How can I get my cat to stop knocking stuff over?

March 25, 2008 9:10 PM

My 7 month old cat won't stop knocking over flower vases when we're out of the house. How can I get him to understand that knocking stuff over is bad?

He never does it when we're home but when ever we return from being gone for a couple hours, a vase has been knocked over. He only knocks over flowers. I understand that he most likely just wants to play with the flowers but he needs to understand that it's bad. Up until yesterday we were mostly ok with it but yesterday afternoon while I was upstairs and the lady was at work, cat knocked over a completely full vase of water onto 65% of our important documents (lesson learned - flowers stay away from important stuff).

We are first-time cat owners. How can we keep a cat and flowers? Will he grow out of it? Is he acting out some sort of aggression that we should be more receptive to? How can we effectively reprimand him if we often return to a mess that he created possibly hours before? Is there a way to get him to connect our disapproval with his punishment? Do cats even respond to punishment?

posted by RobertFrost to pets & animals (28 comments total)

Is it possible he's thirsty? Does he always have access to plenty of water?
posted by Ugh at 9:15 PM on March 25, 2008

Cats do respond to punishment, but only if the bad deed is followed immediately by punishment. If he's not knocking them over in your presence, then punishment is not possible. Can you put the vases somewhere he can't get to when you're not around?
posted by Airhen at 9:18 PM on March 25, 2008

I would get some of those flattened glass marbles at a craft store and fill the vase partway with them. Then add your water and flowers. The weight on the bottom should make it more difficult to tip over.

Alternatively, you could get a flower aquarium.

My cats enjoy running water - maybe a kitty fountain would keep him away from your vases.

I have found that you can't really teach a cat anything. They are obstinate creatures with no regard for authority. My cats are 10 and 12 and I still haven't figured out how to stop them from doing stuff I don't like, sadly.

You can't reprimand cats or dogs unless you catch them in the act. They just don't make the connection.
posted by Ostara at 9:21 PM on March 25, 2008

How can we keep a cat and flowers?

Get heavy-based, stable vases.

Will he grow out of it?

Yes, once he learns that whatever he's getting out of it now doesn't work any more.

Is he acting out some sort of aggression that we should be more receptive to?

No.

How can we effectively reprimand him if we often return to a mess that he created possibly hours before?

You can't.

Is there a way to get him to connect our disapproval with his punishment?

No.

Do cats even respond to punishment?

Yes. They learn to fear those who punish them, and avoid their company.
posted by flabdablet at 9:21 PM on March 25, 2008 [2 favorites]

Put something really, really noisy and unpleasant in them. A large bell or something similar might work.
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 9:24 PM on March 25, 2008

How can we keep a cat and flowers?

With non-tippy vases. And even then sometimes the cat will eat the flowers, knock them onto the floor to play with them, or do something else that makes a big mess.

Will he grow out of it?

When the cat is about 15 years old it will be really mellow and slow and stop doing things like that. Young cats have lots of energy and like to knock things off of shelves and make big messes. Sometimes they do it deliberately, sometimes it is a side effect of jumping up and down from one shelf to another.

Is he acting out some sort of aggression that we should be more receptive to?

Maybe he resents having been neutered? I'm joking -- he's just being a kitty. When he craps in your shoe or pukes on your pillow, you will know he is angry and letting you know.

How can we effectively reprimand him if we often return to a mess that he created possibly hours before? Is there a way to get him to connect our disapproval with his punishment?

You can't. Kitty memories don't work that way. Spray him with water when you catch him in the act, but not hours later.

Do cats even respond to punishment?

Instantly, yes, but not after much time. And even with instant punishment they often don't seem to get it -- they aren't children or dogs. Some cats, you can spray with water or yell or even swat them, and ten minutes later they will again be up on the counter licking the butter. Sometimes I think they understand that they are being bad, but they just don't give a shit because those vases are so much fun to topple.
posted by Forktine at 9:31 PM on March 25, 2008 [1 favorite]

He does have plenty of water. We've considered the running water fountain thingy but they are kinda of expensive and we don't want to have to bring it back to the States.

I think we'll go the heavy vase route but the lady isn't going to like that. She is studying ikebana which places a lot of emphasis on the style of vase and, annoyingly enough, seems to prefer low center of gravity vases that allow for maximum tippage by cat.
posted by RobertFrost at 9:39 PM on March 25, 2008

Put something really, really noisy and unpleasant in them. A large bell or something similar might work.

Ha ha. If we did this, he would tip the flowers, spread them all over the floor, find the bell, proceed to knock it all over the house and eventually pass out from fatigue on the flowery mess. He loves bells :)
posted by RobertFrost at 9:43 PM on March 25, 2008 [1 favorite]

Oh goodness -- I can't see ikebana + a young cat working out easily. You're going to really have to be very clever, maybe keep them in separate rooms.
Ikebana can just look like so much fun to play with (for a cat). Good luck!
posted by amtho at 9:45 PM on March 25, 2008

Oh goodness -- I can't see ikebana + a young cat working out easily. You're going to really have to be very clever, maybe keep them in separate rooms.
Ikebana can just look like so much fun to play with (for a cat). Good luck!

