Loud, vindictive neighbors are ruining my parents' lives. Help!
June 19, 2022 10:42 PM   Subscribe

My elderly parents are in an untenable living situation at their (unexpectedly) conservative retirement community. They have a 0 lot line home and their newish next door neighbors abuse it mercilessly, banging trash cans up against my parents' bedroom walls, letting their abused dogs bark ceaselessly for hours, etc. My parents can't sleep, and they can't report these neighbors because the community's HOA is atrociously inept and may retaliate against my folks as opposed to the neighbors. I fear for their health and their lifespan. What can I do?

Obviously the most ideal move here is to move them. Right now, even though everything is at its worst, they won't entertain the idea because moving is such an ordeal and they've been priced out of all the neighborhoods they'd want to return to in our hometown. (SoCal)

Given how loud these people are we are hoping that SOMEONE will eventually complain, especially since you can hear them saying horrible things to the dogs they let bark for hours on end. And it's not just the sound, either. There are vibrations that rattle the walls and windows across my parents' place, even in one of the corners furthest from their backyard where they are the loudest.

Compounding issues include:

My dad has central sleep apnea and is going on 4 days straight with no sleep. Neighbors don't care.

My mom is immunocompromised. Neighbors don't care and talk at length with the 5-10 people they have over each week about how vaccines are a joke.

I am not allowed to encourage a certain neighborhood skunk to visit.

What can I do? I feel so helpless. I can't visit and help with chores when my parents are exhausted and sick. I can't call their HOA. I cannot to the neighbors myself. We can't sue them for damages.

Please advise. I am desperate. I have $50k saved and they may have ~$100k set aside for me for my first house. I will spend it all to get them to safety.
posted by The Adventure Begins to Human Relations (28 answers total)
 
Could they file a city noise complaint rather than an HOA one? What about the neighbors on the other side of the noisy neighbors? Any support there? Could you rent an Airbnb for a couple of days just to allow them to get some rest for a few nights?
posted by raccoon409 at 10:47 PM on June 19, 2022 [4 favorites]


Response by poster: I had not considered Airbnb. How direct can I be with hosts about their Covid cleaning between guests? I don't want to mention that both my folks are slightly immunocompromised due to profound sleep deprivation but I do need to suss out how seriously a host takes the cleaning requirements.
posted by The Adventure Begins at 12:45 AM on June 20, 2022


I think in 2022 it is perfectly reasonable to ask an Airbnb host, "What are your COVID safety protocols?" That being said, there may not be a whole lot of inventory available. And if that is the case, it may be reassuring to remember that there are greater risks to your parents safety than COVID cleaning protocols/ surface transmission. Please also help them get a ride to the nearest available airbnb/ hotel, because a) the current situation is untenable b) it is definitely unsafe for them to drive c) the shorter the drive, the shorter the same time they are sharing air with someone else.
posted by oceano at 1:50 AM on June 20, 2022 [2 favorites]


You can call animal control for your parents area and make an anonymous complaint.
posted by DarlingBri at 2:00 AM on June 20, 2022 [16 favorites]


Contact Animal Control. In my jurisdiction, Code Enforcement can't do much about a noise complaint, even if you give them a graph from a calibrated sound level meter with a supercut of the loud parts. Animal Control does follow up on complaints, and even if they can only issue a warning about the barking, they can issue citations for the dogs not being properly licensed and not having vaccine paperwork, which is commonplace when the owners are sociopaths. This will add to the balance of evidence when the matter ends up in court.

Alas, someone needs to be first to alert the authorities. And yes, the neighbors will escalate, but they will also escalate if no one pushes back. In a homeowner community, neighbors like this mean no one can sell, and if they're in their seventies, they may not be able to physically intimidate others into walking away from their mortgage, which means others may join in once complaints have been filed. If the miscreants are not owners themselves, let the landlords know that there are code violations which are likely in breach of their lease.

And if this is happening in a small town/small city/rural county, call the community's councilperson or district supervisor. A house call might get the right department head to give this matter due attention.

