Older Woman? Too old or just right?

December 26, 2006 2:17 PM

Older Woman. I'm 21 and she is 25. We went to high school together and I was a freshman when she graduated. Is the difference in age still as big of a factor?

Ok, feeling like a waste of time question here- so sorry it's not straightforward-advice-ready.

We were moderately good friends in HS, well more of acquaintances, but we spoke regularly. It was a very small catholic high school (I graduated with ~38 kids) and so the opportunity for interaction with upperclassmen was high. I switched from public school and knew no one so I became friends with older guys on the football team because I was a starter and by association made friends with many older upperclassmen. Anyway fast forward 4 years and a few off and on interactions and you've caught up.

I'm still in college and so is she- she went for a year then went to a community college for a few years and now is back in school at another university (not mine)- and I am in a 5 year program. She has a year left and I have a year and a half left. Part of my program involves working for a large corporation in our hometown and she babysits in the downtown area so we run into each other frequently. I never had the nerve to ask her to lunch properly because I thought she viewed me as a young pseudo-friend that she knew from high school, so we'd always just chat in passing.

We are both phenomenally sarcastic and it's a riot to have a conversation with her.

This past thanksgiving break I was in town and at a local bar with some friends (so happens to be owned by a mutual friend and the father of the children she babysits for, irrelevant mostly) and I was bombarded by about 50 people from around my graduating year that i ran around with during hs. So I was a bit tired of having the same convo over and over again so I dropped down to another area of the bar which just so happened to be where she was hanging out for the same reason. So we chat it up, as much as you really can at a loud bar, and have some laughs. I casually mention grabbing lunch when she comes back into town or something, she's all for it. Cue drunk friend/awkardness introducing me to her older friend she was there with and end of that interaction.

So a couple weeks go by and I am checking something on facebook, yes facebook, and yes i know it's lame- but everyone has it.... yea whatev. Anyway- her name pops up on one of my friend's walls so I check it out and add her. Thought it kinda odd that she had it, but that's not really fair for me to say. So i leave a comment and then I check back later and see her screen name so I add that, and sure enough she's on. I im her and she knew who i was with out me saying... so that means she had my screen name from high school which i thought unlikely or she added it, either way i can't see that being a bad thing. (Wow reading over this if feel like a 7th grader talking about screen names and facebook...)

So we talk on aim, and we talk a lot. She lets me know when she's heading into town and I leave her my phone number to call me when she wants to go, because I'm available pretty much whenever. So she does, and we go- we've gone 3 or 4 times now and all of them have left me late returning to my job- not a big deal but odd because the conversation was that good. I love chatting, but I rarely feel like I'm connecting with people because I'm in a different mindset than most people my age and most people regard me as more mature (and always have...)

So we've talked about dating histories somewhat in passing, i'd met her last one when I was working before and know the details of how that didn't work out. She knows some of mine. I've been single for 2 years now with the exception of a few little flings here and there, but have felt open to the idea of dating again for awhile now- just been way too busy to meet people.

Anyway- My question basically boils down to A) Would she feel like she was being judged for dating down? B) Would that ever change? C) How do I approach crossing the friend barrier?

As info, she doesn't drink or do anything like that- we've talked about the reasons and I admire her for it, I on the other hand could probably be considered a functioning alcoholic (aka college student) and do enjoy drinking in moderation, but frequently. I'm not the sloppy drunk, and I really don't change at all when I drink- I just get a little more lively and I've never had any problems with doing stupid things or being irresponsible, in fact i'm always the responsible one... so I don't think that would be a problem. We're separated at school by ~2 1/2 hours and our mothers worked together back in the day.

Oh and I have no idea if she would read this- if so I'm certainly never going to stop hearing about it... regardless of outcome. So if you've got experience with cougars as we call them (older women) please share.

Now that I've said the read disclaimer- I'll also add she is not my type per say... not that I truly have a type because I think it's an unnecessary filter... but she is a moderate redhead with freckles and looks similar to the chick on love actually that is a porn star or whatever acting that's for and i typically go for the smaller tan skin dark hair thing.

yea that was long, sorry.

posted by eleongonzales to human relations (38 comments total)

A) No.
B) No.
C) Others will no doubt give you a longer answer, or you can find similar questions already on AskMe.
posted by Partial Law at 2:24 PM on December 26, 2006

Dude, you are overthinking this by about 10 miles. Make a move, see what happens. That's really all it takes.

