What To Say To A Crazymaking Boss?
May 3, 2008 10:34 AM Subscribe
The CEO of my agency is a micro-managing control freak who thrives in chaos. Otherwise, she's a pretty nice person. I've only been at this nonprofit human services agency three months. In that time, the situation has become clear. I've seen this elsewhere, and others have walked away from the agency because of it (including two executive assistants in a year).
I don't want to leave the job, though I truly don't need it. I also don't expect the CEO to change, but is there anything I can say to her that will create a zone of comfort for me as I do my job? Yes, there is a layer of management between me and her. But, this makes no difference; my director was hired by her, all centers on her, and everyone (except the old-timers and their staff-members) is in the the whirlpool that circles around her.
My director is out on maternity leave. I took a day and a half mental-health time last week and am going to talk with the CEO about the situation this week. What would you say, if anything?
I don't want to leave the job, though I truly don't need it. I also don't expect the CEO to change, but is there anything I can say to her that will create a zone of comfort for me as I do my job? Yes, there is a layer of management between me and her. But, this makes no difference; my director was hired by her, all centers on her, and everyone (except the old-timers and their staff-members) is in the the whirlpool that circles around her.
My director is out on maternity leave. I took a day and a half mental-health time last week and am going to talk with the CEO about the situation this week. What would you say, if anything?
Can you give some examples of what might be driving you crazy? It's hard to understand how you make the leap from "she thrives in chaos" to "I'm thinking of quitting this job." It's obvious that you're deeply upset by her behavior, but can you be any more specific about how it relates to you personally?
posted by GardenGal at 11:44 AM on May 3, 2008
posted by GardenGal at 11:44 AM on May 3, 2008
Taking off on the "micro managing control freak" thing, I envision the following:
1- She is distrustful of her employees and/or a bad manager. The only way to fix this from your end is to manage her. Tell her that you need to know what her expectations are, and that you will complete them. If she has problems with continually changing what she wants resulting in you not knowing what the final request is, ask her to verbalize when she is just spitballing, and when she is satisfied that she has worked out what she wants. Be a trusted employee whom she can depend on. Eventually things will settle.
2- She has some kind of attention deficit thing where she needs to constantly be fighting fires or else she can't get anything done. Kind of the same answer, except that you have to resign yourself to the fact that you have to ride on her rollercoaster to be able to work at this place. Carry a clipboard and write the things down that she asks for so you can get them done later, so you aren't caught up in the whirlwind. I've worked for people like this, and it is maddening. And sometimes you have to flat out say things like "you just told me to complete the Jenkins report and now you're telling me to order copier paper. Which do you want me to do first?" Often people accustomed to this "management" style forget what they've said moment to moment and appreciate the reminder.
3- Similarly, maybe she's just plain disorganized. Try to do your part to improve orderliness. Maybe she's having extra trouble because that person is on leave?
Talk to her, acknowlege that you have different working styles, and try to come to an understanding of what you both need to do to help each other be at their best.
posted by gjc at 1:09 PM on May 3, 2008
1- She is distrustful of her employees and/or a bad manager. The only way to fix this from your end is to manage her. Tell her that you need to know what her expectations are, and that you will complete them. If she has problems with continually changing what she wants resulting in you not knowing what the final request is, ask her to verbalize when she is just spitballing, and when she is satisfied that she has worked out what she wants. Be a trusted employee whom she can depend on. Eventually things will settle.
2- She has some kind of attention deficit thing where she needs to constantly be fighting fires or else she can't get anything done. Kind of the same answer, except that you have to resign yourself to the fact that you have to ride on her rollercoaster to be able to work at this place. Carry a clipboard and write the things down that she asks for so you can get them done later, so you aren't caught up in the whirlwind. I've worked for people like this, and it is maddening. And sometimes you have to flat out say things like "you just told me to complete the Jenkins report and now you're telling me to order copier paper. Which do you want me to do first?" Often people accustomed to this "management" style forget what they've said moment to moment and appreciate the reminder.
