How can I become more persuasive?
July 20, 2023 1:05 PM Subscribe
I have a friend can get anyone to do anything for her. Going places with her feels magical, like secret new worlds open up that I never would have thought possible. I tend to be the sort who assumes any written policy will be followed (which I’m aware is my first mistake). Still, when I ask for things, people have no trouble saying no to me.
I have asked her about how she does this, and she is able to help me fine tune specific requests to sound better, but since this is the way she’s always been, she has trouble explaining how to be that kind of person. I’m thinking I might get better advice from someone who was once like me and learned how to be like her.
I’m also thinking of an exchange I had with my boss today. I told her about some fridge woes I was having, and she responded “Oh yeah, my fridge was making a weird noise too. I sent a video to my landlord, and he got me a new fridge. Then I got him to get me a new kitchen.” I was like… “How???” and she said “Slowly and calmly.” Can anyone break this down into advice I can use?
I have asked her about how she does this, and she is able to help me fine tune specific requests to sound better, but since this is the way she’s always been, she has trouble explaining how to be that kind of person. I’m thinking I might get better advice from someone who was once like me and learned how to be like her.
I’m also thinking of an exchange I had with my boss today. I told her about some fridge woes I was having, and she responded “Oh yeah, my fridge was making a weird noise too. I sent a video to my landlord, and he got me a new fridge. Then I got him to get me a new kitchen.” I was like… “How???” and she said “Slowly and calmly.” Can anyone break this down into advice I can use?
I appreciated this relevant book. Similar content to the classic "How to Win Friends and Influence People."
posted by amaire at 1:19 PM on July 20, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by amaire at 1:19 PM on July 20, 2023 [5 favorites]
Any chance these two women are beautiful? Because generally, the women I know who are good a getting seemingly anyone to do them favors are conventionally good looking.
That said, as a woman without conventional good looks, there is a certain truth to the saying "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" but there can be a fine line between being squeaky and being annoying. For landlords, I politely but firmly let them know what needs to happen per the lease agreement, and then generally wait a week to follow up if the problem hasn't been fixed yet. That said, your boss sounds extremely lucky - I've never heard of anyone talking their way into getting a new kitchen.
I also come heavily from "ask culture" so I have no problem asking if the rules can be bended. I'm often told "no" - sometimes the rules really are the rules. But I find if you ask nicely, i.e. "Hey, I realize this may not be possible and that's ok, but is there any chance that...." sometimes it turns out there is some wiggle room (at least in the US - some cultures are more strict about rules).
posted by coffeecat at 1:24 PM on July 20, 2023 [20 favorites]
That said, as a woman without conventional good looks, there is a certain truth to the saying "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" but there can be a fine line between being squeaky and being annoying. For landlords, I politely but firmly let them know what needs to happen per the lease agreement, and then generally wait a week to follow up if the problem hasn't been fixed yet. That said, your boss sounds extremely lucky - I've never heard of anyone talking their way into getting a new kitchen.
I also come heavily from "ask culture" so I have no problem asking if the rules can be bended. I'm often told "no" - sometimes the rules really are the rules. But I find if you ask nicely, i.e. "Hey, I realize this may not be possible and that's ok, but is there any chance that...." sometimes it turns out there is some wiggle room (at least in the US - some cultures are more strict about rules).
posted by coffeecat at 1:24 PM on July 20, 2023 [20 favorites]
I have no advice to give. I just want to say I have a friend who can do this jedi mind trick. She'll suggest you do something, and you're halfway finished before you ask yourself whether you actually wanted to do it.
posted by adamrice at 1:30 PM on July 20, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by adamrice at 1:30 PM on July 20, 2023 [4 favorites]
You may be interested in this related ask: "When/ how do I take no for an answer".
Consider that maybe people find this friend to be pushy and badgering. Or not, I don't know her, maybe she's lovely and everyone just loves to bend rules and help her. My point is some persuasion is fine, and all of us do it to some extent, but trying too hard to get their way can make people into unpleasant jerks, so be mindful of the context.
From the prior thread: " Learn more about negotiating strategies, aim for win win outcomes where everyone benefits if you compromise a little." posted by JonB at 4:05 AM on February 23, 2019"
posted by SaltySalticid at 1:35 PM on July 20, 2023 [6 favorites]
Consider that maybe people find this friend to be pushy and badgering. Or not, I don't know her, maybe she's lovely and everyone just loves to bend rules and help her. My point is some persuasion is fine, and all of us do it to some extent, but trying too hard to get their way can make people into unpleasant jerks, so be mindful of the context.
From the prior thread: " Learn more about negotiating strategies, aim for win win outcomes where everyone benefits if you compromise a little." posted by JonB at 4:05 AM on February 23, 2019"
posted by SaltySalticid at 1:35 PM on July 20, 2023 [6 favorites]
People like doing things for me, and while I'm a woman I don't give off an even remotely helpless manner. I'm also not short (nod to first comment).
Here are some things that are broadly true about a lot of my interactions with people:
- I'm optimistic. I can easily project a situation forward in my head and see a good outcome.
- I'm methodical. I can see every step along the path from here to that good outcome and I'm good at quickly mapping it out.
- I'm extremely impatient. I'm also direct. So if something needs to happen I don't wait around--I'll just go straight to the decision maker with that outline in my mind. I initiate things myself as soon as I see a problem.
- I'm very confident, and I like winning. If I sense resistance from someone it really hypes me up, because it turns things into a lowkey competition. But I don't want to see anyone fail, that's not fun. Winning for me = getting people on that path to the good outcome with me. People like being around confident people, and when I can confidently sell the vision of my good outcome to people, a place where both of us are happy, they will follow.
- I'm also funny and friendly and casual in my manner, and this puts most folks at ease.
Most of this is just a natural part of my personality, and I only notice it when I have a very specific goal in mind and need to be very intentional about my actions. The dark side of being naturally persuasive though is that when it doesn't work...which I'll admit is rare...I become enraged. (Which I try to keep to myself/just vent to friends.)
posted by phunniemee at 1:38 PM on July 20, 2023 [38 favorites]
Here are some things that are broadly true about a lot of my interactions with people:
- I'm optimistic. I can easily project a situation forward in my head and see a good outcome.
- I'm methodical. I can see every step along the path from here to that good outcome and I'm good at quickly mapping it out.
- I'm extremely impatient. I'm also direct. So if something needs to happen I don't wait around--I'll just go straight to the decision maker with that outline in my mind. I initiate things myself as soon as I see a problem.
- I'm very confident, and I like winning. If I sense resistance from someone it really hypes me up, because it turns things into a lowkey competition. But I don't want to see anyone fail, that's not fun. Winning for me = getting people on that path to the good outcome with me. People like being around confident people, and when I can confidently sell the vision of my good outcome to people, a place where both of us are happy, they will follow.
