Drug Dealer Neighbors With Barking Dogs
September 14, 2012 4:55 PM Subscribe
My neighbor's dogs wake me up at all hours of the night barking. It is taking its toll on my well being and capacity to work. It's actually a big big problem that is not fixed by ear plugs and multiple sources of white noise. I am literally surrounded by white noise.
The big problem? I'm fairly certain they are drug dealers. I have tried to handle the noise in a low key straightforward manner, acting as if they wer not drug dealers. Someone tipped off the landlord though about the barking and they blame me for "tattling".
In addition, their many dogs, all pitbulls, frequently get out or are let out to roam the neighborhood. On the day before the landlord contacted them about the barking, their dogs got picked up by the pound. They blame me for letting their dogs out. Yikes.
When the landlord contacted them, they immediately texted me, calling me names for contacting the landlord and insisting that they "knew" I let out their dogs. I was afraid to go home. I sneaked into my apartment after midnight and did the same for the next weak.
They may or may not not believe that I didn't let their dogs out because they have since discovered a new way that the dogs have been escaping the backyard.
They are totally unresponsive to my requests that they find some way to quiet the dogs.
I have a personal connection to the landlord and I don't want to leave her with an empty apartment and no rent money because I moved, and I don't want her stuck with the drug dealer neighbors who pay rent irregularly and would probably scare off the next tenants as well.
Something has to be done. I love living where I am at currently, but I don't want to be hurt or killed. It is a nice apartment in a quiet neighborhood, but not worth my life.
In addition to being drug dealers and irresponsible dog owners, these folks have shown themselves to be impulsive and quick to anger.
I'm scared. How do I get out of this?
In addition, their many dogs, all pitbulls, frequently get out or are let out to roam the neighborhood. On the day before the landlord contacted them about the barking, their dogs got picked up by the pound. They blame me for letting their dogs out. Yikes.
When the landlord contacted them, they immediately texted me, calling me names for contacting the landlord and insisting that they "knew" I let out their dogs. I was afraid to go home. I sneaked into my apartment after midnight and did the same for the next weak.
They may or may not not believe that I didn't let their dogs out because they have since discovered a new way that the dogs have been escaping the backyard.
They are totally unresponsive to my requests that they find some way to quiet the dogs.
I have a personal connection to the landlord and I don't want to leave her with an empty apartment and no rent money because I moved, and I don't want her stuck with the drug dealer neighbors who pay rent irregularly and would probably scare off the next tenants as well.
Something has to be done. I love living where I am at currently, but I don't want to be hurt or killed. It is a nice apartment in a quiet neighborhood, but not worth my life.
In addition to being drug dealers and irresponsible dog owners, these folks have shown themselves to be impulsive and quick to anger.
I'm scared. How do I get out of this?
You should move. If you do not, and (god forbid) you are hurt or killed, the landlady will also be out rent. You will also be out money, your health, or your life.
There is no scenario under which the landlady will not lose you as a tenant - no need for you to suffer in the process.
Also, keep any evidence in case you ever need to press charges. Good luck.
posted by Atrahasis at 5:06 PM on September 14, 2012 [12 favorites]
There is no scenario under which the landlady will not lose you as a tenant - no need for you to suffer in the process.
Also, keep any evidence in case you ever need to press charges. Good luck.
posted by Atrahasis at 5:06 PM on September 14, 2012 [12 favorites]
I sneaked into my apartment after midnight and did the same for the next weak.
That's not an acceptable way to live your life; you will be happier if you move, and the landlady's problems aren't yours (she's not the one sneaking into her apartment at night in fear--that's worse than having to find another tenant.) You shouldn't have to live like this.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 5:08 PM on September 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
That's not an acceptable way to live your life; you will be happier if you move, and the landlady's problems aren't yours (she's not the one sneaking into her apartment at night in fear--that's worse than having to find another tenant.) You shouldn't have to live like this.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 5:08 PM on September 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
Have they threatened you? If so, go to the police. If there are no direct threats and since you have a personal connection with your landlord, why not talk to her? I think if you are genuinely scared you should trust your instincts and stay away until your landlord or the police can get them out of there. You are paying for a safe and secure domicile, there is no reason why you should feel bad about making this demand.
posted by wigner3j at 5:11 PM on September 14, 2012
posted by wigner3j at 5:11 PM on September 14, 2012
Your landlord owed it to you to take care of this. You're paying her for a decent place to live and she's not providing that. You don't owe her anything else here.
I don't want her stuck with the drug dealer neighbors who pay rent irregularly and would probably scare off the next tenants as well.
She has to decide if she wants to continue in this pursuit. Maybe if you leave she'll decide to get out too. That's probably a good idea for her.
posted by bleep at 5:11 PM on September 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
I don't want her stuck with the drug dealer neighbors who pay rent irregularly and would probably scare off the next tenants as well.
