How to deal when people reflexively "Well, On The Bright Side…" me?
April 6, 2019 11:52 AM Subscribe
This has probably been happening my whole life, but recently it’s really gotten under my skin. I’ve noticed that some people in my life, upon hearing any kind of negative statement from me, or about any negative thing that has happened in my life, immediately respond with, "At least…" or "On the bright side.." in a way that makes me feel angry, diminished and as if I’m being implicitly told, "Shut up and stop complaining." I’m looking for good strategies to deal with this both internally and externally.
I’ll preface this by saying that to everyone but my very inner circle (who this does not apply to), I am perceived as very positive, calm, enthusiastic and supportive. I am typically hesitant to share anything negative, or to complain to anyone except my husband and a handful of close friends/family members.
Here are some examples of what I’m talking about:
Sharing news that my parent died of a heart attack - "Well, at least it was quick and he didn’t suffer!"
While hobbling up stairs on crutches due to leg injury. - "Hey, at least you’re strengthening your arms!" (from crutches)
Telling my MIL that the airline cancelled our holiday flights at the last minute - "At least you found out before you got to the airport!"
Praising someone’s sunny vacation pictures and mentioning that it has been cloudy basically every day of 2019 in San Francisco - "Well, I’d take rain and clouds over California drought any day!" (from a relative who does not live in CA)
I think the tricky thing about these responses are, well, YES of course? Yes, my father died suddenly, and of course it was fortunate that he didn't suffer? But, how is that in any way a supportive thing to say, and how would that negate that it's a really tragic occurrence?
And even in a trivial case like cloudiness, well YES? Rain is better than drought, duh? However living in what seems like permanent clouds/rain can also have an effect on people, and telling me that my feelings are wrong only makes me feel worse.
The things I WANT to be hearing are, "Oh wow, thanks for letting me know" or "That’s a bummer." When I hear instead, "At least it’s not…" I am hearing "I don’t want to engage with this hard news" and/or "I’m judging you for being negative and whiny when worse things have happened to other people."
I'm sure people have responded like this for my whole life, but it’s only been in the last few years that it has started to drive me crazy. I don't know why it's frustrating me now but it may be that I have dealt with some tough stuff in the last few years, around the death of a parent, major injury, etc., where it really stings if people diminish it, and my emotions about it are trickling down to even minuscule occurrences of it.
If you have had this experience, what do you say, and more importantly, what do you think/do internally to move on?
I’ll preface this by saying that to everyone but my very inner circle (who this does not apply to), I am perceived as very positive, calm, enthusiastic and supportive. I am typically hesitant to share anything negative, or to complain to anyone except my husband and a handful of close friends/family members.
Here are some examples of what I’m talking about:
Sharing news that my parent died of a heart attack - "Well, at least it was quick and he didn’t suffer!"
While hobbling up stairs on crutches due to leg injury. - "Hey, at least you’re strengthening your arms!" (from crutches)
Telling my MIL that the airline cancelled our holiday flights at the last minute - "At least you found out before you got to the airport!"
Praising someone’s sunny vacation pictures and mentioning that it has been cloudy basically every day of 2019 in San Francisco - "Well, I’d take rain and clouds over California drought any day!" (from a relative who does not live in CA)
I think the tricky thing about these responses are, well, YES of course? Yes, my father died suddenly, and of course it was fortunate that he didn't suffer? But, how is that in any way a supportive thing to say, and how would that negate that it's a really tragic occurrence?
And even in a trivial case like cloudiness, well YES? Rain is better than drought, duh? However living in what seems like permanent clouds/rain can also have an effect on people, and telling me that my feelings are wrong only makes me feel worse.
The things I WANT to be hearing are, "Oh wow, thanks for letting me know" or "That’s a bummer." When I hear instead, "At least it’s not…" I am hearing "I don’t want to engage with this hard news" and/or "I’m judging you for being negative and whiny when worse things have happened to other people."
I'm sure people have responded like this for my whole life, but it’s only been in the last few years that it has started to drive me crazy. I don't know why it's frustrating me now but it may be that I have dealt with some tough stuff in the last few years, around the death of a parent, major injury, etc., where it really stings if people diminish it, and my emotions about it are trickling down to even minuscule occurrences of it.
If you have had this experience, what do you say, and more importantly, what do you think/do internally to move on?
what do you think/do internally to move on?
I feel relief in learning that I'm not the only one who says unthinking or inappropriate or clunky things now and then.
I realize this comment may also qualify as such, so I apologize for myself and other clunkers, and send you empathy for your losses and troubles.
posted by sageleaf at 12:09 PM on April 6, 2019 [14 favorites]
I feel relief in learning that I'm not the only one who says unthinking or inappropriate or clunky things now and then.