- I'm also funny and friendly and casual in my manner, and this puts most folks at ease.
Most of this is just a natural part of my personality, and I only notice it when I have a very specific goal in mind and need to be very intentional about my actions. The dark side of being naturally persuasive though is that when it doesn't work...which I'll admit is rare...I become enraged. (Which I try to keep to myself/just vent to friends.)
posted by phunniemee at 1:38 PM on July 20, 2023 [38 favorites]
Being able to "read" people and intuit what sort of approach (gregarious and friendly, brisk but polite, etc) would be most effective, and the ability/willingness to be a bit of a chameleon in your interactions rather than your 100% authentic self - I'm not sure how one gains this skill other than growing up anxious in a household where one must read and cater to the unspoken moods of the authority figures at all times (not recommended), but it helps.
posted by btfreek at 1:39 PM on July 20, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by btfreek at 1:39 PM on July 20, 2023 [5 favorites]
A corollary to my above statement about winning:
I rarely go into a conversation with a me vs you attitude. It is always us vs problem. We are on the same side from the start, you and me, me and you, together in our fight against whatever mundane problem I'm having today. How can we solve it.
posted by phunniemee at 1:44 PM on July 20, 2023 [31 favorites]
I rarely go into a conversation with a me vs you attitude. It is always us vs problem. We are on the same side from the start, you and me, me and you, together in our fight against whatever mundane problem I'm having today. How can we solve it.
posted by phunniemee at 1:44 PM on July 20, 2023 [31 favorites]
I'm one of these people (female, but not with any of the gendered aspects mentioned above). When asking I ask nicely, but also with the internal attitude that it's a forgone conclusion. But this is the key, for me.
Stick around after the no. I don't mean to fight a no, but just that a lot of people's initial reaction is to say "no, we can't do that". Often, they realise soon after that, actually, it's no biggie and they can help. If you happen to be still within yelling distance checking your mail... they'll often just come over and say "look, no problem, let's do it". So always polite, kind and friendly; and then just stick around.
posted by Iteki at 1:56 PM on July 20, 2023 [17 favorites]
Stick around after the no. I don't mean to fight a no, but just that a lot of people's initial reaction is to say "no, we can't do that". Often, they realise soon after that, actually, it's no biggie and they can help. If you happen to be still within yelling distance checking your mail... they'll often just come over and say "look, no problem, let's do it". So always polite, kind and friendly; and then just stick around.
posted by Iteki at 1:56 PM on July 20, 2023 [17 favorites]
An example from when I was a teenager:
I got kicked out of Spanish class in 10th grade (political reasons). I had elite college goals and needed the additional foreign language learning to stay a good candidate.
I didn't have a lot of friends, so caught up with my teachers during class breaks and such. One of the English teachers at my school told me he had written his masters thesis on medieval religious history and had considered going to seminary. When I got kicked out of Spanish I remembered this, and chatted him up at lunch a few days later about hey do you know Latin by any chance? He sure did. Do you want to teach Latin? To me? He said he wasn't sure about that, but it was obvious he was flattered I had even thought of him.
Over the next few weeks I sought out other students--both the honor roll kids like me who wanted to look good for colleges, but also the sorta crappy ones who had dropped out of Spanish after it stopped being required--and sold them on why Latin would be good for them. Even told one kid who really liked LOTR that it was the closest we were ever going to get to learning elvish in school. Every time I got even a soft maybe I'd go back and tell that teacher, hey, alllll these people are talking about your Latin program!! Told other teachers as well, told the administrators who didn't have political problems with me. Etc.
A year later I was sitting in Latin 1 with 20 other students. The last semester of my senior year we even had a medieval history elective(!), because Latin was so successful and that teacher got a little more leeway to do a dream curriculum. The school had a Latin program for at least 5 years after, maybe longer.
I only wanted a different foreign language option for purely selfish reasons. The whole school got a Latin program because I listened to people when they talked to me, and then got a whole bunch of people to be enthusiastic about having a Latin class with me. Once enough people are excited about the idea of something, the hardest part is over.
posted by phunniemee at 2:20 PM on July 20, 2023 [40 favorites]
I got kicked out of Spanish class in 10th grade (political reasons). I had elite college goals and needed the additional foreign language learning to stay a good candidate.
I didn't have a lot of friends, so caught up with my teachers during class breaks and such. One of the English teachers at my school told me he had written his masters thesis on medieval religious history and had considered going to seminary. When I got kicked out of Spanish I remembered this, and chatted him up at lunch a few days later about hey do you know Latin by any chance? He sure did. Do you want to teach Latin? To me? He said he wasn't sure about that, but it was obvious he was flattered I had even thought of him.
Over the next few weeks I sought out other students--both the honor roll kids like me who wanted to look good for colleges, but also the sorta crappy ones who had dropped out of Spanish after it stopped being required--and sold them on why Latin would be good for them. Even told one kid who really liked LOTR that it was the closest we were ever going to get to learning elvish in school. Every time I got even a soft maybe I'd go back and tell that teacher, hey, alllll these people are talking about your Latin program!! Told other teachers as well, told the administrators who didn't have political problems with me. Etc.
A year later I was sitting in Latin 1 with 20 other students. The last semester of my senior year we even had a medieval history elective(!), because Latin was so successful and that teacher got a little more leeway to do a dream curriculum. The school had a Latin program for at least 5 years after, maybe longer.
I only wanted a different foreign language option for purely selfish reasons. The whole school got a Latin program because I listened to people when they talked to me, and then got a whole bunch of people to be enthusiastic about having a Latin class with me. Once enough people are excited about the idea of something, the hardest part is over.
posted by phunniemee at 2:20 PM on July 20, 2023 [40 favorites]
Sorry just coming back to say I haven't thought of that teacher in years and just looked him up. Appears he stopped teaching English shortly after I graduated and then taught Latin and medieval history at fancy private schools for another ten+ years 🥺😭🥺 before pivoting into private industry.
posted by phunniemee at 2:30 PM on July 20, 2023 [49 favorites]
posted by phunniemee at 2:30 PM on July 20, 2023 [49 favorites]
It would be so great if we didn't fall back on outward appearance and gender to understand this effect.
I tend to be the sort who assumes any written policy will be followed . I'm in this camp. I think we are rule-followers who get a dopamine hit from ... following rules. Having a well-ordered world is its own reward, right? Kondo.
Not for everyone. Other people respond to reward that is not intrinsic, but external -- a gold star, a "good job!".
