I'm feeling jealous though I'm in a great relationship. What gives?

July 3, 2008 1:12 PM

Relationshipfilter: I think I've met The One. Or, I thought I had. At the three-month mark, insecurities are plaguing me. I'm a long-time commitmentphobe. Help?

Thanks to those of you who enjoy Relationshipfilter questions.

First off, I'm a mid-thirties female and am in therapy, mostly for issues related to growing up with two alcoholic parents and a dad who physically abused us. I'm making progress and growing and, though the process is hard, I'm reaping the benefits. I was engaged 10 years ago, but my fiance died. Since then, I've been a classic commitmentphobe, and my therapist told me that as I began working through my issues, I'd meet available men. Sure enough, three months ago, I was surrounded by relationshippy men on all sides. I chose the sweet, caring man who stayed on my mind when I wasn't around him, despite my initially pushing him away. He's ten years older, never married, but seemed enthralled with me, and that felt really good. He Googled me, he wooed me, he went to great lengths to prove his devotion and love. I've met his parents. He's met mine. We've traveled together. We see each other most every day. He's declared his love. He's told me I'm the person he's been waiting for his entire life. For the first three months, I was the Princess of the Universe. Yummy - I liked that! I was thoughtful and considerate myself, but took a while to commit and choose him, as I had other options and wasn't entirely sure I was ready.

Here we are, three+ months in. The attention is waning a bit. He doesn't touch me as often. He still tells me he loves me, but I *feel* like I am no longer Center of the Universe (ouch!). He looks at other women. I see this. I do not comment. He tells me other women are hot. I agree. I feel as though he must make these comments because he feels comfortable with me and thinks I'm cool. Awesome. I'd rather know what he is thinking than not. But I get irrationally jealous about this (on the inside) and it is so hard! I know men will always look at women; I'm no spring chicken. But it hurts me and makes me wonder if I'm not detecting a problem. The issue is that I can't trust my "intuitions" very well due to my upbringing and am trying to learn a whole new way of seeing life. I need to learn that the next shoe doesn't have to drop...something I learned always happened in an alcoholic home.

Am I catastrophizing here, or is this normal? If I have a "feeling" that he's a straying type, is that normal or not? Please understand he behaves as the most whipped dude you can imagine and will do anything for me...we were so happy and in love but after a weekend trip I felt like we kinda ran out of things to talk about. Is this normal? We rode home comfortably listening to music instead of passionately talking/groping one another as we've done in the past. I ask because in addition to therapy, I'd like to get the mefi opinion on these issues. I have high anxiety about opening up to guys (not females - I've got tons of female friends, and guy friends, for that matter). We've both agreed we've never been this far in a relationship. He knows about my childhood and admires me for being so together (his words) in the face of it. I have a great job, tons of friends, and a great life that is very interesting...I'm just so much more secure when I am single. Being in a relationship is bringing out insecurities...like jealousy...I had no idea I had the capacity for. Also, if it matters, he seems very appearance-focused and has commented on my appearance, and his pride in it, many times, which gives me pause. I don't load on that variable (for the geeks among us) and I won't be that attractive in a few years, if you know what I mean. I'll try to delineate specific questions:

How do I separate out normal anxiety from pathological anxiety vis-a-vis a relationship?

Is this feeling at 3+ months normal, or am I overreacting?

Do guys always look at other women, and comment on them, or am I being a princess here?

If, for the first three months, I felt that he was The One, am I being commitmentphobic to alter that opinion by looking for things that are wrong?

My best friend says that right = easy. It was incredibly easy up until now. Does this mean it isn't right? Am I looking for reasons to sideline him?

BTW, I've told him about therapy and my childhood and we've discussed the things I've done to derail the relationship which didn't work due to his patience and love for me. He's been awesome, and I find no fault with him other than staring at other women. He's a good, traditional guy who wants nothing other than to meet the right person and have a Backyo with her. He seems to generally think I've hung the moon. He has insecurities, too.

I don't even know where I'm going with this, for which I apologize. I'm just feeling so anxious and unhappy and want to be single again, though I'm cognizant of losing a great guy if I broke up (my natural inclination). Any anon info, please mefimail me or use [e-mail] Thanks.

posted by anonymous to human relations (40 comments total)

breathe!

all men look at other women. not all men comment. those who do are either a) oblivious, or b) cruel. it doesn't sound like he's cruel, unless he has a mean streak you haven't mentioned. i'm guessing that he's been single for a very long time and has just been poorly socialized as a boyfriend.

next time he does it, just say with a big smile, "baby, i adore you, so i'm telling you for your own good: you can think it, but i don't wanna hear it. got it? good." followed by a very big sloppy kiss or other sexy gesture to reinforce.

if he does it again, ignore it. if he does it again after that, say, "i wasn't kidding." if he continues to do it, then, well, maybe he is cruel and needs some therapy of his own. but i bet he'll stop.
posted by thinkingwoman at 1:24 PM on July 3, 2008 [3 favorites]

(My background: male, 33, married 7 years to a woman I've been with for 9 so you know where this is coming from).

From reading this post I can tell you are insecure and a bit frazzled by this, but you have questions and that's normal.