3- Similarly, maybe she's just plain disorganized. Try to do your part to improve orderliness. Maybe she's having extra trouble because that person is on leave?
Talk to her, acknowlege that you have different working styles, and try to come to an understanding of what you both need to do to help each other be at their best.
posted by gjc at 1:09 PM on May 3, 2008
I.. am going to talk with the CEO about the situation this week. What would you say, if anything?
I suggest you talk about yourself and your issues, and bring up your director only peripherally, if at all.
One of the workplace rules that I've discovered to be universally true is this: You do not get to dictate your boss' behavior.
I proposed this once before on AskMe and it didn't get a very good reaction; I am repeating it here because I think that it's true, even if a lot of people would like it to be otherwise. It is certainly true that a lot of people have worked for an abusive boss and that a lot of other people work in situations where the personalities are incompatible to the degree that a lot of distress is caused. I don't endorse these situations; I think they're unfortunate; but I've found that even in those situations, generally you don't get to dictate your boss' behavior. In fact, often to keep your job, the reverse is found to be true.
The solution to your problem, if any exists, is going to be about you and focused on you. If you go into your CEO's office recognizing this from the outset, I think the likelihood of getting a successful outcome is going to be much greater.
posted by ikkyu2 at 1:14 PM on May 3, 2008 [3 favorites]
I suggest you talk about yourself and your issues, and bring up your director only peripherally, if at all.
One of the workplace rules that I've discovered to be universally true is this: You do not get to dictate your boss' behavior.
I proposed this once before on AskMe and it didn't get a very good reaction; I am repeating it here because I think that it's true, even if a lot of people would like it to be otherwise. It is certainly true that a lot of people have worked for an abusive boss and that a lot of other people work in situations where the personalities are incompatible to the degree that a lot of distress is caused. I don't endorse these situations; I think they're unfortunate; but I've found that even in those situations, generally you don't get to dictate your boss' behavior. In fact, often to keep your job, the reverse is found to be true.
The solution to your problem, if any exists, is going to be about you and focused on you. If you go into your CEO's office recognizing this from the outset, I think the likelihood of getting a successful outcome is going to be much greater.
posted by ikkyu2 at 1:14 PM on May 3, 2008 [3 favorites]
GardenGal -- Sure. She attends every meeting and conference. She edits every piece of publicity or correspondence to leave the office (this written by seasoned professionals). Information is on a need to know basis. She calls unscheduled, unnecessary meetings late in the day (and other times as well). We are scheduled for meetings that we have no reason to attend. We are given important assignments at the last minute when there could have been plenty of lead time. This is what comes to mind right now.
posted by partner at 1:28 PM on May 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by partner at 1:28 PM on May 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
I don't think you'll get anywhere by a big confrontation. I think you might want to start looking for another job, and also that you might want to do what you can regarding the separate, individual behaviors to create more sanity for yourself and potentially cause her behavior to improve. Basically, set limits and communicate what the impacts of her decisions will be.
> She edits every piece of publicity or correspondence to leave the office (this written by seasoned professionals)
Does this cause you a problem?
> Information is on a need to know basis.
Does this cause you a problem? You're getting what you need to know, when you need to know it?
> She calls unscheduled...meetings late in the day (and other times as well)
"Just to let you know, I have to leave right at 5 today. Sorry." Ideally, you'd be consistent with this (leaving at the same time every day).
> unnecessary meetings...meetings that we have no reason to attend
Two choices. Think to yourself "well, what the hell, I'm getting paid." Or say, "I'm wondering if it's important for me to be there. It will push back when I will be able to finish the Smith Project."
> "given important assignments at the last minute when there could have been plenty of lead time"
Do your best on the assignment, but also say, "I wish I had more time to work on this. I don't know if it's possible to have more lead time next time, but that would make me able to do a better job on it."
posted by salvia at 1:47 PM on May 3, 2008
> She edits every piece of publicity or correspondence to leave the office (this written by seasoned professionals)
Does this cause you a problem?
