Should I say or should I come?

June 14, 2008 11:21 AM

Should I say or should I come? or, should a girl say that she didn't have an orgasm.

Specifically I'd like to know what guys would want, but girls, I would also love to know how you handle this situation. The situation is sex with someone you met through a dating site, and the girl doesn't have an orgasm, not because the sex is bad, but just practicalities like unable to get the timing right, unfamililarity with the other person and what they like etc. So the sex is great but the girl doesn't get off (but is okay with it), but should she say so? Guys, do you want to know? Do you need to know? Would you be okay if she said it was great, but you didn't know if she came or not? And if you do want to know, how would you like to be told? How does it make you feel to know that she didn't come BUT really enjoyed it? Is mishandling this situation (e.g., telling the guy that you didn't come) grounds for never hearing from them again? If so, can it be fixed?

Please don't speak to me of faking it because I don't like the precedent that that sets, and I really don't think that boys need to have that kind of confusion hoisted on them.

Girls, have you encountered this and handled it successfully? How?

And as a corollary to the above, if a girl wants oral in order to have her orgasm and the guy doesn't seem to be heading that way, is there a good way to suggest it? I haven't encountered anyone who needs that suggested to them so I am really flummoxed as to how to handle it. Is there some universal code word or gesture that communicates one's desire to be eaten out other than "I'm female and naked in bed with you"?

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posted by anonymous to human relations (34 comments total)

Is there some universal code word or gesture that communicates one's desire to be eaten out
If she touches the top of your head, chances are good. Also you could just ask.
posted by DenOfSizer at 11:25 AM on June 14

if the sex was fantastic, i always so say so (and thank him for it), regardless of whether i had an orgasm or not (which is rare). just because i don't have an orgasm doesn't mean i didn't enjoy myself enormously. i don't know anyone who doesn't like to hear how great the sex was. what would be the point of volunteering that you didn't come (unless specifically asked)?

as for wanting oral, depends on the situation but i might gently push him down or, more expediently, just straight out ask for it—as dirty as possible.
posted by violetk at 11:35 AM on June 14

but should she say so? Guys, do you want to know? Do you need to know?

Absolutely yes; it's important information to have, as it is in my medium-term best interests that my partner enjoys sex.

The best presentation of this information would include some idea of what to change to fix the problem. Knowing something is wrong but not knowing what would leave the guy stabbing in the dark for a solution, so to speak.
posted by Mike1024 at 11:49 AM on June 14

You should tell him, "The rule is: ladies first."
posted by winston at 11:50 AM on June 14

As a guy I do not want my parnet to fake it, no matter how rarely it happens. Sex should be about fun and enjoyment, not about worrying or performance. Finding out my girlfriend fakes regularly is grounds for having a Serious Talk. Not faking it lets us be more honest about what we want, and nothing can improve the quality of sex like being open, honest, and communicative about what you want.

_{(Corollary: Never date anyone who doesn't masturbate. If they don't know what they like, what chance do I have?)}

But I'm in my 30's now. When I was younger I was dead targeted on the O and would go to ridiculous lengths to please annoy my partners. In hind sight I can see why they faked, but I frankly didn't believe (or my ego, and ego jr wouldn't let me believe) the whole "Wow that was amazing, and it's really okay that I didn't climax" line. Until it happened to me the first time. I didn't climax, but I had a really good time, would happily do it again and again. And so I did. A didn't worry about it and neither did my partner and whaddayaknow, I got off no problem once all of the kinks were worked out in.

Guess what I'm saying is that, like everything else about sex, it depends on the people involved, thier experiences and preferences and how they interact.

Except for requesting oral. Universal sign for "I want oral" for both boys and girls is gentle pressure on the top of the head in the desired direction. Conversely "I'm sick of oral" is grabbing the head and lifting.
posted by Ookseer at 11:58 AM on June 14

Yes! This guy would want to know. Communication is sexy. And I'm convicted the majority of us can tell anyway.
Cunnilingus is great. But women need to remember that's like...swallowing, several loads. And with the increased risk and higher rates of guys getting head and neck cancer from preforming oral sex on females, I for one wouldn't go down on just anyone anymore. An STD is one thing, a horrific death is another.
posted by dawson at 12:00 PM on June 14 [1 favorite]

Cunnilingus is great. But women need to remember that's like...swallowing, several loads.

so you're saying that for a girl to get oral once, she needs to have blown the guy several times? uh—no.

And with the increased risk and higher rates of guys getting head and neck cancer from preforming oral sex on females…

what??
posted by violetk at 12:06 PM on June 14

what??

You know how HPV causes cervical cancer? It also causes throat cancer. Dudes who get HPV from cunnilingus are 32x as likely to develop oral or throat cancer than people without HPV. For comparison, the rates for smokers are 3x that of non-smokers. So oral HPV is like 10x worse than smoking in terms of cancer rates.