Oh yes. Some arrangements, I swear, look exactly like cat toys - long, bouncy sticks with little tufts at the end. It was worse when he was younger. My girlfriend would spend hours on an arrangement only to find cat had spread it all over the room the next morning. It doesn't help that many arrangements are meant to be placed on the floor.
posted by RobertFrost at 9:49 PM on March 25, 2008

Do you have doors in your house/apartment that can be shut? Sometimes the only way I can stop my kittencat from getting into things she's not supposed to get into is to put a physical barrier between her and them. I don't like restricting her movement, but when I get home and find plants overturned, upholstery vomited on, trash cans foraged and all manners of items knocked off non-floor surfaces, sometimes it's the only option that seems to remain.

Perhaps the compromise between the lady and the cat would be to put the ikebana in a room that the cat isn't allowed access to?
posted by the luke parker fiasco at 10:07 PM on March 25, 2008 [1 favorite]

My mom was a life-long student of ikebana + a cat lover. A surprising number of traditional ikebana vases are made of solid iron. I inherited all of her iron vases: each one weighs at least 6# empty and thus far, they've proved cat-proof. I guess mom knew what she was doing, there.

For my lighter vases, I use museum wax on the bottom to stick them down. The flowers still get yanked out by the Monsters, but at least the vases aren't broken in the process.

For dry arrangements, I fill opaque vases with lead buckshot. The shot makes a surprisingly good medium to hold stems.

Regarding training: cats don't learn what you want them to learn.
posted by jamaro at 10:45 PM on March 25, 2008

It's a cat! Knocking shit over is what cats do!
posted by Jacqueline at 12:22 AM on March 26, 2008 [2 favorites]

What Jacqueline said...

Does he have his own extra special Ikebana? (I just googled it... you're joking right? I'd be really concerned if your kitty WAS NOT interested in it!) Inside kitties need entertaining and the rascally types even moreso!! And then every now and then you come across kitties that just like to be naughty...? All the damn time.

Admittedly my kitties have what was a feng shui fountain that I got for my 18th birthday but I don't think they're all that expensive... A dish with a pump in it will do the trick, anyway. Kittys need to drink lots of water and clean, cool, running water straight from the tap seems to be the preference around here, but I ain't standing around waiting for that all day... very often (and I know I'm not the only one!), so it's the next best thing.

What about some good double sided tape? Or putting some kind of cover over them when you're out. (Please don't lock him away.) It sounds like he just gets bored when he's alone, which isn't a crime. You didn't mention him being a ratbag in general so I'm inclined to think the anguish he's causing you is just an unintended consequence.

Ping pong balls are good. Fishing pole type dangle-ys are good too. Maybe a girl kitty to pounce on, nibble on her ears and so forth, of his very own...?
posted by mu~ha~ha~ha~har at 2:40 AM on March 26, 2008

Does he chew on the flowers? Our indoor cat loves gnawing on house plants. It could be he's just knocking them over in the process of trying to graze. Getting him some cat appropriate house plants, or even just a catnip or "cat grass", in an area you want to encourage him to hang out might help.
posted by hydropsyche at 3:04 AM on March 26, 2008

You need to establish your dominance.

The next time he does something you disapprove of, stick his head in your mouth as far as it'll go.
posted by Oktober at 5:39 AM on March 26, 2008 [1 favorite]

Even cats will learn from this:

Get a pack of mouse traps, set them, and put the plants on top. When they're lifted or tipped, they'll make a hell of a racket and kitty will learn that it's not so fun.
posted by cmiller at 5:51 AM on March 26, 2008

I'm sure your plants are nontoxic, but as a pet owner whose kitty ate some azaleas this weekend, I'm going through an overly cautious mode and am compelled to post this list so you can be sure that your flowers are cat safe.

Kitty is fine.
posted by phatkitten at 6:07 AM on March 26, 2008

Give the cat something more interesting to play with while you are gone.
posted by gjc at 7:19 AM on March 26, 2008

Our 3.5 year old cat enjoys knocking glasses over that we leave out because she can't fit her head in to get to the water. It's much easier when it's on the flood! :-) Eventually we hit upon separating the water dish and food dish locations after reading here, I think, that out in the wild no one would want to drink standing water nearby a fresh or not so fresh kill. After that she still did it sometimes but we have control over it... I keep my glass on a shelf rather than on top of the nightstand, etc. The vase ideas people have been posting above would probably give you the same degree of control.