3 months in seems a bit early for the relationship to lose its 'heat' to be honest. I'd say my wife's and mine started to cool off after a year...it was about the 3 month mark we started doing less conventional things in the bedroom and really opening up to each other about wants, desires, needs to keep things hot since we'd done the casual stuff.

The silence after a long drive? Not unusual in the least.

The commenting about other women? Men will find women hot, women will find men hot. It doesn't mean he's going to cheat. And if he doesn't tell you who's hot it doesn't mean he won't cheat. He IS telling you because he thinks you're "cool with it" and if you ask him not to then you'll remove the symptom as he'll surely shut up about it, but the cause is still there and he may feel resentful for having to censor himself.

I'd say go apples for apples; start telling him what men you find hot (even if you don't, just pick out hot guys to mention) and see how he takes it, or what he brings up. It may spur a bit of competitive jealousy he needs to raise his A game and make you the center of his universe again (but understand that kind of thing CANNOT last...it will lessen, but 3 months just seems a bit soon for it to lessen)

Other than that, I'd think continuing your relationship is a good healthy thing for you to do. Just because you've been together 3 months doesn't mean you've got to get married and be together forever, but let this one ride out and see how things go...

The one thing that worries me is you say you were engaged once, and you also say

We've both agreed we've never been this far in a relationship.

for a 3 month relationship...so how long did you know your fiance before you got engaged? That seems REAL quick...
posted by arniec at 1:26 PM on July 3, 2008

(addendum: since I'm a guy, perhaps thinkingwoman's advice on how to handle the "hot chick" comments is better than my own)
posted by arniec at 1:27 PM on July 3, 2008

Lots of guys look at other women. Fewer comment on it. And any guy worth your time will stop commenting on it if you let him know it bothers you. Let him know in a way that does not make him feel bad for doing it up till now.
posted by grouse at 1:30 PM on July 3, 2008 [1 favorite]

I don't have enough information about his behaviour to make a sound judgement, but there are a few warning signs there. So, there are some questions I think need to be asked.

He comments on other women's appearance. Definitely a red flag, but like you said, it's possible that he's just being casual. Have you told him that it makes you uncomfortable? Are you afraid to tell him? If so, are you afraid to tell him because you are generally insecure about standing up for yourself, because you suspect from his history that he will put you on the defensive, or because a combination of the two?

Even if you don't verbally tell him you're uncomfortable, do you tell him in other ways? Do you give him a hurt look, shift uncomfortably, ask desperate questions about your own appearance? If so, does he ignore it and continue to do it even though he really should see you don't like it?

Do you tell him when you find men attractive? Does he take on a double standard and react negatively when you do?

By "looking at other women," what exactly do you mean? Most people will notice a sexy person even when they are in a very satisfying relationship. I'm sure you do the same. But is he really ogling them, flirting, checking them out, making objectifying comments?

You are very, very, very quick to blame yourself for these problems and call yourself a "princess" or "uptight." Do you always do this or are you taking cues from him? Or both? If he's a fraction of a decent guy, he will care that you feel this way and he will not turn it around on you and make you defensive.

You say you want to be single again. Do you feel that way because you feel that you should be staying with him since he has the shopping list of positive traits, but you aren't actually into him? Or because your insecurities are whispering in your ear and telling you to sabotage anything good in your life?

Do you feel indebted to him because he has been good to you in many ways, and are therefore letting him trample on you in other ways? For some manipulative (even abusive) people, this is a deliberate trick. Or it could just be an unfortunate side-effect of a nice person paired with an insecure person who is afraid to communicate.

You and I seem alike in many ways. Please feel free to message me if you would like to talk. I wish you luck and happiness.
posted by giggleknickers at 1:39 PM on July 3, 2008 [4 favorites]

I can tell you that I've been with a man for 10+ years who has never remarked to me about the hotness of another woman. If I say that I think so-and-so is pretty or cute or looks all wrong in that color, he will tell me if he agrees, disagrees, or hadn't considered it, but neither one of us talks much about other people's sexual desirability at all. Further, I've never noticed him checking someone else out in a sexual way. But he's a big commenter on the cuteness or fat-legged-ness of babies, so I guess that's what amuses him visually. My father is exactly the same: I have no idea if he prefers brunettes or blondes, butts or breasts, or anything else. He seems to only have eyes for my mom. Also, growing up he never criticized my looks or clothing choices.

That's just to say that there exist men who don't happen to exhibit this behavior, so if you prefer that option, keep looking! It's no different than trying to find a boyfriend who writes songs or enjoys cooking or gets up early or wants dogs or will make confrontational phone calls on your behalf. Or you can ask this guy to try to stop this behavior for your sake. But just as if he had a swearing habit or a tendency to stumble on stairs, he might not be able to stop easily.
posted by xo at 1:41 PM on July 3, 2008 [1 favorite]

I was you at the beginning of my current relationship. We've been together 3.5 years and we're getting married in the fall.

Basically, I was completely honest with him about my insecurities and he was completely patient with me. Some guys can't handle this; they think they'll be constantly be walking on eggshells around you, afraid you'll crumble. I found that it made us stronger because it forced me to confront my irrational insecurity head-on, and it made my behavior make sense to him.

The first three months were very difficult, though. This has been a long process of getting to know myself and being able to trust him. At the three month mark I was still a basket case when he didn't call when he said he would. A year later, I didn't give a shit if he thought my friends were hot or went to dinner with his ex. I knew he loved me and only me.

