Why do white leftists not want to be my friend?
May 30, 2024 10:31 AM Subscribe
White leftists who share my interests do not want to be my friend, but racial minorities who do not share my interests do. How can this be true given the anti-racist values of the former?
I am a racial minority living in the US. I have tried very hard in my life to make friends, to varying degrees of success. People usually say to try to make friends who share your interests. This strategy does not work for me. What I have found is that racial minorities who do not share my interests are more likely to want to be my friend than white people who do share my interests.
It’s easy to say that white people are racist. But the white people who share my interests are not racist. They are anti-racist, as evidenced by the things they post on social media and the chants they make at the concerts and parties I go to in my city to try to make friends.
I guess I would like to know why. Maybe another way of asking my question is, why would someone who is so vocal about things like racism and apartheid, ignore a brown person who is sitting by themselves crying because they don’t have any friends, and instead only socialize with their white friends in between chants of “Free Palestine”? And why is seemingly every white person in my city like this? What happened to the empathy they supossedly have?
I am a racial minority living in the US. I have tried very hard in my life to make friends, to varying degrees of success. People usually say to try to make friends who share your interests. This strategy does not work for me. What I have found is that racial minorities who do not share my interests are more likely to want to be my friend than white people who do share my interests.
It’s easy to say that white people are racist. But the white people who share my interests are not racist. They are anti-racist, as evidenced by the things they post on social media and the chants they make at the concerts and parties I go to in my city to try to make friends.
I guess I would like to know why. Maybe another way of asking my question is, why would someone who is so vocal about things like racism and apartheid, ignore a brown person who is sitting by themselves crying because they don’t have any friends, and instead only socialize with their white friends in between chants of “Free Palestine”? And why is seemingly every white person in my city like this? What happened to the empathy they supossedly have?
Speaking as a white, left-wing person — I have noticed in my own life that there is effectively zero correlation between the amount of kindness and empathy a person shows towards others, and where that person falls on the political spectrum.
I know plenty of sweet, warm, caring leftists who actively spread joy to the people around them. I also know plenty of prickly, angry leftists who are unpleasant to be around. And the exact same thing is true of the more centrist and right-leaning people in my circles.
I used to gravitate towards people with left-leaning politics, on the assumption that our apparently shared values would provide a safe foundation for a friendship. But I've honestly formed much better connections by disregarding people's stated politics entirely, and instead focusing on how they interact with others around them.
posted by mekily at 10:44 AM on May 30 [57 favorites]
I know plenty of sweet, warm, caring leftists who actively spread joy to the people around them. I also know plenty of prickly, angry leftists who are unpleasant to be around. And the exact same thing is true of the more centrist and right-leaning people in my circles.
I used to gravitate towards people with left-leaning politics, on the assumption that our apparently shared values would provide a safe foundation for a friendship. But I've honestly formed much better connections by disregarding people's stated politics entirely, and instead focusing on how they interact with others around them.
posted by mekily at 10:44 AM on May 30 [57 favorites]
There are a lot of other factors that affect friendship choice besides race and interests. For example, I have an interest in a specific type and mode of music, but I don't have any friends who have that interest -- the other people I've met with that interest don't share other important life choices, wouldn't get my jokes, and have built very different lives than I have.
You have a lot of attributes that are not your race or interests. These attributes are more difficult to name and list because we don't generally have widely-understood ways to describe or name them, but they are much more important. Your having or not having these attributes is neither good nor bad, but they will affect whether another person feels a connection to you, feels that a friendship with you will be a good match for their own attributes, and whether you are approachable.
(Need and sadness are important reasons for someone to reach out, and people should reach out to you, but they are not a foundation for a mutually enjoyable and trust-based friendship).
posted by amtho at 10:47 AM on May 30 [16 favorites]
You have a lot of attributes that are not your race or interests. These attributes are more difficult to name and list because we don't generally have widely-understood ways to describe or name them, but they are much more important. Your having or not having these attributes is neither good nor bad, but they will affect whether another person feels a connection to you, feels that a friendship with you will be a good match for their own attributes, and whether you are approachable.
(Need and sadness are important reasons for someone to reach out, and people should reach out to you, but they are not a foundation for a mutually enjoyable and trust-based friendship).
posted by amtho at 10:47 AM on May 30 [16 favorites]
As a white leftist, one of the hardest things I've ever learned is that people's stated beliefs rarely match up to their interpersonal behavior. It is, in many ways, a lot easier to advocate for the unnamed masses than it is to do the work of meaningful, thoughtful enagement with an individual. I have also been a person sitting alone crying in a crowd full of people talking about peace and love and empathy. I am also sure I have, at least once, failed to notice that someone else in my immediate circle was suffering. We are human, hence we can all--even the saints among us-- be enormous insensitive buttheads from time to time.
Anonymous, I don't know where you are so I can't offer to buy you a cup of tea, but I hear you and I'm listening and I'm sorry.
posted by thivaia at 10:50 AM on May 30 [16 favorites]
Anonymous, I don't know where you are so I can't offer to buy you a cup of tea, but I hear you and I'm listening and I'm sorry.
posted by thivaia at 10:50 AM on May 30 [16 favorites]
Hi. Lefty white person here who tries to be anti-racist but does not always succeed. Couple things I can think of that might be at play here.
One is something from my childhood in North Carolina -- schoolkids have their implicit and sometimes explicit social hierarchies, and in my elementary school, Black and brown kids were mostly shut out of the top of the hierarchy. That my two best friends were Black was, in part, a measure of how far down the social hierarchy I myself was.
I think these implicit social hierarchies still exist. Some places. Some contexts. Including for adults. Including for lefty anti-racist adults.
Another is much more of an adult thing, I guess -- I don't trust myself to be a good friend to a person of color. I'm not an intentional asshole, but I've racked up quite the list of unintentionally *ist (they weren't all racist) fuckups. People of color have enough shit to deal with, why would they want to deal with mine?
Whatever the reasons, I'm sorry you're dealing with this. Feel free to check my geographical location in my bio, and MeMail if you're local. I'd be happy to go for coffee or a meal, my treat.
posted by humbug at 10:54 AM on May 30 [5 favorites]
One is something from my childhood in North Carolina -- schoolkids have their implicit and sometimes explicit social hierarchies, and in my elementary school, Black and brown kids were mostly shut out of the top of the hierarchy. That my two best friends were Black was, in part, a measure of how far down the social hierarchy I myself was.
I think these implicit social hierarchies still exist. Some places. Some contexts. Including for adults. Including for lefty anti-racist adults.
Another is much more of an adult thing, I guess -- I don't trust myself to be a good friend to a person of color. I'm not an intentional asshole, but I've racked up quite the list of unintentionally *ist (they weren't all racist) fuckups. People of color have enough shit to deal with, why would they want to deal with mine?