Retrofits like mass-loaded vinyl barriers and laminated windows are not worth the expense while the property remains unlivable and has a market value of zero. Start the process with local government, rent an RV, and go somewhere quiet. And save the receipts. This will be a protracted ordeal. My sympathies.
posted by backwoods at 2:24 AM on June 20, 2022 [4 favorites]


Response by poster: When calling animal control to make a complaint, how much info should I give to ensure it's taken seriously? I have the exact address obviously. Do I need timestamped video and audio? Yesterday night their dogs barked for 3 hours straight, first from 9 to midnight, and then again from 9 to noon, both inside and outside the house.
posted by The Adventure Begins at 3:00 AM on June 20, 2022 [2 favorites]


You can call Animal Control, but it seems pretty likely to provoke further shitty behavior from the neighbors (given the state of things, it's reasonable to assume they'll blame your parents for calling, and find new ways to escalate). If the neighbors are as vindictive as you say, the same is true for most other tactics you might try.

Moving really seems like the solution here. Does your parents' HOA allow them to rent their place out? They could always do that for a bit, move into an apartment, and try to wait out the real estate market.

In the short term -- absolutely rent them an AirBnB for a few days or week, just to get them some sleep. Look for "whole house" setups, and ask about COVID protocols.

Another short-term option: can they move their bed to another room in the back of the house? That plus earplugs/white noise machines might buy them a little time to figure out a move plan.
posted by ourobouros at 4:05 AM on June 20, 2022 [2 favorites]


Nthing 'AirBandB'. Also consider noise-cancelling headphones or headphones playing white noise.

When I encounter bad neighbors like you've described, I feel strong pangs of empathy. They are probably leading sad and miserable lives and likely feel compelled to relieve that pain by passing it onto others.

I can't help but want to ease their pain. I'm just that kind of caring person.

So I share my favorite beautiful music playlist with them, speakers facing the common wall, volume turned up for sharing my joy with them, 10AM-9PM every day:
* Bach, Strauss, other calm (bland?) classical music - no Beethoven, Mozart, non-Sugar Plum Tchaikovsky etc.
* 1960's era folk songs like "Puff The Magic Dragon", the more like A Mighty Wind's soundtrack the better
and lovely popular music, with these specific tunes in heavy rotatiion
* "You're Having My Baby" - Paul Anka
* "Feelings" - Morris Albert
* "You Light Up My Life" - Debby Boone
* "Afternoon Delight" - Starland Vocal Band
* "Oh Babe What Would You Say" - Hurricane Smith
* "Winchester Cathedral" - The New Vaudeville Band
And anything by Lawrence Welk, in particular: the coup de grace:
* "Bubbles In The Wine", his signature tune
If the neighbors seem open to more uptempo music, I add an occasional tune from my Disco playlist, specifically:
* "There's No Business Like Show Business" and other songs from The Ethel Merman Disco Album
* "Disco Duck" - Rick Dees, etc.

This playlist often cheers bad neighbors right up! Besides, what HOA takes complaints about such HOA-friendly muzakmusic, played only within non-quiet hours, seriously?

Also you mentioned no skunk. I would add no dog laxatives to that in case your parents bring it up.
posted by zaixfeep at 5:22 AM on June 20, 2022 [13 favorites]


How direct can I be with hosts about their Covid cleaning between guests?

If you're willing to spend the money and given the difficulty of catching COVID from surfaces, one option is to book the AirBnB to start 24 hours (or more) before your parents actually set foot in the space.
posted by joyceanmachine at 6:30 AM on June 20, 2022 [3 favorites]


Depending on which variety of incompetent HOA they’ve got an anonymous complaint — or a long string of anonymous complaints — may be enough to make the neighbor’s lives painful. Even a petty and vengeful HOA can be useful if you get them pointed in the right direction.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 6:51 AM on June 20, 2022 [1 favorite]


Friendly local government attorney here. I would reach out to the non-emergency public safety number and ask to be kept anonymous, then ask what would happen in a situtation such as this if it were reported. I would also consult with a lawyer experienced in property issues in your jurisdiction, preferably your county specifically, about what options you may have.
posted by notjustthefish at 7:35 AM on June 20, 2022 [10 favorites]


>>>Consult with a lawyer experienced in property issues in your jurisdiction, preferably your county specifically, about what options you may have

Co-signing this. It doesn't matter how seriously local officials take code enforcement or animal control concerns in my city/county, because OP's parents aren't in my city/county. These are exceptionally local issues, and they need to be approached that way.

