Best pre-divorce advice
June 27, 2017 6:03 AM Subscribe
Divorce survivors: What's the single best piece of pre-divorce advice you received?
Asking as a mid-40s self-employed father of two kids (5 and 8) who's looking at an impending divorce, with limited financial resources and no close friends who have made it through to the other side already.
Looking back, if you could tell your pre-divorce self one thing, what would it be? Emotional or practical advice. Or both.
Asking as a mid-40s self-employed father of two kids (5 and 8) who's looking at an impending divorce, with limited financial resources and no close friends who have made it through to the other side already.
Looking back, if you could tell your pre-divorce self one thing, what would it be? Emotional or practical advice. Or both.
* Hire the BEST lawyer possible. You want a shark. Ask around, get referrals. Even though you may feel now you want everything to be civilized and your wife is a good person who will not try to screw you, everyone NEEDS an excellent lawyer who knows how to best protect you and your kids. A good lawyer will be able to think long-term and plan for all potential problems, starting with where your kids are now to when they've graduated college.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 6:34 AM on June 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 6:34 AM on June 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
I was too hasty to move. Defer permanent decisions on housing until there has been sober second thought.
posted by crazycanuck at 6:52 AM on June 27, 2017
posted by crazycanuck at 6:52 AM on June 27, 2017
Middle-aged woman here, divorced a decade ago when my son was a baby. You need to listen to me carefully, dude: while your divorce doesn't have to be bitter/contentious/complicated, you MUST NOT ASSUME THAT YOUR EX IS YOUR FRIEND, OR THAT YOUR EX WILL NOT TRY TO HARM YOU. Please re-read that. Your relationship with your ex will change in ways you cannot possibly fathom. S/he may be honorable and do the right thing. S/he may surprise you with the depths of his/her pettiness and greed. EITHER WAY, you need to protect yourself and your kids... emotionally, logistically, financially. This doesn't mean that you yourself must do negative/paranoid things. It just means that you NEVER EVER EVER make assumptions based on your ex acting a certain way.
posted by julthumbscrew at 6:53 AM on June 27, 2017 [29 favorites]
posted by julthumbscrew at 6:53 AM on June 27, 2017 [29 favorites]
I strongly second " put the children first." Having gone through a successful divorce when my daughter was 4 years old that is the key. Money, friends, things all unimportant if you damage the children in the process.
We agreed to put the child first and most importantly not to speak ill of the other parent. I had to correct my mom at first and told her she would not have access to the grandkid if she complained about my ex. Our motivation was this..the child believes she is "one-half" of each parent and if you criticize the other parent you are criticizing the child...always keep this in mind.
Also, know that being accommodating will be hard at times, but keep the lines of communication open and don't act like a victim in from of the child. If new spouses come into the picture, figure out what role they will have immediately. In our case, our spouses played a supporting role and let us "raise" the child.
So 20 years later, we are not "besties" but we respect and actually like each other and our child has had four caring adults looking out for her, helping her to feel safe which is what they need. She has tried to play us against each other but did not succeed. She wanted to push the boundaries and see how much she could get away with! Now she is a confident young woman, normal and happy and kind.
posted by drthom at 6:55 AM on June 27, 2017 [14 favorites]
We agreed to put the child first and most importantly not to speak ill of the other parent. I had to correct my mom at first and told her she would not have access to the grandkid if she complained about my ex. Our motivation was this..the child believes she is "one-half" of each parent and if you criticize the other parent you are criticizing the child...always keep this in mind.
Also, know that being accommodating will be hard at times, but keep the lines of communication open and don't act like a victim in from of the child. If new spouses come into the picture, figure out what role they will have immediately. In our case, our spouses played a supporting role and let us "raise" the child.
So 20 years later, we are not "besties" but we respect and actually like each other and our child has had four caring adults looking out for her, helping her to feel safe which is what they need. She has tried to play us against each other but did not succeed. She wanted to push the boundaries and see how much she could get away with! Now she is a confident young woman, normal and happy and kind.
posted by drthom at 6:55 AM on June 27, 2017 [14 favorites]
The best advice I got was "you don't have to do nothing fast". Basically, be extremely thoughtful in all decisions. Haste makes waste.
posted by kate blank at 7:10 AM on June 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by kate blank at 7:10 AM on June 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
Set some boundaries and disconnect from the ex. Distance will give you time to carefully consider how you respond. Get a phone separate from the ex, so the bill comes to you, even if it's just a pay-as-you-go one. Block them on your phone, and on social media. Communicate via email only, in the clearest and politest way that you can, about only practical and vital things like the kids and logistics. If you're in the family home and they aren't, change the locks, and schedule time for the ex to be in the house if that's needed. If you're not in the family home, arrange with the ex when you plan to be there; don't drop in.
