she even made some very marginal concessions, although I can't recall every detail. Soon after a management shake-up she was fired with a years severance pay, I guess some parts of management tolerated her fashion sense more than others. She considered fighting it - to get more severance, or whatever, but she decided to take the money and run. Within the year the company declared bankruptcy.
The point of all that being, life happens. Just because you can exploit something for gain doesn't mean you should, and please don't dare dictate what someone else chooses. By all means, talk it over, make sure you are both conscious of all the implications. From your description however, I bet she knows exactly what she is doing.
John Lennon sang "Woman is the nigger of the world."
posted by jessamyn at 6:24 AM on January 28, 2006
My Mom was a retail store manager a little over ten years ago. She was good for sales, but she didn't wear make-up or heels. She was instructed that it was a problem once in a while, I expect she even made some very marginal concessions, although I can't recall every detail. Soon after a management shake-up she was fired with a years severance pay, I guess some parts of management tolerated her fashion sense more than others. She considered fighting it - to get more severance, or whatever, but she decided to take the money and run. Within the year the company declared bankruptcy.
The point of all that being, life happens. Just because you can exploit something for gain doesn't mean you should, and please don't dare dictate what someone else chooses. By all means, talk it over, make sure you are both conscious of all the implications. From your description however, I bet she knows exactly what she is doing.
John Lennon sang "Woman is the nigger of the world."
posted by jessamyn at 6:24 AM on January 28, 2006
How do you dress for work? "Attractive/sexier"? I doubt it. Your wife sounds like a sensible woman.
posted by Carol Anne at 6:36 AM on January 28, 2006
posted by Carol Anne at 6:36 AM on January 28, 2006
I have this problem. Not that I'm overly-hot, but I'm busty, and I work in a professional setting. And, for a long time, I didn't know how to dress properly.
She needs to figure out which modern business-dress store has clothes that fit her. For me it's Ann Taylor. If she's taller, it might be Banana Republic. There are others. Go there, with an unlimited budget (actually, go to Ann Taylor RIGHT NOW - big sale). The clothes there are never "dowdy." Pick out a few suits, let the salespeople find matching shirts and accessories.
Once I got my wardrobe straightend out, I honestly felt more confident. Now I just have to put the effort into makeup.....
posted by dpx.mfx at 6:40 AM on January 28, 2006
She needs to figure out which modern business-dress store has clothes that fit her. For me it's Ann Taylor. If she's taller, it might be Banana Republic. There are others. Go there, with an unlimited budget (actually, go to Ann Taylor RIGHT NOW - big sale). The clothes there are never "dowdy." Pick out a few suits, let the salespeople find matching shirts and accessories.
Once I got my wardrobe straightend out, I honestly felt more confident. Now I just have to put the effort into makeup.....
posted by dpx.mfx at 6:40 AM on January 28, 2006
(Also, I agree that "making" her do this is a bad idea. And that "modern" in the word you're probably looking for.)
posted by dpx.mfx at 6:41 AM on January 28, 2006
posted by dpx.mfx at 6:41 AM on January 28, 2006
It's great that you find your wife to be a hottie. With the stats you provided, it's likely that a lot of other guys do too. She may be tired of being hit on. Speaking from experience, it is incredibly annoying to be talking to someone who isn't looking me in the face but instead is staring about a foot lower.
Yes, she might be able to exploit her looks for professional gain, with the undesired effect that everyone is whispering behind her back that she only got the promotion 'cause the boss has the hots for her. Consider how incredibly disempowering that kind of gossip can be.
If you are still thinking about going there, third using the term "modern" instead. But proceed very, very carefully.
posted by ambrosia at 7:47 AM on January 28, 2006 [1 favorite]
Yes, she might be able to exploit her looks for professional gain, with the undesired effect that everyone is whispering behind her back that she only got the promotion 'cause the boss has the hots for her. Consider how incredibly disempowering that kind of gossip can be.
If you are still thinking about going there, third using the term "modern" instead. But proceed very, very carefully.
posted by ambrosia at 7:47 AM on January 28, 2006 [1 favorite]
Anyway, my point is, don't pile on the guy - he's got a legitimate concern if maybe worded a little dunderheadedly.