Don't compound the problem by worrying about your worrying. This is what's normal for you. However, it's costing you a lot - your peace of mind and probably your health. Medication might be in order if your anxiety won't abate. It has helped me tremendously. Talk therapy has been somewhat useful, but most useful has been doing things that make me proud of myself, and teach me that I am a whole and complete person with or without a man in my life. For example, grad school, or learning a skill.

No amount of reading books or websites will quiet the irrational voice in your head. In fact, don't resist it. Acknowledge "Oh, there's that irrational fear again," and let it go. Fake it til you make it. How would you act if you weren't jealous? Don't wait until you're not anxious to act this way, because you'll be waiting forever. Act as if you trust him completely, and your anxiety will abate on its own. This is a good guy - you know that deep in your heart. Whatever happens, happens, but continuing the way you are will continue to make you miserable.
posted by desjardins at 1:42 PM on July 3, 2008 [1 favorite]

I think you are experiencing boredom. The chase and euphoria is waning; familiarities and insecurities are rearing their head. However, return to normalcy is not bad. In fact, you will have to do it eventually, and trying to extend it is understandable, but it can't be maintained forever. Certain understandings and impressions may need to be explore and deepen; and aspects of the relationship may need readjustment and renegotiation. But, approach this normalcy with calm and commitment. Try your best to communicate and fight the insecurities that emerge,. Have faith in the relationship.
posted by curiousZ at 2:16 PM on July 3, 2008 [1 favorite]

Hey, I dunno, but I think this is entirely normal.

You guys are probably just exiting the limerance phase of your relationship. This is an actual biological phase where the brain chemistry of the couple is going all haywire over their partner. This is the point of every relationship where you are flying high on the world, the person is the best thing that ever happened to you, and you want to do it until you never stop all the time. This phase can last from weeks to God-knows-how-long, but it eventually ends, no matter how great the relationship.

Now things are calming down, you guys are going to start noticing each others' flaws (like him commenting on women), and this is where the real work comes in to make the switch from limerance to true, romantic, long-lasting love. Your friend who says "right is easy" is full of bullshit. All relationships take work, communication, and compromise. The more both partners are willing to do of these things, the more likely the relationship will work out. You gotta let him know about your insecurities, for one thing. It is absolutely normal for dudes and women to check other people out despite their own relationship status. The commenting thing is pretty rude though, and most guys know this--it is possible he thinks you're OK with it or he's just really oblivious. Give him the benefit of the doubt and let him know it bothers you.

Of course, if, as giggleknickers said, if by "checking out" you mean "flirting mercilessly and trying to get some poontang on the side," then that is an entirely different story.
posted by schroedinger at 2:19 PM on July 3, 2008 [3 favorites]

Most men look at other women...scratch that...all men probably do. Hell, I look at other men on the street and sometimes I think they are hot. I might even chatter and giggle with my female friends about it. But telling my boyfriend about that hot guy walking down the street would be

1. Unnecessary, since he probably already knows that I, as a human being, find many people attractive. He's not dumb.
2. Rude
3. Vaguely shallow and frivolous. AKA something a frat boy would say.

We both might remark about Angelina Jolie or other celebrities being gorgeous, but from an abstract standpoint.

My first boyfriend would say that other women, including my friends, were hot. He would do it under the pretext of being "open" and "honest," but really, even in and open and honest relationship there is plenty that's just unnecessary to say.
posted by melissam at 2:21 PM on July 3, 2008

Also, if it matters, he seems very appearance-focused and has commented on my appearance, and his pride in it, many times, which gives me pause.

You know, I've complimented people on their appearance in the past not because I was obsessed with appearance, but because I wanted to compliment them and appearance seemed a conventional, non-weird path to go down.

I don't know about other things in your relationship, but too many complements wouldn't be on my list of things to complain about in a relationship.
posted by Mike1024 at 2:27 PM on July 3, 2008

Men comment on other women. We're human.

My girlfriend comments on other men (and women- she's bi). It's fun and it's liberating.

When you are secure, those "insecurities" never materialize.

You have to be more independent. No one is anyone's center of the universe.
posted by Zambrano at 2:28 PM on July 3, 2008 [2 favorites]

At 3+ months I think you should relax, enjoy this for what it is now, and continue to work on what you've working on with yourself.

Try getting over needing to feel like you are the Center of the Universe (ouch!). Friend is right - easy is good. Easy makes it easy to have special times when you do, in fact, feel like the Center of the Universe.

Exactly how and why does he tells you other women are hot? If you are in fact commenting, and saying "do you think she is hot?" Stop. No good will come of that. Men have days when they think the bat wing upper arms of elderly woman who just lost 86 pounds are hot. Let it go.