I think your friend, and people who "win friends and influence people", understand and internalize that better than I do. They can offer and apply those rewards in exchange for what they want, and the reward is tailored to what the person finds rewarding (that's the important part). Like (and this isn't right, because I can't do it well): You'd be the BEST LANDLORD EVER if you just ordered this shiny new Samsung that's on sale! Right here at Best Buy (rule #2: make it easy).
Lather, rinse and repeat until a new kitchen arrives. Though that one is well beyond my understanding.
posted by Dashy at 3:48 PM on July 20, 2023 [1 favorite]
I tend to be the sort who assumes any written policy will be followed . I'm in this camp. I think we are rule-followers who get a dopamine hit from ... following rules. Having a well-ordered world is its own reward, right? Kondo.
Not for everyone. Other people respond to reward that is not intrinsic, but external -- a gold star, a "good job!".
I think your friend, and people who "win friends and influence people", understand and internalize that better than I do. They can offer and apply those rewards in exchange for what they want, and the reward is tailored to what the person finds rewarding (that's the important part). Like (and this isn't right, because I can't do it well): You'd be the BEST LANDLORD EVER if you just ordered this shiny new Samsung that's on sale! Right here at Best Buy (rule #2: make it easy).
Lather, rinse and repeat until a new kitchen arrives. Though that one is well beyond my understanding.
posted by Dashy at 3:48 PM on July 20, 2023 [1 favorite]
The new kitchen doesn't even seem that hard of a sell to me, if you've got a landlord who is already on board with making an improvement. In for a penny, in for a pound. Look, renovations are a pain in the ass. Here I am, a paying and steady tenant who you know won't complain about the construction noise, or the dust, or that it might take more time. I'm super on board with this, I'll keep paying my rent. An updated kitchen would be very exciting. But I need to level with you, I'm not sure what my plans are going to be two years down the line, I might need to move to a bigger place by then. Oh but hey, if that happens I'm sure you could rent the place with a fully renoed kitchen for way more!! ... etc etc etc ...
posted by phunniemee at 4:04 PM on July 20, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by phunniemee at 4:04 PM on July 20, 2023 [3 favorites]
It helps to build a habit of being nice to everybody. I mean everybody. The parking lot attendant, the receptionist at the dentist's office, the cashier, the valet, the lady on the other end of the 800 number, the dispatcher for the plumber. No matter what kind of mood you're in. People want to help out and do favors and make exceptions for people who have been nice to them, and they also remember people who haven't treated them well. (Not saying this applies to you, OP) Like any habit, if you do it enough it can start to feel like second nature - and you will be pleasantly surprised how much good will you've built up for when you really need it.
posted by Sweetie Darling at 4:04 PM on July 20, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by Sweetie Darling at 4:04 PM on July 20, 2023 [9 favorites]
I mean, I'm a woman who has aged out of being modestly attractive, and I've been surprised by how much of a pass I got by being young and kinda cute now that I don't get it anymore. It's a real thing. Depending on the crowd, context switching into a Southern drawl (I come by it honestly) can make a difference. I present as more femme than my personal inclination because people treat me noticeably better and it's worth it to me.
And, all the other stuff also does work because I've had to learn it to get stuff done. Treat service workers like individual humans, ask politely for exceptions, try laying out the outcome you want and letting them figure out the way they can get you there with the least hassle / policy violation.
posted by momus_window at 4:10 PM on July 20, 2023 [12 favorites]
And, all the other stuff also does work because I've had to learn it to get stuff done. Treat service workers like individual humans, ask politely for exceptions, try laying out the outcome you want and letting them figure out the way they can get you there with the least hassle / policy violation.
posted by momus_window at 4:10 PM on July 20, 2023 [12 favorites]
I know you have the experience of being with your friend and experiencing the "magic," but I also think it's fair to say that a lot of folks may overestimate the amount of special treatment they got after the fact. Service professionals and people who interact with the public a lot (not landlords so much) can be very good at performing just how *special* a particular interaction is and how they are making an exception for *you*. It may or may not be. Which is all to say I don't think you're missing out on a particular bit of magic, but basic courtesy and communication skills go a long way.
posted by pantarei70 at 5:01 PM on July 20, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by pantarei70 at 5:01 PM on July 20, 2023 [7 favorites]
I think you might want to take a negotiations class, I did a brilliant one in the course of doing my MBA.
A lot of it goes into theory of mind - there is the truism that beginner players (of any game) play the game from their perspective, and more advanced players play the game from their opponent's perspective. You imagine you're sitting in their seat, making their plans and contingencies. Some people can do this naturally, while some are endlessly stuck in their own personal perspective.
For example, the landlord one - I am a landlord. I know that one day I will have to update the kitchen because its old and whenever some appliance breaks its a huge pain, parts for a 15-20 year oven are expensive and hard to find and why am I wasting hundreds of dollars on something that's nearly at the end of its useful life when I could buy a new one? One tenant broke the oven handle, another complained that the oven stopped working and a sensor needed to be replaced. Unfortunately, most likely I will have to wait until the tenant leaves, then get in the builders to quote, then they might only start work 1 month later due to their schedule, and who knows if they'll be done in about 2 months. Then I will have to advertise for new tenants, which costs money, and take another month to get them in. And then I'm not even sure if the new tenants are going to maintain the place well, I had a set of tenants that maliciously decided to stop paying rent and trash the place and disappeared leaving me with a $13,000 bill which is impossible for me to pursue (it takes years in court) and honestly the laws are incredibly in the favour of renters with evictions nearly impossible to execute but that's another rant. So say losing 4 months of rent and paying advertising and re-letting fees is $9,000 plus the uncertainty of getting a good tenant.
If my current tenant came up with a proposal that would save me $9,000 by being willing to continue paying me rent (with no reduction) while the kitchen got renovated, would I take it? YES IN A HEARTBEAT. I will also install a brand new efficient climate control system for you!
One simple negotiation scenario I experienced in the class - you're given reams of information to be used to convince another executive to approve this project - you're certain this makes perfect sense for the company, you have tables and charts and graphs showing how this is going to be massively profitable and you're not sure why the other person rejected it in the board meeting, and he has been avoiding you since, so you've set up a 1:1 meeting with them, you have 15 minutes to convince them, and you were given several hours to prepare the pitch.
But the other person had a totally different information pack going in - nothing about the project at all - the background they're given is that in another board meeting you had insulted him and belittled his team, and since that day he has determined not to work with you until you put things right, and if you're too dumb to realise what you did then you're not worth engaging with.
If you spent that 15 minutes delivering the most beautifully prepared business pitch in the world, it would have gotten you absolutely nowhere and you would have failed that portion of the assessment.
