How to emotionally handle Covid risk
October 18, 2023 5:39 AM Subscribe
My wife and I are both on the early side of middle age, both recently vaccinated. We are attending a screening in a theater of our friend's movie. We have very different ideas about safety. I'm overly cautious and she has had Covid and no longer wants to wear a mask.
I don't feel right telling her to stay home but because of past trauma and issues of feeling unsafe, I aim overrun with worried emotions. Any thoughts on how to handle my fears in the moment so I can try and enjoy the evening out. And not ruin my decades-old marriage.
Please no comments on whether masking is a good idea or not. That decision has been made.
I don't feel right telling her to stay home but because of past trauma and issues of feeling unsafe, I aim overrun with worried emotions. Any thoughts on how to handle my fears in the moment so I can try and enjoy the evening out. And not ruin my decades-old marriage.
Please no comments on whether masking is a good idea or not. That decision has been made.
Response by poster: I'm concerned that she will get sick, of course. And then in turn, will get me sick. But mostly I just want some in-the-moment strategies for not being overrun with worry.
posted by captainscared at 5:52 AM on October 18, 2023
posted by captainscared at 5:52 AM on October 18, 2023
5mg of valium
posted by phunniemee at 5:54 AM on October 18, 2023 [34 favorites]
posted by phunniemee at 5:54 AM on October 18, 2023 [34 favorites]
I'm sorry - this stuff is hard to navigate when your risk tolerances are really different. I think with the decisions about going out and her masking made, it's best to just focus on what you can influence. You can wear the most protective mask you have, if you have multiple kinds of masks for different risk scenarios. You can quarantine at home, or even quarantine at a hotel, for a few days, to minimize the chances that if she gets sick she then passes it on to you. If you haven't already had a new booster and are eligible for one, you can get that done ASAP and encourage her to do the same.
You can figure out what you would need to be as safe and comfortable at home as you can be if one or both of you became ill, and get yourself stocked up ahead of time - symptom relieving meds, home tests, notes on how to contact a doctor for a Paxlovid prescription, etc.
And then as much as possible, and I know this isn't easy to do! My brain lives in the anxiety place too! But as much as possible, you just have to go do the thing you've decided to do, remind yourself as needed that you've taken the precautions you can and have a plan for if you get sick, and there's no more good that worrying is going to do for you in the moment. If you have things you usually do for anxiety - mindful breathing? Anxiety meds? - apply them liberally here.
Fingers crossed that you both have a good time, and stay safe and healthy.
posted by Stacey at 5:55 AM on October 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
You can figure out what you would need to be as safe and comfortable at home as you can be if one or both of you became ill, and get yourself stocked up ahead of time - symptom relieving meds, home tests, notes on how to contact a doctor for a Paxlovid prescription, etc.
And then as much as possible, and I know this isn't easy to do! My brain lives in the anxiety place too! But as much as possible, you just have to go do the thing you've decided to do, remind yourself as needed that you've taken the precautions you can and have a plan for if you get sick, and there's no more good that worrying is going to do for you in the moment. If you have things you usually do for anxiety - mindful breathing? Anxiety meds? - apply them liberally here.
Fingers crossed that you both have a good time, and stay safe and healthy.
posted by Stacey at 5:55 AM on October 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
Best answer: In general terms of handling the fears, it's about putting it in perspective.
You are far more likely to die or get life changing injuries in a road traffic accident than to die or get life changing complications from Covid. I'm not trying to equate the two risks, but pointing out that you probably don't feel the same sense of panic when you both travel in a car even though the risk of serious injury or death is significantly higher.
Purely logically, being in early middle age and vaccinated you are already statistically very unlikely to die from Covid, and almost as unlikely to get any serious long term complications from it. And that's if you get it, and if you haven't already had it unknowingly and built up some natural immunity through that.
None of which is to say that masking isn't a good idea, or that covid is "over" or anything else. And I'm certainly not saying there is no risk. Just that you get to choose how much you worry about this specific risk, and at this point the stats are very much on the side of "there are plenty of things more likely to kill you that you don't worry about half as much".
So if you can keep that thought in your head in the time leading up to the night out, it might help you relax and enjoy the movie.
(Caveat: you don't mention knowing any people with co-morbidities who might be in trouble if you get Covid and pass it on to them, so that's a different question. Likewise, I'm not saying that being blase is a good thing for other people around you. But your question is about how you handle your fears, so I've focused on that)
posted by underclocked at 5:56 AM on October 18, 2023 [33 favorites]
You are far more likely to die or get life changing injuries in a road traffic accident than to die or get life changing complications from Covid. I'm not trying to equate the two risks, but pointing out that you probably don't feel the same sense of panic when you both travel in a car even though the risk of serious injury or death is significantly higher.
Purely logically, being in early middle age and vaccinated you are already statistically very unlikely to die from Covid, and almost as unlikely to get any serious long term complications from it. And that's if you get it, and if you haven't already had it unknowingly and built up some natural immunity through that.
None of which is to say that masking isn't a good idea, or that covid is "over" or anything else. And I'm certainly not saying there is no risk. Just that you get to choose how much you worry about this specific risk, and at this point the stats are very much on the side of "there are plenty of things more likely to kill you that you don't worry about half as much".
So if you can keep that thought in your head in the time leading up to the night out, it might help you relax and enjoy the movie.
(Caveat: you don't mention knowing any people with co-morbidities who might be in trouble if you get Covid and pass it on to them, so that's a different question. Likewise, I'm not saying that being blase is a good thing for other people around you. But your question is about how you handle your fears, so I've focused on that)
posted by underclocked at 5:56 AM on October 18, 2023 [33 favorites]
Wear a mask (or two); if you can, choose a seat at the back or wherever looks safest to you. Leave the screening if it feels terrible.
Advice from late middle aged boostered no-Covid mask wearer who has recently been traveling and notice am often the only masked person in transit: planes, vans, it all. This stranger suggests that you should feel confident about your choice, rest in the sanity of doing what feels best to you.
Have tests ready at home. As phunniemee suggests be prepared to spend time apart during latency and if one of you gets Covid. Have you talked to PCP about Paxlovid? Before trip I had that conversation, mine did not support my bringing a dose with me. Might be worth figuring out if you’re yes/no with your health care provider should it come to that.
posted by xaryts at 5:57 AM on October 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
Advice from late middle aged boostered no-Covid mask wearer who has recently been traveling and notice am often the only masked person in transit: planes, vans, it all. This stranger suggests that you should feel confident about your choice, rest in the sanity of doing what feels best to you.
Have tests ready at home. As phunniemee suggests be prepared to spend time apart during latency and if one of you gets Covid. Have you talked to PCP about Paxlovid? Before trip I had that conversation, mine did not support my bringing a dose with me. Might be worth figuring out if you’re yes/no with your health care provider should it come to that.
posted by xaryts at 5:57 AM on October 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: I think the larger issue is that I just haven't accepted that everyone, including me, will get covid at some point. I've been trying to live as if that's not a reality. And I have to accept that. Also we live in a small apartment with 2 dogs so isolation isn't a great option unfortunately.
posted by captainscared at 6:00 AM on October 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by captainscared at 6:00 AM on October 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
Best answer: Just to echo what others have said, you can only control what is within your control. So wearing a good mask (KN95 equivalent or better) should set your mind at ease. Also, if you feel the air circ is good in the theatre (many public venues have cranked up their HVACs to give better air exchange), that mitigates risk to everyone there, and could be a sense of comfort.
