How to handle dating (with anxious attachment)?
May 27, 2018 8:25 AM Subscribe
I have a pattern in dating of getting attached early, and then of getting rejected. Each time, I feel devastated and have less motivation to keep going. My anxious attachment style means that I don't deal with the early ambiguous stages of dating well (when I really like someone). Looking for ideas for folks who have experience on how to not take things so personally when rejection comes. And also, on how to approach dating from the beginning with a looser outlook so not every perceived slight sends me into an anxious tailspin.
I am in therapy, and I have the book "Attached" (and have read it; it's helpful).
I suppose what I am looking for is accounts from people who have dealt with this, on how they have dealt with it. I have a pattern of meeting people who seem avoidant, getting attached quickly, getting anxious because they are avoidant, and then getting dumped quickly after the first hint of intimacy.
I'm not a bad person, I get along with others pretty easily in most circumstances, I have friends, am not bad-looking...but I continuously have had this issue. I'm 39 and have never had a relationship lasting longer than 4 months. (there have also been years of not trying; I get hurt and burnt out and take long breaks from dating).
One thing suggested by the "Attached" book for those with anxious attachment is to date multiple people in the beginning so as not to get too attached to one person. Anyone who is sensitive and anxious have that experience? Or other things that have worked?
I am in therapy, and I have the book "Attached" (and have read it; it's helpful).
I suppose what I am looking for is accounts from people who have dealt with this, on how they have dealt with it. I have a pattern of meeting people who seem avoidant, getting attached quickly, getting anxious because they are avoidant, and then getting dumped quickly after the first hint of intimacy.
I'm not a bad person, I get along with others pretty easily in most circumstances, I have friends, am not bad-looking...but I continuously have had this issue. I'm 39 and have never had a relationship lasting longer than 4 months. (there have also been years of not trying; I get hurt and burnt out and take long breaks from dating).
One thing suggested by the "Attached" book for those with anxious attachment is to date multiple people in the beginning so as not to get too attached to one person. Anyone who is sensitive and anxious have that experience? Or other things that have worked?
Best answer: I wonder if you would be more comfortable dating someone who you're already friends with.
Another idea is that you could be the one to dump the avoidant people. That way, you'd get out of those situations faster, leaving you more time to find a partner with a secure or anxious attachment style. If you're comfortable with it, you can try talking to them first, but if you don't think that they'd be receptive, or if they still don't try to meet your needs, you have just as much power to end it.
I'm someone with an anxious attachment style. I can relate to you and have a lot of sympathy for you. What has helped me deal with it has been bailing quicker when I realize that someone is avoidant, as mentioned above, and getting busier/finding my passions. I know that the second sounds so cliche, but it has made a difference in my life. I blog, volunteer, take classes for fun, and I just started a Meetup to help people with social skills. Learning new things and doing my best to help others helps me maintain my sense of self worth when others reject me or are more distant than I'd like them to be. Being engaged with life itself admittedly doesn't replace human companionship, but I think that it helps cushion the blows when said companionship goes awry, and it distracts me somewhat from constantly checking for messages, etc, though I probably still do it too much. Lol.
I might date multiple people for a little while if it happened to work out that way, but I wouldn't go out of my way to make that happen. Right now, I'm just communicating with one person on a dating site. Despite my anxiety, I've been doing okay without having other irons in the fire at the moment.
posted by Social Science Nerd at 8:47 AM on May 27, 2018 [3 favorites]
Another idea is that you could be the one to dump the avoidant people. That way, you'd get out of those situations faster, leaving you more time to find a partner with a secure or anxious attachment style. If you're comfortable with it, you can try talking to them first, but if you don't think that they'd be receptive, or if they still don't try to meet your needs, you have just as much power to end it.
I'm someone with an anxious attachment style. I can relate to you and have a lot of sympathy for you. What has helped me deal with it has been bailing quicker when I realize that someone is avoidant, as mentioned above, and getting busier/finding my passions. I know that the second sounds so cliche, but it has made a difference in my life. I blog, volunteer, take classes for fun, and I just started a Meetup to help people with social skills. Learning new things and doing my best to help others helps me maintain my sense of self worth when others reject me or are more distant than I'd like them to be. Being engaged with life itself admittedly doesn't replace human companionship, but I think that it helps cushion the blows when said companionship goes awry, and it distracts me somewhat from constantly checking for messages, etc, though I probably still do it too much. Lol.
I might date multiple people for a little while if it happened to work out that way, but I wouldn't go out of my way to make that happen. Right now, I'm just communicating with one person on a dating site. Despite my anxiety, I've been doing okay without having other irons in the fire at the moment.
posted by Social Science Nerd at 8:47 AM on May 27, 2018 [3 favorites]
Best answer: The thing that's helped most for me with this is putting a lot more energy into friendships, so that I'm less reliant on dates and partners to meet all of my needs for companionship, care, affirmation, and intimacy.
Friendships can also (but not necessarily!) be a lower-stakes, less-fraught way of accessing care, so they don't twig my attachment stuff as much, but still meet my needs."
