getting out of the "scarcity" mindset in dating

September 19, 2023 1:18 AM

For various reasons (below), my pool of potentially compatible partners is small. When I do meet someone promising (which only happens every 3-4 years or so), I end up becoming fixated on them because I think they are my last chance (and every year older I turn, this belief intensifies), then I make unwise self destructive choices, like clinging to them when when they aren't emotionally available, out of panic and a sense of scarcity. How to stop?

I'm a 38 woman, currently interested in a serious relationship with a man. I live in a decent sized supposedly liberal American city where most people settle down in their early to mid 30s. So my age already feels limiting.

While I'm conventionally attractive by most every metric, and in very good shape, I'm also a sex worker who had my tubes tied, and either one of those things is an automatic no from a good amount of men looking for marriage or something long-term (rather than casual sex which is not for me)

In men, I'm not picky about things like career/education/wealth/house/car (I think humans are so much more than how we earn & spend money under capitalism) but physical chemistry is very important to me (I'm not at all attracted to the older clients I see at work, and part of my self care is pursuing intimacy with people I have genuine, authentic desire for, usually around my own age).

I use all the existing dating apps and I also meet people at shows and bars pretty easily (I'm not shy) but again, I only feel sexual attraction for someone every few years. (I don't think I'm on the ace spectrum because the attraction to these people is very high and not based on how well I know them - it's just super rare to experience) Typically I end up in relationships with them and later learn they aren't able to commit or have avoidant attachment, and they ultimately end things.

This has led to thought spirals about the diminishing chance I will meet a suitable life partner, which causes distress. How do I break this thought loop and move to a mindset of "abundance" in this part of my life?

posted by cboggs to Human Relations (28 answers total)

We have some overlap. A useful (and still ongoing) revelation in my situation has been therapy that focuses on my internal dynamics of relating and attraction. A question for you: have you experienced or had interest in trying out counseling? There's merit there, because part of this (I'd suggest) relates to deeply exploring your values, and getting practice yielding to them (and the consequences or downstream effects of really dialing into those values).

You mention ending up in relationships in which you find you're met with avoidant attachment styles. I've been stunned by how much of an internal, apparently unconscious drive I have toward people with avoidant attachment styles. I've had two serious relationships in my life. The first revealed itself to me in this way after about 12 years. My first encounter with therapy followed, and that was first exposed to thinking about attachment styles, values-based action, and a lot of other stuff. The second major relationship followed, and took about 2-3 years to get to the point when I was confident closing it up. That was an improvement over 12 years, but I was surprised that I was nevertheless susceptible to the same things that troubled the first relationship. And so, I'm back talking to a therapist. It's fascinating, because there is so much hazy obscurity around the personal trajectories that leave us with these kinds of attractions, or maybe susceptibilities.

I'd say that's my suggestion: you can break this thought loop by focusing more on yourself, your internal world as it related to the external one. Therapy is a good way to do that. THere ar other resources, too, though. This workbook was introduced to me after my first major relationship ended, and it was so helpful and illuminating that it's what motivated me to find and work with a therapist.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 2:40 AM on September 19, 2023 [6 favorites]

Another easy thing that can help with noticing and unhooking from ingrained thought patterns is meditation. It can sound a bit woo, but a lot of it is just systematically practicing noticing and letting go of intrusive thoughts, so it becomes more automatic. Then when you're reaching for your phone to write an ill advised text, the habit kicks in and you can (a) identify that you're having unhelpful thoughts, and (b) let go of the thoughts and put down the phone.

If you're interested in trying, I definitely recommend getting an app or person/course/program to teach you. It's enough of a challenge to learn without also having to be your own teacher. Then if you turn it into a regular daily habit (even if only a few minutes), it will stick with you.

I suspect this is a good complement to therapy, where the therapy can help you identify helpful thought patterns to focus on versus ones you want to leave behind.
posted by quacks like a duck at 3:49 AM on September 19, 2023 [2 favorites]

A very useful thing for me once I figured it out is what am I dating for?

I don't want kids, so it's not that. I've moved from "I'm not interested in getting married" to "I actively do not ever want to be married" so it's not that. I spent a long stretch of time single and really got my life in a nice spot, I have dogs and a house, good friends I enjoy, a stable job where I'm respected, a healthy retirement account...so I'm not looking for someone to bring me stability or to cohabitate. I also, just my personality, prefer being alone.

So what is the point of dating? I realized for me that my only two goals were to be with someone whose body I wanted to touch who made me feel good when we were together. That's it. I feel good? I stay. I feel bad? I'm out.