In terms of the chain of transmission worries (your wife getting it and then giving it to you at home where you aren't likely masking), short of actually isolating from one another which may cause more friction, there are a few things you can do to potentially reduce risk which may help your fears:
1) Put the toilet lid down when you flush the toilet - toilet plume is a thing and a potential point of transmission in a shared washroom. Keep your toothbrush and stuff in another room too.
2) Do saline nasal rinses > this isn't necessarily proven, but it is safe to do and good for your sinuses.
3) Practice good hand and respiratory hygiene.
4) If you have access to them, do a daily COVID test and let that put your mind at ease for the remainder of the day.
Another strategy is to give yourself a timeframe to worry within. Even though COVID can incubate for up to 14 days before you show symptoms, the median (last I read) is within 5 days. So let yourself be a bit worried for those 5 days, and then consider yourselves in the clear.
At the end of the day, it's a virus, and it's good at what viruses do. And if you or your wife get it, try not to ascribe fault to it. Just be kind to yourselves.
posted by eekernohan at 6:17 AM on October 18, 2023 [8 favorites]
In terms of the chain of transmission worries (your wife getting it and then giving it to you at home where you aren't likely masking), short of actually isolating from one another which may cause more friction, there are a few things you can do to potentially reduce risk which may help your fears:
1) Put the toilet lid down when you flush the toilet - toilet plume is a thing and a potential point of transmission in a shared washroom. Keep your toothbrush and stuff in another room too.
2) Do saline nasal rinses > this isn't necessarily proven, but it is safe to do and good for your sinuses.
3) Practice good hand and respiratory hygiene.
4) If you have access to them, do a daily COVID test and let that put your mind at ease for the remainder of the day.
Another strategy is to give yourself a timeframe to worry within. Even though COVID can incubate for up to 14 days before you show symptoms, the median (last I read) is within 5 days. So let yourself be a bit worried for those 5 days, and then consider yourselves in the clear.
At the end of the day, it's a virus, and it's good at what viruses do. And if you or your wife get it, try not to ascribe fault to it. Just be kind to yourselves.
posted by eekernohan at 6:17 AM on October 18, 2023 [8 favorites]
Best answer: For perspective: There's a communicable disease that kills tens of thousands of people in the US annually and temporarily incapacitates many times more. But I'm guessing that before 2020, you went to people's houses and enjoyed yourself without worrying too much about the flu. I don't know if Covid is quite down to the flu level of risk, but it's definitely getting to be similar.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 6:21 AM on October 18, 2023 [23 favorites]
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 6:21 AM on October 18, 2023 [23 favorites]
Disease is not new, this specific disease and the ensuing years of panic, media onslaught and politicization are. Absolutely some of that was merited -- some of it was not.
By all means, mitigate risks to the degree that you feel is prudent! Find your comfort level with masks/vaccines/seatbelts/helmets/etc. That said, your overall risk of serious injury/death when you go out and do things in the world these days is not significantly different than it was before COVID was a thing.
posted by so fucking future at 6:38 AM on October 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
By all means, mitigate risks to the degree that you feel is prudent! Find your comfort level with masks/vaccines/seatbelts/helmets/etc. That said, your overall risk of serious injury/death when you go out and do things in the world these days is not significantly different than it was before COVID was a thing.
posted by so fucking future at 6:38 AM on October 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
I'm in a similar except we both had covid once. Since I'm concerned about long covid, having had covid before doesn't give me any comfort.
My partner has a right to make their own decision, and I'm unhappy that they won't wear a mask sometimes when I think there is risk, and I accept that I feel that way. So that's how I deal with the feeling toward my partner. It's taken me a while to get there.
For anxiety or fear of covid, I think about the fact that while the consequences of getting covid range from very low to very high, the current likelihood of getting it is actually quite low. There are many large gatherings now and it appears we aren't having superspreader events the way we used to. There is no guarantee that you won't get it, but there's not currently a high likelihood that you will. At least where I live. So that's how I reduce anxiety about being unable to control the risk my partner chooses to engage in by not masking and the risk I engage in by sharing a home with them.
I pick and choose when to pressure or ask my partner to mask, based on what current data I can find (I feel that wastewater data is the most believable), and what I observe with coworkers, friends, and family, how many of them are getting covid. When the numbers tick up, I get more assertive about it. When they are lower, I allow that the risk is lower, and I don't pressure my partner. I do explain this to them so they can see that there are times that I feel better about the risk.
This also allows me some space to be in public without wearing a mask myself, when numbers are very low. This may not be for you, but it has worked well for me.
Then I also have a plan ready for if one of us gets it again. This includes Paxlovid, a list of fluids to get, quarantining from each other to the extent possible, setting up multiple air purifiers, etc.
posted by happy_cat at 6:39 AM on October 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
My partner has a right to make their own decision, and I'm unhappy that they won't wear a mask sometimes when I think there is risk, and I accept that I feel that way. So that's how I deal with the feeling toward my partner. It's taken me a while to get there.
For anxiety or fear of covid, I think about the fact that while the consequences of getting covid range from very low to very high, the current likelihood of getting it is actually quite low. There are many large gatherings now and it appears we aren't having superspreader events the way we used to. There is no guarantee that you won't get it, but there's not currently a high likelihood that you will. At least where I live. So that's how I reduce anxiety about being unable to control the risk my partner chooses to engage in by not masking and the risk I engage in by sharing a home with them.
I pick and choose when to pressure or ask my partner to mask, based on what current data I can find (I feel that wastewater data is the most believable), and what I observe with coworkers, friends, and family, how many of them are getting covid. When the numbers tick up, I get more assertive about it. When they are lower, I allow that the risk is lower, and I don't pressure my partner. I do explain this to them so they can see that there are times that I feel better about the risk.
This also allows me some space to be in public without wearing a mask myself, when numbers are very low. This may not be for you, but it has worked well for me.
Then I also have a plan ready for if one of us gets it again. This includes Paxlovid, a list of fluids to get, quarantining from each other to the extent possible, setting up multiple air purifiers, etc.
posted by happy_cat at 6:39 AM on October 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
You should write down your fears. It sounds a little like they're really cycling in you and doing some writing about it would help you, particularly before you speak.
I also truly do not want to get COVID ever again, and I think COVID is very serious, and yet I ride busy trains and work in an office every day. I emotionally reconcile that and reduce anxiety by exposure. People I know who have chosen near-zero exposure — who won't go to stores, etc. — can sometimes magnify their risk, I think, and get confused around what is high risk (such as being inside with sick people in non-ventilated spaces) with what is lower risk. It's also very hard to assess prevalence of and risk from a virus.
As for the "not ruining your marriage" part of the question: my experience is that you should have the conversation about this once, fully, together, patiently, then not again for a while. The stuff that comes up over and over again and is unresolved is what tears at a marriage. You have different risk assessments and those will change over the years for each of you but they won't ever likely be in true sync.
posted by RJ Reynolds at 6:40 AM on October 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
I also truly do not want to get COVID ever again, and I think COVID is very serious, and yet I ride busy trains and work in an office every day. I emotionally reconcile that and reduce anxiety by exposure. People I know who have chosen near-zero exposure — who won't go to stores, etc. — can sometimes magnify their risk, I think, and get confused around what is high risk (such as being inside with sick people in non-ventilated spaces) with what is lower risk. It's also very hard to assess prevalence of and risk from a virus.