Whatever the reasons, I'm sorry you're dealing with this. Feel free to check my geographical location in my bio, and MeMail if you're local. I'd be happy to go for coffee or a meal, my treat.
posted by humbug at 10:54 AM on May 30 [5 favorites]
My first thought would be that there is a spectrum of issues involved with left/right allegiance: contraception, woman's health, abortion, race, LGBTQ, authoritarian government, gun sanity, poverty, segregation, urban blight, separate justice systems for rich and poor, etc.
I happen to be a college educated Left/Liberal old (70) white guy.
On preview I agree with phunniemee. I would add that in my life I have come to the conclusion that a large number of people are #1 - cheap sons of guns, #2 - more likely to be sure about a topic if they know little about it, #3 - are perfectly willing to "back into" opinions based on "hot buttons" for them (e.g., - Abortion is murder and Democrats don't agree so all Democrats are evil... seriously, this is why I can't have conversations with people in my own church).
Last but not least, I heard someone say recently that a lot of the garbage and hate and authoritarian behavior that goes on these days would ***NOT*** be tolerated if many of the "Great Generation" were still living today, because they had to deal with the sacrifices and blood and death related to fascism and authoritarianism.
I hope this was on topic, if not I accept in advance whatever the moderators choose to do.
posted by forthright at 10:58 AM on May 30 [2 favorites]
I happen to be a college educated Left/Liberal old (70) white guy.
On preview I agree with phunniemee. I would add that in my life I have come to the conclusion that a large number of people are #1 - cheap sons of guns, #2 - more likely to be sure about a topic if they know little about it, #3 - are perfectly willing to "back into" opinions based on "hot buttons" for them (e.g., - Abortion is murder and Democrats don't agree so all Democrats are evil... seriously, this is why I can't have conversations with people in my own church).
Last but not least, I heard someone say recently that a lot of the garbage and hate and authoritarian behavior that goes on these days would ***NOT*** be tolerated if many of the "Great Generation" were still living today, because they had to deal with the sacrifices and blood and death related to fascism and authoritarianism.
I hope this was on topic, if not I accept in advance whatever the moderators choose to do.
posted by forthright at 10:58 AM on May 30 [2 favorites]
This is cynical as hell, and I don't know if it will be helpful, and it may hurt people's feelings, and for that I'm sorry, but I'm gonna call it as I see it.
There is, unfortunately, a huge system of performative behavior. I suppose it's part of human nature, because it doesn't seem to be tied to any particular race or culture, belief system, interest, whatever.
I'm of the belief that for many, the strongest drive is not that they believe in something (regardless of what it is), it's that they feel a need to BE SEEN as believing in that something. A great deal of attention-seeking is built into it.
I have a great deal less faith in a person that is waving signs and putting up posters and running their mouth all over the place than I do someone who is quietly going about their daily life actually DOING the thing instead of talking (or yelling, or demanding others do) the thing. And the quiet person, who is simply living it? They may never speak up at all, but they have more true impact than the people who are loud and getting attention.
Protestors, specifically, rarely receive positive attention for whatever their cause may be. It might have been a good concept once upon a time, but in practice, especially modern practice, it causes more harm than good. The general public (whomever that undecided, mostly disinterested, general public happens to be for a particular cause) tends to see a protestor as somewhere on the spectrum between annoying and outright destructive. Absolutely NONE of those reactions are helpful to a cause, no matter what that cause is.
Same thing goes for any religious proselytizer. Might as well simplify it to any proselytizer... because it works out the same. Humans do NOT like being pushed, or bullied, or manipulated. Sure, that behavior gets some - but pushes away more. It's harmful. Want to actually attract someone to any sort of belief system? Simply go about your day actually LIVING it, and answer questions if asked. SHOW, not tell... BE, not talk.
And that wraps back around to your question. Those people, whether their intentions are true or not, aren't very good at living what they preach. Seek those who are. They're probably not shouting from the rooftops, so they're gonna be tougher to find. Best advice I have for that is to figure out where the people would be who are quietly doing the work you believe in, and join in.
It's smaller. It's harder. It doesn't get all the attention. But it's the work that's actually having an impact.
Add on to all that a layer of "it's tough for adults to make friends". But your odds are a lot better when you look in the places where the people with the same values hang out, rather than those who just claim loudly that they have those values.
* And since I thought about it, but wasn't sure I should offer, but I see someone else did, so I guess I'm ok doing so... if you're in my area, the offer is open to message me, too.
posted by stormyteal at 11:01 AM on May 30 [22 favorites]
There is, unfortunately, a huge system of performative behavior. I suppose it's part of human nature, because it doesn't seem to be tied to any particular race or culture, belief system, interest, whatever.
I'm of the belief that for many, the strongest drive is not that they believe in something (regardless of what it is), it's that they feel a need to BE SEEN as believing in that something. A great deal of attention-seeking is built into it.
I have a great deal less faith in a person that is waving signs and putting up posters and running their mouth all over the place than I do someone who is quietly going about their daily life actually DOING the thing instead of talking (or yelling, or demanding others do) the thing. And the quiet person, who is simply living it? They may never speak up at all, but they have more true impact than the people who are loud and getting attention.
Protestors, specifically, rarely receive positive attention for whatever their cause may be. It might have been a good concept once upon a time, but in practice, especially modern practice, it causes more harm than good. The general public (whomever that undecided, mostly disinterested, general public happens to be for a particular cause) tends to see a protestor as somewhere on the spectrum between annoying and outright destructive. Absolutely NONE of those reactions are helpful to a cause, no matter what that cause is.
Same thing goes for any religious proselytizer. Might as well simplify it to any proselytizer... because it works out the same. Humans do NOT like being pushed, or bullied, or manipulated. Sure, that behavior gets some - but pushes away more. It's harmful. Want to actually attract someone to any sort of belief system? Simply go about your day actually LIVING it, and answer questions if asked. SHOW, not tell... BE, not talk.
And that wraps back around to your question. Those people, whether their intentions are true or not, aren't very good at living what they preach. Seek those who are. They're probably not shouting from the rooftops, so they're gonna be tougher to find. Best advice I have for that is to figure out where the people would be who are quietly doing the work you believe in, and join in.
It's smaller. It's harder. It doesn't get all the attention. But it's the work that's actually having an impact.
Add on to all that a layer of "it's tough for adults to make friends". But your odds are a lot better when you look in the places where the people with the same values hang out, rather than those who just claim loudly that they have those values.
* And since I thought about it, but wasn't sure I should offer, but I see someone else did, so I guess I'm ok doing so... if you're in my area, the offer is open to message me, too.
posted by stormyteal at 11:01 AM on May 30 [22 favorites]
Racism takes many forms, and anti-racist white people are not immune to all, or even any, of those forms. I'm speaking as a white person who considers themself anti-racist, reflecting on my individual experiences.