No, he doesn't. He might have a legitimate concern if he had said something to the effect of "My wife wants to dress smarter/more modern/professionally in the workplace, as she is concerned that her overly-conservative appearance is causing her to be overlooked." Instead, he said "How can I make my wife dress 'attractively/sexier' at work?" and the nausea-inducing "I believe that she could definitely exploit this for gain."
Which is more or less akin to saying "how can I convince my wife to flash a little more of her 36DDDs at work so her male superiors think with their dicks and promote her and she can bring home more bacon?"
He also says that his wife has complained of getting passed over for "floozies" (his term), which suggests to me that her complaint might very well be that she wants to be judged by her merits and job performance, and not how much skin she shows in the office. Convincing her to show more skin is not exactly a way to remedy this problem.
If it's actually his wife who would like to makeover her appearance but doesn't know where to begin or is having trouble finding clothes that flatter her figure, then a lot of the above is good advice. But the way he posed the question, how can he MAKE her, and how can he help her exploit her assets, and that she would kill him for posting this, all lead me to believe that he thinks of his wife as some doll he can dress up. HE is the one who wants to exploit his wife's appearance for financial gain. If he's getting piled on, it's because he's being a mysoginistic asshat, and deserves to be verbally bitch-slapped.
posted by Meredith at 7:54 AM on January 28, 2006
No, he doesn't. He might have a legitimate concern if he had said something to the effect of "My wife wants to dress smarter/more modern/professionally in the workplace, as she is concerned that her overly-conservative appearance is causing her to be overlooked." Instead, he said "How can I make my wife dress 'attractively/sexier' at work?" and the nausea-inducing "I believe that she could definitely exploit this for gain."
Which is more or less akin to saying "how can I convince my wife to flash a little more of her 36DDDs at work so her male superiors think with their dicks and promote her and she can bring home more bacon?"
He also says that his wife has complained of getting passed over for "floozies" (his term), which suggests to me that her complaint might very well be that she wants to be judged by her merits and job performance, and not how much skin she shows in the office. Convincing her to show more skin is not exactly a way to remedy this problem.
If it's actually his wife who would like to makeover her appearance but doesn't know where to begin or is having trouble finding clothes that flatter her figure, then a lot of the above is good advice. But the way he posed the question, how can he MAKE her, and how can he help her exploit her assets, and that she would kill him for posting this, all lead me to believe that he thinks of his wife as some doll he can dress up. HE is the one who wants to exploit his wife's appearance for financial gain. If he's getting piled on, it's because he's being a mysoginistic asshat, and deserves to be verbally bitch-slapped.
posted by Meredith at 7:54 AM on January 28, 2006
I can't imagine too many job environments where dressing "sexy" at work is an issue. Does she work at Hooters or a strip club? Then it could be a problem, yes. OTOH, a lot of guys who go to strip clubs get off on that "conservative exterior/wild slutty lingerie underneath look". I know I get really hot by that. Buy her some hot lingerie and maybe tell her to "go for it" when at work. She will get promotions like you wouldn't believe.
Seriously, get real. If you try to control her to dress inappropriately at work against her desires, then you may be looking for another wife soon.
posted by JJ86 at 8:21 AM on January 28, 2006
Seriously, get real. If you try to control her to dress inappropriately at work against her desires, then you may be looking for another wife soon.
posted by JJ86 at 8:21 AM on January 28, 2006
My g/f is much smaller than your wife, anon, but she is known as a skilled and sharp dresser. I know that she prefers the Victoria's Secret Catalog for excellent clothes that fit herstyle and body type well. She has praised them repeatedly for their quality, style and outstanding return policy.
YMMV
posted by Jonasio at 8:54 AM on January 28, 2006
YMMV
posted by Jonasio at 8:54 AM on January 28, 2006
Perhaps what you should make your wife do is quit this job and work somewhere that dressing sexier would allow her to get ahead. I would suggest you turn her out. Then you could reap the visual rewards of making your wife dress like a slut, as well as the financial rewards of making your wife use her physical appearance for financial gain. Then she wouldn't be subjected to the pain of attempting to be taken serious for her intelligence or skills, and could rely solely on her large breasts - the type of asset you and her bosses seem to value the most in women - for success.
Your poor wife. As if it's not enough that her bosses are the kind of men who ignore substance for tits, she has to come home to that same bullshit, too.
posted by jennyb at 10:17 AM on January 28, 2006
Your poor wife. As if it's not enough that her bosses are the kind of men who ignore substance for tits, she has to come home to that same bullshit, too.
posted by jennyb at 10:17 AM on January 28, 2006
That's a little harsh, jennyb, though it did make me chuckle.