My best wishes to OP's parents. This sounds miserable, and I hope they reach a resolution sooner rather than later.
posted by virago at 7:48 AM on June 20, 2022 [1 favorite]


I'm a techie, so these solutions will be more of a "fanciful" nature.

I wonder if there's a way to put a hidden kibble launcher linked to a microphone. Bark and a small air gun shoots a kibble well away from your yard to a random location in their yard.

I wonder if buying like 30+ dollar store dog toys and throw one into the yard every day would keep the dog occupied enough? :)

One of those ultrasound gadgets may help. Chewy has like a dozen of them. Same idea: except dogs hear ultrasound and we don't. But those tend to be really directional and has a limited range.
posted by kschang at 10:50 AM on June 20, 2022


Let's take a step back for a moment. How long have your parents lived there and how long have the neighbors been there? How long has this been going on?

Is it possible for your parents to move within the same community, to a different house?

When you say the neighbors don't care, how do you know this? Have your parents talked to the neighbors at all? Why do you think the HOA would retaliate?
posted by bluedaisy at 3:05 PM on June 20, 2022


Response by poster: I know because my parents have talked to them and have asked them repeatedly to please respect the lot line, the community quiet hours, and many other things. The neighbors have replied with no every time because having their own house where they can "finally be themselves" is a dream come true. I think they moved in about 9 months ago and the extensive noise abuse has been going on for 6+ months.

The HOA is punitive towards residents in general and will issue fines for random violations so they can look like they're doing something. They are not a viable source of support or remediation.

I will look at whether there are other houses available in the area within their price range but it's not looking good. Still worth it to investigate.
posted by The Adventure Begins at 5:09 PM on June 20, 2022


Response by poster: Ah, but wait...

I could buy a house there.

Can you do that? Can someone under 55 buy a house in a retirement community for their parents to live in?
posted by The Adventure Begins at 5:36 PM on June 20, 2022 [1 favorite]


While you're investigating the availability of other housing (and I agree that the overheated market exacerbates your parents' plight), I reiterate the recommendation to a) explore the ramifications of making a report to animal control and/or code enforcement officials in your parents' jurisdiction, as per the advice of notjustthefish, and b) consider engaging a lawyer with a background in these issues. HOAs in California are required to abide by city and county regulations.
posted by virago at 5:38 PM on June 20, 2022


Response by poster: Nope, I cannot own a house there because you have to be 55+ to do it.

My parents told me just now that the neighbors have threatened to sue them because my dad popped his head over the fence to beg for some quiet. It looks like the neighbors also "tattled" to the HOA and are trying to say that my parents are watering their lawn more than twice a week (they aren't), so now my dad is fielding calls from the HOA who is prepping to assign fines to my folks.

This is really horrible, you guys.
posted by The Adventure Begins at 6:08 PM on June 20, 2022


I would video tape everything: the dogs constant barking, the noise (security cameras that record all this would be helpful). I would contact a lawyer as suggested above - I think charges could be brought against the HOA for ... I don't know, SOMETHING since they aren't doing anything to ensure a peaceful living situation.

And yes, call the non emergency police to report the loud noises after quiet hours start. (someone I know lives is such a place, and there's one obnoxious neighbor. But when they call the police, the neighbor has a friend with a scanner who tells them the police are on the way, and the sound goes down).

I am so very sorry your parents have to deal with this.
posted by annieb at 6:55 PM on June 20, 2022


my dad is fielding calls from the HOA who is prepping to assign fines to my folks

I am not a lawyer. I am a rando on the internet who has some Google-fu.

Your parents should find their copy of the governing handbook of their HOA (the CC&Rs, or covenants, conditions, and restrictions), and they should do it right away. Then they should get a lawyer who knows their way around the Davis-Stirling Act, which regulates HOAs in California. (If they need help finding an attorney, that could be a separate AskMe.)

Anyway, CC&Rs usually require an HOA to send a notice of violation or a notice of hearing before they issue a fine.