And, um, "cougars?" I'd drop that one from my dating lexicon if I were you.
posted by M.C. Lo-Carb! at 2:25 PM on December 26, 2006

Previously.
Previously.
Previously.

But, you know, whatev. No, the age gap does not matter.
posted by Terminal Verbosity at 2:27 PM on December 26, 2006

I've been dating a woman who is 6 years older for a while. Older women are the bomb. All the maturity, experience, independence that young girls do not -or only very rarely- have. And if she's taken care of herself, then older = full bloomed beauty. Plus, at your age, she can get cheaper rental car rates. There is no down side to this.

As for crossing the friend barrier: she's probably been waiting for you to make a move for a long time. What the fuck are you waiting for?
posted by sarcasman at 2:33 PM on December 26, 2006 [1 favorite]

For what it's worth, the age thing isn't much of a factor, if you ask me. I started dating my fiancee when she was almost 21 and I was almost 25; it hasn't been bad on me (I can't even imagine thinking that four little years mean "dating down," and if anybody mentioned it, I'd probably laugh) and it's been fine for her. In fact, the issue has never seriously come up in the three years we've been together. We're getting married next June.

Sounds like you're relatively mature. Go for it. As for how, well, shit, that's never easy, but it's relatively straightforward: ask her out.
posted by koeselitz at 2:33 PM on December 26, 2006

Don't be such a dithering sissy and get her pumped!
posted by the cuban at 2:34 PM on December 26, 2006

That's the same age difference with my brother and his wife (she's four years older). Granted, they were both a little older when they got together, but it has worked out well for them, married 20+ years and all that. The older the two of you get, the less significant the 4 year age difference will be.
posted by Doohickie at 2:34 PM on December 26, 2006

With a 21-year-old and a 25-year-old, I don't think the age gap would matter that much. If your relationship does go on for years, the older you two get the smaller that gap will feel. As far as taking it from just-friends to dating...well, maybe just ask her? Tell her how much you like spending time with her, and how you'd love to take her outsometime. If she says no at least it'll be easy to avoid her, what with your two-and-a-half-hour distance and your impending graduation.
posted by christinetheslp at 2:37 PM on December 26, 2006

A) No
B) No
C) Just ask her and see

I'm seven years older than my SO, while my cousins SO is thirteen years older than he is (she's 40).

Four years is not an age gap so stop complicating things with issues that aren't there!
posted by Nugget at 2:37 PM on December 26, 2006

Well, I've been the "older" (ahem) woman probably 3 times in my 20s and early 30s; each time I was older by 2-4 years. It was never a big deal to me; if we enjoyed each other's company, had things in common, and were attracted to each other, we dated: simple as that. (Two of the relationships ended up being short-term, and the other lasted 3+ years.) As far as a possible gap between the two of you goes, maturity isn't automatically and rigidly linked to age. You guys may be quite similar and compatible, maturity-wise, or one of you may be much more mature than the other. Only one way to find out.

And yeah: stop overthinking EVERYTHING. And "cougars"? Ugh.
posted by scody at 2:38 PM on December 26, 2006

25 to 21 is not a cougar.

25 to 21 is fine.

the age difference here isn't as big of a deal as you think because you both are at the similar points in your lives. you have similar backgrounds, are in a similar point at school, and you get along with her.

however, if you think you are a "down", then you're probably need to get over your insecurity or else you are going to be approaching this relationship from the wrong angle. don't frame the begining of your relationship in terms of being unequal to her. if you feel that you are, then fix that. gain some security so, even if this relationship is a bust, any future girl you date won't have to deal with all the baggage and issues associated with someone who doesn't even value themself. you get rid of that, you are not only going to be a better boyfriend, you're going to have more fun and have better relatiionships with people in general.
posted by Stynxno at 2:43 PM on December 26, 2006

So if you've got experience with cougars as we call them (older women) please share.

4 years age gap does not equal "older woman", and neither does being 25. (And yes, you probably want to drop the word "cougar" from your lexicon, and hope she never reads this question; I think very few women would be happy to be called a cougar at 25.) I think you'll find that once you graduate college, basically everyone in their twenties and early thirties is more or less in the same peer group as you, and you might not even be able to accurately guess the age of people in this group (nor will it matter). Right now the only reason you don't know many people in this larger age range is that you spend most of your time in a setting where the vast majority of people are no older than 22.
posted by advil at 2:44 PM on December 26, 2006 [1 favorite]

Four years is a big age gap when you're 21. You're going to be a totally different person in five years.