Don't make long-term decisions like extended leases, but do make decisions that distance yourself.
Get a good lawyer, and let them help you determine what you want to do. Don't assume the ex will be amicable or friendly. If you can, shut down any joint bills and bank accounts, and keep good records of what's owed and what's an asset.
Then, do new things. Go to new restaurants, new grocery stores, try new foods, go to new parts of the city you don't usually visit. Do that to create new memories.
posted by answergrape at 7:18 AM on June 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
Don't make long-term decisions like extended leases, but do make decisions that distance yourself.
Get a good lawyer, and let them help you determine what you want to do. Don't assume the ex will be amicable or friendly. If you can, shut down any joint bills and bank accounts, and keep good records of what's owed and what's an asset.
Then, do new things. Go to new restaurants, new grocery stores, try new foods, go to new parts of the city you don't usually visit. Do that to create new memories.
posted by answergrape at 7:18 AM on June 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
Document Everything!!!!
posted by pearlybob at 7:20 AM on June 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by pearlybob at 7:20 AM on June 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
Record everything. Get a note book and keep track of all conversations, emails, texts, meetings etc. If things stay civil you will never need it, of things go pear shaped having a record of things they've said, agreed to and done can be very important.
Get your own copies of all important paperwork ASAP. Bank statements etc.
Basically evidence is your friend. You may never need it, and have a civil grown up divorce, bit is usually too late to start getting it by the time you realise you'll need it
posted by wwax at 7:28 AM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
Get your own copies of all important paperwork ASAP. Bank statements etc.
Basically evidence is your friend. You may never need it, and have a civil grown up divorce, bit is usually too late to start getting it by the time you realise you'll need it
posted by wwax at 7:28 AM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
Know what you're getting into. It will be hard enough without unpleasant surprises you might have avoided. Find out about statutory child support and how that is calculated in your state; it is often a mathematical calculation between salary of Parent A, salary of Parent B, and who has primary custody. Find out how custody usually works in your family court. Find out how your family court manages primary vs joint custody. Get ALL the bank records, 401K records, etc for both parties while you can.
Pay for the consult you need to get this information. Plan for the best, prepare for the worst.
posted by DarlingBri at 7:41 AM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
Pay for the consult you need to get this information. Plan for the best, prepare for the worst.
posted by DarlingBri at 7:41 AM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
Be patient / don't rush. There will be an urge to speed things up (time is money! I want this over with! make a decision and stick to it!) but it's better to get everyone on the same page, even if that means a lot of back and forth, before making it official.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 7:50 AM on June 27, 2017
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 7:50 AM on June 27, 2017
When you leave, consider all your personal possessions that you leave behind gone forever, and take everything you wish to keep with you or to your own storage. Even if your ex is nice they might get a new lover who sells or throws out or just keeps your stuff.
posted by meepmeow at 7:50 AM on June 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by meepmeow at 7:50 AM on June 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
* Open your own checking account immediately and put at least $1000 in it. At some point your assets may be frozen but you're still going to need money.
* There's a common consensus that one should never badmouth their ex, and to a large extent that's excellent advice. However, my ex literally lived down the street from us and severed contact with my three kids a few months after the divorce. For years, if my kids asked why their dad didn't want to see them, I gave a variation of we'll never really know and he's really missing out getting to know his wonderful children.
After 10 years of this explanation and when the kids were late teens/young adults, I changed my answer to, "Your father is a f*cking douchebag."
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 7:57 AM on June 27, 2017 [16 favorites]
* There's a common consensus that one should never badmouth their ex, and to a large extent that's excellent advice. However, my ex literally lived down the street from us and severed contact with my three kids a few months after the divorce. For years, if my kids asked why their dad didn't want to see them, I gave a variation of we'll never really know and he's really missing out getting to know his wonderful children.
After 10 years of this explanation and when the kids were late teens/young adults, I changed my answer to, "Your father is a f*cking douchebag."