One essay that really helped shift my thinking on this was Dean Spade's "For Lovers and Fighters":
"This gets to another central point for me. One of the things I see myself doing in thinking about this stuff is examining how lots of people I know are really awesome, but then show their worst side, their worst behavior, to the person they date. To that person, they will be overly needy or dependent, or dominating, or possessive, or jealous, or mean, or disrespectful, or thoughtless. I have seen that tendency in myself as well. It makes sense. So much insecurity surrounds the romance myth and the world of shame in which sexuality is couched in our culture, we can become our monstrous selves in those relationships. I also see people prioritizing romantic relationships over all else—ditching their friends, putting all their emotional eggs in one basket, and creating unhealthy dynamics with the people they date because of it. It becomes simultaneously the most important relationship, and the one where people act out their most insecure selves.
"One of my goals in thinking about redefining the way we view relationships is to try to treat the people I date more like I treat my friends—try to be respectful and thoughtful and have boundaries and reasonable expectations—and to try to treat my friends more like my dates—to give them special attention, honor my commitments to them, be consistent, and invest deeply in our futures together. In the queer communities I’m in valuing friendship is a really big deal, often coming out of the fact that lots of us don’t have family support, and build deep supportive structures with other queers. We are interested in resisting the heteronormative family structure in which people are expected to form a dyad, marry, have kids, and get all their needs met within that family structure. A lot of us see that as unhealthy, as a new technology of post-industrial late capitalism that is connected to alienating people from community and training them to think in terms of individuality, to value the smaller unit of the nuclear family rather than the extended family. Thus, questioning how the status and accompanying behavior norms are different for how we treat our friends versus our dates, and trying to bring those into balance, starts to support our work of creating chosen families and resisting the annihilation of community that capitalism seeks. "
posted by ITheCosmos at 9:17 AM on May 27, 2018 [36 favorites]
Friendships can also (but not necessarily!) be a lower-stakes, less-fraught way of accessing care, so they don't twig my attachment stuff as much, but still meet my needs."
One essay that really helped shift my thinking on this was Dean Spade's "For Lovers and Fighters":
"This gets to another central point for me. One of the things I see myself doing in thinking about this stuff is examining how lots of people I know are really awesome, but then show their worst side, their worst behavior, to the person they date. To that person, they will be overly needy or dependent, or dominating, or possessive, or jealous, or mean, or disrespectful, or thoughtless. I have seen that tendency in myself as well. It makes sense. So much insecurity surrounds the romance myth and the world of shame in which sexuality is couched in our culture, we can become our monstrous selves in those relationships. I also see people prioritizing romantic relationships over all else—ditching their friends, putting all their emotional eggs in one basket, and creating unhealthy dynamics with the people they date because of it. It becomes simultaneously the most important relationship, and the one where people act out their most insecure selves.
"One of my goals in thinking about redefining the way we view relationships is to try to treat the people I date more like I treat my friends—try to be respectful and thoughtful and have boundaries and reasonable expectations—and to try to treat my friends more like my dates—to give them special attention, honor my commitments to them, be consistent, and invest deeply in our futures together. In the queer communities I’m in valuing friendship is a really big deal, often coming out of the fact that lots of us don’t have family support, and build deep supportive structures with other queers. We are interested in resisting the heteronormative family structure in which people are expected to form a dyad, marry, have kids, and get all their needs met within that family structure. A lot of us see that as unhealthy, as a new technology of post-industrial late capitalism that is connected to alienating people from community and training them to think in terms of individuality, to value the smaller unit of the nuclear family rather than the extended family. Thus, questioning how the status and accompanying behavior norms are different for how we treat our friends versus our dates, and trying to bring those into balance, starts to support our work of creating chosen families and resisting the annihilation of community that capitalism seeks. "
posted by ITheCosmos at 9:17 AM on May 27, 2018 [36 favorites]
Best answer: If you're read Attached, I can't advise you any better and I don't date so I don't have experiences of my own to help you with (not that mine would). But I will remind you that the book says that you will find FAR MORE avoidants out in the dating pool than anyone else because they are always going back in, and avoidants like the anxious best of all until they get sick of you/freak out, and non-avoidants are rarely in the pool and are snapped up fast.
So....(a) you need to work hard at NOT attaching to folks you date. Maybe just keep reminding yourself that this one is highly likely to be avoidant? That they're going to be easy come, easy go? Think of them as disposable? Also maybe ask about their relationship histories: Did they just get out of a long term (like years long) relationship? Then maybe that one you can hope about.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:42 AM on May 27, 2018 [7 favorites]
So....(a) you need to work hard at NOT attaching to folks you date. Maybe just keep reminding yourself that this one is highly likely to be avoidant? That they're going to be easy come, easy go? Think of them as disposable? Also maybe ask about their relationship histories: Did they just get out of a long term (like years long) relationship? Then maybe that one you can hope about.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:42 AM on May 27, 2018 [7 favorites]
Best answer: Two things:
In the early stages of dating, before any exclusive relationship, date multiple people. Don't put all your eggs in one basket, so to speak.
Decide in advance how much of this avoidant behavior you are going to put up with, and once someone has crossed this line you should dump them. This will feel really awful to you the first time you do it, but in the end you will feel a lot better about yourself than if you tried to keep wondering what was going on with the avoidant person.
posted by yohko at 11:38 AM on May 27, 2018 [1 favorite]
In the early stages of dating, before any exclusive relationship, date multiple people. Don't put all your eggs in one basket, so to speak.