That said, just go for it man. Have fun with it.
posted by CRM114 at 2:44 PM on December 26, 2006

21/2+7=17.5
(21-7)*2=28

17.5<2 528br>
She checks out.
posted by RobotHero at 2:53 PM on December 26, 2006 [2 favorites]

The age gap, not so much.

The fact that she's "not your type" but "looks like a porn star" and it's "weird" that she's on facebook and you're paranoid about telling people on a website that "OMG ON FACEBOOK WHAT WILL THEY THINK"... I'm not sure you're ready to talk to the opposite sex, at all.
posted by dagnyscott at 2:55 PM on December 26, 2006 [10 favorites]

Oh and I have no idea if she would read this- if so I'm certainly never going to stop hearing about it... regardless of outcome. So if you've got experience with cougars as we call them (older women) please share.

Now that I've said the read disclaimer- I'll also add she is not my type per say... not that I truly have a type because I think it's an unnecessary filter... but she is a moderate redhead with freckles and looks similar to the chick on love actually that is a porn star or whatever acting that's for and i typically go for the smaller tan skin dark hair thing.

Between the cougar thing and the explanation that she's not your type, I hope she doesn't happen upon this. And not because she'd kid around and you'd never hear the end of it, but because it makes you sound like a jerk.

Four years older is hardly a big deal - although it might be if the younger person skews really young. Which, no offense, I would assume to be the case about someone calling a twenty-five-year-old girl a cougar.

I sincerely doubt that a four-year difference with an older man/younger woman would even merit a comment, let alone soul-searching and the soliciting of advice from strangers.
posted by thehmsbeagle at 2:58 PM on December 26, 2006

A four year age difference isn't much of an issue 21-25 and becomes less so as you both age. Sounds like you have a compatible blend of attitudes. The red flag (learned through my own experience and observing friends in similar situations) is the disparity in your alcohol consumption. At this point, it's a discussion point but it could be a problem. (But then, in relationships, so many things could be future problems...)
Ah, to be 21...
posted by lois1950 at 3:03 PM on December 26, 2006

The only slight problem you may find is that some of her 25 year old friends would react to the news as a bit of a joke. Imagine one of your friends telling you they were dating a 17 or 18 year old girl. It would be mostly good natured stuff (unless your friends are wankers) but it'd be there nonetheless.

I was in a relationship with the same age gap (21-25) once and it was fine. Honestly. It is not a big deal. Her friends gave me some good natured ribbing, and I gave it right back with jokes about being elderly and needing wheelchairs.

Dude. It's fine.
posted by twirlypen at 3:06 PM on December 26, 2006

She's only four years older and not very far ahead of you (now) in school, so forget about the age thing.
posted by wryly at 3:07 PM on December 26, 2006

Speaking as the older woman in just this sort of relationship, I say go for it! I'm 26, he's 21, we've been together for over two years. If you're intuition about your connection with this girl is correct then you'd be crazy not to at least make a go of it. Good luck!
posted by Asherah at 3:07 PM on December 26, 2006

Does she like rambling wind-bags? Yes? Hold on and don't let go!

Four years is no problem unless your mental age is about 16, though I don't discount that given the "cougar" and "dating down" references.
posted by modernnomad at 3:09 PM on December 26, 2006 [2 favorites]

A) Would she feel like she was being judged for dating down? Who's to say, maybe she's shallow or insecure, maybe she's not. Maybe ask her?
B) Would that ever change? See A.
C) How do I approach crossing the friend barrier? Talk to her or kiss her.
posted by b33j at 3:52 PM on December 26, 2006

This last one was my favorite... rambling wind-bags... I said I was sorry!

The cougar comment was a joke really, I have a good friend that "tracks cougars" (completely lame/awesome to ridicule him) and this post is probably the only time i've used it with exception to making fun of said friend. I was really just trying to add a little humor to the post, which i've clearly failed.

As for the inferiority complex idea- I don't think that's a problem. I'm certainly see myself on the same level, I was more interested to see how we'd be perceived socially. I also recognize that the last sentence suffers from counting my chickens before the hatch/thinking waaay to far away.

As for soliciting advice from internet strangers... thank you!

Oh and the perceived disparity stems from the mutual friends we share... meaning if she were to mention she was out on a date with me, her friends would know exactly who I am/old, but they haven't seen me since HS so i got to thinking...

