I know it's none of my business, but...my sister-in-law is mean!

December 2, 2018 12:12 PM

I idolise my older brother. He's a great person – kind, responsible, thoughtful, reliable, consistent, etc. I also love his wife. There's only one problem; she snipes at him really badly every day, and I can't bear to watch her be so consistently horrible to him. .

It doesn't happen all the time. My brother and his wife are newlyweds (they've been together about 5 years) and she's 4 months pregnant so I wonder if hormones are a huge part of the problem here; she has also had a terrible year with issues with recurrent miscarriage. I know things have been incredibly hard for both of them.

I hang out with them a lot and last night she was just sniping about him about basic household things, and her tone was short, sharp and mean and he was so patient and kind with her. I've heard her do it before plenty of times, and he told me, when I asked, that she's been like that *every single evening* for the past few months. I understand she is still processing the grief of her miscarriages and the past few months have been extraordinarily stressful for her, but they've been stressful for my brother, too. And he just accepts her meanness and moodiness, chalks it up to hormones, and as far as I can see is infinitely patient with her.

She's otherwise usually pretty awesome and thoughtful and sensitive and kind, and I am actually a big fan of hers. But this side of her personality scares me; I don't want them to get stuck in this dynamic where she pushes my brother around and is mean to him, and he just complies and never says anything about how upsetting it is – he told me he just holds it in when she upsets him. Especially as once they have a kid, it'd only get worse. I stuck my nose in and told him today that he needs to put his foot down, and tell her it makes him unhappy that she talks to him like that. He said she would react poorly, but I replied that in that case, the dynamic would continue and worsen, and this is a lifetime of this tiptoeing around his angry wife he's potentially signed up for, so they should nip it in the bud now. I even suggested counselling so she can better self-soothe rather than get angry at him, but I think he'd be reluctant to do that (and she would, too, I suspect).

I know it's not my business, but how can I suggest ways of her defusing her anger and irritability so that she doesn't be mean to my brother every single day? Please don't tell me to butt out of it – I have – but I probably will have another word with my brother in a few months' time about it, and I'd like to have something constructive to say. I want him (and both of them) to be happier, especially given that they have their first baby coming along and that's going to be hard enough as it is. Thank you for all thoughts!

posted by considerthelilies to Human Relations (21 answers total)

she's 4 months pregnant so I wonder if hormones are a huge part of the problem here... he told me, when I asked, that she's been like that *every single evening* for the past few months.

It's hormones. Please back off this completely. She's not being mean to your brother; she's being driven insane by hormones.

I stuck my nose in and told him today that he needs to put his foot down, and tell her it makes him unhappy that she talks to him like that. He said she would react poorly, but I replied that in that case, the dynamic would continue and worsen, and this is a lifetime of this tiptoeing around his angry wife he's potentially signed up for, so they should nip it in the bud now.

This is... something you are making up all by yourself.

I even suggested counselling so she can better self-soothe rather than get angry at him, but I think he'd be reluctant to do that (and she would, too, I suspect).

This is so wildly inappropriate I can't even string together words. The only thing that should happen here is that you should apologise to your brother for not minding your own business and for catastrophising temporary, transient behaviour entirely within the range of normal.

Pregnancy is so, so tough; give your sister-in-law and your brother your support, empathy and kindness.
posted by DarlingBri at 12:22 PM on December 2, 2018 [68 favorites]

You are so lucky to be treated as close enough family to see them at their realest. It's an honour to see how people act when in private, not in public. I can see that you are close to your brother, so feel strongly about things. However, remember that you are still an outsider to to their inside lives, you don't see everything. Maybe there are tender moments where she apologises for being a hormone-driven snippy person.

It's great that you want to help. I can see you suggesting the Ask-me standbys of counselling and boundaries- good things! However these things are better suggestions when the asker is looking for advice (in this case your brother) rather than not.

It's also great that you have already butted-out. Remember that sleep deprivation is a horrible thing- and something that your brother and sister-in-law are in for with a new bub. A conversation in a couple of months time probably won't be well received!

