Prevent me from purchasing leopard print, before it's too late!

September 10, 2007 10:23 PM

I think i'm turning into a cougar, and I need help.

This past weekend, my few single girl friends and I went out to a club, got way too drunk, did things like 'get my armed signed by dude from a bachelor party', and ended up in my friends' condo at 3 oclock in the morning with four 23 year old 'dudes'. (They didn't leave till 11 the next morning.)

That fact that we're old enough to own real estate (30 years old) and yet ended up with drunken not-hot-or-smart-enough-to-justify-it 23 year olds (for not the first time) tells me that we are doing something very wrong with our lives; this has stopped seeming 'fun and crazy' and has started to feel kinda sad, especially now that we realise that we are probably actually being perceived as "older women" by the guys we pick up/get picked up by.

So, here's the question: to all the 30 year old single women out there, who aren't 'meeting men' through friends (because almost all your friends, and their friends, are married), and who don't want to stop going out, prevent the cougarness??? I can't beleive it, but i need lifestyle advice! I'm fairly attractive/well dressed/well educated and I did not see this happening to me.... Turning into a cougar is supposed to happen to other, more pathetic people.

posted by anonymous to human relations (47 comments total)

Listen, being a cougar serves its purpose. Don't think of it as something terrible. 20-something guys don't want commitment and you don't want to stop going out. You both can meet the other's needs. Be a cougar and own it!
P.S. I don't think a 7 year age difference makes you a cougar. Maybe if you double it then you'd qualify.
posted by HotPatatta at 10:34 PM on September 10, 2007

I always thought a 'cougar' was a woman in her late 30's at least.. if not 40's...

Anyway, I'm not a woman, but I imagine you're just going through a phase of enjoying the ability to pick up guys you find attractive, act like you're still 18, etc etc... happens to both genders...

As long as you're being safe (i.e. not putting yourself at high risk/danger), enjoy it.

If you're really not enjoying it, you'll quit. Unless you're getting yourself so drunk that you're just acting stupid because your friends are leading the way -- in which case the solution is to not drink so damn much.
posted by twiggy at 10:38 PM on September 10, 2007

Why don't you just date guys around your own age or older? I don't really get why you're asking this. Maybe you need a change of drinking locations? And in my mid 20's I'm just a couple of years from being a cougar? Is it just me, or is the acceptable window for women to be attractive and sexual narrowing rapidly?
posted by crabintheocean at 10:50 PM on September 10, 2007 [1 favorite]

I've always thought that cougar-ness was less about age and more about behaviour. Being 30 doesn't make me a cougar, i'm way too young to 'automatically' be in that category, if any age does that at all. It's that I (and my friends) seem to have fallen into a pattern that is the typically 'defining characteristic' of cougar-dom. And crabintheocean, five years ago I never in a million years would have guessed how soon it would be that it would be damn difficult to find anyone to date my own age. I appear to be in this window where most decent guys my age a married, and very few of them are divorced yet. Pathetically, i imagine the eligible pool of attractive single guys will expand in several years, but i'm not there yet.

People my age are at home having dinner parties with their spouses. Or, at least, the people I know are doing that. That's the problem.
posted by Kololo at 11:00 PM on September 10, 2007

Enjoy yourself and forget the guilt.

Of course, you probably are seeking a deeper relationship with someone more compatible and these dalliances with kids are just a waste of time in that endeavor. As long as it remains fun I wouldn't stop. However, you might want to put more effort into finding more long term compatible suitors. Bars and the like, especially teeny bopper bars, are not the proper venue. Gyms, supermarkets and coffee shops plus community groups etc. are more fertile hunting grounds for people your own age.
posted by caddis at 11:03 PM on September 10, 2007

You could always move to Vancouver, where the men outnumber the women and it's tough for bright, funny, single, healthy guys in their 30s to find stupid, boring, broken, ugly women to date.
posted by solid-one-love at 11:12 PM on September 10, 2007