As for the "not ruining your marriage" part of the question: my experience is that you should have the conversation about this once, fully, together, patiently, then not again for a while. The stuff that comes up over and over again and is unresolved is what tears at a marriage. You have different risk assessments and those will change over the years for each of you but they won't ever likely be in true sync.
posted by RJ Reynolds at 6:40 AM on October 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
5mg of valium
More specifically, I would say that if something is causing you intense anxiety, that alone makes it worth accessing medical help. That might include a short term prescription for one of the anti-anxiety meds (Xanax, Valium, etc.), longer-term medication options, and/or working with a therapist.
Personally, I've found doctors to be very willing to prescribe for something like this, but unfortunately it's a YMMV situation since doctors have different approaches, plus not everyone is in a situation with good medical access.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:41 AM on October 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
More specifically, I would say that if something is causing you intense anxiety, that alone makes it worth accessing medical help. That might include a short term prescription for one of the anti-anxiety meds (Xanax, Valium, etc.), longer-term medication options, and/or working with a therapist.
Personally, I've found doctors to be very willing to prescribe for something like this, but unfortunately it's a YMMV situation since doctors have different approaches, plus not everyone is in a situation with good medical access.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:41 AM on October 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
If she has had covid within the last few weeks she's probably at low risk of contracting it again. But if it was ages ago, she's unlikely to have any immunity to it at this point.
posted by Kurichina at 7:00 AM on October 18, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by Kurichina at 7:00 AM on October 18, 2023 [6 favorites]
I think a lot of the mainstream news these days about COVID is fairly reassuring. People have higher immunity, symptoms are much lighter, etc. Example. It's certainly possible to find much more doom and gloom positioned stories, but a lot of the news that's out there suggests that someone in your position is actually at pretty low risk of terrible things happening to you even if you get COVID. Perhaps if you read some of those stories you would find it calms some of your anxiety?
Personally, I have always assumed that if I got COVID I was gonna get COVID BAD. It wasn't enough to make me super cautious in light of how much I dislike wearing a mask, but it was always a source of worry for me. And then I got COVID two weeks ago and it was only mildly inconvenient. I started taking Pavloxid on day 5, and other than about 2 hours of intense chills on day 1, the side effects of Pavloxid were noticeably worse than the symptoms of COVID.
posted by jacquilynne at 7:07 AM on October 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
Personally, I have always assumed that if I got COVID I was gonna get COVID BAD. It wasn't enough to make me super cautious in light of how much I dislike wearing a mask, but it was always a source of worry for me. And then I got COVID two weeks ago and it was only mildly inconvenient. I started taking Pavloxid on day 5, and other than about 2 hours of intense chills on day 1, the side effects of Pavloxid were noticeably worse than the symptoms of COVID.
posted by jacquilynne at 7:07 AM on October 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
If I were in this situation, what would make me feel better is having a plan to still mitigate risk. This could include things like: agreeing that we will try to sit a bit isolated or move seats if someone has visible symptoms near us, having a plan for us both to test every day for a week or so afterward and to monitor potential symptoms extra close, being prepared for isolation and illness should it occur (eg already know hotel rates since you can’t isolate at home, being stocked with medicine, etc).
It may be reassuring to keep an eye on local wastewater data (the only reliable info we have anymore for current infections), but it may also be the opposite, so ymmv.
posted by CtrlAltDelete at 7:16 AM on October 18, 2023
It may be reassuring to keep an eye on local wastewater data (the only reliable info we have anymore for current infections), but it may also be the opposite, so ymmv.
posted by CtrlAltDelete at 7:16 AM on October 18, 2023
Do you have a CO2 monitor? Some libraries have them. If it IS well ventilated, proving that to yourself could really help.
posted by slidell at 7:49 AM on October 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by slidell at 7:49 AM on October 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
If you're taking a car to get there, you're running a greater risk of death or serious injury on the way to the theater than in it. I'm not saying this to say that you are wrong to be concerned about exposure, I'm saying this to say that many of us formulated our instinctive sense of how much to weight COVID risk as against all other risks and as against the benefits of activities that might lead to exposure in the terrifying period where we had no treatments, no natural immunity, and little understanding of who might be particularly vulnerable to bad outcomes. I don't know how to get over that besides "exposure," meaning choosing to go to high-value events where there is that risk and showing your brain that you're not actually going to die, even if you do catch it, and reminding it of what you're giving up when you're religious about avoiding any potential exposure.
If she has had covid within the last few weeks she's probably at low risk of contracting it again. But if it was ages ago, she's unlikely to have any immunity to it at this point.
(a) She was recently vaccinated.
(b) While antibodies drop off several months after exposure, B-cell response persists. We don't start de novo every time!
having a plan for us both to test every day for a week or so afterward
Rapid tests are not reliable in the absence of symptoms--about as accurate as a coin toss.
posted by praemunire at 7:50 AM on October 18, 2023 [6 favorites]
If she has had covid within the last few weeks she's probably at low risk of contracting it again. But if it was ages ago, she's unlikely to have any immunity to it at this point.
(a) She was recently vaccinated.
(b) While antibodies drop off several months after exposure, B-cell response persists. We don't start de novo every time!
having a plan for us both to test every day for a week or so afterward
Rapid tests are not reliable in the absence of symptoms--about as accurate as a coin toss.
posted by praemunire at 7:50 AM on October 18, 2023 [6 favorites]
I fall roughly where you are on the caution scale, though this is easier for us to negotiate because my husband is on medication that means all the vaccines - and he's had all the ones we've been allowed plus one extra because of this - maybe don't do jack shit, nobody knows!
There's not really anything you can do about the issue that your partner's disinterest in masking takes precedence over concern for your health, or their own*. That sucks, but the fact is all relationships have mismatches in standards for lifestyle factors, safety, financial prudence, "hold my beer"-style risk-taking, and at some point you have to just decide which of those things is a part of living a life and which are dealbreakers and take action accordingly.
Here's where you split the difference: you ask your partner to at least participate in other risk-mitigation behaviors as a compromise, so that you are reducing potential viral load. Don't sit in the middle of the theatre surrounded by people, stay back and on an aisle. Agree you will leave or move if there is someone too close to you with potential symptoms. Buy a portable CO2 meter and leave if it indicates subpar ventilation.
If they also won't agree to any of that, you may have an unfixable problem. But hopefully this is something they can understand and agree with because it's not too uncomfortable.
For what it's worth, my husband and I recently did some big math and spent a weekend in NYC and went to two shows. We mitigated as best we could but it was far from perfect and some of those decisions were aesthetic - it was raining, I wanted to eat inside, though we tried to do so at off hours so it wasn't so crowded - and if we got COVID it was completely asymptomatic in both of us and I just feel that is highly unlikely.
But it was the risk we chose, which I think makes a difference. Can you reframe this as a choice you are making with understood risks that you are mitigating to the best of your ability and yes it's complicated but you're willing to personally take on that risk in this situation? If so, it's okay to allow that to be empowerment.
(It's also okay to not make that choice very often. Just because we didn't get sick this time doesn't mean we're out licking doorknobs now. We're back to largely isolating and avoiding crowded spaces.)
*All these people evangelizing that they got COVID and are "fine" make no more sense than me saying I quit smoking 10 years ago so I won't get lung cancer. We've barely figured out the first thing about chicken pox, Creuzfeldt-Jacob, mononucleosis, and many more decades-old health concerns, there's miles to go before anybody gets to say getting COVID was consequence-free.
posted by Lyn Never at 7:51 AM on October 18, 2023 [6 favorites]
There's not really anything you can do about the issue that your partner's disinterest in masking takes precedence over concern for your health, or their own*. That sucks, but the fact is all relationships have mismatches in standards for lifestyle factors, safety, financial prudence, "hold my beer"-style risk-taking, and at some point you have to just decide which of those things is a part of living a life and which are dealbreakers and take action accordingly.