Scary, but there it is.
posted by Justinian at 12:21 PM on June 14 [1 favorite]

If the guy thinks you came but you didn't, then next time he's going to keep doing things that he thinks make you come (but don't). OTOH, you say you're OK with this: you're happy and satisfied, you just didn't have an orgasm.

That's a pretty foreign situation to most guys, I think, especially younger guys. Personally, even if I'm otherwise happy and satisfied, I'm usually going to feel a deep sense of frustration for a while, physical and mental. Sure, it fades quickly enough, but sex is all about pleasure in the moment. Plus the post-orgasmic glow is really nice.

So your guy might well be thinking "She didn't come but she wants to stop anyway? That makes no sense. She must really have not been enjoying it at all, and is just saying she enjoyed it to save my feelings or to get me to leave her alone. Man, this sucks."

Also, what Ookseer said.
posted by hattifattener at 12:25 PM on June 14

so you're saying that for a girl to get oral once, she needs to have blown the guy several times?

NO, no no. I didn't mean to imply that. I just think it's something many woman don't realize, or acknowledge. but my experience is mostly good, and mostly limited.

And the dangers of unsafe and frequent cunnilingus, here, here, here, here and here, as well as here, here, and here...for starters.
posted by dawson at 12:27 PM on June 14 [1 favorite]

The study, which appears in this week's New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM), shows that men and women who reported having six or more oral-sex partners during their lifetime had a nearly ninefold increased risk of developing cancer of the tonsils or at the base of the tongue.

And oral with aHPV positive woman is a bigger risk than oral sex than with an partner with HIV.
This gives pause to me who are informed.
posted by dawson at 12:32 PM on June 14

not to me who are informen, I was gonna say me, then meant to say 'those'.
Anyway, yes, tell him the truth. A secure, experienced man knows a woman doesn't have to orgasm every time he does in order to enjoy sex.
posted by dawson at 12:34 PM on June 14

I think attitude matters in this situation. If a woman starts yelling and complaining about she hasn't had an orgasm, that's probably a turn off.

If she playfully pushes his head to her crotch and says "Oh, I'm not quite there yet" there will probably be a more positive response.

So the sex is great but the girl doesn't get off (but is okay with it), but should she say so?

It depends on the situation. In the one you described, the sex was great, but the timing seemed to be a bit off, so that's something that is probably easily worked out. In that particular case, it might be wiser to give it another chance or two to see if things go better, especially with a bit of subtle guidance from the woman.

Either way, it shouldn't be something that is allowed to go on for long. A girl has her needs and all that...


is there a good way to suggest it?

Never suggest it, always explicitly ask for it. In fact, before you even get into bed, you guys should have talked about it. I don't mean a boring conversation where you two compare lists, but a bit of healthy flirting where you talk about things you'd liked to do to each and have done. Always, ALWAYS bring up oral sex, so you can articulate your feelings on it and get those of your partner's.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:35 PM on June 14 [1 favorite]

First of all, you're on the right track with not wanting to fake. Don't even consider faking it. If you fake and the fella finds out, it seriously fucks up your sex life with him. No pun intended.

Second, directly asking for oral is just fine and severely sexy. Just pushing him down there is also absolutely acceptable and crazy hot (IMO, anyhow). And since I'm just giving opinions anyhow, I'm very, very suspicious of dudes that don't love eating pussy. A request for cunnilingus is an invitation to engage in one of my favorite activities - so don't ever worry about asking for it.

Third, I think most guys really, really want to make their partners climax - the whole conquest thing, I guess. As hattifattener says, guys have a hard time accepting the statement "the sex was great even though I didn't come." - once that's translated through the insecurity matrix, it reaches us as "I'm giving up on you making me come, please stop trying."
posted by EatTheWeak at 12:45 PM on June 14 [1 favorite]

Experiment with masturbation to know what gets you off. Then when you're having sex with your boyfriend, instruct him as to what gives you pleasure. Then you'll both be happier.
posted by PowerCat at 1:11 PM on June 14

All I do is say at the beginning of the relationship, "Sweetheart, I'm not going to come every time, but that doesn't mean I'm not enjoying myself. I will let you know if I'm not.", and that's that.

It helps that I don't value the orgasm as much as I do the sex. Some people are all bent out of shape about orgasming every time, but for me, it's not the goal- I just want to have fun, and I do my best to let my partner know that. No one has ever been upset or alarmed by my forthrightness.