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 7:57 AM on June 27, 2017 [16 favorites]
Be civil, but don't be nice. You'll want to play nice. Don't. But always be civil and courteous.
Don't expect your ex to be anything more than horrible and hope to be pleasantly surprised.
Absolutely put your kids first, but not at total detriment to yourself.
posted by RhysPenbras at 8:15 AM on June 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
Don't expect your ex to be anything more than horrible and hope to be pleasantly surprised.
Absolutely put your kids first, but not at total detriment to yourself.
posted by RhysPenbras at 8:15 AM on June 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
As a child of divorce, yes, absolutely, put them first. My parents made some boneheaded decisions over the years but I never doubted that I was loved and they did what they thought was best for me.
That said, one of my biggest regrets regarding my parents' divorce is all the time I lost with my grandparents and my dad's side of the family. Absent them being utter douchebags and/or bad for the kids, try not to limit contact with the extended family, especially the grandparents. I never really got to spend time with my paternal grandparents after the divorce and I miss them so damn much even twenty years later.
Nthing everyone who said don't badmouth the other parent. For all my mother's faults that's one thing she never, ever did, and my relationship with the one aunt and uncle who aren't a fan of my dad is... contentious. Like it or not, he's still my dad and I will pick him over my mother's sister any fucking day of the week.
Therapy is a good idea, for yourself and the kids. I finally got the therapy I needed to deal in my mid-twenties and it has made my life so much better.
posted by Tamanna at 8:18 AM on June 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
That said, one of my biggest regrets regarding my parents' divorce is all the time I lost with my grandparents and my dad's side of the family. Absent them being utter douchebags and/or bad for the kids, try not to limit contact with the extended family, especially the grandparents. I never really got to spend time with my paternal grandparents after the divorce and I miss them so damn much even twenty years later.
Nthing everyone who said don't badmouth the other parent. For all my mother's faults that's one thing she never, ever did, and my relationship with the one aunt and uncle who aren't a fan of my dad is... contentious. Like it or not, he's still my dad and I will pick him over my mother's sister any fucking day of the week.
Therapy is a good idea, for yourself and the kids. I finally got the therapy I needed to deal in my mid-twenties and it has made my life so much better.
posted by Tamanna at 8:18 AM on June 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
I was 8 and my brother was 6 when my parents got divorced, so I really remember. (But it was 50 years ago.)
"Don't badmouth" is really important advice. But I would even add "Don't worry if your ex is doing it." Kids are loyal. Hearing the bad stuff makes them cringe, but they really don't stop knowing in their bones that they are half you. On the inside they are thinking "hey, don't say that about my dad."
Communicating only on email can reduce spontaneous fighting AND it creates a 'paper' trail if there is a disagreement or misunderstanding. It tends to be less upsetting. And you can perhaps limit how many times a day you check it.
Be reliable. I'm grateful that my dad was reliable.
posted by puddledork at 9:19 AM on June 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
"Don't badmouth" is really important advice. But I would even add "Don't worry if your ex is doing it." Kids are loyal. Hearing the bad stuff makes them cringe, but they really don't stop knowing in their bones that they are half you. On the inside they are thinking "hey, don't say that about my dad."
Communicating only on email can reduce spontaneous fighting AND it creates a 'paper' trail if there is a disagreement or misunderstanding. It tends to be less upsetting. And you can perhaps limit how many times a day you check it.
Be reliable. I'm grateful that my dad was reliable.
posted by puddledork at 9:19 AM on June 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
Oh, hey. Hugs. Getting a divorce with kids was pretty much the hardest thing I've ever done. And in the midst of all the fear and wishing and second-guessing, all the panic and longing, all the confusion and uncertainty, in the depth of the sheer terror about how none of our lives were never going to be the same again, I guess I wish I could have somehow run into my future self -- the self I am now, seven years later -- in line at the grocery store or at the coffeeshop or something.
And I know now that she would tell me that not only does everything turn out in the end to be mostly okay, so many other things are actually going to be better. A marriage that's ending in divorce really is a bad marriage, and it really is taking a long slow toll on your happiness. Maybe you know that because you're instigating the divorce; maybe you don't know that yet because the divorce wasn't your idea and isn't what you want. But in hindsight, I can see now that although at the time I felt like my divorce was a catastrophe the grip of which I would never fully escape, it really was one of the best things that ever happened to me.