I hope anonymous finds a way to comment in this thread (you can e-mail jessamyn, who would I'm sure be glad to post it for you, as would I for that matter), because I suspect (I hope) he didn't mean it to come out the way it sounds.
posted by languagehat at 10:57 AM on January 28, 2006
I hope anonymous finds a way to comment in this thread (you can e-mail jessamyn, who would I'm sure be glad to post it for you, as would I for that matter), because I suspect (I hope) he didn't mean it to come out the way it sounds.
posted by languagehat at 10:57 AM on January 28, 2006
It's too bad the green has once again decided to pile upon an anonymous asker and proudly display their simplistic 1950's liberal morality. I guess brave mefites just can't pass up the opportunity to do the Right Thing (tm) On the Internet.
Anyways anon, there's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting your wife to dress more attractively. You've got nothing to be ashamed of and can safely ignore many of the "helpful" suggestions in this thread. But, I think you're just going about this wrong way. Instead of looking for specific suggestions on clothing and shops and the such, you should just tell your wife that you want her to dress a bit sexier and let her take it from there. When she asks why, tell her the truth: (1) it'll make you feel better since you want the whole world to see how beautiful she is (2) it may help her feel better about herself (it sounds like she may be ashamed or embarassed of her body to an extent) (3) it may help her career since people will see her as a more modern, competitive, and desirable woman--it'll open doors in a competitive work place. At this point, the ball is in her court. But, go ahead and ask. You've got nothing to lose: either your wife will just say flat out no, she'll be willing to experiment, or she'll say be all for it. In all situations she'll know you're looking for out her and, yeah, you think she's gorgeous.
posted by nixerman at 11:42 AM on January 28, 2006
Anyways anon, there's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting your wife to dress more attractively. You've got nothing to be ashamed of and can safely ignore many of the "helpful" suggestions in this thread. But, I think you're just going about this wrong way. Instead of looking for specific suggestions on clothing and shops and the such, you should just tell your wife that you want her to dress a bit sexier and let her take it from there. When she asks why, tell her the truth: (1) it'll make you feel better since you want the whole world to see how beautiful she is (2) it may help her feel better about herself (it sounds like she may be ashamed or embarassed of her body to an extent) (3) it may help her career since people will see her as a more modern, competitive, and desirable woman--it'll open doors in a competitive work place. At this point, the ball is in her court. But, go ahead and ask. You've got nothing to lose: either your wife will just say flat out no, she'll be willing to experiment, or she'll say be all for it. In all situations she'll know you're looking for out her and, yeah, you think she's gorgeous.
posted by nixerman at 11:42 AM on January 28, 2006
He also says that his wife has complained of getting passed over for "floozies" (his term), which suggests to me that her complaint might very well be that she wants to be judged by her merits and job performance, and not how much skin she shows in the office. Convincing her to show more skin is not exactly a way to remedy this problem.
I'll also just go on to say that the above sentiment is pretty much false. In the real world, how you dress and how you present yourself has an enormous effect on your perceived job performance. In this particular case it's possible that your wife's talent is being ignored for the simple reason that nobody notices her. Those that do notice her may mistake her conservative dress as that of a conservative, boring, person with little self-confidence. Convincing her to "show more skin"--which is, of course, not what you want her to do at all but whatever--may be just the thing for her to get the attention she needs to get ahead and for people to change their perceptions about her. The next time a promotion comes up her superiors will be far more likely to remember her name and thus her work performance if she's made an impression on them. What your wife calls "floozies" may be woman who're better able to create the perception of a modern (and thus hardworking), open, friendly person who's fun to be around. (In fact, it's quite likely since very few businesses today can afford to do the we'll-promote-all-the-untalented-but-hot-girls thing.)