She has to decide if she wants to continue in this pursuit. Maybe if you leave she'll decide to get out too. That's probably a good idea for her.
posted by bleep at 5:11 PM on September 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: More information- my landlady is family. I care about her safety and well being very much. The property is one that has been in our family for a couple of generations. Most of us on that side of the family have lived there at some time or another. Much affection for this building. Much history.
posted by KoiPond at 5:21 PM on September 14, 2012
posted by KoiPond at 5:21 PM on September 14, 2012
yep, call the police, share the story, and find someplace else to live.
posted by HuronBob at 5:21 PM on September 14, 2012
posted by HuronBob at 5:21 PM on September 14, 2012
If you're related to the landlord, is there any chance of having the other tenants leave? Or is another property another landlord's?
posted by raccoon409 at 5:24 PM on September 14, 2012
posted by raccoon409 at 5:24 PM on September 14, 2012
Call the cops and animal control Every. Single. Time. their dogs bark or they so much as say boo to you. Save texts and emails/ notes. Write down conversations as soon as you can. Document it all and give it to the cops and your landlord. Avoid them.
If they really are drug dealers they'll be gone pretty soon under that kind of scrutiny.
posted by fshgrl at 5:26 PM on September 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
If they really are drug dealers they'll be gone pretty soon under that kind of scrutiny.
posted by fshgrl at 5:26 PM on September 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: I had considered asking her to evict them. She has said she would prefer me as a tenant over them. I'm afraid they will blame me for being evicted and hurt me.
I have considered trying to get other neighbors to complain to the drug dealers anonymously, via posted letters perhaps, to show them that I'm not the only one bothered by their dogs.
posted by KoiPond at 5:27 PM on September 14, 2012
I have considered trying to get other neighbors to complain to the drug dealers anonymously, via posted letters perhaps, to show them that I'm not the only one bothered by their dogs.
posted by KoiPond at 5:27 PM on September 14, 2012
It is a nice apartment in a quiet neighborhood, but not worth my life.
I'm really sorry to hear you're going through this. It sounds like a terrible situation ... but you said it yourself. Family or no, you can't stay in a situation like this. Surely you know this.
If you are unwilling to move, what other types of solutions are you looking for?
On preview, how do you expect things to improve by having other neighbors complain to the drug dealers? Sounds like they're already blaming you for complaints you haven't made - why wouldn't they blame you for these complaints, too?
posted by DingoMutt at 5:30 PM on September 14, 2012
I'm really sorry to hear you're going through this. It sounds like a terrible situation ... but you said it yourself. Family or no, you can't stay in a situation like this. Surely you know this.
If you are unwilling to move, what other types of solutions are you looking for?
On preview, how do you expect things to improve by having other neighbors complain to the drug dealers? Sounds like they're already blaming you for complaints you haven't made - why wouldn't they blame you for these complaints, too?
posted by DingoMutt at 5:30 PM on September 14, 2012
You are not thinking clearly. You need to move.
posted by mr_roboto at 5:30 PM on September 14, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by mr_roboto at 5:30 PM on September 14, 2012 [7 favorites]
Response by poster: I've avoided calling animal control because I thought they would blame me when animal control contacted them. Where I live, the first two calls to animal control are allowed to be anonymouse, The third you must go to the police station, give your name and be willing to go to court and testify.
posted by KoiPond at 5:30 PM on September 14, 2012
posted by KoiPond at 5:30 PM on September 14, 2012
Response by poster: Overwhelming vote, so far, is to move. I'm considering this option seriously. I wish there were some other alternative. I wish I were wrong about thinking they were drug dealers. Shady folks. Lots of pot. No other drugs that I know of. No other source of recognizable income.
Also, they have spoken to me about have a lot of pot laying around. So they know that I know about that. We used to be friendlier. They used to overshare.
posted by KoiPond at 5:35 PM on September 14, 2012
Also, they have spoken to me about have a lot of pot laying around. So they know that I know about that. We used to be friendlier. They used to overshare.
posted by KoiPond at 5:35 PM on September 14, 2012
You want a way out that will end with the barking dogs and their people quiet and non-threatening, but you're not going to get it.
You choices really are limited: move, tolerate it, or call the cops and keep calling them. All options have downsides. Your only decision is which one sucks less. That's the reality of it.
posted by rtha at 5:38 PM on September 14, 2012 [6 favorites]
You choices really are limited: move, tolerate it, or call the cops and keep calling them. All options have downsides. Your only decision is which one sucks less. That's the reality of it.
posted by rtha at 5:38 PM on September 14, 2012 [6 favorites]
It doesn't have to be either/or--the landlord can evict them even if you move. That might be best, frankly.
posted by needs more cowbell at 5:39 PM on September 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by needs more cowbell at 5:39 PM on September 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
Your living situation sounds horrible. Move. Then the land lady can evict them (or not). You're gone so they are less likely to blame you.
You love the landlady and I'll assume she loves you. I'm willing to theorize that she doesn't want you injured or dead.
Move. All other options leave you hostage to a terrible situation.
posted by 26.2 at 5:47 PM on September 14, 2012
You love the landlady and I'll assume she loves you. I'm willing to theorize that she doesn't want you injured or dead.
Move. All other options leave you hostage to a terrible situation.
posted by 26.2 at 5:47 PM on September 14, 2012
Call the police every time you hear the dogs. I don't understand why you aren't doing that considering the fact that they are already blaming you. This is a very difficult place for you, but you really need to stand up for yourself. Instead of fretting, take action by protecting yourself! Document, and stay calm, it will work out for you. You need to take care of this yourself and don't expect others to do the right thing at this point.
posted by waving at 5:52 PM on September 14, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by waving at 5:52 PM on September 14, 2012 [6 favorites]
We used to be friendlier. They used to overshare.
This could easily explain why they are overly hostile towards you - you're a threat to their lifestyle if you're not on their side, since you have enough information to hurt them.