So, what can you do? You can listen. You can wait. You can help out and try to ease the burdens. These people have been together for 5 years already- they aren't really newly-weds in the sense of learning who each other is for the first time, nor are they establishing good relationship habits. It's OK to wait a little longer to see what happens.
posted by freethefeet at 12:32 PM on December 2, 2018 [7 favorites]

Constructive things you can say to your brother:

"Is there anything I can do to help?"
"That sounds really tough"
"Mmmm-hmm"
"How are you feeling?"
"I've got your back"

Things you can say that are unlikely to help this situation:

"You should..."
"It's important that you..."
"If you don't...."
"I think you need to..."
"I want you to..."
posted by bimbam at 12:32 PM on December 2, 2018 [61 favorites]

Hormones are absolutely at play, but more importantly - you don't have the whole picture. Maybe your brother does suck at household stuff and your SIL is getting increasingly worried than the quadrupling of household tasks that is going to come raining down on them in a few months are going to SUCK even more. Also, as I'm sure lots of people here can attest, there is so much stuff that a household needs to do and sometimes men are really bad at it. Sure, maybe he takes out the garbage, but is he making sure to make polite conversation with the elderly neighbor cuz it is important to have good relations, especially when you will soon need to replace the fence? Sure he fills the car with gas, but is he remembering to send a birthday card to an aunt? Probably not. And your SIL is probably realizing the imbalance.

The issue here isn't that your SIL is mean, it is that, in your observation, your brother and your SIL aren't communicating well about household tasks, and as mentioned above, this is going to become far more critical very soon.

I would strongly recommend that you give a kind "pre-baby gift" to both of them of the book "How Not to Hate Your Husband After Kids" - I reviewed this here a few years ago. It is a really nice book which I now give to all pregnant friends. Have both of them read it.
posted by k8t at 12:39 PM on December 2, 2018 [10 favorites]

In my experience, the first months of pregnancy after miscarriage are miserable. Grief is bad enough, regular old pregnancy hormones are bad enough, but one is also in a state of suspended grief about one's current pregnancy, which might yet end in miscarriage/stillbirth. Particularly when, as is the case here due to timing, the growing baby is only possible because one or more previous babies were lost. Yes, your brother is having a hard time too. Yes, he lost his other babies too. But it's not the same as for the person who was growing them and is now nurturing this one, and right now she is in the center "comfort in/dump out" circle. Next is your brother as a very close second, and somewhere way after that is you as support staff. But right now, you're dumping on him about your own assumptions and worries, not supporting him, and that's the opposite of the way things are supposed to flow. Do what bimbam says.

PS: Also, please don't call this their "first baby" unless that's the language they themselves use. Many, many people count miscarriages in that total, particularly prior to a live birth.
posted by teremala at 12:52 PM on December 2, 2018 [46 favorites]

As you say, your brother has been dealing with grief and stress in recent months too. So he doesn't need his sibling coming around telling him he's doing his marriage all wrong. You are just another unhappy person griping at him. Stop it.
posted by ThatCanadianGirl at 1:02 PM on December 2, 2018 [11 favorites]

As an anecdote of 1, I was horrible to my husband in the weeks before I found out I was pregnant. The meanest and most distant I’d ever been. Hormones are wack. The fears going on are so real. I think your brother might be doing great and he does know her better than you. They might need a little more space and a little more “let it slide” from their loved ones during this time.
posted by amanda at 1:09 PM on December 2, 2018 [3 favorites]

I think that it’s fine that you said your piece but that’s as much as you should actively do now. Just continue to be there for both of them and supportive of whatever they choose to do and that will make you a great sibling.
posted by bleep at 1:09 PM on December 2, 2018 [1 favorite]

It’s understandable to want to take steps to make your loved ones happier but in this case there literally are none.
posted by bleep at 1:13 PM on December 2, 2018 [2 favorites]

Hello, 6 months pregnant here, and even without fertility issues, hormones are so awful. The first few months of pregnancy are just awful. Mind your own business, please. She's probably got more than enough on her plate without you coming in and telling her she's being a jerk. SHE PROBABLY KNOWS THIS ALREADY.
posted by ancient star at 1:46 PM on December 2, 2018 [6 favorites]

When my brother's ex-girlfriend talked to him like this, it bothered us but it didn't really help to say anything to him. In truth, we couldn't stand his girlfriend but he needed to figure out that there was a problem and deal with it for himself. I understand your position, but this isn't something you can help with. You brought it up once, so that's really enough. If she starts making things awkward or creates a scene when you're there, by all means, try to diffuse - "hey guys, no need for anyone to get upset, we'll figure this out" - but I don't think you can pull either one of them aside and attempt to change this dynamic directly.
posted by AppleTurnover at 1:54 PM on December 2, 2018 [3 favorites]

I read somewhere that the best thing to do if you suspect someone is in an abusive relationship is to be loving and supportive and available, but do not give unasked for advice. Because the more you try to warn them and tell them how to live their life the more they will dig their heels in and do the opposite of what you say.(Actually that's true of all unsolicited advice). It may also give the abusive partner ammunition to use when driving a wedge between the abused and their support network.