It was, well, it was a gift. The strangest, least expected, most unwanted one I've ever been given, no doubt, but a gift is what it was.
I think knowing this helps you play the long game with your kids, as others have suggested. You and your children will need to start building a relationship together now that it is no longer scaffolded by the marriage. And they'll have to do that, too, with the other parent. Think of it as two new construction sites stocked with some lumber from the marriage. You want to focus on making your new relationship with your children as strong and good as it can possibly be, and you want to make sure that (at the very least) you don't undermine or interfere with the relationship they're now building with the other parent.
I see a lot of people in the throes of a divorce continue to focus on their ex; even when they think they're just complaining about the ex as a coparent or trying to solve a problem around the kids, they're actually still trying to keep the structure of the marriage in some tact by managing the ex's relationship to the children, by insisting that the ex acknowledge, or even share, a vision of how things should be. But that's trying to keep in place the kinds of compromises that define a marriage. So when people say "focus on the kids," I think they're reminding you that the more time you spend focusing on the ex's building site, construction techniques, or design, as it were, the less time you're spending on yours.
Practically speaking, this does mean that you don't badmouth the ex or interfere with visits or do anything that might compromise the kids' work on the other "building site." Just to stay with my allegory here: you don't try to block construction by pursuing every legal action available; you don't try and keep the children from going over to help build; you don't tell them that your ex's design or craftsmanship is shoddy. You recognize that they're collaborating on that site with your ex -- that the work they're doing is important to them. For them. And it also means that sometimes (and there will be times), you have to let your ex pursue designs, techniques, and constructions that you don't like. So long as the children aren't in physical danger, your job is just to keep building good things on your site and to keep showing and giving your kids the tools they'll need to build good things for themselves, too.
posted by pinkacademic at 9:21 AM on June 27, 2017 [9 favorites]
And I know now that she would tell me that not only does everything turn out in the end to be mostly okay, so many other things are actually going to be better. A marriage that's ending in divorce really is a bad marriage, and it really is taking a long slow toll on your happiness. Maybe you know that because you're instigating the divorce; maybe you don't know that yet because the divorce wasn't your idea and isn't what you want. But in hindsight, I can see now that although at the time I felt like my divorce was a catastrophe the grip of which I would never fully escape, it really was one of the best things that ever happened to me.
It was, well, it was a gift. The strangest, least expected, most unwanted one I've ever been given, no doubt, but a gift is what it was.
I think knowing this helps you play the long game with your kids, as others have suggested. You and your children will need to start building a relationship together now that it is no longer scaffolded by the marriage. And they'll have to do that, too, with the other parent. Think of it as two new construction sites stocked with some lumber from the marriage. You want to focus on making your new relationship with your children as strong and good as it can possibly be, and you want to make sure that (at the very least) you don't undermine or interfere with the relationship they're now building with the other parent.
I see a lot of people in the throes of a divorce continue to focus on their ex; even when they think they're just complaining about the ex as a coparent or trying to solve a problem around the kids, they're actually still trying to keep the structure of the marriage in some tact by managing the ex's relationship to the children, by insisting that the ex acknowledge, or even share, a vision of how things should be. But that's trying to keep in place the kinds of compromises that define a marriage. So when people say "focus on the kids," I think they're reminding you that the more time you spend focusing on the ex's building site, construction techniques, or design, as it were, the less time you're spending on yours.
Practically speaking, this does mean that you don't badmouth the ex or interfere with visits or do anything that might compromise the kids' work on the other "building site." Just to stay with my allegory here: you don't try to block construction by pursuing every legal action available; you don't try and keep the children from going over to help build; you don't tell them that your ex's design or craftsmanship is shoddy. You recognize that they're collaborating on that site with your ex -- that the work they're doing is important to them. For them. And it also means that sometimes (and there will be times), you have to let your ex pursue designs, techniques, and constructions that you don't like. So long as the children aren't in physical danger, your job is just to keep building good things on your site and to keep showing and giving your kids the tools they'll need to build good things for themselves, too.
posted by pinkacademic at 9:21 AM on June 27, 2017 [9 favorites]
Isolina Ricci's Mom's House, Dad's House was the best thing I read before and during my divorce. It helped me recognize, understand, and deal with a lot of my fears.
It helped me learn how to ensure that my daughter got what she needed, but also how not to get angry and deal with the ex and the situation in a business-like fashion.