I have encountered men who didn't like being "guided" to what I wanted, but they got over it.
posted by sunshinesky at 1:40 PM on June 14 [1 favorite]

Please don't speak to me of faking it

Eh? Your choices are telling him you didn't come, or telling him you did (i.e. lying, read: faking). You don't have to make obnoxious porn star noises in order to "fake it." All you need to do is say "yes, I came" when you actually didn't.

In the early stages of a relationship I've found that guys are disappointed when they find out I didn't come, as if they'd done something wrong. As the relationship progresses it becomes clear to them that sometimes it just doesn't happen, yet I'm still satisfied. For me it would depend on how much I like the guy. If I wasn't intending on seeing him again anyway, then a white lie doesn't hurt anyone. If I want to continue the relationship, I'd say "I didn't go over the edge but it was still really good for me." Then if he could have done something differently to put me over the edge, the next time we start getting frisky I'd say "I'd really love for you to do ____"

You can also request oral by simply having a conversation. Ask him what sexual act he likes best. He'll tell you, and then he'll ask you what you like best. If he doesn't ask, DTMFA. If you answer "being eaten out" and he doesn't do it, DTMFA. As Dan Savage said, oral should come standard with any relationship.
posted by desjardins at 1:44 PM on June 14 [1 favorite]

i never tell a guy. i have faked it in the past, but i don't now. but if i had fun anyway, i just say, "wow, that was a lot of fun! you're good at that!" with a big smile and a kiss. the key is to give him lots of positive feedback, so he doesn't stop to worry about his prowess.
posted by thinkingwoman at 1:56 PM on June 14 [1 favorite]

dawson, certainly there is a risk with any unprotected sexual activity, but I think you're overstating the issue. From your first two links:

Gillison added that "people should be reassured that oropharyngeal cancer is relatively uncommon, and the overwhelming majority of people with an oral HPV infection probably will not get throat cancer," says Gillison.

Everybody assumes oral sex is a possible link to HPV infection, but if your partner had oral sex and is a carrier of the virus, that could be another link. No one is sure. [emphasis mine]

Between 12,000 and 15,000 new cases of oropharyngeal cancer are diagnosed each year, and about 3,000 people die from it.

A man is 10x more likely to get prostate cancer and 3x more likely to get colon cancer over his lifetime if he lives to be 75. (via)

Also, from the CDC site: there is currently no approved test to find HPV or related cancers in men. But HPV is very common and HPV-related cancers are very rare in men.
posted by desjardins at 2:08 PM on June 14 [4 favorites]

As a guy, if a woman wants orgasm and hasn't had one, I'd rather it be mentioned tactfully so I can help do something about it.
posted by rodgerd at 2:13 PM on June 14

[a few comments removed - any more HPV/cancer talk needs to go straight to metatalk, thanks.]
posted by jessamyn at 2:28 PM on June 14

I used to fake it sometimes when I was a lot younger. Eventually I realised that it was counterproductive in terms of getting what I wanted, ie. it was giving the wrong feedback to the guy. Now I never fake it, probably only have an orgasm about 50 % of the time, but am always happy with the sex.
posted by gaspode at 2:39 PM on June 14

If two people have reached the state where they feel comfortable enough with one another that they can not only be naked in front of each other but are actually having sex, you should think that a level of intellectual maturity would, or indeed should, be present. Given this, here are the answers to your questions as I see them.

1) You should not fake it and you should tell your partner that you didn't come. This allows communication which can lead not only to future encounters but also solutions and techniques that may allow one or both people to reach orgasm.

2) You should simply say you would like some oral sex. Who cares about a subtle signal when you're having sex. Hell, talk dirty! Say "hey baby, I really want you to eat me out" or something like that.

In short, communicate, communicate, communicate.
posted by Effigy2000 at 3:06 PM on June 14

I think that if you just started having sex with him then for now is not necessary to tell him anything unless he asks...later on when both of you feel comfortable then you can tell him no you didnt come and what it takes to get you there (but always throw in that he is still quite good and possibly one of the best you've been with yada yada)
posted by The1andonly at 3:18 PM on June 14

I'd be OK with it, but masculine pride would probably motivate me to try harder. And to echo the sentiments above, the bedroom is no place to mince words, tell him what you want.
posted by jonmc at 4:57 PM on June 14

i never tell a guy. i have faked it in the past, but i don't now. but if i had fun anyway, i just say, "wow, that was a lot of fun! you're good at that!" with a big smile and a kiss. the key is to give him lots of positive feedback, so he doesn't stop to worry about his prowess.