I realize this comment may also qualify as such, so I apologize for myself and other clunkers, and send you empathy for your losses and troubles.
posted by sageleaf at 12:09 PM on April 6, 2019 [14 favorites]
Personally I'm on the other side of this when I have to tell people about the shit I'm dealing with, I'm the one minimizing it because it makes me SO uncomfortable to have to say & hear things that I don't like to say and hear. So grasping at straws to find anything else to say is how I minimize that discomfort. When I'm listening to someone else's bad news I try to just acknowledge how bad it is and then just listen, but not everybody is as good at conversation as I am.
I know it sounds minimizing, and it's probably driving you crazy because you want the truth you're swimming in to just be acknowledged. But I really don't think people do this for any reason other than not knowing what to say and not wanting to make you feel worse by putting yet another negative thought into your thoughts. We have a lot of cultural guidelines around trying to not to say negative things when at all possible, especially around people that you're not intimately comfortable with and people are just trying to stay inside the conversational lines.
If you really feel like they're saying this stuff for the actual purpose of trying to get you to put your feelings away where they won't be bothersome anymore then these are just shitty people who aren't worth your time. But I would be really surprised if it turned out that was what was going on.
posted by bleep at 12:33 PM on April 6, 2019 [7 favorites]
I know it sounds minimizing, and it's probably driving you crazy because you want the truth you're swimming in to just be acknowledged. But I really don't think people do this for any reason other than not knowing what to say and not wanting to make you feel worse by putting yet another negative thought into your thoughts. We have a lot of cultural guidelines around trying to not to say negative things when at all possible, especially around people that you're not intimately comfortable with and people are just trying to stay inside the conversational lines.
If you really feel like they're saying this stuff for the actual purpose of trying to get you to put your feelings away where they won't be bothersome anymore then these are just shitty people who aren't worth your time. But I would be really surprised if it turned out that was what was going on.
posted by bleep at 12:33 PM on April 6, 2019 [7 favorites]
Best answer: This cartoon from Brene Brown's work often makes the rounds among my Facebook friends. Might be validating for you to watch, and helpful for your support network to watch?
posted by lazuli at 12:38 PM on April 6, 2019 [8 favorites]
posted by lazuli at 12:38 PM on April 6, 2019 [8 favorites]
Best answer: This reminds me of one of Austrian Friedrich Torberg‘s famous Tante Jolesch anecdotes. Tante Jolesch, you see, doesn‘t take shit from anyone.
After after a series of mishaps, to which people have reflexively responded with „Grad noch ein Glück, dass...“ („You’re lucky, at least, that...“) Tante Jolesch snaps, „Gott soll einen hüten vor allem, was noch ein Glück ist.“ („May God save us from all the things that are, at least, lucky.“)
I mean, it‘s, what, a century old and sounds awkward in translation, but my husband and I quote that comeback at each other at least once a month and it‘s oh so satisfying.
posted by Omnomnom at 12:56 PM on April 6, 2019 [16 favorites]
After after a series of mishaps, to which people have reflexively responded with „Grad noch ein Glück, dass...“ („You’re lucky, at least, that...“) Tante Jolesch snaps, „Gott soll einen hüten vor allem, was noch ein Glück ist.“ („May God save us from all the things that are, at least, lucky.“)
I mean, it‘s, what, a century old and sounds awkward in translation, but my husband and I quote that comeback at each other at least once a month and it‘s oh so satisfying.
posted by Omnomnom at 12:56 PM on April 6, 2019 [16 favorites]
Best answer: I usually take the opportunity reframe the comment then share my feelings. To wit:
Sharing news that my parent died of a heart attack - "Well, at least it was quick and he didn’t suffer!"
Me: "I know, but I wish he had a much longer life. I'm bereft that he died so suddenly."
While hobbling up stairs on crutches due to leg injury. - "Hey, at least you’re strengthening your arms!" (from crutches)
Me: "I'd rather be strengthen my arms by lifting weights. Crutches are the worst! Then there's my leg. Ugh."
Telling my MIL that the airline cancelled our holiday flights at the last minute - "At least you found out before you got to the airport!"
Me: "I suppose, but I still wish we were sitting on the beach right now. Missing our vacation really sucks."
Praising someone’s sunny vacation pictures and mentioning that it has been cloudy basically every day of 2019 in San Francisco - "Well, I’d take rain and clouds over California drought any day!" (from a relative who does not live in CA)
Me: "Well come visit so you can experience what a two-minute shower is like."