In particular, learning Ricci's concept of "negative intimacy" -- using intimate knowledge you share with your ex-partner as a way to hurt -- was quite eye-opening.
posted by the matching mole at 9:26 AM on June 27, 2017
It helped me learn how to ensure that my daughter got what she needed, but also how not to get angry and deal with the ex and the situation in a business-like fashion.
In particular, learning Ricci's concept of "negative intimacy" -- using intimate knowledge you share with your ex-partner as a way to hurt -- was quite eye-opening.
posted by the matching mole at 9:26 AM on June 27, 2017
Put the kids first
A thousand times, this. They will have different responses to every stage, depending on their ages and personalities. Watch each as the unique soul he or she is. You don't have to take them to Disney World. Just being present is huge. Doing normal stuff together is huge.
Lawyer
We hired lawyers trained in collaborative family law. It was not cheap, but the final bill was a lot less expensive than our state's average. All meetings had everyone at the table and were, really, "work sessions." We still did a lot of homework on our own, but we made enormous progress every time we met. The two lawyers knew and liked each other, had gone to the same training programs, etc. Our first official meeting was in January, the final papers were signed in April. FWIW I phone-interviewed about 5 lawyers before finding one that was the right fit.
Managing the "future ex" relationship
We negotiated a kind of "trial separation" while still living together that gave both of us time alone and time with the kids every week. That really worked wonders. Both of us needed time to ourselves, either in the house or away, to process our thoughts and feelings. And that gave the other some exclusive time with the kids, which was a good step toward moving out. Not possible or ideal in all circumstances, I realize.
Money
It's nearly impossible to legally and ethically sequester money that's "just yours" that won't be subject to division in the final degree. Just have a plan to limit discretionary expenses, because moving out and establishing a new household makes every single dollar count.
Relationships
Do not pursue new romantic or sexual relationships. They will drain your time, money, and energy, during a period when you will need all you can get of all those things. They can also introduce complications into the divorce process, and they'll confuse the hell out of your kids.
On the other hand, do not isolate yourself from people who care about you. It's natural to feel awkward or embarrassed about your situation and to assume others will, too. If someone says you should meet for coffee or go to a ballgame with them and their family, say yes.
Getting help
if you can, find a therapist or counselor. It made a world of difference to me. As with the lawyer, I called a bunch and did phone interviews to find someone I felt comfortable with.
My respect for the legal and mental health professions went up 1000% as a result of this experience. Well-trained professionals can help you process things, shoulder the weight, take the heat, and so on. This is not a time to rely only on what you already know or can do alone.
posted by Caxton1476 at 10:03 AM on June 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
A thousand times, this. They will have different responses to every stage, depending on their ages and personalities. Watch each as the unique soul he or she is. You don't have to take them to Disney World. Just being present is huge. Doing normal stuff together is huge.
Lawyer
We hired lawyers trained in collaborative family law. It was not cheap, but the final bill was a lot less expensive than our state's average. All meetings had everyone at the table and were, really, "work sessions." We still did a lot of homework on our own, but we made enormous progress every time we met. The two lawyers knew and liked each other, had gone to the same training programs, etc. Our first official meeting was in January, the final papers were signed in April. FWIW I phone-interviewed about 5 lawyers before finding one that was the right fit.
Managing the "future ex" relationship
We negotiated a kind of "trial separation" while still living together that gave both of us time alone and time with the kids every week. That really worked wonders. Both of us needed time to ourselves, either in the house or away, to process our thoughts and feelings. And that gave the other some exclusive time with the kids, which was a good step toward moving out. Not possible or ideal in all circumstances, I realize.
Money
It's nearly impossible to legally and ethically sequester money that's "just yours" that won't be subject to division in the final degree. Just have a plan to limit discretionary expenses, because moving out and establishing a new household makes every single dollar count.
Relationships
Do not pursue new romantic or sexual relationships. They will drain your time, money, and energy, during a period when you will need all you can get of all those things. They can also introduce complications into the divorce process, and they'll confuse the hell out of your kids.
On the other hand, do not isolate yourself from people who care about you. It's natural to feel awkward or embarrassed about your situation and to assume others will, too. If someone says you should meet for coffee or go to a ballgame with them and their family, say yes.
Getting help
if you can, find a therapist or counselor. It made a world of difference to me. As with the lawyer, I called a bunch and did phone interviews to find someone I felt comfortable with.