Decide in advance how much of this avoidant behavior you are going to put up with, and once someone has crossed this line you should dump them. This will feel really awful to you the first time you do it, but in the end you will feel a lot better about yourself than if you tried to keep wondering what was going on with the avoidant person.
posted by yohko at 11:38 AM on May 27, 2018 [1 favorite]
One thing suggested by the "Attached" book for those with anxious attachment is to date multiple people in the beginning so as not to get too attached to one person.
Don't do this. In most cases a woman with an anxious attachment style who's even talking to multiple people while seeing one ambiguous acting interest in order to mitgate her anxiety in an attempt to not sabotage the beginning stages of a relationship, is and will be every bit likely be viewed as some type of avodaint/game playing/promiscuous/uninvested/uncommited/_insert derogagory gendered insult here_, by some of the people who she's trying not to sabotage things with by doing so.
I mean it's just as likely to backfire on you as it is to work, either way you'll still have anxiety, and the overwhelming majority of people out there will still demonize you for it.
posted by OnefortheLast at 11:51 AM on May 27, 2018
Don't do this. In most cases a woman with an anxious attachment style who's even talking to multiple people while seeing one ambiguous acting interest in order to mitgate her anxiety in an attempt to not sabotage the beginning stages of a relationship, is and will be every bit likely be viewed as some type of avodaint/game playing/promiscuous/uninvested/uncommited/_insert derogagory gendered insult here_, by some of the people who she's trying not to sabotage things with by doing so.
I mean it's just as likely to backfire on you as it is to work, either way you'll still have anxiety, and the overwhelming majority of people out there will still demonize you for it.
posted by OnefortheLast at 11:51 AM on May 27, 2018
Best answer: Nthing the advice to date multiple people. When I was single and ready to date (i.e., loved my life, didn't care if I met anyone or not), I just lined up easy dates one after the other with lots of different kinds of people. When I was on OKC, I also 'reverse sorted' according to match and lined up dates with some 10% matches. Thirdly, I also started dating people with whom the conversation of long-term committed relationship would probably never arise for either of us (i.e., much younger guys, established couples, & poly).
All this gaming the system with lots of people who were unlikely matches made it really easy for me to leapfrog any anxiety about attachment and go right to a logical conversation about whether I liked being with this person and wanted to spend more time with them. I met some unexpected gems and unexpected duds, but it forced me to keep an open mind and heart. It also became really easy to walk away from bad dates and people where there wasn't some mutual benefit for each other. Because I'd added so much noise to the system, it disrupted my habitual responses to the system.
Amid all this dating, I ended up dating and falling in love with a long-ago friend of mine. It was really easy for me to assess it pragmatically, have frank conversations about the relationship itself, and to enter into it healthily. This route doesn't eliminate all the anxiety, because it's part of the price of entry for being a human who's romantically drawn to someone else. But it was waaaaaaay easier.
One woman's approach.
posted by cocoagirl at 11:55 AM on May 27, 2018 [7 favorites]
All this gaming the system with lots of people who were unlikely matches made it really easy for me to leapfrog any anxiety about attachment and go right to a logical conversation about whether I liked being with this person and wanted to spend more time with them. I met some unexpected gems and unexpected duds, but it forced me to keep an open mind and heart. It also became really easy to walk away from bad dates and people where there wasn't some mutual benefit for each other. Because I'd added so much noise to the system, it disrupted my habitual responses to the system.
Amid all this dating, I ended up dating and falling in love with a long-ago friend of mine. It was really easy for me to assess it pragmatically, have frank conversations about the relationship itself, and to enter into it healthily. This route doesn't eliminate all the anxiety, because it's part of the price of entry for being a human who's romantically drawn to someone else. But it was waaaaaaay easier.
One woman's approach.
posted by cocoagirl at 11:55 AM on May 27, 2018 [7 favorites]
I want to (gently) remind people that attachment styles are not set in stone, and they are not intrinsic to who you are. It’s not an orientation, it’s a learned pattern of behavior. You can unlearn it, and learn instead what’s called earned secure attachment (with yourself, first, for most people).
I come at this from the direction of reading about and learning about complex trauma, so that’s my lens. But my understanding of maladaptive attachment styles is that you can change them by working to recover and heal from the original attachment trauma (from minor to major) that taught you a maladaptive style in the first place.
It’s a lot of work, but it’s primarily work you do on yourself, often with a therapist. Not in the context of dating people. Or at least not right away.
posted by schadenfrau at 11:57 AM on May 27, 2018 [15 favorites]
I come at this from the direction of reading about and learning about complex trauma, so that’s my lens. But my understanding of maladaptive attachment styles is that you can change them by working to recover and heal from the original attachment trauma (from minor to major) that taught you a maladaptive style in the first place.
It’s a lot of work, but it’s primarily work you do on yourself, often with a therapist. Not in the context of dating people. Or at least not right away.
posted by schadenfrau at 11:57 AM on May 27, 2018 [15 favorites]
I second schaudenfrau's advice. I had a therapist who worked specifically on inner child and attachment therapy, and now I have a therapist who uses a combination of CBT and DBT. I don't date because I have very little emotional energy to date and I also am demisexual, so there are several barriers to participating in dating structures that I don't feel compelled to deal with. The last time I dated, I was in a severely anxious attachment mode with a severe avoidant.