Here's where you split the difference: you ask your partner to at least participate in other risk-mitigation behaviors as a compromise, so that you are reducing potential viral load. Don't sit in the middle of the theatre surrounded by people, stay back and on an aisle. Agree you will leave or move if there is someone too close to you with potential symptoms. Buy a portable CO2 meter and leave if it indicates subpar ventilation.
If they also won't agree to any of that, you may have an unfixable problem. But hopefully this is something they can understand and agree with because it's not too uncomfortable.
For what it's worth, my husband and I recently did some big math and spent a weekend in NYC and went to two shows. We mitigated as best we could but it was far from perfect and some of those decisions were aesthetic - it was raining, I wanted to eat inside, though we tried to do so at off hours so it wasn't so crowded - and if we got COVID it was completely asymptomatic in both of us and I just feel that is highly unlikely.
But it was the risk we chose, which I think makes a difference. Can you reframe this as a choice you are making with understood risks that you are mitigating to the best of your ability and yes it's complicated but you're willing to personally take on that risk in this situation? If so, it's okay to allow that to be empowerment.
(It's also okay to not make that choice very often. Just because we didn't get sick this time doesn't mean we're out licking doorknobs now. We're back to largely isolating and avoiding crowded spaces.)
*All these people evangelizing that they got COVID and are "fine" make no more sense than me saying I quit smoking 10 years ago so I won't get lung cancer. We've barely figured out the first thing about chicken pox, Creuzfeldt-Jacob, mononucleosis, and many more decades-old health concerns, there's miles to go before anybody gets to say getting COVID was consequence-free.
posted by Lyn Never at 7:51 AM on October 18, 2023 [6 favorites]
Best answer: I'm a person at high risk from COVID. I haven't had it yet. But I have two young children in ancient school buildings, so it's just a matter of time. One the one hand, the discourse around COVID risk makes me really sad and is ablelist and ageist and not particularly logical and frequently mean. One the other hand I gotta live my life within reason.
So what I've found most helpful is to focus on what I will do if (when) I or a household member DOES test positive. We have it written up in a document in case we're not thinking clearly and have reviewed it with my doctors.
We have high quality masks and CONWAY air purifiers on hand. I have spoken to my doctor and will be prescribed Paxalovid and Metformin immediately-- in fact I have the Paxalovid at home already. And perhaps most importantly, I plan to rest, and then rest some more including when I feel like I'm starting to get better. (A privilege, I know.)
It doesn't remove all the fear, but it gives me enough of a sense of control that I can function. Perhaps you already have a plan like this but if not, it might be helpful. Wishing you luck and health and happiness!
posted by jeszac at 8:04 AM on October 18, 2023 [18 favorites]
So what I've found most helpful is to focus on what I will do if (when) I or a household member DOES test positive. We have it written up in a document in case we're not thinking clearly and have reviewed it with my doctors.
We have high quality masks and CONWAY air purifiers on hand. I have spoken to my doctor and will be prescribed Paxalovid and Metformin immediately-- in fact I have the Paxalovid at home already. And perhaps most importantly, I plan to rest, and then rest some more including when I feel like I'm starting to get better. (A privilege, I know.)
It doesn't remove all the fear, but it gives me enough of a sense of control that I can function. Perhaps you already have a plan like this but if not, it might be helpful. Wishing you luck and health and happiness!
posted by jeszac at 8:04 AM on October 18, 2023 [18 favorites]
You are far more likely to die or get life changing injuries in a road traffic accident than to die or get life changing complications from Covid.Even in the United States, this doesn’t seem to be true most of the time for a person with average risk from both activities.
About 800 people per week die in motor vehicle crashes in the US. Meanwhile, last month about 1200 people per week died of COVID in the US. (And as recently as January 2023, over 3000 people per week died of COVID in the US.)
In places like Canada and Europe, where motor vehicle death rates are much lower, it is even less true.
posted by mbrubeck at 8:42 AM on October 18, 2023 [12 favorites]
Best answer: Like some people have said here, you should try to talk yourself out of being unreasonably scared. Your marriage is more important than your imaginary fear. Sorry to be blunt but sometimes that helps.
posted by Liquidwolf at 9:05 AM on October 18, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by Liquidwolf at 9:05 AM on October 18, 2023 [6 favorites]
About 800 people per week die in motor vehicle crashes in the US. Meanwhile, last month about 1200 people per week died of COVID in the US. (And as recently as January 2023, over 3000 people per week died of COVID in the US.
The OP is vaccinated. Death rates from COVID are drastically lower for vaccinated people, especially recently vaccinated people. In my state, for those who are 35-64, death rate for unvaccinated people is about 24.7 people/100k population per month, whereas for vaccinated/boosted, it goes down to 3.6 people/100k population per month.
Any comparison of the impact of COVID that doesn't differentiate between vaccinated and unvaccinated is verging on COVID misinformation, in my opinion.
posted by saeculorum at 9:25 AM on October 18, 2023 [12 favorites]
The OP is vaccinated. Death rates from COVID are drastically lower for vaccinated people, especially recently vaccinated people. In my state, for those who are 35-64, death rate for unvaccinated people is about 24.7 people/100k population per month, whereas for vaccinated/boosted, it goes down to 3.6 people/100k population per month.
Any comparison of the impact of COVID that doesn't differentiate between vaccinated and unvaccinated is verging on COVID misinformation, in my opinion.
posted by saeculorum at 9:25 AM on October 18, 2023 [12 favorites]
Response by poster: I think there's a certain level of impossibility when trying to discuss COVID in a reasonable fashion. I think some people just live more cautiously than others and we're like strangers to each other.
posted by captainscared at 10:01 AM on October 18, 2023 [16 favorites]
posted by captainscared at 10:01 AM on October 18, 2023 [16 favorites]
Since this amount of risk is concerning for you, I think you should have a conversation about how, logistically, you will be able to isolate from her for five days after the event. Will she sleep on the couch and take care of the dogs while you stay holed up in a bedroom? Will one of you stay with a friend? Talking through and deciding how you are going to get your risk to a level you find acceptable may help, or she may decide the additional expense and hassle are not worth going without a mask for a few hours.
posted by metasarah at 10:05 AM on October 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by metasarah at 10:05 AM on October 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
Very little has changed in our ability to treat this illness since it started.
This is antivax nonsense and science denial. Please stop.
posted by daveliepmann at 10:16 AM on October 18, 2023 [32 favorites]
This is antivax nonsense and science denial. Please stop.
posted by daveliepmann at 10:16 AM on October 18, 2023 [32 favorites]
Lots of couples have different risk profiles. My husband rode a motorcycle for years - and for years before that, I fought him on it. Now he doesn’t again. I’ve driven our kids while sleep-deprived (newborn youngest) even though I kind of knew I shouldn’t and later learned driving while that tired is equivalent to driving drunk. In a marriage that isn’t in a bubble, things do come up.
Even more though, these questions are also about fear. Like, it’s perfectly reasonable for me to fear that my husband will die or be disabled on a motorcycle. But a lot of that is also just general fear of death and disability (and ableism and shit). It’s real, but it also spikes randomly given that living is risky.
Your wife probably is less fearful because she had Covid. That’s human. It may or may not be smart, but it is human.
