What to do about my marriage?
August 23, 2007 4:55 PM Subscribe
Today is my 16th wedding anniversary. In a week I turn 40, so I’m doing a little reflection on my life. I have two kids, one in the final year of high school, the other with two years to go. I’m halfway through a degree – I’ll be done in 18 months, and I work part time. I haven’t had sex in 4 years (and very intermittently in the previous 5) because my husband has absolutely no interest. What should I do?
The doctor has told him he needs to lose weight (at least 60 pounds) in order to fix his libido. The doctor has told him that before. He has recently quit his gym membership in favour of playing World of Warcraft.
My husband often professes his deep love for me, and says there is nothing he would change about me. It seems to make my requests for him to be more financially responsible seem a little petty. He doesn’t drink, smoke, gamble or watch porn, but he does impulse-buy, usually quite small amounts (junk food), but they add up when the family income is low. He is willing to perform any chore I ask him to, but doesn’t think to do it (mow the lawn, fix the fence) unless I ask. He procrastinates. The responsibility for all decision making rests with me. He says it’s because he has a history of making poor decisions.
We have talked about all these issues, many times over the years. I have been patient and loving and suggested solutions and supported him. He often starts out well, but then forgets to continue. Sometimes he decides to fix an issue with an all or nothing solution, like a radical diet and exercise plan that’s hard to maintain, or refusing to carry any money at all. I’m sympathetic, but I’m tired.
I know the obvious answer is to DTMFA (MF doesn’t quite fit) but here’s the thing. I am not gorgeous, and I never was, but age is certainly not helping. (It’s possible my circumstances have influenced my self image negatively.) I’ve browsed the dating forums and the guys I might be interested in, would not be interested in me. So is it better to be alone, and sexless, than to be with a irresponsible but loving companion and sexless?
For those of you wishing to suggest therapy, can you suggest how it might actually help? We have no problem communicating, he is very aware of the issues I have and sympathetic to them, but he seems unable to follow through with change. For those suggesting depression, I would not think this is an issue. He says (and I believe him) that he is very happy with the way life is. He looks forward to when the kids are older and we have more freedom. He is content in his work in the best job he’s ever had. For those suggesting I get a bit on the side, thank you, but no. I’ve thought about it and I would not be happy with cheating, it wouldn’t be fair to anyone.
Lastly, if the only solution is to leave, I suspect I'll hold off until the youngest finishes high school in about 2.5 years - so tips for staying might be useful too.
The doctor has told him he needs to lose weight (at least 60 pounds) in order to fix his libido. The doctor has told him that before. He has recently quit his gym membership in favour of playing World of Warcraft.
My husband often professes his deep love for me, and says there is nothing he would change about me. It seems to make my requests for him to be more financially responsible seem a little petty. He doesn’t drink, smoke, gamble or watch porn, but he does impulse-buy, usually quite small amounts (junk food), but they add up when the family income is low. He is willing to perform any chore I ask him to, but doesn’t think to do it (mow the lawn, fix the fence) unless I ask. He procrastinates. The responsibility for all decision making rests with me. He says it’s because he has a history of making poor decisions.
We have talked about all these issues, many times over the years. I have been patient and loving and suggested solutions and supported him. He often starts out well, but then forgets to continue. Sometimes he decides to fix an issue with an all or nothing solution, like a radical diet and exercise plan that’s hard to maintain, or refusing to carry any money at all. I’m sympathetic, but I’m tired.
I know the obvious answer is to DTMFA (MF doesn’t quite fit) but here’s the thing. I am not gorgeous, and I never was, but age is certainly not helping. (It’s possible my circumstances have influenced my self image negatively.) I’ve browsed the dating forums and the guys I might be interested in, would not be interested in me. So is it better to be alone, and sexless, than to be with a irresponsible but loving companion and sexless?
For those of you wishing to suggest therapy, can you suggest how it might actually help? We have no problem communicating, he is very aware of the issues I have and sympathetic to them, but he seems unable to follow through with change. For those suggesting depression, I would not think this is an issue. He says (and I believe him) that he is very happy with the way life is. He looks forward to when the kids are older and we have more freedom. He is content in his work in the best job he’s ever had. For those suggesting I get a bit on the side, thank you, but no. I’ve thought about it and I would not be happy with cheating, it wouldn’t be fair to anyone.
Lastly, if the only solution is to leave, I suspect I'll hold off until the youngest finishes high school in about 2.5 years - so tips for staying might be useful too.
I’ve browsed the dating forums and the guys I might be interested in, would not be interested in me.
Do you know this for sure? You said yourself that you could (do?) have a negative self-image...
Frankly I think this is too big a question to really be adequately answered on a site like this. But there's no excuse to stay in a loveless relationship because of what being alone might be like.
There's one very important piece of information you haven't told us: Do you love this man?
(I understand that answering that is not necessarily easy, nor is there necessarily a definite "yes" or "no")
Overall I'd just like to extend some empathy. You're obviously in a difficult situation, my thoughts are with ya.
posted by Ted Maul at 5:16 PM on August 23, 2007
Do you know this for sure? You said yourself that you could (do?) have a negative self-image...
Frankly I think this is too big a question to really be adequately answered on a site like this. But there's no excuse to stay in a loveless relationship because of what being alone might be like.
There's one very important piece of information you haven't told us: Do you love this man?
(I understand that answering that is not necessarily easy, nor is there necessarily a definite "yes" or "no")
Overall I'd just like to extend some empathy. You're obviously in a difficult situation, my thoughts are with ya.
posted by Ted Maul at 5:16 PM on August 23, 2007
Sounds like you are happy with your life except for the lack of sex? If your husband's weight is truly the only thing standing in the way of a better life, have you tried working out with him? It'd pretty much make you the babysitter of his weight loss, but it'd be a win-win in terms of your health and his libido. And fitness helps everyone's self esteem, so you might feel better about your chances on the dating sites even if things don't work out.
posted by emyd at 5:17 PM on August 23, 2007
posted by emyd at 5:17 PM on August 23, 2007
therapy would presumably help him work through the not-following-through part. i mean, he's (in)actively depriving you of sex. which is a part of marriage. so why? alternatively, why doesn't he think you deserve to have an active sex life? (or are you finding the one thing he won't do and focusing totally on that? sex is important to you, right?)
since you're already half shopping for another guy, you need to go for a plan: either you two go to therapy/he goes to therapy alone, or he allows for a discussion wherein your sexual needs get met. in other words: figure out a way to remain monogamous, or he gives permission for you to find satisfaction elsewhere. the third choice is an amicable divorce.
as a forty-year old myself, i can say that anyone who's making the slightest bit of effort to take care of themselves can generally find a lover. quality of said lover as a human being is a crapshoot, however.
posted by RedEmma at 5:17 PM on August 23, 2007
since you're already half shopping for another guy, you need to go for a plan: either you two go to therapy/he goes to therapy alone, or he allows for a discussion wherein your sexual needs get met. in other words: figure out a way to remain monogamous, or he gives permission for you to find satisfaction elsewhere. the third choice is an amicable divorce.
as a forty-year old myself, i can say that anyone who's making the slightest bit of effort to take care of themselves can generally find a lover. quality of said lover as a human being is a crapshoot, however.
posted by RedEmma at 5:17 PM on August 23, 2007
Stop giving him the freedom to be a big old baby. There's no consequence for him. What's in it for him to be good to you? I hate ultimatums, but I can't imagine if he gets a life where you take care of everything and he doesn't have to do anything in return that anything's really going to change.
You say he's loving, but loving you is about seeing what you need, hearing what you want, understanding that you're serious, and doing something, anything, to try to find a solution. Love is action, not just a word you use to say goodnight or goodbye on the phone.
