Buying a car. Difficulty level: Pacific Northwesterner in Maine
September 23, 2015 6:53 AM Subscribe
My son has just been stationed in Kittery, Maine for the foreseeable future (three years) and needs a car. He believes he needs a vehicle with a little extra something-something: ground clearance and AWD or 4WD. But I'm here visiting for a week and I'm 110% positive all these folks aren't swapping out their small sedans for big trucks when winter hits. Or, do they?
What does he truly need?
Can he get by with a smaller sedan (Corolla-ish) or do we need to bump up into something more along the Outback/Tuscon/Jeep Liberty/RAV realm.
We are looking at spending 6k cash (possibly financing something at a higher pricepoint) and Craigslist is proving difficult to find a car for someone who doesn't have a car. Does anyone have a dealer they recommend in the area?
Additional difficulty: He's been told the parking lot at the barracks on base is not plowed when it snows and will be living on base for approximately a year.
What does he truly need?
Can he get by with a smaller sedan (Corolla-ish) or do we need to bump up into something more along the Outback/Tuscon/Jeep Liberty/RAV realm.
We are looking at spending 6k cash (possibly financing something at a higher pricepoint) and Craigslist is proving difficult to find a car for someone who doesn't have a car. Does anyone have a dealer they recommend in the area?
Additional difficulty: He's been told the parking lot at the barracks on base is not plowed when it snows and will be living on base for approximately a year.
I'm Canadian.
What you need to budget for are snow tires and rims.
Good winter tires make a huge difference.
They are mandatory in the Province of Quebec.
Not uncommon in Canada for people to drive a winter beater.
A small older car with decent winter tires on it.
posted by yyz at 7:07 AM on September 23, 2015 [8 favorites]
What you need to budget for are snow tires and rims.
Good winter tires make a huge difference.
They are mandatory in the Province of Quebec.
Not uncommon in Canada for people to drive a winter beater.
A small older car with decent winter tires on it.
posted by yyz at 7:07 AM on September 23, 2015 [8 favorites]
Credentials: I grew up in Portland, Oregon, but lived in Portland, Maine for a year, and my wife is from NH, spending most of her adult life in the Portsmouth area.
In most towns and cities out there, they plow roads really well there. AWD or 4WD helps, but isn't necessary. My wife owned a Honda Civic and had no problems at all; just threw on a set of snow tires in the winter. I don't even think she had a set of chains for that car. When we lived there, we drove the civic around quite a bit, but we also owned a subaru legacy (so, still low to the ground, but had AWD). It worked better; I felt much safer and much more capable driving around in winter weather with the AWD.
Your biggest problem is that the parking lot on the barracks won't be plowed. I mean, you can get feet and feet of snow, and if that shits not plowed, you're not getting a car out of it regardless of its size.
Used cars are wrecks up there, because of the winters. I really want to echo Pogo_Fuzzybutt's advice and think about getting a car local to where you are and drive it or ship it out. That salt and hard weather can just break a car down, fast, especially if it is at all neglected.
If you really need to get one in that area, be very careful, and take the prospective car to several shops to have it checked out. Do also keep in mind that Maine and NH have different laws around inspections (something we don't really have out in the PNW). This truely and utterly fucked us hard when we bought our car. The Legacy passed NH inspection, but needed about $900 dollars of work to pass Maine inspection. Its a total racket, and is really obnoxious to navigate if you're not used to the system.
posted by furnace.heart at 7:09 AM on September 23, 2015
In most towns and cities out there, they plow roads really well there. AWD or 4WD helps, but isn't necessary. My wife owned a Honda Civic and had no problems at all; just threw on a set of snow tires in the winter. I don't even think she had a set of chains for that car. When we lived there, we drove the civic around quite a bit, but we also owned a subaru legacy (so, still low to the ground, but had AWD). It worked better; I felt much safer and much more capable driving around in winter weather with the AWD.
Your biggest problem is that the parking lot on the barracks won't be plowed. I mean, you can get feet and feet of snow, and if that shits not plowed, you're not getting a car out of it regardless of its size.