There are plenty of white people who would vote against civil rights legislation, complain about "those people," and otherwise display behaviors that anti-racist white people would consider racist. And yet, they can be perfectly comfortable with forming authentic relationships with individual people of color. You could call this the "you are one of the good ones" syndrome.
Conversely, there are plenty of white people who vote in anti-racist ways and show up for demonstrations, etc, yet have a hard time relating to people of color as people. They're awkward and avoidant, and sometimes this is caused by fear of doing/saying something racist and being called out on it, which would cause them to feel defensive or ashamed. You could call this the "I need to be one of the good ones" syndrome.
In my experience, you're more likely to encounter the first syndrome on the right, and the second syndrome on the left.
posted by expialidocious at 11:04 AM on May 30 [25 favorites]
There are plenty of white people who would vote against civil rights legislation, complain about "those people," and otherwise display behaviors that anti-racist white people would consider racist. And yet, they can be perfectly comfortable with forming authentic relationships with individual people of color. You could call this the "you are one of the good ones" syndrome.
Conversely, there are plenty of white people who vote in anti-racist ways and show up for demonstrations, etc, yet have a hard time relating to people of color as people. They're awkward and avoidant, and sometimes this is caused by fear of doing/saying something racist and being called out on it, which would cause them to feel defensive or ashamed. You could call this the "I need to be one of the good ones" syndrome.
In my experience, you're more likely to encounter the first syndrome on the right, and the second syndrome on the left.
posted by expialidocious at 11:04 AM on May 30 [25 favorites]
Cultural differences matter when it comes to friendships, and to some extent it's not even racist or anything "wrong" as such to gravitate more towards people who share the same culture and same background. Everyone tends to make friends based on ~matching vibes~ which is just a fancy way of saying "shared assumptions about the world, shared experiences, shared expectations from the world". It's not a rule, but more like a tendency? That probably explains to a large extent why people of your shared ethnicity are more willing to hang out with you than people who don't share your ethnicity.
FWIW as an immigrant to a white majority country & area, the white people who are easiest for me to get along with and make friends with are those who describe themselves as "very open minded" and "adventurous" and "very open to new cultures and new experiences". NOT the white people who describe themselves as "anti-racist" and "leftist".
Trust me, I do hear the subtle orientalism in those self-descriptions of my white friends, but obviously you don't JUST look for those descriptors, that's just a starting point. Filter from the larger group of "open" hippie type people to find people who are anti-racist among them, and from within that group, find people you gel with in other ways.
For my white friends those kinda hinky sounding self descriptors are just a matter of not having better words and terms to describe exactly what they mean IMO. In real life, these "open to new types of people" folks are more likely to have ACTIVELY sought out people from other cultures and races to mingle with throughout their adult lives, and let me tell you that this makes a person more anti-racist than memorizing Ibrahim X Kendi's works and hanging out in leftist political fora.
tl;dr: look for people who describe themselves as "enthusiastic about new cultures" and filter to find the anti-racists from within that group.
posted by MiraK at 11:12 AM on May 30 [18 favorites]
FWIW as an immigrant to a white majority country & area, the white people who are easiest for me to get along with and make friends with are those who describe themselves as "very open minded" and "adventurous" and "very open to new cultures and new experiences". NOT the white people who describe themselves as "anti-racist" and "leftist".
Trust me, I do hear the subtle orientalism in those self-descriptions of my white friends, but obviously you don't JUST look for those descriptors, that's just a starting point. Filter from the larger group of "open" hippie type people to find people who are anti-racist among them, and from within that group, find people you gel with in other ways.
For my white friends those kinda hinky sounding self descriptors are just a matter of not having better words and terms to describe exactly what they mean IMO. In real life, these "open to new types of people" folks are more likely to have ACTIVELY sought out people from other cultures and races to mingle with throughout their adult lives, and let me tell you that this makes a person more anti-racist than memorizing Ibrahim X Kendi's works and hanging out in leftist political fora.
tl;dr: look for people who describe themselves as "enthusiastic about new cultures" and filter to find the anti-racists from within that group.
posted by MiraK at 11:12 AM on May 30 [18 favorites]
I resonated with this comment from a different thread: "We connect to people where we have emotions in common." White leftists are less likely to share a common emotional experience with you than other racial minorities.
posted by danceswithlight at 11:14 AM on May 30 [16 favorites]
posted by danceswithlight at 11:14 AM on May 30 [16 favorites]
Posting about being anti-racist can be a from of self-branding as a "good person". Whether or not they actually ARE a good or anti-racist person is a totally different story. It doesn't really matter what someone says - the best way to evaluate a person is on their ACTIONS.
Protesting is a good action, but remember that for some white people, protesting is kind of fun, and even has a social dimension (like those pink hat protests when Hilary Clinton didn't win the presidency). So many of the photos from that protest had smiling social groups, and cute slogans. Even crafting circles to knit little cute kitty hats! Ditto the Capitol Insurrection - white people were having FUN at that protest.
By contrast, consider the Black people who marched for Black Lives Matter. They weren't smiling or being cute - the issue and the protest were serious, risky, and even possibly life-threatening for them. They knew they'd probably be pepper sprayed and maybe beaten and arrested.
So yes, some brownie points for protesting - but the truth is that white people are the least likely to be harmed at a protest, and the least likely to lose their jobs for participating. (To be fair sometimes there is violence and white people are harmed, I don't mean to discount all risk - but the risk definitely scales by race!). So while it's great that they're protesting, it's also sometimes useful to remember that they're also putting the least on the line by doing so. As a brown person you'd be in much more danger if you attended that same protest. For white people, protesting doesn't carry the same risk, potential cost, or require the same level of commitment, because they most likely won't be harmed or lose anything. So just factor that into your calculus of their commitment level!
posted by nouvelle-personne at 11:16 AM on May 30 [5 favorites]
Protesting is a good action, but remember that for some white people, protesting is kind of fun, and even has a social dimension (like those pink hat protests when Hilary Clinton didn't win the presidency). So many of the photos from that protest had smiling social groups, and cute slogans. Even crafting circles to knit little cute kitty hats! Ditto the Capitol Insurrection - white people were having FUN at that protest.
By contrast, consider the Black people who marched for Black Lives Matter. They weren't smiling or being cute - the issue and the protest were serious, risky, and even possibly life-threatening for them. They knew they'd probably be pepper sprayed and maybe beaten and arrested.