So either he's not hearing you or understanding the severity of the situation (which therapy might help with), he's got some severe personal issues (that individual therapy might help with), you're enabling him and maybe even creating this by taking control and you don't see it (which therapy might help with) or he's using you and professing his deep love is his way of getting you off his back.
In a lot of those scenarios, he needs to take the initiative in some way. You do everything else for him. You can't make him want to make you happy, too. But you have to make sure he knows how serious you are.
What do you do in the meantime? Maybe working on your self esteem. Not with the goal of getting laid, but with the goal of being a person beyond the support system for two teens and one grownup kid. What kind of person do you wish you were? You need some sense of yourself outside of your role as wife whether it's volunteering, hanging out with girlfriends, joining a book club, taking a class, exercising, anything.
I know it's not easy and I wish I had a specific awesome answer rather than vague advice. Good luck.
posted by Gucky at 5:19 PM on August 23, 2007 [6 favorites]
You say he's loving, but loving you is about seeing what you need, hearing what you want, understanding that you're serious, and doing something, anything, to try to find a solution. Love is action, not just a word you use to say goodnight or goodbye on the phone.
So either he's not hearing you or understanding the severity of the situation (which therapy might help with), he's got some severe personal issues (that individual therapy might help with), you're enabling him and maybe even creating this by taking control and you don't see it (which therapy might help with) or he's using you and professing his deep love is his way of getting you off his back.
In a lot of those scenarios, he needs to take the initiative in some way. You do everything else for him. You can't make him want to make you happy, too. But you have to make sure he knows how serious you are.
What do you do in the meantime? Maybe working on your self esteem. Not with the goal of getting laid, but with the goal of being a person beyond the support system for two teens and one grownup kid. What kind of person do you wish you were? You need some sense of yourself outside of your role as wife whether it's volunteering, hanging out with girlfriends, joining a book club, taking a class, exercising, anything.
I know it's not easy and I wish I had a specific awesome answer rather than vague advice. Good luck.
posted by Gucky at 5:19 PM on August 23, 2007 [6 favorites]
breaking up with a man isn't like moving: you don't need to have a new place lined up before you leave the old one. if you decide to leave, don't worry about being alone. worry about being happy. those aren't mutually exclusive. invest in a good vibrator and try to go out with a good girlfriend once a week, with or without her partner.
a second love may or may not come, but it's not like things with your current partner are really any better than being alone and celibate, is it?
as for the man:
he's clearly made his choices. it may be that he takes you for granted--have you told him that you are considering leaving him? men, bless their souls, can be incredibly oblivious sometimes, even when it's spelled out for them. sometimes you have to scare the crap out of them in order to get their attention.
he may have some depression. couples counseling certainly could help.
good luck! whatever you do, do something, because the current arrangement isn't working, and you deserve better. alone and happy is far better than attached and frustrated.
posted by thinkingwoman at 5:29 PM on August 23, 2007
a second love may or may not come, but it's not like things with your current partner are really any better than being alone and celibate, is it?
as for the man:
he's clearly made his choices. it may be that he takes you for granted--have you told him that you are considering leaving him? men, bless their souls, can be incredibly oblivious sometimes, even when it's spelled out for them. sometimes you have to scare the crap out of them in order to get their attention.
he may have some depression. couples counseling certainly could help.
good luck! whatever you do, do something, because the current arrangement isn't working, and you deserve better. alone and happy is far better than attached and frustrated.
posted by thinkingwoman at 5:29 PM on August 23, 2007
His lack of libido does not prevent him from "taking care of you" if you get my meaning. He has a moral obligation to do so.
You do need couples counseling. This may not even be about sex, ultimately. It's even possible he is depressed (yes, you can be depressed without being sad. ) Even if he isn't, I can guess there are issues that perhaps neither one of you are aware of but that a good counselor could get to the bottom off.
Don't give up just yet. You have provided a stable home for your children, for one thing, and they still need that at least for now. And as unsatified (and not just sexually) as you are right now, believe me there are worse situations and worse men out there. I am not minimizing what you are dealing with but the grass ain't always green, much less greener, on the other side.
Please find a good counselor-I'd recommend one with family systems training.
posted by konolia at 5:34 PM on August 23, 2007
You do need couples counseling. This may not even be about sex, ultimately. It's even possible he is depressed (yes, you can be depressed without being sad. ) Even if he isn't, I can guess there are issues that perhaps neither one of you are aware of but that a good counselor could get to the bottom off.
Don't give up just yet. You have provided a stable home for your children, for one thing, and they still need that at least for now. And as unsatified (and not just sexually) as you are right now, believe me there are worse situations and worse men out there. I am not minimizing what you are dealing with but the grass ain't always green, much less greener, on the other side.
Please find a good counselor-I'd recommend one with family systems training.
posted by konolia at 5:34 PM on August 23, 2007
Well, that sounds very difficult. I'm sorry this is going on.
First, I would like point out that while it's probably quite difficult to feel sexy when your spouse doesn't appear interested in having sex with you, you are probably a little off-base in your own perceived lack of attractiveness. You're not even 40, lady! You're hardly in some kind of sexless deathbed life phase, here.
I think that women are often made to feel like it's not very ladylike to have a sex drive, particularly if their sex drive outstrips that of their male partner. So you may be getting some messages from various places that, really, if the marriage you're in is basically happy, surely the sex part is something you could get over if you tried?
I shake my fist at that argument. Even if the immediate act is something you could get over, there are some things that come with married sex that are really important: the feeling of being desired; the feeling of desiring; physical closeness; the "Only you and I do this with each other" kind of intimacy.
While it's possible, I think, to find all of those elements in other places, I think it requires the couple to feel really committed to the process of working on it, and to really go into it with a great willingness to try all kinds of things-- and to talk about sexual things a LOT, which is often uncomfortable, particularly for a couple that's not having any sex at all.
For instance, your husband might have to say things like: Okay, so I have some erectile issues, what are some other things we could do? (There are lots. LOTS. of other things.)
Or, if this goes far beyond erectile issues to genuinely profound sexual disinterest: Well, my interest in sex is simply very low. Is that really true? Are there ways I can spark my interest? Are there ways I can, erm, warm myself up? If not, what are steps - medical, nutritional, exercise-related - we can take together to increase my libido? Am I willing to commit to those steps? Is this something I'm interested in pursuing? If not, WHY not? Why am I rejecting something that's so important to my spouse?
Or you might have to say things like: Listen, one of the main things I love about sex is feeling like this man wants me so much he can't breathe. I MISS THAT A LOT. The lack of it makes me feel dumpy and unsexy and frankly unwomanly. How can we help me get back to a place where I feel desirable and foxy? Are you willing to work with me on this? If not, why not?
(I know the "Get therapy!" thing is annoying, but the above are all things a therapist can be really helpful with. And that shall be my final mention of the matter.)
If you love your husband and are both willing, you can explore the above. You may find some things you are able to agree on. Those things may or may not be enough for you. If they're not, or if the two of you just can't reach an agreement, I think it's better to consider divorce than to consider staying in this situation for the rest of your life! It's saddening to think of people staying in unfulfilling, sexless relationships because they don't think they deserve or can get anything better.
You do! And you can! For instance, somewhere out there is a man your age who is in an unfulfilling, sexless marriage and is wondering the EXACT SAME STUFF. I think this is a much more common problem than people are willing to let on.
I am not advocating divorce. But I also see no particular benefit in staying in a marriage that makes you hurt. You deserve happiness, partnership, and a spouse who occasionally likes to feel you up while you're cooking dinner.