Working on my attachment trauma and the subsequent traumas afterwards has helped me build security in myself and a deeper understanding of trust and boundaries. I also work hard to practice this with my friends.
posted by yueliang at 2:13 PM on May 27, 2018 [1 favorite]
Working on my attachment trauma and the subsequent traumas afterwards has helped me build security in myself and a deeper understanding of trust and boundaries. I also work hard to practice this with my friends.
posted by yueliang at 2:13 PM on May 27, 2018 [1 favorite]
You fully deserve love, respect and a happy relationship as per you've demonstrated by this ask that you're both seeking and wanting to be an active participant in, however flawed you are because everyone is, without the belief that you don't until you "fix" yourself perfectly. THAT right there, is an anxious minset. You can work on anxious attachment for a year or the rest of your life no guarantees. Do you want a partner who will only love and accept you if you change your past and stay changed throught the future in spite of it? I've wasted years of my life trying to fix myself "good enough" to deserve a healthy happy relationship and I still have yet to find or have one. In fact, the more broken flawed and imperfect I believe myself to be, the worse my relationships have gotten over that time of intensive self work. Find someone who will love and accept, cherish and value you as is, as you are right now. That person will likely be thrilled, proud and supportive if you continue to grow and improve from where you're at right now but won't condemn you if you experience a major life setback or trigger that puts you right back where you started from. Relationships are hard enough as is without seeking to date those who can't and won't date who you are right now.
posted by OnefortheLast at 3:17 PM on May 27, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by OnefortheLast at 3:17 PM on May 27, 2018 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I don’t really subscribe to the attachment types as set in stone either. But I would say I have an anxious style in relationships, and after having a couple bad relationships where I got quickly attached to total losers, I had a lot more success with dating multiple people early on.
I agree that when you are more anxiously attached, it often works better to be with someone really secure. My best friend once called my husband “the least damaged person ever.” Not to say he’s Mr. Perfect, but he is definitely securely attached, not neurotic, and generally in good spirits. Aka my opposite. When I’m feeling insecure and act jealous or clingy (which I’m working on like you’re supposed to, blah blah), he just deflects it with a joke or responds with so much positivity I get stuck in my tracks. Versus my past relationships with avoidant people, who would just reply with some bs like “well if you keep asking if I like you I’m going to stop liking you!” Which obviously didn’t go well. I saw some meme once, something like “do you like me like me, or like me just as a friend” - me, to my husband of 50 years. I honestly think that might be me someday, so I need a partner who can just laugh at that.
But I was only able to break my pattern of meeting a person, quickly and successfully focusing on making them like me despite obvious incompatibilities, and getting anxious trying to keep the “relationship” together, by dating a few people at once. It let me evaluate a little more before getting invested, since I had to spread my attention. And it helped with feeling like I HAD to make one person like me, since there were other people I had in the wings too if one didn’t work out.
I also tried really hard to shift my perspective from “does he like me” to “is this person good enough for me.” I would repeat it in my head like a pep talk to myself. I tried to remind myself (and I’m always trying to encourage heartbroken friends with this) that a relationship ending is not a failure, it’s a success. Your ultimate goal, if you take a step back, isn’t MAKE THIS CRAPPY RELATIONSHIP WORK AT ALL COSTS, or CONVINCE THIS PERSON WHO DOESNT LIKE ME TO STAY WITH ME. Right? It’s something closer to “finding a person I’m compatible with and can be happy with, where we both want to be in the relationship.” So if a relationship ends, it’s a good thing since you weren’t right for each other, and you’re now free to find someone better. “Rejection,” isn’t a failure, it’s a chance for you to find a better match. And someone above seemed to be warning that people will think badly of you if you date multiple people (I couldn’t quite follow their point). Well, if someone rules you out because you’re trying to date in a way that hurts you less, good! That’s not a rejection where you failed, it’s an important piece of information that they’re not right for you.
posted by sometamegazelle at 5:00 PM on May 27, 2018 [14 favorites]
I agree that when you are more anxiously attached, it often works better to be with someone really secure. My best friend once called my husband “the least damaged person ever.” Not to say he’s Mr. Perfect, but he is definitely securely attached, not neurotic, and generally in good spirits. Aka my opposite. When I’m feeling insecure and act jealous or clingy (which I’m working on like you’re supposed to, blah blah), he just deflects it with a joke or responds with so much positivity I get stuck in my tracks. Versus my past relationships with avoidant people, who would just reply with some bs like “well if you keep asking if I like you I’m going to stop liking you!” Which obviously didn’t go well. I saw some meme once, something like “do you like me like me, or like me just as a friend” - me, to my husband of 50 years. I honestly think that might be me someday, so I need a partner who can just laugh at that.
But I was only able to break my pattern of meeting a person, quickly and successfully focusing on making them like me despite obvious incompatibilities, and getting anxious trying to keep the “relationship” together, by dating a few people at once. It let me evaluate a little more before getting invested, since I had to spread my attention. And it helped with feeling like I HAD to make one person like me, since there were other people I had in the wings too if one didn’t work out.