Used cars are wrecks up there, because of the winters. I really want to echo Pogo_Fuzzybutt's advice and think about getting a car local to where you are and drive it or ship it out. That salt and hard weather can just break a car down, fast, especially if it is at all neglected.
If you really need to get one in that area, be very careful, and take the prospective car to several shops to have it checked out. Do also keep in mind that Maine and NH have different laws around inspections (something we don't really have out in the PNW). This truely and utterly fucked us hard when we bought our car. The Legacy passed NH inspection, but needed about $900 dollars of work to pass Maine inspection. Its a total racket, and is really obnoxious to navigate if you're not used to the system.
posted by furnace.heart at 7:09 AM on September 23, 2015
Yeah, he does not need AWD. I am from Maine and still spend time up there during the winters. I feel safest driving in the winter in a car that has a manual transmission and studded snow tires. Studding snow tires costs about $60 ($15 per tire) and makes a big difference in control on icy roads. (The tires have to be designed to be studded but they're generally not more expensive than the non-studded variety.)
The standard argument here: AWD helps you move forward. It does nothing to help you brake. As a result, AWD actually makes it easier to get your car stuck in bad driving conditions. Decent tires, on the other hand, will help you control and brake more effectively as well.
For buying beaters, you may have luck looking for listings in Uncle Henry's (print publication sold in most convenience stores) although it's bigger further north.
posted by pie ninja at 7:15 AM on September 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
The standard argument here: AWD helps you move forward. It does nothing to help you brake. As a result, AWD actually makes it easier to get your car stuck in bad driving conditions. Decent tires, on the other hand, will help you control and brake more effectively as well.
For buying beaters, you may have luck looking for listings in Uncle Henry's (print publication sold in most convenience stores) although it's bigger further north.
posted by pie ninja at 7:15 AM on September 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
As a Mainer just want to agree with everything above. A lot of people just swap out winter tires, and you'll find that actually makes a bigger difference than AWD. AWD basically just helps you start moving.
Kittery I would imagine will be pretty well plowed, as is Portland and other urban areas. They do a good job on 95/295 as well for the most part.
Make sure he knows he needs to take his car to a car wash on a REGULAR basis in the winter. Just do a drive through one where they spray underneath, or the cheaper one where you do it yourself if budget doesn't permit. As stated above, the salt/sand/chemical bullshit will eat your car up.
posted by selfnoise at 7:16 AM on September 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
Kittery I would imagine will be pretty well plowed, as is Portland and other urban areas. They do a good job on 95/295 as well for the most part.
Make sure he knows he needs to take his car to a car wash on a REGULAR basis in the winter. Just do a drive through one where they spray underneath, or the cheaper one where you do it yourself if budget doesn't permit. As stated above, the salt/sand/chemical bullshit will eat your car up.
posted by selfnoise at 7:16 AM on September 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
Best answer: He wants a 4WD/AWD because he's a young man and that's what the other guys have!
For what it's worth: I have driven a Toyota Yaris through five Massachusetts winters, including last winter in Boston (record-breaking), and the winter of 2010-11 in Western Massachusetts (ALSO TERRIBLE). It's totally doable. I don't even have snow tires, although that is because I'm lazy, not because snow tires are a bad idea. I got stuck once in my driveway and once on a city street in 2010/11 (both times actually during snowstorms). Last year, I mostly just avoided driving.
The unplowed parking lot does give me pause, but honestly there aren't a lot of parking lots that an Outback can escape but a Yaris can't. It's a fine line.
posted by mskyle at 7:16 AM on September 23, 2015
For what it's worth: I have driven a Toyota Yaris through five Massachusetts winters, including last winter in Boston (record-breaking), and the winter of 2010-11 in Western Massachusetts (ALSO TERRIBLE). It's totally doable. I don't even have snow tires, although that is because I'm lazy, not because snow tires are a bad idea. I got stuck once in my driveway and once on a city street in 2010/11 (both times actually during snowstorms). Last year, I mostly just avoided driving.
