Vehicle with 4WD, kid car seats, and camping
January 29, 2021 1:16 PM Subscribe
I looking into a vehicle purchase and would like suggestions. My minimal requirements are a vehicle that has four-wheel drive with good handling on icy and dirt roads, can fit two kid car seats, and allows 1-2 adults to sleep in the back (without removing the car seats).
I'm planning on a used vehicle, prefer to spend a max of $10k, could go up to $15-$20k for something amazing. Other preferences:
- Comfortable/good to drive around town for errands, etc.
- Heated seats.
- Better gas mileage.
- Safety features.
In the past I've done this with a pickup and camper shell or pop-up camper, but maybe there are other vehicle options that are worth looking at. I hate everything about vehicles and don't want them to take up any space in my brain, so I need a good internet friend to tell me, Hey, look at the Forlerbaru Crossingback, it's exactly what you want!
I'm planning on a used vehicle, prefer to spend a max of $10k, could go up to $15-$20k for something amazing. Other preferences:
- Comfortable/good to drive around town for errands, etc.
- Heated seats.
- Better gas mileage.
- Safety features.
In the past I've done this with a pickup and camper shell or pop-up camper, but maybe there are other vehicle options that are worth looking at. I hate everything about vehicles and don't want them to take up any space in my brain, so I need a good internet friend to tell me, Hey, look at the Forlerbaru Crossingback, it's exactly what you want!
Response by poster: Relatively small but not tiny, 5'5".
posted by medusa at 1:30 PM on January 29, 2021
posted by medusa at 1:30 PM on January 29, 2021
Outside of a 15 or 12 passenger van, the sleeping two adults while keeping the car seats in eliminates basically all non pickup options except possibly an excursion or a van/suv with a pop up tent thing.
posted by rockindata at 1:43 PM on January 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by rockindata at 1:43 PM on January 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
Yeah, if you explore minivanlife on youtube, you'll see that you're going to run into length issues if you are over four feet tall. Even a Dodge Grand Caravan (the gold standard of minivanlife because of the stow-and-go seats/seatwells and interior dimensions) only has a little under 7 feet of interior length between the back of the front seats and the inside of the hatch. With the middle row seats up in most minivans, I think you'd only have about 3'6 to maybe 4'5" on a 3-row SUV.
At 5'5" though, you would fit cross-ways in an actual van and that would leave room for a second row of seats. You might be able to pull it off in a Nissan nv200, which is the newest cheapest entry in the cargo/conversion van market. Most people convert on a Mercedes Sprinter or Dodge Promaster, both of which fit ("fit") in regular parking spaces in their shortest wheel-base models, but you're not getting anything like minivan/crossover gas mileage in them.
SUVs are not super popular for sleeping customizations because they have a higher deck, meaning you will have so little headroom that you'll have to crawl in and out and may not be able to sit up.
I was trying to find the floor dimensions on an Odyssey or Pilot with the second row seats up, but all I can find are photos. The internet tells me a travel golf bag is 50-55 inches, 4'5" at best, so it's not super promising. Might be worth putting on a shortlist to go find and look at in person with a tape measure. Also peruse youtube, because there's no car out there someone hasn't converted - including non-destructively/temporarily - for sleeping.
posted by Lyn Never at 1:53 PM on January 29, 2021 [5 favorites]
At 5'5" though, you would fit cross-ways in an actual van and that would leave room for a second row of seats. You might be able to pull it off in a Nissan nv200, which is the newest cheapest entry in the cargo/conversion van market. Most people convert on a Mercedes Sprinter or Dodge Promaster, both of which fit ("fit") in regular parking spaces in their shortest wheel-base models, but you're not getting anything like minivan/crossover gas mileage in them.
SUVs are not super popular for sleeping customizations because they have a higher deck, meaning you will have so little headroom that you'll have to crawl in and out and may not be able to sit up.