So yes, some brownie points for protesting - but the truth is that white people are the least likely to be harmed at a protest, and the least likely to lose their jobs for participating. (To be fair sometimes there is violence and white people are harmed, I don't mean to discount all risk - but the risk definitely scales by race!). So while it's great that they're protesting, it's also sometimes useful to remember that they're also putting the least on the line by doing so. As a brown person you'd be in much more danger if you attended that same protest. For white people, protesting doesn't carry the same risk, potential cost, or require the same level of commitment, because they most likely won't be harmed or lose anything. So just factor that into your calculus of their commitment level!
posted by nouvelle-personne at 11:16 AM on May 30 [5 favorites]
Are you figuratively crying in the corner--feeling isolated by people who share your interests but who don't want to further associate with you, but still emotionally composed--or literally crying in the corner? Because if it's the former, it's a lot of what people are saying above, but if it's the latter, it's a question of emotional regulation.
posted by kingdead at 11:25 AM on May 30 [11 favorites]
posted by kingdead at 11:25 AM on May 30 [11 favorites]
May I gently encourage you to take a clear look at the undertone I am picking up in your question, which is that you see white friends as more desirable than POC friends?
I note that you say POC are willing to befriend you... but then you say you don't have any friends. Where are those POC people who approached you, and why didn't they convert into actual friends?
Is it possible you're putting white people on a pedestal as "the most desirable" or "high status" type of friends? And brushing off friendships with POC as "low value"?
Could you possibly also be extra avoidant of befriending POC who you perceive as being "lower status" than you? For instance, those who are newer to the US, speak less perfect English, have darker skin than you, less prestigious jobs, education, or zip codes than you, or come from lower-GDP countries than you?
This kind of mindset is of course rampant all over the world so you're not alone if you're consciously or subconsciously ranking people in this way... but it's really something to consider.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 11:35 AM on May 30 [12 favorites]
I note that you say POC are willing to befriend you... but then you say you don't have any friends. Where are those POC people who approached you, and why didn't they convert into actual friends?
Is it possible you're putting white people on a pedestal as "the most desirable" or "high status" type of friends? And brushing off friendships with POC as "low value"?
Could you possibly also be extra avoidant of befriending POC who you perceive as being "lower status" than you? For instance, those who are newer to the US, speak less perfect English, have darker skin than you, less prestigious jobs, education, or zip codes than you, or come from lower-GDP countries than you?
This kind of mindset is of course rampant all over the world so you're not alone if you're consciously or subconsciously ranking people in this way... but it's really something to consider.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 11:35 AM on May 30 [12 favorites]
There may be confirmation bias involved. Many Progressives I've met are snobs, always believing they are progressive in life, but often attracted to privilege. There may be confirmation bias involved here, also. Implicit Racism is pretty much the default, see, look at me splaining it to you.
posted by theora55 at 12:06 PM on May 30 [4 favorites]
posted by theora55 at 12:06 PM on May 30 [4 favorites]
Generously speaking, these white leftists might not want to tokenzie you. Less generously, well, all of the above.
I can also confirm it’s hard to make friends as an adult, and there seems to be an epidemic of loneliness right now. I’m sorry you are struggling too.
Thanks for sharing this. It’ll help me reflect more on my actions. I wish you the best and hope things get better.
posted by bluedaisy at 12:26 PM on May 30 [5 favorites]
I can also confirm it’s hard to make friends as an adult, and there seems to be an epidemic of loneliness right now. I’m sorry you are struggling too.
Thanks for sharing this. It’ll help me reflect more on my actions. I wish you the best and hope things get better.
posted by bluedaisy at 12:26 PM on May 30 [5 favorites]
They are anti-racist, as evidenced by the things they post on social media and the chants they make at the concerts and parties I go to in my city to try to make friends.
I think this premise is faulty; people can do these things for many reasons- and being anti-racist is certainly one of them!- but also for many of the reasons pointed out above.
Maybe another way of asking my question is, why would someone who is so vocal about things like racism and apartheid, ignore a brown person who is sitting by themselves crying because they don’t have any friends, and instead only socialize with their white friends in between chants of “Free Palestine”?
There could be many things going on here: people are racist; people are more likely to socialize with friends they already know; people are uncomfortable with other people crying when they don't know why that person is crying; protests and parties are not ideal places to meet people and make friends. I think there are many reasons to be deeply sad at certain protests, and lots of people are going to respond to that by giving people space. If you're being deeply sad at parties- well, I hate to say it, but people are going to find that extremely off-putting and not want to interact, because parties are for having fun and relaxing. It doesn't matter what color your skin is.
I also think there are several steps missing between white person who is not a racist and white person who wants to be my friend. Even if I meet someone who shares many personal characteristics with me it does not mean we are going to be friends; and definitely not without getting to know each other first. Getting to know each other relies on a number of other things falling into place over perhaps weeks, months, or years. I know it's very hard and lonely to feel like you don't have any friends, or that the people you'd like to hang out with don't necessarily want to hang out with you. But I think that relying on a shared value or taste to guarantee automatic friendship is unhelpful- it's really only a first step toward making connections. There's still a lot work to put into the friendship.
posted by oneirodynia at 12:48 PM on May 30 [9 favorites]
I think this premise is faulty; people can do these things for many reasons- and being anti-racist is certainly one of them!- but also for many of the reasons pointed out above.
Maybe another way of asking my question is, why would someone who is so vocal about things like racism and apartheid, ignore a brown person who is sitting by themselves crying because they don’t have any friends, and instead only socialize with their white friends in between chants of “Free Palestine”?
There could be many things going on here: people are racist; people are more likely to socialize with friends they already know; people are uncomfortable with other people crying when they don't know why that person is crying; protests and parties are not ideal places to meet people and make friends. I think there are many reasons to be deeply sad at certain protests, and lots of people are going to respond to that by giving people space. If you're being deeply sad at parties- well, I hate to say it, but people are going to find that extremely off-putting and not want to interact, because parties are for having fun and relaxing. It doesn't matter what color your skin is.
I also think there are several steps missing between white person who is not a racist and white person who wants to be my friend. Even if I meet someone who shares many personal characteristics with me it does not mean we are going to be friends; and definitely not without getting to know each other first. Getting to know each other relies on a number of other things falling into place over perhaps weeks, months, or years. I know it's very hard and lonely to feel like you don't have any friends, or that the people you'd like to hang out with don't necessarily want to hang out with you. But I think that relying on a shared value or taste to guarantee automatic friendship is unhelpful- it's really only a first step toward making connections. There's still a lot work to put into the friendship.
posted by oneirodynia at 12:48 PM on May 30 [9 favorites]
Leaving aside the racial dynamics (which isn't to say that they aren't important), I'm not sure about your theory of friendship. In my experience a good way to make friends is to join and regularly attend a group that is dedicated to single interest that you feel pretty strongly about, that not just anyone would be interested in. So things like soccer or knitting or book club or a group for speaking a foreign language. Everyone likes going to concerts and parties; those are good things to do with your existing friends but because they are sort of general interest, it's harder to make a connection with a new person there.