The unplowed parking lot does give me pause, but honestly there aren't a lot of parking lots that an Outback can escape but a Yaris can't. It's a fine line.
posted by mskyle at 7:16 AM on September 23, 2015
In terms of ground clearance, I'd just stay away from small sporty cars. They really don't do well in the snow. But a sedan like a Corolla or a Civic does fine, typically, as long as you drive sensibly and don't try to bull through snow-pocolypses, when the sensible thing is to hunker down until the roads clear anyway. I too have pulled out my share of idiots in 4WD trucks caught in snowbanks.
As above, the real thing he needs to do is put on winter tires. He doesn't need chains or studs (as in the PNW when you go into the interior), he just needs a second pair of cheap rims and decent winter tires. He should expect 4-5 seasons from them.
He may also want a car kit for the winter. At minimum he should have a good brush/scraper (no more than $10) and a pair of jumper cables. He should be shown, at least once, how to use those before he needs to.
posted by bonehead at 7:27 AM on September 23, 2015 [4 favorites]
As above, the real thing he needs to do is put on winter tires. He doesn't need chains or studs (as in the PNW when you go into the interior), he just needs a second pair of cheap rims and decent winter tires. He should expect 4-5 seasons from them.
He may also want a car kit for the winter. At minimum he should have a good brush/scraper (no more than $10) and a pair of jumper cables. He should be shown, at least once, how to use those before he needs to.
posted by bonehead at 7:27 AM on September 23, 2015 [4 favorites]
Lifelong Massachusetts resident, never bought snow tires, always drive little cars (2 Rabbits, a Sentra, a Civic, and a Mazda3 right now), never had AWD, always been fine. I do drive a manual transmission, though. Now that I am older and wiser I am contemplating snow tires, but where do you put them the rest of the year? Being an apartment dweller is hard, sometimes. Anyway, front-wheel drive manual transmission will get you most of the way to fine. Just don't drive like an asshole. When it snows, slow down or stay home!
posted by clone boulevard at 7:35 AM on September 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by clone boulevard at 7:35 AM on September 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
I would be surprised if the parking lot isn't sufficiently managed by bored young sailors who want to get their cars in and out (or want a ride from someone with a car). Was he told it wasn't plowed, or that it wasn't plowed and everyone just leaves their car there all winter?
posted by Lyn Never at 7:54 AM on September 23, 2015
posted by Lyn Never at 7:54 AM on September 23, 2015
Best answer: The single most effective thing you can do is get good snow tires. Mounting them on a second set of rims makes it really easy to take the all-season tires off the car and put the snow tires on. Otherwise you'll need to have a shop mount the tires every time the season changes which is hard on the tires and a PITA besides.
AWD is nice for getting through deep snow at slow speeds and ground clearance can help but winter tires will make a bigger difference than everything combined.
Personally, I like AWD in the winter because I'm a car guy and would prefer to have rear wheel drive but snow makes that untenable for me. But when a car does start losing grip, AWD changes the way the vehicle reacts. You don't get as much understeer, where you turn the wheel and the car keeps going straight (which you get with front wheel drive) and you don't get as much oversteer, where the back-end slides out and you spin (the problem with rear wheel drive). AWD will slide somewhere between those two and I'm a good enough drive and I've been driving in the snow long enough that it sometimes keeps me from getting stuck. But 95% of the time it's just nice to be able to step on the gas and pull away from everyone else with their two wheel drive and all-season tires.
An odd quirk I've noticed being in and around the car business all my life is that a lot of small economy cars can get through snow storms better than most cars this side of a humvee. The combination of front wheel drive with a fair amount of the car's weight over the front axel, narrow tires, smaller engines that make controlling power in low-grip, and pretty good handling make these cars perform in the snow a lot better than you'd think. I've personally driven Plymoth Neons, a Mazda 3, all the small Kia and Hyundia Sedans, Nissan Sentras, and a handful of others that I can't remember through all kinds of snowy conditions and the Sentra was the only one that ever gave me any issues (this is the previous generation Sentra that had kind of bad handling).
So something like a Mazda 3 with a set of snow tires is where I would start.