That sounds simplistic, and it is, but it was like the whole world opened up to me. I am free! As long as those two things are met, everything else can fall into place.

Ironically once I told myself how strictly I was going to adhere to the feels-bad-leave rule, I met a guy who hasn't made me feel bad once in the 7 months since we met. So that's neat.

Also just a side note, not sure if you're searching in the apps for strictly men who do not want kids, but give that some scrutiny. My boyfriend said he had that setting turned on for a while, but the apps did not show him matches. He set it to "not sure yet" and started seeing matches again, even women who had "does not want kids" turned on. Ugh. Anyway, the apps may be throttling you unnecessarily.
posted by phunniemee at 5:28 AM on September 19, 2023 [21 favorites]

I think it's worth unpacking that your stated primary requirement for a relationship is that you want to luck into - rather than create - one specific completely intangible interpersonal dynamic that cannot be guaranteed to last and which you yourself say you rarely even feel.

And reading between the lines, I think the characteristic you're looking for is a specific sort of overwhelming sexy charisma in an era where our masculinity standards have largely beaten that out of almost anybody who might have developed it. You want Movie Sexy, but movies aren't even sexy anymore. An additional problem: when you do find one, many of the greatest talents at Sexy Charisma are, yep, people who do not commit for various reasons but really love sexy limerence.

Sexy limerence isn't sustainable in that way in most cases, because the real world intrudes. There's an art to turning that into something that co-exists with real intimacy, the kind where you see each other sick and stressed and trying to pay bills and making sandwiches.

Your requirements are creating the scarcity you feel. I think your choices are either come to terms with that and live your life a) in ways that may increase your likelihood to cross paths with bolder, sexier people b) but also satisfied with a life in which you may not find the right person for you ever, OR break this down some and figure out if there's some leeway here to a) see if building the connection and chemistry you want is feasible b) decide whether you want to make some other form of compromise like finding someone to have a long-term supportive connected relationship with and some other outlet for your very periodic high-intensity attractions.
posted by Lyn Never at 6:23 AM on September 19, 2023 [6 favorites]

First, yes, being a sex worker is going to be a deal-breaker for a lot of people. I would argue that it shouldn't be, but those attitudes/prejudices are widespread. So there is just a reality that your current profession is going to shrink your dating pool in most places, and things that maybe work for other people might not work as well for you given that limitation.

But second, I think it is worth interrogating (ideally with a therapist) the reasons you are only feeling strong attraction every 2-4 years, and when you do it is repeatedly to people that are emotionally unavailable. Like, is this some kind of self-sabotage, or stemming from negative experiences in the past, or whatever; understanding where this is coming from will help in figuring out how to break the cycle. (Or, in the terms you use, moving from a feeling of scarcity to one of abundance.)
posted by Dip Flash at 6:47 AM on September 19, 2023 [2 favorites]

Mod note: Comment removed. Please avoid making assumptions about the OP or their state of mind.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 7:59 AM on September 19, 2023 [1 favorite]

I sadly don't have advice for having an "abundance" mindset when frankly, suitable men are literally not abundant for you. (Or me either.) I will note that per books I've read, avoidant attachment men are constantly jumping back into the dating pool, and the dating pool is FULL of them, whereas the securely attached men aren't in the dating pool for very long. I kind of doubt it's a case of "I'm perverse and only attracted to men who won't want me, I need therapy for that" so much as that's what's on offer for the most part in the dating pool. Frankly, it may not be a case of your picker is broken so much as there's just not a lot of good choices out there to find.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:12 AM on September 19, 2023 [6 favorites]

then I make unwise self destructive choices, like clinging to them when when they aren't emotionally available

I'm not sure the scarcity mindset is the issue*, so much as this- that you have the mindset that you're better off in a relationship that isn't working for you than no relationship at all.

*(some people genuinely do have less options than others, and unfortunately not wanting kids/being a sex worker is going to weed people out)
posted by coffeecat at 9:12 AM on September 19, 2023

I also have a small dating pool, and while it is easier for me to experience sexual attraction than you, I also had that panic you feel for a few years. What worked for me was to find ways to settle into being permanently single, and any romantic relationships that arose would be just a fun bonus. I arranged my life with the assumption I was on my own, and developed social circles and habits which would meet a lot of my needs. I have had a couple serious partners since doing this, but don't feel I NEED them in the same way.