For me the keys to these differences in when and how we fear and take risks are:
- pick my battles
- share my feelings as feelings, not arguments (“I’m afraid you’ll get a head injury”)
- accept humanness
- seek understanding
- forgive (me and others)
It sounds like you’re in the kind of last phase. Look, it’s not easy to navigate all these norms. I’ve been spit on for wearing a mask. I consider myself reasonably able to be non-confirming to pressure around looks and had a lot of practice in media when people were trying to get me to get Botox etc. and judging my frizzy hair openly. And even so, I’ve run the calculus on not indoor dining at a work event and gone ahead and done it.
I would chalk this one up to some kind of pressure she’s feeling. It would be good to discuss in a few weeks again, just how stressful it’s been and how you both felt and see if you can come to an agreement. You may find she finds she wishes she wore a mask.
posted by warriorqueen at 10:22 AM on October 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
Even more though, these questions are also about fear. Like, it’s perfectly reasonable for me to fear that my husband will die or be disabled on a motorcycle. But a lot of that is also just general fear of death and disability (and ableism and shit). It’s real, but it also spikes randomly given that living is risky.
Your wife probably is less fearful because she had Covid. That’s human. It may or may not be smart, but it is human.
For me the keys to these differences in when and how we fear and take risks are:
- pick my battles
- share my feelings as feelings, not arguments (“I’m afraid you’ll get a head injury”)
- accept humanness
- seek understanding
- forgive (me and others)
It sounds like you’re in the kind of last phase. Look, it’s not easy to navigate all these norms. I’ve been spit on for wearing a mask. I consider myself reasonably able to be non-confirming to pressure around looks and had a lot of practice in media when people were trying to get me to get Botox etc. and judging my frizzy hair openly. And even so, I’ve run the calculus on not indoor dining at a work event and gone ahead and done it.
I would chalk this one up to some kind of pressure she’s feeling. It would be good to discuss in a few weeks again, just how stressful it’s been and how you both felt and see if you can come to an agreement. You may find she finds she wishes she wore a mask.
posted by warriorqueen at 10:22 AM on October 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
Best answer: > I don't feel right telling her to stay home but
Wow, yes, you are very right to worry about ruining your marriage. I've been on the receiving end of a controlling ex-spouse who was driven by his unmanaged anxiety, and even at his worst he would never have *dreamt* of telling me to stay home - an extreme expression of your anxiety that you're just barely resisting.
You sound like you're expressing your worries to your wife in a way that puts pressure on her to change her behavior to make you feel better. Don't do that. This is controlling behavior, and your anxiety is no excuse for controlling her.
Understand that your anxiety is purely your own, and handle it on your own in a way that allows you to stop controlling her choices, at the very least, and hopefully gives you some relief in your own mind as well. The valium (aka doctor's office & anxiety consultation) is an excellent place to begin.
posted by MiraK at 10:29 AM on October 18, 2023 [8 favorites]
Wow, yes, you are very right to worry about ruining your marriage. I've been on the receiving end of a controlling ex-spouse who was driven by his unmanaged anxiety, and even at his worst he would never have *dreamt* of telling me to stay home - an extreme expression of your anxiety that you're just barely resisting.
You sound like you're expressing your worries to your wife in a way that puts pressure on her to change her behavior to make you feel better. Don't do that. This is controlling behavior, and your anxiety is no excuse for controlling her.
Understand that your anxiety is purely your own, and handle it on your own in a way that allows you to stop controlling her choices, at the very least, and hopefully gives you some relief in your own mind as well. The valium (aka doctor's office & anxiety consultation) is an excellent place to begin.
posted by MiraK at 10:29 AM on October 18, 2023 [8 favorites]
If it helps any, the people I know who are getting covid at events seem to be getting it at concerts and I don't know of anyone who went to a theater event (movie or show) and came out with covid. Maybe it's all the yelling.
Beyond that, I'd look into seeing if there's any possible way I can stay out of the house for five days after the event. Apparently she can't be budged in any way, shape or form, and therefore the only way to mitigate anything is to take it upon yourself.
What happened before when she had covid and you didn't get it? Can you do that again?
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:14 AM on October 18, 2023
Beyond that, I'd look into seeing if there's any possible way I can stay out of the house for five days after the event. Apparently she can't be budged in any way, shape or form, and therefore the only way to mitigate anything is to take it upon yourself.
What happened before when she had covid and you didn't get it? Can you do that again?
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:14 AM on October 18, 2023
Response by poster: She tested as soon as she started feeling bad and we isolated immediately. She took the bed I took the couch. Do you think she's being unreasonable not to mask? I feel like I can't make her and any more pushing on my end will only worsen the situation.
posted by captainscared at 12:07 PM on October 18, 2023
posted by captainscared at 12:07 PM on October 18, 2023
There was a time in this pandemic when not masking was categorically unreasonable, but not anymore. It is perfectly reasonable these days to remain unmasked, especially if someone is vaccinated and boosted.
It is also not unreasonable for you to always want to remain masked. At this point in the pandemic, masking in a theater is about personal choice, period. Which means it is exactly as unreasonable for your wife to pressure you to take off your mask, as it is for you to pressure her to wear hers. Respect each other's personal choice fully, without pressuring the other to do as you wish they would, and without holding the other's choices against them in any way. This also means stop talking about it and stop trying to persuade her.
(I speak as someone who still masks religiously everywhere I go, even if I am the only person doing so.)
FWIW her taking the bed and you taking the couch for five days after this might be a good compromise, if you can avoid blaming her for the arrangement and/or making her feel bad about it. You have to endure your self-imposed discomfort which is entirely fair, and she has to endure your absence from the bed which is kind of unfair to her, but it's a pretty reasonable sacrifice you can expect from a spouse.
posted by MiraK at 12:15 PM on October 18, 2023 [8 favorites]
It is also not unreasonable for you to always want to remain masked. At this point in the pandemic, masking in a theater is about personal choice, period. Which means it is exactly as unreasonable for your wife to pressure you to take off your mask, as it is for you to pressure her to wear hers. Respect each other's personal choice fully, without pressuring the other to do as you wish they would, and without holding the other's choices against them in any way. This also means stop talking about it and stop trying to persuade her.
(I speak as someone who still masks religiously everywhere I go, even if I am the only person doing so.)
FWIW her taking the bed and you taking the couch for five days after this might be a good compromise, if you can avoid blaming her for the arrangement and/or making her feel bad about it. You have to endure your self-imposed discomfort which is entirely fair, and she has to endure your absence from the bed which is kind of unfair to her, but it's a pretty reasonable sacrifice you can expect from a spouse.
posted by MiraK at 12:15 PM on October 18, 2023 [8 favorites]
She tested as soon as she started feeling bad and we isolated immediately. She took the bed I took the couch. Do you think she's being unreasonable not to mask?
I can't tell — are you saying she's covid-positive right now?
If not, then she is being completely reasonable to not mask. She's had covid, she's vaccinated to the gills, she's not in any danger. For her to even discuss this with you at this late date is bending over backwards to accommodate your unreasonable request.
posted by daveliepmann at 12:26 PM on October 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
I can't tell — are you saying she's covid-positive right now?
If not, then she is being completely reasonable to not mask. She's had covid, she's vaccinated to the gills, she's not in any danger. For her to even discuss this with you at this late date is bending over backwards to accommodate your unreasonable request.
posted by daveliepmann at 12:26 PM on October 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
Just mildly noting there’s a difference between staying home, and masking and going out.
But OP, this: Do you think she's being unreasonable not to mask? gave me pause. Have you not been out anywhere in the last few while? Where I am, east Toronto and on a university campus, there are occasionally people masking (and there were a few even before the pandemic.) On transit it’s more common than anywhere else.