Sorry, just realized that could be read the wrong way: I am not implying that you are stupid, boring, etc. What I mean is that it's hard for men to find women here who even approach those standards, which means that you, being bright, witty, and so forth, should easily be able to find someone awesome. They'll fight over you.
posted by solid-one-love at 11:13 PM on September 10, 2007

The problem is the alcohol.
posted by nanojath at 11:15 PM on September 10, 2007 [6 favorites]

Well, I'm in university and am surrounded by plenty of 28, 28, 29, 30, 31+ year olds who are all enjoying the madness just as much as I am--and they don't seem out of place at all and I think nothing of it.

not-hot-or-smart-enough-to-justify-it 23 year olds
This however makes it seem like you're not doing this because it's fun to you, you're going through the motions to create some kind of lifestyle that just isn't cutting it for you anymore. So figure out why, and what you'd rather be doing instead. Then do it.

However, if I'm wrong, and this is totally fun, well babe, no worries. You are NOT too old to enjoy yourself.
posted by stray at 11:23 PM on September 10, 2007

nanojath might be right.
posted by caddis at 11:35 PM on September 10, 2007 [1 favorite]

I'm in my late 30's, single, and have mostly dated guys younger than me. I tend to think of cougars as divorced women in their 40's who are returning to the dating scene (but that's just my perspective).

I certainly did a lot of stuff like this, enjoyed it for a while and ended up feeling the way you do. I made some big lifestyle changes - like nanojath says, removing alcohol from of the equation was a big change (I'm a 3 drink wonder now) plus not doing the bar thing any more. The cool guys are out there, just not in a bar.
posted by poissonrouge at 12:59 AM on September 11, 2007

It's been postulated that the supply/demand curve in the singles world shifts to men's favor around thirty. (It was in women's favor up until that point) because younger women are expected to date older men, but not vice versa. As Miss Joplin observed, ya gotta try just a little bit harder. 23 year old guys know this all too well because they've been trying to sell their wares in a hostile market since puberty.

Maybe you're just tired of the scenes you're hanging out in. Why not try meeting people outside of bars/clubs?
posted by Skwirl at 1:05 AM on September 11, 2007

In fact, skwirl's point is illustrated thusly.

posted by disillusioned at 1:41 AM on September 11, 2007 [2 favorites]

I have to agree with what others have said, you dont sound like a 'cougar' to me. (My understanding of the cougar scenario has always been 20-something guys hitting on 40+ rebound women) (I'm 34, but never had a cougar experience myself. )

The only part of your story that jumps out at me is--> "not-hot-or-smart-enough-to-justify-it 23 year olds"

Looks to me like you have 2 choices: 1.) quit feeling guilty and bang some young-dudes if thats what you really want... OR... 2.) find a better scene where you can find guys who are mature and closer to your age (and hey, more experienced, so the sex will probably be miles better)

There's no reason why you and your girl-friends cant go out every once in a while and let loose and have a good time. Just be honest with yourself about what you want, and go out and find it. Life is short, ......be beautiful and find what makes you truly happy/satisfied.
posted by jmnugent at 2:08 AM on September 11, 2007

I am a 30 year old woman myself and I know how you feel. I feel old and dirty when I'm checking out the younger guys, but hey- my grandmother was 5 years older than my grandfather, and they were married till death. I take it as a compliment when a younger guy still finds me attracive being the 'old' lady that I am (although they usually think I'm their age at first because I still look 21). Don't worry about it. Don't let your pespective of what 'society' deems 'acceptable-for-your-age' ruin what could be a fun time. Don't however still drink like your 21, then it becomes a problem. Still go out and drink, but know when to slow down (you may still end up with several guys at your house till the wee hours, but at least you won't have to feel badly the next day because you would know that you remained in control of your faculties). My closest friends are married too and the lack of available good men our age does seem slightly depressing- but don't fret- enjoy yourself!
posted by MayNicholas at 4:58 AM on September 11, 2007

Your definitely not in Cougar range yet so I don't think you need to worry about that. The rule, Age divided by 2 plus 7 is perfect. If your 30, that means you can go as young as 22.