I was trying to find the floor dimensions on an Odyssey or Pilot with the second row seats up, but all I can find are photos. The internet tells me a travel golf bag is 50-55 inches, 4'5" at best, so it's not super promising. Might be worth putting on a shortlist to go find and look at in person with a tape measure. Also peruse youtube, because there's no car out there someone hasn't converted - including non-destructively/temporarily - for sleeping.
posted by Lyn Never at 1:53 PM on January 29, 2021 [5 favorites]
Kia Sedona? You can fold up the middle seats and have about 68" for a mattress, though you're probably going to be a little diagonal. And it's AWD, not 4WD.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 2:05 PM on January 29, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 2:05 PM on January 29, 2021 [2 favorites]
SUVs typically don't have that much space in the back, often less than an old-fashioned station wagon. That kind of space is closer to a mini-van, though even then it's not clear you'd be able to stretch out completely. Also... icy roads are tough no matter what you're driving, and front-wheel drive can be as good on something like snow and dirt, especially with better tires.
So you want big, safe, and good gas mileage. I don't think you get all three. Decide where to compromise, I think.
posted by bluedaisy at 2:06 PM on January 29, 2021 [2 favorites]
So you want big, safe, and good gas mileage. I don't think you get all three. Decide where to compromise, I think.
posted by bluedaisy at 2:06 PM on January 29, 2021 [2 favorites]
My brother has a 5 seat 4x4 Toyota Tacoma and a pop up tent for the bed. He and his girlfriend and dogs go truck camping about once a month, generally with other Toyota Tacoma owners who also have 5 seat 4x4 Toyota Tacomas with tents, so they can all talk about how much they love camping in their giant, muddy Toyota Tacomas.
Sneaky edit to add: my brother is 6'4"
posted by phunniemee at 2:24 PM on January 29, 2021 [2 favorites]
Sneaky edit to add: my brother is 6'4"
posted by phunniemee at 2:24 PM on January 29, 2021 [2 favorites]
We had a 2004 Suburban for a while. The ride was really nice, it was super-confident on sketchy roads and conditions, and OMG had a ton of space. I think with the 3rd row out it had about 64-70 inches of space, which is about where you are headed. It fails on your mileage requirement, but I'm not sure there is a way to compromise on the 65 inches (at least) for sleeping and keeping the car seats on seats and good gas mileage. It was really easy to drive and to park parallel and perpendicular, though. And sitting up that high made pulling out of spaces really easy.
posted by Snowishberlin at 2:40 PM on January 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Snowishberlin at 2:40 PM on January 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Would you vehicle experts recommend that I give in and plan to remove the car seats for sleeping? Sounds like that would open up a lot more options.
Also TIL that minivanlife is a thing.
posted by medusa at 2:53 PM on January 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
Also TIL that minivanlife is a thing.
posted by medusa at 2:53 PM on January 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
removing the child seats so you can fold a row means you can skip the cost/size/mileage of a bigger vehicle with a third row. in my great milage/4wd Forlerbaru Crossingback SUV, at 5'8" i can squeeze in that way but not comfy, because the extended cargo space isn't level. I've been looking for that perfect vehicle as well, but I don't like driving big cars/trucks. My interim solution is going to be one of these 30-second setup OZ Tents, which my overlanding pals all use once they get tired of rooftop tents, or crawling in and out of backpacking tents.
posted by th3ph17 at 3:11 PM on January 29, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by th3ph17 at 3:11 PM on January 29, 2021 [2 favorites]
If you're not camping with the occupants of the seats, it definitely broadens your horizons to not take them and deal with pulling them in and out. Probably what you want to search on youtube is "no build minivan conversion" - "no build" meaning no permanent modifications are made to the vehicle.
I did find this one example of a no-build for two (plus two small children!) made for sideways sleeping for fairly short people, but when the kids are with them they have to leave the car seats outside at night. But his rec of bench-seat model vs stow-and-go chair-type seat might be food for thought for you.
But without the carseat requirement, you definitely have many more vehicles to choose from and - as long as you're willing to live with a sleep-only space with limited headroom - there are all kinds of no-build conversions for Subarus and similar crossovers, though a minivan really does seem like the best of all worlds except maybe the 4wd.
posted by Lyn Never at 3:18 PM on January 29, 2021
I did find this one example of a no-build for two (plus two small children!) made for sideways sleeping for fairly short people, but when the kids are with them they have to leave the car seats outside at night. But his rec of bench-seat model vs stow-and-go chair-type seat might be food for thought for you.