posted by nixerman at 11:52 AM on January 28, 2006
I'll also just go on to say that the above sentiment is pretty much false. In the real world, how you dress and how you present yourself has an enormous effect on your perceived job performance. In this particular case it's possible that your wife's talent is being ignored for the simple reason that nobody notices her. Those that do notice her may mistake her conservative dress as that of a conservative, boring, person with little self-confidence. Convincing her to "show more skin"--which is, of course, not what you want her to do at all but whatever--may be just the thing for her to get the attention she needs to get ahead and for people to change their perceptions about her. The next time a promotion comes up her superiors will be far more likely to remember her name and thus her work performance if she's made an impression on them. What your wife calls "floozies" may be woman who're better able to create the perception of a modern (and thus hardworking), open, friendly person who's fun to be around. (In fact, it's quite likely since very few businesses today can afford to do the we'll-promote-all-the-untalented-but-hot-girls thing.)
posted by nixerman at 11:52 AM on January 28, 2006
Everyone has covered the more political aspects of this question, but I will second what someone else said about it being really hard to buy professional clothing when you're busty. You're describing a woman who probably has a little bitty waist and a lot of chest and shoulders, and daytime clothes don't come cut like that. (And yet party/evening/dressier clothes are generally cut for a generous bust, as if we're all Skipper dolls who can spin our arms and gain 3 cup sizes.)
You don't get to tell her how to dress. However, if she is interested in upgrading her wardrobe, she needs a great seamstress and/or tailor to make her some dress shirts that fit her and therefore look flattering and professional. That can be expensive, certainly more so than buying whatever will fit at a department store. If you need to make it clear that you aren't going to be put off or think she's being wasteful if she makes that investment, then that's where you can be supportive.
posted by Lyn Never at 11:57 AM on January 28, 2006
You don't get to tell her how to dress. However, if she is interested in upgrading her wardrobe, she needs a great seamstress and/or tailor to make her some dress shirts that fit her and therefore look flattering and professional. That can be expensive, certainly more so than buying whatever will fit at a department store. If you need to make it clear that you aren't going to be put off or think she's being wasteful if she makes that investment, then that's where you can be supportive.
posted by Lyn Never at 11:57 AM on January 28, 2006
I'll also just go on to say that the above sentiment is pretty much false.
Excuse me? Nixerman, have you ever had anyone stare at you, not listen to a word you are saying because he is undressing you with his eyes? Have you had this happen to you at work? Have you ever had anyone cop a feel uninvited? Have you had this happen at work? Have you ever had the experience of overhearing male co-workers speculate what size bra you wear? In my experience, everything Meredith said is 100% spot-on.
"Sexy" does not belong in the workplace. If anonymous had framed the question to say "My wife is really good at her job, but I think that because of the way she dresses, people don't see her as powerful and talented. I'd like to encourage her to dress in a way that takes advantage of her height to enhance her perceived authority, so that people take her seriously" that would have been less controversial.
I find it amusing at best that someone would hurl accusations of "1950's liberal morality" in one sentence and then encourage showing more skin to get noticed at work. Sheesh.
posted by ambrosia at 12:50 PM on January 28, 2006
Excuse me? Nixerman, have you ever had anyone stare at you, not listen to a word you are saying because he is undressing you with his eyes? Have you had this happen to you at work? Have you ever had anyone cop a feel uninvited? Have you had this happen at work? Have you ever had the experience of overhearing male co-workers speculate what size bra you wear? In my experience, everything Meredith said is 100% spot-on.
"Sexy" does not belong in the workplace. If anonymous had framed the question to say "My wife is really good at her job, but I think that because of the way she dresses, people don't see her as powerful and talented. I'd like to encourage her to dress in a way that takes advantage of her height to enhance her perceived authority, so that people take her seriously" that would have been less controversial.
I find it amusing at best that someone would hurl accusations of "1950's liberal morality" in one sentence and then encourage showing more skin to get noticed at work. Sheesh.
posted by ambrosia at 12:50 PM on January 28, 2006
ambrosia, your insistence on anon's framing of the question is stupid and unhelpful. All it does is display your own childish prejudices. In the real world, not all men are sex-starved animals who can't help but ogle men and not all women who dress sexy are Biblical sluts looking to use their wiles to gain power. Please. Next time keep the righteous indignation to yourself. Whether anon used the word "sexy" or "modern" or "Sex and the City-inspired" we all knew exactly what he meant. But once again mefites deliberately chose to assume the absolute worst about the poster and use the opportunity to condemn him while proudly displaying their own stupid beliefs. It's pathetic. Here's another amusing idea for you: instead of insisting that anon phrase the question in a manner that doesn't offend your PC sensibilities just stay out of the goddamn thread.
posted by nixerman at 1:11 PM on January 28, 2006
posted by nixerman at 1:11 PM on January 28, 2006
Well, I agree that comparing the poster to the husband in "A Doll's House" is beyond absurd (hint, the asker here cares about her getting ahead in her career, and isn't insecure about other men's compliments for her), but this isn't "change something relatively private because I'll find you sexier", it's "change to be sexier so you can get ahead at work". Which, admittedly, might be a concern she shares.
posted by Firas at 2:00 PM on January 28, 2006
posted by Firas at 2:00 PM on January 28, 2006
This discussion disturbs me more than anything I've ever read on here, and has assured I'll *never* be back.