If he is volunteering the information that other women are hot, well, then relax, enjoy this for what it is now, and don't forget to notice other men in case you need a new boyfriend in a month or two...
posted by Lesser Shrew at 2:32 PM on July 3, 2008

I am truly sorry if I sound like I'm getting on a high horse, but I would just like to remind other commenters that the OP stated that she grew up with abuse, which even sounded pretty severe. If she is anything like the majority of those who grew up in abusive households, then that means she will:

1) Have a hard time noticing when she is being mistreated, because to her it is normal.
2) Have an angel and a devil on her shoulder when she does get mistreated. The angel saying "Um, hi, you don't deserve to be treated like that, it's out of line," and the devil saying "Shut up and stop being a princess. You're either imagining it or it's all your fault."
3) Seek reassurance from others that the angel is the one she should listen to.
4) Respond to comments telling her that it's nothing by deciding it's the devil on her shoulder who is correct.

Also, those who have been abused have extremely high rates of pairing up with partners who mistreat them. So telling her not to worry without really having all the information seems risky to me. She feels squicky about the relationship and has a hard time identifying what exactly the problem is, and I think it's important not to blow that off unless we get more information.
posted by giggleknickers at 2:39 PM on July 3, 2008 [9 favorites]

You're going to have to tell your boyfriend that it bugs you when he checks out other women and comments on their attractiveness. Definitely do not turn the tables and start commenting on every hot guy you see...playing games like that will not help your relationship.

If you want more affection, you need to communicate and also to initiate affection yourself. If it bothers you that your boyfriend seems fixated on your appearance, just tell him so. He probably thinks he's making you feel good about yourself.

If, after the communicating and talking things out, he's still doing the same things, it is probably time to re-evaluate the relationship.
posted by pluckysparrow at 2:42 PM on July 3, 2008

I could flip thinkingwoman's point and say that all men look at other women and those that do not comment on it are either a) ashamed or b) worried about their girlfriend's jealous reaction.

My girlfriend usually comments on hot girls long before I notice, though (she's secure and not jealous herself, plus she thinks girls are pretty) so maybe I'm a bad example. Come to think of it, that's on my business card. "Bad Example."

Original-anonymous-poster: You definitely sound like you're overthinking this, but one thing you say made me rankle.

I was thoughtful and considerate myself, but took a while to commit and choose him, as I had other options and wasn't entirely sure I was ready.

Maybe I'm too romantic for my own good, but if you really mean that, I'm also pretty concerned that this is not the right person for you. When you have the right person, you KNOW. You don't "think" or "consider" or "compare" or make a "choice."

When you really have no choice, when it's so bleeding obvious that you can't even explain it... that's the right person.

I'll now get beaten down by all the rational heartless logic-types. I'm ready.
posted by rokusan at 2:50 PM on July 3, 2008

Also seconding pluckysparrow (great nickname) in reinforcing that this is not necessarily a cosmic choice between The One and Nothing. Enjoy, learn, grow, and have fun.

Every vacation can't be Disneyland.
posted by rokusan at 2:52 PM on July 3, 2008 [1 favorite]

the "honeymoon" phase of every relationship (when the two of you are all lovey-dovey and super-affectionate and can't get enough of each other, etc) lasts from a few weeks to several months so it just might be that the two of you are moving out of that—particularly as it seems that you've spent more than the average amount of time together that most couples do at 3+ months. it's also pretty normal considering your ages that your relationship has been on a faster trajectory.

when you are moving out of the honeymoon period is when people begin to evaluate whether they want to stick with the relationship and it seems like he does want to stick around so—and i know this is easier said than done—don't sweat it. it's also when the relationship starts to fall into a routine of sorts—and hopefully when silences when you're together are comfortable ones.

as for your fella looking at other women: all men check out other women. if they say they don't, they're either lying or secretly gay. women do it too. it's only human nature to look at things we find attractive. some people don't have a problem about their partners making comments, but more often than not, people do. the fact that you have been agreeing with his comments thus far has been a signal to him that you are fine with his making comments. but you are perfectly within your rights to ask that he not make comments. if he really cared about you, he'd keep his thoughts about this to himself. if he continues to do so, i'd reconsider whether this guy really is the one for you because to continue to do something that makes you uncomfortable demonstrates a lack of respect for you and your feelings.

i come from an abusive family background as well so i can understand your insecurities. and giggleknickers is absolutely correct in saying that ppl who have been abused have a hard time noticing mistreatment because they grew up having to tolerate it. the best thing you can do for yourself and this relationship when you are feeling these insecurities is to communicate them to your boyfriend. just a simple statement about what is making you feel insecure, why (if you know why and want to share the reason) and what you need from him to feel less secure about that. doesn't have to be a big deal talk every time. i have been doing this for the first time in my current relationship and, because he really listens and tries to address (or tells me he will be better about something i'm concerned about when it comes up again), is a huge relief because it makes me feel that i am being listened to and that my concerns are important to him. that feeling of being listened to and valued not only assuages my insecurities at that time but it also helps prevent similar ones in the future
posted by violetk at 3:06 PM on July 3, 2008 [1 favorite]

Assuming that you're looking for a frame of reference for "normal" or "usual," here's an opinion:

He looks at other women.

This is perfectly normal. Many people do this, and the mere fact that he looks at other women doesn't bode ill for the future of your relationship.

I see this. I do not comment.

This is also more or less normal. Some men (and women, but we're talking about a man) who look will be discreet enough so that you'd never notice, and some partners of less discreet people will maintain a cheerful vagueness about what exactly their partner is looking at, but it's not unusual to notice one's partner noticing someone attractive.