A notice of violation gives the homeowner a chance to comply with the HOA rules. A notice of hearing informs the homeowner that the HOA plans to meet to consider (and possibly impose) a penalty on them.

According to California civil code, the HOA must send these notices by mail, unless the homeowner has consented, in writing or via email, to electronic delivery of the notice (email, fax, etc.). Consent to electronic delivery may be revoked by the homeowner at any time and for any reason, either in writing or via email.
posted by virago at 7:23 PM on June 20, 2022


Last but not least, the HOA is required to give the homeowner at least 10 days notice of any meeting where the alleged violation is to be discussed.

I've been quoting from a blog post by an HOA management company -- HOA Rule Violations and Fines: What is the Proper Process and What Are Your Rights? -- and it has a lot more information that might be of interest.
posted by virago at 7:38 PM on June 20, 2022


Response by poster: I promise not to thread sit. I promise.

Someone else did make a non-emergency noise complaint and the neighbors are convinced it was my parents, which is why they've gone ahead to contact the HOA who can make my parents' lives way worse. :(

I will look into the fines. My dad is a rules person and very ferocious about getting things right, so he won't pay any fines unless they are really truly due.
posted by The Adventure Begins at 8:16 PM on June 20, 2022


I'm sorry that your parents are being harassed over someone else's nonemergency noise complaint! These people sound like the neighbors from hell. Truly.

My dad is a rules person and very ferocious about getting things right, so he won't pay any fines unless they are really truly due.

Good for your dad. (Even at 85, mine is the same way -- he can cite chapter and verse of any policies pertinent to his situation.) I'll be crossing my fingers for an expeditious resolution to all this agita so that your parents can focus on feeling better.
posted by virago at 9:00 PM on June 20, 2022


Someone else did make a non-emergency noise complaint and the neighbors are convinced it was my parents

Well that makes things easy. The damage is done. No need to pussyfoot around, every single violation gets reported immediately to the HOA. It would be good if you can enlist some of the other neighbors in doing the same. Make sure to hammer home how the neighbors don’t respect the purpose and authority of the HOA; they hate that.

Sure the neighbors are going to continue to file specious complaints — but they’re going to do that anyway. The HOA will likely enable them. Bullies love bullies, so get there first.

However, all of that sounds like a fairly horrendous way to spend one’s retirement so I definitely see the wisdom in moving on. The one thing they should not do is stay and hope that things won’t continue to go downhill.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 9:54 PM on June 20, 2022 [7 favorites]


Response by poster: My parents have declined all assistance from me due to my dad's poor health. He won't go to an AirBnB because he hates traveling, he is ill in other ways to the point that he wants to hide in his room, etc. They also can't handle a visit because my dad's poor health has put him in a state where he's hallucinating. When he's in that space, he gets belligerent. I can't be there when he's like that, no matter how prepared I am.

The only good point of progress is that the HOA is now investigating the bad people and will be doing drive-bys to figure out what to do with the dogs, NOT my parents. Maybe this will be the start of change. I don't know.

I really appreciate all the advice given. It is good advice, and I presented it all to them, but my parents are just not open to any of it. Grateful for my desire to fight for them, but won't accept it.

Sorry to share sad news. Please send good vibes their way.
posted by The Adventure Begins at 11:08 AM on June 21, 2022 [2 favorites]


Sending good wishes for calm and peace to your folks. Also, hope your Dad gets better. Hang in there.
posted by fies at 1:21 PM on June 21, 2022


If you can go by without triggering your dad or the neighbors... Is there any way you can put in a trail cam to RECORD that's going on in the neighbor's yard, then another camera to watch the trail cam from inside your house, in case your neighbor sabotages it? It is legal to record anything that's publicly visible, but not anywhere there's expectation of privacy, so your "shared" yard is fair game.
posted by kschang at 10:07 PM on June 21, 2022


That sounds like a miserable situation. Have your parents tried the usual "apartment" tricks for noise mitigation (e.g. white noise, earplugs, move the bed as far as possible from a shared wall, add furniture/ rugs? Is there any way to prevent

It might also be helpful in the longer term to bring out the appropriate expert to discuss better soundproofing.
posted by oceano at 3:50 PM on June 27, 2022


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