I think that you are being blatantly obtuse by saying that "the specific details of the situation are unimportant." I do agree that the OP is essentially well-intentioned and believes he is being kind and helpful to his wife. But the terms "make her" are disturbing to any woman, because there is still a power imbalance on this planet between men and women, and the term "exploit" is also very, very unfortunate.
Asking someone to modify their appearance for personal enjoyment is a matter for debate. Wanting to 'make' your spouse modify their appearance for what you perceive to be monetary gain is -- well, if I have to draw a picture of how this would make a female feel uncomfortable, then there's not much I can possibly hope to get you to understand.
Now, in keeping with the assertations made by the oh so enlightened others in this thread, I will bow out of it, since I find the backlash from men disturbing in the extreme. And I will go get my boyfriend and smooch him lustily in thanks that he is not a reactionary pig.
posted by micawber at 2:05 PM on January 28, 2006
I think that you are being blatantly obtuse by saying that "the specific details of the situation are unimportant." I do agree that the OP is essentially well-intentioned and believes he is being kind and helpful to his wife. But the terms "make her" are disturbing to any woman, because there is still a power imbalance on this planet between men and women, and the term "exploit" is also very, very unfortunate.
Asking someone to modify their appearance for personal enjoyment is a matter for debate. Wanting to 'make' your spouse modify their appearance for what you perceive to be monetary gain is -- well, if I have to draw a picture of how this would make a female feel uncomfortable, then there's not much I can possibly hope to get you to understand.
Now, in keeping with the assertations made by the oh so enlightened others in this thread, I will bow out of it, since I find the backlash from men disturbing in the extreme. And I will go get my boyfriend and smooch him lustily in thanks that he is not a reactionary pig.
posted by micawber at 2:05 PM on January 28, 2006
micawber, look at the tone of the question. He's listening to her complaints, trying to solve her issue, respecting her intelligence and persistence, and believing in her honesty. Just the fact that he says she'll 'kill him' for asking this goes to show that he's hardly dominating her.
posted by Firas at 2:13 PM on January 28, 2006
posted by Firas at 2:13 PM on January 28, 2006
Could it be that she's aware of the problem, and was just venting to anon without wanting him to fix the situation? (Seriously, when I complain to a man, they're offering solutions to a problem I've already assessed and figured out for myself--I just want to bitch like I would to my female friends.)
Sexy professional is an oxymoron. You can't be professional in the workplace if you are presenting yourself in sexually alluring clothing. In can be the quite the opposite--one admin assistant in the low-cut (but dressy) blouse can be projecting her immaturity and flightiness while another in her tailored suit can be projecting competence and maturity. Most workplaces have really rigid sexual harrassment policies for a reason, even if your wife's workplace may still be run by a boy's club.
Well-fitting, quality clothing is what your wife needs to wear, which I hope is what you meant by sexy professional. If she is wearing dowdy clothing at work because she fears sexual attention, then she might also be unconsciously projecting an appearance that's meek, boring, and lackluster. If she walks in wearing a power suit or a nice shirt/shirt/sensible heels outfit, she'll feel more confident about her image (without resorting to unbuttoning that top button), which will carry over into her boss's opinion of her. Then I think she might be seen as someone worthy of promotion.
posted by lychee at 2:59 PM on January 28, 2006
Sexy professional is an oxymoron. You can't be professional in the workplace if you are presenting yourself in sexually alluring clothing. In can be the quite the opposite--one admin assistant in the low-cut (but dressy) blouse can be projecting her immaturity and flightiness while another in her tailored suit can be projecting competence and maturity. Most workplaces have really rigid sexual harrassment policies for a reason, even if your wife's workplace may still be run by a boy's club.