And lastly, thanks for ignoring my blatant disregard for sentence structure.
posted by eleongonzales at 4:03 PM on December 26, 2006

Four years is a pretty big difference if one person is 15 and the other is 19. Four years is a lot less when you get older and maturity and lifestyle differences matter more.
posted by Brian Puccio at 5:03 PM on December 26, 2006

Another vote for
It doesn't matter!
It won't matter then if it doesn't matter now!
and
Just ask her already!

And yeah, please expunge the word "cougar" from your vocabulary in this context right now.

disclaimer: I have a history of dating younger men, including the man I'm engaged to now. He's 8 years my junior. I'm pushing 40 and our energy levels are a fine match.
posted by lilywing13 at 5:42 PM on December 26, 2006

There is no age gap. She is in your same demographic and will be forever. Go for it. Don't call her a cougar though if you want this to last.
posted by Pollomacho at 5:51 PM on December 26, 2006

Shit, you call that an age difference? When I was 31 I dated a 45YO. Now THAT'S an age difference. So have at it, much like others have said. AFAIAC, if you're both consenting adults have at it.
posted by friarjohn at 6:13 PM on December 26, 2006

When my boyfriend and I started dating I was 26 and he was 20. That was nearly five years ago and we're still happily together.

The only age-related awkwardness was the first few months after we started dating. He wasn't 21 yet, so I couldn't bring him along when I went to bars with friends. But since you're 21, you don't need to worry about that.
posted by clarissajoy at 6:51 PM on December 26, 2006

From my perspective north of 40, you're both kids.

One of the best marriages I know amongst all my friends, there's a 23 year gap -- he's now 74, her 51. They are happier with each other than almost any couple I know.

Forget about 4 years. It's nothing.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 9:18 PM on December 26, 2006

I agree with stavros (from the other side of 50). And I'm not going to let him forget this lapse on his part.
posted by languagehat at 7:54 AM on December 27, 2006

A 25 year old is not a "cougar", please. And yeah it's not a big deal at all at these ages.
posted by delmoi at 8:02 AM on December 27, 2006

I'm going to break from the crowd and say don't do this. The age difference is not significant in and of itself, but it's clear from your letter that you think of her as much, much older than you, and that's a bad sign. Furthermore, you don't actually seem to want to date her; you seem to believe that you should want to. Yes, she's funny, but you also specifically mention that she's not your type, and you've given us a short novel about how you think she's too old for you. I'm 25, and while I would consider dating a 21 year old, I definitely wouldn't date a 21 year old who considered me to be significantly older than him, because that would tell me that he doesn't really feel grown up yet. The age difference is a problem because you view it as a problem.

You say you're mature for your age, but honestly, you're coming across as a pretty insecure guy with some issues (e.g., questionable alcohol use) that you need to work through before you'll be ready for a relationship with anyone, much less someone who is presumably more settled and grounded than you are. A long-distance relationship increases the difficulty factor. Keep this friendship, and if it turns into something more on its own, it was meant to be. But I would say, based on the incomplete information we have from you right now, don't pursue her.
posted by decathecting at 8:20 AM on December 27, 2006

A) Possibly, but not because of the age thing. Her friends might tease her a little, but that would be the end of it. My mom was 18 when she started dating my dad at 26 (been married almost 30 years). It worked because they were at similar points in their lives, like you and this girl are. Currently a (male) friend of mine is 26 and dating a 21-year-old. We love her and he's happy, so who are we to judge? If they judge her for dating down, it would be more because they don't like *you* rather than something as silly as not liking your age.

B) Not really applicable, but I'll say yes anyway. Especially once everyone gets a little older.

C) See recent column by Carolyn Hax. The short answer: flirt.

If I may add my opinion, I agree with the folks saying you are over-thinking this. Plus, your whole commentary on Facebook and types seems pretty juvenile. To be perfectly honest, I think you'll have more problems with being too immature than problems with her being an "older woman." I hope that distinction makes sense, as it would apply regardless of your partner's age. That's pretty ironic given your comments about everyone thinking you're mature, but there's a difference between being mature in life and in relationships. I would just chill out and see where it goes.

I get your cougar reference, but I think she'd have to be about 20-30 years older than this girl is, and maybe that much older than you as well.
posted by ml98tu at 10:26 AM on December 27, 2006

Ah that's where it's from, I didn't think he was clever enough to come up with it on his own...