By the way, if you want to hang out my contact info is in my profile and I'm on the verge of owning real estate ;)
posted by crewshell at 5:22 AM on September 11, 2007

The term "cougar," to me, implies a certain degree of patheticness (is that a word?) ... it conjures up an image of a woman trying to pass herself off as cute and hot, when she has noticeably begun her physical decline into middle age. If you're thirty, I don't think you're old enough for your conduct to be pathetic in that way.

By the way, is "cougar" a new coinage? I had never heard the term until about three months ago, when it seemed that it was suddenly on everyone's lips.
posted by jayder at 5:39 AM on September 11, 2007

Could it be that you are pouring all sorts of concerns and hopes into your party nights? Going out with your friends and partying is a separate activity from trying meet a nice person to be with. You can do both at once, and when you are younger, it makes some sense. Maybe not so much now...instead, why not separate these activities a bit and take the pressure off. Then when you end up doing those silly (but sometimes fun) activities, they won't have the same scary meaning to you.

Toronto has tons of places to meet men in their 30s -- art openings, film parties, book launches, bars with music that is cool but not so loud that you can't have a conversation, sport clubs and groups, language lessons, online dating sites, volunteer organizations, cafes, lots more I can't think of right now.
posted by girlpublisher at 5:44 AM on September 11, 2007

Yeah - seek men to date elsewhere, not on party night. Dance lessons, casual sports leagues, etc. What is your ideal age-appropriate guy doing with his free time? Probably not hanging out at university bars except occasionally. Go find him/them where they are.
posted by LobsterMitten at 6:22 AM on September 11, 2007

(I have never heard that 'cougar' usage before, must be 100% americanism; I thought I was getting an altogether more mystical question).

Something about your post suggests to me that a tiny bit of even your sober brain thinks it quite cool that four 23-year-olds want to spend the night with you.

Maybe it is. Correction: you're damn right it is! But for the most part, like Miss Clavell in the middle of the night, you have a feeling that something ain't right.

I think the advice here is good (to paraphrase: (1) don't worry about it, (2) drink less in similar situations, (3) hang out with a more 'sophisticated' [aka wrinkly] crowd).

But. Welcome to the 30+ world, in which desire is increasingly out of synch with social norms, life's 'requirements' and your own sense of dignity.

Maybe look at Jenny Joseph's Warning. "But maybe I ought to practice a little now?" I cleave to my own male version of this, or try to.
posted by londongeezer at 6:29 AM on September 11, 2007

I'm an almost 30 guy that is mature enough to be cleaning up his finances from his early-20s indiscretions and preparing to own real estate. I stopped going to clubs entirely when I turned 24. They're lame, noisy, painful, and expensive.

Cougars are named so because they're on the prowl for tasty young meat. Maybe, Kololo, if you're feeling like that ain't the right thing to do... ... you should stop doing it?

And as for why you can't find any guys worth dating -- Six months ago, I was courting a 30 year old woman. We took our dogs out to the bluebonnets to take pictures, we spent a bunch of time at restaurants, we got each other gifts ... and then she started toying with me because she had been single for five years and couldn't make up her goddamned mind. So I dumped her, went through two hot college girls in quick succession, and finally met my current 21 year old girlfriend at the dog park.

There's plenty of single 30something guys. (or almost 30somethings.) Out of my circle of friends in the city I live in, 5 of 10 guys in my age bracket are single and have great jobs of many different sorts with a university. You're just not looking in the right places... stop going to clubs!
posted by SpecialK at 6:57 AM on September 11, 2007

By the way, is "cougar" a new coinage? I had never heard the term until about three months ago, when it seemed that it was suddenly on everyone's lips.