Good luck.
posted by thehmsbeagle at 5:44 PM on August 23, 2007 [4 favorites]
First, I would like point out that while it's probably quite difficult to feel sexy when your spouse doesn't appear interested in having sex with you, you are probably a little off-base in your own perceived lack of attractiveness. You're not even 40, lady! You're hardly in some kind of sexless deathbed life phase, here.
I think that women are often made to feel like it's not very ladylike to have a sex drive, particularly if their sex drive outstrips that of their male partner. So you may be getting some messages from various places that, really, if the marriage you're in is basically happy, surely the sex part is something you could get over if you tried?
I shake my fist at that argument. Even if the immediate act is something you could get over, there are some things that come with married sex that are really important: the feeling of being desired; the feeling of desiring; physical closeness; the "Only you and I do this with each other" kind of intimacy.
While it's possible, I think, to find all of those elements in other places, I think it requires the couple to feel really committed to the process of working on it, and to really go into it with a great willingness to try all kinds of things-- and to talk about sexual things a LOT, which is often uncomfortable, particularly for a couple that's not having any sex at all.
For instance, your husband might have to say things like: Okay, so I have some erectile issues, what are some other things we could do? (There are lots. LOTS. of other things.)
Or, if this goes far beyond erectile issues to genuinely profound sexual disinterest: Well, my interest in sex is simply very low. Is that really true? Are there ways I can spark my interest? Are there ways I can, erm, warm myself up? If not, what are steps - medical, nutritional, exercise-related - we can take together to increase my libido? Am I willing to commit to those steps? Is this something I'm interested in pursuing? If not, WHY not? Why am I rejecting something that's so important to my spouse?
Or you might have to say things like: Listen, one of the main things I love about sex is feeling like this man wants me so much he can't breathe. I MISS THAT A LOT. The lack of it makes me feel dumpy and unsexy and frankly unwomanly. How can we help me get back to a place where I feel desirable and foxy? Are you willing to work with me on this? If not, why not?
(I know the "Get therapy!" thing is annoying, but the above are all things a therapist can be really helpful with. And that shall be my final mention of the matter.)
If you love your husband and are both willing, you can explore the above. You may find some things you are able to agree on. Those things may or may not be enough for you. If they're not, or if the two of you just can't reach an agreement, I think it's better to consider divorce than to consider staying in this situation for the rest of your life! It's saddening to think of people staying in unfulfilling, sexless relationships because they don't think they deserve or can get anything better.
You do! And you can! For instance, somewhere out there is a man your age who is in an unfulfilling, sexless marriage and is wondering the EXACT SAME STUFF. I think this is a much more common problem than people are willing to let on.
I am not advocating divorce. But I also see no particular benefit in staying in a marriage that makes you hurt. You deserve happiness, partnership, and a spouse who occasionally likes to feel you up while you're cooking dinner.
Good luck.
posted by thehmsbeagle at 5:44 PM on August 23, 2007 [4 favorites]
men, bless their souls, can be incredibly oblivious sometimes, even when it's spelled out for them. sometimes you have to scare the crap out of them in order to get their attention.
i was going to post something longer, but it amounts to that. also, in my experience, women always underestimate how good they look.
posted by andrew cooke at 5:49 PM on August 23, 2007 [1 favorite]
i was going to post something longer, but it amounts to that. also, in my experience, women always underestimate how good they look.
posted by andrew cooke at 5:49 PM on August 23, 2007 [1 favorite]
Once upon a time not too very long ago, I was in a somewhat similar situation. I, too, had planned to wait until the youngest child finished high school. As I waited for my 8 year plan to materialize, I began developing my own set of friends outside of my spouse's circle. I began taking as many steps as possible to clean up any credit glitches his less than stellar habits had caused. I took up hobbies that filled my time and provided pleasure. I became involved in community activities. Then with barely two years left in my plan, something happened that was irrevocable -- and I left with my children in tow.
Regrets? You bet. All about one thing. And that one thing is that I didn't have the clarity to have left years ago.
Staying does nothing but prolong the misery - even if it is very civilized - for all involved.
I wish you only the very best.
posted by peace_love_hope at 6:00 PM on August 23, 2007
Regrets? You bet. All about one thing. And that one thing is that I didn't have the clarity to have left years ago.
Staying does nothing but prolong the misery - even if it is very civilized - for all involved.
I wish you only the very best.
posted by peace_love_hope at 6:00 PM on August 23, 2007
For those suggesting I get a bit on the side, thank you, but no. I’ve thought about it and I would not be happy with cheating, it wouldn’t be fair to anyone.
I think what isn't fair is that the majority of the answers here are going to be "remain sexless while you continue to plead with your husband to change," or "DTMFA."
Obligatory lobby for considering something between the broad, broad spectrum of "cheating" and "sexless":
Have you thought about an extramarital relationship that isn't cheating? Most people define cheating as the infidelity that comes from having sex on the side and lying about it in order to hide it. A lot of people believe that cheating is what happens in spirit, not in the flesh. In other words, if you go out intending to betray, cuckold, lie, deceive and wound, it's cheating... but if your husband helps you load your overnight bag in the trunk and waves as you drive away, it's not. Not all sex outside the marriage has to be cheating.
Here's a wacky what-if:
What if you said to your husband,
"I love you, and while I'm happy enough with my life not to destroy our marriage, I'm not happy enough in our marriage to tolerate the current situation any longer. I respect that your libido is in a different place than mine, but I no longer feel it's fair that your refusal to make positive changes to correct that discrepancy should continue to mandate my unhappiness. I would like for us to discuss my pursuing a secondary relationship, one that is strictly physical, and is not intended to replace you in our marriage, but which would allow me to fulfill the physical needs that have been ignored for almost four years now... 10 if you want to split hairs. Together, we can set the ground rules for my secondary relationship, and I'm only willing to pursue this with your full blessing... but today's the day we make a change so that we are both receiving the amount of sexual satisfaction that we desire, instead of just you."
There are a million permutations out there between a celibate marriage and a naked pile of swingers in a hot tub. Maybe the form you choose would allow you to find short-term friends with benefits via "the dating sites" (which aren't just all for chaste, proper dating, m'dear). Imagine whirlwind affairs that make you feel desirable, sexy, and passionate... satisfying your urges while allowing you to remain a loving supportive wife and mother.
But, I happen to believe (especially with children in the picture) that it's unconscionable to consider divorce before considering other alternatives. Just because those alternatives don't fit into a traditional Western ideal of the perfect nuclear family doesn't mean they aren't out there. You don't have to worry about anyone's morals but your very own. Read The Ethical Slut for a primer on a different way of thinking about a responsible, healthy open relationship.
Your marriage is what you and your husband define it to be. Right it's sexless because he's calling the shots and you are allowing it. There are other options. Please consider those before you consider splitting up your family.
posted by Side Pony at 6:02 PM on August 23, 2007 [4 favorites]
I think what isn't fair is that the majority of the answers here are going to be "remain sexless while you continue to plead with your husband to change," or "DTMFA."
Obligatory lobby for considering something between the broad, broad spectrum of "cheating" and "sexless":
Have you thought about an extramarital relationship that isn't cheating? Most people define cheating as the infidelity that comes from having sex on the side and lying about it in order to hide it. A lot of people believe that cheating is what happens in spirit, not in the flesh. In other words, if you go out intending to betray, cuckold, lie, deceive and wound, it's cheating... but if your husband helps you load your overnight bag in the trunk and waves as you drive away, it's not. Not all sex outside the marriage has to be cheating.