I also tried really hard to shift my perspective from “does he like me” to “is this person good enough for me.” I would repeat it in my head like a pep talk to myself. I tried to remind myself (and I’m always trying to encourage heartbroken friends with this) that a relationship ending is not a failure, it’s a success. Your ultimate goal, if you take a step back, isn’t MAKE THIS CRAPPY RELATIONSHIP WORK AT ALL COSTS, or CONVINCE THIS PERSON WHO DOESNT LIKE ME TO STAY WITH ME. Right? It’s something closer to “finding a person I’m compatible with and can be happy with, where we both want to be in the relationship.” So if a relationship ends, it’s a good thing since you weren’t right for each other, and you’re now free to find someone better. “Rejection,” isn’t a failure, it’s a chance for you to find a better match. And someone above seemed to be warning that people will think badly of you if you date multiple people (I couldn’t quite follow their point). Well, if someone rules you out because you’re trying to date in a way that hurts you less, good! That’s not a rejection where you failed, it’s an important piece of information that they’re not right for you.
posted by sometamegazelle at 5:00 PM on May 27, 2018 [14 favorites]
Response by poster: I want to (gently) remind people that attachment styles are not set in stone, and they are not intrinsic to who you are. I
According to the research of the authors of "Attached", that's not exactly so. They do say that attachment style can change, but also that some tendencies are intrinsic to personality and that some people may become secure but always have a bit of a tendency to be avoidant or anxious.
The authors of that book recommend that anxious or avoidant people date those who are securely attached because this can help them to become more secure.
So while I get your point that I need to work on myself , I don't believe that I need to stop dating entirely to do so. Besides...it can be difficult to learn how to do something when you are not doing it at all.
(sorry to butt it on my own ask. I am really taking a lot from all of these answers. just wanted to chime in on the discussion)
posted by bearette at 5:14 PM on May 27, 2018 [1 favorite]
According to the research of the authors of "Attached", that's not exactly so. They do say that attachment style can change, but also that some tendencies are intrinsic to personality and that some people may become secure but always have a bit of a tendency to be avoidant or anxious.
The authors of that book recommend that anxious or avoidant people date those who are securely attached because this can help them to become more secure.
So while I get your point that I need to work on myself , I don't believe that I need to stop dating entirely to do so. Besides...it can be difficult to learn how to do something when you are not doing it at all.
(sorry to butt it on my own ask. I am really taking a lot from all of these answers. just wanted to chime in on the discussion)
posted by bearette at 5:14 PM on May 27, 2018 [1 favorite]
Again, gently, Attached is a pop science book that mostly cites research from the 1950s. Attachment Disturbances by Brown and Elliot is I think from this year, and the research on childhood attachment trauma and complex trauma treatment that’s been done in the last 10 years or so seems to have led to a watershed change in how this stuff is approached.
No one’s saying you have to stop dating, or even what’s right for your particular situation. But attachment styles are not permanent or intrinsic, they are learned, with everything that implies.
(I have a list of trauma and attachment books if anyone wants to PM for them.)
posted by schadenfrau at 5:28 PM on May 27, 2018 [4 favorites]
No one’s saying you have to stop dating, or even what’s right for your particular situation. But attachment styles are not permanent or intrinsic, they are learned, with everything that implies.
(I have a list of trauma and attachment books if anyone wants to PM for them.)
posted by schadenfrau at 5:28 PM on May 27, 2018 [4 favorites]
Response by poster: Well, the bibliography of research in "Attached" is all post late 1990s, none from the 50's, I just checked. The authors have advanced degrees in psychology and neuroscience. I think the book's point of view is valid.
posted by bearette at 5:57 PM on May 27, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by bearette at 5:57 PM on May 27, 2018 [1 favorite]
Best answer: People above have mentioned, and you have mentioned, dating someone who has a secure attachment style and I really can't stress enough how much it helps. I've been in a number of avoidant relationships, one extremely long term, and it really messes with you as an anxious person. I'm now with someone who is very solid and, while I still have my issues, they've gone down substantially. Like, when a person keeps coming through despite your freakouts, after a while you just have to say "man, I guess this person is actually going to keep coming through. No need to freak out next time."
Another thing that helped me was just being aware of my anxious tendencies and how being in avoidant relationships in the past really exacerbated my issues. Whenever I started having inclinations to text in panic or get immensely sad because I was convinced my boyfriend didn't like me anymore, I consciously decided to wait things out and see what happened. It's really hard. You might struggle. But it gets easier after a while. I got really into baking to distract myself so that if all my anxieties were right at least I'd have a delicious treat waiting for me. No matter what happens with my relationships, at least I'm good at baking now!!
So, in agreement with the advice above, if you're starting to notice the person you're seeing has avoidant tendencies, you should probably just bail. It sucks having to move on from burgeoning chemistry, but it's just better for your mental health in the long run. It's way better being alone than in such an unhealthy dynamic. And yeah, it helps dating multiple people at once to take the pressure off and it also increases the odds of you finding a secure person. From my experience, it feels totally different right from the beginning when you're with a secure person even if your issues are still there. It might even feel uncomfortable - like, shouldn't I have to FIGHT for this person to like me? What's happening? But you don't, and you deserve to not have to fight.
posted by xiasanlan at 7:02 PM on May 27, 2018 [1 favorite]
Another thing that helped me was just being aware of my anxious tendencies and how being in avoidant relationships in the past really exacerbated my issues. Whenever I started having inclinations to text in panic or get immensely sad because I was convinced my boyfriend didn't like me anymore, I consciously decided to wait things out and see what happened. It's really hard. You might struggle. But it gets easier after a while. I got really into baking to distract myself so that if all my anxieties were right at least I'd have a delicious treat waiting for me. No matter what happens with my relationships, at least I'm good at baking now!!