If he's going out of his way to be noticed looking --- routinely swivelling his head to follow someone walking by, whistling or muttering under his breath, etc. --- that's a different matter, and it suggests that he wants you (and the women he's ogling) to notice him doing it, or that he's oblivious to the point of impoliteness. If that's happening, you are not unusual in being unhappy and jealous. Not all women would feel that way, but it's (again) not unusual.

He tells me other women are hot. I agree.

This is less typical. If it didn't bother you, it would be harmless. Since it does bother you, it's worth telling him in a way that casts no blame on anyone, as suggested above.

If he continues to make the remarks after you've clearly told him they upset you, he's being inconsiderate, and either cruel or thoughtless. Some of my guy friends insist (and I'm willing to entertain the notion, since I myself find it hard to avoid looking at, for example, prominent cleavage) that looking is often involuntary, but talking about it is not involuntary.

The larger question: If, for the first three months, I felt that he was The One, am I being commitmentphobic to alter that opinion by looking for things that are wrong?

In my world, three months isn't long enough to know the answer. Three months in, the dreamy, blissed-out neurochemical buzz of new romance is probably wearing off, and you get to start seeing who he is with you, and who you are with him, and how those worlds intersect.

The intense feelings of the first three months make it seem like a long time, but it isn't that long by the calendar. It's not uncommon to feel this "make or break" anxiety two or three months into a relationship. Give it some time.

You mention having plenty of close friends. Since we can't get a sense of the relationship dynamic, sound out your friends. A grounded, emotionally intelligent friend can give you much better feedback than we can.
p.s. - Consider: do you like him? You mostly discuss here how much he adores you, not whether you adore him.
posted by Elsa at 3:29 PM on July 3, 2008 [2 favorites]

If nobody has mentioned this yet, please give yourself a reality check kick up the arse by googling New Relationship Energy. It's euphoric, intense, normal, and completely unsustainable.

Your relationship is normal. Very few couples maintain that constant touching, groping feely "I love you, I love you, I love you" fest after oh, the first three months. Those that do are annoying as all get out.

Looking at other humans is normal. Noticing that attractive people are, hey!, attractive is normal. The man doesn't live in a box with blinders on. He will be surrounded by other, attractive people his entire life, so you better come to terms with this.

What you're experiencing is jealousy, otherwise know as fear of loss. Walking away from a relationship because you're afraid of losing the relationship is just an aspect of commitmentphobia. People who are solidly situated in a relationship with good communication don't play that way. They put on their big girl pants and learn to ask for reassurance when they need it.

Which, by the way, is communicated with "I feel insecure about X, can you reassure me?" and not with "do you love me? Really? Are you sure?" Which is also know as annoying.
posted by DarlingBri at 4:21 PM on July 3, 2008 [2 favorites]

> Do guys always look at other women, and comment on them

As xo said, sometimes a guy only has eyes for his love. Mine is like that, four years in. Sounds like you would like that, too. Sure, people say you "shouldn't be needy" or whatever but I think you sound like me -- due to neglect or abuse, you do want and need that attention. It's done me a world of good and I enjoy it continuing. Your situation is turning into what you don't want. Let it go. You have to pay attention and trust your genuine feeling of what you do want. I made the mistake once of trusting the chorus (the reasonable voice of advice from the community) and it has caused me terrible and protracted grief because even though it was reasonable it was not right for me. And even though it's reasonable that guys look at women, maybe that's not even the kind of guy for you at all.
posted by Listener at 4:29 PM on July 3, 2008 [3 favorites]

As xo said, sometimes a guy only has eyes for his love. Mine is like that, four years in.

just want to point out that just because a man isn't making a comment about the hotness of a woman doesn't mean he doesn't notice or isn't looking at said hotness. i think for the most part, when a guy is in a relationship, he's pretty discreet about looking at attractive women. but obviously there are guys out there who are either clueless, cruel, or insecure and will make a comment.

therefore:
And even though it's reasonable that guys look at women, maybe that's not even the kind of guy for you at all.

guys looking at women has nothing to do with whether it's reasonable or not, it just is. everyone likes to look at pretty things. period. so the kind of guy for you won't be predicated on whether he notices other attractive women, it will be about what he does when you ask him not to because it makes you uncomfortable.
posted by violetk at 4:43 PM on July 3, 2008 [1 favorite]

what he does when you ask him not to

not to comment that is.
posted by violetk at 4:45 PM on July 3, 2008

Normal stuff from both of you.

When my wife and I started dating, we started having issues as we got closer. She grew up in the dysfunctional family of divorce & drama. I grew up in the family with over the top family dialogue to resolve every issue.

We went to couples counseling and it helped us immensely. We were able to understand our behavior, based on our upbringing, and recognize when we were acting based on previous patterns and given methods to avoid following old patterns of behavior.

My recommendation is going to couples counseling together. A good counselor can offer concrete ideas on how to address issues like you describe.

And yes, men always look at women. Not to start a boyzone fest, but IMHO, it's hardwired in most men. I'm happily married for 14 years and I still glance at attractive women walking by. Some men will say it's not true, but in my experience, most straight men look at attractive women regularly. My guess is that your boyfriend is mentioning it to you as a sign that he trusts you with his real feelings.