This is how I have handled speaking to my sister about her husband. She knows I don't think he treats her well. But I said my piece once, and I haven't spoken about it since. I just make sure to keep in communication and let her know I'm here for her for anything.

This sounds more like hormones than abuse to me. And anyway, your brother knows how you feel about this. Bringing it up again is not going to help.
posted by rakaidan at 1:58 PM on December 2, 2018 [1 favorite]

This is not "how things will be for the rest of their life." This is definitely an exceptional time. Consider that she might be constantly nauseous. (Even though I wasn't ever nauseous enough to throw up, food was so fraught. I'd be so hungry, eat, and then deeply regret whatever it was.) Also, she might be constantly worrying. A lot of the "the baby is growing okay" reassurances that come during pregnancy come on the later side, like at the 18-22 week ultrasound. And even if that comes back perfectly, things can still happen.

I think the most that you could do, the absolute most, is to speak for yourself when you hear this. Along the lines of "ouch, I don't like to hear namecalling."

But really, this is a time for forbearance. Especially because "she's otherwise usually pretty awesome and thoughtful and sensitive and kind." If this is still going on two or three years from now, you can give your brother the speech about long term patterns then.
posted by slidell at 2:02 PM on December 2, 2018 [3 favorites]

Is it possible that you missed times #1-99 of her asking him nicely to please take his muddy boots off at the front door because she's very tired of cleaning it up. And you were there for time #100 where she finally snapped? (Not that I'm projecting or anything....)
posted by Green Eyed Monster at 2:12 PM on December 2, 2018 [15 favorites]

She's only 4 months pregnant and SHE MUST BE SO WORRIED AND SCARED. And she probably will be this scared until the baby is viable though I'm not sure how many weeks that is these days. And even after that she still has a lot to worry about with regards to the baby's health and her health.

When she sounds particularly snippy it might be a nice thing to say, 'Oh Jane, you sound awfully stressed, is there anything at all I can do for you right now that you'd like?'

And then, if she feels snippy enough to say something like, 'Yes, there is, go away,' absolutely don't take it personally and do what she asked and bear no resentment whatsoever and don't express any either. Ever. She is having a really tough time and she needs people to support her and understand that what she's going through is making her behave uncharacteristically.
posted by glasseyes at 2:20 PM on December 2, 2018 [18 favorites]

Early pregnancy was honestly just such a mindfuck which I think can be hard to see from the outside. This is even without the added miscarriage which I've been fortunate to not experience. I often say that the first trimester of pregnancy was by far the worst, and I would include the actual childbirth in that. From the outside, barely anything has changed, but your body definitely has. You're suddenly carrying this alien invader and your body can react... violently. I vomited at least once a day even with meds. I was so nauseated that I dropped to my lowest ever adult weight. I was so tired that many nights I collapsed in exhaustion around 7 pm. I joked that if I felt the way I felt most days of the first trimester I would definitely have taken the day off - but because I felt that way for months on end I just had to carry on.

All of the above is to say, call it hormones, call it whatever, but there's almost certainly more going on than you realize. I didn't go around talking about how I felt with everyone - first because we weren't telling yet, and later because honestly it's boring to hear about someone's constant nausea when they just want to congratulate you on the impending arrival. And that's without even considering the physical and mental toll of the miscarriage, which also falls disproportionately on the mother. Not to minimize what your brother went through, but I think for my husband the baby didn't feel real until he could see my bump and feel the baby kick, whereas for me it felt all too real many months earlier, and I understand that many non child-bearing parents are similar.