I'd also advise getting the fanciest windshield scraper/snow brush that you can since the super fancy ones aren't all the expensive and maybe a "Snow Broom" to keep at the base. That's what car dealers use to clean their cars off and there is no better tool for getting heaps of snow off a car without damaging the car. Any of his friends that use it will buy their own in short order.
posted by VTX at 8:31 AM on September 23, 2015 [5 favorites]
AWD is nice for getting through deep snow at slow speeds and ground clearance can help but winter tires will make a bigger difference than everything combined.
Personally, I like AWD in the winter because I'm a car guy and would prefer to have rear wheel drive but snow makes that untenable for me. But when a car does start losing grip, AWD changes the way the vehicle reacts. You don't get as much understeer, where you turn the wheel and the car keeps going straight (which you get with front wheel drive) and you don't get as much oversteer, where the back-end slides out and you spin (the problem with rear wheel drive). AWD will slide somewhere between those two and I'm a good enough drive and I've been driving in the snow long enough that it sometimes keeps me from getting stuck. But 95% of the time it's just nice to be able to step on the gas and pull away from everyone else with their two wheel drive and all-season tires.
An odd quirk I've noticed being in and around the car business all my life is that a lot of small economy cars can get through snow storms better than most cars this side of a humvee. The combination of front wheel drive with a fair amount of the car's weight over the front axel, narrow tires, smaller engines that make controlling power in low-grip, and pretty good handling make these cars perform in the snow a lot better than you'd think. I've personally driven Plymoth Neons, a Mazda 3, all the small Kia and Hyundia Sedans, Nissan Sentras, and a handful of others that I can't remember through all kinds of snowy conditions and the Sentra was the only one that ever gave me any issues (this is the previous generation Sentra that had kind of bad handling).
So something like a Mazda 3 with a set of snow tires is where I would start.
I'd also advise getting the fanciest windshield scraper/snow brush that you can since the super fancy ones aren't all the expensive and maybe a "Snow Broom" to keep at the base. That's what car dealers use to clean their cars off and there is no better tool for getting heaps of snow off a car without damaging the car. Any of his friends that use it will buy their own in short order.
posted by VTX at 8:31 AM on September 23, 2015 [5 favorites]
Lived in Kittery for six years, less than a mile from the base. Good tires are the true key, and everything VTX said is right on.
posted by DuckGirl at 9:11 AM on September 23, 2015
posted by DuckGirl at 9:11 AM on September 23, 2015
Accessory wise, he'll also want to replace the stock floor mats with deep rubber ones. You can get custom ones for individual car models, but for a beater I'd just get the universal ones. They're much cheaper and do 99% of the job of the custom ones, IME.
posted by bonehead at 9:38 AM on September 23, 2015
posted by bonehead at 9:38 AM on September 23, 2015
When I lived in Maine I was fine with a manual transmission front-wheel drive VW Jetta and all-season tires.
Even driving down roads where the snow was so deep I could hear it scraping along the undercarriage of the car as i drove.
posted by Gev at 9:41 AM on September 23, 2015 [4 favorites]
Even driving down roads where the snow was so deep I could hear it scraping along the undercarriage of the car as i drove.
posted by Gev at 9:41 AM on September 23, 2015 [4 favorites]
Driving skill is the most important thing. Good tires are really important. AWD or 4WD is really nice to have, and that will be reflected in the price. Mainers love Subarus because they are usually AWD and are relatively affordable.
On base - He should talk to others to see if people tend to shovel out a spot and 'own' it, as not plowing parking areas is kind of unusual. I was away last winter, but there was so much snow that an unplowed lot would have been impassable from January to March.
posted by theora55 at 9:48 AM on September 23, 2015
On base - He should talk to others to see if people tend to shovel out a spot and 'own' it, as not plowing parking areas is kind of unusual. I was away last winter, but there was so much snow that an unplowed lot would have been impassable from January to March.
posted by theora55 at 9:48 AM on September 23, 2015
Twenty years as a Maine driver (and other parts of New England before and after). Honda Accord does just fine in snow and starts up. The other part of the equation, besides getting through the snow, is a car that doesn't care how cold it is and starts reliably.
Don't see it mentioned above: highly recommend studded snow tires (legal in Maine Oct. 1 through May 1). Eases anxiety on ice and highly packed snow.