When friends or family don't know what to say, they should simply say: "I'm so sorry." Or: Ugh, that's awful." Or: "Geez, does that ever suck." Show empathy not some kind of weird, sunny denial. Sometimes the glass really is half empty.
posted by Elsie at 12:57 PM on April 6, 2019 [17 favorites]
Sharing news that my parent died of a heart attack - "Well, at least it was quick and he didn’t suffer!"
Me: "I know, but I wish he had a much longer life. I'm bereft that he died so suddenly."
While hobbling up stairs on crutches due to leg injury. - "Hey, at least you’re strengthening your arms!" (from crutches)
Me: "I'd rather be strengthen my arms by lifting weights. Crutches are the worst! Then there's my leg. Ugh."
Telling my MIL that the airline cancelled our holiday flights at the last minute - "At least you found out before you got to the airport!"
Me: "I suppose, but I still wish we were sitting on the beach right now. Missing our vacation really sucks."
Praising someone’s sunny vacation pictures and mentioning that it has been cloudy basically every day of 2019 in San Francisco - "Well, I’d take rain and clouds over California drought any day!" (from a relative who does not live in CA)
Me: "Well come visit so you can experience what a two-minute shower is like."
When friends or family don't know what to say, they should simply say: "I'm so sorry." Or: Ugh, that's awful." Or: "Geez, does that ever suck." Show empathy not some kind of weird, sunny denial. Sometimes the glass really is half empty.
posted by Elsie at 12:57 PM on April 6, 2019 [17 favorites]
This is very normal in US culture, though frustrating for you. It’s how I often deal with my own problems, though I know not to do it with other people. It comes up a lot in advice for what not to say to someone who is grieving. The reason it’s mentioned in this context is because it’s so common. Also, people are very uncomfortable with grief especially because people don’t want to deal with it. (My personal favorite was, So are you pretty much over your brother’s death? This was said by two different people on the same day six weeks after he died at the age of 31.)
I think the only way to solve this is to be very direct. “When you tell me to look on the bright side, I feel like you’re minimizing how hard this really is.” This may or may not help.
posted by FencingGal at 1:05 PM on April 6, 2019 [2 favorites]
I think the only way to solve this is to be very direct. “When you tell me to look on the bright side, I feel like you’re minimizing how hard this really is.” This may or may not help.
posted by FencingGal at 1:05 PM on April 6, 2019 [2 favorites]
Best answer: "I'm sure I'll see it that way eventually. Right now, it just makes me feel [what you are feeling]."
posted by Too-Ticky at 1:19 PM on April 6, 2019 [34 favorites]
posted by Too-Ticky at 1:19 PM on April 6, 2019 [34 favorites]
Best answer: If it helps your psyche any, I think your first guess: "I don’t want to engage with this hard news" or sometimes "My heart goes out to them, I wish I could ease their pain" are probably far more common. So, to hear this as clumsy rather than judgmental. It's still not what you need to hear but at least you wouldn't have to added burden of thinking that others are hearing you as whiny.
Do you know the expression, "Every cloud has a silver lining"? Well, my response is "I would happily give up the silver lining, if I could avoid being in this miserable freezing downpour" Now, whether you say this out loud (and there are lots of examples above that are variations on this) depends on your assessment of the other person. If you think they really care about what you're feeling, suggesting a better response might actually elicit the sympathy that you need. On the hand, if they are just trying to manage their own feelings, pointing out that what they said was not helpful could just trigger more defensives than you want or need to deal with.
And for the people that are worth engage with, particularly if they are close to you, just saying "Right now, I just need to hear [fill in the blank]" will prompt high quality friends to quickly say, "Oh, sorry. Of course. [repeat what you just asked for]" And the fact that they listen and cared and corrected might actually feel even better than if they had just gotten right the first time.
posted by metahawk at 2:05 PM on April 6, 2019 [3 favorites]
Do you know the expression, "Every cloud has a silver lining"? Well, my response is "I would happily give up the silver lining, if I could avoid being in this miserable freezing downpour" Now, whether you say this out loud (and there are lots of examples above that are variations on this) depends on your assessment of the other person. If you think they really care about what you're feeling, suggesting a better response might actually elicit the sympathy that you need. On the hand, if they are just trying to manage their own feelings, pointing out that what they said was not helpful could just trigger more defensives than you want or need to deal with.