Move out and let your relative sort out the mess. It's her building and you've done everything you reasonably can. It's also quite possible that she could find a tenant that is either not so bothered (similar interests) or at least one who is not at as much risk, since the neighbours won't necessarily see the new person as such a threat.
posted by scrute at 5:55 PM on September 14, 2012
This could easily explain why they are overly hostile towards you - you're a threat to their lifestyle if you're not on their side, since you have enough information to hurt them.
Move out and let your relative sort out the mess. It's her building and you've done everything you reasonably can. It's also quite possible that she could find a tenant that is either not so bothered (similar interests) or at least one who is not at as much risk, since the neighbours won't necessarily see the new person as such a threat.
posted by scrute at 5:55 PM on September 14, 2012
My in-laws got this. They said it worked.
posted by it's a long way to south america at 6:18 PM on September 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by it's a long way to south america at 6:18 PM on September 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
Dude. You shouldn't be afraid, you should be pissed off. Why do you assume that these people are prone to violence? If so, there are ways to minimize the threat – carry pepper spray, for instance, and let them know that you have it on you (also a great way to defend yourself against potentially vicious animals – I carry pepper spray ever since my own pit bull was attacked and bitten by a "harmless" off-leash pit bull).
You should be calling your local Animal Control every time those dogs are let loose (I'm assuming you live in a city, which usually means that is explicitly llegal to have pets at large), not doing to would be irresponsible, even though it is in no way your fault – you live in a society after all. Maybe the dogs are truly "harmless" but they are still endangering other pets and traffic (not to mention people like me who nearly have a heart attack every time I see an off-leash dog running toward me and my dog). I'm a 5', 110 lbs woman and I've started a feud with a similarly scary neighbor in my not-great neighborhood over this. I'm not saying that you should, too, but... wait, that is indeed what I am saying.
If your landlady is open to having them evicted, why not push that route? Are you located in an area with breed specific legislation? In some municipalities, the landlord is responsible for any damages that may be incurred if pit bull-type dogs bite another pet or a human – the victims could go after everything she owns and more. Does the lease specify that tenants need to purchase renter's insurance? If so, are the pit bulls covered (it can be a hassle to find insurers who will cover dogs regardless of breed)?
posted by halogen at 6:20 PM on September 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
You should be calling your local Animal Control every time those dogs are let loose (I'm assuming you live in a city, which usually means that is explicitly llegal to have pets at large), not doing to would be irresponsible, even though it is in no way your fault – you live in a society after all. Maybe the dogs are truly "harmless" but they are still endangering other pets and traffic (not to mention people like me who nearly have a heart attack every time I see an off-leash dog running toward me and my dog). I'm a 5', 110 lbs woman and I've started a feud with a similarly scary neighbor in my not-great neighborhood over this. I'm not saying that you should, too, but... wait, that is indeed what I am saying.
If your landlady is open to having them evicted, why not push that route? Are you located in an area with breed specific legislation? In some municipalities, the landlord is responsible for any damages that may be incurred if pit bull-type dogs bite another pet or a human – the victims could go after everything she owns and more. Does the lease specify that tenants need to purchase renter's insurance? If so, are the pit bulls covered (it can be a hassle to find insurers who will cover dogs regardless of breed)?
posted by halogen at 6:20 PM on September 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
Push your landlord/family member to evict. It takes time to evict tenants so she needs to start the process NOW and keep good documentation of their irregularity in paying, etc. Meanwhile, you move now and stay out until at least a couple months after their eviction, and then consider moving back in. Do not let them know you may eventually return, and make sure your landlord doesn't say anything either.
posted by vegartanipla at 6:27 PM on September 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by vegartanipla at 6:27 PM on September 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
Depending where you are, evicting people can be a long, slow process and if they're paying their rent, very difficult.
However, there might be a way around it, although I don't know how feasable or ethical it is; it's just an idea. If the house is sold, there might be a framework expecting current tenants to leave. There's a million and one "reasons" that current tenants can be requested to leave a place after it changes hands, and none of them could be blamed on you.
You say she's family. Could she sell the place to you or someone in your family for a marginal sum, get the tenants out, and buy it back?
posted by windykites at 6:28 PM on September 14, 2012
However, there might be a way around it, although I don't know how feasable or ethical it is; it's just an idea. If the house is sold, there might be a framework expecting current tenants to leave. There's a million and one "reasons" that current tenants can be requested to leave a place after it changes hands, and none of them could be blamed on you.
You say she's family. Could she sell the place to you or someone in your family for a marginal sum, get the tenants out, and buy it back?
posted by windykites at 6:28 PM on September 14, 2012
Call the cops. Or, you know, the FBI. "I think my neighbors are dealing drugs" constitutes probable cause in most states, and most police departments would be pleased to get the tip.
posted by valkyryn at 6:31 PM on September 14, 2012
posted by valkyryn at 6:31 PM on September 14, 2012
Response by poster: Birdhouse anti-bark device. Hilarious. :-)
Does anyone here think I have a reasonable alternative to moving? I have kinda sorta found a place I would like to live, but would prefer of course to stay put.