If you would also like ideas for possibly expanding your dating pool:

Have you ever tried dating someone you don't feel that instant chemistry with, and see if something like it builds over time? I have some partners with whom I don't click with in that way immediately, but do eventually. And other partners with whom I never get that, but enjoy sex with in a completely different kind of way. (I have friends for whom this just plain doesn't work, but if you've never tried it before, it might be worth a shot.)

Don't write off younger folks. 27-year-olds might be more open to your career.

With everyone's consent, you may be able to enjoy sex with someone avoidant you have chemistry with, potentially while developing a life partnership with someone who's not interested in sex.

If finding someone is of prime importance to you, you can consider expanding your search geographically. If this is something you NEED, it's worth moving for.
posted by metasarah at 9:12 AM on September 19, 2023 [6 favorites]

I would also like to encourage you to try geographically expanding your pool: both of your “dealbreakers” are going to be less deal breakers in some areas than others, and also sometimes we really tend to resonate with characteristics that are more prevalent in one region than another. (Most of my most satisfying relationships were men from the same two states. It’s unreal.) That might lower the scarcity problem and also mean more people you’re attracted to have healthier attachment styles.
posted by corb at 9:34 AM on September 19, 2023 [1 favorite]

Response by poster: "And reading between the lines, I think the characteristic you're looking for is a specific sort of overwhelming sexy charisma in an era where our masculinity standards have largely beaten that out of almost anybody who might have developed it. You want Movie Sexy"

I didn't mention what specifically I'm attracted to, and this definitely isn't it, so I hope others won't make the same assumption.
posted by cboggs at 10:48 AM on September 19, 2023 [9 favorites]

I don't think you can force an abundance mindset when things aren't abundant. Think of it like food - if you didn't have enough food, it would be ludicrous and harmful to pretend you did. It's better to learn to cope with the scarcity.

I am someone who is picky enough that I don't even think someone I am sexually attracted to and compatible with lifestyle wise even exists in the world - or perhaps they do, but I will probably never meet them. So the first step was to separate those two things. I don't need the people I share my life with to be the same people I bang. Often the people I'm attracted to aren't even attracted to me (or they are, but they're smart enough not to go there for reasons). So I just try to be happy they exist and enjoy interacting with them.

As for this part - then I make unwise self destructive choices, like clinging to them when when they aren't emotionally available, out of panic and a sense of scarcity. How to stop?

I hate to sound this flippant, because I know it's not that easy, but you just have to stop. It's the same set of skills you'd use to quit an addiction or jump in a freezing cold lake. You just have to say - ok, this is going to be incredibly painful, but I'm just going to do it anyway, because the alternative is worse. You need to get frustrated enough with the consequences it has on your life that doing it no longer appeals to you.

And this - This has led to thought spirals about the diminishing chance I will meet a suitable life partner, which causes distress. How do I break this thought loop and move to a mindset of "abundance" in this part of my life?

I would use radical acceptance here. Instead of worrying that you're not going to find a suitable life partner, accept that you may not. Let it cause you distress, and do the best you can to ease that distress yourself. I think that in our culture, we have this idea that we're owed certain things we want, or things that everyone else seems to have. Books like this one have helped me a lot. Not only did she never find a suitable life partner, her life was absolutely brutal and harrowing. That is life for some people. All you can do is accept that and do your best to find joy anywhere you can.
posted by wheatlets at 10:50 AM on September 19, 2023 [4 favorites]

Oh - and psychedelics were absolutely key for me in cultivating that "life sucks, enjoy it anyway" mindset.
posted by wheatlets at 11:51 AM on September 19, 2023 [4 favorites]

Yeah I think trying to "cultivate a mindset of abundance" is a really popular self-help idea right now but it's not always applicable. It just sounds fancier than your great aunt Sylvia telling you "there's other fish in the sea," but it's neither more nor less true.

Yes, sure, if someone truly believes in the abundance of single, emotionally available, thoroughly attractive potential partners I guess they probably have an easier time reconciling themselves to a breakup or a match that doesn't work. But trying to force yourself to believe something when all your evidence runs to the contrary is just some Secret-style woo.

Instead, maybe the better focus would be
1. practicing distress tolerance, so that you are not overwhelmed by distress to the point of paralysis/remaining in damaging relationships
2. analyzing those circumstances in which you experienced attraction. Like really get into it, maybe with a therapist who can help ID some of the common threads, because there probably are some even if in practice it all felt like random lightning. Odds are it has little to do with the partners themselves (but probably some). Posters above who are theorizing that it may be the very unavailability playing a role may be right; if so, attraction to that can be untangled and understood and unlearned.