Good luck!
posted by Argyle at 6:31 PM on July 3, 2008

People like to look at pretty things, but there is a difference between admiring pretty things and attractive people objectively and actively lusting after every attractive woman that one sees. If the OP's partner usually points out other things he finds attractive, a comment here or there on the occasional beautiful woman seems warranted and innocuous. If he doesn't typically do this, but instead points out, with great inflection, "zomg HOTNESS," I can see why the OP might wonder if she should be concerned. It could definitely raise questions in her mind about how much and how often her SO wants to jump other women, which could make her question the stability of the relationship.

I think it's normal to notice and be attracted to other people, but I do not think it's normal to fixate on the attractive people and desire to jump them all. We can't tell what his intentions are with these comments, so I think it's worth asking him about in a non-confrontational way. I was in a relationship before where I was terrified to question my SO about this sort of thing because of how he reacted whenever I did; I would be accused of being a crazy, jealous bitch and other unpleasantness would ensue. If that is the case with your bf, the relationship is not worth it. Sometimes I was insecure like you might be feeling right now, but I wasn't being a crazy, jealous bitch and I didn't realize that until I got out of the relationship.
posted by Polychrome at 6:33 PM on July 3, 2008

I think Listener's experience is atypical. It's important to distinguish between what's biological (looking at attractive people) and manner (not drawing attention to yourself looking, or not commenting). While manner can be acquired and adjusted (to a certain degree), biology is hardwired. Don't predicate your happiness on changing something hardwired, because all you will do is setting yourself up for a life of misery.

Manners can be changed with patience and vigilant. So far, the OP has encouraged the opposite reaction she was looking for, so she will first have to change her action and communicate that clearly. Don't expect something you encouraged for 3 months to go away in a week; it's probably take twice as long to effect an opposite behavior. That is why it's important to be yourself and give honest feedback right at the beginning; anything you allowed before will take more time to re-negotiate and re-adjust later. This is tough to do, because most people are overly optimistic about what they can tolerate during the chemically-fueled lovey-dovey stage, only to find out that the incompatibilities are really annoying afterward. However, in a relationship, you take the good with the bad. Build up high tolerance, patience and faith; and you can work together through this phase.

Finally, part of the problem described above is the OP's changing interpretation of the same action. Before, his commenting a stranger was interpreted as honesty, intimacy and trust. Now, the same action is interpreted as tactless, inconsiderate and shifty. Both interpretations are wrong, because interpretations are guesses: ascribing motives to observations. It's much better if you are worry about motive to ask/share/communicate about motive with your loved one. Don't guess, because you can't always trust your own objectivity (as you stated). Accept the fact that your mood and your past will alter your perceptions, so the best way to cut through that is sharing at the deepest level. Once you have explored and trusted the other's inner self, the rest can be overcome.
posted by curiousZ at 7:08 PM on July 3, 2008

Is this feeling at 3+ months normal, or am I overreacting?

It's normal. What seems not totally normal to me is how quickly you got into it in the first place. Thinking he's "The One" before three months?! Whoa, slow down, hon! That's one-year talk!

And yeah, that first-stage euphoria isn't going to last forever - can you imagine how little work would get done if we were all blissed-out all the time? -laugh- Relax and take your time to learn how he is as a whole person.

Do guys always look at other women, and comment on them, or am I being a princess here?

Lotta comments on this one already, so I'll be short; it would irritate me if my boy commented, even though I know we're BOTH looking. I can totally see how someone would be clueless about commenting, though - just tell him! You gotta open up the communication right now, at this early stage.

If, for the first three months, I felt that he was The One, am I being commitmentphobic to alter that opinion by looking for things that are wrong?

Again, no. That crazy infatuation stage is, literally, your body literally ramped up on hormones and drugs. You're bound to feel a little crazy. Around now it wears off and you learn to see past your idealization of your partner, to who they really are. And hey, we all have flaws. Accept them (or not), work with them (or not), but realize that this stage comes with every relationship.

My best friend says that right = easy. It was incredibly easy up until now. Does this mean it isn't right? Am I looking for reasons to sideline him?

Your best friend is... ahem... wrong. (To a point - obviously if you're two weeks into it and having to go to couple's therapy, it's not right). Every relationship has rough spots, and issues, and things that can really piss you off about the other person. It comes from two humans being intimate - we are all inherently flawed, and so that's just how our relationships are going to be. The difference between a "right" relationship and "wrong" relationship is how the couple works around these inevitable glitches.

So my advice to you would be to relax and stop overanalyzing, stop trying to figure out how everything fits into the future, and just be in the moment with this guy. If he keeps making you happy, great! You can rethink all this stuff if a year goes by and you're still happy together.
posted by GardenGal at 7:56 PM on July 3, 2008 [1 favorite]

I'm just feeling so anxious and unhappy and want to be single again.

I know earlier you say that you're not sure about trusting your intuition, but I think that having written the above you have your answer right there.
posted by Sitegeist at 9:20 PM on July 3, 2008

Either it's totally normal that he's looking at other women and he just doesn't realize you don't want to hear the comments, OR (I'm sorry to suggest this) he's subtly warning you not to get too attached. Which one this is will become clear if you ask him to stop and watch whether or not he does so. If he's in his mid-forties and never married then I for one would want to know why not. Perhaps he focused too much on his work, perhaps he's just unlucky, perhaps he had his own issues to work through and has now done so, or perhaps he's a commitment-phobe himself. Maybe he has a pattern of starting intense relationships and then running off after the NRE goes away. This is not uncommon in men his age who have never married, I think.