I have felt angry at them a lot. But I don't think pepper spray's going to cut it with these folks or their rather menacing friends/partners in crime that hang out in the front yard. The phrase "pop a cap in his ass" keeps running through my head.
posted by KoiPond at 6:55 PM on September 14, 2012
Does anyone here think I have a reasonable alternative to moving? I have kinda sorta found a place I would like to live, but would prefer of course to stay put.
I have felt angry at them a lot. But I don't think pepper spray's going to cut it with these folks or their rather menacing friends/partners in crime that hang out in the front yard. The phrase "pop a cap in his ass" keeps running through my head.
posted by KoiPond at 6:55 PM on September 14, 2012
The problem is irrational, impulsive, quick to anger drug dealer neighbors who blame you for everything including the weather are IRRATIONAL, IMPULSIVE, QUICK TO ANGER DRUG DEALER NEIGHBORS WHO BLAME YOU. You need to as quickly as possible remove yourself as the [imagined or real] source/focus of their problems.
Yes, there are things you could do to try to mitigate the risk. These things will be very expensive and on the level of hiring a bodyguard and installing state-of-the-art alarms on your property. And even then, there's arson, or vindictive stalking after you run out of funds, or or or. If you are not catastrophizing in this thread and you really believe there's cause to fear being attacked or killed, then your moving is not up for debate.
Move now. Decide if you want to return later.
posted by vegartanipla at 7:06 PM on September 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
Yes, there are things you could do to try to mitigate the risk. These things will be very expensive and on the level of hiring a bodyguard and installing state-of-the-art alarms on your property. And even then, there's arson, or vindictive stalking after you run out of funds, or or or. If you are not catastrophizing in this thread and you really believe there's cause to fear being attacked or killed, then your moving is not up for debate.
Move now. Decide if you want to return later.
posted by vegartanipla at 7:06 PM on September 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
Oh, and as to your I have felt angry at them a lot:
Irrational people are black holes for your logic and emotions. You cannot reason or productively plead with or yell at irrationality. Think of them like the weather they blame you for - they are a hurricane, a force of nature. Just get away safely.
posted by vegartanipla at 7:12 PM on September 14, 2012 [4 favorites]
Irrational people are black holes for your logic and emotions. You cannot reason or productively plead with or yell at irrationality. Think of them like the weather they blame you for - they are a hurricane, a force of nature. Just get away safely.
posted by vegartanipla at 7:12 PM on September 14, 2012 [4 favorites]
Response by poster: I'm feeling at peace about moving. It seemed so drastic that it didn't feel like the right thing. Hearing it nearly uniformly suggested from the posters here just makes it seem normal and clear. Thanks Mefites.
posted by KoiPond at 7:13 PM on September 14, 2012 [8 favorites]
posted by KoiPond at 7:13 PM on September 14, 2012 [8 favorites]
Sorry, but I'm going to be contrarian: they aren't irrational and you don't have anything to fear from them, they're just trying to intimidate you. Keep calling the police for noise and animal control for loose animals. If they accuse you, own up to it. "Damn right, and I'm going to keep on doing it. By the way, how's the drug dealing biz?" Get THEM to move. You don't live in South Central, they're not going to pop a cap in your ass, especially if they're just potheads.
These people have already handed you evidence that they have a motive. Remind them of this if necessary. Thank them for the text message. Let them know that your friends and family know about this situation and that the police will be knocking on their door first thing if they so much as move your doormat. Have your friends call in for health and welfare checks every week or so, so that police start coming around ALL THE TIME. If they want to push the boundaries, make the boundaries visible, I say. Bring the system down on them, that's what it's there for.
So, even if you don't like all that, their paying rent irregularly might actually give your landlord an out for an eviction. Many tenant laws require rent to be paid on time for the tenant to get certain protections.
posted by rhizome at 7:28 PM on September 14, 2012 [6 favorites]
These people have already handed you evidence that they have a motive. Remind them of this if necessary. Thank them for the text message. Let them know that your friends and family know about this situation and that the police will be knocking on their door first thing if they so much as move your doormat. Have your friends call in for health and welfare checks every week or so, so that police start coming around ALL THE TIME. If they want to push the boundaries, make the boundaries visible, I say. Bring the system down on them, that's what it's there for.
So, even if you don't like all that, their paying rent irregularly might actually give your landlord an out for an eviction. Many tenant laws require rent to be paid on time for the tenant to get certain protections.
posted by rhizome at 7:28 PM on September 14, 2012 [6 favorites]
CALL THE COPS. By moving away from the problem you are leaving it for someone less capable than you to clean up the mess. Don't be that guy. Get the cops involved, and keep your home. Make the dickheads move.
posted by BigLankyBastard at 7:56 PM on September 14, 2012
posted by BigLankyBastard at 7:56 PM on September 14, 2012
Nthing that calling the cops/animal control is a good idea after you move.
posted by vegartanipla at 8:24 PM on September 14, 2012
posted by vegartanipla at 8:24 PM on September 14, 2012
I think it all depends on how dangerous they actually are. What evidence do you have that they're dangerous, other than them having pitbulls? If they're really dangerous, move then tell the cops everything you know.
Wearing "tough"-looking clothing and having pitbulls doesn't mean they're actually violent, though. It's a thing a lot of insecure young men that have never been involved in actual crime or violence do.
posted by ignignokt at 8:29 PM on September 14, 2012
Wearing "tough"-looking clothing and having pitbulls doesn't mean they're actually violent, though. It's a thing a lot of insecure young men that have never been involved in actual crime or violence do.
posted by ignignokt at 8:29 PM on September 14, 2012
I'm with rhizome. And take photos and make a big deal out of it.