It more likely is an alchemy of where you are in YOUR life and how you are feeling about yourself, the world, people, sex, etc. And the good news about that is that you actually have a fair bit of control over your life, so you can then work to set yourself up for that lightning strike more often.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 12:27 PM on September 19, 2023 [5 favorites]

Response by poster: Thanks for all the insights here. I've been in therapy forever (CBT, DBT, and I meditate already too) - although have not tried that ACT workbook yet, which looks interesting.

I do feel a bit bummed now though because I was wanting, in my question, a sense of hopefulness or possibility, and instead several comments actually confirmed my fears and anxieties.

For those who mentioned expanding geography - that's a concrete thing I can explore - what U.S. cities are best for women in their late 30s looking for committed, childfree relationships?
posted by cboggs at 12:28 PM on September 19, 2023

RE geography, cities with larger than average poly communities might be your best bet. Which means large coastal cities in general but the Pacific Northwest and Bay Area in particular. (Of course then there's affording to live there...)
posted by metasarah at 1:15 PM on September 19, 2023 [1 favorite]

Here's my comment for the hopefulness bucket. I recently came across this article about porn star Allison Rey and her partner, who had no issues with her being in the sex work industry. https://www.vice.com/en/article/jg58dp/porn-star-with-civilian-boyfriend-navigating-sex-life

Also, out of left field suggestion: post an ad on Reddit r/r4r30plus and similar subs. Put exactly what you want: similar age, doesn't want kids, must be ok that you're in sex work, within a certain geographic location, etc. And of course some stuff about who you are as a person. Yes people will only be interested in the sex worker part of you (similar to Allison Rey's experience) but you can ignore those. Also consider getting advice from the sex worker subs.

You can also try going this person's route and have a boyfriend application: https://nypost.com/2023/09/01/im-taking-boyfriend-applications-ive-already-got-3000-candidates/

Also, Google "date me doc."
posted by foxjacket at 1:18 PM on September 19, 2023 [5 favorites]

I was about to suggest the Pacific Northwest and Bay Area for other reasons, you beat me to it! Haha. There’s a lot of really nontraditional folks who are interested in serious commitments, but those don’t always look like the stereotypes of 2.5 kids and a picket fence. And often people are just finding themselves in their late thirties. (I myself found someone at 39 for the sort of unusual relationship that worked for me).
posted by corb at 2:06 PM on September 19, 2023 [1 favorite]

I do feel a bit bummed now though because I was wanting, in my question, a sense of hopefulness or possibility, and instead several comments actually confirmed my fears and anxieties.

Well, we probably shouldn't lie that there are abundant options of men out there. I get that the whole manifesting mindset is to believe that abundance and choices abound, but that does go up against reality. Supposedly you have to imagine what it's like to be full and satisfied, i.e. in love and supported and happy, but since that hasn't happened to me in a billion years, I can't pull that one off.

I saw some depressing link earlier today that I didn't save about what the odds are of finding anyone that fits the demographics you're looking for, and it's hard, y'all. At the very least, not wanting children cuts off most of the population (speaking from experience). Sex work presumably does the same. If you have any specific requirements like a lack of children, or anything unusual about you as a person, it does limit.

I do think the West Coast is probably more likely to be amenable to what you want geographically, but I do feel like in general there needs to be a better way for people with limiting factors to find people, because shopping in bulk doesn't seem to work too well. I do like the idea of the date me doc, albeit I'm not sure how well that works locationwise and it sounds like people need to have a place to post the darned things to be found.
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:54 PM on September 19, 2023 [1 favorite]

Maybe the mindset we really need to have is more "thank you, next?" Assume you'll be going through dude after dude after dude, throwing them back into the pool again quickly rather than hoping this frog will turn into a prince.
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:56 PM on September 19, 2023 [2 favorites]

I mean, none of us can reassure you, none of this is certain (I’d love that too!). I really identify with this question though; we have different constraints but I too am not attracted to a whole lot of people and have been thinking of my history of trying to make damaging relationships work for too long in exactly the “abundance mindset” terms that you use. So I can say that I am in therapy and picking apart a lot of my boundary issues and some long-buried trauma that I’m grateful has been coming to the surface, and practicing better boundaries in friendships and work relationships (this is hard! I’ve stepped back from some friendships in a way that feels good for me but honestly surprises me, because this is so new). I have found myself declining to pursue romantic interest from people who make me feel those very familiar feelings of people who have not been good for me in the past. I have gotten more comfortable with being single and really, truly being in a place where it will be more clear to me if someone actually makes my life better. I am practicing identifying how people make me feel with how they treat me and the reactions I have to that. So I’m basically in the middle of a similar journey myself and that is what I’m working on to get there.
posted by jeweled accumulation at 5:51 PM on September 19, 2023 [2 favorites]