As for the immaturity comments which seem to come from my mentioning facebook, I just found it odd that she had it and not because of age. I guess I view facebook as somewhat of a younger thing and I am very detached from it. I simply have it to keep up with old friends every now and then- it's been interesting being found by people you haven't seen/thought about in 10 years.

I've had my share of young relationships and while I don't want to concede relationship immaturity- that is probably true. At this point in our lives, and she has somewhat mentioned this, she is interested in the real thing. Meaning, when she dates again there would be a possibility of that person being the last. I know you all will take that as a forward statement, but we just had the who's getting married of our friends talk and she expressed her feeling of inequality/disappointment that she had not met that guy or wasn't at that point in her life. I am not really in that frame of mind as I still see a lot of things in my life that I need to develop before I consider that (yes, some of you have as well) and I have been taking the past two years to work on that development. I am actually very comfortable with who I am and what I stand for and have been struggling with more of the common issue facing people my age- career choices. Even in that department- I'm doing quite well and have already worked for a major corp for 16 months, supported myself, and have several pseudo offers already (only because I am not really eligible for a job offer since I still have a year and a half left in school). So that will work itself out.

As far as the not wanting to date her/not my type comment I thought I should include, I made mention of it only because it was a break from my normal behavior. Change is good, right?

And I am very much over-thinking this, as I do with most things. Fortunately, it has been helpful in my work and has left me prepared for situations most thought unlikely.

And like I said cougar was just a poorly formed joke that I used and typically it is used to describe women 20-30 years older, as ml98tu states.

As for the alcohol- I mean I drink often, like a college guy, but I also drink responsibly...

Anyway- We're going on a date tonight, thanks for the reassurance.
posted by eleongonzales at 11:11 AM on December 27, 2006

sorry i guess the facebook think is a bit confusing... I just found it odd that she had it, not because she was older (even though I view it as a younger thing), but rather that it is facebook? She doesn't seem like she would be one to start a poking match or whatever it is people have fun with on facebook or even the computer social scene type. With the exception of posting on hers- which I called myself out for being lame- I've probably only made a couple other comments. Oh and that reminds me about the comment about the love actually porn star remark... have you seen the movie? It was a reference to the person who plays that character, not the character.

Granted I'm soliciting advice from strangers on an online community site... so clearly I'm not someone who should judge- or write anymore novels. And with that- Thanks again for the advice.
posted by eleongonzales at 11:17 AM on December 27, 2006

You're way over-thinking this, but then, you're 21. Odds are you'll improve.

Just ask her out and let her work out whether or not she is going to have an issue with it. You're not a lawyer in the courtroom; you don't have to know the answer to the question before you ask it.
posted by phearlez at 11:42 AM on December 27, 2006

My oldest brother is 12 years younger than his wife. They started dating when he was 18 and she was 30. He'll be 50 next year and they're still together. I'm 16 years younger than my husband. One of my aunts is 20 years younger than her husband. Age is one of the more minor factors in a relationship (as long as those involved are consenting adults). Four years is nothing.

Compatability is much more important.
posted by deborah at 11:59 AM on December 27, 2006

I think pretty much everyone else has covered it here, but I'll chime in on saying you're over-thinking this, and in general the whole tone of your OP makes it somewhat obvious that you're still erm... shall we say a bit of a beginner at the whole relationships thing.

I say this as a 38 year old woman who was seriously pursued by a 26 year old man for a couple months. It took some soul searching on my part, yes, but I decided to let him take me out. We've been dating a couple of months and so far, so good. However, neither does this make me a 'cougar' despite the age diff, nor does it mean much to our relationship beyond the fact that we both get carded at bars (this is kinda nice actually). Our friends certainly don't care, which is why they're good friends.

The definition of 'cougar' for your information, is a middle aged woman (sometimes married) who actively and aggressively pursues men far younger than herself for purely physical affairs. Sounds like you simply have found a cool available girl who's into you. Four years is N O T H I N G, believe me, unless you choose to be a drama prince and make a huge deal out of it.

I was in a LTR for ten years with a guy the same age as me, I've dated guys 25 years older and (as you can see) over ten years younger. In my opinion, assuming both are consenting adults and compatible otherwise, chronological age is one of the more irrelevant things one can choose to get hung up on. I've dated guys in their fifties who act FAR more immature than my current boyfriend.
posted by lonefrontranger at 2:48 PM on December 27, 2006