Also, if your landlady who is also your family member! doesn't care enough about you to evict them and be WAY more aggressive than she has been, you don't owe her loyalty in this matter.
posted by small_ruminant at 8:30 PM on September 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
Also, if your landlady who is also your family member! doesn't care enough about you to evict them and be WAY more aggressive than she has been, you don't owe her loyalty in this matter.
posted by small_ruminant at 8:30 PM on September 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
I'm sorry, but where the hell is your relative landlady in all of this? This absolutely is 100% HER responsibility.
It is easy to visit the police station and narc on these guys. Your relative/landlady should do it, but don't wait if she doesn't act.. The police will start surveillance and these gys will eventually be arrested. If they plead guilty or are convicted, your landlady can legally evict them. If they are unable to deal and make money, they will be unable to pay rent and your landlady will be able to evict them.
Either way, that works out for you.
In the meantime, the next time they are late on the rent, your landlady needs to take all legal steps to evict them. Presumably there is a lease. She needs to enforce everything in that lease, to the letter.
SHE is allowing these guys to run roughshod all over you and the other tenants. It is not acceptable, and she is uniquely positioned to put an end to it.
If their dogs are free and terrorizing the neighborhood, your landlady needs to give them a written warning and then call animal control every time the dogs are loose. Every. Time.
SHE needs to go on record with animal control and with the police. HER, not you.
May I? Your relative is a shitty landlord if she allows drug dealing, criminal intimidation, and dogs to run the show at HER income property, leaving all other tenants who live there in discomfort and potential danger.
You pay rent? You are owed services. DEMAND YOUR LANDLADY GET HER ASS IN GEAR AND HER LAWYER ON THE CASE.
Good luck.
Call your local tenants rights org if you doubt me. I dare you to follow up on your rights here. I hope you follow through.
posted by jbenben at 8:32 PM on September 14, 2012 [5 favorites]
It is easy to visit the police station and narc on these guys. Your relative/landlady should do it, but don't wait if she doesn't act.. The police will start surveillance and these gys will eventually be arrested. If they plead guilty or are convicted, your landlady can legally evict them. If they are unable to deal and make money, they will be unable to pay rent and your landlady will be able to evict them.
Either way, that works out for you.
In the meantime, the next time they are late on the rent, your landlady needs to take all legal steps to evict them. Presumably there is a lease. She needs to enforce everything in that lease, to the letter.
SHE is allowing these guys to run roughshod all over you and the other tenants. It is not acceptable, and she is uniquely positioned to put an end to it.
If their dogs are free and terrorizing the neighborhood, your landlady needs to give them a written warning and then call animal control every time the dogs are loose. Every. Time.
SHE needs to go on record with animal control and with the police. HER, not you.
May I? Your relative is a shitty landlord if she allows drug dealing, criminal intimidation, and dogs to run the show at HER income property, leaving all other tenants who live there in discomfort and potential danger.
You pay rent? You are owed services. DEMAND YOUR LANDLADY GET HER ASS IN GEAR AND HER LAWYER ON THE CASE.
Good luck.
Call your local tenants rights org if you doubt me. I dare you to follow up on your rights here. I hope you follow through.
posted by jbenben at 8:32 PM on September 14, 2012 [5 favorites]
To summarize my long answer above, you are angry with the wrong person. And while moving is the answer in 99% of these cases, it is not the answer here when it is clear your landlady needs to act.
Don't be mad at your neighbors, be angry with your landlord who is doing fuck all to protect her tenants, her property, and you, her family.
posted by jbenben at 8:37 PM on September 14, 2012
Don't be mad at your neighbors, be angry with your landlord who is doing fuck all to protect her tenants, her property, and you, her family.
posted by jbenben at 8:37 PM on September 14, 2012
Alternative suggestion. Deny their accusation respectfully and straightforwardly, then mind your own business. Reply text: "Wasn't me. It's not my style to go tattling on people. I talked to you about the dogs face to face. I think you have a hole in your fence though." Don't be sneaking around. Don't escalate the tattling. Calling the police is probably pointless. If they have a yard full of bulldogs and a lot of visitors, I bet the police already know they are dealing. (In my neighborhood, I've been told the police have a slideshow they give about the neighborhood drug crews.) And yes, they're never going to quiet the dogs. Get used to it, move, or help your landlady relative evict them.
posted by slidell at 8:51 PM on September 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by slidell at 8:51 PM on September 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
Why do you think these people are violent and are going to hurt you? Have they actually threatened you?
How do you know they're drug dealers, aside from the pot possession?
posted by Anonymous at 8:53 PM on September 14, 2012
How do you know they're drug dealers, aside from the pot possession?
posted by Anonymous at 8:53 PM on September 14, 2012
Response by poster: As far as the level of danger. I am unused to seeing people in the drug trade, and presuming they are, I am also presuming they or their higher ups have weapons. I am not 100% positive they deal drugs.