Here's a wacky what-if:
What if you said to your husband,
"I love you, and while I'm happy enough with my life not to destroy our marriage, I'm not happy enough in our marriage to tolerate the current situation any longer. I respect that your libido is in a different place than mine, but I no longer feel it's fair that your refusal to make positive changes to correct that discrepancy should continue to mandate my unhappiness. I would like for us to discuss my pursuing a secondary relationship, one that is strictly physical, and is not intended to replace you in our marriage, but which would allow me to fulfill the physical needs that have been ignored for almost four years now... 10 if you want to split hairs. Together, we can set the ground rules for my secondary relationship, and I'm only willing to pursue this with your full blessing... but today's the day we make a change so that we are both receiving the amount of sexual satisfaction that we desire, instead of just you."
There are a million permutations out there between a celibate marriage and a naked pile of swingers in a hot tub. Maybe the form you choose would allow you to find short-term friends with benefits via "the dating sites" (which aren't just all for chaste, proper dating, m'dear). Imagine whirlwind affairs that make you feel desirable, sexy, and passionate... satisfying your urges while allowing you to remain a loving supportive wife and mother.
But, I happen to believe (especially with children in the picture) that it's unconscionable to consider divorce before considering other alternatives. Just because those alternatives don't fit into a traditional Western ideal of the perfect nuclear family doesn't mean they aren't out there. You don't have to worry about anyone's morals but your very own. Read The Ethical Slut for a primer on a different way of thinking about a responsible, healthy open relationship.
Your marriage is what you and your husband define it to be. Right it's sexless because he's calling the shots and you are allowing it. There are other options. Please consider those before you consider splitting up your family.
posted by Side Pony at 6:02 PM on August 23, 2007 [4 favorites]
I typically don't answer these types of questions.....
I"m a guy, 59 years old. (for a frame of reference).
Your husband is being childish and immature, he knows his behavior has a negative impact on the relationship and is unwilling to change. Based on what you've told us, it is unlikely that he is going to change his behavior or make any effort to seek therapy or become a better partner (emotionally or sexually).
Accept that...
Now...what to do...
Be honest with him about what you expect in the relationship, and let him know what course of action you would take if he can not provide that. It sounds harsh, but if you speak the truth, then it is the reality of the situation and needs to be out in the open.
Give him the opportunity to make a decision, follow through, and accomplish what he sets out to do. If he decides not to, you have your answer, if he doesn't succeed, you have your answer, if he succeeds, you have your answer...
I agree with your inclination to wait until the youngest graduates.... you can survive until then...
be loving, be caring, and respect yourself through the process..
best wishes...
posted by HuronBob at 6:07 PM on August 23, 2007 [2 favorites]
I"m a guy, 59 years old. (for a frame of reference).
Your husband is being childish and immature, he knows his behavior has a negative impact on the relationship and is unwilling to change. Based on what you've told us, it is unlikely that he is going to change his behavior or make any effort to seek therapy or become a better partner (emotionally or sexually).
Accept that...
Now...what to do...
Be honest with him about what you expect in the relationship, and let him know what course of action you would take if he can not provide that. It sounds harsh, but if you speak the truth, then it is the reality of the situation and needs to be out in the open.
Give him the opportunity to make a decision, follow through, and accomplish what he sets out to do. If he decides not to, you have your answer, if he doesn't succeed, you have your answer, if he succeeds, you have your answer...
I agree with your inclination to wait until the youngest graduates.... you can survive until then...
be loving, be caring, and respect yourself through the process..
best wishes...
posted by HuronBob at 6:07 PM on August 23, 2007 [2 favorites]
The dude needs a scare. Eventually he'll get one in the form of a health crisis, but in the meantime he needs to know what his daily decisions are slowly making inevitable.
posted by hermitosis at 6:31 PM on August 23, 2007
posted by hermitosis at 6:31 PM on August 23, 2007
The responsibility for all decision making rests with me.
This is a common complaint by wives.
I haven’t had sex in 4 years (and very intermittently in the previous 5) because my husband has absolutely no interest.
This is huge. Once a month, every few months, that is odd, but not unheard of at all, but years on end? Your sexual relationship is broken, and with it most assuredly your romantic relationship. Couples can continue on through these times, and even recover, based upon their friendship and their common goal of the family. However, your situation is dire.
I recommend you fuck your husband, several times. Don't do it out of love or anything other than pure carnal desire if need be. Does that ignite any spark? Regardless, it might be fun.
It sounds seriously like he is suffering from depression. No man avoids sex with his wife for years on end unless he is either clinically depressed or getting it on the side. From your description my vote goes strongly to depression.
It looks bad, but if you want to save this relationship it might still be possible. You need to decide and if you decide save, you need to lay down the law to hubby, shape up or ship out.
I am not gorgeous, and I never was, but age is certainly not helping. (It’s possible my circumstances have influenced my self image negatively.) I’ve browsed the dating forums and the guys I might be interested in, would not be interested in me. So is it better to be alone, and sexless, than to be with a irresponsible but loving companion and sexless?
You underestimate yourself. There is not a woman too homely to get a date if she so desires. There are men out there who will want to date you, really.
posted by caddis at 6:37 PM on August 23, 2007
This is a common complaint by wives.
I haven’t had sex in 4 years (and very intermittently in the previous 5) because my husband has absolutely no interest.
This is huge. Once a month, every few months, that is odd, but not unheard of at all, but years on end? Your sexual relationship is broken, and with it most assuredly your romantic relationship. Couples can continue on through these times, and even recover, based upon their friendship and their common goal of the family. However, your situation is dire.
I recommend you fuck your husband, several times. Don't do it out of love or anything other than pure carnal desire if need be. Does that ignite any spark? Regardless, it might be fun.
It sounds seriously like he is suffering from depression. No man avoids sex with his wife for years on end unless he is either clinically depressed or getting it on the side. From your description my vote goes strongly to depression.
It looks bad, but if you want to save this relationship it might still be possible. You need to decide and if you decide save, you need to lay down the law to hubby, shape up or ship out.
I am not gorgeous, and I never was, but age is certainly not helping. (It’s possible my circumstances have influenced my self image negatively.) I’ve browsed the dating forums and the guys I might be interested in, would not be interested in me. So is it better to be alone, and sexless, than to be with a irresponsible but loving companion and sexless?
You underestimate yourself. There is not a woman too homely to get a date if she so desires. There are men out there who will want to date you, really.
posted by caddis at 6:37 PM on August 23, 2007
i have to disagree about waiting until your youngest flies from the nest...a lot of kids in my freshman class got "dear john, your dad and i have decided to divorce" letters from their parents. what those kids invariably read is, "now that we don't have to worry about you anymore, we can drop this sham of a marriage and get on with the childfree, partnerfree life we've been longing for..."
i think waiting until junior leaves is well-intentioned but perhaps masks some uncertainty you have. talk to your husband, and lay it out. set deadlines. agree to have sex once a week, or at least sexually gratify each other once a week. agree to kiss each other good morning, goodbye, hello, and good night. hold hands or cuddle during one 30-minute show you both like. by thanksgiving, try to make it to 8 or 12 counseling sessions. by christmas, you'll know whether you want to leave or go. by easter, do it.
your kids will get through it no matter what, but i think being able to be by their side at least for that first year of separation--if that's what you choose--will do them a lot of good.
posted by thinkingwoman at 7:08 PM on August 23, 2007 [1 favorite]
i think waiting until junior leaves is well-intentioned but perhaps masks some uncertainty you have. talk to your husband, and lay it out. set deadlines. agree to have sex once a week, or at least sexually gratify each other once a week. agree to kiss each other good morning, goodbye, hello, and good night. hold hands or cuddle during one 30-minute show you both like. by thanksgiving, try to make it to 8 or 12 counseling sessions. by christmas, you'll know whether you want to leave or go. by easter, do it.
your kids will get through it no matter what, but i think being able to be by their side at least for that first year of separation--if that's what you choose--will do them a lot of good.
posted by thinkingwoman at 7:08 PM on August 23, 2007 [1 favorite]
Anybody can find a date. No, seriously. I'd even go a little further and say that anybody can find someone to love and be with unless they have freakishly unreal expectations, and you don't sound like you do. In fact, you sound like you're a reasonable, decent person in a hard situation. I often feel like I suck more than the suckiest suckers, but experience has shown me that love just keeps happening.