So one lesson is that everyone has their own personal agenda, the trick is being empathetic, being able to truly listen, have an open and curious mind, be able to coax out what they want and infer the rest, even if they can't tell you directly (another scenario was negotiating with a private agent who was under strict confidentiality instructions not to reveal certain information about their client and what they actually wanted or were willing to give). Very often the other party has a vested interest in NOT letting you know what they want, how much they're willing to compromise, they by default take the tough approach, follow the rules, follow the process.
posted by xdvesper at 5:08 PM on July 20, 2023 [16 favorites]
A lot of it goes into theory of mind - there is the truism that beginner players (of any game) play the game from their perspective, and more advanced players play the game from their opponent's perspective. You imagine you're sitting in their seat, making their plans and contingencies. Some people can do this naturally, while some are endlessly stuck in their own personal perspective.
For example, the landlord one - I am a landlord. I know that one day I will have to update the kitchen because its old and whenever some appliance breaks its a huge pain, parts for a 15-20 year oven are expensive and hard to find and why am I wasting hundreds of dollars on something that's nearly at the end of its useful life when I could buy a new one? One tenant broke the oven handle, another complained that the oven stopped working and a sensor needed to be replaced. Unfortunately, most likely I will have to wait until the tenant leaves, then get in the builders to quote, then they might only start work 1 month later due to their schedule, and who knows if they'll be done in about 2 months. Then I will have to advertise for new tenants, which costs money, and take another month to get them in. And then I'm not even sure if the new tenants are going to maintain the place well, I had a set of tenants that maliciously decided to stop paying rent and trash the place and disappeared leaving me with a $13,000 bill which is impossible for me to pursue (it takes years in court) and honestly the laws are incredibly in the favour of renters with evictions nearly impossible to execute but that's another rant. So say losing 4 months of rent and paying advertising and re-letting fees is $9,000 plus the uncertainty of getting a good tenant.
If my current tenant came up with a proposal that would save me $9,000 by being willing to continue paying me rent (with no reduction) while the kitchen got renovated, would I take it? YES IN A HEARTBEAT. I will also install a brand new efficient climate control system for you!
One simple negotiation scenario I experienced in the class - you're given reams of information to be used to convince another executive to approve this project - you're certain this makes perfect sense for the company, you have tables and charts and graphs showing how this is going to be massively profitable and you're not sure why the other person rejected it in the board meeting, and he has been avoiding you since, so you've set up a 1:1 meeting with them, you have 15 minutes to convince them, and you were given several hours to prepare the pitch.
But the other person had a totally different information pack going in - nothing about the project at all - the background they're given is that in another board meeting you had insulted him and belittled his team, and since that day he has determined not to work with you until you put things right, and if you're too dumb to realise what you did then you're not worth engaging with.
If you spent that 15 minutes delivering the most beautifully prepared business pitch in the world, it would have gotten you absolutely nowhere and you would have failed that portion of the assessment.
So one lesson is that everyone has their own personal agenda, the trick is being empathetic, being able to truly listen, have an open and curious mind, be able to coax out what they want and infer the rest, even if they can't tell you directly (another scenario was negotiating with a private agent who was under strict confidentiality instructions not to reveal certain information about their client and what they actually wanted or were willing to give). Very often the other party has a vested interest in NOT letting you know what they want, how much they're willing to compromise, they by default take the tough approach, follow the rules, follow the process.
posted by xdvesper at 5:08 PM on July 20, 2023 [16 favorites]
I'm a giant, non-beautiful dude who doesn't seem helpless at all - but I can ask for things. Always bring requests calmly and friendly and confident - but directly - as if there are no stakes at hand whether or not you get what you want. (If you seem agitated or anxious or even nervy about wanting something, people will always keep you at arm's length.)
"So, I've got a quick question. I'm sorry to ask..."
It's important here to clarify that what's about to follow is in fact a request, and by combining it with a mild apology I indicate that I'm at least reasonably self-aware about it and this isn't some weird entitlement thing. Having worked in customer service environments, people burst in and are like "give me this" all the time. A little self-awareness and willingness to work together goes a long way.
"... and I totally understand if it's not in the cards..."
Let them off the hook early. Again, no stakes. People will usually take this as "I've got an interesting one for you" or "oh wow, this is going to be bad" (which will lead to relief when the ask is for something reasonable).
"... but I [really liked] [was really hoping for] [was looking for] this particular thing..."
Clarify what you want. Make it specific. If possible, give a good reason for why you want it, or give them the impression you know whatever it is you want is limited. Giving an indication that you had been on the receiving end of the thing before can be helpful too. Just be nice and conversational about it.
"... is that [available] [something you could do]?"
Indicate that you don't assume you're going to get everything you want, but they might just have the opportunity to grant your wish, and it's going to (hopefully) be kind of fun for everyone involved - while never saying you expect it to happen.
In response, you may well get an offer of "We can't do that... but we could do this". Being able to clarify the important aspect of the ask is paramount here to further refine things or politely turn them down is important.
Then tip well.
posted by I EAT TAPAS at 5:16 PM on July 20, 2023 [30 favorites]
"So, I've got a quick question. I'm sorry to ask..."
It's important here to clarify that what's about to follow is in fact a request, and by combining it with a mild apology I indicate that I'm at least reasonably self-aware about it and this isn't some weird entitlement thing. Having worked in customer service environments, people burst in and are like "give me this" all the time. A little self-awareness and willingness to work together goes a long way.
"... and I totally understand if it's not in the cards..."
Let them off the hook early. Again, no stakes. People will usually take this as "I've got an interesting one for you" or "oh wow, this is going to be bad" (which will lead to relief when the ask is for something reasonable).
"... but I [really liked] [was really hoping for] [was looking for] this particular thing..."
Clarify what you want. Make it specific. If possible, give a good reason for why you want it, or give them the impression you know whatever it is you want is limited. Giving an indication that you had been on the receiving end of the thing before can be helpful too. Just be nice and conversational about it.
"... is that [available] [something you could do]?"
Indicate that you don't assume you're going to get everything you want, but they might just have the opportunity to grant your wish, and it's going to (hopefully) be kind of fun for everyone involved - while never saying you expect it to happen.
In response, you may well get an offer of "We can't do that... but we could do this". Being able to clarify the important aspect of the ask is paramount here to further refine things or politely turn them down is important.
Then tip well.
posted by I EAT TAPAS at 5:16 PM on July 20, 2023 [30 favorites]
I can sometimes do this. Always be friendly and polite, in a way that indicates that you will continue to be friendly and polite even if the answer is no. I EAT TAPAS' script is excellent (I am taking notes), but body language is important too.
And to help with the body language and mindset, I assume that they are a nice, reasonable person who will of course help me out with this little thing. And honestly, most people are nice and helpful! Not in a break the law or risk their job way, but where there's a bit of discretion most people will help someone who's being nice to them. Whereas if you go in assuming they'll say no, I feel a bit of that gets conveyed in your body language or tone and it makes it really easy for them to say no to you.