Here's what I've seen. A big pile of pot in their house. No job that anyone ever talks about. And I've spent some time with them. The guy has his own place and supports the woman who lives in the apartment in our building. I don't think she deals. Their cars seem too expensive for people who apparently don't work. He maintains both residences on his income. Scary looking dudes coming around frequently to their house. Unfriendly in the face of my friendliness. Pitbulls (if that counts).
posted by KoiPond at 9:02 PM on September 14, 2012
Here's what I've seen. A big pile of pot in their house. No job that anyone ever talks about. And I've spent some time with them. The guy has his own place and supports the woman who lives in the apartment in our building. I don't think she deals. Their cars seem too expensive for people who apparently don't work. He maintains both residences on his income. Scary looking dudes coming around frequently to their house. Unfriendly in the face of my friendliness. Pitbulls (if that counts).
posted by KoiPond at 9:02 PM on September 14, 2012
The fact that your landlady is not stepping up and doing something about this highlights a real problem of renting from family. My in-laws own a few houses, and my wife & I used to rent one house from them, and now my brother-in-law and his wife rent another house from them. A lot of problems accompany that arrangement, for all parties involved.
Maybe you need to coordinate with your landlady a temporary moving-out, wherein you rent a place short-term. You're gone for a few weeks, then your landlady boots them out, then you move back in a few weeks later. You don't get blamed, creepy tenants are gone, family isn't annoyed. Perhaps there are improvements that need to be made to your place, and your absence would be the opportunity to make them?
This is not a good solution, but I suggest it as one that perhaps you'd be willing to do.
posted by waldo at 9:10 PM on September 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
Maybe you need to coordinate with your landlady a temporary moving-out, wherein you rent a place short-term. You're gone for a few weeks, then your landlady boots them out, then you move back in a few weeks later. You don't get blamed, creepy tenants are gone, family isn't annoyed. Perhaps there are improvements that need to be made to your place, and your absence would be the opportunity to make them?
This is not a good solution, but I suggest it as one that perhaps you'd be willing to do.
posted by waldo at 9:10 PM on September 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
Well, for what it's worth there's a house of drug dealers across the street from me and they are the friendliest, nicest neighbors I have.
If there was a giant pile of crack or heroin on their table then the assumption that they're violent and have weapons would be a pretty good one. But pot dealing, on the scale of violent criminal activities, is pretty damn low. Shit, kids in college do it. I think it is a pretty huge leap to assume that because these guys had a lot of pot on their table they are suddenly going to track you down and murder you because they think you let their dogs out. It sounds like they haven't actually even threatened you, they're just angry about the dog thing. I understand that they haven't been friendly but "angry texts about the dog" is very different from "track me down and shoot me". Did you respond to the texts and tell them you didn't let the dog out? If this is what is holding you back from calling the cops it sounds like you may be overreacting a little.
Whatever the case is, your landlady needs to do something. I assume she doesn't want illegal activities happening on her properties. What was their response to her request that they control them? Why doesn't she call the cops, explain the situation, mention the illegal activities, and express concern about retaliation? That way the cops will be on the lookout when they show up.
posted by Anonymous at 9:37 PM on September 14, 2012
If there was a giant pile of crack or heroin on their table then the assumption that they're violent and have weapons would be a pretty good one. But pot dealing, on the scale of violent criminal activities, is pretty damn low. Shit, kids in college do it. I think it is a pretty huge leap to assume that because these guys had a lot of pot on their table they are suddenly going to track you down and murder you because they think you let their dogs out. It sounds like they haven't actually even threatened you, they're just angry about the dog thing. I understand that they haven't been friendly but "angry texts about the dog" is very different from "track me down and shoot me". Did you respond to the texts and tell them you didn't let the dog out? If this is what is holding you back from calling the cops it sounds like you may be overreacting a little.
Whatever the case is, your landlady needs to do something. I assume she doesn't want illegal activities happening on her properties. What was their response to her request that they control them? Why doesn't she call the cops, explain the situation, mention the illegal activities, and express concern about retaliation? That way the cops will be on the lookout when they show up.
posted by Anonymous at 9:37 PM on September 14, 2012
Response by poster: When the landlord spoke to them about the dogs, they controlled it for about a week and then it was same old, same old.
Do you really think that pot dealing is definitely, for sure, not something people would hurt someone over? I'm thinking if the income from dealing pot (and who knows if there's other stuff (!)) is high enough to support two fairly nice cars and two apartments, then it's sort of big business and not something casual. It means something to these people. And it may also mean that they are connected to folks higher up the drug food chain, possibly more violent people. I'm also concerned that my neighbors are rather impulsive generally and prone to getting angry.
I have little exposure to the drug trade and may not be judging the danger I'm in accurately. I am also not one to freak out in general over a little pot.
Am I in danger? What do you think?
posted by KoiPond at 9:55 PM on September 14, 2012
Do you really think that pot dealing is definitely, for sure, not something people would hurt someone over? I'm thinking if the income from dealing pot (and who knows if there's other stuff (!)) is high enough to support two fairly nice cars and two apartments, then it's sort of big business and not something casual. It means something to these people. And it may also mean that they are connected to folks higher up the drug food chain, possibly more violent people. I'm also concerned that my neighbors are rather impulsive generally and prone to getting angry.
I have little exposure to the drug trade and may not be judging the danger I'm in accurately. I am also not one to freak out in general over a little pot.
Am I in danger? What do you think?
posted by KoiPond at 9:55 PM on September 14, 2012
Do you really think that pot dealing is definitely, for sure, not something people would hurt someone over?
People kill each other over jackets. Shoes. Phones. They will and they do kill over pot. It happens here in the Bay Area; it can happen wherever you are.