Nah, it's been around for twenty or thirty years at least. My father, who's in his sixties, uses it.
posted by SpecialK at 6:59 AM on September 11, 2007

One drunken night with some hot young flesh does not a cougar make. Repeated stalking of sweet young things (accompanied by leering, too much cleavage and hair tossing) will lead you down that path. See, the very term "cougar" implies that you are hunting prey. If you're not actively hunting these fellows ... you're not a cougar, you're just enjoying a fun, drinky night with hunky younger men.

As to how to find guys your own age to settle down with, I can't help you. I married a guy 7 years younger than me. Hm, go figure.
posted by macadamiaranch at 7:04 AM on September 11, 2007

The problem is the alcohol.

I second this, at least as a partial answer to your question. You could take all the cougar stuff out, and your question would basically be "I got drunk and did something stupid that I'm ashamed of. How can I get drunk and not do stupid things?"

Answer: you can't. Alcohol is a drug. It affects the brain. The brain is what you use to make decisions with. If you drug your decision-maker, you'll make bad decisions.

I'm not telling you to stay sober. I'm just suggesting that you face the fact that when you get drunk, stuff like this tends to happen. Think of drinking like skydiving. Do it if you accept the rink. Or stay on the ground.

There IS an age factor. At 30, you probably can't hold your liqueur as-well-as you could when you were 20. Even if you can, the older you get, the less attractive it is for you to be drunk. A 20-something drink is a kid partying; A 30-something drunk seems (to me) like someone trying to be a 20-something drunk. And -- be careful -- a 40-something drunk is just sad.


I appear to be in this window where most decent guys my age a married, and very few of them are divorced yet.

That's just silly. There are tons of single guys your age. Where are you looking for them? In bars? Try elsewhere. Try museums, concerts (classical? jazz?), supermarkets, charity events, classes, etc.
posted by grumblebee at 7:29 AM on September 11, 2007 [1 favorite]

The weird thing about your story to me is not that you hooked up with a younger man, its that you and your friends all hooked up with younger men in the same place. Is that normal? Not, "Go home with me," but "Let's all go home with my friend"?
posted by croutonsupafreak at 7:35 AM on September 11, 2007 [1 favorite]

Clubs that people go to for their bachelor parties are a great place to go to get drunk and do stupid things. They are not a great place to go to meet mature, relationship-minded people, of any age. If you are looking for the latter, stop looking for them in that type of club. There's your "lifestyle advice."
posted by decathecting at 7:50 AM on September 11, 2007

Thirty is no cougar age. You got 10 years to go.
posted by Ironmouth at 8:06 AM on September 11, 2007

Forget about all these "you are a cougar / you are not" technicalities; if you feel like your behavior is undesirable, then it is.

Honestly, I think it would help enormously to move to a decent-sized city. In San Francisco, Boston, and NYC (3 cities where I've spent a decent amount of time lately), it's not at all odd to be 30-ish and single - you should have no problem meeting single guys your age.

If you already do live in a medium to large city and you still can't meet any single guys over 23, you're not trying hard enough. Expand your friend circle or (gulp) sign up for online dating.

As for this one instance, don't read too much into it; take it as a sign that you need to change some things in your life, make those changes, and stop worrying about it. I'm sure the 4 "dudes" already have.
posted by rkent at 8:29 AM on September 11, 2007

You are well within the age/2+7 with dating a 23 year old. Now if you were 40 then it would be outside of the range but the generally accepted age range is anyone older than half your age plus seven years is acceptable.

For more into see this:

http://www.xkcd.com/314/
posted by koolkat at 8:36 AM on September 11, 2007

30 is not a cougar anyways, 30 is a puma, as a mid 20's single male I can say that puma's are highly coveted.
posted by BobbyDigital at 8:45 AM on September 11, 2007 [2 favorites]

Ditto the "change the venue" suggestions. Clubs are invariably crowded with the kind of people who will end up featured on hotchickswithdouchebags.com, and they're proud of it. And drunk. Did I mention obnoxious yet?