I should stress that assuming positivity is not the same thing as being entitled. (Or at least I really hope that's not how I come across). I also prepare myself for the possibility that I might not get what I want, but the worst they can do is say no, and I'm no worse off than if I hadn't asked.
Also depending on context, don't underestimate how contagious enthusiasm can be! If you're really enthusiastic about something, it's easier to persuade people to come along with you.
posted by pianissimo at 6:07 PM on July 20, 2023 [4 favorites]
And to help with the body language and mindset, I assume that they are a nice, reasonable person who will of course help me out with this little thing. And honestly, most people are nice and helpful! Not in a break the law or risk their job way, but where there's a bit of discretion most people will help someone who's being nice to them. Whereas if you go in assuming they'll say no, I feel a bit of that gets conveyed in your body language or tone and it makes it really easy for them to say no to you.
I should stress that assuming positivity is not the same thing as being entitled. (Or at least I really hope that's not how I come across). I also prepare myself for the possibility that I might not get what I want, but the worst they can do is say no, and I'm no worse off than if I hadn't asked.
Also depending on context, don't underestimate how contagious enthusiasm can be! If you're really enthusiastic about something, it's easier to persuade people to come along with you.
posted by pianissimo at 6:07 PM on July 20, 2023 [4 favorites]
Subtext. And seeing the world from their perspective -- good theory of mind skill -- and communicating (in words or subtextually) why it's going to make them happy to say yes.
posted by amtho at 7:31 PM on July 20, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by amtho at 7:31 PM on July 20, 2023 [1 favorite]
I've got a "Say yes to the dress" video for you: this woman goes to Kleinfeld's bridal without an appointment, two days before her vow renewal, gets in, gets a perfect dress AND Randy volunteers to officiate her wedding/vow renewal. A lot of things had to line up. The receptionist was sympathetic. The owner was sympathetic. The consultant was sympathetic. Randy happened to have just gotten licensed to officiate weddings. The dress designer was there that day (she appears in a lot of episodes) and said if Randy's officiating, then I wanna come too.
https://youtu.be/puFICS0-U1E
I remember watching this the first time a few weeks ago and thinking, geez what are the chances that someone walks in with no appointment, gets in, and walks out with a dress and Randy officiating? I don't think this bride did anything special - she took a risk, she was slightly desperate, and I think she embodied a lot of the advice and scenarios here. She got really lucky. She could have been told no. Of course this could have been a set up for good tv, but at least you have an idea of what this could look like IRL.
I remember many years ago, a co-worker who was really good at connecting with service workers and they ended up wanting to do things for her. She was good at making people feel special and charming them and I think in some ways people want to give special service to certain people. So if you can tap into that desire, that's the key.
posted by foxjacket at 7:59 PM on July 20, 2023 [2 favorites]
https://youtu.be/puFICS0-U1E
I remember watching this the first time a few weeks ago and thinking, geez what are the chances that someone walks in with no appointment, gets in, and walks out with a dress and Randy officiating? I don't think this bride did anything special - she took a risk, she was slightly desperate, and I think she embodied a lot of the advice and scenarios here. She got really lucky. She could have been told no. Of course this could have been a set up for good tv, but at least you have an idea of what this could look like IRL.
I remember many years ago, a co-worker who was really good at connecting with service workers and they ended up wanting to do things for her. She was good at making people feel special and charming them and I think in some ways people want to give special service to certain people. So if you can tap into that desire, that's the key.
posted by foxjacket at 7:59 PM on July 20, 2023 [2 favorites]
I took a negotiation class as a masters elective where the syllabus sounded like a lot, of the advice above. The prof’s book (that he taught out of) was called Getting More. Negotiation but collaborative. I should reread it for dealing with my 4yo; he specifically pitched working with kids as a selling point.
posted by supercres at 9:11 PM on July 20, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by supercres at 9:11 PM on July 20, 2023 [2 favorites]
Ah, kids are the best negotiators!
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/life-negotiation/202103/how-use-your-inner-child-be-better-negotiator
posted by SageTrail at 10:11 PM on July 20, 2023
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/life-negotiation/202103/how-use-your-inner-child-be-better-negotiator
posted by SageTrail at 10:11 PM on July 20, 2023
One time I was traveling by myself to a conference for work. After landing, I headed to the car rentals to pick up my vehicle. When I arrived at the lobby, there were a couple people ahead of me in line. They seemed irate and in a hurry, and made their attitudes known to the employees behind the counter. When I got to the counter, I was relaxed and polite, and the staff said they would upgrade my vehicle for free. I ended up with a slightly larger vehicle than planned I think.
It was well past sunset when I got to my hotel. Again, there were people before me in line at the hotel lobby and, not the same people as earlier, but again unhappy and vocal about it. When it was my turn, I maintained my sweeter disposition and hotel staff free-upgraded me from a standard hotel room to one of the most expensive suites I have ever been in all by my lonesome: Multiple bedrooms, big jacuzzi bathtub that can fit multiple people, kitchen/bar, a private outside hot tub, an in-your-face chandelier..
So if the people ahead of you in line are acting negatively toward the staff, be the contrast. (But you should be kind to people anyway. Probably live longer.)
posted by Seboshin at 10:20 PM on July 20, 2023 [4 favorites]
It was well past sunset when I got to my hotel. Again, there were people before me in line at the hotel lobby and, not the same people as earlier, but again unhappy and vocal about it. When it was my turn, I maintained my sweeter disposition and hotel staff free-upgraded me from a standard hotel room to one of the most expensive suites I have ever been in all by my lonesome: Multiple bedrooms, big jacuzzi bathtub that can fit multiple people, kitchen/bar, a private outside hot tub, an in-your-face chandelier..
So if the people ahead of you in line are acting negatively toward the staff, be the contrast. (But you should be kind to people anyway. Probably live longer.)
posted by Seboshin at 10:20 PM on July 20, 2023 [4 favorites]
I am in agreement with those who shared their successful strategies, but I also want to emphasize, that a lot of this can be culturally dependent. Parts of the set of tactics and general strategy seem to travel well across cultures, others less. Does this relate to your physicality? More than most care to admit but also less than you really think (when it comes to non-negotiable physical traits).
I contest the notion that such successful negotiators aren't rule followers - it's more accurate to me to describe them as being able to identify another set of rules and operate accordingly. Does this handicap those on the autistic spectrum? Perhaps, but not always (my family is an example).
Here's my breakdown for you though:
- the main challenge as I see it (and you can postmortem your example conversation with your boss) is that you are likely not used to setting out statements that invite some offer. In the broadest sense you have to practice asking for things (with an optimistic outlook without necessarily expecting it). That would be the ramp-up for you, imo, so that you get closer to the mode of thinking shared by your friend and people who are good at haggling (to use a common cultural practice that seems to be forgotten in more formalized economies).