Well-fitting, quality clothing is what your wife needs to wear, which I hope is what you meant by sexy professional. If she is wearing dowdy clothing at work because she fears sexual attention, then she might also be unconsciously projecting an appearance that's meek, boring, and lackluster. If she walks in wearing a power suit or a nice shirt/shirt/sensible heels outfit, she'll feel more confident about her image (without resorting to unbuttoning that top button), which will carry over into her boss's opinion of her. Then I think she might be seen as someone worthy of promotion.
posted by lychee at 2:59 PM on January 28, 2006
Afroblanco, let me sum up the difference between the two threads.
Other thread: A girl wants her bf to more sexier/appealing to her.
This thread: A guy wants his wife to be sexier/more appealing to others.
You see the difference?
If anon asked how could he get his wife to dress sexier in the bedroom, I think the answers and the attitude here would be a lot different. His comment about how other men compliment him on his wife's appearance is very telling.
posted by iconomy at 3:01 PM on January 28, 2006
Other thread: A girl wants her bf to more sexier/appealing to her.
This thread: A guy wants his wife to be sexier/more appealing to others.
You see the difference?
If anon asked how could he get his wife to dress sexier in the bedroom, I think the answers and the attitude here would be a lot different. His comment about how other men compliment him on his wife's appearance is very telling.
posted by iconomy at 3:01 PM on January 28, 2006
Mod note: please take further discussion of the meta-topic to MetaTalk, thanks
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 4:15 PM on January 28, 2006
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 4:15 PM on January 28, 2006
Okay okay I'll be more helpful.
How about trying one of the following:
1. Help your wife find a job where she will be respected and rewarded for her skills, intelligence, and job contribution instead of her tits.
2. Don't reinforce the message she gets everyday from her workplace that her boobs are the most valuable thing on a woman, hence the promotion of women willing to accentuate their breasts over a woman who does not, by suggesting that she just show her boobs more if she wants to get ahead.
3. Educate yourself about sexual harassment in the workplace, and try to identify with the many reasons why your wife might not want to dress sexy at work.
4. Do everything you can to change a society in which hard working women are forced to exploit what "society believes is very attractive" in order to gain a measure of business success.
5. Love your wife for who she is, not how well she does at work or how stacked she is, and support her decisions to handle her career in whatever way she must to maintain her identity as a human and not just a pair of triple Ds.
it's possible that your wife's talent is being ignored for the simple reason that nobody notices her. Those that do notice her may mistake her conservative dress as that of a conservative, boring, person with little self-confidence. Convincing her to "show more skin"--which is, of course, not what you want her to do at all but whatever--may be just the thing for her to get the attention she needs to get ahead and for people to change their perceptions about her.
Dear Nixerman,
So when talented, hard working, and skilled women don't get ahead in business, the answer is to be remembered by showing tits? And not for her bosses to, perhaps, learn to view women as more than just bodies to be clothed in a way that is pleasurable to men?
The view that a woman's worth lies in her body and not in her mind, way more than the suggestion that dressing sexy at work is inappropriate, is the real example of a mid-century world view.
This isn't about SEX. This is about power and perception.
posted by jennyb at 4:28 PM on January 28, 2006
How about trying one of the following:
1. Help your wife find a job where she will be respected and rewarded for her skills, intelligence, and job contribution instead of her tits.
2. Don't reinforce the message she gets everyday from her workplace that her boobs are the most valuable thing on a woman, hence the promotion of women willing to accentuate their breasts over a woman who does not, by suggesting that she just show her boobs more if she wants to get ahead.
3. Educate yourself about sexual harassment in the workplace, and try to identify with the many reasons why your wife might not want to dress sexy at work.
4. Do everything you can to change a society in which hard working women are forced to exploit what "society believes is very attractive" in order to gain a measure of business success.
5. Love your wife for who she is, not how well she does at work or how stacked she is, and support her decisions to handle her career in whatever way she must to maintain her identity as a human and not just a pair of triple Ds.
it's possible that your wife's talent is being ignored for the simple reason that nobody notices her. Those that do notice her may mistake her conservative dress as that of a conservative, boring, person with little self-confidence. Convincing her to "show more skin"--which is, of course, not what you want her to do at all but whatever--may be just the thing for her to get the attention she needs to get ahead and for people to change their perceptions about her.