My respect for the legal and mental health professions went up 1000% as a result of this experience. Well-trained professionals can help you process things, shoulder the weight, take the heat, and so on. This is not a time to rely only on what you already know or can do alone.
posted by Caxton1476 at 10:03 AM on June 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
Do not assume your divorce is amicable on anything but the outside, and do not assume your to-be-ex is being truthful. If you must, trust, but verify. Protect yourself and your kids. It's her job to protect herself, and also the kids. You don't have to be *nice.* You should try to be fair, but only in so far as that means you're not exposing yourself to undue risk.
posted by Medieval Maven at 10:14 AM on June 27, 2017
posted by Medieval Maven at 10:14 AM on June 27, 2017
Best advice that, to my regret, I did not heed: no matter how amicable the divorce, never share a lawyer. Seriously, never.
posted by she's not there at 11:34 AM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by she's not there at 11:34 AM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
I should clarify, since you can't actually "share" a lawyer, which she (the lawyer) made clear. My ex and I essentially did everything from dividing assets to writing the childcare arrangements (which the judge praised in court as being exemplary). However, given that he had always handled our finances, I can't say that I really knew what was going on there and I had reason to question our arrangement post-divorce, i.e., too late.
posted by she's not there at 11:41 AM on June 27, 2017
posted by she's not there at 11:41 AM on June 27, 2017
Don't try to control your ex's narrative, even if she is choosing an untrue, toxic narrative for why the relationship ended. Your ex may need to tell herself something that isn't true to emotionally get through this/feel like the hero/feel like the victim - it is not your job to course-correct her version of events or how she feels about them. It's hard, as she may tell this version to the kids. But how she feels about how things went down may not match your version, or have any bearing on reality - and you have to let that be. That was the hardest part for me - as it represented the splitting of our shared narrative.
posted by egeanin at 12:13 PM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by egeanin at 12:13 PM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
Document everything = what's in the bank account(s), investment account(s), retirement account(s). Credit card account, loans, anything you can think of. Did your parents 'loan' you money for the house. Make note of it. When are bills coming due, like annual homeowner's insurance. Do you have a significant deposit somewhere? What are the values of cars, and loan balances? Make copies of the taxes for all the years you were married, or at least the last 5 years; you should each have a copy. Addresses & phone numbers of families. If 1 person has secretly been preparing, sometimes they will try to hide assets.
Try to be fair.
I disagree about a shark. A friend's ex- had a shark who ended up churning through an extreme amount of bullshit at high hourly rates. They spent more on lawyers than I make in a year, and they aren't wealthy. You want a lawyer who is on your side, smart, efficient, No BS. We had a mediated divorce; I met separately with a lawyer to review a few things. That actually worked well for us.
No matter what you think, the kids are affected, they're probably scared, they want you back together, etc. Their needs come 1st. Do not badmouth, analyze, or whine about the other parent. Establish a means of communication, probably email, that will allow you to plan and negotiate outside the hearing of your kids.
- You want your child to be the sort of person who respects both of their parents. Show them.
- You want your child to have diverse opportunities. Let them go camping or on that trip even if you lose a weekend.
Build your own new life. Not always easy, but you deserve it.
posted by theora55 at 12:33 PM on June 27, 2017
Try to be fair.
I disagree about a shark. A friend's ex- had a shark who ended up churning through an extreme amount of bullshit at high hourly rates. They spent more on lawyers than I make in a year, and they aren't wealthy. You want a lawyer who is on your side, smart, efficient, No BS. We had a mediated divorce; I met separately with a lawyer to review a few things. That actually worked well for us.
No matter what you think, the kids are affected, they're probably scared, they want you back together, etc. Their needs come 1st. Do not badmouth, analyze, or whine about the other parent. Establish a means of communication, probably email, that will allow you to plan and negotiate outside the hearing of your kids.
- You want your child to be the sort of person who respects both of their parents. Show them.
- You want your child to have diverse opportunities. Let them go camping or on that trip even if you lose a weekend.
Build your own new life. Not always easy, but you deserve it.
posted by theora55 at 12:33 PM on June 27, 2017
Get a good lawyer. Do not assume the system will be your friend if you do not have good legal counsel. If it means you spend a ton of money on a good lawyer, so be it. I have seen divorces where one party had the good lawyer and the other party did not and believe me, the results are not pretty.