But it’s still maybe around 5% of people at most. At my work, people do mask to not transmit things, like if they have a scratchy throat, but for the most part masking is mostly over even among people who were highly compliant earlier in the pandemic. So what’s “reasonable” is fuzzy.
My kid has Covid right now, btw. It’s our second round.* I had tachycardia and an afib the first time…but I often do have issues thanks to mono I had at university in the early 90s. It resolved. I’m nervous but not freaked out.
I’m not thrilled with it. We’re all home, luckily our work permits it, so as not to spread it. But I don’t feel like it’s a death sentence either. Fingers crossed, just as my ancestors have had to cross theirs.
I live with kids, and kids mask imperfectly (and overall not much any more) and although in 2020-2021 I was all in favour of lockdowns, they did real damage to my kids’ development. And worse to seniors in my life, who seem to all (without having had Covid) be in bad cognitive and mental health. I am not negating the reality that for those at high risk or immunocompromised, it is a horrible time to be trying to make decisions but…I have to tell you those things go into my calculus.
So for us and I think it’s reasonable, we are choosing to engage in life, often unmasked, sometimes masked, even with this new risk. So yah I think your wife is being reasonable. Is that kind to you though? I don’t know. I hope you both can work it out.
* annoyingly, we would have become eligible for the new booster Oct 30 and held out an extra 3 weeks for it - sigh.
posted by warriorqueen at 2:35 PM on October 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
But OP, this: Do you think she's being unreasonable not to mask? gave me pause. Have you not been out anywhere in the last few while? Where I am, east Toronto and on a university campus, there are occasionally people masking (and there were a few even before the pandemic.) On transit it’s more common than anywhere else.
But it’s still maybe around 5% of people at most. At my work, people do mask to not transmit things, like if they have a scratchy throat, but for the most part masking is mostly over even among people who were highly compliant earlier in the pandemic. So what’s “reasonable” is fuzzy.
My kid has Covid right now, btw. It’s our second round.* I had tachycardia and an afib the first time…but I often do have issues thanks to mono I had at university in the early 90s. It resolved. I’m nervous but not freaked out.
I’m not thrilled with it. We’re all home, luckily our work permits it, so as not to spread it. But I don’t feel like it’s a death sentence either. Fingers crossed, just as my ancestors have had to cross theirs.
I live with kids, and kids mask imperfectly (and overall not much any more) and although in 2020-2021 I was all in favour of lockdowns, they did real damage to my kids’ development. And worse to seniors in my life, who seem to all (without having had Covid) be in bad cognitive and mental health. I am not negating the reality that for those at high risk or immunocompromised, it is a horrible time to be trying to make decisions but…I have to tell you those things go into my calculus.
So for us and I think it’s reasonable, we are choosing to engage in life, often unmasked, sometimes masked, even with this new risk. So yah I think your wife is being reasonable. Is that kind to you though? I don’t know. I hope you both can work it out.
* annoyingly, we would have become eligible for the new booster Oct 30 and held out an extra 3 weeks for it - sigh.
posted by warriorqueen at 2:35 PM on October 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
While estimates vary, it's quite fair to say a middle-of-the-road chance of long covid is roughly 1 in 10 or 20. Those odds are not even in the same building as a car accident, especially with the yearly repeat cases.
posted by Dashy at 2:37 PM on October 18, 2023 [11 favorites]
posted by Dashy at 2:37 PM on October 18, 2023 [11 favorites]
Do you think she's being unreasonable not to mask? I feel like I can't make her and any more pushing on my end will only worsen the situation.
I personally think she could suck it up and mask for a few hours at the theater to make you feel better--she's sitting still, it's not like she has to eat or drink or talk or anything where having a mask on is harder, for godsake--and if I'm around someone who masks or needs to mask more than I do, I will suck it up and wear one, at least indoors these days, because that is a kind thing to do and makes them feel better and everyone is at less risk. But my opinion doesn't matter, only hers does. And she has apparently said no and cannot have her mind changed. That's not on the table for discussion, all we can do is discuss with OP the actions they can take to feel better without the wife having to change her "normal" behavior in any way.
FWIW her taking the bed and you taking the couch for five days after this might be a good compromise,
I agree with this. If she wants to go mask-free for two hours so badly that she would rather follow covid protocols for five days than wear one, and that's something you can negotiate, I'd go with that. If you're taking it upon yourself to isolate from her--taking the couch and leaving her the bedroom--then it's all on you and she doesn't have to change a thing, and hopefully both sides can be reasonably content with that.
I don't think OP is being abusive for not wanting to catch covid, though. I live alone and I would have lost my shit on a roommate/SO if they'd told me they want to go mask free and socialize all the time before, I dunno, this year, and frankly it's only that even I am getting huge mask fatigue after all these years that I'm sometimes going around without one now. I'm thoroughly vaxxed and I still don't want to take the risk of getting it, but also I'm so tired of dealing with The Restaurant Situation of having to take it off to eat/can't get anyone to eat outside/it's too cold or hot to eat outside any more, and so tired of the issues of that coming up with theater in that I'm the only one who cares about not catching it still, that I'm dangerously relaxing my own standards to "fit in" with everyone else. And I assure you, I will beat myself up for the rest of my life for doing that once I get covid, because I will feel like I brought covid upon myself by "relaxing." However, even if sometimes I still have mine off, I'm wearing it in situations like work and attending theater shows that I'm not performing in, because I feel somewhat better lowering my risk and I'm not trying to eat or do heavy breathing activities, so it's easier to just leave on.
I truly have no idea how I would deal with someone having drastically opposite beliefs to me on personal safety who lives in my house, though. But I don't think this is quite a situation of being abusive or that OP needs to go on meds and therapy immediately to be okay with taking the risks of getting covid from his worry-free wife. OP has not hit the point of "I don't care if I get covid, it's cool and okay to do so in 2023" yet, OP still cares about that. I don't think it super matters on the odds of car accident vs. long covid, because either could happen anyway if you leave the house.
OP needs to come up with a way to minimize their own risk in a way they can live with without any input/capitulation from the wife, because there's nothing that can be done about the wife exposing them to covid if she's fine with exposing herself to covid. I would say to practice isolation protocols for yourself to the best of your ability and hope that works out.
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:42 PM on October 18, 2023 [17 favorites]
I personally think she could suck it up and mask for a few hours at the theater to make you feel better--she's sitting still, it's not like she has to eat or drink or talk or anything where having a mask on is harder, for godsake--and if I'm around someone who masks or needs to mask more than I do, I will suck it up and wear one, at least indoors these days, because that is a kind thing to do and makes them feel better and everyone is at less risk. But my opinion doesn't matter, only hers does. And she has apparently said no and cannot have her mind changed. That's not on the table for discussion, all we can do is discuss with OP the actions they can take to feel better without the wife having to change her "normal" behavior in any way.
FWIW her taking the bed and you taking the couch for five days after this might be a good compromise,
I agree with this. If she wants to go mask-free for two hours so badly that she would rather follow covid protocols for five days than wear one, and that's something you can negotiate, I'd go with that. If you're taking it upon yourself to isolate from her--taking the couch and leaving her the bedroom--then it's all on you and she doesn't have to change a thing, and hopefully both sides can be reasonably content with that.