So, in agreement with the advice above, if you're starting to notice the person you're seeing has avoidant tendencies, you should probably just bail. It sucks having to move on from burgeoning chemistry, but it's just better for your mental health in the long run. It's way better being alone than in such an unhealthy dynamic. And yeah, it helps dating multiple people at once to take the pressure off and it also increases the odds of you finding a secure person. From my experience, it feels totally different right from the beginning when you're with a secure person even if your issues are still there. It might even feel uncomfortable - like, shouldn't I have to FIGHT for this person to like me? What's happening? But you don't, and you deserve to not have to fight.
posted by xiasanlan at 7:02 PM on May 27, 2018 [1 favorite]
I want to echo the people who are saying attachment styles aren't set in stone. I think I've mentioned in another thread that in a previous relationship I was extremely anxious. The man I was dating was avoidant, and he made me more anxious, then I made him more avoidant, in a vicious cycle. After getting out of that relationship + therapy + meds for anxiety, I met my husband. I would say I am now the epitome of secure attachment; it isn't just about working on yourself, it is also somewhat dependent on your choice of partner, in my opinion/experience.
posted by thereader at 12:52 AM on May 28, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by thereader at 12:52 AM on May 28, 2018 [4 favorites]
I sometimes think it's worth just being hyper-vigilant about signals of emotional availability or otherwise from the get-go (do they follow up after dates, do they want to see you again, are they *available* – if not, these are red flags) and running far and fast if you spot signs of emotional unavailability.
I know that's hard – there might be stuff in your past (maybe an unconscious pattern) that means you perhaps want these unavailable people the most. Attachment styles can change, I really do believe that – which is why I prefer the term 'emotionally unavailable' to 'avoidant' (though they're not direct synonyms). You can know that in one context you might be anxious, but in another – with someone who IS emotionally available – you could be more secure.
I also suggest therapy and inner child work, for sure. You need to build that up in line with learning to spot and stay away from emotionally unavailable people.
Finally, the Baggage Reclaim blog (especially its archives) might be helpful to you – lots and lots about how to deal with all sorts of dating situations. Good luck!
posted by considerthelilies at 2:35 AM on May 28, 2018 [3 favorites]
I know that's hard – there might be stuff in your past (maybe an unconscious pattern) that means you perhaps want these unavailable people the most. Attachment styles can change, I really do believe that – which is why I prefer the term 'emotionally unavailable' to 'avoidant' (though they're not direct synonyms). You can know that in one context you might be anxious, but in another – with someone who IS emotionally available – you could be more secure.
I also suggest therapy and inner child work, for sure. You need to build that up in line with learning to spot and stay away from emotionally unavailable people.
Finally, the Baggage Reclaim blog (especially its archives) might be helpful to you – lots and lots about how to deal with all sorts of dating situations. Good luck!
posted by considerthelilies at 2:35 AM on May 28, 2018 [3 favorites]
People above have mentioned, and you have mentioned, dating someone who has a secure attachment style
this is probably a good idea in the long term but I'm not sure it makes, or ought to make, much difference in the early weeks through the first month or two. a person with a "secure attachment style" may perhaps be identified that early on by the way they talk about (or just have) friends and family and exes, but they are not going to be attached to you that soon (where "you" is anybody they just met, even if they like you very much.) moving slowly, waiting to commit until they know you well, and tolerating uncertainty early on are all things I think of as signs of security, not avoidance.
one thing that strikes me about attachment rhetoric is people seem to talk almost exclusively about being or becoming attached, without any reference to liking or loving the person they're attached to. being attached to someone you don't know that well and maybe don't like that well is a terrible experience, but how much you like them and why is significantly more important than how attached you feel, in the early months.
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:26 AM on May 28, 2018 [5 favorites]
this is probably a good idea in the long term but I'm not sure it makes, or ought to make, much difference in the early weeks through the first month or two. a person with a "secure attachment style" may perhaps be identified that early on by the way they talk about (or just have) friends and family and exes, but they are not going to be attached to you that soon (where "you" is anybody they just met, even if they like you very much.) moving slowly, waiting to commit until they know you well, and tolerating uncertainty early on are all things I think of as signs of security, not avoidance.
one thing that strikes me about attachment rhetoric is people seem to talk almost exclusively about being or becoming attached, without any reference to liking or loving the person they're attached to. being attached to someone you don't know that well and maybe don't like that well is a terrible experience, but how much you like them and why is significantly more important than how attached you feel, in the early months.
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:26 AM on May 28, 2018 [5 favorites]
I have not read Attached, so I don't want to speak to it specifically, but I have some issues with the language around attachment, namely the values it ascribes to people who don't seek it. There's a real tendency to demonize them as "players", fundamentally dishonest - even as they are telling you quite plainly what their style is.
And I get it, it hurts to get attached and get rejected! But it also hurts to have to push people you love away over and over when you are doing your best to be clear about what you can deliver re: relationships. It's natural to think of people who hurt you as "bad people", but it is also not helpful because it conflates compatibility with goodness.
I'm an avoidant, does it show? I don't think that makes me a bad person, that my reasons for being overly cautious about attachment or my ways of forming relationships are immoral/unethical. But I can't count the number of relationships this (cis mostly straight) lady entered into with all the caveats stated in plain language, in text and in person, no I can't handle full-time commitment, no I won't get into the relationship ladder... just to have the guy feeling completely hurt and baffled when my actions matched my words.