So cut your SIL a lot of slack, and encourage your brother to cut her a lot of slack too. A few months of grumpiness, particularly pregnant grumpiness, isn't a good indicator of how the rest of their marriage will go, especially if your brother steps it up and really supports her.
posted by peacheater at 2:23 PM on December 2, 2018 [6 favorites]

It’s not that hormones make you mean, it’s that pregnancy hormones make you tired and stressed and nauseated and jittery and bloated and sore and terrified and cautious and hungry and constipated and crampy and miserable. Sometimes only some of those things, sometimes all of them at once.

If this continues way into the future, sure, support your brother and make sure he knows you love him and are in his corner. Month four of a pregnancy post miscarriages? Have some compassion for your SIL.
posted by lydhre at 2:29 PM on December 2, 2018 [5 favorites]

I felt relatively okay at the beginning of my pregnancy but still I felt very anxious at the time. And I never miscarried - it was just stressful and uncomfortable and I didn’t want to tell people but I felt like I couldn’t not tell people why I felt tired and sick all the time. And as close as I am to my husband, he couldn’t understand what I was going through.

You’ve known her for years and think she’s awesome? Then you know this isn’t her. Cut her some slack.
posted by kat518 at 4:42 PM on December 2, 2018 [2 favorites]

My sister and I used to really be upset with how my sister-in-law talked to my brother--nagging, bossy & such. My brother is a great guy, too--nice, helpful, friendly to all--so it did upset us. Then we realized he didn't even hear it--he had grown up with two older sisters and a mother who endlessly told him what do do, how to behave, nagged, & all that. He didn't even hear his wife (no doubt causing part of her nagging) because after years of listening to us, it was background noise and rolled off like water off a duck's back. And if it did sink in, he just told her, OK, enough, worked out whatever she was talking about, and they moved on. We are all happier now that we have seen the light, as it were. She is bossy, though:-)

Unless you live with them and see this all the time, remember you are arriving in the 7th inning--you don't know what happened before her current reaction. Maybe he didn't take out the trash or whatever. You've said your piece, now step back.
posted by Nosey Mrs. Rat at 4:43 PM on December 2, 2018 [2 favorites]

told him today that he needs to put his foot down, and tell her it makes him unhappy that she talks to him like that.

but this is exactly what she's doing to him: putting her foot down and telling him it makes her unhappy the way he handles (doesn't handle?) basic household things. you don't sound like you approve of this forthright approach when it comes from her.

just practically, if you value all the time you spend with them as a couple, don't try to manage her through him. it will be apparent to her that it's happening, however tactful and covert you try to be. that is not a good way to keep an open invitation to hang out at her place.

and if he is the saintly husband you describe, he will A. not tell you if there are extenuating circumstances explaining her moods, because he will protect his wife's privacy, and B. he will take her side against you if you force it to a point where lines must be drawn and sides must be taken.
posted by queenofbithynia at 10:10 PM on December 2, 2018 [9 favorites]

Oh god. The one AskMe topic I'm truly qualified to address. *Pulls up a chair and sits down.*

Look, if you've never personally experienced **multiple** miscarriages, you cannot possibly fathom how much the whole situation fucks with your entire life. It is not current pregnancy hormones; it is unresolved grief for each of those pregnancies, unresolved grief of letting your partner down (even though you know logically that it wasn't your fault) and sheer terror of losing the current pregnancy. That terror is all you think about, all day, and all night. It is, quite literally, PTSD.

Most people don't know the full details of your journey and they want to be bubbly and happy with you over your pregnancy and in your head you're screaming "I am terrified right now!! I don't have the emotional capacity to be bubbly and happy!!" But you still try to be, because you're supposed to be and people actually get angry with you if you're not acting right, which is, not according to their uninformed expectations, and you come home from an emotionally (and at 4mos physically) exhausting day and you snipe at your partner.

I know you mean well but please back out of this entirely. Your brother knows what he is doing and it sounds like he is handling the situation remarkably well (comfort in, dump out). If you know your SIL to be a lovely person then continue to trust that she is still a lovely person who is unspeakably overwhelmed right now. She knows she's sniping and doubtless that's not the person she wants to be. But you can't just insist that she snap out if it. Trauma doesn't work that way.

I agree that some counseling may be in order but it is not something that *you* can insist on. This is their journey. The best you can do is continue to support your brother, support them as a couple, keep your mouth shut, and if you can't, avoid being in SIL's presence for a little while.
posted by vignettist at 10:23 PM on December 2, 2018 [30 favorites]