- the other thing i'd like you to notice is how many favours your friends does, either in reciprocation or just in paying it forward, and in terms of actual things or in thought (the way she talks about people). Generous people invite good fortune, not in any woo-woo kind of way, but something in their mannerisms (to use a metaphor, they don't go through life with a clenched hand) that disarms people. It's not so much your friend is super persuasive, it's likely you're seeing another expression of their generosity. Could be some of those instances that you're thinking of wasn't exactly she getting some bonus but how she framed the situation to make it look like a little help was a big deal.
- going back to the rule-following thing - this is the most difficult. What I'm making very visible here are two things: there's a fine line between pushy and persuasive; and there's a fine line between looking for a little gap in the rules and rules lawyering. One of them feels fun and in fact invites the other side to be part of the scheme/fun, one is antagonistic and is responded to as less of an ask, but more of a demand.
- To be blunt, when viewed from a personality lens that's not adept at it, such a person feels opportunistic. But I'd argue it looks opportunistic but the person is just in the habit to think in terms of, "I wonder if...?". So the other characteristic I think worth cultivating is curiosity, alongside sympathy (which should come when cultivating the generosity mentioned above).
Once you can get the hang of the mindset, a lot of the provided example scripts and tactics above will start to make sense.
posted by cendawanita at 2:22 AM on July 21, 2023 [12 favorites]
I contest the notion that such successful negotiators aren't rule followers - it's more accurate to me to describe them as being able to identify another set of rules and operate accordingly. Does this handicap those on the autistic spectrum? Perhaps, but not always (my family is an example).
Here's my breakdown for you though:
- the main challenge as I see it (and you can postmortem your example conversation with your boss) is that you are likely not used to setting out statements that invite some offer. In the broadest sense you have to practice asking for things (with an optimistic outlook without necessarily expecting it). That would be the ramp-up for you, imo, so that you get closer to the mode of thinking shared by your friend and people who are good at haggling (to use a common cultural practice that seems to be forgotten in more formalized economies).
- the other thing i'd like you to notice is how many favours your friends does, either in reciprocation or just in paying it forward, and in terms of actual things or in thought (the way she talks about people). Generous people invite good fortune, not in any woo-woo kind of way, but something in their mannerisms (to use a metaphor, they don't go through life with a clenched hand) that disarms people. It's not so much your friend is super persuasive, it's likely you're seeing another expression of their generosity. Could be some of those instances that you're thinking of wasn't exactly she getting some bonus but how she framed the situation to make it look like a little help was a big deal.
- going back to the rule-following thing - this is the most difficult. What I'm making very visible here are two things: there's a fine line between pushy and persuasive; and there's a fine line between looking for a little gap in the rules and rules lawyering. One of them feels fun and in fact invites the other side to be part of the scheme/fun, one is antagonistic and is responded to as less of an ask, but more of a demand.
- To be blunt, when viewed from a personality lens that's not adept at it, such a person feels opportunistic. But I'd argue it looks opportunistic but the person is just in the habit to think in terms of, "I wonder if...?". So the other characteristic I think worth cultivating is curiosity, alongside sympathy (which should come when cultivating the generosity mentioned above).
Once you can get the hang of the mindset, a lot of the provided example scripts and tactics above will start to make sense.
posted by cendawanita at 2:22 AM on July 21, 2023 [12 favorites]
My in-laws are like this. I came from a very different background, and their success with people completely mystifies me. But I think the keys are friendliness, optimism, and cognitive and emotional flexibility. Asking questions can feel super risky and stressful if you aren't good at responding in the moment. That stress leaches into the social experience and I suspect it makes a no much more likely.
posted by eirias at 5:29 AM on July 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by eirias at 5:29 AM on July 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: I think the reason here, then, is anxiety. I do have some of the traits of persuasive people listed here, and I have been able to get things that have surprised others in the past. I ultimately don’t feel very persuasive, though, because I don’t get the things that are really important to me, since people can tell I’m stressed about the possibility of a “no”.
So my updated question is - how can I convincingly pretend not to care? I feel like people can smell anxiety even when you pretend to be relaxed. And how do you do this when, due to the nature of the request, other people could easily predict that a “no” would really bother you?
posted by wheatlets at 6:11 AM on July 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
So my updated question is - how can I convincingly pretend not to care? I feel like people can smell anxiety even when you pretend to be relaxed. And how do you do this when, due to the nature of the request, other people could easily predict that a “no” would really bother you?
posted by wheatlets at 6:11 AM on July 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
the main challenge as I see it (and you can postmortem your example conversation with your boss) is that you are likely not used to setting out statements that invite some offer. In the broadest sense you have to
When an autistic family decides to study social skills, you can see the awesome power of a truly special interest.
posted by amtho at 6:28 AM on July 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
When an autistic family decides to study social skills, you can see the awesome power of a truly special interest.
posted by amtho at 6:28 AM on July 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
how can I convincingly pretend not to care? I feel like people can smell anxiety even when you pretend to be relaxed. And how do you do this when, due to the nature of the request, other people could easily predict that a “no” would really bother you?
Agree with Rock 'em Sock 'em. Why not lean into that desire/want? Most people, within their scope of power, can really be persuaded to wield it sympathetically. I guess the difficulty is the anxiety - something about that can really cause an array of responses (and that very much depends on culture + personality I find). That said though, I think the anxiety is making your brain spend less time on being generous on yourself. It's not so much about pretending you don't care, you have to genuinely be okay to fail at the ask. "Ah, well, I tried," should at least be the goal for your mind, and not, "oh no, that was so embarassing, that was so stupid," etc etc
posted by cendawanita at 8:18 AM on July 21, 2023
Agree with Rock 'em Sock 'em. Why not lean into that desire/want? Most people, within their scope of power, can really be persuaded to wield it sympathetically. I guess the difficulty is the anxiety - something about that can really cause an array of responses (and that very much depends on culture + personality I find). That said though, I think the anxiety is making your brain spend less time on being generous on yourself. It's not so much about pretending you don't care, you have to genuinely be okay to fail at the ask. "Ah, well, I tried," should at least be the goal for your mind, and not, "oh no, that was so embarassing, that was so stupid," etc etc
posted by cendawanita at 8:18 AM on July 21, 2023
There's the classic MeFi comment of ask vs guess culture. This term is now a known concept outside Metafilter.
posted by oceano at 8:42 AM on July 21, 2023
posted by oceano at 8:42 AM on July 21, 2023
So my updated question is - how can I convincingly pretend not to care? I feel like people can smell anxiety even when you pretend to be relaxed. And how do you do this when, due to the nature of the request, other people could easily predict that a “no” would really bother you?