That's fine in a lot of cases, but when I've asked and gotten this response, it's totally thrown me off. Cageyness leads to doubt and doubt isn't sexy. If you didn't come and that's fine, cool. If you didn't come and you want to, that's also cool. Just let me know what's going on.
posted by squidlarkin at 5:01 PM on June 14 [1 favorite]

Communication, communication, communication. It might feel weird at first, asking things like "Do you want me to put my hand here?" or "Do you like this harder, or softer?" or, hell, simply "This? Or this?", while in the middle of Making Sex, but it goes a long way to obviating these particular obstacles. And on top of asking questions, you need to be telling your partner what you want too. "Harder" or "nuh uh" (with a gentle removal of the hand or whatever part of anatomy) or even an "Mmm" will take your sex from "decent" to "moar!".

The human species has one thing going for it, and that is the ability to form words with our oral apparatus. We can't control our scent glands or the colour of our plumage, but we can tell our sexual partners what we like and what we dislike. Why one of the most profoundly intimate acts you could ever participate in with another individual should suddenly become a No Go Zone for clear expression is something I have a lot of difficulty understanding.

And in response to your specific question: "That was amazing - keep going, I want to come [insert appropriately filthy/romantic wordstring here]." Hey presto!
posted by turgid dahlia at 6:11 PM on June 14 [1 favorite]

Oh, and don't equivocate. At the end of it all when you're done searching for tissues or picking the gravel out of your back, a straightforward "I fucking love it when you do X" or "I really don't like it when you do Y" is doing both parties a favour, as you work together to create what I guess might be called a Successful Sexual Dialogue. That way, next time 'round there'll be plenty more X and a lot less Y and it's just going to get better and better. Hooray!
posted by turgid dahlia at 6:14 PM on June 14 [1 favorite]

I informed my boyfriend that it takes at least 30 minutes at this time in my life and that it just wasn't going to happen every time and sometimes we can try and it won't work. BUT the corollary is that I don't need it to be satisfied. I'm perfectly happy most of the time not having one and when I do manage it, he knows that it's special and he is excited. I used to fake it because I didn't even know how to have one and I wasn't even sure what it was supposed to fell like and faking it kept me from really having one because my bf didn't know he needed to put in more effort.
posted by idle at 6:22 PM on June 14

...I'd rather it be mentioned tactfully so I can help do something about it.
...I'd be OK with it, but masculine pride would probably motivate me to try harder...


I don't get this. When I tell I guy I didn't come, no amount of trying is going to help. In fact, desperation is extremely unsexy. Sometimes I just can't do it! Is it so insulting that one day you do it for me and the next you can't? It's insulting to me that you think that you can control my bodily functions!
posted by sunshinesky at 9:28 PM on June 14 [1 favorite]

"Did you come?"

"Not this time, but if we practice regularly, I'm sure we'll get there."

This says 1. I didn't come 2. But I enjoyed the sex enough to want to do it again.
posted by happyturtle at 11:21 AM on June 15

@sunshinesky

We also hear phrases like, "the rule is: ladies first", and that the typical bad lover who only makes sure he comes. Some guys are aware of things like this and feel guilty or selfish if they come and the girl doesn't. It's not insulting if a girl doesn't come, the guy just feels like a person who received an awesome Christmas present and didn't buy anything in return. It's fine to explain that, no, you don't always need anything in return. But if you get insulted by a guy who is motivated to be fair, then that seems like some kind of strange mind game that the guy can only lose.
posted by kosmonaut at 7:18 PM on June 15 [1 favorite]

Is there some universal code word or gesture that communicates one's desire to be eaten out other than "I'm female and naked in bed with you"?

Haha, yeah that's a pretty good signal.. universal even! But if they don't get it, just say "God.., I'm soooo turned on right now -- if you go down on me, I'm pretty sure I'll come!" I actually think this is a pretty timid way to do it, but if it's a new lover, it's probably "safest". (Although climbing up and straddling his face sends a pretty clear message...)

But, really, for some girls, it just takes time before they get comfortable enough to come with a new partner. And some guys take more time to figure out what a new girl likes. I think something like happyturtle's "Not this time, but if we practice regularly, I'm sure we'll get there." followed by some snuggly kisses, etc. (and I do love me some "etc.") is perfect.

The "ladies first" rule is great if the chemistry is already there and he's just being a selfish/lazy lover..., but if he's tryin' and it's just not happenin', that's just going to put more pressure on everybody and make it even *harder* for you to come.
posted by LordSludge at 10:23 AM on June 16

Sort of a me too - but Yes, we want to know. Yes, we want to know exactly what worked and what didn't. And yes, just say what you want using words.

If someone doesn't want to do what gives you pleasure, or doesn't even seem to care, then they are obviously not compatible in the bedroom. But you won't know that if you don't tell them.

LordSludge is correct. Everyone is different, and we need to be (for lack of a better term) retrained for each new partner. We can't do that without feedback though, and if I found out later that she were faking or not telling me what she wanted, I'd be pretty upset.
posted by John Kenneth Fisher at 6:49 AM on June 17