Also, I had a really weird experience last night I wasn't prepared for. We were playing with a little wad of paper around the floor and I accidentally shot it into a low shelf with stuff on it. She went in and grabbed it and plucked it down in front of me. Realizing she'd just "fetched" I did the "good girl" thing and petted her a bit and gave her some treats she really likes before going back to playing. So I tried to get her to fetch again and I swear she spent about 10 minutes trying to figure out the new game (picking it up but going the wrong way! D'oh!) before getting fed up and running at me. I'm going to try again soon but point is - they're not completely untrainable. It'll probably just take really small steps and some luck.
posted by jwells at 7:46 AM on March 26, 2008

It's the flowers or the cat. You can't have both, at least not in the same room at the same time. My fiance is slowly, slowly learning that if he leaves his shoes in the living room, the shoelaces WILL be gone. There is nothing to do about this except make sure the cats don't have access to the shoes. You can spray the cat with water all you like, and as soon as he's sure you're gone, he'll do the exact same behavior again.
posted by desjardins at 8:27 AM on March 26, 2008

One thought: cats evidently realllllly dislike aluminum foil. For a few weeks, put aluminum foil on the area nearest to the subject vases.

Cat goes towards vase, suddenly goes "aggh foil beneath paws icky icky icky!" and runs off. Every time he repeats, same thing occurs. Negative reinforcement at time of behavior.

Then you can try removing foil after a week or two.

Keep in mind this doesn't always work. Did the whole "soda can full of coins" thing with my cat and my TP; worked for a few weeks and then the chomping began once more. I finally just asked the landlord if they could relocate the toilet paper out of his reach; turned out to be no problem whatsoever.
posted by WCityMike at 8:44 AM on March 26, 2008

I recently read this article about click training cats using positive reinforcement only. (The working observation being that cats really don't seem to respond well to punishment, and if anything, enjoy the excitement.)

We started doing what the article suggests about a week ago (simulating "the hunt", clicking and rewarding for "not bad" behavior), and our bad cat is already vastly improving. In fact, after 3 days of the click training, when he would escape outside, all we would have to do was lclick once and he would come running back. (Good kitty. Give treat.) Those little jerks are as Pavlovian as dogs...
posted by hybridvigor at 9:34 AM on March 26, 2008

Dang. Here is the real link: BAM!
posted by hybridvigor at 9:35 AM on March 26, 2008 [1 favorite]

Yesterday, my cat fell off of a table, and in order to arrest her fall, reached out and grabbed my dupioni drapes on her way down. She tore a 2 ft hole in the drapes and got her claws tangled up and I had to help her get them unhooked. Later, she stood on top of the club chair in the living room so that she could stand on her tippy toes and reach a tiny new plant on a high shelf, which she grabbed, pulled down into the chair and proceeded to play with (house cats are very sensitive to new things in their environment). In the afternoon, she spent 10 minutes slapping the water in her water bowl making a huge puddle on the tile in our mud room. After dinner, I found her asleep on the only nice blanket I own, a Missoni throw that was a gift from a family member - one that I keep in an out of the way spot where she has expressed no interest in sleeping on for the last 2 years.

My other cat projectile vomited kibble into the cuff of my pants as I was typing on my computer.

I have had cats for my entire life, my dad is a veterinarian, and I know how to set my house up to keep the cats from destroying things I care about, and yet, they still find new, ingenious ways to menace everything we own.

Oh well, at least they are fuzzy.
posted by chuke at 9:47 AM on March 26, 2008

One thought: cats evidently realllllly dislike aluminum foil. For a few weeks, put aluminum foil on the area nearest to the subject vases.

Except mine, who seem to think foil is a toy. They will rip bits off and chase it. No, I don't understand. Except they're cats.

I hope you find a solution that works. Tanis is nine, going on ten, and he still knocks everything off my dresser in the morning if I don't wake up fast enough to feed him. He knows it works, the bastard. I've stopped putting breakable stuff there.
posted by sandraregina at 4:09 PM on March 26, 2008

Lots of great suggestions here. Thank you! He, too, loves tinfoil. We heard about the tinfoil idea when he was a wee kitten and covered places where he wasn't supposed to go. All he did was hop up there, rip pieces off and proceed to bat them around the room - invariably knocking stuff over.

After the messy day yesterday, cat was wonderfully relaxed and touchy/feely/loungy. Maybe saying he was sorry? Doubtful. Another thing has come to mind. Recently, cat has been lounging about in our sun room (which is made up of large glass walls). The other day, a tabi cat walked by, sat in front of our cat, and they had a staring contest for about 10 minutes before the other cat ran off. I think our cat, being an indoor cat, may have some unresolved jealousy issues about the outside. We've taken him on a couple walks (attempts, really) but he always seems to be in a worse mood when we get back. He's just gonna have to come to grips with the fact that he's a house kitty.
posted by RobertFrost at 7:58 PM on March 26, 2008

Telling your cat "NO" in a firm, deep & calm voice while gently/firmly pushing them away from the vase whenever they get near it to train them. It will take some time and most importantly, consistence. But they will eventually become trained. In the meantime, secure your valuables down with "earthquake putty" from your local home improvement store to prevent any further accidents while you are training. It's removable when you need to refill or move your vases. The perks of cat ownership outweigh these nuisances if you are consistent in training your cat to learn the meaning of no! Good Luck!
posted by kellycarter at 6:55 PM on April 14, 2008