If I saw a person crying alone for a medium amount of time at a concert or a protest, I would check in them to see if they needed help and help them if I could. If they said they were sad and lonely I might invite them to come sit with me and/or my group for a while, depending on a wide variety of factors. It would be an extraordinary circumstance for that to lead to friendship though..
posted by Kwine at 12:57 PM on May 30 [14 favorites]
If I saw a person crying alone for a medium amount of time at a concert or a protest, I would check in them to see if they needed help and help them if I could. If they said they were sad and lonely I might invite them to come sit with me and/or my group for a while, depending on a wide variety of factors. It would be an extraordinary circumstance for that to lead to friendship though..
posted by Kwine at 12:57 PM on May 30 [14 favorites]
This is almost certainly a complex thing and not down to any one specific reason. There is no doubt unexamined racism and white fragility at work here, and folks above have outlined the ways those play out pretty well.
But my guess is that there are also sort of universal hard truths about friendship going on as well. Shared interests really aren't enough to make a whole friendship; they're enough to start a good conversation, sure, and depending on the interest it's a good pretext for hanging out. But by and large friendships come from proximity, repeated encounters, emotional resonance, and...like...vibes. (I'm not saying that racism can't be influencing the vibes btw -- totally possible and even likely. But even the least racist person in the world can't vibe with every single individual out there.)
I'm so sorry that you are feeling unloved in and disappointed by your circles; it is definitely not your fault. I hope you do find the friends you are looking for.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 12:59 PM on May 30 [5 favorites]
But my guess is that there are also sort of universal hard truths about friendship going on as well. Shared interests really aren't enough to make a whole friendship; they're enough to start a good conversation, sure, and depending on the interest it's a good pretext for hanging out. But by and large friendships come from proximity, repeated encounters, emotional resonance, and...like...vibes. (I'm not saying that racism can't be influencing the vibes btw -- totally possible and even likely. But even the least racist person in the world can't vibe with every single individual out there.)
I'm so sorry that you are feeling unloved in and disappointed by your circles; it is definitely not your fault. I hope you do find the friends you are looking for.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 12:59 PM on May 30 [5 favorites]
I've not lived in any place where I was a racial minority, but I lived somewhere for a long time where I was a different kind of minority. And so if I happened to see someone who also seemed to be a minority along those lines, amid the sea of the majority population, I would make overtures to them, partly thinking we might be friends, partly in solidarity, and partly with the thought that "hooray I don't have to be in this sea alone" and "what a relief, someone to talk to who might know where I'm coming from, or at least be a welcome change from only having [majority] people to talk with." That might be part of the dynamic you're experiencing with the people who do want to be your friend.
Whereas [majority] people didn't have any reason like that to make overtures to me, or be desperate for a [non-majority] friend. The population of people who were in a position to understand them and share their cultural references etc. that was available to them was huge, in contrast to mine. Potential friends weren't a rare commodity for them, while non-[majority] people were in very rare supply for me.
posted by trig at 1:04 PM on May 30 [3 favorites]
Whereas [majority] people didn't have any reason like that to make overtures to me, or be desperate for a [non-majority] friend. The population of people who were in a position to understand them and share their cultural references etc. that was available to them was huge, in contrast to mine. Potential friends weren't a rare commodity for them, while non-[majority] people were in very rare supply for me.
posted by trig at 1:04 PM on May 30 [3 favorites]
One dimension of friendship is that it just doesn't have much to do with your political views. Like for a lot of people, aligned politics might be one prerequisite of friendship, but it's seldom a sufficient basis to form an entire friendship around. I'm seconding blast hardcheese here, I guess, on the proximity and repeated encounters and vibes front.
A couple examples, I'm a white person who goes to concerts and protests and chants "Free Palestine" and has been doing versions of all that for 20+ years at this point, and I've never once made a friend in any of those contexts. But I did participate in a specific local mutual aid group on a weekly basis for a couple years recently, and I made a handful of friends whom I'd otherwise never have met. I also made friends by going to the same diner every week on the same day and befriending a waiter there, who noticed that I was always reading, asked me about it, and introduced me to all his friends in his book club. I would've never made those friends by going to a different restaurant every week.
posted by kensington314 at 1:17 PM on May 30 [4 favorites]
A couple examples, I'm a white person who goes to concerts and protests and chants "Free Palestine" and has been doing versions of all that for 20+ years at this point, and I've never once made a friend in any of those contexts. But I did participate in a specific local mutual aid group on a weekly basis for a couple years recently, and I made a handful of friends whom I'd otherwise never have met. I also made friends by going to the same diner every week on the same day and befriending a waiter there, who noticed that I was always reading, asked me about it, and introduced me to all his friends in his book club. I would've never made those friends by going to a different restaurant every week.
posted by kensington314 at 1:17 PM on May 30 [4 favorites]
I'm sorry you're going through this, first of all.
I notice, though, that you haven't mentioned what your interests are. That's going to have a lot more bearing on how your making-of-friends goes than does race or political affiliation; if you're interests include something uncommon, it'd be hard for you to make friends who share that interest no matter where you were. I mean, I consider myself to be leaning-left and I'm pretty dang white, but if you came up to me and said "Yay! Let's be friends! I can't wait to tell you about my hobby - I hand-plate tablespoons in copper!" I might just listen politely and then leave at the earliest opportunity - but not because I don't want to be friends with someone not-white, but rather because I don't have any interest in copper-plating tablespoons. (But by the same token, if I were to yammer away at you about some of my own interests there's a good chance you'd also be trying to walk away from ME.)
Also, making friends as an adult is just HARD. It SUCKS - and I feel you, I often feel like I don't really have a "tribe" here in New York since most of my really good friends either moved out of the city or are in super-busy jobs and I never see them. But there are a couple people around who are more like activity buddies - and it wasn't race or politics that connected us, it was just random shared interests:
* One woman I met because we kept on turning up at the same pub quiz, she was on a different team and our teams had a lively rivalry, and then the pub quiz moved to Brooklyn and she was the only person from her team who wanted to come out that way and we drafted her onto our team.
* One guy I met at a free concert for Taj Mahal, and I actually only spoke to him because he was really tall and his umbrella was dripping on me and I snarked at him to move it. But he apologized so nicely that I felt bad about being mean and forgave him and we got to talking.
* One guy I met via a kayaking club.
* A couple ex-boyfriends ended up as friends.
* One guy I know is someone I geeked out with over a very specific episode of the show BLACK MIRROR in exactly the same way.
* A casual friend is a woman from our community garden who I often let bitch at me about other members being jerkoffs. (And then I joined the leadership team and now we both bitch about the same things.)