Find someplace where there's more of a diverse crowd. My friends and I have had good luck with the (admittedly probably one of a kind) Bohemian Hall which even in the height of friday-night-drunkenness has a far more sober crowd than any bar or club I've ever been to. Age ranges are far more broad, though admittedly it's generally filled with pre-existing groups that are hard to break into. Some pubs have a similar character.
posted by Skorgu at 8:52 AM on September 11, 2007

I'm with those who think that booze is mostly the problem here. you're 30; you're not desperate; don't believe anybody who would have you think that because they don't know what they're talking about
posted by matteo at 9:03 AM on September 11, 2007 [1 favorite]

crabintheocean, regarding your comment "Is it just me, or is the acceptable window for women to be attractive and sexual narrowing rapidly?" - I think it's just the opposite. I think we're seeing more and more older actresses in "sexy" roles, for example. Most men I know consider Helen Mirren very attractive. Michelle Pfeiffer and Jessica Lange are both in their 50's, I believe, and I think they're pretty darn hot.

I'm married, but when I go out with friends almost all of the men who hit on me are much younger. I certainly don't pursue them, so I guess I'm not technically a cougar. Maybe it's a sea change.
posted by Evangeline at 10:21 AM on September 11, 2007

What are you and your friends trying to prove? It sounds like you have some kind of competition going with them to prove you are all still young and fun and attractive, and the way you all try to "prove" this is by going out and getting drunk and picking up younger guys.

I agree, the booze is half the problem. The other half is the mindset. Make conscious choices about what you want, don't just follow the crowd. You're right, that IS sad.
posted by misha at 10:59 AM on September 11, 2007 [1 favorite]

Stop going to clubs where people are 7 years your junior? I'm sure there are places in the city where people in their late 20s early 30s hang out. I can think of plenty in Toronto, and they are not called "The Devil's Martini". If you want to get drinks, maybe go to lounges like Blowfish, Foundation Room, Laide, Ultra, etc. (Of course, I find the crowd at those places can be a bit obnoxious.) The Drake caters to an older crowd if you avoid the weekend.

All of that said, i'm not sure night clubs are the best places to meet people.
posted by chunking express at 11:50 AM on September 11, 2007

There are probably a bunch of places in Little Italy that cater to an older and less drunk and crazy crowd too. (Teatro comes to mind.)
posted by chunking express at 11:53 AM on September 11, 2007

Quickly weighing in on the definition of cougar. It's someone approximately 40 or higher trying to look 20. Bleached blonde hair, because even if you're a natural blonde, by the time you hit 40, you're dirty blonde at best, and more likely medium brown. Dressed to out skank the girls who don't find it as hard to fight gravity. Quite often possesing skin ressembling fine corrintian leather. Alternately possessing orange skin, and leaving a residue on whatever your skin touches from all of the spray on tan.

As for the rest, I'm Nthing that the scene might be the problem. If you're looking for solid relationship material, clubs are where you're unlikely to find it. People go to clubs to hook up. Sometimes it become permanent. Sometimes not. Guys who go to clubs are probably attracted to pretty new things. If you're young and pretty enough, you might "hang on" to a guy long enough for him to fall in love. When you're a one night stand ... well, they're likely not worth keeping.

I was going to suggest some places to meet stable single 30 somethings, but hit a blank. But then I was never a clubber, and all of my girlfriends (with the exception of one yahoo personal (from back in the day when it was free)) hit on me rather than vice versa. If you're looking for some stats of places I've been hit on; walking on the sidewalk (no, not a paid-for-date), library, grocery store, housemate/boarder.