> Information is on a need to know basis.
Does this cause you a problem? You're getting what you need to know, when you need to know it?
> She calls unscheduled...meetings late in the day (and other times as well)
"Just to let you know, I have to leave right at 5 today. Sorry." Ideally, you'd be consistent with this (leaving at the same time every day).
> unnecessary meetings...meetings that we have no reason to attend
Two choices. Think to yourself "well, what the hell, I'm getting paid." Or say, "I'm wondering if it's important for me to be there. It will push back when I will be able to finish the Smith Project."
> "given important assignments at the last minute when there could have been plenty of lead time"
Do your best on the assignment, but also say, "I wish I had more time to work on this. I don't know if it's possible to have more lead time next time, but that would make me able to do a better job on it."
posted by salvia at 1:47 PM on May 3, 2008
GardenGal -- Sure. She attends every meeting and conference. She edits every piece of publicity or correspondence to leave the office (this written by seasoned professionals). Information is on a need to know basis. She calls unscheduled, unnecessary meetings late in the day (and other times as well). We are scheduled for meetings that we have no reason to attend. We are given important assignments at the last minute when there could have been plenty of lead time. This is what comes to mind right now.
This sounds a lot like my office. And I agree completely with ikk2yu.
As for some of the specifics, I'd advise you to not let everything get under your skin. She runs herself ragged and then doesn't have time to be a good manager to her staff...this is a very commonplace scenario for CEOs who are either founders or have an exceptionally strong personal commitment and feel personally responsible for every detail.
Meetings, even when annoying and unnecessary, are an opportunity for you to show your best side, which will help you at review-time. gjc's point 2 is a good technique for 'managing up', which can be a helpful strategy to both keep her reassured and keep you from going nuts.
posted by desuetude at 2:21 PM on May 3, 2008
This sounds a lot like my office. And I agree completely with ikk2yu.
As for some of the specifics, I'd advise you to not let everything get under your skin. She runs herself ragged and then doesn't have time to be a good manager to her staff...this is a very commonplace scenario for CEOs who are either founders or have an exceptionally strong personal commitment and feel personally responsible for every detail.
Meetings, even when annoying and unnecessary, are an opportunity for you to show your best side, which will help you at review-time. gjc's point 2 is a good technique for 'managing up', which can be a helpful strategy to both keep her reassured and keep you from going nuts.
posted by desuetude at 2:21 PM on May 3, 2008
If you dont like your bosses behavior you cannot change it and your probably not the first to try. and trying to do so usually only harms you. I remember I had a sign at my desk that read "Your Lack Of Planning Is Not My Crisis". --- Personally, if I didn't really need the job like you said, I would be leaving.
posted by BillsR100 at 3:01 PM on May 3, 2008
posted by BillsR100 at 3:01 PM on May 3, 2008
The CEO sounds like she is not a good match for the position she holds — she doesn't have the management skills to do her job well. She is not going to change her management style — for you or anyone else — so don't look for a change from her. Unless you have a direct line to the board of directors and can convince them to fire the CEO and bring in a new person with the needed skills, then you're better off leaving this crazy situation. Life is too short.
posted by exphysicist345 at 4:04 PM on May 3, 2008
posted by exphysicist345 at 4:04 PM on May 3, 2008
Two other tidbits of advice:
May I gently suggest that after only three months, the situation may not be entirely clear? (It's commonly thought that all new employees, no matter how experienced, need a full year to learn the job. Three months is still "brand spanking new.")
If the CEO is agreeing to meet with you, it's to discuss your work, not hers.
posted by desuetude at 6:19 PM on May 3, 2008
May I gently suggest that after only three months, the situation may not be entirely clear? (It's commonly thought that all new employees, no matter how experienced, need a full year to learn the job. Three months is still "brand spanking new.")
If the CEO is agreeing to meet with you, it's to discuss your work, not hers.
posted by desuetude at 6:19 PM on May 3, 2008
I agree that you cannot change your CEO's behaviour but you can manage their expectations.