I say that "anybody can find a date," but I think it's worth it to try to save your marriage. I think you start by telling him how dire it's gotten for you, and be explicit. "I've been looking at personals sites. I posted to Ask MeFi. I've been wondering whether I should just leave. I mean this seriously." Y'all need to go to therapy, which isn't just about getting y'all to communicate--it could help by having someone outside your marriage say "yo, you're enabling" or "yo why aren't you following through, don't you realize your wife is going to leave you?" You may need to give him deadlines. If he still doesn't step up, I say leave him, because, among other things, your kids don't need to have a role model who can't take care of himself.
Regardless of whatever you decide, you need to get a little more selfish. I know from hard experience how easy it is to be in a marriage like that and just put up with stuff that you shouldn't put up with. If he won't do chores without prompting, then you say "look, from now on? it's your responsibility to do x, y, and z. I'm going to take care of a, b, and c." Follow through with that, and don't remind him. If he's spending money poorly, then it's time to give him an allowance--he's making you act like Mommy, so take that power and use it to make things better for both of you. Either he protests, and grows up a little bit, or he just lets you, and hey, that way at least he's not spending money foolishly. The time for patience has passed; you are on the verge of leaving him. I think that through these actions, through being strong and asserting yourself, you shake things up. He might react in positive ways. Or he might get scared. Or you might realize just how much of yourself you've been leaving by the wayside while you've been trying to carry your marriage for both of you. In any case, it's worth doing.
I don't know, ymmv. I have just... been there, so I know how it feels to be married to someone whose basic fault is that he's acting lame and won't stop. I didn't have kids and I was a lot younger. I left, but I think that if I was 40ish and had kids I'd still be with him.
posted by hought20 at 7:11 PM on August 23, 2007
I say that "anybody can find a date," but I think it's worth it to try to save your marriage. I think you start by telling him how dire it's gotten for you, and be explicit. "I've been looking at personals sites. I posted to Ask MeFi. I've been wondering whether I should just leave. I mean this seriously." Y'all need to go to therapy, which isn't just about getting y'all to communicate--it could help by having someone outside your marriage say "yo, you're enabling" or "yo why aren't you following through, don't you realize your wife is going to leave you?" You may need to give him deadlines. If he still doesn't step up, I say leave him, because, among other things, your kids don't need to have a role model who can't take care of himself.
Regardless of whatever you decide, you need to get a little more selfish. I know from hard experience how easy it is to be in a marriage like that and just put up with stuff that you shouldn't put up with. If he won't do chores without prompting, then you say "look, from now on? it's your responsibility to do x, y, and z. I'm going to take care of a, b, and c." Follow through with that, and don't remind him. If he's spending money poorly, then it's time to give him an allowance--he's making you act like Mommy, so take that power and use it to make things better for both of you. Either he protests, and grows up a little bit, or he just lets you, and hey, that way at least he's not spending money foolishly. The time for patience has passed; you are on the verge of leaving him. I think that through these actions, through being strong and asserting yourself, you shake things up. He might react in positive ways. Or he might get scared. Or you might realize just how much of yourself you've been leaving by the wayside while you've been trying to carry your marriage for both of you. In any case, it's worth doing.
I don't know, ymmv. I have just... been there, so I know how it feels to be married to someone whose basic fault is that he's acting lame and won't stop. I didn't have kids and I was a lot younger. I left, but I think that if I was 40ish and had kids I'd still be with him.
posted by hought20 at 7:11 PM on August 23, 2007
Scares. Threats. Meh. The problem with most communications is this; You're frustrated, he's not. Metafilter response? DTMFA.
Realize that most people gravitate towards comfort. Most people don't communicate well (feel free to take some blame in your own marriage. This didn't happen overnight. You slipped up too.) In 'rehab' people set up support systems, checks and balances to get on the 'straight and narrow path.'
Yup, I'm on the therapy bus. But ask him if he thinks you two need it. As you go, decide now, if you were getting Mr. Stiffy 2x a week, if that would be enough.
Therapy isn't just about communication. I realize I have bad habits, therapy makes me more aware of them, and helps me focus and change them.
You say things failed when you talked to him before? Where is your (and his?) support system. Reinvigorating life into a marriage requires commitment. Better or worse. Libido or no libido. Commit to yourself, commit to him, both of you should commit to each other.
Life (and marriage) is often about sacrifice. You're ask him to change, he tries, does well, you think all is fixed...and he slides back into his behavior patternd (due to lack of support), You see it as him failing. You get frustrated (you feel you're always sacrificing.) Find some positive ways you can grow old together. You used to be interested in the same things. What happened between now and then? What have you (both) done to keep things working?
. He says it’s because he has a history of making poor decisions.
Possibly this is where you jump in and help him develop his skills more. If he's abdicating 'making decisions', you should feel free not to pay his warcraft bills.
I have been patient and loving and suggested solutions and supported him. He often starts out well, but then forgets to continue. Sometimes he decides to fix an issue with an all or nothing solution, like a radical diet and exercise plan that’s hard to maintain, or refusing to carry any money at all. I’m sympathetic, but I’m tired
Yup, you're tired. Get some rest. Get yourself a little happier. Ask him for help. Long term help. Get his involvement. Marriage is a partnership, and you should say you feel partnerless. Skip the quick fix diet stuff. Find a way for him lose weight. Get rid of soda, and a 1/2 hour walk, both of you every night. Together. Walk, talk and support each other.
If he doesn't handle money well...create a separate account, figure out how much 'impulse' money you (both!) get a month. Split that in half. Get him an account with it. Point out that each month, you'll put money in. If he blows it all in one place, that's his business. Your "group" family money is budgeted for other stuff.
You're not punishing him- that's not your job as his wife (and why would you want it to be!) His passivity pushes you into that behavior pattern (especially with kids.) Stop it.
If you pick up some of the slack, support him, find outside support (get him off WoW!), you'll be able to make a 'marital' change (and believe me, you should accept your part in this too! I don't mean for this to be so 'rough' - I totally think you're, likely, a warm person, in a tough place. ) Quit letting him excuse things, but you should also be his fan, and not punish him.
Quitting the marriage, to ignore the problem, is likely going to be just as rough as 'sticking' it out. You did/do love this guy, right? The whole online dating? Yeah - grass it greener on the other side.
So implement change - but be smart about it! Rediscover each other, and plan the change. Last, you're not an outsider to this, you're involved in it every day; quite a bit of it pushes your buttons. Therapy will help that too.
posted by filmgeek at 7:13 PM on August 23, 2007
Realize that most people gravitate towards comfort. Most people don't communicate well (feel free to take some blame in your own marriage. This didn't happen overnight. You slipped up too.) In 'rehab' people set up support systems, checks and balances to get on the 'straight and narrow path.'
Yup, I'm on the therapy bus. But ask him if he thinks you two need it. As you go, decide now, if you were getting Mr. Stiffy 2x a week, if that would be enough.