Maybe just start keeping your eyes open, and if you notice anyone who captures your fancy, check for a ring, and if there isn't one, try and start talking with him to flesh if you have further interest and if so ask him out. You don't have to be in an approved pickup joint to pick someone up.
posted by nobeagle at 12:13 PM on September 11, 2007

I have never heard that 'cougar' usage before, must be 100% americanism

I think of it as being a Canadianism.
posted by LobsterMitten at 12:13 PM on September 11, 2007

I guess there's something I'm missing here. Your opinion of your behavior seems to rest entirely on other people's perception of it. I have no idea what owning real estate has to do with the age of your sexual partner. I'm 32 and I rent. What age group should I be banging?

Figure out what it is you want apart from others' expectations. Is it lots of partying and banging hot young things? Great, you're apparently doing that already. Is it a committed relationship with someone closer to your age? Great, stop banging the boys and take others' advice here in meeting men outside of the bar scene. I don't know why either option would be viewed as "pathetic."
posted by desjardins at 12:40 PM on September 11, 2007

I had a big answer I'd been writing up for this, but on preview, I'll just agree with desjardins.
posted by the jam at 1:04 PM on September 11, 2007

Stupid? Check.
Ugly? Double check.
Broken? I'm broke so check.

I am moving to Vancouver for the universal healthcare and better dating odds.

I say go to the bar, get tail, have fun. Who cares about their age? Only care about their age if you find them immature or it would land you in jail.
posted by Foam Pants at 1:48 PM on September 11, 2007

Yeah...Cougar is a term I've heard around Vancouver for years.
posted by GeneticFreek at 4:03 PM on September 11, 2007

Yeesh, there is clearly not one definition of the term. Can we agree on that? (Incidentally its origin is generally thought to be Canadian.)

Anyway, I'm 32 and it's crazy hard to meet men my age who aren't in long-term relationships. I've joked at this point I have to wait until they're all divorced, and I'm only half kidding.

My feeling is, embrace it. Know you are not going to find a relationship that way. A 23-year-old is not in the same place in life as I. But you can have fun (and sex) all you want and there is no reason to feel ashamed of that. Just don't confuse it for relationship potential because trust me, you will be disappointed that they can't live up to those expectations.

AND, check out the band Stink Mitt to get pumped on cougar pride.
posted by loiseau at 7:39 PM on September 11, 2007

You could always move to Vancouver, where the men outnumber the women and it's tough for bright, funny, single, healthy guys in their 30s to find stupid, boring, broken, ugly women to date.
posted by solid-one-love

I just have to respond to this on behalf of myself and all my single girlfriends in Vancouver.

I moved away from Vancouver 1 1/2 years ago, but I lived there for over 10 years and can say that it's a very difficult city to meet guys when you are over 30. It is known as a city where the woman has to make the first move. This is because the men out number the women by far, and because of this, the women are expected to do all the work. I've travelled and lived in different cities and have never encountered any thing like this anywhere else.

Oh, and I am University educated, not broken or bitter, and attractive.
posted by cleo at 9:23 PM on September 11, 2007

Interesting perspective, Cleo.
posted by solid-one-love at 9:46 PM on September 11, 2007

I'll be different: I read most of this thread and thought to myself that most of the men responding were younger (and thinking, wow, I'd like to sleep with a hot older woman...) or women of an equivalent age (and thinking 'you go girl!')

If you're always chasing after the 23 year olds? Yeah, you're having some cougar tendencies. If you also do so with guys who are 30ish? Then not so much. If it's always men 7+ years younger, you're chasing youth, trying to justify your looks+feelings. The alcohol mix in there, might be showing your group's need to validate themselves (and alcohol is freeing your behavior to do so.)
posted by filmgeek at 5:20 AM on September 12, 2007 [1 favorite]

1. Cougar, to me, implies desperate. You don't sound desperate. As for how to meet people your own age -- nthing the change the venue, try online, try asking your friends about their friends, join a club, etc.

2. BobbyDigital just made my day.
posted by echo0720 at 10:29 AM on September 12, 2007