I have a team of managers I work for and quite often they come up with completely unreasonable schedules/conflicting schedules etc. And I find that there are two keys to getting my job done, keeping my teams happy, my bosses happy and myself happy.
One is the way you present yourself. My colleagues know me to be somebody who gets the job done - always. Because my bosses have the expectation that I will get the job done, that I will communicate any serious problems as they arise (no nasty surprises) they trust me.
The second is that you have to be proactive. Because my managers trust me they also normally listen when I tell them their schedules are unreasonable. I make sure to always propose alternatives which still meet the overall deadline but also allow my teams and me to keep our sanity....
Now clearly some people have a greater need to be in control, are more set in their ways/stubborn whatever you want to call it...in that instance I just keep talking to them on a daily basis about how the project is going, what progress to expect by the original (internal) deadline. So when the deadline comes along they know the job won't be finished, they also know when it will be done by (my proposed alternative schedule) and they thus don't get all overexcited because aspects are incomplete...they have also had time to consider the alternative schedule and have begun to see its merits...
This combination seems to work with all basically decent people - irrespective of their management skills or lack of. If you find yourself dealing with a bully both will work to signal that you know you are good at your job and and that you will not be bullied.
Your CEO seems to be just bad at managing. So, if she calls a meeting late in the day make it clear you have to leave at a certain time - preferably the time you always leave as there then is an expeactation that you leave at that time.
If she gives you a project to do at the last minute make it clear you will do your best but that more lead time would allow you to do it better etc.
If she leaves it so late that you cannot finish the project at all explain that and propose a solution (extend deadline, throw more resource at it).
This will take some time to work properly - the CEO's behaviour is likely to have been reinforced by changes in staff you mention - she feels she had to be even more involved because the new people can't be trusted to get it right...
If you find you can't/don't want to do that find a different job - as somebody else said life's too short.
posted by koahiatamadl at 6:35 AM on May 4, 2008
I have a team of managers I work for and quite often they come up with completely unreasonable schedules/conflicting schedules etc. And I find that there are two keys to getting my job done, keeping my teams happy, my bosses happy and myself happy.
One is the way you present yourself. My colleagues know me to be somebody who gets the job done - always. Because my bosses have the expectation that I will get the job done, that I will communicate any serious problems as they arise (no nasty surprises) they trust me.
The second is that you have to be proactive. Because my managers trust me they also normally listen when I tell them their schedules are unreasonable. I make sure to always propose alternatives which still meet the overall deadline but also allow my teams and me to keep our sanity....
Now clearly some people have a greater need to be in control, are more set in their ways/stubborn whatever you want to call it...in that instance I just keep talking to them on a daily basis about how the project is going, what progress to expect by the original (internal) deadline. So when the deadline comes along they know the job won't be finished, they also know when it will be done by (my proposed alternative schedule) and they thus don't get all overexcited because aspects are incomplete...they have also had time to consider the alternative schedule and have begun to see its merits...
This combination seems to work with all basically decent people - irrespective of their management skills or lack of. If you find yourself dealing with a bully both will work to signal that you know you are good at your job and and that you will not be bullied.
Your CEO seems to be just bad at managing. So, if she calls a meeting late in the day make it clear you have to leave at a certain time - preferably the time you always leave as there then is an expeactation that you leave at that time.
If she gives you a project to do at the last minute make it clear you will do your best but that more lead time would allow you to do it better etc.
If she leaves it so late that you cannot finish the project at all explain that and propose a solution (extend deadline, throw more resource at it).
This will take some time to work properly - the CEO's behaviour is likely to have been reinforced by changes in staff you mention - she feels she had to be even more involved because the new people can't be trusted to get it right...
If you find you can't/don't want to do that find a different job - as somebody else said life's too short.
posted by koahiatamadl at 6:35 AM on May 4, 2008
« Older Can US citizens visit US naval ports abroad? | How to find replacement skeleton keys for old... Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by salvia at 10:53 AM on May 3, 2008