But that doesn't tell you that these guys will do that.
Is there any kind of neighborhood organization with people you could talk to? A liaison in your local precinct? They might be able to help you with next steps, weigh pros and cons, and so on.
Nothing is risk-free; if you move, your next set of neighbors might be worse, and so might your landlord. If you stay, again, you either have to put up with it or deal with it.
posted by rtha at 10:09 PM on September 14, 2012
People kill each other over jackets. Shoes. Phones. They will and they do kill over pot. It happens here in the Bay Area; it can happen wherever you are.
But that doesn't tell you that these guys will do that.
Is there any kind of neighborhood organization with people you could talk to? A liaison in your local precinct? They might be able to help you with next steps, weigh pros and cons, and so on.
Nothing is risk-free; if you move, your next set of neighbors might be worse, and so might your landlord. If you stay, again, you either have to put up with it or deal with it.
posted by rtha at 10:09 PM on September 14, 2012
I'm confused by the answers here. You think they are dealing drugs. So call the cops and tell them you think they're dealing drugs. Once they bust these guys, the dogs will be gone. Problem solved.
posted by MexicanYenta at 10:30 PM on September 14, 2012
posted by MexicanYenta at 10:30 PM on September 14, 2012
I think you have a reasonable alternative to moving. If these folks used to be friendlier, they can be friendly again even for short bursts.
If it were me, and I recognize this is a tough step, before I moved, I would approach these folks and tell them to move. "Listen, I don't want you or your dogs in any sort of trouble so I m giving you a heads up. I have heard through the apartment grapevine that tenants will be calling animal control and the police about the barking. One even thinks you are a drug dealer. If you don't want the heat on you, I suggest you move to a place that is more tolerant of your dogs."
posted by JohnnyGunn at 10:32 PM on September 14, 2012
If it were me, and I recognize this is a tough step, before I moved, I would approach these folks and tell them to move. "Listen, I don't want you or your dogs in any sort of trouble so I m giving you a heads up. I have heard through the apartment grapevine that tenants will be calling animal control and the police about the barking. One even thinks you are a drug dealer. If you don't want the heat on you, I suggest you move to a place that is more tolerant of your dogs."
posted by JohnnyGunn at 10:32 PM on September 14, 2012
I had considered asking her to evict them.
Wait, what? These asshole neighbors' landlord is also your landlord and family?
Why has she not evicted them, like, months ago?
posted by flabdablet at 11:42 PM on September 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
Wait, what? These asshole neighbors' landlord is also your landlord and family?
Why has she not evicted them, like, months ago?
posted by flabdablet at 11:42 PM on September 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
As far as the level of danger. I am unused to seeing people in the drug trade, and presuming they are, I am also presuming they or their higher ups have weapons. I am not 100% positive they deal drugs.
I am not certain that assuming they are violent, absent any demonstration of violence at all, is going to do much more than have you paralyzed with anxiety. So far, the only evidence of violence is a text where they called you names.
Unless you have information here that I am missing, it kind of sounds like you are making a lot of assumptions based on "pot dealers are violent". To me, the situation looks like this:
1) you have inconsiderate neighbors
2) who have dogs that bark
3) and who think you let the dogs loose
Again, I'm not there on the scene with you, but from what you've said so far, it really sounds like the neighbors have not demonstrated an inclination towards violence, but are just inconsiderate knuckleheads.
posted by zippy at 2:32 AM on September 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
I am not certain that assuming they are violent, absent any demonstration of violence at all, is going to do much more than have you paralyzed with anxiety. So far, the only evidence of violence is a text where they called you names.
Unless you have information here that I am missing, it kind of sounds like you are making a lot of assumptions based on "pot dealers are violent". To me, the situation looks like this:
1) you have inconsiderate neighbors
2) who have dogs that bark
3) and who think you let the dogs loose
Again, I'm not there on the scene with you, but from what you've said so far, it really sounds like the neighbors have not demonstrated an inclination towards violence, but are just inconsiderate knuckleheads.
posted by zippy at 2:32 AM on September 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
>"I think my neighbors are dealing drugs" constitutes probable cause in most states
Surely not written by a lawyer.
posted by yclipse at 4:53 AM on September 15, 2012
Surely not written by a lawyer.
posted by yclipse at 4:53 AM on September 15, 2012
Response by poster: So, does pot dealing imply danger, or does it not? Obviously my first inclination was yes, yes it does. These folks are not hippies or college kids. While I have been friendly with my neighbors in the past, I have frequently found their friends who came over to be unusually serious and unfriendly. Uncomfortable.
posted by KoiPond at 8:14 AM on September 15, 2012
posted by KoiPond at 8:14 AM on September 15, 2012
While I would agree with the people who have commented that your follow-up posts make the situation seem potentially less threatening than your initial post sounded, and while I suppose it's somewhat possible that someone could tell you in very general terms whether or not pot dealers are likely to be violent, nobody here is going to be able to tell you whether or not these two specific people pose a danger to you. It's possible that they are dangerous, it's possible that they really aren't; either way, that's not something we can gauge for you.
I will say that if you're already so frightened of them that you're altering your lifestyle, staying out of your own home past midnight to avoid them for a week just on the basis of one text, it seems like staying might not be the best choice for you. Even if we all said we thought they probably weren't dangerous, would you really ever feel comfortable with them around?