You'll notice I didn't mention the race or the politics of any of these people; that's because that's just one facet of these peoples' personalities. In fact, one of those ex-boyfriends (someone I consider to be one of my very best friends today) is very, very different from me politically, to the point that we made a rule that on any election day we are only allowed to talk about puppies because otherwise we get too mad. (He's EXTREEEEEEEEMly left.) But politics isn't what bonded us - it was theater and a shared love of Douglas Adams that did.
Again, I really feel you on the loneliness - it's tough. I feel that sometimes too. But I wouldn't necessarily lean on politics or race as a foot-in-the-door to friendship with anyone - as trite as it sounds, I'd focus more on whether you have anything else in common. It's still going to take time, don't get me wrong, but finding fellow copper-plating enthusiasts or whatever will probably get you further than finding someone who votes a certain way.
Good luck.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:56 PM on May 30 [7 favorites]
I notice, though, that you haven't mentioned what your interests are. That's going to have a lot more bearing on how your making-of-friends goes than does race or political affiliation; if you're interests include something uncommon, it'd be hard for you to make friends who share that interest no matter where you were. I mean, I consider myself to be leaning-left and I'm pretty dang white, but if you came up to me and said "Yay! Let's be friends! I can't wait to tell you about my hobby - I hand-plate tablespoons in copper!" I might just listen politely and then leave at the earliest opportunity - but not because I don't want to be friends with someone not-white, but rather because I don't have any interest in copper-plating tablespoons. (But by the same token, if I were to yammer away at you about some of my own interests there's a good chance you'd also be trying to walk away from ME.)
Also, making friends as an adult is just HARD. It SUCKS - and I feel you, I often feel like I don't really have a "tribe" here in New York since most of my really good friends either moved out of the city or are in super-busy jobs and I never see them. But there are a couple people around who are more like activity buddies - and it wasn't race or politics that connected us, it was just random shared interests:
* One woman I met because we kept on turning up at the same pub quiz, she was on a different team and our teams had a lively rivalry, and then the pub quiz moved to Brooklyn and she was the only person from her team who wanted to come out that way and we drafted her onto our team.
* One guy I met at a free concert for Taj Mahal, and I actually only spoke to him because he was really tall and his umbrella was dripping on me and I snarked at him to move it. But he apologized so nicely that I felt bad about being mean and forgave him and we got to talking.
* One guy I met via a kayaking club.
* A couple ex-boyfriends ended up as friends.
* One guy I know is someone I geeked out with over a very specific episode of the show BLACK MIRROR in exactly the same way.
* A casual friend is a woman from our community garden who I often let bitch at me about other members being jerkoffs. (And then I joined the leadership team and now we both bitch about the same things.)
You'll notice I didn't mention the race or the politics of any of these people; that's because that's just one facet of these peoples' personalities. In fact, one of those ex-boyfriends (someone I consider to be one of my very best friends today) is very, very different from me politically, to the point that we made a rule that on any election day we are only allowed to talk about puppies because otherwise we get too mad. (He's EXTREEEEEEEEMly left.) But politics isn't what bonded us - it was theater and a shared love of Douglas Adams that did.
Again, I really feel you on the loneliness - it's tough. I feel that sometimes too. But I wouldn't necessarily lean on politics or race as a foot-in-the-door to friendship with anyone - as trite as it sounds, I'd focus more on whether you have anything else in common. It's still going to take time, don't get me wrong, but finding fellow copper-plating enthusiasts or whatever will probably get you further than finding someone who votes a certain way.
Good luck.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:56 PM on May 30 [7 favorites]
"And why is seemingly every white person in my city like this?"
Any chance you live in Seattle? If you do, that's the "Seattle Freeze"
posted by Jacqueline at 1:57 PM on May 30 [1 favorite]
Any chance you live in Seattle? If you do, that's the "Seattle Freeze"
posted by Jacqueline at 1:57 PM on May 30 [1 favorite]
Being anti-racist and being friendly are not the same, and it is not hypocrisy to believe in and advocate for political liberation and systemic change while not befriending strangers.
Depending on where you are, progressive (or liberal, or leftist) values might not be particularly niche, and plenty of people would not consider it a "shared interest" specific enough for an inherent friendship connection. Depending on what city you're in in particular, crying alone in public can be considered sort of a private act — in NYC and Chicago, plenty of us would consider it polite and correct to give someone some privacy in that circumstance. I am an outgoing person and make friends pretty easily, and I would not approach a random person at a protest who was crying, let alone assume that they were crying due to social isolation and that they probably want me to say something so we can strike up a friendship. I might guess that they were crying about the atrocity we were protesting, and that a white person walking up and saying "what's wrong?" would be gauche at best and ignorant and insulting at worst.
I am sorry that you are struggling socially. I think you are telling yourself a story that "everyone is being friends without me," and that's really painful — and it's not true. I am sure racism both overt and subtle are factoring in here, because that's the fallen world we live in. And I am also sure that people of every single walk of life experience loneliness.
posted by Charity Garfein at 2:20 PM on May 30 [19 favorites]
Depending on where you are, progressive (or liberal, or leftist) values might not be particularly niche, and plenty of people would not consider it a "shared interest" specific enough for an inherent friendship connection. Depending on what city you're in in particular, crying alone in public can be considered sort of a private act — in NYC and Chicago, plenty of us would consider it polite and correct to give someone some privacy in that circumstance. I am an outgoing person and make friends pretty easily, and I would not approach a random person at a protest who was crying, let alone assume that they were crying due to social isolation and that they probably want me to say something so we can strike up a friendship. I might guess that they were crying about the atrocity we were protesting, and that a white person walking up and saying "what's wrong?" would be gauche at best and ignorant and insulting at worst.
I am sorry that you are struggling socially. I think you are telling yourself a story that "everyone is being friends without me," and that's really painful — and it's not true. I am sure racism both overt and subtle are factoring in here, because that's the fallen world we live in. And I am also sure that people of every single walk of life experience loneliness.
posted by Charity Garfein at 2:20 PM on May 30 [19 favorites]
Making friends as an adult is hard, there's no question about that. And your calculus sounds like, "I'm anti-racist. There are white people who are anti-racist. Why don't they want to be friends?" And also "Brown people who are not explicitly anti-racist DO want to be my friend." So my question is, if you're looking for friends, why not be friends with the people who want to be friends with you? They may not be participating in leftist circles, but maybe you have other things in common? Or do they have politics that you disagree with? That seems like an easier pathway (people who express that they want to be friends vs people who don't).
I was thinking something similar to what nouvelle-personne said – I'm getting a slight sense that you may be seeking validation and acceptance from white people? Being a racial minority in the US is no picnic, so I'm wondering if you feel like being friends/validated by white people will help you feel safer in the US somehow?
>as evidenced by the things they post on social media and the chants they make at the concerts and parties
I'm going to push back gently on this. To me, this isn't evidence that they're anti-racist. Instead this shows that they're interested in a certain cause, and they like posting on social media and chanting certain things at concerts and parties. So, I do see this a little bit as performative, like stormyteal said.