And for the people that are worth engage with, particularly if they are close to you, just saying "Right now, I just need to hear [fill in the blank]" will prompt high quality friends to quickly say, "Oh, sorry. Of course. [repeat what you just asked for]" And the fact that they listen and cared and corrected might actually feel even better than if they had just gotten right the first time.
posted by metahawk at 2:05 PM on April 6, 2019 [3 favorites]
I think it helps not to parse these things as though they're meant literally. This is a politeness thing, a script that got built up by society that is not necessarily a very good script but is still the expected thing to say under the circumstances, at least in the US. It is like saying "bless you" when someone sneezes, which does not actually bless anybody and does not do anything about the sneeze. The scripted version of this is "at least ", but the thing you're supposed to imply afterwards is the "but I am acknowledging that does suck". I wish that the way people do this included that latter part, but the thing is, they think they are saying that, they just aren't saying the words. If anything, if the "on the up side" part sounds ridiculous, it's supposed to sound ridiculous, because it is socially accepted that you know you aren't really pointing out a thing that makes it okay.
People you know and are close to, you have a good way to ask them to say something different. So your mother-in-law, unless you're really strained with her in general? Tell her how this makes you feel. With strangers, think about the intent more than what they're saying. It is weird, but social conventions often are if you think about them too much.
posted by Sequence at 2:07 PM on April 6, 2019 [11 favorites]
People you know and are close to, you have a good way to ask them to say something different. So your mother-in-law, unless you're really strained with her in general? Tell her how this makes you feel. With strangers, think about the intent more than what they're saying. It is weird, but social conventions often are if you think about them too much.
posted by Sequence at 2:07 PM on April 6, 2019 [11 favorites]
If you have had this experience, what do you say, and more importantly, what do you think/do internally to move on?
Ugh. Yes, it has been happening your whole life, cause it is everywhere and I am guessing most of us resort to this type of statement more often than we care to admit. You are probably noticing it more often now because you are needing more from people than you are getting.
So the way I deal with it is to just take note of people in my life who tend to do this, and avoid having conversations with them that will go in this direction. I try not to make it black or white. I have lots of friends who are absolutely magnificent friends in many other ways and would bail me out of jail or give me shelter or money or help me if I was deathly ill. But they do the minimizing pain thing, so I just leave that off the table, or share when I want and not expect any kind of 5-star response.
posted by nanook at 2:08 PM on April 6, 2019 [2 favorites]
Ugh. Yes, it has been happening your whole life, cause it is everywhere and I am guessing most of us resort to this type of statement more often than we care to admit. You are probably noticing it more often now because you are needing more from people than you are getting.
So the way I deal with it is to just take note of people in my life who tend to do this, and avoid having conversations with them that will go in this direction. I try not to make it black or white. I have lots of friends who are absolutely magnificent friends in many other ways and would bail me out of jail or give me shelter or money or help me if I was deathly ill. But they do the minimizing pain thing, so I just leave that off the table, or share when I want and not expect any kind of 5-star response.
posted by nanook at 2:08 PM on April 6, 2019 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I try to work from the assumption that a person who says something like that is sympathetic but not necessarily tuned into my support needs. For me, it’s not really helpful to assume that the other person is judging or doesn’t want to offer support.*
If it’s sharing something I’m still processing, I usually respond with some variant of “Yes, but right now I just want to process/vent.” If it’s something that happened in the past that I’m already good with, I’ll usually say something along the lines of “It’s okay, I don’t need you to try to make me feel better better about it. I just wanted you to know this to understand me a bit better.”
I think the important thing if I’m going to ask someone to change their behavior is to be clear about what behavior I prefer instead. If they still do this after I’ve been clear about what I’m actually looking for, then I’ll accept they’re either unwilling or unable to do the work to be supportive. If that’s the case, they lose the privilege of knowing me and my life except on the most superficial of levels.
* Perhaps I am just bad at it, but figuring out someone’s motives gets me nowhere. I learned the hard way to simply look at a person’s actions.
On preview, pretty much exactly what metahawk said!
posted by estelahe at 2:13 PM on April 6, 2019 [4 favorites]
If it’s sharing something I’m still processing, I usually respond with some variant of “Yes, but right now I just want to process/vent.” If it’s something that happened in the past that I’m already good with, I’ll usually say something along the lines of “It’s okay, I don’t need you to try to make me feel better better about it. I just wanted you to know this to understand me a bit better.”
I think the important thing if I’m going to ask someone to change their behavior is to be clear about what behavior I prefer instead. If they still do this after I’ve been clear about what I’m actually looking for, then I’ll accept they’re either unwilling or unable to do the work to be supportive. If that’s the case, they lose the privilege of knowing me and my life except on the most superficial of levels.
* Perhaps I am just bad at it, but figuring out someone’s motives gets me nowhere. I learned the hard way to simply look at a person’s actions.
On preview, pretty much exactly what metahawk said!
posted by estelahe at 2:13 PM on April 6, 2019 [4 favorites]
When it really started to annoy me, I read Barbara Ehrenreich's book Bright-Sided (though the UK edition, pleasingly titled "Smile or die"). It was validating to know I am not the only one to be annoyed by the same thing you are and interesting to learn more about why this attitude is so common.