When people tell you who they are, believe them, and if it's not what you're looking for, walk away in good cheer. Neither party has to be "bad", you're just incompatible.
posted by Freyja at 9:55 AM on May 28, 2018 [3 favorites]
And I get it, it hurts to get attached and get rejected! But it also hurts to have to push people you love away over and over when you are doing your best to be clear about what you can deliver re: relationships. It's natural to think of people who hurt you as "bad people", but it is also not helpful because it conflates compatibility with goodness.
I'm an avoidant, does it show? I don't think that makes me a bad person, that my reasons for being overly cautious about attachment or my ways of forming relationships are immoral/unethical. But I can't count the number of relationships this (cis mostly straight) lady entered into with all the caveats stated in plain language, in text and in person, no I can't handle full-time commitment, no I won't get into the relationship ladder... just to have the guy feeling completely hurt and baffled when my actions matched my words.
When people tell you who they are, believe them, and if it's not what you're looking for, walk away in good cheer. Neither party has to be "bad", you're just incompatible.
posted by Freyja at 9:55 AM on May 28, 2018 [3 favorites]
also I understand these are weird terms of art and not intended to line up with the usual meanings of the word, but I think forgetting that leads to people making this artificial dichotomy of anxious vs. avoidant. "anxious attachment" real or not isn't identical to anxiety, the mood disorder. anxiety-anxiety leads to avoidance just as often as it leads to over-closeness or premature attachment.
personally as an extra anxious person I'd rather die than ask for relationship reassurance because anxiety makes me suspect I wouldn't get it. so careful everyone please with generalizing from theoretical attachment styles to personality types or obsession/anxiety more broadly, it doesn't line up like that as a rule even if now and then it does just by coincidence.
posted by queenofbithynia at 11:36 AM on May 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
personally as an extra anxious person I'd rather die than ask for relationship reassurance because anxiety makes me suspect I wouldn't get it. so careful everyone please with generalizing from theoretical attachment styles to personality types or obsession/anxiety more broadly, it doesn't line up like that as a rule even if now and then it does just by coincidence.
posted by queenofbithynia at 11:36 AM on May 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
There's a real tendency to demonize them as "players", fundamentally dishonest - even as they are telling you quite plainly what their style is.
Some folks are honest about how they are not into you for the long term (see below). And some are not. I think the "players" might be more of the folks who are all, "No, I'm looking for The One, but I just haven't found her yet," with their subtext being "the right and perfect person won't bring out the urge to run in me after a few months." (Read "He's Scared, She's Scared" for more on those folks.) That may be legitimately how they feel, that the "perfect person" will make them not want to run. But they're always throwing themselves in whole hog thinking that maybe this time the relationship won't end the way it always does, except it does because they're in denial that they're always going to run.
And I get it, it hurts to get attached and get rejected! But it also hurts to have to push people you love away over and over when you are doing your best to be clear about what you can deliver re: relationships.
True. Unfortunately I think most folks are built to attach one way or another and going into any kind of relationship being all, "This isn't going to last, i just want to boink you for a few months and that's it" doesn't seem to work with human nature in most folks. Oxytocin and the like happens. If you get close enough other than a distant hookup once in a while, feelings are likely to happen.
Here is an example of how well warning a guy ahead of time went.
I'm an avoidant, does it show? I don't think that makes me a bad person, that my reasons for being overly cautious about attachment or my ways of forming relationships are immoral/unethical. But I can't count the number of relationships this (cis mostly straight) lady entered into with all the caveats stated in plain language, in text and in person, no I can't handle full-time commitment, no I won't get into the relationship ladder... just to have the guy feeling completely hurt and baffled when my actions matched my words.
Unfortunately, I just don't think warning someone ahead of time works. It's too easy for humans and the hormones to get "led on." If you give someone even just some attention, they'll cling to any sign of hope for more. Unless avoidants start dating avoidants, which for some strange reason they don't do at all according to Attached, they're not going to find someone else who understands their (lack of?) needs and genuinely won't mind when someone bails after a few months.
I'm avoidant (at this point, I used to be anxious) too. But as an avoidant, you know what I do? I just don't date. I don't put myself out there and then freak and run and repeat that over and over again. If I don't want a relationship or can't handle having one, I don't try to find one. I guess I just don't get why if someone doesn't want a relationship they don't just stay celibate or stick to one night stands. Anything more than that seems to inevitably end in someone's tears. You can fairly warn someone but that doesn't mean they will listen, take heed, and hold back enough for you.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:26 PM on May 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
Some folks are honest about how they are not into you for the long term (see below). And some are not. I think the "players" might be more of the folks who are all, "No, I'm looking for The One, but I just haven't found her yet," with their subtext being "the right and perfect person won't bring out the urge to run in me after a few months." (Read "He's Scared, She's Scared" for more on those folks.) That may be legitimately how they feel, that the "perfect person" will make them not want to run. But they're always throwing themselves in whole hog thinking that maybe this time the relationship won't end the way it always does, except it does because they're in denial that they're always going to run.
And I get it, it hurts to get attached and get rejected! But it also hurts to have to push people you love away over and over when you are doing your best to be clear about what you can deliver re: relationships.