I don't think OP is being abusive for not wanting to catch covid, though. I live alone and I would have lost my shit on a roommate/SO if they'd told me they want to go mask free and socialize all the time before, I dunno, this year, and frankly it's only that even I am getting huge mask fatigue after all these years that I'm sometimes going around without one now. I'm thoroughly vaxxed and I still don't want to take the risk of getting it, but also I'm so tired of dealing with The Restaurant Situation of having to take it off to eat/can't get anyone to eat outside/it's too cold or hot to eat outside any more, and so tired of the issues of that coming up with theater in that I'm the only one who cares about not catching it still, that I'm dangerously relaxing my own standards to "fit in" with everyone else. And I assure you, I will beat myself up for the rest of my life for doing that once I get covid, because I will feel like I brought covid upon myself by "relaxing." However, even if sometimes I still have mine off, I'm wearing it in situations like work and attending theater shows that I'm not performing in, because I feel somewhat better lowering my risk and I'm not trying to eat or do heavy breathing activities, so it's easier to just leave on.
I truly have no idea how I would deal with someone having drastically opposite beliefs to me on personal safety who lives in my house, though. But I don't think this is quite a situation of being abusive or that OP needs to go on meds and therapy immediately to be okay with taking the risks of getting covid from his worry-free wife. OP has not hit the point of "I don't care if I get covid, it's cool and okay to do so in 2023" yet, OP still cares about that. I don't think it super matters on the odds of car accident vs. long covid, because either could happen anyway if you leave the house.
OP needs to come up with a way to minimize their own risk in a way they can live with without any input/capitulation from the wife, because there's nothing that can be done about the wife exposing them to covid if she's fine with exposing herself to covid. I would say to practice isolation protocols for yourself to the best of your ability and hope that works out.
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:42 PM on October 18, 2023 [17 favorites]
In a vacuum, I think it is not unreasonable to ask her to mask in certain situations. But, I think there is a history in your relationship that includes making accommodations to your anxiety that make this current request the straw that breaks the camel's back.
I am not a mask wearer in general. Even in 2020 at the height of Covid mania, I never wore one outside and just respected stores, homes, etc that said "no mask, no entry" by not entering. At that time, it was certainly reasonable to either comply and wear a mask or not enter. I also would avoid public spaces at peak times. As an accomodation to those with high risk of catching Covid and having bad outcomes, I would grocery shop at 10pm. I would go to a business at off hours.
Now, after 3+ years, there are studies that show that masks are effective and studies that say they are not. I think at this point it is a statistical numbers game. If you are willing to go with a mask, you seem to think the odds of getting Covid with a mask on is much lower than without a mask, but it is not zero. What if you went and your spouse stayed home and you caught it anyway?
Anxiety is a powerful thing. I am a stock and option trader that takes significant financial risk multiple times a day. I view life through a trader's perspective or through a risk reward lens. You take so many risks yourself everyday that you never consider. Crossing the street in certain areas is a major risk. Taking a shower can be a risk. Eating tainted food is a risk. In this case, the risk is catching Covid. The reward is...getting to see your friend's movie in a theater. I do not know the financing behind your friend's movie, but perhaps they would be willing to lend you a copy for a home screening, or suggest another screening that will not be as crowded. I suspect part of the reward is not just seeing your friend's movie, but being seen publicly supporting that friend. Well, the way to eliminate the risk or even mitigate it, is to not go. But, if you don't go, your anxiety wins over the statistical likelihood of catching Covid.
This is not a fight between you and your spouse. It is a fight between you and your anxiety. When your spouse did catch it previously, you took to the couch and that worked. Take comfort in that. It likely will work again if they catch it. Phunniemee made a good suggestion above, medication to address your anxiety.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 4:59 PM on October 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
I am not a mask wearer in general. Even in 2020 at the height of Covid mania, I never wore one outside and just respected stores, homes, etc that said "no mask, no entry" by not entering. At that time, it was certainly reasonable to either comply and wear a mask or not enter. I also would avoid public spaces at peak times. As an accomodation to those with high risk of catching Covid and having bad outcomes, I would grocery shop at 10pm. I would go to a business at off hours.
Now, after 3+ years, there are studies that show that masks are effective and studies that say they are not. I think at this point it is a statistical numbers game. If you are willing to go with a mask, you seem to think the odds of getting Covid with a mask on is much lower than without a mask, but it is not zero. What if you went and your spouse stayed home and you caught it anyway?
Anxiety is a powerful thing. I am a stock and option trader that takes significant financial risk multiple times a day. I view life through a trader's perspective or through a risk reward lens. You take so many risks yourself everyday that you never consider. Crossing the street in certain areas is a major risk. Taking a shower can be a risk. Eating tainted food is a risk. In this case, the risk is catching Covid. The reward is...getting to see your friend's movie in a theater. I do not know the financing behind your friend's movie, but perhaps they would be willing to lend you a copy for a home screening, or suggest another screening that will not be as crowded. I suspect part of the reward is not just seeing your friend's movie, but being seen publicly supporting that friend. Well, the way to eliminate the risk or even mitigate it, is to not go. But, if you don't go, your anxiety wins over the statistical likelihood of catching Covid.
This is not a fight between you and your spouse. It is a fight between you and your anxiety. When your spouse did catch it previously, you took to the couch and that worked. Take comfort in that. It likely will work again if they catch it. Phunniemee made a good suggestion above, medication to address your anxiety.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 4:59 PM on October 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
Do you think she's being unreasonable not to mask?
I am clearly in the minority, but yes. I would move heaven and earth to do what made my beloved feel safe and cared for because I fucking love him. I kinda feel like I'm the healthy horse in this relationship - I am fat as fuck with shitty joints but haven't been especially sick in 15+ years, after a teenage and young adult plague of sinusitis - and yet I gladly briefly stick a straw under my mask or go outside to take it off in a safer space. I adore my husband and want him to live and thrive. I think he's awesome and want him to live at least 10 minutes longer than me. Or I'd be willing to go 10 minutes early if he promised he'd be right behind me.
Anyone who tells you that you should expect less is not on your side. You are not sick or wrong or incorrect or too demanding to expect more from your partner. And I have had this argument on smaller scales - I at one point threatened to jump out of a moving car because his ADHD led to frequent stop-sign-running and other unacceptable driving problems, and I drew a heavy line at one point when the same ADHD presented in wall-punching behavior that just simply was not acceptable in our shared home.
I've been feeling especially emotional about this for obvious reasons, but as anecdata: I mentioned we did some Big Math to go to NYC to see some shows. We needed to kill some time before one of them, in the West Village on Christopher Street, and it was raining and we wanted a drink. The one close available place we found was a tiny gay men's bar, one where 97% of the clientele was roughly my age: GenX, 50-something. It was a very very very small bar and there were still a few empty stools (and a very large NO DANCING sign, disco ball be damned), and halfway through my drink it hit home why: because a significant percentage of my peers died in a deliberately negligent mass genocide orchestrated at the highest levels of government. They were also really sweet to me. Maybe because I was using a cane, maybe they thought I was a clueless middle-aged hobbling housewife rather than a gender-irritated middle-aged femmeishperson carrying a cardigan Just In Case, and my husband looks like the bland-ist Tall White Dude ever even though he also thinks gender is bullshit. But they gave us the best table in the place, and that was kind.
Masks are not harmful, they are at best a bit annoying. I can't imagine refusing to mask in any situation my husband thought was risky enough - with his possible vulnerabilities - that we should. I think someone who won't mask to meet your concerns is...not very concerned about you. I am aware that some people won't like my opinion on that, and I can't figure out what the alternate would accomplish.
posted by Lyn Never at 7:39 PM on October 18, 2023 [20 favorites]
I am clearly in the minority, but yes. I would move heaven and earth to do what made my beloved feel safe and cared for because I fucking love him. I kinda feel like I'm the healthy horse in this relationship - I am fat as fuck with shitty joints but haven't been especially sick in 15+ years, after a teenage and young adult plague of sinusitis - and yet I gladly briefly stick a straw under my mask or go outside to take it off in a safer space. I adore my husband and want him to live and thrive. I think he's awesome and want him to live at least 10 minutes longer than me. Or I'd be willing to go 10 minutes early if he promised he'd be right behind me.