Nnthing put the kids first. Please, please, please try and work with your ex so that the kids have both parents in their lives - at least somewhat. At least in an honest way, if the other partner is abusive or something like that and it is not safe for the kids to be around him/her. Nothing is uglier and more sad than one parent using the children to get back at the other parent, restructuring the kids' memories so that they have no true idea of who the other parent really is/was. A revenge attitude might satisfy the injured party's feelings, but long-term, it doesn't do the kids a bit of good.
posted by Crystal Fox at 1:19 PM on June 27, 2017
Nnthing put the kids first. Please, please, please try and work with your ex so that the kids have both parents in their lives - at least somewhat. At least in an honest way, if the other partner is abusive or something like that and it is not safe for the kids to be around him/her. Nothing is uglier and more sad than one parent using the children to get back at the other parent, restructuring the kids' memories so that they have no true idea of who the other parent really is/was. A revenge attitude might satisfy the injured party's feelings, but long-term, it doesn't do the kids a bit of good.
posted by Crystal Fox at 1:19 PM on June 27, 2017
I was very young when I was given this advice: "Don't ever sleep with him again!" ~ I didn't see it ever being a possibility at the time, nor was I in any way interested in continuing the relationship, but I was shocked to find that my estranged and creepy stalking husband would even try to consider getting me back when it was so obviously a mismatch. But he did try, using sugar-coated words that were hiding deep resentment and hatred - and her words came back to me in a moment of empathy towards him. I realized that I did not have to make him feel better by sleeping with him. I was putting myself at risk if I did so. It would have taken so much of my self respect to lay with him after realizing how much he repulsed me... but I might have, if she hadn't so oddly said that to me. Not just that I might have lost my self respect, I could have lost my life. He so deeply scared me at one point, that for years after I left my home town, I was always looking over my shoulder.
posted by itsflyable at 1:44 PM on June 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by itsflyable at 1:44 PM on June 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
I think people have the practical advice covered, so I'll say that my support network was absolutely key to my emotional recovery. See if you can make some standing dates with friends. Brunch with Bob on Sundays, poker at Pete's house on Wednesdays, gym with Gary on Friday, etc.
Keep busy, give yourself time to grieve but don't shuffle around in your pajamas all day.
posted by AFABulous at 3:18 PM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
Keep busy, give yourself time to grieve but don't shuffle around in your pajamas all day.
posted by AFABulous at 3:18 PM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
Get free consultations with a few lawyers. Ask them to lay out what their strategy would be. If you don't feel like you are finding good a good fit, keep interviewing until you do.
A friend of mine is currently involved in a very messy divorce. Out of panic she jumped into a (professional) relationship with a lawyer that in my opinion is not representing her well, but she's bought into the sunk cost fallacy and is throwing good money after bad. I won't be surprised if after its all said and done she ends up bankrupt. It's so bad that she's hired some sort of court advocate (a paralegal with lots of experience in divorce cases) to interpret advice from her lawyer and to offer further advice. So... choose your lawyer carefully, and well.
Along those lines, every dollar that your ex- spends is food taken out of your children's mouths and clothes taken off of your children's backs, so, gently, and without pushing any boundaries, make sure your ex- chooses well too.
If your ex- wants to keep some material possession, just let her keep it. I speak from experience when I say that it sucks to live surrounded by things that give you bad memories. If you get pissed off remembering the fight you had over who gets to keep the tv every time you turn the damned thing on, that's super bad for your mental health and for your ability to move forward with your life. Just let her keep it.
posted by vignettist at 3:28 PM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
A friend of mine is currently involved in a very messy divorce. Out of panic she jumped into a (professional) relationship with a lawyer that in my opinion is not representing her well, but she's bought into the sunk cost fallacy and is throwing good money after bad. I won't be surprised if after its all said and done she ends up bankrupt. It's so bad that she's hired some sort of court advocate (a paralegal with lots of experience in divorce cases) to interpret advice from her lawyer and to offer further advice. So... choose your lawyer carefully, and well.
Along those lines, every dollar that your ex- spends is food taken out of your children's mouths and clothes taken off of your children's backs, so, gently, and without pushing any boundaries, make sure your ex- chooses well too.