Therapy isn't just about communication. I realize I have bad habits, therapy makes me more aware of them, and helps me focus and change them.
You say things failed when you talked to him before? Where is your (and his?) support system. Reinvigorating life into a marriage requires commitment. Better or worse. Libido or no libido. Commit to yourself, commit to him, both of you should commit to each other.
Life (and marriage) is often about sacrifice. You're ask him to change, he tries, does well, you think all is fixed...and he slides back into his behavior patternd (due to lack of support), You see it as him failing. You get frustrated (you feel you're always sacrificing.) Find some positive ways you can grow old together. You used to be interested in the same things. What happened between now and then? What have you (both) done to keep things working?
. He says it’s because he has a history of making poor decisions.
Possibly this is where you jump in and help him develop his skills more. If he's abdicating 'making decisions', you should feel free not to pay his warcraft bills.
I have been patient and loving and suggested solutions and supported him. He often starts out well, but then forgets to continue. Sometimes he decides to fix an issue with an all or nothing solution, like a radical diet and exercise plan that’s hard to maintain, or refusing to carry any money at all. I’m sympathetic, but I’m tired
Yup, you're tired. Get some rest. Get yourself a little happier. Ask him for help. Long term help. Get his involvement. Marriage is a partnership, and you should say you feel partnerless. Skip the quick fix diet stuff. Find a way for him lose weight. Get rid of soda, and a 1/2 hour walk, both of you every night. Together. Walk, talk and support each other.
If he doesn't handle money well...create a separate account, figure out how much 'impulse' money you (both!) get a month. Split that in half. Get him an account with it. Point out that each month, you'll put money in. If he blows it all in one place, that's his business. Your "group" family money is budgeted for other stuff.
You're not punishing him- that's not your job as his wife (and why would you want it to be!) His passivity pushes you into that behavior pattern (especially with kids.) Stop it.
If you pick up some of the slack, support him, find outside support (get him off WoW!), you'll be able to make a 'marital' change (and believe me, you should accept your part in this too! I don't mean for this to be so 'rough' - I totally think you're, likely, a warm person, in a tough place. ) Quit letting him excuse things, but you should also be his fan, and not punish him.
Quitting the marriage, to ignore the problem, is likely going to be just as rough as 'sticking' it out. You did/do love this guy, right? The whole online dating? Yeah - grass it greener on the other side.
So implement change - but be smart about it! Rediscover each other, and plan the change. Last, you're not an outsider to this, you're involved in it every day; quite a bit of it pushes your buttons. Therapy will help that too.
posted by filmgeek at 7:13 PM on August 23, 2007
Oh, and also? I have a pretty hard time believing that 60 pounds overweight has THAT much of an effect on his libido. It's not his weight, and I think it's harmful to fixate on that unless it really bugs you to have an overweight husband.
posted by hought20 at 7:15 PM on August 23, 2007
posted by hought20 at 7:15 PM on August 23, 2007
What should I do?
You should say everything that said in this thread to him and you should add, at the end this ..."Honey, you're losing me. You've haven't lost me, but you are losing me. We need to fix this, but I can't do it alone. I have a timeframe in mind, 2.5 years, until I'm ready to throw in the towel, and that's just for our youngest kid's sake. I'm tired and lonely in this marriage and you are losing me. What are you going to do to help this marriage."
From there, I think you two need to seek counseling, perhaps separately, so he can become more active and stop hiding behind his weight and WoW. You need counseling to start seeing yourself as worthwhile.
So is it better to be alone, and sexless, than to be with a irresponsible but loving companion and sexless?
It's better to be alone and sexless. Being sexless with a loving companion just compounds the frustration. At least when you're alone and sexless you have some control over the situation as opposed to hobbling along with dead wheel that you just can't "fix".
Lastly, if the only solution is to leave, I suspect I'll hold off until the youngest finishes high school in about 2.5 years - so tips for staying might be useful too.
Staying together for the kids sake isn't always the best choice. Taking responsibility for your own happiness can be a better example for them.
In the short term, look into masturbation? You may already be doing, but if not, Good Vibrations can be a good source.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:18 PM on August 23, 2007 [1 favorite]
You should say everything that said in this thread to him and you should add, at the end this ..."Honey, you're losing me. You've haven't lost me, but you are losing me. We need to fix this, but I can't do it alone. I have a timeframe in mind, 2.5 years, until I'm ready to throw in the towel, and that's just for our youngest kid's sake. I'm tired and lonely in this marriage and you are losing me. What are you going to do to help this marriage."
From there, I think you two need to seek counseling, perhaps separately, so he can become more active and stop hiding behind his weight and WoW. You need counseling to start seeing yourself as worthwhile.
So is it better to be alone, and sexless, than to be with a irresponsible but loving companion and sexless?
It's better to be alone and sexless. Being sexless with a loving companion just compounds the frustration. At least when you're alone and sexless you have some control over the situation as opposed to hobbling along with dead wheel that you just can't "fix".
Lastly, if the only solution is to leave, I suspect I'll hold off until the youngest finishes high school in about 2.5 years - so tips for staying might be useful too.
Staying together for the kids sake isn't always the best choice. Taking responsibility for your own happiness can be a better example for them.
In the short term, look into masturbation? You may already be doing, but if not, Good Vibrations can be a good source.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:18 PM on August 23, 2007 [1 favorite]
You said that he'll mow the lawn if you tell him to. So, tell him to mow the lawn.
posted by willnot at 7:18 PM on August 23, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by willnot at 7:18 PM on August 23, 2007 [1 favorite]
Regarding female masturbation, several women were just asked and they heartily recommend the Hitachi Magic Wand.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:22 PM on August 23, 2007
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:22 PM on August 23, 2007
He has recently quit his gym membership in favour of playing World of Warcraft.
Coupled with the fondness for junk food, this is the scariest part of your posting. I've seen people transform themselves into sub-human levels of passivity with these stupid games. Eyes fixed on the screen, with their most strenuous physical activity the hand reaching into the bag of Fun Yuns, it ain't pretty. People become worthless human detritus as a result of those online games. Don't underestimate the damage these games can do.
Have you considered forcing him, as a condition of remaining married to him, to work out with a personal trainer? Yes, it's expensive, but isn't it worth it to preserve your marriage? It could do wonders for his physique, his self-esteem, not to mention his libido. You might be able to get a decent personal trainer for him, a couple of times a week, for ~$300 a month.
Just say to your husband, "Honey, meet Lars. Work out with him three times a week, or I am gone."
posted by jayder at 7:30 PM on August 23, 2007
Coupled with the fondness for junk food, this is the scariest part of your posting. I've seen people transform themselves into sub-human levels of passivity with these stupid games. Eyes fixed on the screen, with their most strenuous physical activity the hand reaching into the bag of Fun Yuns, it ain't pretty. People become worthless human detritus as a result of those online games. Don't underestimate the damage these games can do.
Have you considered forcing him, as a condition of remaining married to him, to work out with a personal trainer? Yes, it's expensive, but isn't it worth it to preserve your marriage? It could do wonders for his physique, his self-esteem, not to mention his libido. You might be able to get a decent personal trainer for him, a couple of times a week, for ~$300 a month.
Just say to your husband, "Honey, meet Lars. Work out with him three times a week, or I am gone."
posted by jayder at 7:30 PM on August 23, 2007
I have a pretty hard time believing that 60 pounds overweight has THAT much of an effect on his libido. It's not his weight, and I think it's harmful to fixate on that unless it really bugs you to have an overweight husband.
Yes, it is not about his obesity, yet it is about him. I don't know you, I don't know what you look like, but if you were my wife, you would be taking my tube tonight.