Don't just run away but do trust your instincts and don't let yourself be driven crazy by wondering what's going on with him and whether he's the one. Each time you start thinking like that try to also keep in mind that just a few months ago you were surrounded by men and got to take your pick, so surely you would meet someone else awesome if it doesn't work out with him. Make an agreement with yourself not to try to answer the "is he the one?" question until the 1-year mark. Trying to figure it out right now it's like you're trying to solve a complex formula when you haven't even gathed a set of values for most of the variables.

People who comment that their boyfriends or husbands never look at other women - I'm happy for you but since you're not in the majority here your comment (and I'm sure you don't mean them this way) could come across as bragging to those of us whose partners do subtly look at other women. Hearing about the men who don't do this could potentially encourage us to feel insecure - women receive plenty of messages telling us we're not good enough already and don't need any more of them. Also, I doubt looking or not looking correlates to cheating or not cheating. If anything, the ability to hide your attraction to other women so thoroughly that you don't even glance at them in the street might make me think you could hide other things equally well.
posted by hazyjane at 12:22 AM on July 4, 2008 [1 favorite]

I think the problem here is that everything is really very good. It sounds like he really likes you, and like things are starting to actually get a little serious. And you (really, really) want to be the Center of his Universe, so ... it sounds like you really like him, too. Cool! And it sounds like that is totally freaking you out. :)

All your bad feelings, to me, sound like:
a) a fear that he's bad in some way you haven't detected yet,
b) a fear that he'll leave or stop liking you, or
c) discomfort at him doing something that triggers more (b)

Fears (a) and (b) are fears stemming from how great things are, aren't they? I'll assume he quits (c) when asked. In my experience, (a) and (b) are normal anxiety in an intense relationship: "is this real? is this going to be real for real?" And actually, that phase, for me, happens when you're still in the early head over heels phase. (You can think of it as withdrawal from the endorphins.)

So, if you're still in the early phase, it might be too early to really know how the relationsip is going to go (eg, can you solve problems well together? will red flags arise?). But from everything you've said and the extreme awesomeness of certain things you said ("we've discussed the things I've done to derail the relationship which didn't work due to his patience and love"), it sounds great!

Part of me wants to caution you: the intensity of feelings, itself, concerns me. I have this idea I picked up from somewhere that people with abuse are more likely to get that super-intense head-over-heels attraction happens towards people who have tendencies in certain (bad) directions. So, I would keep your radar turned on. But he sounds so good that maybe all your hard work has really, really paid off.

desjardins is, as usual, spot on, this time about the need to stay open with him about the insecurities.
posted by salvia at 12:45 AM on July 4, 2008 [1 favorite]

God, I don't want to start a flame war, but this thread is scaring me. Why is poster after poster minimizing the feelings of somebody who is working through abuse issues having concerns about being mistreated? Does nobody see the danger in that?

The message I continuously see is "Something that is possibly, maybe vaguely similar to this happens in my relationship with two healthy people who aren't working through abuse issues. Therefore, somebody who is working through abuse issues, who is at an extremely high risk of repeated abuse, who is already constantly blaming herself for having concerns - that person needs to be told not to worry and sent on her way if she expresses concerns about her relationship." We're even getting to the point where those who err on the side of caution are accused of bragging.

I am so sorry for antagonizing. I really am. But please, people, quit doing this.
posted by giggleknickers at 5:42 AM on July 4, 2008

But please, people, quit doing this.

No. One of the questions Anonymous asked is whether she is overreacting. People are giving an honest response. I'm sorry that you feel only one answer is appropriate.

For what it's worth, I think that it's not at all unreasonable to be annoyed by a significant other's comments about members of the appropriate sex, that the SO should stop this when asked, and that Anonymous should ask her boyfriend to do so. I think his reaction to that would be the true test of whether she is being mistreated.
posted by grouse at 6:23 AM on July 4, 2008

I completely disagree with the idea that men who comment on this sort of thing are somehow assholes. If their tone and expression seems to match their being "oblivious" or "asshole," then sure. But if a guy is completely happy with you and has no intention of straying, he can feel comfortable making comments like that. My fiance and I both comment on the attractiveness of other people, and we're fiercely monogamous. It's not a crime to appreciate aesthetic beauty, and I think it can be rather ridiculous to pretend you don't notice how attractive someone is when everyone in the room is looking at them.

Personally, I would be more worried if my fiance didn't comment on attractive people; it would mean he felt he needed to hide it from me because his feelings actually are a threat to our relationship. That's the kind of person he is, though: very honest and open. The guy I dated before him would steadfastly deny looking at any women ever. I was right to be jealous and paranoid then; he was lying to me -- and later admitted it when we broke up -- because he was seriously attracted to them in a way that was threatening to the relationship. I would never want to be with someone like that again. It's not worth the mental anguish trying to detangle when someone is lying to you, or purposely omitting the truth, or whatnot. You can't trust them.