I negotiate for a living and have gotten some pretty amazing outcomes in both work and my personal life. The key for me is to never walk into a situation feeling desperate. I prevent this by going through the situation and thinking through what would happen if I don’t get what I want, and developing a Best Alternative To A Negotiated Solution (BATNA). Often the process of developing a BATNA makes me realize that I don’t need whatever it is I am after that much anyway, and sometimes, I even end up liking it more than what I would get from the other party. Of course, humans being what they are, the less needy you seem, the more people want to give you things.
That said, in interpersonal situations, sometimes you can’t beat the power of a simple and heartfelt request for help. Often, people will respond to that more than anything that seems to be seeking a trade-off.
posted by rpfields at 9:02 AM on July 21, 2023
I negotiate for a living and have gotten some pretty amazing outcomes in both work and my personal life. The key for me is to never walk into a situation feeling desperate. I prevent this by going through the situation and thinking through what would happen if I don’t get what I want, and developing a Best Alternative To A Negotiated Solution (BATNA). Often the process of developing a BATNA makes me realize that I don’t need whatever it is I am after that much anyway, and sometimes, I even end up liking it more than what I would get from the other party. Of course, humans being what they are, the less needy you seem, the more people want to give you things.
That said, in interpersonal situations, sometimes you can’t beat the power of a simple and heartfelt request for help. Often, people will respond to that more than anything that seems to be seeking a trade-off.
posted by rpfields at 9:02 AM on July 21, 2023
Im thinking about your boss and her new kitchen, and part of her "slowly and calmly" might be playing a long game. I work in interior design, and I interact with a lot of contractors/trades/showrooms and sometimes I can manage to pull some things off that shouldnt really happen.
Long game: We are always nice and respectful to everyone we work with- super polite, buy drinks/bring snacks/lunch occasionally, pay on time, remember personal details (kids/wives ect). Also, if we are working through an issue we ask for their opinion on what will work best. We might not use their idea, but being a good collaborator makes everyone feel like they are respected in their speciality. We also try not to be the people asking for insane deadlines, and when we can we are flexible.
All this is just how we want to run a company and treat people, but it also builds a ton of goodwill. So when I do have to call being like "im sorry to have to ask this but the client wants this redone/I need this so quickly and i know its crazy" people are more willing to help. I also try to come up with ways to make the request easier on them "can i go to the warehouse and grab it for you" so it doesnt feel like Im just demanding. Massive amounts of thanks happen after and if i can talk someone up to their boss/manager I absolutely send that email/make that phone call.
So, if your boss was always the nice tenant who didn't ask for insane things, is respectful of his time and property, generally nice, and always pays her rent on time then i can see how she could have easily built enough good will to go from "my fridge is broken" to "I saw my neighbor's kitchen and it looks so good! While we are working on the fridge can we consider upgrading mine to match hers too?"
(I would say this works for us 80% of the time. Occasionally we have a bad apple and I have to act as "the heavy" for my boss and get us through the situation. If we have to do this we usually wont work with them again)
posted by zara at 9:20 AM on July 21, 2023
Long game: We are always nice and respectful to everyone we work with- super polite, buy drinks/bring snacks/lunch occasionally, pay on time, remember personal details (kids/wives ect). Also, if we are working through an issue we ask for their opinion on what will work best. We might not use their idea, but being a good collaborator makes everyone feel like they are respected in their speciality. We also try not to be the people asking for insane deadlines, and when we can we are flexible.
All this is just how we want to run a company and treat people, but it also builds a ton of goodwill. So when I do have to call being like "im sorry to have to ask this but the client wants this redone/I need this so quickly and i know its crazy" people are more willing to help. I also try to come up with ways to make the request easier on them "can i go to the warehouse and grab it for you" so it doesnt feel like Im just demanding. Massive amounts of thanks happen after and if i can talk someone up to their boss/manager I absolutely send that email/make that phone call.
So, if your boss was always the nice tenant who didn't ask for insane things, is respectful of his time and property, generally nice, and always pays her rent on time then i can see how she could have easily built enough good will to go from "my fridge is broken" to "I saw my neighbor's kitchen and it looks so good! While we are working on the fridge can we consider upgrading mine to match hers too?"
(I would say this works for us 80% of the time. Occasionally we have a bad apple and I have to act as "the heavy" for my boss and get us through the situation. If we have to do this we usually wont work with them again)
posted by zara at 9:20 AM on July 21, 2023
So my updated question is - how can I convincingly pretend not to care? I feel like people can smell anxiety even when you pretend to be relaxed. And how do you do this when, due to the nature of the request, other people could easily predict that a “no” would really bother you?
Yeah, this is really a kind of different scenario than the ones originally proposed. I think it's easy to consider someone universally persuasive when you know they are persuasive in the context of being your friend (magically convincing the group to do x or y, etc), but you don't know that that person is as convincing when they are on the phone with their health insurance company. Just as you suggest, when you NEED something as opposed to just breezily desiring it, you will exude edginess, which starts working against you.
The first thing I'd recommend is to NOT treat the situation as adversarial. Approach people and systems like you have a mutual problem that you are going to solve. The second thing is to pretend to know less than you do. Appeal to the person on the other end as a respected expert, even if they're just some employee looking stuff up in a call center. Use the word "we." What can WE do? Obviously, be polite. Do not hide that you're stressed or nervous. I often start these scenarios by admitting that I'm slightly freaking out and that my explanations might be scattered.
You can also play any major sympathy cards that you have, though you should try not to make it blatant. Mention these factors in passing, but don't say something like, "I'm a CHEMO patient, isn't there anything you can DO?"
Keep in mind that one call isn't going to make or break things, so that you don't feel like the world is going to end if you hang up without reaching a resolution. Have your next step in mind before you end the call. Be persistent. You may have to "innocently" call people several times "looking for updates." After a while, they are going to want you to go away, and may find a way to make that happen.
Whenever possible, go to offices in person. It's a lot harder to say no to someone directly in front of you.
posted by desert outpost at 1:21 PM on July 21, 2023
Yeah, this is really a kind of different scenario than the ones originally proposed. I think it's easy to consider someone universally persuasive when you know they are persuasive in the context of being your friend (magically convincing the group to do x or y, etc), but you don't know that that person is as convincing when they are on the phone with their health insurance company. Just as you suggest, when you NEED something as opposed to just breezily desiring it, you will exude edginess, which starts working against you.
The first thing I'd recommend is to NOT treat the situation as adversarial. Approach people and systems like you have a mutual problem that you are going to solve. The second thing is to pretend to know less than you do. Appeal to the person on the other end as a respected expert, even if they're just some employee looking stuff up in a call center. Use the word "we." What can WE do? Obviously, be polite. Do not hide that you're stressed or nervous. I often start these scenarios by admitting that I'm slightly freaking out and that my explanations might be scattered.