Dear Nixerman,
So when talented, hard working, and skilled women don't get ahead in business, the answer is to be remembered by showing tits? And not for her bosses to, perhaps, learn to view women as more than just bodies to be clothed in a way that is pleasurable to men?
The view that a woman's worth lies in her body and not in her mind, way more than the suggestion that dressing sexy at work is inappropriate, is the real example of a mid-century world view.
This isn't about SEX. This is about power and perception.
posted by jennyb at 4:28 PM on January 28, 2006
WHOOPS. Sorry. I crossed with Jessamyn's post. I'll copy and past in the metatalk thread - please delete the above post.
posted by jennyb at 4:28 PM on January 28, 2006
posted by jennyb at 4:28 PM on January 28, 2006
Wait, there's no metatalk thread. I'm not going to start one, but if someone does, I'll repost my comment above there.
posted by jennyb at 4:31 PM on January 28, 2006
posted by jennyb at 4:31 PM on January 28, 2006
from anonymous, in an email to me:
I botched the question - most people picked up the correct questions, which was along the lines of "How can I convince my wife to dress more professionally?"
Unfortunately I got all wrapped up in the question and said "make" rather than "encourage" and over emphasized the 'sexy' portion.
I'm no more of a cad than your average everyday Joe and I do appreciate everyone's answers.
I still stand by my assertion that a smart and beautiful woman will go further than simply a smart woman.
posted by jessamyn at 4:31 PM on January 28, 2006
I botched the question - most people picked up the correct questions, which was along the lines of "How can I convince my wife to dress more professionally?"
Unfortunately I got all wrapped up in the question and said "make" rather than "encourage" and over emphasized the 'sexy' portion.
I'm no more of a cad than your average everyday Joe and I do appreciate everyone's answers.
I still stand by my assertion that a smart and beautiful woman will go further than simply a smart woman.
posted by jessamyn at 4:31 PM on January 28, 2006
That's true, Jessamyn. It's also true that a smart and tall man will go further than simply a smart man.
We all have our crosses, unfortunately.
posted by Justinian at 5:28 PM on January 28, 2006
We all have our crosses, unfortunately.
posted by Justinian at 5:28 PM on January 28, 2006
"I still stand by my assertion that a smart and beautiful woman will go further than simply a smart woman."
See, this is the premise that undercuts any supposedly "good intentions". Positing that helping your wife appear more beautiful will help advance her career might be icily realistic, but it's kind of disgusting. Unless she's a model, I have no idea why you'd want to encourage any link between appearance and merit.
posted by Big Fat Tycoon at 5:30 PM on January 28, 2006
See, this is the premise that undercuts any supposedly "good intentions". Positing that helping your wife appear more beautiful will help advance her career might be icily realistic, but it's kind of disgusting. Unless she's a model, I have no idea why you'd want to encourage any link between appearance and merit.
posted by Big Fat Tycoon at 5:30 PM on January 28, 2006
Well, you can be idealistic and wallow in obscurity or recognize the rules and play the game. not making a MeTa thread because I don't think there's much left to discuss on the metaissue, sorry for the extra comment.
posted by Firas at 5:37 PM on January 28, 2006
posted by Firas at 5:37 PM on January 28, 2006
It is very, very hard to strike a balance dress-wise in the workplace when low heels put your [large] boobs on eye level with most every man in the place. I recommend flats, heavily lined bras, Kenneth Cole, a good tailor and not accusing other women of using their looks to get ahead even if it is in the privacy of your own home.
I think there is a law of diminishing returns on the whole attractiveness/ height= more successful thing for women. A lot of men don't find amazonian or amazingly good-looking women attractive in the workplace, they find them terrifying and resent them both for their looks and for the perceived special treatment that they probably aren't getting anyway.
posted by fshgrl at 8:09 PM on January 28, 2006
I think there is a law of diminishing returns on the whole attractiveness/ height= more successful thing for women. A lot of men don't find amazonian or amazingly good-looking women attractive in the workplace, they find them terrifying and resent them both for their looks and for the perceived special treatment that they probably aren't getting anyway.
posted by fshgrl at 8:09 PM on January 28, 2006
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This thread is closed to new comments.
Clothing-wise, I don't think you can go wrong with a smart, well-fitted suit or a fitted button-up shirt and nice slacks. Heeled shoes to match.
posted by Anonymous at 8:36 PM on January 27, 2006