>only socialize with their white friends
This tells me more about who these particular white people are, rather than their social media postings and chanting. Anyone can post to SM and chant. Actually making friends with people that have different life experiences with you? That's something different entirely.
Any chance there are political BIPOC where you are? That's where I'd look to make friends, in addition to any non-political hobbies you have.
In case you're wondering, I'm a 2nd gen Chinese Canadian woman in my 40s who has spent time in leftist circles long ago (with white ppl and BIPOC) and got tired of the politics and policing that happens. This video illustrates it pretty well (I've found this to be true! Not this exact example, but the spirit of it)
posted by foxjacket at 3:39 PM on May 30 [4 favorites]
I was thinking something similar to what nouvelle-personne said – I'm getting a slight sense that you may be seeking validation and acceptance from white people? Being a racial minority in the US is no picnic, so I'm wondering if you feel like being friends/validated by white people will help you feel safer in the US somehow?
>as evidenced by the things they post on social media and the chants they make at the concerts and parties
I'm going to push back gently on this. To me, this isn't evidence that they're anti-racist. Instead this shows that they're interested in a certain cause, and they like posting on social media and chanting certain things at concerts and parties. So, I do see this a little bit as performative, like stormyteal said.
>only socialize with their white friends
This tells me more about who these particular white people are, rather than their social media postings and chanting. Anyone can post to SM and chant. Actually making friends with people that have different life experiences with you? That's something different entirely.
Any chance there are political BIPOC where you are? That's where I'd look to make friends, in addition to any non-political hobbies you have.
In case you're wondering, I'm a 2nd gen Chinese Canadian woman in my 40s who has spent time in leftist circles long ago (with white ppl and BIPOC) and got tired of the politics and policing that happens. This video illustrates it pretty well (I've found this to be true! Not this exact example, but the spirit of it)
posted by foxjacket at 3:39 PM on May 30 [4 favorites]
"And why is seemingly every white person in my city like this?"
Any chance you live in Seattle? If you do, that's the "Seattle Freeze"
Omg yes. I was thinking the same thing. It’s very dominant even though there are so many imports in Seattle these days. And the neighborhoods where people aren’t so uptight - they’re the lower income neighborhoods where immigrants live. More community. Better grocery stores and restaurants. White people are fucking uptight, and I say this as an uptight white person.
posted by bq at 8:09 PM on May 30 [2 favorites]
Any chance you live in Seattle? If you do, that's the "Seattle Freeze"
Omg yes. I was thinking the same thing. It’s very dominant even though there are so many imports in Seattle these days. And the neighborhoods where people aren’t so uptight - they’re the lower income neighborhoods where immigrants live. More community. Better grocery stores and restaurants. White people are fucking uptight, and I say this as an uptight white person.
posted by bq at 8:09 PM on May 30 [2 favorites]
But I wouldn't necessarily lean on politics or race as a foot-in-the-door to friendship with anyone - as trite as it sounds, I'd focus more on whether you have anything else in common.
I can't imagine becoming very close friends with someone who didn't share my values, and their take on politics is a big part of that. I also think this is perhaps more important as a person of color. If you're a lefty person of color in the US, what does it mean to be friends with a white conservative in this moment? Eesh.
posted by bluedaisy at 9:04 PM on May 30 [3 favorites]
I can't imagine becoming very close friends with someone who didn't share my values, and their take on politics is a big part of that. I also think this is perhaps more important as a person of color. If you're a lefty person of color in the US, what does it mean to be friends with a white conservative in this moment? Eesh.
posted by bluedaisy at 9:04 PM on May 30 [3 favorites]
I can't imagine becoming very close friends with someone who didn't share my values, and their take on politics is a big part of that. I also think this is perhaps more important as a person of color.
To re-direct: I don't think anyone is saying that politics isn't an important aspect of "how to become friends" - I think we're only saying that it can't be the only aspect, and it feels like the OP is treating it like it is the only aspect.
And adding that I get the sense, OP, that you are sensing that some self-proclaimed non-racists may talk a big game about "not being racist" but then hold a person of color at arms' length. I have no doubt this happens, actually; as for "why", all I can think to say is "well, some people are just shits". I mean, you have people on the right also protesting that they're not racist even though they're voting for Trump or opposing critical race theory teaching; all I can say is that with some people, their understanding of What It Means To Be Racist isn't very nuanced, and when they say "I'm not a racist" that on some level they just mean "I don't think people of color should be slaves or anything, obviously - but that's not happening, so what's the problem?".
And if you think about it - would you actually want to be friends with someone like that? Probably not.
So that's maybe why so many people are suggesting focusing more on the shared interests angle over the politics angle, because politics can be a bit of a crude yardstick. It's probably easier to find three liberals among the Copper-Plating Meetup group you join than it would be to find the one copper-plating enthusiast among the political meetup.
Although - if politics are an interest for you in and of itself, that's of course something to treat as an interest to pursue. Join an activist action in your area - voter canvassing, poll taking, some kind of civic action. My gut is also suggesting to think local - like, go for the campaign for the mayoral candidate rather than the presidential one, or join the movement to save the local teen center as opposed to the Amnesty International chapter. But whatever it is you are passionate about, look into that.
But that just brings things back to my original point - people would then be learning what you're passionate about. That's the stuff that would draw people to you. I mean - you and Kanye West are both people of color, and I bet there's a LOT of differences between you and Kanye. People are going to want to know about those other things. And you wouldn't want to be friends with someone who saw you and Kanye as interchangeable anyway, right?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:22 AM on May 31
To re-direct: I don't think anyone is saying that politics isn't an important aspect of "how to become friends" - I think we're only saying that it can't be the only aspect, and it feels like the OP is treating it like it is the only aspect.
And adding that I get the sense, OP, that you are sensing that some self-proclaimed non-racists may talk a big game about "not being racist" but then hold a person of color at arms' length. I have no doubt this happens, actually; as for "why", all I can think to say is "well, some people are just shits". I mean, you have people on the right also protesting that they're not racist even though they're voting for Trump or opposing critical race theory teaching; all I can say is that with some people, their understanding of What It Means To Be Racist isn't very nuanced, and when they say "I'm not a racist" that on some level they just mean "I don't think people of color should be slaves or anything, obviously - but that's not happening, so what's the problem?".
And if you think about it - would you actually want to be friends with someone like that? Probably not.
So that's maybe why so many people are suggesting focusing more on the shared interests angle over the politics angle, because politics can be a bit of a crude yardstick. It's probably easier to find three liberals among the Copper-Plating Meetup group you join than it would be to find the one copper-plating enthusiast among the political meetup.