If your ex- wants to keep some material possession, just let her keep it. I speak from experience when I say that it sucks to live surrounded by things that give you bad memories. If you get pissed off remembering the fight you had over who gets to keep the tv every time you turn the damned thing on, that's super bad for your mental health and for your ability to move forward with your life. Just let her keep it.
posted by vignettist at 3:28 PM on June 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
My divorce is *almost* final - we have already finished everything and are just waiting to sign the paperwork.
I am 40 and have five kids. Here is what I have learned in the past 18 months (since my wife moved out):
1. Your spouse is no longer your friend, as mentioned above. You don't have to be enemies, but if they hire a lawyer they WILL be advised to get whatever they can from you and your feelings will be dismissed.
2. Things will get better. My divorce was a surprise and she is now with my former best friend, and it destroyed my world for 9 or 10 months. But time heals all wounds, as they say, and I am in a much better place now.
3. Alcohol and/or drugs will screw things up. They make you feel better temporarily, but I strongly discourage you from relying on them.
4. The kids. Do what is best for them, not what makes you feel best. They will figure out, in due time, why the marriage failed. You don't want them to have bad memories on your side of things.
5. Even when you are alone (I live 2,000 miles from my relatives and am effectively alone now) there are still plenty of people who care about you. My Facebook friends became my lifeline, and they donated a lot of money to help me make it through this. Even people I haven't seen in 25 years sent me donations. Rely on whoever you've got.
posted by tacodave at 4:31 PM on June 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
I am 40 and have five kids. Here is what I have learned in the past 18 months (since my wife moved out):
1. Your spouse is no longer your friend, as mentioned above. You don't have to be enemies, but if they hire a lawyer they WILL be advised to get whatever they can from you and your feelings will be dismissed.
2. Things will get better. My divorce was a surprise and she is now with my former best friend, and it destroyed my world for 9 or 10 months. But time heals all wounds, as they say, and I am in a much better place now.
3. Alcohol and/or drugs will screw things up. They make you feel better temporarily, but I strongly discourage you from relying on them.
4. The kids. Do what is best for them, not what makes you feel best. They will figure out, in due time, why the marriage failed. You don't want them to have bad memories on your side of things.
5. Even when you are alone (I live 2,000 miles from my relatives and am effectively alone now) there are still plenty of people who care about you. My Facebook friends became my lifeline, and they donated a lot of money to help me make it through this. Even people I haven't seen in 25 years sent me donations. Rely on whoever you've got.
posted by tacodave at 4:31 PM on June 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
TLDNR- Coming from a broken home myself, my mother was constantly dogging my father...but he never said anything bad about my mom. When I divorced, I was adamant that the boys (then 2 and 8-now 9 and 15) never hear anyone, including me, say anything negative about their father or step mother. Just remember, absolutely NEVER EVER EVER NEVER, under any circumstances, say anything bad about your soon to be ex in earshot of your children. When they hear things that are adult problems, and daddy is calling mommy a bitch to someone...it tells the children that half of them is bad in someway.
posted by Amalie-Suzette at 7:42 PM on June 27, 2017
posted by Amalie-Suzette at 7:42 PM on June 27, 2017
If your ex is a trainwreck for your kids, discuss parallel parenting with your therapist early on. The idea of cooperative cordial frosty exes parenting with the best interests of the children is heavily promoted as the best model but only works if both parents do have the children's best interests. When one parent doesn't care deeply about the kids or has serious issues, parallel parenting is a much saner way for both you and the children to live with two households. The no bad mouthing still applies, but can be more complex with an uninvolved or difficult parent for the kids to process. Art and play therapists are awesome for younger kids. Remember though that life goes on for your kids and your divorce may not be as big as school/heartbreak/friendship woes etc. Pay attention to their regular lives too.
Document everything. Send emails after calls or conversations to recap what was discussed and agreed.
I found it helpful to completely social media block my ex. A trusted friend keeps an eye out for anything gross I need to know about, otherwise I can't go through posts at 4am. Ditto anyone involved with them.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 11:08 AM on June 28, 2017
Document everything. Send emails after calls or conversations to recap what was discussed and agreed.
I found it helpful to completely social media block my ex. A trusted friend keeps an eye out for anything gross I need to know about, otherwise I can't go through posts at 4am. Ditto anyone involved with them.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 11:08 AM on June 28, 2017
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posted by cooker girl at 6:22 AM on June 27, 2017 [13 favorites]