You can also play any major sympathy cards that you have, though you should try not to make it blatant. Mention these factors in passing, but don't say something like, "I'm a CHEMO patient, isn't there anything you can DO?"
Keep in mind that one call isn't going to make or break things, so that you don't feel like the world is going to end if you hang up without reaching a resolution. Have your next step in mind before you end the call. Be persistent. You may have to "innocently" call people several times "looking for updates." After a while, they are going to want you to go away, and may find a way to make that happen.
Whenever possible, go to offices in person. It's a lot harder to say no to someone directly in front of you.
posted by desert outpost at 1:21 PM on July 21, 2023
>Stick around after the no. I don't mean to fight a no, but just that a lot of people's initial reaction >is to say "no, we can't do that". Often, they realise soon after that, actually, it's no biggie and >they can help. If you happen to be still within yelling distance checking your mail... they'll often >just come over and say "look, no problem, let's do it". So always polite, kind and friendly; and >then just stick around.
This has happened to me so many times. Be as gracious and nice as you can if that "no" does happen.
Think of it as a little "character test". If you decide to do radio silence after the "no" - that does not look great. If you decide offer a curt "ok, thanks anyway". That still does not impress. If you decide to say "oh, I know you must have been so busy. I fully understand. Thank you again for taking time to review the request". Now that's a person you might actually want to work with. That's a person who might flex your own rules for. That's a person who might make room in your diary for.
posted by jacobean at 5:57 AM on July 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
This has happened to me so many times. Be as gracious and nice as you can if that "no" does happen.
Think of it as a little "character test". If you decide to do radio silence after the "no" - that does not look great. If you decide offer a curt "ok, thanks anyway". That still does not impress. If you decide to say "oh, I know you must have been so busy. I fully understand. Thank you again for taking time to review the request". Now that's a person you might actually want to work with. That's a person who might flex your own rules for. That's a person who might make room in your diary for.
posted by jacobean at 5:57 AM on July 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
I have a friend like your friend. She could be miles away from civilization, get a flat tire, and people would materialize and demand to change it, buy her dinner, offer her a place to stay. She's pretty, talented, kind, a splendid person who has genuine charisma. I once got near Bill Clinton after a speech; the charisma was palpable. I also got near Hillary Clinton after a different speech, she doesn't have the same charisma coming out of every pore and has had to work at it. I suspect the same is true of Michelle Obama, smart, hard-working, popular, who became an icon.
For most of us, power, in the form of status, money, prestige, physical achievement, confers persuasiveness. When I've had certain jobs, I had more status and people thought I was maybe kinda cool. I'm old and choose to live simply, and that has no status, but I prefer simple living anyway.
Bullies demand money, subservience, power, and are often successful at persuasion, but they enshittify the world.
A person I know has no innate charisma, was an awkward young adult, is smart and financially extremely successful. I've seen their books, and they read widely, including books about persuasion, winning friends and influencing people, etc., and they have learned a fair bit of persuasion, present with more confidence, and that, plus wealth, gives them status and power. They're a decent person, generally.
Learn the skills. Watch people and emulate the ones who have power but are decent. it's more difficult for women, maleness confers some status, but women do it successfully all the time. I do wish I'd learned not to give away power way earlier in life. Stand your ground. People like you better when you respect yourself and have strong boundaries. Read America Ferrera's speech from Barbie, which I think is worth putting here, and remember that women do all this, and still become successful leaders:
For most of us, power, in the form of status, money, prestige, physical achievement, confers persuasiveness. When I've had certain jobs, I had more status and people thought I was maybe kinda cool. I'm old and choose to live simply, and that has no status, but I prefer simple living anyway.
Bullies demand money, subservience, power, and are often successful at persuasion, but they enshittify the world.
A person I know has no innate charisma, was an awkward young adult, is smart and financially extremely successful. I've seen their books, and they read widely, including books about persuasion, winning friends and influencing people, etc., and they have learned a fair bit of persuasion, present with more confidence, and that, plus wealth, gives them status and power. They're a decent person, generally.
Learn the skills. Watch people and emulate the ones who have power but are decent. it's more difficult for women, maleness confers some status, but women do it successfully all the time. I do wish I'd learned not to give away power way earlier in life. Stand your ground. People like you better when you respect yourself and have strong boundaries. Read America Ferrera's speech from Barbie, which I think is worth putting here, and remember that women do all this, and still become successful leaders:
It is literally impossible to be a woman. You are so beautiful, and so smart, and it kills me that you don’t think you’re good enough. Like, we have to always be extraordinary, but somehow we’re always doing it wrong.posted by theora55 at 9:18 AM on July 26, 2023 [1 favorite]
You have to be thin, but not too thin. And you can never say you want to be thin. You have to say you want to be healthy, but also you have to be thin. You have to have money, but you can’t ask for money because that’s crass. You have to be a boss, but you can’t be mean. You have to lead, but you can’t squash other people’s ideas. You’re supposed to love being a mother, but don’t talk about your kids all the damn time. You have to be a career woman, but also always be looking out for other people. You have to answer for men’s bad behavior, which is insane, but if you point that out, you’re accused of complaining. You’re supposed to stay pretty for men, but not so pretty that you tempt them too much or that you threaten other women because you’re supposed to be a part of the sisterhood.
But always stand out and always be grateful. But never forget that the system is rigged. So find a way to acknowledge that but also always be grateful. You have to never get old, never be rude, never show off, never be selfish, never fall down, never fail, never show fear, never get out of line. It’s too hard! It’s too contradictory and nobody gives you a medal or says thank you! And it turns out in fact that not only are you doing everything wrong, but also everything is your fault.
I’m just so tired of watching myself and every single other woman tie herself into knots so that people will like us. And if all of that is also true for a doll just representing women, then I don’t even know.
Another thing is, apart from the one-off times of getting people to do something out of the ordinary (in my case very often getting free access to conference rooms when I am just a regular hotel guest so me and my friends can play DnD or watch movies), people are often astounded at how often I get great service, or something above and beyond (example of a store handing me a parcel outside of the official opening hours, almost a hanging crime where I live), and the answer is: I am a really good customer. I say please and thank you, I put my groceries on the conveyor belt with the bar-code facing the reader, I don't use my phone while I am being served, if I pass people I know from service contexts on the street I give them a nod. If you treat people badly or nonchalantly they are rarely gonna want good things for you.
posted by Iteki at 2:16 PM on July 29, 2023
posted by Iteki at 2:16 PM on July 29, 2023
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posted by Melismata at 1:14 PM on July 20, 2023 [3 favorites]