I still think you should jump his bones, fuck his brains out, blow job for breakfast (that is every guy's fantasy and oh so wonderful when it comes true as morning is the sexual peak of the day), massage when he comes home from work, get his mojo flowing babe. If you can not get sex out of him by asking, and he will not treat his obvious depression, then dump his sorry ass on the side of the road next to the dead raccoon and move on.
Your fear of not being loved is so common. This happened to me, and it has happended to many of my friends when relationships went sour, and then we went to a bar (or better the supermarket, but perhaps this works better for guys) and wonderful folk of the opposite sex wanted to talk to us, dance with us, date us, etc. etc. People will love you, and you can ditch that unloving hubbie if you need. I hope you pull him back into the fold, but if not good luck to you - my telephone number by the way is xxx-xxx-xxxx.
posted by caddis at 7:54 PM on August 23, 2007 [1 favorite]
Yes, it is not about his obesity, yet it is about him. I don't know you, I don't know what you look like, but if you were my wife, you would be taking my tube tonight.
I still think you should jump his bones, fuck his brains out, blow job for breakfast (that is every guy's fantasy and oh so wonderful when it comes true as morning is the sexual peak of the day), massage when he comes home from work, get his mojo flowing babe. If you can not get sex out of him by asking, and he will not treat his obvious depression, then dump his sorry ass on the side of the road next to the dead raccoon and move on.
Your fear of not being loved is so common. This happened to me, and it has happended to many of my friends when relationships went sour, and then we went to a bar (or better the supermarket, but perhaps this works better for guys) and wonderful folk of the opposite sex wanted to talk to us, dance with us, date us, etc. etc. People will love you, and you can ditch that unloving hubbie if you need. I hope you pull him back into the fold, but if not good luck to you - my telephone number by the way is xxx-xxx-xxxx.
posted by caddis at 7:54 PM on August 23, 2007 [1 favorite]
Some responses about the benefits of therapy: it could provide a relatively neutral place for you to express just how deeply these serious shortcomings in your relationship are impacting you (you claim to have great communication, well, your husband doesn't know that you are pondering dumping him to the tune of checking out dating sites, and anonymously asking bands of strangers what to do about it, now does he? He might look at the necessity of change a bit differently if he did. You might hear some surprising things from him in the context of a therapist as well. A therapist is great for providing accountability, which it sounds like he is in need of. Finally, if a therapist is any good, a significant part of their job is helping people figure out how to make changes they know they should make but can't figure out how to do on their own.
Maybe your husband deserves to be in on this decision you're wrestling with more than a bunch of people who's primary credential is that they're up too late flinging text into the ether. It will be a very hard conversation to tell him you are thinking about leaving him because of his irresponsibility and functional impotence, but if you're not willing to initiate that conversation then you are avoiding engaging the tough stuff that could save your marriage just as much as he is.
posted by nanojath at 8:57 PM on August 23, 2007 [1 favorite]
Maybe your husband deserves to be in on this decision you're wrestling with more than a bunch of people who's primary credential is that they're up too late flinging text into the ether. It will be a very hard conversation to tell him you are thinking about leaving him because of his irresponsibility and functional impotence, but if you're not willing to initiate that conversation then you are avoiding engaging the tough stuff that could save your marriage just as much as he is.
posted by nanojath at 8:57 PM on August 23, 2007 [1 favorite]
It sounds as if you do not love this man and probably never did. If my math is correct, you got married because you had kids, not because you were in love and then had kids. He has no desire for you regardless of the excuses he makes. You are willing to dump him in 2.5 years. Dpn't waste your time or money on anything other than yourself, your kids, and your divorce lawyer.
Your relationship is like brother and sister, not husband and wife. Meh.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 9:27 PM on August 23, 2007
Your relationship is like brother and sister, not husband and wife. Meh.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 9:27 PM on August 23, 2007
You have a lot of good responses here, I hope mine is also helpful. My husband's libido is often lower than mine so when I "want some" I've learned I just have to make it happen myself. I'll explain...
For years I wouldn't make the first move, I thought it was wrong for women to do that, but I eventually realised that if I wasn't going to make the first move then no-one was. Now, if I want sex, I don't wait for my husband to detect that I'm in the mood and do something about it, I make sure he knows exactly what's on my mind and 99% of the time this results in precisely what I was after ;)
I'll give you some practical examples - I find first thing in the morning, particularly on a weekend when you're already snuggled up in bed together, is a great time to make your first 'first move'. If I'm in the mood I just start to kiss my husband's neck, nibble his ears, put my hands... you get the picture! He wakes up to this kind of attention, sleepy and warm with no thought on his mind except what's immediately in front of him. It works a charm and he LOVES it.
Another example - know what your sexual triggers are and use them. For me, if I want to have sex on a particular night, I'll book a place for us at our favorite restaurant, I'll dress in something pretty when I get home, touch up my makeup, drink wine with dinner, and make my intentions very clear with obvious flirting and sometimes some pretty blunt suggestions ;) Men see subtleties in a different way to women, to bridge this communication gap don't be afraid to speak bluntly.
I would also recommend doing a google search for "how to change a sexless marriage" or something like that, there are a ton of good books on the topic. But overall I recommend you simply try making the first move and allow for some time for sex to become a habit in your marriage again.
All the very best!!
posted by katala at 10:18 PM on August 23, 2007
For years I wouldn't make the first move, I thought it was wrong for women to do that, but I eventually realised that if I wasn't going to make the first move then no-one was. Now, if I want sex, I don't wait for my husband to detect that I'm in the mood and do something about it, I make sure he knows exactly what's on my mind and 99% of the time this results in precisely what I was after ;)
I'll give you some practical examples - I find first thing in the morning, particularly on a weekend when you're already snuggled up in bed together, is a great time to make your first 'first move'. If I'm in the mood I just start to kiss my husband's neck, nibble his ears, put my hands... you get the picture! He wakes up to this kind of attention, sleepy and warm with no thought on his mind except what's immediately in front of him. It works a charm and he LOVES it.
Another example - know what your sexual triggers are and use them. For me, if I want to have sex on a particular night, I'll book a place for us at our favorite restaurant, I'll dress in something pretty when I get home, touch up my makeup, drink wine with dinner, and make my intentions very clear with obvious flirting and sometimes some pretty blunt suggestions ;) Men see subtleties in a different way to women, to bridge this communication gap don't be afraid to speak bluntly.
I would also recommend doing a google search for "how to change a sexless marriage" or something like that, there are a ton of good books on the topic. But overall I recommend you simply try making the first move and allow for some time for sex to become a habit in your marriage again.
All the very best!!
posted by katala at 10:18 PM on August 23, 2007
It sounds like he really doesn't understand the seriousness of the situation. Make sure he understands where things are going.
It's easy to get caught-up in things (even WoW) and not realize your failings may be hurting your partner to the degree they'd give up on the relationship.
If he still refuses to try, there's not much you can do besides move on.
posted by EmptyK at 11:18 PM on August 23, 2007
It's easy to get caught-up in things (even WoW) and not realize your failings may be hurting your partner to the degree they'd give up on the relationship.
If he still refuses to try, there's not much you can do besides move on.
posted by EmptyK at 11:18 PM on August 23, 2007
He's not going to change, but you are probably best off leaving him only if you'd be happier alone than with him. If that is the case, move on and hopefully you'll be pleasantly surprised.
posted by BrotherCaine at 11:22 PM on August 23, 2007
posted by BrotherCaine at 11:22 PM on August 23, 2007
This has to be affecting your self-image...you almost have to be giving up self-respect for this to have happened for so long (speaking as someone who has been in a stagnant relationship).