But without the carseat requirement, you definitely have many more vehicles to choose from and - as long as you're willing to live with a sleep-only space with limited headroom - there are all kinds of no-build conversions for Subarus and similar crossovers, though a minivan really does seem like the best of all worlds except maybe the 4wd.
posted by Lyn Never at 3:18 PM on January 29, 2021
In the US and Canada, Toyota Sienna has AWD models (new and used).
posted by Artful Codger at 3:43 PM on January 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Artful Codger at 3:43 PM on January 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
The 3 row Toyota Highlander has a bed just a mite over 6 ft long with all the seats down. It comes in AWD but I don't know how it does in ice/snow since I haven't had to drive in the snow since we got chains. They're very comfortable to drive, super safe with all the safety everything but very not cheap, even used. They're also scarce as hen's teeth based on all the dealers trying to get mine.
posted by fiercekitten at 5:00 PM on January 29, 2021
posted by fiercekitten at 5:00 PM on January 29, 2021
Came to recommend the Sienna, like Artful Codger. I have the FWD version but my next one will be AWD. Absolute workhorse for car camping. I built out a basic bed/kitchen setup for camping in the back of mine, but that was with row 3 folded down into the floor and row 2 removed. Also tows 3,500 pounds, which is plenty for a pop-up.
I bought a 5 year old Sienna tricked out with all options for $17K, you can go much cheaper although the AWD is usually offered on the highest trim level. They last 10+ years easily. Maintenance is cheap, they're reliable, easy to drive, good acceleration. Fuel efficiency is not amazing but better than SUVs and pickups.
posted by sockshaveholes at 6:36 PM on January 29, 2021 [2 favorites]
I bought a 5 year old Sienna tricked out with all options for $17K, you can go much cheaper although the AWD is usually offered on the highest trim level. They last 10+ years easily. Maintenance is cheap, they're reliable, easy to drive, good acceleration. Fuel efficiency is not amazing but better than SUVs and pickups.
posted by sockshaveholes at 6:36 PM on January 29, 2021 [2 favorites]
Would you vehicle experts recommend that I give in and plan to remove the car seats for sleeping? Sounds like that would open up a lot more options.
There's going to be tradeoffs with anything that large, including costs and difficulty maneuvering compared to a smaller vehicles, so I'd definitely examine how often you'd realistically be sleeping in the car without wanting to remove car seats and how much that's worth to you.
Thinking outside the box, would a rooftop tent be an option? It wouldn't keep you enclosed from the outside but if your concern is mostly being able to be in a state where you could be sleeping 5 minutes after pulling off the road while not having to mess with car seats, they would get you there.
posted by Candleman at 9:37 PM on January 29, 2021
There's going to be tradeoffs with anything that large, including costs and difficulty maneuvering compared to a smaller vehicles, so I'd definitely examine how often you'd realistically be sleeping in the car without wanting to remove car seats and how much that's worth to you.
Thinking outside the box, would a rooftop tent be an option? It wouldn't keep you enclosed from the outside but if your concern is mostly being able to be in a state where you could be sleeping 5 minutes after pulling off the road while not having to mess with car seats, they would get you there.
posted by Candleman at 9:37 PM on January 29, 2021
Absolutely, you've got to move the car seats to sleep in back. Comfortably, anyway - I mean, when I was nineteen I could curl up behind the middle seat of my '77 Impala wagon, but that was...my back is still paying for that almost 30 years later.
Speaking of that wagon, once you *did* fold down the middle seat, you could put a casket in that thing.
To the question: Outback. Latest version just barely sleeps a six-footer, but damn does it handle well.
posted by notsnot at 9:59 PM on January 29, 2021
Speaking of that wagon, once you *did* fold down the middle seat, you could put a casket in that thing.
To the question: Outback. Latest version just barely sleeps a six-footer, but damn does it handle well.
posted by notsnot at 9:59 PM on January 29, 2021
The Subaru Outback is super popular for this. It will give you 6'3" of flat length space for sleeping if you use the space behind the front seats too, and there are air mattresses powered by your car lighter for it. At 5'5" you will have so much room!
posted by DarlingBri at 2:41 AM on January 30, 2021
posted by DarlingBri at 2:41 AM on January 30, 2021
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by jenkinsEar at 1:27 PM on January 29, 2021 [5 favorites]