Unpitted windshield extremely helpful in long dark nights, as it reduces glare. And consider new headlight assemblies if you're looking at an older car with some miles on it. Old yellowed plastic all too common, and really reduces visibility.
posted by xaryts at 11:28 AM on September 23, 2015
Don't see it mentioned above: highly recommend studded snow tires (legal in Maine Oct. 1 through May 1). Eases anxiety on ice and highly packed snow.
Unpitted windshield extremely helpful in long dark nights, as it reduces glare. And consider new headlight assemblies if you're looking at an older car with some miles on it. Old yellowed plastic all too common, and really reduces visibility.
posted by xaryts at 11:28 AM on September 23, 2015
Spent several years living in Maine (Farmington, which is the edge of the western mountains, but still fairly flat where I was.)
I drive a 2007 Tucson that was a handmedown from a relative, but turned out to be a fairly good car. I did find the clearance helpful more than once, but didn't need AWD. Usually the day or so after a big storm, I wouldn't want to drive beyond the bare necessities (work), but after that the roads are pretty well plowed. There would be days I'd cancel stuff with more driving, but that was 'driving on not great roads for distance is often tiring, and I can do this fun thing some other day' than 'can't get there safely'.
I previously lived in Minneapolis, and one nice change in Maine was that daytimes usually got warm enough that you'd get stuff melting and then drying, rather than the endless pack of glacial ice forming on the roads.
posted by modernhypatia at 3:41 PM on September 23, 2015
I drive a 2007 Tucson that was a handmedown from a relative, but turned out to be a fairly good car. I did find the clearance helpful more than once, but didn't need AWD. Usually the day or so after a big storm, I wouldn't want to drive beyond the bare necessities (work), but after that the roads are pretty well plowed. There would be days I'd cancel stuff with more driving, but that was 'driving on not great roads for distance is often tiring, and I can do this fun thing some other day' than 'can't get there safely'.
I previously lived in Minneapolis, and one nice change in Maine was that daytimes usually got warm enough that you'd get stuff melting and then drying, rather than the endless pack of glacial ice forming on the roads.
posted by modernhypatia at 3:41 PM on September 23, 2015
Studded tires could be a problem for trips out of Maine, say to Boston.
posted by SemiSalt at 3:55 PM on September 23, 2015
posted by SemiSalt at 3:55 PM on September 23, 2015
Response by poster: Just a quick note to close. I very much appreciated everyone's advice here on the green and my son and I found a lovely 2010 Toyota Corolla S with very little rust and low miles that will be perfect for his current situation.
It wasn't hard to convince him to step away from the 4WD/AWD mode of thinking, especially in regard to the availability of used cars in the area and the fact that once I was gone at the end of the week he was going to be hard up for ways to go shopping for a car.
This all said, they haven't had a lick of bad weather in Kittery... but January is coming.
Editing to add: we (legally) licensed the car in WA state as that is his legal residence while in the military. There were benefits to doing so by way of taxation and inspections. It has a current NH inspection though, so I may suggest he keep that up to ease in selling the car if he decides to when he moves onward in the military
posted by Mysterious Trousers at 8:10 AM on December 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
It wasn't hard to convince him to step away from the 4WD/AWD mode of thinking, especially in regard to the availability of used cars in the area and the fact that once I was gone at the end of the week he was going to be hard up for ways to go shopping for a car.
This all said, they haven't had a lick of bad weather in Kittery... but January is coming.
Editing to add: we (legally) licensed the car in WA state as that is his legal residence while in the military. There were benefits to doing so by way of taxation and inspections. It has a current NH inspection though, so I may suggest he keep that up to ease in selling the car if he decides to when he moves onward in the military
posted by Mysterious Trousers at 8:10 AM on December 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
One of the problems you are going to have is that they salt the hell out of the roads there, and that destroys cars in very short order. That means that the used market tends to be skewed. You may just be better off finding one at home in the NW and driving it out there - it was much cheaper to find a used car for my son here in CO and take it to him in MN than it was to find an equivalent car there.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 7:03 AM on September 23, 2015 [1 favorite]