I am, however, glad that I dated that guy before my fiance. If I hadn't, I wouldn't have been appreciative of my fiance's honesty. I would have gotten jealous and read way too much into it, instead of being thankful, and I never would have matured past being an irrational basketcase. I never have to try and figure out what my fiance is thinking, and I have never felt safer or more secure in a relationship. The guy I was with before, who never commented on attractive people? I really do think he would have eventually cheated on me. My fiance? I have no worries.

That's not to say if a guy doesn't comment, it means anything bad. Some guys are overly cautious, or polite, or are simply responding to the (usually correct) assumption that their girlfriends would not be able to handle such a thing maturely.

Now, from your post I can't be sure that this guy isn't purposely being cruel, or oblivious, or trying to make you jealous. Your description of him before that point certainly didn't make him sound that way. If it doesn't seem that he's doing any of those things, I think it's a good sign. People who are that honest are rare, and it's a relief -- at least for me -- to not have to be paranoid about anything.
posted by Nattie at 7:39 AM on July 4, 2008

giggleknickers, I totally agree with you, but given what the poster said, I truly can't tell from the outside whether or not this guy is abusive or not from his behavior. No major red flags have come up that guarantee it. He may very well be so, or not. She can't tell from her perspective, but neither can I when this is all I know. And I doubt anyone else can really tell either at this point.

I would recommend that the poster ask her therapist this question.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:16 AM on July 4, 2008

In a good relationship, your boyfriend may or may not look at other women, but he will *never* make you feel insecure about your appearance or his fidelity (at least not in the long run). The insecurity may be your fault, or it may be his, but if it's there and not going away, then that's a big problem.
posted by footnote at 10:50 AM on July 4, 2008 [1 favorite]

giggleknickers, she hasn't asked him to stop talking about people, and they have successfully addressed other other concerns of hers in the past. That is why I'm willing to assume he's doing it with innocent intentions and that when she brings it up, he'll be concerned it bothers her and stop. If not, yes, it's very wrong (what footnote said) and I trust she'll end things.

Is it possible that what's putting her most on edge is the opportunity for real intimacy, when intimacy has always led to betrayal or hurt in the past? Some people with abusive pasts may downplay or deny problems and really do need encouragement to take their instincts seriously, but it sounds like anon has her eyes open to look for that, rightly so. She's found a potential problem, and should see if it's a big problem (he won't quit) or a source of more strength for them (he quits). My impression was that what anon needs more than people worrying over her is encouragement to keep walking forward through the anxiety into a healthy, solid relationship (though whether or not this relationship turns out to be that does still remain to be seen). And what she asked for was comparison to other relationships, so you can't fault people for giving her that.
posted by salvia at 11:15 AM on July 4, 2008

Oh, I so feel for you. I too have a tendency to sabotage things, in the classically commitment phobic manner. And when you're not clearly the Center of His Universe, things can get all too ambivalent and tense. I think you're doing the right thing, trying to rationally analyze and get feedback on the information that you've been given thus far, based on his behavior.

Regarding his commentary on other women, it could be a socialization thing, in which case I'd either feed it right back and see what he does, or just tell him directly that while you get that it may be normal to look, treating you like one of his guy friends and telling you about it does indeed violate certain terms of the Princess Code, which you have every right to enforce. If he's been single for a while, he may just need a little training with this stuff. If he's willing to learn, and treat you the way you want to be treated, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

And that things are cooling a bit at the three month mark is TOTALLY normal. I wouldn't sweat that.

However, the big (and I do mean BIG) red flag in all of this for me is that he's in his mid forties and never married. There is a reason he hasn't settled down yet. And I would make it your mission to determine what that reason is. Like your therapist said, once you worked your issues out, you were surrounded by the right kind of guys. So what have his issues been? Has he worked them out yet?

You sound like you are really on your game, with a fulfilling life and a healthy sense of self awareness. And you're trying to take the relationship seriously and do the right thing. I'd just be absolutely sure that your hard work is being met by an equal commitment from him, and not just an appreciation of how hot you are. You're going to be fine, with or without him. But I think it will probably just take some more time to figure out whether he actually is The One.
posted by smallstatic at 11:19 AM on July 4, 2008 [1 favorite]

> everyone likes to look at pretty things. period.

Yeah, but honestly there are guys that don't find "hot women" pretty. Maybe they find a LISP machine pretty or whatever, a neat-o bit of code, frogs in a pond. Not every guy is interested in other women, not even looking, and that is a fact. But they may be so rare that many people don't believe they exist. Yeah, but we are not typical, it's true. People value different things. And if you've been abused/neglected, you may really value some different things.
posted by Listener at 2:05 PM on July 9, 2008

Yeah, but honestly there are guys that don't find "hot women" pretty.

sure, "pretty" can be subjective. and just cause they look doesn't mean they want to do anything about it (i.e. hit on) but don't delude yourself: might not be your stereotypical "hot" woman, but they still notice what they are attracted to—otherwise, how would he have noticed you?
posted by violetk at 4:11 PM on July 9, 2008

Noticing ≠ declaring them hot. Everyone notices people attractive to them, but not everyone feels the need to rudely announce it.

Sometimes I feel like Metafilter is the land of "ALL men gape openly at hot women and have 50 GB hardcore porn collections and that's not just normal, it's A-OK."
posted by melissam at 5:07 PM on July 9, 2008