Create written agreements with written consequences with weekly meetings to discuss. (See book "Creating Optimism").
"Lastly, if the only solution is to leave, I suspect I'll hold off until the youngest finishes high school in about 2.5 years - so tips for staying might be useful too."
Don't teach your kid the lesson to not take care of their own life by remaining in a shitty relationship.
Also, as for finding others...you just gotta try.
posted by Furious Fitness at 8:45 AM on August 24, 2007
Create written agreements with written consequences with weekly meetings to discuss. (See book "Creating Optimism").
"Lastly, if the only solution is to leave, I suspect I'll hold off until the youngest finishes high school in about 2.5 years - so tips for staying might be useful too."
Don't teach your kid the lesson to not take care of their own life by remaining in a shitty relationship.
Also, as for finding others...you just gotta try.
posted by Furious Fitness at 8:45 AM on August 24, 2007
I dont get everyone saying that you should leave him. If you two are compatible emotionally, then honestly the best thing you can do for your marriage is to go and get some ass on the side. If he no longer has a sex drive but you two still love each other then honestly cheating is probably the best course of action for you. If you are still unsatisfied after that then move on, but try this first at least. Whether you want to be honest with him about it is up to you.
posted by BobbyDigital at 8:52 AM on August 24, 2007
posted by BobbyDigital at 8:52 AM on August 24, 2007
wow.
1. you DON'T know who might be out there for you! Try, just try match.com
There is a LOT of fun waiting for you. Get yer hair done, smile for the picture, but check some of these sites...
2. If you let your husband continue in this vein, you are cheating BOTH of you out of a satisfying life. World of Warcraft?!?! I got a divorce due to the game...Ages of War? something like that. My wife preferred that game, hours and hours and days of it, to being with me. At some point, you've got to live.
You both need to talk to someone, together and on your own.
3. Ultimately, you've got to set a deadline: when are you going to start living the one life you have the way you know it should be lived? Give him 3 months and watch the choices he makes. You, at the same time, should be living apart from him and formatting a new way to live.
posted by tristanshout at 12:48 PM on August 24, 2007
1. you DON'T know who might be out there for you! Try, just try match.com
There is a LOT of fun waiting for you. Get yer hair done, smile for the picture, but check some of these sites...
2. If you let your husband continue in this vein, you are cheating BOTH of you out of a satisfying life. World of Warcraft?!?! I got a divorce due to the game...Ages of War? something like that. My wife preferred that game, hours and hours and days of it, to being with me. At some point, you've got to live.
You both need to talk to someone, together and on your own.
3. Ultimately, you've got to set a deadline: when are you going to start living the one life you have the way you know it should be lived? Give him 3 months and watch the choices he makes. You, at the same time, should be living apart from him and formatting a new way to live.
posted by tristanshout at 12:48 PM on August 24, 2007
I'm with SidePony on this one. "How do I get my husband to fuck me when he doesn't want to?" is just going to end up along the lines of smacking your head into the nearest wall.
I highly recommend reading Dan Savage's take on this.
http://chemistry.typepad.com/the_great_mate_debate/2007/08/the-long-andor-.html
http://chemistry.typepad.com/the_great_mate_debate/2007/08/black-and-white.html
http://chemistry.typepad.com/the_great_mate_debate/2007/08/fade-to-gray.html
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:54 PM on August 24, 2007
I highly recommend reading Dan Savage's take on this.
http://chemistry.typepad.com/the_great_mate_debate/2007/08/the-long-andor-.html
http://chemistry.typepad.com/the_great_mate_debate/2007/08/black-and-white.html
http://chemistry.typepad.com/the_great_mate_debate/2007/08/fade-to-gray.html
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:54 PM on August 24, 2007
My husband often professes his deep love for me, and says there is nothing he would change about me. ... He says (and I believe him) that he is very happy with the way life is. He looks forward to when the kids are older and we have more freedom. He is content in his work in the best job he’s ever had.
This is the problem. He's happy, so he sees no reason to change. Let's face it, if he were single, he'd have to put some real effort into making himself dating material, and he'd not have a chance in hell of catching a hard working, intelligent, responsible, and affectionate woman like you.
If he loved you as much as you professed, then he would want you to be happy, and would at least be making an effort to meet you halfway on at least some of your concerns.
I was married to this guy. I told him he was losing me. Maybe he didn't believe me or maybe the changes weren't worth it. If he had given me just a little bit of attention, perhaps 20 minutes a day, it would have been enough, and I would never have left. When I think of that now, I am so glad he never did, because now I'm with someone who is my partner in every way rather than someone I had to take care of, who treated sex as a chore, and who would rather play video games than face life.
(It’s possible my circumstances have influenced my self image negatively.)
It's certain they have. Being passively rejected every day for four years is hell on your self esteem.
So is it better to be alone, and sexless, than to be with a irresponsible but loving companion and sexless?
Much better. Ten thousand times better. And what happens if you meet someone you completely connect with and you're still married?
For those of you wishing to suggest therapy, can you suggest how it might actually help? We have no problem communicating, he is very aware of the issues I have and sympathetic to them, but he seems unable to follow through with change.
Because he doesn't want to change. He's wants you to stop being unhappy because it's making friction in his otherwise perfect life, not because your unhappiness is painful to him.
Lastly, if the only solution is to leave, I suspect I'll hold off until the youngest finishes high school in about 2.5 years - so tips for staying might be useful too.
Masturbate a lot. Get your credit in order. Make plans for where you will live and what you will do. Try and prepare your kids. And keep reminding yourself that you deserve better than you are getting from the person who is supposed to be your life partner.
posted by happyturtle at 3:03 PM on August 25, 2007 [1 favorite]
This is the problem. He's happy, so he sees no reason to change. Let's face it, if he were single, he'd have to put some real effort into making himself dating material, and he'd not have a chance in hell of catching a hard working, intelligent, responsible, and affectionate woman like you.
If he loved you as much as you professed, then he would want you to be happy, and would at least be making an effort to meet you halfway on at least some of your concerns.
I was married to this guy. I told him he was losing me. Maybe he didn't believe me or maybe the changes weren't worth it. If he had given me just a little bit of attention, perhaps 20 minutes a day, it would have been enough, and I would never have left. When I think of that now, I am so glad he never did, because now I'm with someone who is my partner in every way rather than someone I had to take care of, who treated sex as a chore, and who would rather play video games than face life.
(It’s possible my circumstances have influenced my self image negatively.)
It's certain they have. Being passively rejected every day for four years is hell on your self esteem.
So is it better to be alone, and sexless, than to be with a irresponsible but loving companion and sexless?
Much better. Ten thousand times better. And what happens if you meet someone you completely connect with and you're still married?
For those of you wishing to suggest therapy, can you suggest how it might actually help? We have no problem communicating, he is very aware of the issues I have and sympathetic to them, but he seems unable to follow through with change.
Because he doesn't want to change. He's wants you to stop being unhappy because it's making friction in his otherwise perfect life, not because your unhappiness is painful to him.
Lastly, if the only solution is to leave, I suspect I'll hold off until the youngest finishes high school in about 2.5 years - so tips for staying might be useful too.
Masturbate a lot. Get your credit in order. Make plans for where you will live and what you will do. Try and prepare your kids. And keep reminding yourself that you deserve better than you are getting from the person who is supposed to be your life partner.
posted by happyturtle at 3:03 PM on August 25, 2007 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
It doesn't sound like your husband is sympathetic to your worries at all, or he would be actually doing something about them. Being aware of them and being sympathetic are two different things.
posted by nakedsushi at 5:02 PM on August 23, 2007