You deserve to feel safe in your own home. Nthing that this is your landlord's responsibility to deal with, and that until she does, you don't owe her your continued tenancy. I like the idea of a temporary move-out while things get sorted if you can manage the logistics, but if that's too much of a hassle I would still be in the "move out, this isn't worth it" camp.
posted by DingoMutt at 8:43 AM on September 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
I will say that if you're already so frightened of them that you're altering your lifestyle, staying out of your own home past midnight to avoid them for a week just on the basis of one text, it seems like staying might not be the best choice for you. Even if we all said we thought they probably weren't dangerous, would you really ever feel comfortable with them around?
You deserve to feel safe in your own home. Nthing that this is your landlord's responsibility to deal with, and that until she does, you don't owe her your continued tenancy. I like the idea of a temporary move-out while things get sorted if you can manage the logistics, but if that's too much of a hassle I would still be in the "move out, this isn't worth it" camp.
posted by DingoMutt at 8:43 AM on September 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
So, does pot dealing imply danger, or does it not?
If I told you that in my long and varied experience with pot dealers, I've never met one who was violent, would that make you feel better? It shouldn't. Because I don't know your neighbors (who may or may not even be dealers). From what you've said, it sounds like they're assholes, and assholes can frequently be dangerous (for a range of definitions of "dangerous").
No one can assure you that *these* particular people, regardless of their status as dealers or not, are not going to be dangerous, or what the odds are.
Stop thinking that if you can get a "percentage of dealers who are dangerous" figure that you will be able to make the "right" decision about getting them evicted or whatever. That figure doesn't exist and couldn't be applied correctly to your neighbors even if it did. Decide what will make you feel safest and do that.
posted by rtha at 8:54 AM on September 15, 2012 [5 favorites]
If I told you that in my long and varied experience with pot dealers, I've never met one who was violent, would that make you feel better? It shouldn't. Because I don't know your neighbors (who may or may not even be dealers). From what you've said, it sounds like they're assholes, and assholes can frequently be dangerous (for a range of definitions of "dangerous").
No one can assure you that *these* particular people, regardless of their status as dealers or not, are not going to be dangerous, or what the odds are.
Stop thinking that if you can get a "percentage of dealers who are dangerous" figure that you will be able to make the "right" decision about getting them evicted or whatever. That figure doesn't exist and couldn't be applied correctly to your neighbors even if it did. Decide what will make you feel safest and do that.
posted by rtha at 8:54 AM on September 15, 2012 [5 favorites]
> As far as the level of danger. I am unused to seeing people in the drug trade, and presuming they are, I am also presuming they or their higher ups have weapons. I am not 100% positive they deal drugs. Here's what I've seen. A big pile of pot in their house. No job that anyone ever talks about. And I've spent some time with them. The guy has his own place and supports the woman who lives in the apartment in our building. I don't think she deals. Their cars seem too expensive for people who apparently don't work. He maintains both residences on his income. Scary looking dudes coming around frequently to their house. Unfriendly in the face of my friendliness. Pitbulls (if that counts).
None of us can say definitely whether you are in danger or not, but it sounds to me like you're making a LOT of assumptions based on superficial appearances and some highly circumstantial evidence. It doesn't matter whether or not they're drug dealers specifically. (The finances could be coming from any number of sources, either legit or not.) Whether they are drug dealers is not the big problem. The big problem is their dogs and their intimidation of you.
You have actual rights, your landlord has actual responsibilities, it sounds like it is possible that they have even implied actual threats against you. Work with what you've got, what has actually occurred, not presumptions about armed higher-ups for drug-dealing that may not even be occurring.
posted by desuetude at 9:18 PM on September 15, 2012
None of us can say definitely whether you are in danger or not, but it sounds to me like you're making a LOT of assumptions based on superficial appearances and some highly circumstantial evidence. It doesn't matter whether or not they're drug dealers specifically. (The finances could be coming from any number of sources, either legit or not.) Whether they are drug dealers is not the big problem. The big problem is their dogs and their intimidation of you.
You have actual rights, your landlord has actual responsibilities, it sounds like it is possible that they have even implied actual threats against you. Work with what you've got, what has actually occurred, not presumptions about armed higher-ups for drug-dealing that may not even be occurring.
posted by desuetude at 9:18 PM on September 15, 2012
Lots of good advice here. One thing to try, while you're thinking about other things...is a passive method of quieting the dogs without having to engage. I bought one of these Sunbeam Indoor/Outdoor sonic eggs for a barky foster dog, and it quieted her right up. Friend of mine bought one to quiet the neighbor dogs..and it worked.
posted by answergrape at 8:51 PM on September 17, 2012
posted by answergrape at 8:51 PM on September 17, 2012
One thing I should mention: Not all of the eggs work right away. I had to return the first one I got because it worked in "test" mode, but didn't work in actual practice. I returned that one, and the second one works like a charm. Both cashiers said it doesn't work on chihuahuas....
posted by answergrape at 8:53 PM on September 17, 2012
posted by answergrape at 8:53 PM on September 17, 2012
When is their lease up? If it's soon, or they're onth-to-month, have the landlady not renew their lease.
posted by at at 9:06 AM on September 19, 2012
posted by at at 9:06 AM on September 19, 2012
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by The Light Fantastic at 5:04 PM on September 14, 2012 [10 favorites]