As for what to say to people when it happens - well, I have low expectations of most people conversationally and I have my misanthropic tendencies. I have also found people that I know will not do that and try to reserve my emotional honesty for them.
posted by Athanassiel at 2:29 PM on April 6, 2019 [1 favorite]
As for what to say to people when it happens - well, I have low expectations of most people conversationally and I have my misanthropic tendencies. I have also found people that I know will not do that and try to reserve my emotional honesty for them.
posted by Athanassiel at 2:29 PM on April 6, 2019 [1 favorite]
Oh jeez, I am sorry, I am this person. Not with actual shitstorms, but bad-but-not-terrible things. It doesn't help that my husband actually likes this response.
For what it's worth, I am not intending to minimise your pain - it's a mixture of habit and, after the obvious "oh no, how awful, that must be gutting for you," I don't know what to say and I'm socially awkward and sort of panic-reach for what comes to mind. I also have a history of depression that leads me to now avoid focusing on negatives and try to find at least a small positive, which can come out when I'm talking to OTHER people in a way that is obviously not great.
It's also probably a reflection of how people are used to dealing with hard stuff themselves - I've had conversations with acquaintances or strangers along the lines of "my dad is dead" "oh no, I'm so sorry" "It's OK. It was quick, so at least he didn't suffer." So I suspect that some people are just repeating what they know in an attempt to be sympathetic. Being sympathetic successfully is a life skill, and it is hard. I am not good at it, although I try my best, I'm so afraid of treading on people's toes and making it worse that I probably come across as cold.
Maybe if you got a chance to talk with your inner circle about these things more, it would bother you less? Is it possible you're feeling ground down and just need a bit more support than you're getting at the moment? If so can you take a break as much as possible from people you have to be positive, calm and enthusiastic around for a while?
(Some of these are weird though, like the airport one or the rain one. I'd put them down to people just grasping for things to say and not thinking it through.)
posted by stillnocturnal at 2:40 PM on April 6, 2019 [11 favorites]
For what it's worth, I am not intending to minimise your pain - it's a mixture of habit and, after the obvious "oh no, how awful, that must be gutting for you," I don't know what to say and I'm socially awkward and sort of panic-reach for what comes to mind. I also have a history of depression that leads me to now avoid focusing on negatives and try to find at least a small positive, which can come out when I'm talking to OTHER people in a way that is obviously not great.
It's also probably a reflection of how people are used to dealing with hard stuff themselves - I've had conversations with acquaintances or strangers along the lines of "my dad is dead" "oh no, I'm so sorry" "It's OK. It was quick, so at least he didn't suffer." So I suspect that some people are just repeating what they know in an attempt to be sympathetic. Being sympathetic successfully is a life skill, and it is hard. I am not good at it, although I try my best, I'm so afraid of treading on people's toes and making it worse that I probably come across as cold.
Maybe if you got a chance to talk with your inner circle about these things more, it would bother you less? Is it possible you're feeling ground down and just need a bit more support than you're getting at the moment? If so can you take a break as much as possible from people you have to be positive, calm and enthusiastic around for a while?
(Some of these are weird though, like the airport one or the rain one. I'd put them down to people just grasping for things to say and not thinking it through.)
posted by stillnocturnal at 2:40 PM on April 6, 2019 [11 favorites]
Best answer: Oh, I feel you.
It bothered me a lot when I was actively grieving, less now that I’ve had some space between really sad things- but i could have stabbed a guy for telling me “at least they didn’t suffer” or some such.
I had to focus on their inability to deal with the visible discomfort of others. It helped me let it go, and allowed me to center my irritation on their poor social skills and ignorance rather than just boiling with rage. I don’t know why that made me feel better, it just did.
It also kinda gave me a clue on how to take their discomfort and twist the knife a little. This is not a nice thing to do... but I did it when I thought they were particularly deserving. “Oh, you don’t want to deal with this terrible information that I am living with right now so you’re minimizing it? Watch me redirect it to more graphic and painful details. Just for you.” It’s really really not a nice thing and I don’t really recommend it, but it was satisfying when I was drowning in grief.
posted by Blisterlips at 3:48 PM on April 6, 2019 [2 favorites]
It bothered me a lot when I was actively grieving, less now that I’ve had some space between really sad things- but i could have stabbed a guy for telling me “at least they didn’t suffer” or some such.
I had to focus on their inability to deal with the visible discomfort of others. It helped me let it go, and allowed me to center my irritation on their poor social skills and ignorance rather than just boiling with rage. I don’t know why that made me feel better, it just did.