I read your update again and I have a lot of experience with cbt/dbt and meditation as well, and I’m now seeing a “relational therapy” therapist, and I’m finding it helpful to be able to just kind of talk about these things and how they manifest in my life. It feels honestly luxurious because cbt/dbt was more like “how do I cope with my life” and now that I have that pretty well down, I have the amazing opportunity to get to some deeper issues like this.
posted by jeweled accumulation at 5:58 PM on September 19, 2023

Even though you are clear about not wanting kids, it feels like you're holding yourself to a similar timeframe as someone who does want kids.

The mid-30s to mid-40s are the years where a whole lot of people who always assumed they would have kids are either making that one last hard push to make it happen or are still coming to terms with their life not looking like they thought it would. Meanwhile, there are people who definitely don't want any more kids still staying together for the sake of the kids, or who are just to busy to date as a single parent. In this age range, they are in the throes of it.

I really suspect you're experiencing the low ebb. The tide comes back in at older ages. Not wishing divorce or death of a partner on anyone, but these things do happen, and people look for love again.
posted by Former Congressional Representative Lenny Lemming at 6:05 PM on September 19, 2023 [8 favorites]

Yes, I came here to say similarly to what Former ... said. Your scarcity mindset is there because you have created it for yourself. I was shocked by your sentiment that 38 is the time to settle down or something to that effect. It's not for everyone. So you're forcing yourself into some arbitrary timeline that may not even be true. You might want to interrogate why you're reinforcing these negative messages for yourself. You might want to look into demisexuality if you aren't attracted very often.
posted by AnyUsernameWillDo at 6:35 PM on September 19, 2023 [1 favorite]

While I'm conventionally attractive by most every metric, and in very good shape

this is going to be an ongoing problem, then. I do not believe it is harder to be very attractive & visibly athletic than not to be, because it manifestly isn’t, but it is not the asset in this context that you seem to consider it. (I would not describe myself that way so I can’t empathize, but I do observe.) I think there are some guys who can be cool and normal about an attractive woman in unusually great shape, and some guys who can be reasonable about sex work, but not necessarily too much overlap. this is a real difficulty.

your relatively young age and childbearing status aren’t a big deal though.

to the question of scarcity panic, I am curious whether you think you might be attracted to more men more often if you did not have to engage so much of so many of the unattractive ones so consistently for work purposes. I assume you are not interested in changing jobs at this time so it is not a very useful question. but it did strike me as odd to mention sex work as a challenge in getting men to be interested in you, when it seems like the much bigger issue is it stands in the way of you getting interested in them.
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:42 PM on September 19, 2023 [2 favorites]

Response by poster: queenofbithynia - can you elaborate on your first paragraph? I'm not sure what you mean.

Your last sentence is very insightful and gives me something to think about. If you look back on my previous questions on here, you'll see I am in fact actively trying to exit the sex industry. Although, in my experience, "current sex worker" and "former sex worker" tend to be dealbreakers in equal measure with most men, because they have the mindset that the work makes a woman permanently less pure, tainted, diseased, etc.
posted by cboggs at 8:08 PM on September 19, 2023

Aw heck, I wasn't trying to be discouraging with my comment! I don't actually think it's a bleak or hopeless situation in the slightest. I just think the solution is something different than "cultivating an abundance mindset" -- I think you need to cultivate the actual abundance, namely, figure out how to be more attracted to more people, increasing the odds that you'll be attracted to someone who wants a long-term commitment.

CBT and all that are great tools but I wonder if you don't need something that lets you wander a bit more in your mind, look at the stories you're telling yourself about people, men, attraction, sex, and yourself. If you haven't looked into just straight-up talk therapy, maybe something to consider.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 10:28 PM on September 19, 2023 [1 favorite]

I hope my answer wasn’t one of the discouraging ones, although I can see how it could be read that way. For me personally, it’s liberating to accept that I may not get something I really want. Yes, it is very painful, but it beats the anxiety of “Will I get it or won’t I?”

When I fully accept and process that I may never get what I want, and make plans for how I can still enjoy life without it, that’s when I can begin to be truly hopeful, because that hope can come without the anxiety of “What if I don’t get it???”
posted by wheatlets at 7:31 AM on September 20, 2023 [1 favorite]