True. Unfortunately I think most folks are built to attach one way or another and going into any kind of relationship being all, "This isn't going to last, i just want to boink you for a few months and that's it" doesn't seem to work with human nature in most folks. Oxytocin and the like happens. If you get close enough other than a distant hookup once in a while, feelings are likely to happen.
Here is an example of how well warning a guy ahead of time went.
I'm an avoidant, does it show? I don't think that makes me a bad person, that my reasons for being overly cautious about attachment or my ways of forming relationships are immoral/unethical. But I can't count the number of relationships this (cis mostly straight) lady entered into with all the caveats stated in plain language, in text and in person, no I can't handle full-time commitment, no I won't get into the relationship ladder... just to have the guy feeling completely hurt and baffled when my actions matched my words.
Unfortunately, I just don't think warning someone ahead of time works. It's too easy for humans and the hormones to get "led on." If you give someone even just some attention, they'll cling to any sign of hope for more. Unless avoidants start dating avoidants, which for some strange reason they don't do at all according to Attached, they're not going to find someone else who understands their (lack of?) needs and genuinely won't mind when someone bails after a few months.
I'm avoidant (at this point, I used to be anxious) too. But as an avoidant, you know what I do? I just don't date. I don't put myself out there and then freak and run and repeat that over and over again. If I don't want a relationship or can't handle having one, I don't try to find one. I guess I just don't get why if someone doesn't want a relationship they don't just stay celibate or stick to one night stands. Anything more than that seems to inevitably end in someone's tears. You can fairly warn someone but that doesn't mean they will listen, take heed, and hold back enough for you.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:26 PM on May 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
I find it very confusing where on one hand, you have good advice coming such as, "trust your gut," read "the gift of fear," and general acknowledgement that we have instincts for good reason. On the other hand, we have very recent western metal health advice that goes against all of this, and people unable examine a cause and effect belief both ways to see which makes more sense.
As in, is your anxiety the cause of relationship and dating failures, is the suppression/rejection of it indeed the solution..
Or,
Are your relationship and dating failures the root of your anxiety, and the rejection of those people who cause It, the solution.
Anxiety can often be our closest indication of a fear based response that's indicative of a person or situation that isn't good for us. It may indeed be one way if your anxiety is ever present and in all relationship and dating situations, or it may actually be the other way if your anxiety only ever presents in situations or with people that eventually lead to failure. I do think a careful consideration and evaluation of the patterns that exist in relation to your anxiety itself would help you determine whether you're actually experiencing intuition, a "gut feeling" , or a legit fear based response. I do believe, and have personally experienced many times myself, that the presence of fear itself presenting as anxiety is and has been generally a very good indication of persons, relationships and situations, to which the fear was later proven very warranted and valid. Having those instincts about someone beforehand isn't necessarily always a bad thing or a medical condition requiring treatment.
posted by OnefortheLast at 4:58 PM on May 29, 2018
As in, is your anxiety the cause of relationship and dating failures, is the suppression/rejection of it indeed the solution..
Or,
Are your relationship and dating failures the root of your anxiety, and the rejection of those people who cause It, the solution.
Anxiety can often be our closest indication of a fear based response that's indicative of a person or situation that isn't good for us. It may indeed be one way if your anxiety is ever present and in all relationship and dating situations, or it may actually be the other way if your anxiety only ever presents in situations or with people that eventually lead to failure. I do think a careful consideration and evaluation of the patterns that exist in relation to your anxiety itself would help you determine whether you're actually experiencing intuition, a "gut feeling" , or a legit fear based response. I do believe, and have personally experienced many times myself, that the presence of fear itself presenting as anxiety is and has been generally a very good indication of persons, relationships and situations, to which the fear was later proven very warranted and valid. Having those instincts about someone beforehand isn't necessarily always a bad thing or a medical condition requiring treatment.
posted by OnefortheLast at 4:58 PM on May 29, 2018
Anxiety can also cause us to have anxiety about having anxiety itself, and to worry that our anxiety or ourselves are the problem, when sometimes those things are not.
Instead, I would ask you, what would you say to a friend or a daughter who came to you and told you they were feeling scared about a man they were seeing. Would you invalidate and negate their fears and ask them to do the same? Or would some part of you be concerned for them?
posted by OnefortheLast at 5:08 PM on May 29, 2018
Instead, I would ask you, what would you say to a friend or a daughter who came to you and told you they were feeling scared about a man they were seeing. Would you invalidate and negate their fears and ask them to do the same? Or would some part of you be concerned for them?
posted by OnefortheLast at 5:08 PM on May 29, 2018
This anti-anxiety mental health craze is very eerily reminiscent of the "hysteria" mental health craze that specifically targeted women only a few generations ago...
posted by OnefortheLast at 5:15 PM on May 29, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by OnefortheLast at 5:15 PM on May 29, 2018 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
For me the thing that stood out in "Attached" was learning to recognize attachment styles of potential partners and dating people with secure attachment. I haven't tried it yet because I haven't been dating, but it's what I plan to do.
I've also recognized that physical intimacy early on really intensifies unhealthy attachment for me so the last time I did date I told the guy, after a few dates, that I didn't want to get physically involved until we knew we were on the same page. Never saw him again and I felt that was a win - I weeded out someone who wasn't looking for what I was looking for and avoided pointless heartbreak.
posted by bunderful at 8:38 AM on May 27, 2018 [15 favorites]