It also kinda gave me a clue on how to take their discomfort and twist the knife a little. This is not a nice thing to do... but I did it when I thought they were particularly deserving. “Oh, you don’t want to deal with this terrible information that I am living with right now so you’re minimizing it? Watch me redirect it to more graphic and painful details. Just for you.” It’s really really not a nice thing and I don’t really recommend it, but it was satisfying when I was drowning in grief.
posted by Blisterlips at 3:48 PM on April 6, 2019 [2 favorites]
Ugh - totally feel you, and this makes me cringe every single time. But then I catch myself doing this as well; it's culturally reflexive sometimes, almost in the same vein of asking "how are you" as a greeting . But people mean well.
My internal response in these situations: "*snort* easy for you to say". I dont recommend saying this out loud.
My external response is usually simple non-commital phrases like "perhaps" or "I suppose".
posted by cgg at 4:10 PM on April 6, 2019
My internal response in these situations: "*snort* easy for you to say". I dont recommend saying this out loud.
My external response is usually simple non-commital phrases like "perhaps" or "I suppose".
posted by cgg at 4:10 PM on April 6, 2019
As with most things, you have a couple options: avoid those people/conversations, or talk to them about it.
I have a friend who has said to me, "I appreciate that this is a hard conversation, but what you're giving me is not what I need right now. I really need someone to listen and not judge." If it's a relationship you care about, could you be honest and say, "You know, the silver lining responses aren't what I need from you right now. I need someone to tell me they really hear me when I say this is a hard time." Or whatever feels right to you.
Most of my empathetic conversational skills came from 66 hours of rape crisis counseling training. Most people haven't had that kind of training, although we probably could all use it. A lot of it is just how to communicate empathy effectively.
posted by greermahoney at 6:19 PM on April 6, 2019 [3 favorites]
I have a friend who has said to me, "I appreciate that this is a hard conversation, but what you're giving me is not what I need right now. I really need someone to listen and not judge." If it's a relationship you care about, could you be honest and say, "You know, the silver lining responses aren't what I need from you right now. I need someone to tell me they really hear me when I say this is a hard time." Or whatever feels right to you.
Most of my empathetic conversational skills came from 66 hours of rape crisis counseling training. Most people haven't had that kind of training, although we probably could all use it. A lot of it is just how to communicate empathy effectively.
posted by greermahoney at 6:19 PM on April 6, 2019 [3 favorites]
I probably do this to friends, and will catch myself (sometimes) when they're not the sort to appreciate this kind of response (some are, some aren't). One thing that sometimes works is, "yeah, thanks; it still sucks, though." Which is often enough for a reflexive cheerer-upper to shift to sympathy smoothly, and is still pretty direct and honest.
posted by pykrete jungle at 6:38 PM on April 6, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by pykrete jungle at 6:38 PM on April 6, 2019 [1 favorite]
Many years ago when I was still a fledgling adult, I suddenly realized I was doing this chronically - mindlessly, just auto-reaction, not even thinking about the words coming out of my face - and now I'm mostly hyper-aware of it when I hear/do it, and I feel like it is a form of conversational tic for a lot of people who really don't mean it that way but it sure comes out bad*.
It is actually pretty easy to phrase the same sentiment in a more mindful way, by acknowledging first and then bright-siding second: "Oh my god, that sucks so much, I'm sorry. I'm glad you hadn't already paid to Uber to the airport before you found out."
I don't know if that helps you to hold in your head; there's not much you can do about other people doing it to you unless you're prepared to ding them for it (and maybe some people in your life you actually can, because of the nature of your relationship), though you can model it yourself in your interactions with them.
*I have a friend who got into a verbal rut for a while of thinking in her head she was saying something empathetic but what actually came out of her mouth, constantly, was "You think that's bad? I (suffered some worse thing)!" I did not know how to bring it up and so ended up standing there, mortified, when someone finally flipped their shit on her because yeah actually, they did think it was bad (it was, in fact, pretty bad). And she deserved that shitflip, and they deserved the opportunity to tell her to go fuck herself. She did stop doing it after that.
posted by Lyn Never at 6:48 PM on April 6, 2019 [4 favorites]
It is actually pretty easy to phrase the same sentiment in a more mindful way, by acknowledging first and then bright-siding second: "Oh my god, that sucks so much, I'm sorry. I'm glad you hadn't already paid to Uber to the airport before you found out."
I don't know if that helps you to hold in your head; there's not much you can do about other people doing it to you unless you're prepared to ding them for it (and maybe some people in your life you actually can, because of the nature of your relationship), though you can model it yourself in your interactions with them.