Anyone who tells you that you should expect less is not on your side. You are not sick or wrong or incorrect or too demanding to expect more from your partner. And I have had this argument on smaller scales - I at one point threatened to jump out of a moving car because his ADHD led to frequent stop-sign-running and other unacceptable driving problems, and I drew a heavy line at one point when the same ADHD presented in wall-punching behavior that just simply was not acceptable in our shared home.
I've been feeling especially emotional about this for obvious reasons, but as anecdata: I mentioned we did some Big Math to go to NYC to see some shows. We needed to kill some time before one of them, in the West Village on Christopher Street, and it was raining and we wanted a drink. The one close available place we found was a tiny gay men's bar, one where 97% of the clientele was roughly my age: GenX, 50-something. It was a very very very small bar and there were still a few empty stools (and a very large NO DANCING sign, disco ball be damned), and halfway through my drink it hit home why: because a significant percentage of my peers died in a deliberately negligent mass genocide orchestrated at the highest levels of government. They were also really sweet to me. Maybe because I was using a cane, maybe they thought I was a clueless middle-aged hobbling housewife rather than a gender-irritated middle-aged femmeishperson carrying a cardigan Just In Case, and my husband looks like the bland-ist Tall White Dude ever even though he also thinks gender is bullshit. But they gave us the best table in the place, and that was kind.
Masks are not harmful, they are at best a bit annoying. I can't imagine refusing to mask in any situation my husband thought was risky enough - with his possible vulnerabilities - that we should. I think someone who won't mask to meet your concerns is...not very concerned about you. I am aware that some people won't like my opinion on that, and I can't figure out what the alternate would accomplish.
posted by Lyn Never at 7:39 PM on October 18, 2023 [20 favorites]
Hi there, I'm an epidemiologist. You need to hear this: you're not being overly cautious by wearing a mask. You're not being overly cautious by asking your partner to wear a mask. You don't need to accept that your lot is panic, Valium, or any other coping strategy. You can assert that wearing a mask is a simple, minimally burdensome protective measure.
There's no "at this stage of the pandemic" justification for someone to outright reject another person's request for wearing a mask in a crowded situation. I'm flying today, and I'm in a mask. I have a spare with me, too, that's I'll swap out after the first 6 or so hours of travel time. This is a fundamental preventive strategy in my field. I abide by it because I'm still often in the clinic with people who are suffering, greatly, from Covid and its aftereffects. I understand that people are frustrated, myself included... but my frustrations are tempered by direct, unavoidable contact with how uncool "this stage of the pandemic" still is.
I'd suggest that this comes down to communication. If you tell your partner that you're so anxious by their unwillingness to wear a mask that you're searching internet forums for advice on how to cope with your anxiety, how do they react? Can you make a deeper conversation about this, rather than believing that you're putting an unreasonable burden on someone you love?
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 4:31 AM on October 19, 2023 [21 favorites]
There's no "at this stage of the pandemic" justification for someone to outright reject another person's request for wearing a mask in a crowded situation. I'm flying today, and I'm in a mask. I have a spare with me, too, that's I'll swap out after the first 6 or so hours of travel time. This is a fundamental preventive strategy in my field. I abide by it because I'm still often in the clinic with people who are suffering, greatly, from Covid and its aftereffects. I understand that people are frustrated, myself included... but my frustrations are tempered by direct, unavoidable contact with how uncool "this stage of the pandemic" still is.
I'd suggest that this comes down to communication. If you tell your partner that you're so anxious by their unwillingness to wear a mask that you're searching internet forums for advice on how to cope with your anxiety, how do they react? Can you make a deeper conversation about this, rather than believing that you're putting an unreasonable burden on someone you love?
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 4:31 AM on October 19, 2023 [21 favorites]
I would gently point out that washing hands is easy, and takes a few moments. Most sex that uses a condom also takes a few minutes. For some, wearing a mask for hours is, indeed, difficult. I don't know an equivalent health mitigation.
This question is NOT about wearing a mask or not, the OP asked very nicely not to debate that. It is about managing anxiety.
My advice for managing anxiety over this is that if you can remain calm during the performance, it will get easier minute by minute. This could act as exposure therapy for you. However, if your anxiety is reaching panic levels, I do think consulting a doctor would be helpful. Panic attacks aren't fun and if you're at that level, it's far more serious.
posted by tiny frying pan at 5:29 AM on October 19, 2023 [5 favorites]
This question is NOT about wearing a mask or not, the OP asked very nicely not to debate that. It is about managing anxiety.
My advice for managing anxiety over this is that if you can remain calm during the performance, it will get easier minute by minute. This could act as exposure therapy for you. However, if your anxiety is reaching panic levels, I do think consulting a doctor would be helpful. Panic attacks aren't fun and if you're at that level, it's far more serious.
posted by tiny frying pan at 5:29 AM on October 19, 2023 [5 favorites]
Mod note: A few comments removed. Please stick to helping the OP with their anxiety, so everyone, including the OP, should avoid the mask debate, thanks.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 5:37 AM on October 19, 2023
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 5:37 AM on October 19, 2023
I wonder if you could benefit from reading what experts have written about coping with climate change? This is another situation in which people who understand the risks have to get on with life when the personal choices of others are potentially harmful to the self, definitely detrimental to the world, but nevertheless out of their control. It’s a heavy lift and I wish you well.
posted by eirias at 5:46 AM on October 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by eirias at 5:46 AM on October 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
When I have an intellectual acceptance of a certain risk/decision/situation, but my body is not on board (physiological anxiety), ativan is a great thing.
That could get you through the actual evening.
For the rest, if I were her, I'd want to know that you have some kind of system/plan around risk. Ie., you'll only ask her to wear a mask when numbers above a given threshold, or it's a crowd bigger than x, etc. That would help me feel like I'm supporting a risk mitigation strategy, rather than unboundedly committing myself to your anxiety with no prospect/hope of taking the mask off/having my own risk calculations have weight .
If you don't have that kind of plan, it may be because your anxiety is still running the show, and it would be worth it to address with meds and therapy, and maybe a therapist who could help you work towards a plan.
posted by Salamandrous at 2:17 PM on October 20, 2023 [2 favorites]
That could get you through the actual evening.
For the rest, if I were her, I'd want to know that you have some kind of system/plan around risk. Ie., you'll only ask her to wear a mask when numbers above a given threshold, or it's a crowd bigger than x, etc. That would help me feel like I'm supporting a risk mitigation strategy, rather than unboundedly committing myself to your anxiety with no prospect/hope of taking the mask off/having my own risk calculations have weight .
If you don't have that kind of plan, it may be because your anxiety is still running the show, and it would be worth it to address with meds and therapy, and maybe a therapist who could help you work towards a plan.
posted by Salamandrous at 2:17 PM on October 20, 2023 [2 favorites]
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In the case of 1) there's not a whole lot you can do to control another person's actions or their consequences. In the case of 2) can you set up a quarantine from your wife at home for a few days post theater visit until she's had a negative test?
posted by phunniemee at 5:45 AM on October 18, 2023 [4 favorites]