Cars which permit rear facing back seats

May 27, 2017 1:18 PM

I am looking for other cars where you can remove the back seats and reinstall in the opposite direction hat they face backwards. This is for the safety of our children (rear facing baby seats are now widely accepted but it is actually better for older kids to continue facing backwards in booster seats as long as possible). We have a Renault Grand Espace which permits us to do this but we are looking to change for a new model. This is a question for which it is surprisingly hard to find answers via Google and I was hoping that you guys had ideas. Thanks!
posted by BigBrownBear to Travel & Transportation (11 answers total)

Best answer: I work for a US company that compiles data on cars (among other things), and if you were in the North American market I might be able to provide you with better answers. Unfortunately you're apparently in the European market, which we don't cover.

I can say broadly that the type of feature you're looking for doesn't really exist, or at least is uncommon enough that it's not on our radar. I'm not sure if the Renault you have is a completely unique unicorn, but a reversible seating system is not mentioned at all in the various manuals we have for north american vehicles from the past couple of model years.

I would suspect that if any vehicle would allow for reversing its second row seating, it would be in those with independent removable second row seats. An industry term for independent second row seats is "captain's chair" which may help with your googling.

Here's a list of all North American vehicles with removable 2nd row seats from the 2017/2016 model years, according to our records -- about half are minivans and most of the others are vans:

Chevrolet Express 17-16
Chrysler Pacifica 17 Plug-In Hybrid
Chrysler Town and Country 16
Freightliner Sprinter 17-16
GMC Savana 17-16
Honda Odyssey 17-16
Jeep Wrangler 17-16
Mercedes-Benz Metris 17-16
Mercedes-Benz Sprinter 17-16
Nissan NV3500 17-16
Toyota Sienna 17-16

I took a peek at the child restraint sections of a couple of manuals, they all talk and are illustrated in terms of forward-facing booster seats and rear-facing infant child seats. I think the typical recommendation in the US (AAP) is rear-facing child seats until the around age of 2, or when the child exceeds the height/weight limits for their seat. After that it's forward-facing seats with a harness or a booster plus belt. Given this "best practice" the industry is incentivized to design toward it, and inventing a reversible second row seating mechanism is probably a significant cost with very little upside in terms of additional vehicle sales, so it makes a certain amount of sense that it's rare.
posted by axiom at 2:04 PM on May 27, 2017 [8 favorites]

The Tesla S has optional rear-facing jump seats (third-row, not reversable second-row).
posted by beagle at 2:31 PM on May 27, 2017

Mercedes wagon has wayback, rear facing third row.
posted by fixedgear at 3:40 PM on May 27, 2017

rear facing baby seats are now widely accepted but it is actually better for older kids to continue facing backwards in booster seats as long as possible

Out of interest, what are you basing that conclusion on? Because that contradicts all the information I had for non-infant car seats.
posted by Brockles at 4:44 PM on May 27, 2017 [4 favorites]

@Brockles: it's now actually common knowledge among car seat safety junkies (self included) that rear facing is safest for all occupants. On article with links is here.
posted by pecanpies at 5:51 PM on May 27, 2017 [2 favorites]

I think Brockles was asking if it's commonly accepted that rear-facing booster seats are safer. I question that premise too as the angle of the seat is important. In the OP's shoes, I'd look for the highest weight/height rated rear facing convertible car seat. I know that there are a couple brands that allow for rear facing up to about 4 years old.
posted by PorcineWithMe at 8:24 PM on May 27, 2017 [2 favorites]

I have a 2008 Town and Country where the second row can be turned to rear facing and it specifically says that kids in car seats can only be in the second row if the van seats are forward facing. Maybe that's changed since 2008 but a quick google search seems to be saying it hasn't.
posted by artychoke at 10:06 PM on May 27, 2017 [2 favorites]

Response by poster: thanks. my wife is a car seat safety junkie as well and has come to the conclusion that backward facing is by far the safest at any age as seconded by pecanpies.
posted by BigBrownBear at 1:44 PM on May 28, 2017

Surely that research is saying that rear-facing car seats are safer than forward-facing car seats, not that children should sit in standard seats facing backwards? I'm pretty sure high injury/fatality rates in rear-end collisions with seats facing the rear are one of the reasons rear-facing seats (and the beloved station wagons that had them) have disappeared from usage.
posted by Mchelly at 1:54 PM on May 28, 2017

Surely that research is saying that rear-facing car seats are safer than forward-facing car seats, not that children should sit in standard seats facing backwards?

Agreed. I did a good deal of poking around last night and I can find significant support for rear facing *car seats* being better than forward facing ones, and agree with that (re forming bones, better cradled support for younger kids etc). I also found, and agree with, the idea of keeping kids in actual (rear facing) car seats as long as they comfortably fit in them and the harnesses track across the body correctly - not just stop using them as soon as they are 'old enough'. It's about suitability in size, more than age. But I can find zero credible research or evidence supporting booster seats in rear facing vehicle seats in cars, nor would a rear facing booster seat option make any sense to me, based on my knowledge of vehicle crash safety and seat belt design.

As soon as the child is physically big enough to be using the standard, factory seat belt directly on them (rather than onto a seat that has a separate harness onto the child) it makes most sense for them to be using the car's seat belts as designed - ie facing the direction of travel. The booster seat just allows their neck/shoulder to be high enough that the belt doesn't hurt them if they are being restrained.

Mods - please don't delete these comments as a derail again. If any topic warrants an extended questioning of the premise of the question, kids crash safety would probably be pretty high on that list, wouldn't it?
posted by Brockles at 2:38 PM on May 28, 2017 [3 favorites]

Response by poster: All I can say is that in Europe there is an increasing trend for everyone to be facing backwards as long as possible. The kids are not in booster seats but in Level 1 or 2 child seat attached by Isofix but using the car seat belts. In the case of impact in the front (where greatest force which is primarily direction of movement) by sitting backwards there is less force on neck on crash. This is the reason why there has basically been universal shift to rear-facing baby seats. However, the same principle applies to everyone and I expect to see a shift on this for children up to the age of 12-14 in the future.

I am not the main person to argue this point but I can tell you that over here there is a huge trend among all the car safety nuts to find rear facing seats for everyone. As with most of these things seems to have been coming originally out of Sweden.
posted by BigBrownBear at 10:22 PM on May 28, 2017