*I have a friend who got into a verbal rut for a while of thinking in her head she was saying something empathetic but what actually came out of her mouth, constantly, was "You think that's bad? I (suffered some worse thing)!" I did not know how to bring it up and so ended up standing there, mortified, when someone finally flipped their shit on her because yeah actually, they did think it was bad (it was, in fact, pretty bad). And she deserved that shitflip, and they deserved the opportunity to tell her to go fuck herself. She did stop doing it after that.
posted by Lyn Never at 6:48 PM on April 6, 2019 [4 favorites]
It's definitely an awful feeling to have your grief minimized like this. I'm sorry you've been experiencing so much loss lately; I have found that my patience for this kind of thoughtless comment disappeared completely during times of heavy grief. You are perfectly justified in being hurt by it.
I agree with others above who said this is mindless and reflexive. One thing I have resorted to on occasion is being really blunt when people say something actually hurtful (ie the response to your dad's death): "Actually, I'm really grieving this loss right now and that kind of comment isn't any kind of comfort or consolation." Coming from someone who is (as you described yourself) usually calm and positive, it will likely jar the other person into realizing their own thoughtlessness.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 9:54 PM on April 6, 2019 [2 favorites]
I agree with others above who said this is mindless and reflexive. One thing I have resorted to on occasion is being really blunt when people say something actually hurtful (ie the response to your dad's death): "Actually, I'm really grieving this loss right now and that kind of comment isn't any kind of comfort or consolation." Coming from someone who is (as you described yourself) usually calm and positive, it will likely jar the other person into realizing their own thoughtlessness.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 9:54 PM on April 6, 2019 [2 favorites]
This bothers me too and I wish I had a great strategy to offer, but truthfully the only things I've come up with are A. don't say negative things around certain people, B. lower my expectations.
One thing I do internally is try to classify the person's response. I believe there are basically two categories:
- People who just aren't sure how to react. Agree with Sequence that "at least" is an established script that people revert to. I think often they're (ironically) afraid to say the wrong thing.
- People who can't handle the fact that bad things happen and have to seek out some explanation that restores the karmic balance. Folks who ask a lot of questions about the circumstances, making it obvious that they're (consciously or not) exploring the possibility that it might even be the unfortunate person's fault that something bad happened to them. E.g. they ignored warning signs/red flags, had no common sense, etc.
Like Blisterlips I find the second category infuriating and sometimes I'll try to push back--to anticipate the narrative they're constructing in their head and provide extra details that make it collapse. But really only the first time, after that I just find it easier to write them off and not say negative things.
Since you have a reputation for being positive/enthusiastic, I'm sure you get the "at least" reaction about 10 times as much as I do, so maybe this is not helpful. But I do find it easy to forgive if I've concluded someone is in the first category.
posted by equalpants at 4:09 AM on April 7, 2019 [2 favorites]
One thing I do internally is try to classify the person's response. I believe there are basically two categories:
- People who just aren't sure how to react. Agree with Sequence that "at least" is an established script that people revert to. I think often they're (ironically) afraid to say the wrong thing.
- People who can't handle the fact that bad things happen and have to seek out some explanation that restores the karmic balance. Folks who ask a lot of questions about the circumstances, making it obvious that they're (consciously or not) exploring the possibility that it might even be the unfortunate person's fault that something bad happened to them. E.g. they ignored warning signs/red flags, had no common sense, etc.
Like Blisterlips I find the second category infuriating and sometimes I'll try to push back--to anticipate the narrative they're constructing in their head and provide extra details that make it collapse. But really only the first time, after that I just find it easier to write them off and not say negative things.
Since you have a reputation for being positive/enthusiastic, I'm sure you get the "at least" reaction about 10 times as much as I do, so maybe this is not helpful. But I do find it easy to forgive if I've concluded someone is in the first category.
posted by equalpants at 4:09 AM on April 7, 2019 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Less than three hours after I originally read your post, my best friend did this to me. I've really been struggling with depression, and life events on top of it, and illness and physical health issues on top of those. And he "Well at least you didn't have to deal with..."
When he was done, I said, "Two things. One. When you say to me, 'Well at least you didn't have to deal with...' you are minimizing, dismissing, condescending, and belittling me and my experiences and my emotions. I know you don't mean to do that, but you're doing it anyway. Two. That's freaking crazy that yo u're having to deal with that, and I'm so sorry that's going on."
I typically exist on Team See Something, Say Something, and I don't just apply it to criminal matters. It goes for shitty personing of all kinds. I figure, how are people going to learn their behavior sucks if nobody tells them their behavior sucks?
posted by The Almighty Mommy Goddess at 7:36 AM on April 7, 2019 [1 favorite]
When he was done, I said, "Two things. One. When you say to me, 'Well at least you didn't have to deal with...' you are minimizing, dismissing, condescending, and belittling me and my experiences and my emotions. I know you don't mean to do that, but you're doing it anyway. Two. That's freaking crazy that yo u're having to deal with that, and I'm so sorry that's going on."