Although - if politics are an interest for you in and of itself, that's of course something to treat as an interest to pursue. Join an activist action in your area - voter canvassing, poll taking, some kind of civic action. My gut is also suggesting to think local - like, go for the campaign for the mayoral candidate rather than the presidential one, or join the movement to save the local teen center as opposed to the Amnesty International chapter. But whatever it is you are passionate about, look into that.
But that just brings things back to my original point - people would then be learning what you're passionate about. That's the stuff that would draw people to you. I mean - you and Kanye West are both people of color, and I bet there's a LOT of differences between you and Kanye. People are going to want to know about those other things. And you wouldn't want to be friends with someone who saw you and Kanye as interchangeable anyway, right?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:22 AM on May 31
I think a lot of white people who are anti-racist are sometimes anti-racist more on a theoretical or intellectual level, but still can be harboring racism and prejudice on an emotional level if they have notengaged with/worked on that part of themselves, formed emotional bonds with people of color, etc.
posted by bearette at 4:08 AM on May 31 [3 favorites]
posted by bearette at 4:08 AM on May 31 [3 favorites]
I agree with what is being said about social media activities not being reflecting of that person's actual political engagements.
If we look at it in a charitable way, maybe their anti racist activities are focused on tackling systemic causes through direct action. They may not necessarily be going into these events looking to spend deep quality time bonding with one person. They're focused on the strategy and the end goal.
If I saw someone crying in the corner I might ask them if they were okay and if they needed anything. But it wouldn't strike me as an invitation to friendship. I think you need to build and nurture friendships when you're in a positive state of mind. Then you've got the connections that will.be there for you in the hard times.
posted by winterportage at 8:04 AM on May 31
If we look at it in a charitable way, maybe their anti racist activities are focused on tackling systemic causes through direct action. They may not necessarily be going into these events looking to spend deep quality time bonding with one person. They're focused on the strategy and the end goal.
If I saw someone crying in the corner I might ask them if they were okay and if they needed anything. But it wouldn't strike me as an invitation to friendship. I think you need to build and nurture friendships when you're in a positive state of mind. Then you've got the connections that will.be there for you in the hard times.
posted by winterportage at 8:04 AM on May 31
It could be because European Imperialism never actually ended the caste system, which may explain why so many "well meaning" white liberals fail to actually emulate anti-racism practice in their day-to-day living such that they can confidently converse across the racial spectrum without relying on each other as emotional safety zones. A lot of it is still in the blood, so to speak.
That's why in practice [many] don't care if you're a brown person sitting in public evidently suffering (and by evident, I do mean evident to other non-white people, just not "white" people because of the epidermal veiling). [Many] don't care if you're being repeatedly targeted by white caste members of the population for assault, homelessness, etc. [Many] don't care if you've overcome tremendous adversity worthy of Hollywood-level proportions. Because it's intrinsically built into their nature not to.
And why don't they care? Because just as their Old World caste system(s) predict, intuitively they know their tolerance of the ambient racial violence links tightly to their level of privilege and comfort. If they stop to actually help you, that means they might have to put themselves at Real World risk. Who knows, maybe they will even wind up as pathetic as a homeless assaulted brown person who has no better place to go or things to do than to sit and cry about their pain in public. North American Euro-Settler diaspora* quite literally benefit at everyone else's expense, and if you're going to come along while brown, you had better not rock that fragile snowflake-laden boat.
*This phenomenon is by no means facilitated by Euro-Settler diaspora alone; it's just that 500 years of European Imperialism has propelled these particular populations to the front of the Human Race, so to speak.
On a lighter note (because that's where it always has to go, amiwh*te?), I strongly agree about connecting with people on the basis of how they interact with others around them -- rather than their superficially stated desired self-view, as Walking the Talk just doesn't come naturally for most at that caste level.
posted by human ecologist at 9:56 AM on May 31 [2 favorites]
That's why in practice [many] don't care if you're a brown person sitting in public evidently suffering (and by evident, I do mean evident to other non-white people, just not "white" people because of the epidermal veiling). [Many] don't care if you're being repeatedly targeted by white caste members of the population for assault, homelessness, etc. [Many] don't care if you've overcome tremendous adversity worthy of Hollywood-level proportions. Because it's intrinsically built into their nature not to.
And why don't they care? Because just as their Old World caste system(s) predict, intuitively they know their tolerance of the ambient racial violence links tightly to their level of privilege and comfort. If they stop to actually help you, that means they might have to put themselves at Real World risk. Who knows, maybe they will even wind up as pathetic as a homeless assaulted brown person who has no better place to go or things to do than to sit and cry about their pain in public. North American Euro-Settler diaspora* quite literally benefit at everyone else's expense, and if you're going to come along while brown, you had better not rock that fragile snowflake-laden boat.
*This phenomenon is by no means facilitated by Euro-Settler diaspora alone; it's just that 500 years of European Imperialism has propelled these particular populations to the front of the Human Race, so to speak.
On a lighter note (because that's where it always has to go, amiwh*te?), I strongly agree about connecting with people on the basis of how they interact with others around them -- rather than their superficially stated desired self-view, as Walking the Talk just doesn't come naturally for most at that caste level.
posted by human ecologist at 9:56 AM on May 31 [2 favorites]
Social segregation is a reality of American life that varies by region (I'm a lifelong red stater) but not necessarily by expressed political affiliation. I'm a minority with interests that put me in majority white spaces and in my de facto segregated H.S. I thought once I graduated that things would be *different*, but throughout my life I have found that my closest social and romantic relationships were with other people similar to myself and my family - racial minorities (of various kinds) that have interests that put them in majority white spaces and have a level of assimilation into "mainstream" American culture. I've actually found that this is a perfectly acceptable way to conduct a social life and appreciate that there are things about race in America (and as a result politics) that I either don't have to explain to them, or don't have to start from square one when explaining, and it turns out we all like Depeche Mode.
TL;DR We out here
posted by Selena777 at 10:08 AM on May 31 [3 favorites]
TL;DR We out here
posted by Selena777 at 10:08 AM on May 31 [3 favorites]
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I'm sorry you've not been loved or appreciated as well as you should.
I live in Chicago, it's very segregated here. Property values follow that in about the way you'd expect them to. I hear people bemoan the impossibility and expense of homeownership in this city, but will they even consider an address with an S on it instead of an N, even when that would cut housing costs in literal half? Oh but they'll post about their liberal virtues all day long on social media. Very cozy to say when the cops aren't hassling your neighbors.
I'm much less annoyed, personally, being in intentionally brown, queer, or local community service spaces rather intentionally "liberal" spaces. Folks can talk about the importance of civil rights all they want, that is super and great. But when it's the human body someone lives in, those civil rights become a lot more self evident. When it's part of the fabric of the world you live in, you don't have to holler about it so much.
posted by phunniemee at 10:43 AM on May 30 [23 favorites]