I typically exist on Team See Something, Say Something, and I don't just apply it to criminal matters. It goes for shitty personing of all kinds. I figure, how are people going to learn their behavior sucks if nobody tells them their behavior sucks?
posted by The Almighty Mommy Goddess at 7:36 AM on April 7, 2019 [1 favorite]
You and I sound alike. I have learned not to share unhappiness with most people because they respond in that way. They are good people, but not empathetic in the ways I want. You have to be selective when you need empathy.
It's also possible that people might believe you have enough privilege in your life that your problems are not significant compared to so many others who are really suffering.
posted by conrad53 at 11:03 AM on April 7, 2019 [1 favorite]
It's also possible that people might believe you have enough privilege in your life that your problems are not significant compared to so many others who are really suffering.
posted by conrad53 at 11:03 AM on April 7, 2019 [1 favorite]
Dealing with it externally: Smile.
Dealing with it internally: The fact that this has started happening recently, after a significant level of loss and stress on you, is not trivial. Often we become vulnerable, sensitive and raw. It is not uncommon to get annoyed or more at mundane/chatty remarks after such life events. I have personally found it best to avoid the triggers at such times, and re-evaluated what and who I want around me in social and professional life. I just don't entertain idiots or give them the opportunity to hang around without rhyme or reason. This is not the same as being rude or anti-social, its about choice and how much mental headspace and time one wants to devote to such things. You can be very polite while you do it. I just try to tune down the noise as and when possible. If I can't and its affected me mentally then I need to do something nice for myself to compensate for it (long, strenuous walks are always helpful, for instance, or some alone time where I won't be interrupted).
When you are less sensitive or annoyed, remember: "everything that irritates us about others can lead us to a better understanding of ourselves". Same is true for things, statements, anything in the external environment. Not only does it seem that one is expecting a certain kind of response from people (does the world work as per anyone's wishes? If these people are being stupid, is it really worth your mental well being to correct them? How many such people would you have to educate to get your peace of mind? Secondly, what is the point of asking other people if they don't get to respond in their own way?) but one is also presuming intent, which is an unnecessary burden inflicted on you by you. Be nice to yourself and stay away from these people/topics when you are more sensitive.
posted by xm at 4:46 AM on April 11, 2019
Dealing with it internally: The fact that this has started happening recently, after a significant level of loss and stress on you, is not trivial. Often we become vulnerable, sensitive and raw. It is not uncommon to get annoyed or more at mundane/chatty remarks after such life events. I have personally found it best to avoid the triggers at such times, and re-evaluated what and who I want around me in social and professional life. I just don't entertain idiots or give them the opportunity to hang around without rhyme or reason. This is not the same as being rude or anti-social, its about choice and how much mental headspace and time one wants to devote to such things. You can be very polite while you do it. I just try to tune down the noise as and when possible. If I can't and its affected me mentally then I need to do something nice for myself to compensate for it (long, strenuous walks are always helpful, for instance, or some alone time where I won't be interrupted).
When you are less sensitive or annoyed, remember: "everything that irritates us about others can lead us to a better understanding of ourselves". Same is true for things, statements, anything in the external environment. Not only does it seem that one is expecting a certain kind of response from people (does the world work as per anyone's wishes? If these people are being stupid, is it really worth your mental well being to correct them? How many such people would you have to educate to get your peace of mind? Secondly, what is the point of asking other people if they don't get to respond in their own way?) but one is also presuming intent, which is an unnecessary burden inflicted on you by you. Be nice to yourself and stay away from these people/topics when you are more sensitive.
posted by xm at 4:46 AM on April 11, 2019
Response by poster: Hi all, a belated thanks for your thoughtful responses. I was hesitant to mark any as "best answer" because I felt that each one had some sort of helpful and/or thoughtful point, but I did call out some of the answers that specifically resonated with me. Cheers and may we all find the support we need.
posted by rogerroger at 4:22 PM on April 28, 2019
posted by rogerroger at 4:22 PM on April 28, 2019
Response by poster: Also, I checked out "Bright Sided" from the library and am looking forward to reading it!
posted by rogerroger at 4:23 PM on April 28, 2019
posted by rogerroger at 4:23 PM on April 28, 2019
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I'm with you, I find this dismissive and annoying and invalidating as well (although not as bad as "everything happens for the best" which makes me absolutely homicidal.) But try to hear it as "I'm trying to help you feel better", if you can.
posted by fingersandtoes at 12:00 PM on April 6, 2019 [21 favorites]